San Angelo City Council January 8, 2013 Part 1

[0:00:11] thank you we are still preparing some technology up here and getting ready but it's it's very close to time to start the meeting and we have a little trailer here this morning of our San Angelo video and so Mr Wilson if you'd like he's a public information officer and kick that off and then we'll continue to get ready up here thank you thank you mayor and City Council Members this is the world premiere I guess you could say of a video that has been in the works at least in Brian groves's mind for a very long time and so it really gave a lot of credit to him for for spearheading this this is something he has wanted to do and uh with a little push from councilman Alexander we drafted a script and got a lot of participation from some of our partners within the community and and the Chamber of Commerce has enthusiastically endorsed this we hope that you like it too but if you have some suggestions for us please let us know and with uh without any further Ado we'll we'll get this started transformation this was a part of the council meeting I don't know I'll be adjourned if we opened up no okay I may need to get Brian up here because this is not restarting the way we had hoped it would be awesome you guys seem to be okay yeah the convergence of three rivers and the vastness of the western Prairie of Texas

[0:02:14] marks a place nature itself set aside as a beacon unto the frontier San Angelo Rose here in 1867 beside the U.S Calvary Outpost Fort Concho the soldiers stationed here served as a long arm of the law for the vast Texas Plains more than 145 years later San Angelo reaches into the future Frontiers encompassing the state the nation even the globe today San Angelo is setting standards and Fields such as education the Arts quality living and as it was in the beginning defense Goodfellow Air Force Base trains more than 11 000 students a year from all four military branches in the missions of firefighting intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance the communities of resolute support of our base and welcoming attitude towards the Personnel station there has swayed the nation's political and military leaders to continue to fund Goodfellows grow even as other installations were downsized are shuttered Angelo State University has earned recognition for offering the top quality but affordable University experience with streams and teacher education agriculture nursing physics biology and security studies in 2007 Angelo state joined the Texas Tech University system enrollment has since steadily marched to a goal of 10 000 students on the fields of play the ASU Rams and rambows compete at Championship levels in baseball softball volleyball Track and Field San Angelo still serves as a regional hub for Commerce in all forms banking energy

[0:04:18] agriculture Health Care retail and entertainment the city maintains a healthy manufacturing presence in Industries such as medical products and metal fabrication the San Angelo Stock Show and Rodeo is our community's signature event the wild west spectacle offers one of the five most lucrative applies purses on professional Rodeo Tour at the same time the San Angelo Stock Show features thousands of exhibitors from virtually every one of the 254 counties in Texas competing in more than 40 events from the first indigenous people here whose Legacy can be viewed still on paved rocks to the modern day artists have always been able to find them use here the Arts are a thriving local passion the distinctively shaped San Angelo Museum of Fine Arts continually showcases a fascinating array of eye-catching exhibits the Art Museum's Elegance has perfectly complemented by the old chicken farm Art Center a commune of Artisans who create in quaint Studios on the grounds of you guessed it an old chicken farm San Angelo also Embraces a renowned symphonic orchestra and ballet company several Youth Theater troops and the state's oldest Community Theater the recent renovation of our historic City Hall is enhancing the ongoing revitalization of our Historic downtown that once again pulses with Brio not to mention shopping there is a sunsets downtown visitors can find live music raging from The Bluest rhythms to the most raucous Rock in one of the Central Business districts many knife spots water remains a magnetic attraction like matters were these constant level Lewis boaters

[0:06:22] wakeboarders Anglers and campers from across West Texas massworthy is also one of the most popular stops on the Lucas Oil drag boat racing series contrast to speed boats skimming across water at more than 250 miles per hour the Tranquil International Waterloo collection is a one-of-a-kind assortment of rare and beautiful water lilies it's also the birthplace of the Texas Dawn the official water lily of the State of Texas along the Concho River millions of dollars are being invested to transform San Angelo's River wall into a must-be destination for those who favor Scenic vistos public hard work exercise and Leisure foot Concho still stands watch today a National Historic Landmark the fort is a City's top tourist attraction is 40 acres boasts 23 restored structures and a lively history program populated by Buffalo Soldiers Calvary infantry and a colorful cast of Gunslingers brothel girls and lawmen the annual Christmas at Old Fort Concho celebration has become a holiday staple and also as it was in 1867 the concho's General flow remains a steadfast symbol for what San Angelo has always been and is today an oasis a fertile Haven that's a perfect place to work to play to call home you guys may have recognized the voice of San Angelo Stadium Sunny clear narrating that for us and we really appreciate his working with us on that and with that again we're hoping to use this to help promote our community along

[0:08:25] with our partners the chamber the CVB The Economic Development Corporation so if you have any suggestions uh regarding the video please feel free to email those to me appreciate it thank you do you see her do you see her I don't see her hmm do you want to take the prayer today Morrison yeah I took it last time I let you okay good morning let me call the meeting to order and we will start the meeting with prayer and pledge but we're a little I guess the beginning of the New Year we're a little uh out of out of sync to start off we don't have anyone helping with the pledge and we don't have anyone helping with the prayer uh folks not being here so Mr Morrison how about starting us off with a prayer and then I'll start us on the pledges Okay so thank you let us pray a davidly father we thank you so very much for all the many wonderful things that you have done for us we thank you for the opportunities we thank you for this another beautiful day and we thank you for the rain that we are enjoying we thank you for the rain that you have sent father but as always we plea for more to fill our Lakes our streams and our reservoirs so that the balance of nature might once again be returned to this beautiful area we thank you for our city father we thank you for all of the people that make it up we thank you for the diversity that we have and we are very thankful to you for all the many wonderful things you had done I would ask that you be with us today as a city council to give us the wisdom that we need to make the decisions that are right to give us the patience to listen to the people that come before us and give us the courage to make the decisions as they need to be made what ask that you be with us that you love us you forgive us and you be with us this we ask in the name of Jesus amen amen

[0:10:35] thank you thank the pleasures myself sir okay the United States one nation under God indivisible with every teacher foreign we're waiting for your leadership we have one special recognition this morning and so I'd like to be joined by Mr Anderson there you go I didn't know if it was going to be if there was more than one or not this morning how are you sir we have a special recognition this morning honoring Mr Anderson and his business and so whereas during the 16th annual Texas Workforce conference employer recognition luncheon held at the Gaylord Texan November 29 2012 the Texas Workforce Commission named Western Towers an employer of Excellence and whereas Western Towers partnered with Workforce Solutions for the Concho Valley for the staffing and developing its new Harriet manufacturing facility and the new plant helped Western Towers become the premier positive train control tower manufacturer supplying Towers to most American and all Canadian railroads and whereas honoring its commitment to our country's veterans Western Towers raised the percentage of Veteran employment to 20 percent and

[0:12:38] additional disabled veterans may be hired during future expansion and whereas Western Tower's new plant is equipped with a state-of-the-art rainwater recovery system which operates the entire plant from normal rainfall and whereas Western Towers implemented a productivity bonus system in the new facility which has resulted in phenomenal fabrication production placing it on Pace to greatly increase its annual payroll over the next three years now therefore it is with great pleasure that I of a new mayor of the city of San Angelo on behalf of the city council do hereby recognize and applaud Western towers for their tireless commitment to Excellence in business and supporting Community throughout the city of San Angelo congratulations thank you thank you very much Charles if you want I do think the city for this recognition of our company and all the people that made it possible and really appreciate our city my family first came here in 18 I guess 1867. and we've tried to help San Angelo grow and thank you all very much foreign next item is public comment the council takes public comment on all items in the regular agenda public input on a regular agenda item will be taken at its

[0:14:41] appropriate discussion public input on an item not on the agenda or consent agenda may be identified and requested for consideration by the council at this time just an item to be placed on a future agenda or for a consent agenda item to be moved to the regular agenda for public comment number three okay so I have a desire to move item number three and then I have a desire to table I believe it's item number 15. using is that correct yes sir that's great okay I'd like the table item number 15 and and and go ahead and bring it up at the next Council agenda at the next meeting that uh having spoken with the players there and and with staff uh Mr Elga Thabo is not available today and uh is the director at the airport and would be the one answering any questions and so without him here it seems like the right thing to do is to let that wait and and covered at the next meeting okay okay I'd love to make a motion to approve the consent agenda uh the conception of item number three and also make a motion table item number 15 to uh or a later meeting second okay I have a motion in a second and call for that vote then all those in favor please say aye aye aye any opposed okay at this time I'd like to open up for public comment and comments from anyone on Council and then comments from the public so does anyone have anything any Public public comments not related to the agenda this morning please come on up foreign first of all I want to thank you and uh isn't it great that we live in a country where we can meet with our leaders and explain our wishes sometimes to the community as to our abilities to help and Aid the city

[0:16:47] first of all I'd like to note that I'm a property owner keep going with it please go ahead and establish your name for the record okay my name is Bill Murray own property in front of the Coliseum approximately I guess three quarters or better of the block just south of the Coliseum and uh I have noticed in the last six months after 1979 meeting with the city that this was zoned supposedly by our plat to be commercial when I went before the permit office I found out that there's a small corner of my property that is residential and to the right of that of course I own both sides they told me there was a master plan that keeps the zoning as such and I'd like to meet with the city commission and tell me why I'm paying commercial rates and taxes when I've got uh about 75 feet of my property I can't use legally but I've been doing it for 30 some odd years I have to admit but now I bought a 4.9 acre track right behind me which gives me the ability to I think speak out that I would like to have that master plan with your consent to give me that other just to my boundary in one one swipe either commercial or residential and I've been using it for 30 or 30 something years as commercial paying that rate so I'd like to meet with y'all and get your minds together and show you is is terrible I'm I'm processing

[0:18:51] the land behind that the five acres now I'm I'm redoing a home that needed to be reconstructed in North Angelo is a blessing to to do that because it's an improvement but I want that zone looked at with your permission and Grace just to tell me why it's that way it can't be changed I don't understand that when I own I own all of it there's no one behind me in front of me or beside me other than Coliseum Drive and four houses in the line what makes a difference within 300 feet going this way is all commercial and then they take next 50 feet over 75 feet and it's residential I'd like to address that in future and also underground burial pipeline gas under that that the city does not even have recorded foreign thank you very much for speaking to us Mr Murray Mr Murray just for my information which part of that property is the residential is it on 43rd or is it on chadburn it's 42nd 42nd okay it's the corner there uh not the corner it if you take a plat and you take a pie shape take the North End the seven uh about 17 feet and then over about 28 feet at the very offset that is residential but then I have three other lots that are spaced there that was zoned in 1979 as special manufactured housing lots that are

[0:20:55] permanent I want to remind you that permanent so I own all of it it's just just a small portion of that now I bought the W.J Jennings Property which is five acres in there on the same city block and that little Half Moon that goes around like so is also residential so it in the property line is like a big Z and the Coliseum sits right in front of it okay it's a no-brainer but I really would like I see that corrected now I brought it to your attention I brought it to your attention several times and uh anyway I appreciate y'all don't get me wrong I just want I'd like to have that corrected thanks very much uh Mr Morrison I'm aware now just now that he has spoken with some folks so probably the best way to move forward is for you and Mr Valenzuela to get your heads together and kind of decide where to go next okay you know we had this same problem at Western Towers we had a property that was all one and then one little old bitty section was something else and we had to change that so it it just is this the procedure we're gonna have to go through but we can fix it anyway I'll work on it sir okay let's start is there any other public comment okay outstanding let's start with item number three off the consent agenda and uh and start the regular session this is consideration of authorizing the city manager to execute a change order of up to four hundred thousand dollars uh concerning Archer Western Construction and it's related to the Hickory booster Pump Station and so I think looking for explanation Mr Dixon good morning Council city manager the

[0:23:00] change order for your consideration this morning is for the possibility of doing some Advanced brush clearing in preparation for the expansion of the new wells on the Hickory right now we're we're working with the Texas water development board to try to get this accomplished as you may or may not know we have a restriction out there on that property dealing with the black cap vario and they're mating and nesting season which runs from March 15 to September the 15th in this change order could possibly allow us to go ahead and do the brush clearing necessary for the expansion of the new wellfield before we get to that March 15th time frame when we get to that from March 15 to September 15th there's it's it's not going to happen if we wait for um the regular approval process from the Texas water development board that's going to take we estimate 60 days and that'll put us into that time frame anyway so basically what we're trying to do is just use this option if we can get all the necessary approvals beforehand to try to get this done we also have the problems out there that we're not sure of yet and all of these things there's there's just lots of things consider when we're talking about this and that's why we want this option if we can make it work we're not real sure yet if we did all the necessary monitoring that we can even drill Wells during this March 15th to September 15th time frame so that's another issue that we're we're trying to work out if we do the necessary noise monitoring and there's no active Nest Disturbed during this time frame than this possibility that they will let us drill during this time frame another issue that we're trying to resolve is the Ford Ranch itself where

[0:25:04] these Wells are located has restrictions during hunting season that's usually typically November December time frame so we've got all these things that's working against us out here on this well field and we're trying to get all these things worked into if we don't get the brush cleared now we have to wait till September the 15th to do it they're looking at a month and a half to two months to get this done so you know everything's running pretty tight if we have to wait till September that gets us into the the hunting season it's it's so anyway that's all this is about I wanted y'all to consider it to let us do this we can get everything done to get this brush clearing done we've got about a little over seven miles of area to clear grub and grind prior to getting the whale strip okay let's let me let's let's establish a little ground rule of the day okay we're reaching the point where we're speaking over each other consistently and so I'm I'm uh I'm not going to acknowledge you if you start speaking and I'm going to cut you off uh if you don't look at me and get my attention first so we're just not going to do that today okay so could you get your attention first I had a boy have at it Mr Adams okay um Ricky you answered the question that I had in reference to the to the time constraints when I was looking through the material I noticed that it said uh that um the Texas water development board may not fund this this uh this project and then so my question was does that mean that there's a possibility that they will but I think you addressed that pretty good there there is a possibility that we could get reimbursement after the fact okay but if they'll allow us to do this without their complete review process we're going to have to fund it initially and it may be that they do not reimburse us so that needs to be considered so we got a 50 50 chance that's that's the case okay and I understand that the uh the

[0:27:10] change order is for additional work necessary for uh the field expansion um again which leads me to my next Point why wasn't it an original contract did for was it it was it as I recall it was mentioned at the time by Mr Wilder when they presented it that there may need to be a change order that the brush removal could not be funded in advance by the project uh the city would have to pay for it and then be reimbursed it was talked about in advance I think we need to clarify that it's that let's first clarify the the water development board money is not free money it's a loan that's correct that's all it is that's correct it's it's simply a low interest loan so we're going to pay the money anyway okay so I kind of lay in that groundwork out anyway so it's a question of whether we're going to pay for it out of our checkbook today or whether we're going to pay for it in the long run over a note correct correct okay all right get that that clarified um so to me it did it provided it's not 10 million dollars it's simply a cash flow issue is a question okay the second thing I've got to say is to me in my eyes because I've been keeping a very close eye Mr Herschel just a second what you're doing first is answering his question I want to make sure he's through internal technology sure I'm good all right Mr hirschfield okay um the the second part is I've been monitoring and watching this project very closely um and this well-filled expansion I mean that was this is not necessarily this was not part of the original Hickory well-filled drilling this is part of the well-filled expansion that we approved in July I believe I believe it was in July so

[0:29:14] this is part of the normal course of business typically I would say that you would come to us and say we've sent it out for a bid it's going to be 2.5 million dollars to drill all these Wells and I hope it's 2.5 yeah good luck it had to do the clearing and to do the this and this and it'll have an entire scope uh on the scope of this project this is this is absolutely vital this is vital to us for our long-term water that this happened sooner rather than later and provided again it's not a cash flow horrible burden on us I am highly supportive of us doing this and and the estimation on drilling these these five new proposed Wells is somewhere around a 20-month time frame correct so any delays is just going to push that out further and further and further and further Mr Valenzuela uh yes I also want to point out of course the original was for six million gallons a day and really what we want to do is get us up to the 9 million gallons a day there's an additional wells in the future of course will serve not just uh for the additional water that'll be coming in but also as a redundancy system on the initial six million if there's an issue there so it's getting started now it's vital to us I definitely do agree with that and hopefully we can move forward with this Mr hersfield is out of motion motion to approve second I think I heard Mr Adams still have a motion to approve from Mr hersfield II from Mr Adams if I have further Council input on this I have a question Mr Silva Ricky you when you talk about the you're not sure whether you can drill do any drilling are you talking about the proposed the new wells the other Wells are drilled this is for the expansion of the whale but you don't know whether you can drill on in these yet is it that's correct and why why is that timing being the main question right and the restrictions dealing with the black

[0:31:16] cap vario area if the necessary steps are taken they have been successful in the past in doing this but I can't stand here today and say yeah it's a done deal I can't guarantee that we've still got to get everybody's approval but one day we would drill these yes it's just a matter and the problem you get into Johnny you're not going to find a drilling company this wants to come in for two months and punch a hole and okay we can't work for six months and then just let that rig sit there the costs are going to be astronomical so that's that's the situation we're facing that's not Mr Alexander so and just layman's terms repeat to me we can clear this land is that something we can do that we can pay for this on our own and clear this land before March 15th yet yes for sure not maybe probably okay that's as far as I'm going and then I'm going to reiterate what uh Kendall said this this is vital and then I'm going to say what this means to the people if if our Lakes run out of water and we don't have water we can rely on the Hickory right now it will only Supply 71 of our indoor needs and so if we delay this there's this window when we have to use less water just indoors let alone the plants outdoors and so this increase will help us all our indoor use for four or five years like five years plus a little outdoor use so that's a big difference uh quality a lot big giant difference and so um I mean we're getting very close here if we don't get a lot of rain or we cut it very close if you delay it then we have this window that's a problem right okay Mr Morrison assure me that this Hickory water is going to sustain 9 million gallons a day pumping because if we start pumping this aquifer that it's a very slow recharge and this aquifer drops they're going to cut us off so assure me that if we punch these

[0:33:19] additional holes and we pull this additional water there's enough water for us to pull I don't know that I can assure you that Dwayne I mean that's what we're that's what everybody says but I'm not going to stand here and say yeah it's I guarantee it that's what concerns me because San Saba County and Mason County and McCulloch County Concho County all pull out of this exact same aquifer with the with the amount of water that we have banked there now if we get into a 9 million a gallon a day draw for this we won't be pulling it very long anyway because we're going to run out of banked water it five years five years that's a long time to me it's a long time okay so I'm gonna going to weigh in on some of the knowledge then on this to Mr Dixon the hydrogeologists all say that there's some 40 or 50 years worth of water with the planned projected use by San Angelo and all of the other users that are that are tied into that uh aquifer so I'll start with that the second thing I'm going to say is what you said is absolutely correct the only way that we want to start using this water in the additional Wells before the year 2024 is because we have to have it on the other hand it does build in redundancy if something happens to the processes with the first six million gallons the wells that currently exist putting these wells in place would allow us to go ahead and keep pumping water to the Six Million gallon level because there's something wrong with the original well or the booster station or something that model this might allow us to carry on during that time frame and it could allow us during an absolute emergency to use water now that we actually don't want to use until the year 2024 that's basically the four

[0:35:22] years that Mr Alexander is talking about so so I you know I think that there there's no reason based on what hydrogeologists who are the guys that are paid to do this stuff say and have guided us and everyone else in the area to believe there's 40 or 50 years worth of water with the plan that's in place so I see no reason why we wouldn't do this I do think as Mr Alexander said and as Mr hirschfeld said if we don't go and as you have instructed if we don't go get that brush cleared given that you and you said it Mr Dixon given that you get necessary approvals what you're doing today is lining up the money that's correct and then then you got to keep lining things up and if all that comes together you're going to go get this done before the environmental impact is a dissuades activity or or or disallows activity so I I can't see why we wouldn't move this process forward under what's being asked for okay are there other inputs here is there public input on this item I have a motion in a second let me call for the vote all those in favor please say aye aye aye any opposed okay thank you very much let's move on into the regular agenda this is item number eight this is the first public hearing and consideration of introduction of an ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a this is zoning case 12-18 David Missouri related case and the presentation today by our planning manager AJ father good morning good morning to all of you bear with me for just one moment please sorry about that

[0:37:48] our first case for today is a can well that's not even the right case one more moment please here we go is a zoning case that is twofold in that there are two applicants as you can see from your background report one of those applicants being Mr mazur one of those applicants being the city of San Angelo Planning Commission we'll explain that in just a moment there were 18 notifications sent out on this request we received four in favor and zero in opposition I'll go through where those notifications received were received from in just a moment as well to better Orient you we are looking at an area that is just North of the downtown area it is adjacent immediately to North chadburn Street and just south of the expressway and here's a closer view of that the area in Black the corner lot here if you will is the property owned by Mr mazur so that is z1218 the remainder of this block face that is cross-hatched represents the properties that fall under the case number z1219 that was initiated by the city of San Angelo's Planning Commission here's an aerial photograph of these this area the property in question owned by Mr mazur is a property that they're looking at doing some new Redevelopment with it was originally you may remember an industrial service type of business about two years ago the Planning Commission and City staff brought to the city council a discussion for expanding the central business district and at that time we had lengthy discussion about what would happen to this Industrial Service business if that property were rezoned at that time the council instructed us to essentially leave that block as it was so as not to inconvenience that property owner that had been currently in business that business is no longer and again this property is looking at being redeveloped in a way that would fall into the parameters of the central business

[0:39:50] district the remainder of this block face you may be familiar with some of the businesses there the teacher store in particular most people are familiar with it is full of businesses that also fall within the parameters of the Central Business districts they all fall within our retail classification so everything that is in place today and everything that's proposed to be in place would fall within the parameters of today's proposal this is an excerpt from the vision plan map of the comprehensive plan for the city of San Angelo it does call for a purple designation that stands for downtown and it's really aimed at looking at a mix of businesses and encouraging residential into some of the upper stories and sporadic businesses that may be vacant at this time that also fits into the scheme of what the proponent is looking at doing I'll go back for just a moment to talk about the notifications that we sent out and what we received all of the areas in green denote properties that were in favor of this request we also did you might be interested to know talk with downtown San Angelo Mr Morrison I know you'd asked us to do that in a previous case so we did do that this time they were also very much in support of the request so we also have that to report for you a few photographs of the area this is looking East Looking Down East 3rd Street this Center here this property that's labeled the dojo in the photograph is the southernmost boundary of the properties that we're looking at and then this is pulling back and looking down North chadburn so on the right hand side of the screen you'll see all of these businesses on this block face those are the subject of today's request I can show you more photographs if you have specific questions but I think that gives a fairly good overview of the request planning staff does recommend approving it it is consistent with all of our planning principles and documents that we have on file and the Planning Commission also recommended a unanimous approval by a voted 5-0 at their December meeting and if you have any questions on the requests either or I can certainly answer those for you now Mr Mayor I would like to go ahead and

[0:41:52] make a motion okay sir sorry to approve changing the zoning classification from General commercial heavy commercial to use the CB or the central business district I would like to make that motion okay thank you Mr Silvis Mr hirschfield you seconded yes okay is there further discussion by Council on this item okay is there public input on this item I'll call for the vote all those in favor please say aye aye aye any opposed okay item number nine this is the first public hearing and consideration of introducing an ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a of the code of ordinances city of San Angelo this is zoning 12-17 related to CSA materials presentation by our planning manager AJ father thank you on this particular request there were 13 notifications required to be sent out by state law we did receive zero in opposition or in favor of the request the property you might be somewhat familiar with it is within the balance of the property that you as a council annexed into the city limits in December of 2011. the property in question is shown on the map here it encompasses property which Falls along both sides of a projection of Smith Boulevard and just Northwest of Porter Henderson Drive if you were to pull out you would actually see that this property here this street is known as old Ballinger Highway and then here at the front we have North Loop 306 as it turns into Highway 277. this is an aerial photograph this aerial does date back to 2011 but there hasn't been a great deal of change since that time a lot of the property is vacant there are a wide variety of industrial uses that were taking place in and around this area both before the annexation date and since the annexation date you might recall as well that is on the slide we looked at the vision plan map in this area and set up this area is sort of an industrial hub for the Northeast part of San Angelo so the request that the proponent has brought

[0:43:55] to us is in line with that plan and is in line with the industrial designation I have a few photographs I'll flip through very quickly they're not indicative of much other than the sparseness of development in this area this is looking West directly at the subject property in the foreground and then this is looking at the subject property from Porter Henderson Drive it does illustrate some of the activity that is currently taking place on the site and was taking place before the annexation therefore it is still legally being carried on as it is legally non-conforming but this zoning classification change would actually allow this activity to take place in perpetuity here are some other photographs this is looking East on tractor Trail you can see some of the Chaparral development that we're all familiar with and in looking at the requests the Planning Commission did unanimously recommend approval of the request by photo five to zero City staff also recommends that you approve this change if you have any questions I can answer those now a motion to approve as presented second okay I have Mr Adams with a motion Miss farmer with a second Mr Morrison to be recognized so in fact all we're doing is just formalizing what's already happening out there exactly other questions or comments from Council public input on this item call for the vote all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed okay move forward to item number 10. this is the consideration of approving an appeal of a planning commission's decision to deny case number CU 12-14 requesting the approval of a conditional use to allow for household living for an area currently zoned General commercial specifically at an unaddressed track of land on the northwest corner of Knickerbocker Road and Valley View Boulevard presentation today by our planning manager AJ father thank you this request you'll notice in your background report Was Heard by the

[0:45:56] Planning Commission in November the reason for the delay in that coming to you is that there is a 30-day window in which an applicant can appeal a decision of the Planning Commission and so an appeal was made in accordance with those regulations and we're bringing you this today for your consideration I will also remind you that per the zoning ordinance to overturn a decision of the Planning Commission it does require a super majority vote six of the seven must vote in favor of that overturn there were 31 notifications sent out in conjunction with this request I will mention that we notified twice we actually notified for the planning commission's hearing on this item we also notified a second time though it's not required by state law simply to let the residents in the area know that it had been appealed and to give them the opportunity to speak on this matter a second time the subject property is located at the intersection of Valley View Boulevard and North sorry the northwest corner of Knickerbocker Road this is in Far Southwest San Angelo if you continue to go along Knickerbocker Road for a short distance you'll reach Lake nasworthy here is a closer view of that particular property the property is surrounded by lots that are plotted in different configurations you'll notice that the lots to the media north of the property are plotted in a configuration that is consistent with Town Home Development and that is how this area has largely developed immediately adjacent to the West you'll also note some smaller Lots but those have developed in a single family type of fashion so that might be important in your consideration today here's an aerial photograph of the area again this lot in question is completely vacant at this time and here's an excerpt from the vision plan map from our comprehensive plan for the city the red indicates that it is called for to be a type of commercial designation it's also currently zoned as a commercial designation again the request here is to augment that zoning by allowing a conditional use for household living in addition to the commercial zoning that would still remain in place the map I have here for you denotes the notifications that were turned into us

[0:48:00] this was what was turned into us as of the date that you received your background packets we did receive some sense and I will also update you on those all of the Lots in Blue on this particular map indicate parties that wrote in in favor of the change at that time we had not received any in opposition of the change we have since received three notifications that came into our office one as recently as this morning that indicate their vote in opposition of the request I can paraphrase these I can hand these out to you if you'd like to read them yourselves certainly your choice however I will mention that one of the responses that we received in opposition was originally in favor of the proposal they have since reversed their support to be in opposition of this proposal it indicates on their form that they changed that vote because they heard at the Planning Commission meeting that there was intended a duplex type of development on the site and they write in their form that they are not in favor of any sort of duplex or apartment type of building on the site we also received a second letter from someone that could not be here today they indicate just paraphrasing what they've written into us that they have had some negative experiences with rental properties and they are concerned about the noise and the safety issues that could be generated from allowing this type of development at this site and then lastly the third letter in opposition we received talks about decrease in property values an increase in traffic again the rental issue being problematic for them and property maintenance experienced as part of being a rental property so that gets you up to date on all of the letters that we have received both in favor and in opposition of the request this is a Subdivision plat that was also on the November agenda for the Planning Commission it was approved at that time because it does in fact meet all of the subdivision requirements for the city what you may notice is that again this very large block is proposed to be broken up by a street that would be

[0:50:04] extended northward of Valley View Boulevard that street would act as a simple local residential street and it would be in place to essentially provide access for property owners coming to the different properties that would be possibly built on Lots three through ten and then they also call for this lot too which is just over two and a half acres to actually remain as one lot their intent being that at some point in the future it could actually develop commercially in conjunction with the zoning that is in place just a few photographs again the properties of vacant so that's what you'll notice throughout the photographs this is looking at it from Valley View Boulevard you can see some of the property to the rear of this particular subject property some of which indicates people that wrote in we do have the residential development here to the left of the photograph and then here to the center of the photograph you can see some of the commercial and Office Park type of development that has been generated along Knickerbocker Road these are just some photographs of the residences and a closer view again of that commercial area along Knickerbocker Road budding up against the Residential Properties here to Oak Hills Drive this again is looking Southward from Valley View Boulevard and Eastward towards Knickerbocker Road we can look back at those more if you have specific questions about the layout of the property planning staff did recommend approval of the request part of the recommendation was based on the fact that the comprehensive plan which we put into place in 2009 through the city council on their Planning Commission does call for transitions between commercial designations and Commercial properties and Residential Properties and the type of development which is being proposed here would actually create a commercial hub at the intersection it would then blend into and transition into duplex development and that duplex development within transition and step down into single-family development so it's textbook as the way that the comprehensive plan calls for us to see

[0:52:05] development so that was one of the main reasons that we looked for a favorable recommendation on November 19th which was when the Planning Commission heard this request they did recommend denial of the request unanimously by a vote of six to zero there was a great deal of discussion at that meeting we had a numerous amount of people that turned out to talk about the discussion and it really seemed that and I'm paraphrasing but from our view it seemed that the duplex development really seemed to be the Crux of the matter there were many residents there that were not supportive of having rentals brought into the neighborhood and the type of issues that could stem from that and most of those issues that they referred to both in the notification letters and in their testimonies to the Planning Commission were nuisance related and I'm sure we may have some that can speak to you about that today very briefly your background report outlined a number of comprehensive plant excerpts that show to support this type of development I won't go through all of those again I'll just remind you that as we're looking at a zone change request or a conditional use request we are obligated to look at the plans and policies that we have in place the zoning ordinance in the surrounding area as well as a variety of other issues but in doing that City staff again recommends approval I'm going to stop there for now I do have some other points that we can make but if you don't have any questions we can open it up for discussion okay let me start on the end and come this way Mr Alexander yes we explain household living on CG commercial property how does that work household living allows any type of living um which would constitute basically family as it's defined in the zoning ordinance now those families have to be one per unit but the type of unit can vary you could go with a single family residential type of development you could go with a duplex type of development where you could go with a multi-family type of development that could be fourplexes triplexes Apartments when we are taking requests for these

[0:54:11] types of zone changes and conditional uses we do not have a mechanism by which we can make the applicant select one of those types the zoning ordinance allows them to do anything that falls within that designation now this brings us to an important point that I should have made a moment ago and that is that this is a conditional use which is exactly as it sounds the city council and the Planning Commission have the ability to add conditions to the approval that they feel would make this fit in better with the neighborhood typically those types of conditions are things such as screening and noise types of things usually focus on nuisance issues but know that you do have that ability as a council to add conditions to an approval which would limit somewhat the ability of the proponent to develop as you see can we can we say we want it to be rs1 single residential family living can we make that kind of condition no simply because this is not a zone change and so a zoning classification couldn't be assigned to it more little smaller adjustments than that smaller adjustments than that but you could make requirements such as a site plan would have to be approved showing the layout you could say that the unit size could be limited you could do it in that manner garages are required maintenance is required but I mean it can be as detailed as you like so long as it is intended to make the proposal blend in better with its surroundings that's the criteria that we have to follow thank you hey Jake okay Mr Morrison and then miss farmer if I'm understanding you write AJ this is a five or six acre plot now there subdivision plant yeah you are correct but as of the last meeting it is no longer one lot it is now split out into this lot configuration here but all right now as

[0:56:15] of today this entire this entire piece of property is all CG that's correct so if they wanted somebody wanted to put a wrecking yard or a cement plant or anything else on this right now they could do it nothing that intensive but you could see things like a big box retail go in there you could see things like different types of auto services you could see some of those things go in there yes that was another thing that we talked about at the Planning Commission level was making it that the change in use actually occurs at the street instead of across the alleys as to prevent commercial traffic from utilizing that Alleyway and what the proponent is trying to do is just to change those seven lots to an rs2 and lead the front that fronts Knickerbocker in the CG they're actually not going to be changing the zoning on any of these Lots they are simple going to be overlaying if you will this conditional use on top of it so they want to to change the use of those seven Lots while allowing the part that's already on Knickerbocker allowing it to remain CG it will all remain CG with the special use of State well and this conditional use also extends to this front lot so they could at some point in the future change their mind and decide to do the same development with that lot and the street would divide the street would divide a Big Lot in the front yes sir another question I would have and this is a very exclusive part of town these are not going to be duplexes like you might find in other parts of town are these going to be townhouses like we find on Sunset Boulevard or Southwest Boulevard uh in these I'll bring I'll bring them up and let them answer your questions shortly the the folks of the developer that's what I want to know is what type of duplexes are we planning here I'll bring you something that will fit in the rest of the area anything else for Miss farmer AJ um perplexed here uh if you go back to your map showing where it's Zone commercial I automatically go back to a time just a few six seven months ago where we

[0:58:19] considered alcohol sales along Knickerbocker and we showed the entire plan from uh the Bryant all the way out to the airport as to what sections were commercial where there was no residential habitation and to me this area is perfectly suited for commercial use it makes the great buffer zone before it starts into the residential units I for one have no problem with rental properties and there's some very exclusive nice rental properties out in that area currently but what I do have a problem with is the traffic and the overload when you have apartment living or two to four or multiple persons per unit The increased traffic and that brings me to another thought that on not long ago the complaints from both sides of dickerbocker along Valley View the complaints about the traffic and the citizens who lived there and the traffic counts that we had our own engineering department do and they were excessive which called for us just a few short months ago lowering the speed limit on the west side of Valley View because of the heavy traffic so I am perplexed is to allowing any type of house living in this area mainly because of the traffic and Knickerbocker being at the high speeds that it is in our Gateway um it to me it's suited for commercial and I I just need to hear argument as to why we should have residential living that close Mr ends my questions thank you Mr hirschfeld I I guess when I look at um look at the can you go back a picture where you're showing the plot okay right there

[1:00:21] put my glasses on uh see to me I I tend to agree that I believe that that actually fits and creates a a nice barrier to the commercial uh aspect that would still could still be fronting uh Knickerbocker Road uh the other aspect is it it fits with all the residential out there and one of the problems I've got is that that here we're we're trying to tell people yes I know they're going for I mean what if they did had not come forward and said it was going to be rental property what if they had just said I want to build houses and would people still be in opposition to that and and but no now we're we're picking out because it is they identified it specifically laid all their cards on the table and identified in his rental property you know I I think there's a lot of good rental property that is around I don't have a problem with it um I think this tends to fit well with the area out there I don't mind having some restrictions or whatever so they keep it clean and nice and you know I uh but to me it tends to fit Mr Silvis you know I too and you you hit you hit it on the mark Kindle when you said uh the word rental because right away I thought where where is the proponent uh going to right away they said rental property they label it Rental right away I mean there was no I believe what they said was duplexes and through further question and answer session and the Planning Commission it did eventually come to being rentals yes yeah because you know really I don't have any problem with it because right across the street off of Knickerbocker you got that the rental properties the apartment complex I don't know how many units are out there but they're rental and I don't see

[1:02:23] that it's you know uh doing away to the you know to the area you know just making the area even worse off that it's not bad you know so I I too question that is if the proponent label it Rental uh that's what he he or they presented it to you I think it'll be appropriate for them to come forward and speak to that we simply during the application process all they're obligated to provide staff with is what category they wish to utilize in that category is household living short of that they are not required to specify which type for us they would like to pursue it's all Encompass within that category yeah I would like to hear from them and from any of the opponents out there and and hear what they have to say what I'm pretty sure you're going to get your wish yes uh okay would it be appropriate for me to answer I want to see if there are any other further questions for your part and then I'll open it up to public input and I'll first bring up the developer so that you can ask your specific questions and let the whole process take place of folks that are proponents and folks that are opposed getting their opportunity to talk but are there any further questions for Miss Favre before I start that process okay can I possibly address in this Farmer's question absolutely I don't feel like I did that um to to answer one of your questions you did talk about the traffic and you're correct that that was a concern that we um looked at and we our engineering staff also reviewed this proposal with us and two of the things that we kept coming back to well I should say three actually were number one that that this area is a major intersection it's one of the few intersection sections in the city that has two arterial streets intersecting and so where better I guess is one way that we looked at it where else could we find a more appropriate type of intersection in which both streets are already improved to that standard not that it's the best

[1:04:27] possible situation perhaps but that was one of the the questions that we had to ask ourselves we also talked a little bit about the fact that this proposed residential street does have an outlet to Oak Hills trail so as we tried to somewhat project what the use and the activity of this area could look like if it's developed in this way we tend to believe that you would probably see more of the residential traffic exiting out this way so as to avoid the major intersection whereas most commercial businesses that would want to perhaps utilize this two and a half acres would most likely want their Frontage and their entrance to be off of Knickerbocker so as to gain that advantage of visibility now these things are projections and speculations but that's what we're here to do so that that's kind of where we went down that road of discussing the traffic issues and then thirdly we also talked about the fact that limiting the size of the residences yes ma'am since we were talking about duplexes and we're looking at duplexes on seven Lots we also looked at the type of traffic the amount of traffic that would generate versus an apartment complex so on and so forth so these were all discussions that were had both internally and with the Planning Commission is there any type of restriction with the railroad going through right there and the number of rail cars now and backing up stacking up traffic and as that improves is there any restriction by the railroad is to cuts that can be granted off of Knickerbocker into this area that I don't know they would actually have to have a formalized application to act on it takes that decision yeah okay all right I think at this point what I'd like to do is ask Mr Morrison and whomever else you'd like to bring up to answer questions for Mr Morrison Mr Silvis the questions they have specifically about what your intentions are so if you could come on up if you like you can make just a

[1:06:35] a short presentation and then take questions that take care of you okay I need to identify myself please I'm Brad Morris and I'm the actual owner of the piece of property and she didn't read my uh my reply but if y'all don't mind I'd like to kind of give you some of my thought process and background from where I'm coming from if I can get my act together here and I brought some visuals I'll pass out in a minute uh anyway I invested in this large track of land about six years ago with intentions of developing it and originally there was talk of somebody about big box user buying the corner and what you kind of worry about the rest of it later well since then it's you know our economy kind of went South and you know different things have happened maybe the property is way too deep for most commercial uses that want to come in there and have kicked tires so to speak you know to build anything and I don't know if I can point on this bill right here but that being said you know we've worked with the city staff and tried to create a buffer that totally conforms with the city's master plan and we're proposing a lower density than the current zoning is right now as far as going down and zoning and what we're talking about doing the cost is going to be major and like somebody said about the cost of the we're not talking about just building duplexes that are you know going to attract some low-end type rental type property we're talking about something that'll be nice and attractive and enhance the values of the properties instead of you know devaluing the properties anyway like I've been involved in San Angelo for over 25 years and you know I just want to make change a little better so anyway I would like to pass out uh before I kind of go to my next we've back we've actually sold this last this corner right over here it has actually been oh you bet

[1:08:38] my copies first I got lots of notes uh okay let's see there's one there's like a plant or something I've got pictures from yesterday to get each one of these each one of these in each one of those okay while she's passing those out this last this corner down here has actually been sold to a dentist with where the air is pointing and then like we've had some Tire kickers on this on this corner like CVS and Walgreens and some of that kind of stuff but none of them want anything that deep because I mean I didn't realize how deep it was when I invested in it six years ago and paid taxes on it for six years service the debt everything else so we started looking for a way that might like I say buffer what's there and what you know what's probably going to go in on the front with the growth of San Angelo's seeing right now we kind of feel like I mean and I'm seeing my my phone's ringing again and hopefully something will happen on that corner that'll be a nice attractive business that everybody can use in that area and just a quick background for me and why I even bought this piece of property I said I moved to San Angelo about 25 years ago and uh I'm married to say nice little girl when I first moved here I'm gonna get you to let you get your handouts y'all look at this little map right here when I first moved here 25 years ago I rented a apartment on San Angelo Southern Arms Apartments which I've extended the map just a little bit and labeled which is a couple of blocks over from this address side I live there until I met a girl and married a San Angelo girl we started

[1:10:40] raising three kids and we built a house in Bentwood which is just across the street down a few blocks away and so I think about 2004 came along and I bought a business in love with it required me to move to Lubbock well San Angelo is until you leave it you don't realize what you're missing so I sold that business came back San Angelo reinvested in the business here but I've got kids three kids so I commuted back and forth for now for I mean years that eight years yeah so anyway for eight years I've commuted back and forth and I invested in this property and another business in San Angelo and can't wait for the day we can come back here and be full time again but I got one last kid to launch so we get her out of the way this next year hopefully we can do that but anyway uh with all that being said if you look all around this area there is uh there's rental property there's duplexes there's apartments I mean and the Planning and Zoning meeting kind of got out of hand we weren't prepared for opposition last time there was Zero opposition letters that came in so instead of it being really about what we're asking for it kind of turned into a meeting of neighbors versus what's right or wrong because they were worried about their property values well what it's going to cost to build this street and the type of structures we're going to build there is not going to be something that's going to hurt anybody's values so I passed out one I was I I was actually going to live in one of these properties but because of the delay I went ahead and bought a house and Bentwood again about 45 days ago and on this map my new house is right here yesterday morning I'm leaving I gave you a picture of a house on Fairway Drive that's for rent for 2500 a month that's this house right here honestly let me give it away

[1:12:43] you have it yeah that one okay and on the corner as you're going to from my house to this piece of property on this corner right here at Valley View and Westway Drive two new pad sites were going up yesterday morning both of them are going to be duplexes backing up to Bentwood residential so I mean it just conforms I mean like I said everything that I think that does the neighbors a favor it doesn't hinder their property values so the traffic is going to be so minimal because there's an alley time behind the houses in this lot right here that run but there's an alley that these houses here have rear entry garages too so if we build structures here that have re-entry garages the only traffic that you're going to get is going to be visitors coming to the front of the property well how much better it could get so we're talking about eight Lots you know maybe seven just depending on what size and restrictions that we come up with so that's kind of the end of the story questions for him I think you answered most of my questions I just you know I was concerned as to what type of duplexes you're going to build but it looks to me like you're going to build something pretty nice yeah well I'll kind of share with you one story back when I was a high senior in high school my dad and my grandfather are both home builders and I grew up in a little town east of Dallas in Greenville Texas and I think it was 1979 I was a senior in high school he built some structures similar to this from my grandparents to live in basically so they'll be safe and we're going to maintain these things we're going to build a brick wall that's going to actually buffer uh it's right here it's gonna be a solid brick wall all the way from uh none of this was addressed at the Planning and Zoning because like I said we just thought we were trying to get a special use permit and that was it so we're going to build a brick wall it's going to be nice and you know aesthetically uh is that the right word aesthetic

[1:14:46] very good right here you know all the way down this all the way down this right here so that'll actually separate it that even that much more but the story I was going to share with you was that when I was senior in high school my grandparents wanted to kind of sell their house they live on a farm they want to move into town so my father and grandfather built these similar type situation we had neighbors all around complain about it they said well we're gonna have rental property all that kind of stuff well it was funny a couple years later some of these neighbors complained wanted to get on the waiting list to get in one of these in these uh particular type situation so these could be purchased and all they could be purchased yeah so we say rental but that doesn't mean that it's exactly rental people could buy these things yeah and they're all over Southwest San Angelo all along Southwest Boulevard and back in there off Saul Ross we had those all down Valley View in the Bentwood I mean it's just a matter of various you answered my various type and it conforms and just kind of in my mind well we put a lot of effort into it we didn't just come up with this overnight come up with something hey we're going to try to you know recruit some of the money we've got invested in this property because I mean like I said I I've lived in Bentwood twice now I plan on living there again permanently so I'm going to be a block away I think you answered mine also I I believe that some maybe and I'm guessing I don't know I haven't heard what the opponents have to say but I would imagine they're they're worried about you building some kind of low you know just well I told them before is that they're the kind of neighbors we're looking for we're not trying to run anybody off so you're looking at building some high-end high-end luxury duplexes or whatever this this place right here that I gave you a picture of is for rent for 2500 a month yeah in that two question just like uh Kendall said that if you hadn't thrown that word I don't know who threw it in

[1:16:47] the the word rental maybe we wouldn't be here exactly but if you're going to maybe allow some of these folks to purchase the properties nice looking properties we may be okay I don't know well what I'd like to do first is build them and then lease them to you know I took class you know what I saw a ball in in my experience was something similar was you know just the progression of life is you'd have kind of mom and pop movie and pop would kick off then the mom then the Widow ladies would kind of Nest together you know and share their meals or whatever and then they'd still have a separate place to stay you know uh and we'll kind of look after each other you know so uh okay other questions for the gentleman before we go to the next yes ma'am Miss farmer Mr Morris what you don't have any plans on the construction or the type of unit the materials or anything at this point is that correct well just because of the cost of the street and everything else it's going to be something rocking brick and stucco and I mean well the one I was trying to get at and get two I mean it's not a tax credit property and it is in a a high rent zone or district and renters are not all bad I've had really great experiences with renters that's not been my objection I'm running it south in arms twice and then the reason I went back out there because it was 25 years later and they've kept them up and it's the nicest part of town some great professors at ASU that are renters and that's it's the question of traffic and how we as a city handle it sure is my only objection which is waning and I because I do support renters and I do support buffer zones if the quality of the construction is in compliance with the balance of the neighborhood that's the kind of restriction I welcome you to put on us because we we want to do something that's conforming and nice and attractive forever if the quality of the construction is in compliance with the

[1:18:50] neighborhood I wouldn't oppose at all okay Miss former Mr Alexander my question was similar is there any architectural restrictions I live in Bentwood and I'm telling you I do the wrong thing I get a phone call I mean there is a strict restrictions about I can't even park a boat out in my driveway more in a couple days but you also have to use all brick and or stucco and there's all these restrictions you got to have your garage on the side we didn't even get that far because what we were trying to do is just do something that matched the master plan of the city we work with the staff intensely to get everything get over all our p's and q's just right so here's the problem we're at city council right now and for us to come up with that architectural restriction plan is fairly tough but can you kick it back to planning and zoning and say we might could because I think it has to be in place to control the quality that Mr farmer is talking about I think it has to be in place see if I have a possibility here and I did bring this up to some of the investors I mean one of them it really is necessary and so I'm just I'm just bringing that up it to me it's very important well you're asking a question let Miss Carver answer it right okay it's a good good question um what we typically see with our Planning Commission is that they will either a um table a requests until they have materials in front of them or B they will designate a specific person the planning manager or the planning division or the Planning Commission you could delegate this to them someone to review the plans and to make that call because ultimately we can say what our intentions are but someone has to make sure that those intentions are met if we were to go forward with this and approve it if it may have heard the other side I've heard the other side it's pretty interesting but if we were due to do this I think we'd have to have these architectural restrictions in place I think it have to happen and so I I don't see us approving it today I see us table in it for more restrictions and more clarification because when it comes to the very end

[1:20:53] here what's going to happen is clarification is going to be vague and to be hard to make a decision for us as council members and you'll see what I'm saying we hear the other side and I think the other question that you have to answer in doing that is who is the appropriate body that works routinely with these types of restrictions that would be best suited to to oversee those okay so we go forward I'd like to decide okay there's an interesting other Council got another council member they'd like to speak Mr herspell one of my concerns and I to me I think Miss farmer hit it is that we wanted to uh conform with the surrounding neighborhood and to me I I'm not really a proponent of saying okay I want red brick and a blue door and windows that are this big and no no no no no no that that's not our job I don't believe I believe that we are out of place and trying to request that kind of level of detail I believe and I think we could we could remand it to the planning not the commission but the planning department and say that it would have to conform generally with with surrent with that surrounding neighborhood and could something like that fly you could you might recall that when you did the plan development districts for both Shannon and Howard College that was written into the requirements was that the the planning director or planning manager oversee what the proposals were and if there was any misgivings about the proposals that decision could be appealed back to you for a final decision because I I mean you need to have because you're a developer you wouldn't know wherever else need to have the flexibility and the opportunity to do what you want but you know I think we're just saying we would like for it to be just with and it doesn't have to keep the same style

[1:22:55] I'm very open with that you see what I'm saying that I want it to be I think it's it just needs to let retain with the level of class of homes and the appearance of the class of homes that are in that area and and I'll say that that I was a resident I lived at 2733 Oak Hills trail okay so I was right around the corner of that thing and I would I would probably not I would be on the side of I would be for it I don't have a problem with it regardless whether I would be living there or not so but it's a nice neighborhood I know it I lived it I walked it and so that would be my concern there is I want to make sure that it keeps with the intent I guess of the neighborhood okay further before I move the process forward further questions for these things he did you did mention you had what a year time frame a year for us to get the project started or the special used condition is only good for a year Miss father there's any you're going to need to provide Clarity on what Mr Silvis asked I'm sorry I didn't hear the question you talk about a time frame that he has conditional uses must be a permit must be pulled essentially to start the work within one year of the date of approval there is an opportunity for one one-year extension of that through the planning manager now when I say permit remember that's not the end of the project that's actually the beginning of the project sure okay okay other questions I'd like um excuse me okay uh sir you you're I'm going to let you be the first one to the mic I think we're through asking questions uh and folks what I'd like you to do at this point whether you're a proponent or whether you're an opponent how about you all are basically up at the front of the room anyway but I'd like to get you close to the front of the room so that as someone steps up and

[1:24:58] speaks you're able to step up right behind them and just keep it as orderly as possible respect and decorum is a part of the process so I'm looking for respect and decorum so sir kick us off okay Mr Morris I think you can have a seat any more questions and I think we're good to go thank you hi my name is Louis blanik and I've been chosen or hired to be the contractor on these duplexes and so what y'all were discussing was whether or not it would be up to the quality of the existing houses in the neighborhood and most definitely it will be they're going to be Rock Brick and stucco we're dealing right now with a an ordinance that y'all are requiring because we want the pitch of the roof to be 9 or 10 and 12 to get really a spectacular elevation and what have you and and we've got the situation where anything that exceeds seven and a half foot in the Attic is considered square footage and the square footage of these properties are going to be in the neighborhood of 1800 to 2000 square feet per side on the dupe plexus they're going to be the high quality skip trial texture inside Granite no fiberglass tubs or what have you it's going to all be Tile and Marble it's going to be the high dollar marble tile and what have you they're looking at you know rental ranges in the neighborhood of somewhere between 1800 and 22 hundred dollars per side uh so so to clarify all that we're not building something shabby you and you don't go out there and build something and spend 375 425 000 on a duplex and uh and let it run down okay thank you sir thank you who would like to speak next you're welcome just to come up okay here you go hi

[1:27:00] just introduce yourself and Greg Keeling okay I live at 5114 Blue Ridge Trail uh I spoke during the commission hearing and I'm here to speak out against it again I was in opposition of it I still am uh I was born and raised in San Angelo when I was going to college and working here I lived in a similar setup a rental duplex on Wilder eye Trail it's on the corner of Bermuda and Green Green Meadow okay at the time I couldn't afford the rent on my own because it was a high-end area and uh but I got two college buddies of mine and we moved in and it was doable then at one point we had four people living there there were other college kids in the area that were doing the same thing and it was uh that whole two block area was was pretty much a bunch of young kids at the time there were a lot of problems that came about from that uh a lot of parties a lot of police were always getting called disturbances property crimes parking issues were just total chaos we had two parking spaces per unit we had three vehicles living at ours at one time four vehicles living there and you'd come home from work or school somebody else would be in your parking space you'd have to park in somebody else's or or would block the alley Park in the grass park around the block on the street it was just uh it was just kind of chaotic and at the time the property that we were living in sold to another another owner and I looked up the tax records on it last week and those two owners aren't even listed on there there's been so many it's changed hands so many times since then uh I don't want that happening in my

[1:29:03] neighborhood if you if you go by there today and look at Wilder eye Trail uh you'll see that those duplexes are in all states of disrepair uh there's there are all kinds of owners over there at that property uh and I presume most of them probably don't even live there but there's it's not just one corporation that owns it it's fractured out and has several different owners my my better half and her her former husband built the home that we live in in 1995. uh they're one of her biggest concerns when buying that property was the land that was behind them they did not want an apartment situation going up behind them and uh their their security was that it was commercial Zone and so they built the home now I live there with her and we're homeowners we have a mortgage everyone in our neighborhood or homeowners we have no rental property in our affected area here uh just this past year we've built a new privacy fence a city approved carport we're doing a kitchen remodel right now you know we take pride take pride in our home and I just I know from experience that renters don't you know it's they start out with good intentions but uh it just doesn't always end up that way with the rental property I mentioned it before at the commission hearing that uh if these were individual Lots with custom built homes like what we're living in

[1:31:04] I wouldn't be here today opposing this because I know what would be coming in behind us I would get to know our neighbors and there would be fellow homeowners you know with a mortgage with a house payment and not just somebody that's temporarily there at the commission hearing also miss Boggs uh who sits on the Planning Commission she used the legal term that I kind of really liked that pertained to this and it was quiet use and enjoyment and she said it was the city's obligation to assure the citizens have quiet use and enjoyment of their homes and there's no truer words could be said I think the Planning Commission did the right thing when they denied this request all right thank you very much I appreciate your presentation thank you good morning good morning I'm a widow I'm Freda Ingram and I live in uh 8A of that block and I agree with Mr Keeling everything he said only I said renters most a lot of them just do not take care of the property and they move in and out quite often and with the rent being high like I say it'll probably take two or more families to afford it and it'll be noisy all the traffic around there and they say they're building eight duplexes for three or four hundred thousand and that's not very much money for eight I I believe that numbers up per each okay the three or four hundred thousand

[1:33:07] is per duplex not per D Flex yes ma'am oh okay I misunderstood that but anyway I just wanted to state that why I was against it and that I agree with Mr Keeling thank you very much you're welcome good morning I'm Verna Leggett And I currently reside at 26 to 2622 Oak Hills trail and I faced the property one of the reasons we bought our property was the fact that it was on a cul-de-sac and we do have I have a dog San Angelo doesn't currently have a dog park here I've only been here since 05. and I like the fact that I can go and let my dog and I run up and down the street without the benefit of people careening around street so my major concern is the fact that you are going to open up my cul-de-sac that I currently live on to more traffic and if it's as they say the rent is going to be twenty five hundred dollars between 18 and 2200 and there is the benefit of more than one occupant because my son currently lives in that type of environment and uh microservice most is the is an increase in traffic my home butts up against across the alleyway townhouses and as the older couples are passing on and their kids are in um inheriting these properties they're turning into rental properties and I'm not liking that I'm not liking the fact that I come out and I have more garbage than I generate in my trash bin these are small little things but it's encroachment onto my property and that's what I have to currently deal with missing items NSS now so when you throw in the excess traffic and the inquire use of Milo Street I'm just not I'm not for that I mean one or two people a party every now and again but if they're gonna do something like that could possibly happen you guys are looking at today I'm looking at 15 years

[1:35:10] down the road when I'm still sitting there and he may have in turn decide because he's a businessman to make a deal and he passes on and it passes on we're making Investments because we're planning on staying he is he going to make that same commitment to us and say he's not 10 years down the road going to transition to another business obligation for himself opportunities should I say for himself we have that don't have that guarantee and I know you can only make a decision based on what's presented to you today but as the old Japanese folks used to do we got a 10-year plan going on in my household in that situation I don't want to look at my door and look at crap he say it's not going to be crap today but 10 years down the road when I can't afford to my I've already ex exhausted my ability to make an income and I'm living on a pension that's one of my concerns the increase in traffic on my street you say it's going to be a buffer I have very seldom hear the train go by I very seldom here traffic on my street because there is isn't any because there's only four houses and we all pretty much have to have uh back entrances to our homes the people I live with currently they don't have that much company coming over they don't have that much that's not that much if any at all people parking on on the street currently so I can go out there with my dog with my son throw the football and play in my street I don't I don't want to lose that but again like I said you can only make a decision based on what's presented to you today thank you I'm Bill Roberts Dwayne good to see you Alvin good to see you uh I live at 2614 Oak Hills trail right across from the proposed property uh guys I put a lot of work into keeping my place up to date and done a lot of Renovations on it and I'd like to see

[1:37:16] the neighborhood stay that way uh you know when I look across there yeah I'd like to have something put in there but I'd like to have something put in there with with a little bit of thought about all the rest of us that live in that neighborhood now granted the homes now Blue Ridge Trail uh but if you look at all the other homes in the neighborhood down Oak Hills trail there's some beautiful homes around there Santiago Canyon there's some beautiful homes and uh you know uh this this area is not huge uh and I don't even see putting these duplexes in there I'd like to see maybe a couple of custom built homes or something of that nature go in there and if you're going to have something commercial on the front of that property then then put something good on that on that one side at least it would fit in with the rest of the properties and so I'm totally against this duplexes because rental property is just not going to do it okay okay thank you sir not getting that feedback do you guys have any idea good morning I'm E.J Roberts I live at 5118 Blue Ridge Trail I I appeared with Mr Keeling and some of my other Good Neighbors at the uh hearing by the Planning Commission I agree with what my neighbors have said when you think about 16 different living areas in one block using an alley that we are currently using and you know as well as I do that it be darn unusual for a family that have less than two vehicles okay well let's just do the math that's 32 down vehicles to go along with the ones that we already have using that same alley uh Miss farmer over here mentioned something about traffic there's children in our area there's

[1:39:20] dogs in our area we just think it would take away from our property values from our quality of life and I know this guy wants to make a fast buck so do I but this is not the way to do it I suggest if you want to do some rezoning how about going to rs1 that single family residences I don't think any of us have a big objection to that thank you very much thank you good morning I didn't move up near enough to the front my name is my name is Jim Whitten I live at 5126 Blue Ridge Trail and uh I have lived and worked everywhere from uh uh way up North in Fargo North Dakota all the way down to almost to the Guatemalan border a change happens change is hard to accept at times but it does happen I don't have any uh any of a problem with what has been proposed with respect to the type of buildings there if they just didn't have the word rental uh I have had one or two surgeries since we have moved to San Angelo a man and my doctors have advised me to do some walking Blue Ridge Trail if you haven't been on it is a very wide street so I can walk all the way down to Loop 306 and back and that's about my half hour walk whenever I cross over to a Palo Duro there are a number of those townhouses I suppose that's what you call them are

[1:41:24] rentals a lot of times I have to dodge all the vehicles that are involved with some of those rental units and and I usually try to walk three to three to five days a week there so I see a lot of what happens whenever I see some of the rental cars which have moved out it's not long thereafter I see remodelers coming in and taking care of things so uh I think the word rental is really what has gotten most of us stirred up I don't know how you work your way around that but I thank you for the opportunity to to be here this morning thank you sir good morning my name is Christopher and I live on Blue Ridge Trail as well I grew up in San Angelo my husband and I did and we lived over in the wall School District we moved away in 03 to the Houston area and we've purchased four homes together and every time we purchased a home I purchased it without even considering the neighborhood or the neighbor and every time we bought a home it was there was a rental property next door and so we had horror stories of parking and people just moving in and out leaving trash the people that own the home selling the home so we just had nightmares so moving back in 2006 my husband requested please consider the neighborhood please consider I left before him because he had a finish his work assignment and so when I came down with the budget that I had I looked all over San Angelo and he gave me a few neighbor a few areas that I could pick a home in and I finally my final result was on

[1:43:28] Blue Ridge and I did consider there was no rental property next to me I visit my neighbors and I did realize it was a commercial Zone behind me but I thought we can handle the business because they'll keep the premise is clean and there won't be the high the rental property so buying this home was a great a fee a great accomplishment for both of us however I do consider after we found out about the rental duplex consideration of that idea it was very I frowned upon it and so did he um there is the tracks that do go through there and when I'm coming home sometimes I do have to avoid the line of line of cars that are there so I cut off on Palo Duro I create traffic there as well and then everyone else does as well so I also utilize Oak Hills cul-de-sac to get into my neighborhood Through the Alley and come in behind into my garage if that if that rental property comes up that's just more of a nightmare more traffic because we avoid that and we always notify each other my husband called me hey the track the train's coming across you know cut through cut through so I can imagine all those duplexes with two cars or more we had two kids we had two drivers that were two years apart so we had four cars I felt so horrible during that time for my neighbors because my daughter and my son would park in the back and we're in the front and I would tell them to park in the back and then I felt bad for my neighbors because we were we had a lot of cars there they're gone I have a marine and I have a nurse now they've both left so I kind of feel a little relieved that we're not tying up so that's just I was considerate of that and I just hope you guys consider that for us as far as traffic and I took lots of procedure I mean I took precaution to not buy next to rental property okay thank you thank you my name is Nancy Vincent and most you

[1:45:32] guys I've worked with a couple times before I am a real estate agent and what I just to kind of address a couple of the things that I think are concerns and you know we this comes up a lot you know when we're selling homes people have you know is there going to be rental property is there a barking dog next door you know we never you never really do know that but I think what the concerns are is mainly about the type of of structures that are going to be built and what kind of people you're going to have in this and from everything I've talked to Lewis and the developers and this is not going to be you know where you're going to have people that are going to be in and out and you know doing a lot of things that would be not acceptable to any neighborhood there are two car garages in each one of them so it's just like I mean most of the homes around there to car garages the Oak Hills Trail Range and in all of Santiago Canyon I don't think any of them have more than two car garages so I think you're looking at a new a different type of rental property than what maybe folks that I have been involved in rental property are visioning you know because there are some of these kind of rental properties in San Angelo and they're very well maintained they're you know when you're spending the kind of money three hundred thousand dollars per unit you're not gonna let them go downhill you know and you're always going to be sure that they're rented by the kind of people that are going to take care of them and there are ways to control that you know there are laws out there for you know people I think what they're envisioning is more of the Baby Boomers you know there's there's been this need for a long time in San Angelo people come out of their bigger home and they're looking for something small and easy to take care of that you know and these people are going to be kind the kind of people that I think will take good care of this property I think they're going to be beautiful they're going to have granite

[1:47:34] and I mean no different from a regular residential home and I just think the the rental word is what scaring people and I don't think that's going to be the case in this situation okay thank you thank you other public input Mr Keeling I think it's time for me to go ahead and move to a vote okay all right I I need a motion discussion yes could I ask a question absolutely what I all I was going to say is I need a motion I need a table I need a I need something that moves us forward or further comment up here that's what I mean I have two questions that I need answered and I'll do my comment with them in possibly emotion I don't know I wanted to respond and that get I'll get to my questions but quiet peaceful enjoyment of living is the right of everyone even renters uh the success of any rental property is the responsibility of the property owner and the property resident there are current laws as the lady just mentioned there are current laws that govern the property owner to take care of the property as well as the renter what they can and can otter may do San Angelo is just beginning to exercise those laws and do right by both entities but by your own admission the word rental is what you oppose to I have to ask the question would you be opposed to a gated community even if it were rental you know there are rentals in gated communities all over the state the one that comes to mind is right down by Rice University in Houston a very high-end rentals

[1:49:39] and then my other question is who is the management company going to be from day one because again the success of the neighborhood toward a rental property is definitely the management and if that management is going to screen your applicants their background and their histories and uh criminal background checks and so forth that a lot of your communities do and I I need to know who that management company is going to be but can only answer the question for me for right now it won't answer the question two years from now three years from now and I don't think anybody can answer that question but I can also tell you that tomorrow each of us who own property our home could be a rental property depending on circumstance I can't justify vetoing or saying no to a subdivision development or a rental property development or a Housing Development or Business Development just because a small community in our large community doesn't like the word rental that to me becomes highly prejudicial and I have to consider what's good for the city our city in my opinion is in need of high end rentals it's in need of a gated community it's in need of a lot of things that we're working toward and if someone could answer me possibly Mr Morris with who he intends on being his management company uh then my decision will be an easy one and then my other question is to would you oppose any of you that are opposed would you oppose a gated Rental Community okay Mr Morris

[1:51:53] as far as your question regarding the management company yes we will be the managers okay and we will very tightly screen the applicants because the audience we're after we wanted them up kept thank you okay is there someone prepared to answer the question about the Gated Community okay just one just one just just one you know person who maybe speaks for overall how they feel about a rental gated community I don't I don't really understand what what you'd mean by a gated community I'd have to I guess see it look at it are you talking about like Southridge which is just south of us the South Ridge Neighborhood no it's it's a gated community that you have access key card access or security 24 hours a day and most of those have a like a fence or parameters surrounded by wall a fence some sort uh not I would have no problem with that because you would either live there or you wouldn't if you lived adjacent to it I guess you'd have a a wall or a fence between you and you wouldn't have that traffic influx of traffic coming in and out thank you I would if there are no other questions I am prepared to make a motion to approve at this time yes Mr Alexander suggestions as far as I'd love to hear that when I have another question I'm just gonna I do have this is AJ first you answer and then I'll give my point of view on this okay well if I could first respond to Ms Farmers um I do want to make sure that we make the council aware of the fact that our subdivision ordinance does require with subdivision approval to publicly dedicate their streets and so gated communities that are entirely encompassed and have private streets you might remember one that we brought to you recently because the developer went out of business and they are asking us

[1:53:57] to take those streets back there are some complications I would be remiss if I didn't remind you of that okay let me just remind everybody my my degree is in environmental Design This is basically architectural maybe a building but maybe an entire block and so this is what my profession this is what I do this is what I trained in and then I also uh my family they're Builders they've built 1600 houses so we're developers I'm a business person I work towards an MBA I didn't quite get it I went into business so I didn't get it but so I I'm on both sides of this where you know this is a money decision it's also an aesthetic architectural decision and I can say that this puts this Council in a difficult position because I'm watching this this is pitting neighbor against neighbor and as a leader here I would say please bring me a win-win solution and to do that you would each have to know each other's sides completely and have the creative ability to work this out before you brought it to us and it's not in a worked out form right now which is a problem I'd say the intentions are good I'm hearing what we're going to put in I understand intentions are very good the clarity of scope is vague from the standpoint of what we are approving which is a household living overlay household living encompasses rs1 all the way to Apartments so we didn't Target rs2 and be clear about this we just it's household living right we're not legally allowed to and we as a council are only approving the household living overlay so we can't even hardly talk about whether it's rental or not rental you have you have before you a request for conditional use so you do have the right to impose conditions I'm going to move into that so this farmer can still hear me in the back and this is where I'm going and I'm going to make some suggestions uh I've researched both sides I know people on both sides of this I've had a very open mind uh and and so it's it's and

[1:56:00] it's incumbent on me to find a win-win solution that everybody can walk away and be happy with I know you're wondering how the heck am I going to do this well this plan does not necessarily fit the existing residential rs1 plan the next the neighbors you have an rs1 neighborhood and you put household living next to it they don't necessarily coincide together necessarily because it's unpredictable what you could put in a household living uh overlay and so I'm going through my notes here so I can shorten this the question is can this be a win-win and the answer is yes the the proponents have already said that if you put rs1 here it's win-win and so we know that can be a win-win so I'm thinking okay but that's not something we can consider today so how can we make this work and I think our tool here is to implement appropriate architectural restrictions that really nail down what's going to happen over here and how it's going to be controlled in such a way that it doesn't get out of control in 10 years and so my suggestion Miss farmer is when you make a motion is that you you allow me my motion is to send this back to the planning to somebody I'm not an expert on who it goes to send it back for specific architectural restrictions that fit the proponents and and the develop developers and that make everybody happy because it can be done I I've heard I've heard what is the problem and I've heard Solutions and I know it can be done you know where is the garage in the back the front the side these are very important Rogers in the back they're using the alley to get in and out the garage is in the front they're using that street to get in and out and they leave the neighbors alone they don't all

[1:58:01] those cars are not their problem now and they're because their garage is in the existing houses are in the back and so they're they're backing into these other cars and I've seen this in other parts of town these people people call me up and say people are parking in my alley because they can't fit in their driveway and they're blocking my access to my own carport and I so this is the kind of things that could happen with the rental situation it can be done so my motion is to send it back for appropriate architectural restrictions bring those restrictions to us so we can improve it in a win-win manner I have a question okay Mr Adams I haven't seen anything throughout this process because I have been straddled the fence I can see what both sides are seeing and I think they both make very valid points so before I I support your motion I have to ask those residents homeowners that are opposed to this would they be in agreement with that because if if they're not going to support that if we can't come to your win-win situation then I am going then I am going to my vote is going to be to uphold the planning decisions um outcome their vote their vote on these they would have to be but as I said but if if they can agree to work together and make this a win-win situation then I'm then I'm all for it then they're bringing us a win-win that we can improve with good conscience and and neighborly fashion here like we are in sin Edge we are neighbors incentives we get along well we're friendly let's keep that alive in San Angelo instead of sending everybody away and half of these people are not happy that's that's just not essential way of doing business well keep in mind there are some procedural regulations we have to follow and those are we need to talk about those okay um your obligation as a council to act on the conditional use is to act on it as it is proposed we cannot require the applicant to give you a very specific

[2:00:06] type of application their only requirement is to apply for a category which the zoning ordinance covers and we have that now you do have the ability to make those conditions that are architectural in nature but it would be the appropriate way to proceed for this commission this Council the commission or someone else that is designated to come up with those specifications we have to act on the application as it was turned in not send them back to the drawing board and make them come up with an application that we want to see that's outside of the purview of what we can do and the application that is that is received has flaws that make it weak as in terms of win-win and so that's true but it needs the legal requirements what can we do to modify what we have now you can and I know that you said we can fine tune the requirements and I have a list I can get into it require front-facing garages Master Landscaping plan for renters if there's a renter there has to be a master landscaper in charge uh roof pitch eight plus you know eight to twelve pitch the size of the buildings have to be 1800 square feet or greater you know we can go through these but this is not the place to get 50s actually it is because the requirements if you let me finish I'll explain that there's different ways that you can do that you can either do that in Open session today or you can delegate that to another body but to delegate that to the applicant is not appropriate delegate it's another body such as you either my staff myself or the Planning Commission would be the ones that I would suggest you choose right yes please okay I'm going to go back to kind of the the position that I took on this thing and that is that that I would be in favor I don't want to kick it down the road I think that you know that we need to get get this thing settled move on plus I'm concerned about I'm concerned about putting all these too many stipulations on the thing I would rather put a general guideline and my guideline is that it needs to conform or be

[2:02:10] compatible visually compatible uh with surrounding neighborhood I mean to me that's the answer and that gives flexibility to you to say no that's what we need to have because that's what the neighborhood goes it does and it gives flexibility and the developer to whether he wants to go stucco or brick or rock or I mean I don't want to tell him what he has to he has to use White Rock or this no that to me we're going that that's stepping Beyond but it needs to be compatible and I and we've already heard from the Builder and we've heard from the developer that that's his intent that's what he's got on the plans and so I think it's appropriate to kick it back where the planning department helps control that and would that be effective and there's two ways you can do that you can either approve it today subject to the condition that everything be vetted through the planning department or you can table it and have staff come up with proposed conditions for you to place on the application I thought you were going somewhere else and I was wondering what is your tool to control that and then you went right back to where I was and and either one of those are fine with me but you it has to involve the residents all of them it's where everybody's working on this not just they have to be a part of the process that's that's the requirement for me okay the fact is I have a motion and then it sounds like it's not an actionable motion so I want to get you to reword clean it up a little bit there are two options send it back to the planning department and allow them to place restrictions and bring it back to us or allow us to work up a new proposal with conditions that we would like to see placed they may not make everyone happy we may not be able to do that but we can bring you a list of conditions that we feel meet your concerns or you can

[2:04:14] approve it subject to the condition that all of these issues for architectural design and site layout be approved by the planning department and if the planning department chooses not to approve it it comes back to you for final decision we have to do it in a way that there's an appeal process in place and there is someone designated to make a decision I mean your guide is and which one's better let me let Miss farmer make a run in her motion okay and see if it gets a second and moves forward I don't think I've got enough air um I will make the motion that today's action be approved subject to miss father being the one planning department that oversees the construction and the issues that we've covered today is that two broad conforming with with conforming to the neighborhood conforming to the existing neighborhood with appeal compatible to the council to the council there's a motion that and I'll second that okay I have a motion in a second related to approving it with the planning department being the go-to group for making sure that it conforms with the area around it okay okay do I have further input or questions from I just wanted to add that in the end I think you know I I I'm in total agreement with the opponents I I know what they're looking for in their best interest of their investments in that neighborhood but Mr Morris is the one I'm going to hold accountable to because he know he's hearing everything that's being said and I know he's going to do the right thing so bottom line is hey we this is this can be a win-win make everybody happy make it compatible like we'll talk about Mr Morris please help us out at the end of the day it's you know it's going to be our vote versus

[2:06:18] what your actions are after it's all said and done so that I just want to throw that in okay Mr Silvis Mr Adams so my question is to the proponents are you happy with that motion is that motion going to work with you is that going to work to the to the opponents I'm sorry opponents yeah let the record Alicia let the record there's a it needs to be on a minute but I've requested or at this Council if y'all want to be involved in that that the council's requested or I don't care that these residents be involved in the process it was part of the part of the motion that they are involved that was part of the motion part of the motion is that the residents are involved in the process of okay but Mr farmer made the Motions let's there you go okay okay the motion uh being that the planning department oversee the construction that it is compatible with the existing neighborhood and uh this will have to come back to council for final approvals no not unless the way it would come back to council is if Miss Favre sees something that she rejects and then the proponents said we want to take that back to council okay we want to appeal your decision take it back to Canada I'm I'm fine with not having it come back to council but I know and I'll state it so that Ms father will keep the council in the loop as as working with the neighbors as well as the proponents the opponents as well so we need to specify exactly how that will happen how long how what method you need to direct us specifically on what process you would like us to answer that

[2:08:19] process being if either proponent or opponent is unhappy with your decisions they have the right to bring it back to council so you'd like us to notify for every permit that we receive application for yes wait no this permit will be issued all at once well there'll be an individual permit for every structure and so the way that you've made your motion today before they could get the permit for each individual structure they would have to bring to us the materials and the sketches and the site layout and we would have to sign off on that make it for the first one if it meets muster the rest of them are going to meet muster don't make it for each for the first one that's right if it doesn't meet the okay the mark then when you say involve the residence we have to have some mechanism by which to do that because right now that would be an internal administrative process so if you would prefer us to notify everyone in the area or something along those lines we need you to tell us that I know AJ is there anyone at this point at least as far as I know that we can't require the opponent's proponents to actually come together and and and be involved in the process but as far as volunteers to come in and perhaps meet and get those views in I know that we're talking about a win-win situation this is my and if we could do it on a volunteer basis as far as we get the input also would there be an issue with that if it's not we're not requiring them to come in and and and meet and and come to a win-win but we're saying hey as volunteers if you're willing to come forward and work with our planning department we're sure we can come up with something that'll work mind that I oversee this as my district and my profession and had I I want to make sure Mr Alexander that it's if it's remanded to staff it's staff and you're in a policy job not a management job staff is not and the ability of making everyone happy you know she works for

[2:10:22] him and we oversee him so let's leave that distinct but um you know I I also don't want this to be a vote by committee we have a planning committee we have a planning department and it's their job and we're giving her plenty of of guideline that it's supposed to be consistent with the neighborhood I think I personally think that it's incumbent on you only to allow folks to come listen come tell you here's what I think would be consistent with my neighborhood I would agree and and if they come tell you here's what I think would be consistent with my neighborhood you ought to take that into account and that ought to then move us forward so I don't think you ought to have to have a committee I don't think you'll I think that it's now incumbent on the opponents to get with you and say here's what we think would be consistent with our with our community uh and if you if if they're available you know if you make yourself available for them to tell you here's what we think would be consistent then you've taken their their uh consideration then you would be listening also to the proponents and and this thing would take its take its course so my motion and I'd like to make the statement that since it is Mr Alexander's District he certainly as a council member has the right to set in on or oversee or follow up and that he would be the person to do that no I don't have any problem there I just I'd want to the distinction that she she's the person that works is the staff person so and I'm always trying to be careful that we're not telling staff people what to do because that's not really what our job is and I'd make one more recommendation that you find one of the five uh appraisers in town that can appraise commercial and residential and get the opinion at the final is this going to hurt their values they can appraise they can look at it and say this this the way this works is going to work is not going to you don't no we can't choose the oppression okay I have a motion and I have a second I think I have Clarity for what you're supposed to do miss father

[2:12:26] can I ask one more question and we it's an hour and a half an hour and 45 minutes later we're into this thing but uh the note of the 31 notifications that was sent out uh and then the five in favor and zero opposition I know you read a couple there but is do we just involve them I mean I don't know if these folks are in that 200 yard radius or I believe everyone that stated their name was in the notification area I don't remember hearing anyone that was not okay so the the the 26 they were they were zero there were no responses no opposition uh you're going to get them involved too or I think through this public hearing they've been made aware that they can come forward yeah okay all right I have a motion in a second I'm in the call for the vote move the process forward okay what the motion is is that we we would approve this with the planning department becoming the Arbiter of what fits within the neighborhood and requesting that they listen to the opponents and the proponents before they make their decision okay and then if it's appealed it would be by the proponents and it would come back to us all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed okay I think you have one two three four five six four and one against okay so in every other case it comes to us there's a potential of this happening well if it's a con the thing that's interesting here is this isn't normal our normal process is about zoning requests this is about a special um a conditional use so we don't see these that often because most of us maybe one every two or three you know we normally see because I don't want to put you in a in a burden that we have no this I think you've this particular well I think this is the right way to do this one but we don't do this very often okay conditional use is not in front of us all that often okay I'm going to call for a break and uh move us back uh into

[2:14:31] business after that break okay

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=-iS8W-jEr4s