San Angelo City Council September 4 & 5 2012

[0:00:00] [Music] at think this time let me call the meeting to order and we'll start this morning with the prayer and pledges we are um joined here today and honored by Bishop Michael feifer of the Catholic dicese of St Angelo and he'll lead us in prayer good morning buen OAS and let us pray and let us begin with a moment of silence remembering that we're in the presence of an all loving all wise all powerful God who is our creator and our father heavenly father as your children with Jesus we praise you we bless you we thank you for the constant beautiful gifts you shower upon us spiritual material and for the greatest gift of your own son you give us the privilege and responsibility of being your co-workers in building a better world of Peace Justice and Truth guide the minds and hearts of your servants our mayor and counsel with the light of the Holy Spirit as they deliberate what is best for all the citizens of our

[0:02:04] community bless all the people of our community especially the poor and needy and all of our children protect our school children in the spirit of Labor Day we pray for all laborers and for all the unemployed that they will find a job father bring peace to our troubled World especially in Syria and father we continue to pray pray that you will pour out your heavenly Reign Upon Us bless our United Way campaign with generosity and with success and may re may we realize we are most like you when we love one another as Jesus teaches us amen [Music] I'm joined this morning by Kobe graa he's the son of Steven graa who's our our Park facilities crew leader and he's a fifth grader at buoy Elementary the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all honor the Texas flag I pledge aliance to thee Texas one State under God one and indivisible great job job [Applause] a clear loud voice and right out front so

[0:04:13] perfect we have three proclamations this morning the first one uh I would like to be joined by U the representatives from the United Way I got glasses down there they're both here okay I I'm joined today by Patty bright Ridder the president and CEO of the United Way of the cono Valley and Donna brush the the U campaign director and by m Bishop Michael feifer of the Catholic dicese of St Angelo the proclamation whereas the United Way of the cono Valley's mission is to increase the organized capacity of people to care for one another and whereas the United Way of the kcho valley has shown great initiative and enhance the quality of life in the kcho valley and whereas the United Way of the kcho valley Works tirelessly to increase awareness of the needs of people in this community and strives to assist them through the services of its 17 member agencies that provide 17 programs now therefore I Alvin new mayor of the city of St Angelo Texas on behalf of the city council do hereby declare Sunday September the 16th 2012 as a day of community prayer for the success of this year's United Way campaign in the cono Valley and urge all citizens to participate in this extraordinary humanitarian effort okay P we greatly appreciate that the bishop does is for the United Way every year and on behalf of the United Way I I always think that with the support of this community and a Little Help From Above we'll have a successful campaign thank you things always go better with God we have good workers for the United Way and as I put in our prayer today we're asking God's blessing upon this beautiful effort that helps so many many thousands

[0:06:18] of people in our community so we ask God's blessing upon this beautiful work and we thank you mayor and your councel for this Proclamation we work as if everything depends on us but pray because we know everything depends on God so thank you very much for this Proclamation and we encourage all of our people to join us on that prayer day for the success and generosity of our campaign and we thank these wonderful leaders of our United Way thank you [Music] bet my second Proclamation or our second Proclamation today is uh for the United Way of the kcho Valley's children's day it's September 15th 2012 the proclamation whereas the United Way of the kcho Valley's mission is to increase the organized capacity of people to care for one another and whereas the United Way of the kcho valley believes that children hold a special place in our lives and that raising healthy happy children is the greatest accomplishment any Community can hope to achieve and whereas the United Way of the koncho valley invokes all of the citizens of San Angelo to commit to ensuring that every child grows up in a safe and nurturing environment inclusive of opportunity love and laughter now therefore I Alvin new mayor of the city of St Angelo Texas on on behalf of the city council do hereby declare Saturday September 15th 2012 as United Way of the cono Valley's children's day and urge all citizens to participate in this celebration of children on behalf United Way We

[0:08:20] Appreciate uh mayor new and the city council uh doing this for the United Way having the proclamation for children's day and that will be our campaign kickoff and we want everyone to come out and bring the children because they are the Next Generation and if we do a good job with those and this will stay the great community that it is uh to live and work and to raise our families so we appreciate you so much and we invite all the community to come out for children's the Children's Parade on September 15th at Kirby Park thank [Applause] you we have a proclamation this morning for constitution week September the 17th through the 24th 2012 and it's to be accepted today by Shirley Dobson from the Texas Society Daughters of the American Revolution she's our district 10 director the proclamation whereas our Founders in order to secure the blessings of liberty for themselves and their posterity did ordain and establish a constitution for the United States of America and whereas it is of the greatest importance that all citizens fully understand the provisions and principles contained in the constitution in order to support preserve and defend it against all enemies and whereas the 225th Anniversary of the signing of the Constitution provides an historic opportunity for all Americans to remember the achievements of our framers of the Constitution and the rights Privileges and responsibilities they afforded Us in this unique document and whereas the independence guaranteed to American citizens whether by birth or naturalization should be celebrated by appropriate ceremonies and activities

[0:10:22] during Constitution week September the 17th through the 24th as designated by proclamation of the president president of the United States of America in accordance with public law 915 now therefore I Alvin new mayor of the city of St Angelo Texas on behalf of the city council do hereby proclaim the week of September 17th through 24th 2012 as Constitution week in the city of Stan Angelo Texas and urge all our citizens to reflect during that week on the many benefits of our Federal Constitution and the Privileges and responsibilities of American citizenship thank you welcome thank you very much for being here this morning and being able to join in with me for this exciting opportunity uh I know I've accepted the proclamation a couple of years in a row and that's been as a member of the Pocahontas chapter but this year I'm in a new position I'm still a member of Pocahontas chapter and we still do a lot of things throughout the community you might want to listen for uh radio blurs about Constitution week be some little quizes and you're not going to win a prize I'm sorry the only prize you're going to win is the fact that you know the answer and there's going to be uh some things in the newspaper too so I just appreciate the city coming out I appreciate the people that in the surrounding areas and I'm just so grateful for all of our ancestors that we had that they provided for us even as long ago as they did and I'm proud of the Huntley [Applause] [Music] for

[0:12:45] now is the time for public comment the council takes public comment on all items in the regular agenda public input on a regular agenda item will be taken at its appropriate discussion public input on an item not on the agenda or consent agenda may be identified and requested for consideration by the council at this time the council May request an item to be placed on a future agenda or for a consent agenda item to be moved to the regular agenda for public comment do I have any desires from Council Mr Mayor I need to recuse myself from item number three so however you want to deal with that two three four is a quorum without you Mr herfeld how about if you just recuse yourself that'll be fine okay is there a public comment at this time good morning Council mayor and uh staff GLE lady uh I've uh I've Been Told and I have seen sir you're out of practice you need to go ahead and say your name oh yes my oh I'm very sorry my name is Jerry C and I'm a member WTS and um I appreciate the opportunity even being here today uh there's something that that came to my attention that some people brought me some letters concerning this uh this uh uh water and so line uh there's letters that's being sent out to people in blackshire asking them to participate and I understand just excuse me just today that uh there can be scams involved in this you know and that other cities have had these problems you know

[0:14:50] St Angelo is a a very old place it's a very nice place and it's even getting better it's getting bigger you know can even jaywalk anymore but we uh we need to take we need to take a uh take a serious look at that proposal that uh that Miss grad brought up I saw that on TV because in order to prevent some of our citizens from being scammed I think the city should really be aware of what's going on and uh make their make their own proposals and have some kind of something involved in it to make sure that our citizens aren't scanned but this is a very good program and it's good for all the citizens of St Angelo especially those like me and others that don't have money to Shell out $2 or $3,000 if something happens and usually those things happen on uh u a holiday Christmas that that type of thing with a lot of family over and usage over usage um you have those emergencies people are poor or or or moderate income they can't afford to pay two or three $4,000 for somebody to come out and repair a SE line or a water line from the service point to their house they can't afford it and you have a lot of you have a lot of people that that's that's buying medicinein that's costing them as much as uh rent is a month they certainly can't afford it and on the holiday prices are double and with this insurance they can call and somebody come out and repair their service because they've been stacking up a little bit of change every every month so to to to guarantee this and this is absolutely necessary for the the people that's in the lower range of our our economy we need we we really need this and if we're going to be concerned with

[0:16:53] everybody you know s Angelo had a vision back here a few years ago and that's allinclusive government and uh to revitalize this city and if you some of you uh that haven't seen on the other side of town this is happening already and it's in a a older section of town where there's older plumbing and you have new houses and old the plumbing and more things going in on that system it's going to tax that system and we need some kind of guarantees as our city grows our areas grow and our plumbing needs to be redone it it it really does because it's very old and it's riddle and it can't take that pressure now to take some of the relief off of the the elderly and uh poor people at this time that would be a pretty good program to help everybody and I think you should really consider this and get involved with this and find out from other cities what the scams were and all of this so that you can make an informed decision and uh help some of the people that that's on the lower economic scale I certainly appreciate all of you because you've done a wonderful job St Angelo is growing I invite you to go out to uh blackshire area and see what's been done out there lately I think you're going to be surprised and it's because of all of you everybody here because of all of you you have that vision and now you can start to see this Vision working and I thank you very much and I thank God for all of you thank you I appreciate it okay thank you other public other public comment at this time okay Mr Mayor I'd like to make a motion to accept the consent agenda with the exception of item three and item seven okay you'd like to move those yes please okay I'll second that motion okay uh call for the vote then all those in favor of uh accepting the

[0:18:57] consent agenda with the remove of three and seven to the regular agenda please say I I any opposed okay item number three I'll make a motion to approve item three of the consent okay and Miss farmer question second I consideration of authorizing the sale of property uh located at 2202 Joy Road U I'll second motion to approve okay I have a Motion in a second to approve any further consideration okay call for the vote all those in favor please say I I I any opposed item number seven with reference to number seven I simply pulled it because Miss I'm sorry madam you know at this point Mr herfeld is recused uh and has not rejoined the meeting it's item number seven it is post anything that would inter he would have any possible conflict with so would be rejoining the council at this time okay item number seven consideration of appointing a counil no no that's that's what I was trying to say because Mr herfield is involved that's the reason ped it so I guess she pulled that because she's much more uh insightful than I am so number seven we'll vote on and then Mr hfield can can rejoin us this is consideration of appointing council member herfeld as a city representative to the kcho watermaster advisory committee motion to approve okay second I have a motion and a second to approve item number seven call for that vote all those in favor please say I I any opposed okay at this time then Mr may please please join us we will move forward then with item number nine on the regular agenda this is consideration of matters related Rel

[0:20:58] ated to the naming of a private Drive within the city of St Angelo it's the first public Hearing in consideration of an introduction of an ordinance repealing in its entirety U another ordinance and naming a drive um time clock Drive is that right and providing an effective date uh good morning Mr Mayor of council uh I'm going to put a flash drive in here the apparently the presentation didn't make it on to the okay folks there's a part A and A Part B so we'll listen and either take that uh into into account when a motion is made and make the motion for both parts or we'll take them individually in pieces depending on what what the data shows us okay thank you um this is a u request by uh data management systems incorporated a a uh San Anton a San Angelo company um that is expanding their operations here they have purchased the old sael building on uh loop 306 and are consolidating our operations in that building in 2005 they made a request of city council to uh name a private Drive uh time clock Drive uh it was this is a an aerial showing the location and also a uh street level view um that that request was approved no signs were ever put up uh marking the street or naming the street no addresses were ever assigned uh on that street and they in fact never moved into the building because they grew so rapidly that they outgrew that building before they ever had the opportunity to move

[0:23:00] into it so the first part of the request uh today is to repeal the ordinance uh which named that private Street as time clock Drive second part is uh they have now purchased the citel building uh located on the other side of uh uh loop 306 they have uh uh they're asking that we uh allow them to assign the name time clock drive to private drive through that property uh and they will then address their uh uh their company mailing address will be basically probably one time clock Drive uh they're doing this for marketing reasons um I'm afraid I have to defer to them that the effectiveness of it I did uh look up one other uh instance Johnson and Johnson headquarters are at one Johnson and Johnson Plaza so presumably that marketing scheme does have uh some uh amount of Effectiveness also you may have noticed in the paper this weekend uh Time Clock Plus is uh entering into a partnership with a Canadian company to combine products uh whereby their time their automated time clock uh product that they provide here will be um combined with an uh an automated entry product by the Canadian firm uh thus giving us uh a uh a a little farther reaching uh economic impact okay the uh applicants are here if there are any questions okay H how is it that we get involved in naming a private Drive uh it's basically the only procedure to to be able to do that has to come just stick up a sign and say I hereby claim this road as my road the own it the post office wouldn't uh address office that without some uh official got

[0:25:02] it Bob is there a uh is there a name to that part of the road now no sir there isn't there's no name no sir uh well I'd like to make a motion to uh approve this I mean considering the introduction or repealing of his entirety ordinance the Waring that's there now I I'll make a motion for part A I guess are we still on part A you could make a you could do both could say I want to repeal as provided in part A and add uh time clock Drive in its new location as provided in Part B exactly second can you get that I have a question uh I'm very familiar with the location um the traffic uh being that close to the entrance ramp to 306 as you come just past the credit union I mean right I mean right there where that drive is coming out is the entrance to get onto the loop have we did we study did we consider and where has Clinton asked my questions of about the traffic because that particular section the traffic already backs up all the way to college Hills with people trying to get on the loop and then on the reverse side um Wildwood they the the cut through to come around to come down Forest Trail the traffic is pretty intense and pretty heavy and I just would like to know if that was considered and what effect it has either way and Clinton just walked in I think you're on the um I I won't speak for Clinton but I I don't believe that uh uh that that that was looked at for this proposal uh being it being a an existing driveway uh and it's also Beyond What's called the gore point which is the point where traffic begins to enter the ramp so would it be any different than when SEL was there as far as traffic I wonder I mean I lived right there and I don't have a problem with it other than my concern is traffic uh it Stacks up and backs up pretty heavy at College

[0:27:08] Hills and the loop and it it can extend all the way back to college Hills when people are turning to get into sael or they'll use the Wildwood entrance to get in and they'll come out toward the loop I'm reading this carefully but I'm not sure we're on topic and so I think it's a good topic man' think that part's fine but um as I read this I think all we're doing is naming it we're not deciding recommendation from staff to name it I just want to know if they considered uh traffic right that's fair question is there a staff person that wants to answer that question I heard Mr snan say no because it was past the past the entrance point and that he they didn't consider it an issue I I I we didn't see that as the staff didn't see it as is relevant to this proposal so okay Clinton Bailey I believe is here though they entertain the issue of the naming not not location of of the drive okay okay thank you cause and effect I have a I have a motion in a second do I have public input on this item yes sir morning mayor council Chief done fire I know fire and Public Safety dispatch had some concerns over the naming of these private streets this is the we've had several of these over the last few months and it creates a lot of issues as far as responses to us when you have these uh different entities changing the names of streets and naming short little streets especially for response into Dispatch they have to get all that information correct and then uh you know what happens to this goes out of business in a year uh the next business comes in wants to rename it and you have a different street name there uh and it's not so much their deal it's just this policy in general of changing these names and

[0:29:12] and creating all these different little instances that makes it very difficult in the public safety Arena okay I understand that and I've kind of got the same concerned but really with public Street if I in the street is that baby pink if I want my opinion same issue there well Brian how do you respond to if there was an incident there the street has no name now so how is that they're but they're addressed either off Wildwood or the U the loop the loop so the same as all the rest of them there you're going to give one entity a address off one particular deal there and this basically what you're opening the door to private but with something like that couldn't you request that they remain as a 911 address if they did that that would resolve I believe any issues for Public Safety if they had their drive and their address ask them if they would be willing to just keep their 911 address as 306 and that way your police fire Happ I do not know what that does for the post office or any other things but as far as coming up in dispatch and what we would respond to I I think that would clear issues change is their 911 their mailing address and everything they could still keep as their private Drive the uh the applicants here and can respond to that uh I would point out though that um for example with the previous uh private drive it shows up on the gis as that street name so it would show up on on 911 also as that street name um and I think uh the the applicant has agreed to put up a conventional street sign at each end of the street marking that street we don't have a in s Angelou we don't have a an ordinance at this time that differentiates signage between private and public streets but uh they they have agreed that they would put up a a street signed each CH to mark that street okay Mr herfeld are you looking for an

[0:31:16] answer to your question I don't really care okay I know my answer okay okay I do I have other public input on this item all right I have a motion in a second to uh to repal the old street that never was actually put into play and to add the New Street so at this point I'll call for the vote all those in favor please say I I any opposed okay let's move to item number 10 this is the first public hearing and consideration of introduction of an ordinance authorizing the abandonment of public right of way for Smith Boulevard extending approximately 1,000 ft northward from the intersection of Smith Boulevard and McGill Boulevard in northeastern San presentation by our planning manager AJ faer we've got a number of items on the agenda this morning so um in the interest of time because I know we have a short meeting I will try to move fairly quickly through these but feel free to stop me as you have concerns about these cases on this first case this should be somewhat familiar to you regarding the abandonment of Smith bull we've had some lengthy discussions with you the no policy board the Planning Commission Howard College and several other entities regarding the campus plan for Howard which is later on in today's agenda as well as the issue of Smith Boulevard extending northward through the the existing campus and so this item will take care of uh that plan for Smith Boulevard as you might recall we have amended and updated the thoroughfare plan for the city eliminating the stretch of Smith in that plan and so today what we'll be doing is formalizing the abandonment of the stretch of Smith Boulevard and allowing it to then um as following State procedures let both halves of that street go to the adjacent property owners in this case Howard College for inclusion in their campus expansion we sent out nine notifications on this request we had one that was

[0:33:18] returned in favor to us from the applicant this is the stretch of Smith Boulevard that is the subject of today's discussion this extends Northeast from gild Boulevard and again you'll notice that it is not the entire segment of Smith and we'll look at the campus plan here in a moment but as you might recall the plans are for an extension of pauland Boulevard to be U built Northwest from Highway 277 and then for some segment of Smith Boulevard to be improved and extend Southward to the boundaries of the college the area I'm AJ let me stop you real quick before I forget one and opposition but no no no one in favor one in favor no opposition correct so again this uh cross-hatched area is the remainder of Smith Boulevard that is completely within the boundaries of the Howard um ownership tracks and the campus here's an aerial view again this area is not developed as of yet but you can see the campus as it exists today to the southeast of the uh segment of Smith Boulevard and here's just a few pictures I'll flip through very quickly to keep us moving this is looking North from McGill at that street this is looking Eastward from McGill towards 67 and this is looking West uh from Smith Boulevard towards the property the uh subject of this area in the photograph is again a segment of Smith Boulevard to be abandoned and behind that the open um V vacant area that is part of the area for expansion City staff does recommend approving the proposed straight abandonment we do have some conditions that we outlined in your staff report those conditions relate to uh request for easement that is being requested and required by the uh fire Marshall's office a site utility plan to be proposed and put together for our water utility staff and lastly uh removable ballards I think this is better explained if I go back to the photograph um with the aerial view so let me go back to this and show you exactly what that would look like so again what we're

[0:35:21] saying is that 20 ft um of this area in the crosshatch would be reserved as an easement for strictly emergency vehicle access only the concern we have uh and that the fire marshall is expressed to us is again being able to enforce and protect all of the proposed buildings now the greater master plan for this campus does show a fully improved fire lanane that would lay around the edges of the campus once that is put into place this easement will then revert back to the property owner so again this is a temporary measure put in place to to be able to expand uh the ability for fire emergency Personnel to protect the buildings as they continue to be built to the west and cross the Smith Boulevard once again once that fire lane that's fully improved is put into place this easement would revert back to the property owner the other part of that condition that was deemed important was a requirement for removable ballards to be put in place and that is to again as the campus continues to expand prevent students and other vehic traffic from using this segment of Smith Boulevard in the way that we all agreed we simply didn't want it to be used so that is the reason behind those two conditions and then of course the utility plan um as they move forward with their construction that's a very brief overview I'd be happy to delve into any more of that as you'd like question Mr Morrison Howard College you all happy with this motion to approve is presented second okay I have a motion in a second to approve is presented do I have further questions from Council okay let me just I'm s go ahead ayj Point again the 20 feet you talked about and then where the Ballers would go we're not specifying where they place that 20ft easement this ride of way as it exists today is 80 feet so it's much larger than what we actually need so we're allowing them the flexibility of placing that 20 ft wherever it's most convenient for their development okay Mr hbel you've got it written in the ordinance that it will automatically

[0:37:26] that this easement will automattic Al be canc once the full fire lane is established this easement will no longer be necessary okay so we're going to have an easement going out into to the middle of nowhere essentially it will connect to this portion of Smith Boulevard that will be constructed um as part of that discussion with Costa DC and allow Personnel um in emergency vehicle access from the north uh ver portion of Smith Boulevard through the campus so that they can reach the buildings that will be placed here and here that's the only access to those buildings at this time until that full-blown fire lanane is completed and that's part of the latter portion of the phased approach to this construction other questions okay I have a motion in a second to approve this as as U submitted is there public input on this item okay call for the vote all those in favor please say I I any opposed okay item number 11 this is the first public hearing and consideration of introduction of an ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a of the zoning ordinance of the co code of ordinances city of Stan Angelo again relating to the Howard College campus presentation by uh planning manager AJ fa thank you yes this is the second part the second piece if you will of this Howard campus expansion uh we sent out 29 notifications in reference to this request and we received one in favor zero in opposition um I'll begin by just showing some photos of the area here's the map of the area um everything that is cross-hatched would be the subject of this plan development District so again that encompasses to the southeast of Smith Boulevard the current campus as well as the proposed expansion for campus which I'll show you the plan of in just a moment to the northwest of Smith the vision plan for this area does call for an industrial I'm sorry institutional use in the blue uh where the campus currently exists as well as commercial use to the

[0:39:30] Northwest and here's some photographs again I'll flip through these very quickly this is looking at the front of the campus as it exists today uh looking Northwest at the parking lot that is accessory to that area and then this is looking northward at the area for expansion again it's completely vacant at this time this is looking East from that expansion area U at the vacant property around that some of which is zon commercial and then this is looking the opposite direction Direction Westward along that campus expansion area again largely vacant although you can see in the background to the left of the photograph the neighborhood um that is in place in that location what I'll start by doing rather than digging into this very lengthy ordinance is just to let you know that this is exactly the same as the previous proposal that we brought you back in May there are three changes um to this that make it somewhat different from that proposal the first is a condition that was written into the ordinance that there should be no obstructive fencing around or through the traffic circle which is now planned that's on the campus plan that I'll show you in a moment that has been updated again that traffic circle is where Smith Boulevard that we are building to the Campus Edge would terminate and then enter into internal parking the second change of course is that Smith Boulevard would not be extending northward through the campus and then the Third change is the concept plan that's been revised to reflect the new layout that we worked with you on and worked with Howard College on showing the main entrances for Howard College to remain along 277 as it is today and the second main entrance coming in from the north from pauland Boulevard as you might recall from the beginning that was intended to be along the south from McGill Boulevard so that change has also been made other than that the ordinance is exactly the same as we presented it to you in may we can delve into it if you have specific questions this is the revised plan that will be part of this ordinance again I call your attention to the area of change which is Smith Boulevard extending Southward to the edge of the

[0:41:34] campus terminating in the traffic circle that I mentioned a moment ago which the funnels traffic into an internal parking Network there is the ability to enter south on the McGill side although it is not set up as the main entrance for the campus and then of course you always have the two entrances along the Eastern side along Highway 277 uh before I get any further into the ordinance I'll ask if there's any specific spefic areas you have questions about or if you'd like me to proceed Mr Morrison same question Howard College is this all right with y'all then I'm going to make a motion to approve it as presented second okay I have a motion from Mr Morrison a second from Mr hfield to approve this as presented uh further questions from uh Miss fber I thought we already voted on this we have we're voting in the pieces I mean I thought we voted back in May you did but we did not finalize that ordinance because you had some concerns about Smith Boulevard running through this and so we pulled back all pieces of this campus expansion plan until the Smith Boulevard issue was res they're not going to have to come back every time they want to change the layout of a building no they're not perfect okay do I have public input on this item call for the vote all those in favor please say I I any opposed okay next item please okay the next item is zone change 1210 for gbt realy uh this is a request on which we sent 21 notifications out in reference to and we received two of those in opposition of the request those were included in your background packet again we're looking at the Northwestern segment of the city this is at the intersection of Glenna and Howard Street and here's a closer view of the property which is cross-hatched it's currently zoned RS here and again this request is to rezone that to a neighborhood commercial zoning District uh for a retail use here's an aerial photograph of the area although the aerial is from

[0:43:38] 2009 it still relatively reflects what is in and around the area to the west and to the South you can see a large residential neighborhood that's been in place as far back as 1954 and has consistently been zoned as single family residential since that time we have a church that is just CAD corner from this facility and then to the direct uh north northwest of this facility this is all federal land it is open um open space and is likely intended to always function as open space as you may know Edmund Boulevard does change names as you continue to go to the west southwest it becomes glena um further to the east it's Edmund and further east of that is 29th Street this is the vision plan map of the area it does call for this entire area to remain neighborhood which is again low family residential uh low density we also have the area that is encompassed in green which is the federal facility land that is again called for to be open space in perpetuity because this area is so difficult to see and in a closer view we have also given you a bird's eye view of the zoning and the uh Vision map in this area this is another excerpt from the vision map uh one of the things I'll draw to your attention here is you can see that further to the east there there are specific areas called for commercial to the South along Howard we do have a number of neighborhood intersections where we call for neighborhood commercial these are nodes of commercial as you see and as you're used to us discussing U particularly most recently in the discussion of the fire station rezoning here is a bird's eye view of the actual zoning in this area again mostly the pale yellow which is the single family residential although again there are opportunities for commercial use as they're already established commercial nodes running South along Howard as you go further along to the Southwest along glena there's a large commercial Corridor and then also to the east um and far south there are also opportunities for commercial development

[0:45:43] this map shows the uh two letters and opposition to this request and where those property owners own property and they are both immediately adjacent to the site one across the alley one directly across Howard Street just a few photographs this is looking North from that subject property at the federal land that I pointed out on the map just a moment ago and here is the church that I referenced it's important to note that this neighborhood that I mentioned at the beginning of the presentation actually continues back behind this church and opens up into another swath of residential zoning so it is one of the two most large uh two largest rather residential areas in the city this is looking East from the subject property at that neighborhood this is looking across Howard Street and this is looking south from GLA at the subject property which would appear in the foreground the background of course being that line of houses that opens that neighborhood um one of the letters in opposition again was just across this Alleyway and then that lastly this is looking west from the subject property uh at Glenna as Glenna continues around to connect with Loop 306 again the immediate vicinity around this area is largely single family residential although the subject CCT is currently Zone 42 family residential it is the only rs2 District in this immediate area again the predominant zoning in the area has existed since 1954 so it's a very established residential Enclave in your background report we pointed out some of the excerts from the comprehensive plan which talk about the importance of transitions that are appropriate between commercial and residential uses and the need of buffers to uh help cushion those transitions our basis for recommendation and looking at this request um it is inconsistent with the vision plan map for the area which again calls for residential this is a commercial type of use which would not be consistent with that type of of usage uh we also have had discussions in the past regarding spot zoning and that would be another opportunity to talk about that in this particular request as

[0:47:46] it is again beneficial of a single parcel without taking account the comprehensive plan and vision plan map for the area we also pointed out to you in your background report that our ordinance requires that we Zone compatibly with our plans and policies and again our plan for this area calls for that to be and remain residential and we can answer some more questions about spot zoning if we have time or if you need us to get into that so in short we took the analysis and the criteria that are laid out in the ordinance and compared each of those to this request and found that in all areas it was incompatible with the intent of the zoning ordinance our comprehensive plan our vision plan map the existing neighborhood Etc there are already many opportunities for neighborhood commercial usage in and around the area and then of course we always have the concern and I think that was reflected in the two letters of opposition about the types of effects that it would have on the neighborhood in terms of practicality traffic trash those were the things that the residents were primarily um concerned about it is important to look at the zoning history at this location this has been a u very very um divisive property there have been a number of requests for zoning on this property in the past that have been denied and resulted in great Community input um three denials that we've listed and talked about in our background report are number one there was a request for rezoning for apartments to be placed on this property there was a request for a gas station yes sir um so Apartments would be more intensive it was to two family so it's kind of zon for duplexes or something like that so Apartments is actually more intensive than what would be put there although it is less intensive than what today's request is for um gas station is another type of commercial that was proposed at this property and then an auto repair shop um was proposed just to block south of here and all three of those items were denied uh by the city council and we had a large amount of public input more than we did in this particular case but it was a very um

[0:49:50] very divisive again type of discussion about what should happen at this intersection so keep that in mind um planning staff does recommend denial of the request for many reasons that we've outlined in the presentation but have gone more into detail about in your staff report the Planning Commission did recently hear this request at their most recent meeting they REM recommended approval of the request by a vote of three to one we had only four members and attendance at that meeting and so with that I'll be happy to answer any questions that you might have about the request are we walking me through what we're I know it's across the street but I think it can you go back to the map sure it's across the street but it's speaks to the spot zoning that you're talking about isn't the church supposed to be zoned differently than residential uh churches are since 2000 allowed in residential districts U by terms of a conditional use there is an excert of the zoning ordinance that states that if such a use was in place in 2000 it is since granted a conditional use so it is a lawful use um I thought it was lawful I just wondering about when you talk about spot zoning if we're talking about that area shouldn't we be talking about changing that church consistently with what we did with Glenn mows and and others that's why I'm I'm just wondering why it's not part of this discussion if we're talking about zoning in that area but okay which map specifically Mr harfield back to the one back you were close the yellow yep yellow one more okay what's the pink represent that is neighborhood commercial which is what is asked for today in this request these are areas that are already Z let me just make sure that I'd understand this we're looking at denying them the ability to put a Dollar General Dollar General correct that's what I read I believe that's correct a Dollar General on the corner of Howard and here Edmund I guess it would be Edmund Junius right there in that area however they could go down to the old picking pack down there on Greenwood

[0:51:54] and Howard and build one right there right in the middle of all the Neighborhood Housing am I correct correct because the zoning is currently allowing for that now personally I think this location is by far better suited for traffic to have that as opposed to right there is that a fair assessment I don't think it is simply because again we have a plan to follow and there's no point in having a plan if we overrule it every time we use our own personal judgment question no I disagree with you you do yes again we have in our comprehensive Plan called for nodes at very specific intersections this intersection is not one of those there were reasons I'm sorry Greenwood Street down there well again it's already zoned for that regardless of what we are looking for in the future here's the actual zoning of that property it currently exists today so when the comprehensive plan was done in in 2009 one of the directives that the council gave staff was to try did not create non-conformities if there are already commercial areas existing then let's continue to treat them as commercial so regardless of whether that is something that planning principles would lead us to because there were already commercial zoning uh pockets in this area we were told to go ahead and keep those in order to eliminate non-conformities I don't think that we would reach those same conclusions today but again the preference was given to us and we acted accordingly in drawing this plan got base the on based upon um our vision plan and the input of the citizens in that area and what the intended purpose for the property use would be taking into consideration the amount of traffic on that particular street especially um on the weekends when there are soccer games going on I don't I I can't agree with that I can't agree with the zoning change and so I'd like to make a motion to deny and I will second that okay we have a motion uh to deny

[0:53:58] item 12 as presented and to deny the the zoning change request Is there further question or comment from Council yes Mr Morrison and I am this is in my district and I'm very familiar with this area and I noticed that Wayne Maxwell and his wife were in favor of it so I apologize to them but this is not a good fit for this area there is so much traffic on this portion of Edmund Boulevard and it's too there's no parking it's this is not a good mix at all for this area and I'm with Fred on this this needs to be denied other input from Council Mr silvas AJ I guess the only question I had was you know on the notifications the two that were in opposition what what were they what what what were their opposing what were their reasoning I never saw it one of the notifications and opposition um left the comments that they did not need or want a business on this busy Corner uh years ago the owner tried several times for a zone change they're referring to the gas station and the apartment cases that I mentioned earlier uh the uses were turned down every time uh finally finally to pacifies what this says the zoning board changed it to a two family residential and the owner was told not to request another change um and so that was their rationale was that the two two family residential was as intensive as they wanted to see till death do us part the other letter in opposition says somewhat difficult to read but it says I'm against any type of business at this location the traffic is already terrible I can't make out the next sentence and that's since they've talked to to several people um and they agree that they do not not want to see anything happen at that location that would be intensive and I'm afraid that's all I read when when I first read this the first thing I thought about was traffic I mean it just do you have any idea what the traffic count along there is I don't

[0:56:01] I don't know if Mr and you don't you don't have to look it up but I'm just I'm guessing in the you know 20 30,000 I would imagine but that's nicker bucker Road 26,000 is nicker bucker Road anyway there's a lot of traffic so yes sir okay okay Mr I'm Sorry Miss farmer that's okay people make that mistake well I thought he I thought he was asking for he was ask exactly the the location uh there is a lot of traffic a lot of traffic and but I'm all for you know a business and a Dollar General you know in the area but doesn't Dollar General sell alcohol wine and beer I don't know I've never seen that in there but I think they do and I it's just so close to the soccer fields and stuff I'm kind of on the fence okay I I I do have one concern here I mean that we're talking about denying this but I mean when we're talking about the concern is all the traffic what else are they going to do with this this lot's been vacant for oh I don't know at least 50 years 50 years I mean since I've been driving by it well 47 since I've been driving by it but the likelihood that they're going to build houses right there facing on junior street Bingo well and people wouldn't want to they're gonna say I don't want to buy the house because of the traffic right I don't necessarily disagree with you there's that I I feel like we are uh hamstringing now I mean they had this lot probably or this you know this whole development was out there before uh Junius and Edmund you know tied in back there behind the by the dam and I just I don't know what else they can do there since they can't have anything commercial they can't do anything of that magnitude and the likelihood that people are going to

[0:58:03] build a house there I would say is relatively thin yeah I don't think that's right for the owners okay well I'm um I'm in agreement generally with your position is there other Council input is there public input on this item okay well y'all come on up to the front so that one can speak and then the other can speak and may if I might miss former Dollar General did file for a petition to start selling alcohol Craig Myers WT yes sir um several things that have come up not everybody makes good Investments if I buy a piece of property thinking that it's going to be used in one way there's no guarantee that I have to revamp the whole area around it to make sure that I'm successful uh it's a lot harder to undo things than it is to do things and uh with the neighborhood revitalization we have found that we have this spot zoning all the way through and uh the city and Rio Vista black sheer uh who would have thought that a junkyard in a residential area would have caused anybody any trouble in the residential area well the darn sure did and some of us spent about a 100 hours sweating building a fence that somebody else should have built because they allowed this in there and as you look at the people I'm concerned about are not the folks are worrying about the traffic the the people along that Alleyway that back up with their residences to what will bring people in who will throw trash over the uh chain link fence you know that will blow into their yard it will lower the property value of everybody along that southern or Western perimeter uh so I think that we're dealing with undoing a whole bunch of spot zoning that's occurred to protect the property rights of individuals

[1:00:07] particularly in a commercial way and while we want to encourage commercial stuff uh there's no guarantee that you're going to make money on buying some property that stays vacant a long time there is a guarantee if you put up a Dollar General that's going to back up to that area it's going to cause a nuisance value that's going to lower the property value of every house that adjoins it so thank you okay thank you sir yes my name is Terry Cowan I'm with John Cowan and Associates out of Tyler and we're a land surveying company and we are the spokesman I guess you would say for gbt realy we've surveyed uh 85 to 90 of the stores that they've built in Texas over the last 3 years years um and uh you think well why someone from Tyler here in San Angelo but they're in Nashville Tennessee and so it's easier for us to do it and we're closer on the ground than than they are but um I understand the concerns um about the comprehensive plan I understand concerns about spot zoning I serve on a Planning and Zoning commission back home and um I would argue that this is this is on the edge of a district District it's not in the middle of a district and and but I do understand those concerns um a lot of this was addressed at the at the pnz hearing I was here two weeks ago for that and um um and the commission was their concerns there were true there were only four members there but three of them their concerns were addressed and and they felt like going ahead with recommending the the zone change I I know that when you change change zoning it doesn't really matter what's going on that track of land because you're not if you Zone it commercial then it could be commercial for anything so I understand that but let me tell you a

[1:02:10] little about this what I know about this company and I've had about three years working for them they are not an investment company that buys and sells real estate and then turns it for profit in that way they do one thing they build dollar generals and they do not buy the tract until they've got it all set in place where they can put a Dollar General and then they have a set Dollar General design that they use and it conforms with the particular codes of the municipality that they're building in in my own town um we had a restriction that the building had to be 75% masonary and so um they um and they they didn't like it but they conformed with it and before it's all over with they bricked up the whole building because if they were going to do 75% they might as well do 100% so we have a the Dollar General in our town is completely bricked up and you don't see that often I understand that but I'm just saying that they this is what they do the their design is um uh like say the trash uh for example they have specific canisters these huge things that all their trash goes in and I have seen like I say 85 to 90 of these all of them are behind walls they'll either build a stone wall or a board wall or some kind of wall that hides the their uh dumpsters from public View and so they're not just sitting out there with open um trash exposed um I have seen the I understand the traffic concerns I've seen their PL for this site there would be no access on to Glenna the access would be on to Howard I don't know that you all know the traffic problems there better than I do but there would be no access onto that busy street it would all be to the east the building would face the East it

[1:04:13] would face uh Howard Street um they plan to partially in the design that I've seen the alleyway will be partially paved they will it's just a Gra alley now so their plans are to uh pave uh a good portion of that Alleyway um you had mentioned uh about beer and wine sales I've never seen beer and wine sold in a Dollar General I don't think they do that I'm I I've never seen it uh I I have a answer to that they did file for a TABC license in 2010 and 2011 did they yes sir okay well generally it's not done I just don't I don't know what the specific situation is here um that that would be a separate issue obviously um but um that's generally not what people go to into a Dollar General to buy uh it's usually household items that sort of thing and just generally speaking I have seen uh the these buildings built all across the state and and I would say that that they uh that the communities that they're in the people the neighbors appreciate having that store there I know in my little town we use it you know rather than going to the big store it's so much more convenient just to go down the street to the Dollar General and so uh neighbor it's a neighborhood thing and so I don't I understand the concerns I don't see it as a detriment to the the neighborhood and I'm just not I don't know about the traffic concerns and that's another issue which I can't address but if there's any questions anyone would like to ask me that's that's uh basically all I had to say okay thank you very much sir thank you any further public input on this item okay I have a motion and a second to deny this as it is presented so let

[1:06:17] me call for that vote all those in favor of denial please say I I I and those that uh oppose denial please say Nay Nay Nay okay I think I'm hearing a 43 okay the the the eyes the eyes the eyes are Miss farmer I'm confused that's what you pay me for the eyes are Miss farmer Mr Adams Mr Morrison Mr silvas the Nays are Mr Alexander Mr herfeld and myself okay let's okay I'm pushing us trying to get us through by noon but let's go to a short break and then come back and start on number 13 let's call the meeting back to order and move to item number 13 this is a a first public Hearing in consideration of introduction of an ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a of the code of ordinances uh Su 12-01 concerning Daryl Presley uh presentation by planning manager AJ fber good morning thank you this request is for a special use the special use if approved would allow for a Firearms range uh in a General commercial heavy commercial or a cgc zoning district there were 43 notifications sent out on this request we received three in favor one in opposition I'll show you where those came from in just a moment again we're looking at uh West Central St Angelo we are just south of West Bard Avenue and just east of South Pierce Street also just south of Houston heart Expressway and Sherwood Way here is the subject property as you may recall this is part of a shopping center which we'll see in the aerial photograph here um we did consider the lots for which this use would sit upon and sent notifications to the remainder of the shopping center as well as the 200t notification

[1:08:20] area the vision plan map for this area calls for a neighborhood center that is conducive to some types of commercial usage however the current zoning is cgc which is a very intensive zoning district and the zoning in this request is not proposed to be changed it is simply a special use added to the underlying zoning this is looking North uh down Pierce Street the shopping center in question is here to the right this is looking Westward down Bard Street again the subject property is off to the right across the left on the other side of the street is another strip center and you see that sort of development as well as some neighborhood development in the area this is the subject property the Outdoorsman is a current store that is in place at this location and the location that is vacant to the immediate right of that property or left if you're looking at it from this view is the proposed location of This indoor gun range so it would operate again in tandem with the Outdoorsman that has been in place there for some time this is looking East the opposite direction down Bard Avenue again you see that strip type of development I mentioned earlier there is uh an apartment development here in this location the one letter of opposition that we received was from one of the tenants not the owner but one of the tenants of uh this apartment complex and looking at the criteria for a special use the overriding um sort of point of the ordinance is to look at transitions to see if there's any necessary um impacts and if there's ways to mitigate those impacts so we'll talk about how that's planned to be done with this there are some limitations built into the zoning uh ordinance for firearms ranges they are not allowed by right uh in any zoning district and outside of the manufacturing zoning districts there are specific use standards which apply to this location as well the nature of the property again it's part of a large strip development there is a vacancy in this location which the applicant proposes to fill with this uh proposed use it is part of a larger commercial

[1:10:22] Corridor and it does comply with uh theor Neighborhood Center concept of the plan it's something much less intensive than a typical cgc type of development which would Encompass many things that would be allowed legally but would not be consistent with the vision plan also it's important to note that there is a good traffic circulation system in place at this location there are a number of streets and intersections by which to funnel the traffic that could be generated by this section 408 of the zoning ordinance lays out the specific use standards that will apply to this those specific use standards are twofold one that the sound cannot emanate outside the property boundaries and that it must be completely enclosed uh we do have the applicant in attendance and he can talk to you a little more intelligently than I can about the sound mitigation measures that he is uh proposing however planning staff does recommend approval of the special use as presented again subject to the specific use standards that are already outlined in the zoning ordinance and the Planning Commission at their most recent meeting uh unanimously recommended approving the proposed special use by a vote of four to zero and i' be happy to answer any questions that you might have on the request questions motion to approve motion to approve second I got a second from Mr herfeld uh meat you to the punch there a little bit but anyway I've got a motion from Mr Adams a second from Mr hfield to approve as presented do I have further questions from coun I have one Mr AJ and maybe the applicant how is this how is the sound going to I think I'll have him talk about that he's he's more knowledgeable and what kind of guns are we talking about or yes my name is Daryl Presley and and U you I am planning on allowing um rifles and handguns um but probably will limit the certain size rifles because you know some of them have enough report and enough blast you start you know blowing light fixtures out of the out of the apartment out of the out of the building there but um sound abatement will be achieved by basically by thickening the walls with um uh sound abatement material which you know I'm probably going to use a a material similar to uh

[1:12:25] celotex which is a fiber material followed by a layer of sheetrock or gypsum and another layer of the celotex and another layer of sheetrock um it's um it you know density seems to be what keeps sound from moving you know through uh you know through walls and presently the walls are cinder block walls so uh a few years ago we did some testing and when we were looking at you know turning that place into a range anyway and fired BL lanks in one and listen on the other side and you know sound did come through it but uh you we could also hear sound coming through the walls when it was a movie theater um but uh you certainly is is is one of the considerations between uh my facility and the Salvation Army home store and my facility and the Outdoorsman you know but uh you know if if uh it it won't be through until it's quiet Mr Presley do you have any other locations such as this one or no no there there are no other uh indoor ranges uh in the area I think the closest one is abene okay other questions just I have one uh would does the is the state going to are there any state regulations that you're going to have to follow in order to uh make sure that the range is safe in order to make sure that uh sound is is is dealt with I'm I'm not aware of any state regulations you know dealing with indoor ranges I do know the uh the EPA and OSHA have some considerations about lead primarily but not not sound okay other questions I have one last one you've already made modifications to the building or you I have not okay I have not I I the last time I was in there was a long time ago I didn't think it was that big but maybe well there there were two movie theaters one facing the rear one facing the front and the the projection rooms bathrooms in the middle uh my range will be the rear portion of

[1:14:29] the movie theater which was uh the larger of the two theaters um basically it's it's primarily going to be a handgun range because about the most I'm going to be able to get out of is 15 yards um but the the front half of it will be a place for classes for uh meeting rooms for retail the um uh the front half of it of the it almost the same size as the the retail area of the Outdoorsman as far as the depth goes but it's not as wide I thought you said we're going to get a movie and a handgun range but no no that's okay sorry no no yeah no no movie and handgun range just it be handgun range and Retail but it it was originally a movie theater that'll work one other question will you seal Firearms yes I will okay well it is my I had thought at first that I probably would not you know because I I presently work at the outdoors and have for over 20 years but uh which is right next door and I don't want to be in competition it'll be a symbiotic relationship between us uh between the range and the the the retail outlet there uh but in that we will probably have to have different hours uh you know I will uh probably end up you know also selling Firearms yes firearms and ammunition okay now my question AJ then if he's selling firearms and ammunition will we have to do a different zoning or we will we be good with the no retail uses and as well as the meeting space that he's talking to are both allowed uses in this zoning District okay okay I have a motion in a second to approve I think we've asked the questions do I have other public input on this item okay let me call for this vote then all those in favor please say I I any opposed okay item number 14 this is the first public Hearing in consideration of the Planning Commission recommendation modifying a request for a zone change from two family residential

[1:16:33] to General commercial alternatively recommending a zone change from two family residential to Neighborhood commercial with an introduction of an ordinance uh this is concern concerning item z12- 09 Donald Bradley presentation by our planning manager AJ fber thank you I will explain briefly the change in the proposed Z Zing um the application was for commercial zoning which is a zoning District um I'm sorry a zoning use category in our ordinance that allows for the rental or um sale of parking spaces or leasing of parking spaces the actual request in this um case after talking further with the applicant is actually for parking accessory to a business and so we found um in talking at the Planning Commission level that a CN District would be more conducive for the neighborhood around it but would also allow the applicant to have parking accessory to his business which was the intent of the original request there were 19 notifications sent out in regards to this request we received five in favor and zero in opposition this is just North of the Houston heart Expressway and just west of the intersection of West 11th Street uh in chadburn Street which we'll zoom in and look at here let me pull up the aerial the business in question Spradley Custom Designs is the building shown here on lot one and two the uh subject request is this cross-hatched lot here in the aerial from 2009 it shows a house on the site that house has actually been demolished and is no longer in place there there is however an accessory building um in place that the applicant would like to have remain there the intent for this again is to pave a parking lot that would provide parking spaces for individuals that are patrons of this business on Lots one and two um these need for parking is not necessarily a present day use but Mr Spradley is thinking about the marketability of the property in the future and the fact that we do have required off street parking standards uh

[1:18:35] in this location as you can see the building is actually built completely out to the property lines so there are no remedies for parking to take place on those lots um he does actually own lot three and lot four so if this was approved it would allow the use of those two lots both to conversion for parking the Vision plan map excert shown here calls for commercial at this location so it is um a zone change that would be consistent with the comprehensive plan this is a map showing the notifications that were received in favor all of the areas in Green wrode in in favor of this request and after we sent out your background reports we did receive a third notification in favor of the request that occupies um Lots 1 through seven here at the top of the map so they were also in favor just a few pictures this is looking East on 11th Street this is looking down into the neighborhood which is just adjacent to this Corridor of chadburn Street and this is looking directly at the subject property again as you can see the house has been removed and there is an accessory structure um that is current at that location there is some parking that is already taking place on lot three that is allowed um but again the um lot four is the subject of today's request here is some other parking along the uh south side of the building but as you can see it is largely in the ride of way so that is a hazard and then lastly this is looking the opposite direction down 11th Street and there is on the other side of the chadburn corridor another residential neighborhood in place at that location so in looking at the analysis of this request again the intent being to allow accessory parking we really had to look at the building in question and there are an important component components to think about one being the again proximity to the neighborhood CN is the least intensive commercial classification that we have so it is both consistent with the vision plan and it is also the least intensive and intrusive for neighborhoods and also we had to think about infill development as we try to encourage developers to move into existing buildings rather than

[1:20:37] moving outwards and building new buildings we have to think about the opportunities there and if there is no ability for off street parking then it could render this building vacant at some point in the future um because this lot is not being used presently and because it is consistent with our planning processes we do feel that it's a good location for such a use CN keep in mind would also allow things of a retail nature so if he wanted to have an expansion of his business although that's not planned that could also be a use of that location there is a lack of parking in the area of course you all know chadburn Street in that Corridor very well there really isn't um great locations for on street parking along that Corridor so that traffic has to move elsewhere um and we do see some parking and do hear complaints somewhat routinely of parking further back in those res residential neighborhoods so this would also help alleviate that with that planning staff does recommend approval of the proposed zone change to CN again less intensive than the original request actually was but still allows the applicant what he needs and the Planning Commission um did recommend modifying this to the CN zoning and they did recommend approval of it by a unanimous vote of four to zero and if you have any questions we can review those Mr Morrison motion to approve is presented second Motion in a second to approve as presented so not modifying to the neighborhood commercial but as CN CN we are presenting it as CN a change to ZN got it okay I wasn't following you well okay so we have a motion and a second to approve as submitted it will be become a neighborhood commercial not ready I have a question question yes sir yeah okay uh questions okay um already I I noticed on one of the uh pictures that you showed us that uh parking is already taking place on the property and this may be a dumb question but I'm I'm assuming that um once this this this passes that the parking lot will then be will be paved it'll be an

[1:22:40] improved surface it's a sequential question it really depends on what happens with the building as of right now because the building's already occupied and they're only occupying a small portion of it they have the required parking but that's a very large building and tenants start to come in as each tenant came in for their permitting they would have to add their share of the parking requirements and at that time it would have to be paved so lot a lot of that is largely dependent on when other tenants move into this building Mr silvas heyj I noticed on the map you're talking about Lots four and five is that right three and four three and four okay what lot five is that did I see that as parking already or they already have um or had when we went out and took pictures here it is um some cars parked on that lot however this lot is already Zone commercials so it's allowed for them to do that but that's four right there we're talking about this is for the subject of their request so there's parking going on in the adjacent correct okay and when would when would Paving be M farmer I'm oh I'm sorry I didn't look that way I forgive me Charlotte yes I need you were forgiven my son my question was to the motion are motion to approve or motion to modify it's a motion to approve because it has been modified okay to approve it is CN approve is presented which that's that's where I was Miss farmer but it it has been modified to Neighborhood commercial that's the motion Mr Adams my only my only can let me just make sure I understand it I understand that we need to parking in order to keep the business in in in the community and I agree with that I understand it now the business B based on the business that they're doing they already have the parking that they need my only concern is that we'll have a lot of parking on this property behind the business and it's not paved I'm concerned you know once we start getting rain um you know how is that going to affect the neighborhood around that

[1:24:44] piece of property since it's not in since it's not improved that's my only concern the the trigger if you will for um having that pavement put down on this location would be the certificate of occupancy for any additional businesses so before they could occupy and open and have all of all of their permits in order they would be required to have the appropriate amount of paveed parking for that business that configuration could take a number of shapes because it's such a large building and you could split it up in a million different ways but as people continue to come and fill up this building each one will be required to carry an additional parking burden with it and it has to be paved in order to get their certificate of OCC occupy okay okay do I have public input on this item further questions from Council call for the vote all those in favor of um approving this as presented please say I I any opposed item number 15 M May yes ma'am go ahead I was going to it's a quarter till 11: and I know there's some folks out there that are interested in the uh drought 3 disc discussion or possible us implementing it so I didn't know if we could move that item up in the essence of time but it's it looks like we're moving right along with these it but they are kind of starting to slow us down a little bit so if we wish to be out here by noon I'd like to uh uh request maybe okay is that also your request I just wanted to pose the question to the council if they had any objection to moving 19 up to get these folks uh to hear that that's the same thing myself okay could we move 19 up could we have a show of hands of who's here for 19 okay um is Will here yeah hang on just a second please if you don't mind let's let's bring on

[1:26:47] let's we just finished 14 correct right okay let's do 15 and then go to 19 and that way we have all of these Z all these zoning things are knocked out okay and then I won't bring up I I won't bring up the budget and those matters until I'll bring up the uh drought three discussion next and then I'll take us to the budget matters okay fair enough okay I'll make this one very short for you this is um this is a request to abandon an alley again this is a bit of housekeeping for us um the property owner in trying to transact property was made aware that this segment of alleyway was never formally abandoned through the city and so we're simply trying to finalize that so they can move forward with their property transaction it appears that all intents were to abandon the segment of property um but it was never officially finalized and so we're simply asking you to do that today there's no utility issues with the property and we recommend approval of it as did the Planning Commission this is an alley going to nowhere I make the motion to approve second second just just one question the yes sir there's a lot of Roads Motion in second one two one two I and stuff around that all that's already been abandoned correct okay all right this just that was that was back in the original plans back in the 20s when Lake View subdivision was first designed there was supposed to be a round Road there and everything spokes all going into it this is just an alley leading into the old lake so but this is the last segment of that in this location and I believe in the whole subdivision back in the 20s and I think you made the motion right I did make the motion back in the 20s okay yeah I second it okay further questions from Council uh any uh public input on this item would someone please put the lake back in Lake View yeah please okay call for the vote all those in favor please say I I any

[1:28:52] opposed okay let's move to 19 then and so I'll have 16 17 18 uh to go back to I'm sure just for coun for Council um I am sure that there's some budget items that have to be done today right yes okay so and our tax rate too that's what I'm saying the tax rate specifically so let's just bear that in mind whatever what order whatever order we do we're going to keep track of time it's 10 till so but whatever order we take we have to be done by a certain time if we can be and but we have to get the items done item number 19 this is the discussion and possible action to adopt a resolution implementing drought level three of the city's water conservation and drought contingency plan and presentation by our water utilities director will wiy uh with August behind us now uh unfortunately we don't have any good news to bring you as far as our water supply we didn't see any significant rains of any kind during August that would a produced run off to the lake so they do continue to go down uh very briefly we looked at the supplies this morning in comparison to where we would uh be in relation ship to our overall water supply we're still at this point just above that 12mon Supply so as of today we don't uh meet the trigger points for entering drought stage level three but we are heading that away very quick uh as a result of the extreme heat we've been seeing the last several weeks and and as we said have no runoff coming in The Lakes so uh as of today we do not qualify for the the trigger points for draft level three well one of the things that we talked about at the last council meeting was uh approving moving to Drought stage three uh in advance of the effective date and in preparing for that uh did you find anything that would uh restrict our ability to do that yes it's not permissible under our own guidelines our own guidelines state that the the uh water utilities director

[1:30:55] upon entering the stage will then inform uh Council Council will then resolve we notify the public so we have to be in the stage and at that point we can take action it cannot be done uh by based on prediction okay let me see if I can restate that so that I understand it we can't uh prospectively apply drought stage three we must be in it declare that we're in it uh before it has its effect yes okay councilman herfeld what I've done is asked staff to prepare as a standing item the resolution moving to Drought stage three uh to be on the agendas from this point moving forward so that uh while we can't prospectively move to Drought stage three it does give notice to all who are watching that we will jump into it as soon as uh we can and that we are awaiting that date uh I know that's not strictly um in compliance with what your request was at the last meeting and what ended up I think being the consensus of council but uh with that was the the closest we could come to fulfillment of that request uh with that said I mean so I realize we can't enact we can't put any of that into effect uh but on the item we could have a discussion as we have a good number of people here that would like to discuss and about possible action of when we when we do get there so that we at least got some ideas of what we may want to do correct can I do that we do that well it says discussion let's Okay says discussion and possible action so I I think that uh we're we're very much yeah we're very

[1:32:58] much in in play because it says discussion and it says to adopt a resolution implementing drought level three so as long as people that come up are talking about you know here's the way the ordinance reads about drought level three and here's what I'm concerned about in that drought level three designation as long as we stay on that topic then we're in a great place and so that's what I'll ask the audience to do and we will be informed about your con concerns and thoughts and that'll all be healthy for Council we won't be taking action we we won't be able to take action according to what we just heard Mr Alexander okay will when you're calculating the 12-month Point are you calculating in Hickory water that should start flowing say June is that part of the calculation or is that at this point in time it's not because the ordinance States it's on our developed Water Resources those that we have available to us at this point in time that we could in essence turn on the faucet and it would be there for us when we hit that point next year then we can take that into consideration okay just just to be clear he's not calculating in the Hickory and so when he says we have 12 months left say in a month or two weeks from from right now really we have more than 12 months left because we have water that will be coming in from the Hickory befor if we blend it prospectively right right and and it may we need to choose our ratio in understanding what that means but I understand you I appreciate you but I want to look at it that way and and I also want to discuss pools and car washes I mean this okay okay get after it I was not understanding what you were doing I'm sorry can we well by by chance let's just kind of step back one second do you by chance happen to have uh the drop contingency plan that we can look at okay I mean something they can pull up there or know I think I think part of what he's wanting is for everyone including okay but I think what he's wanting in is for everyone including the

[1:35:02] audience to kind of see what see what drought level three contingencies are I was going to say that slick uh I I guess what what I was hoping to see is that we could see you know literally the step of drought level three you know there's the list of items that we have and if we could just go through those because I think that's what people want to talk about and what we all need to discuss okay now hang on a second is that going to take care of you where you could it's going to bring up the I'm asking problem Big Boy the problem that the ordinance presents to us and people's jobs out there how much water we're actually using or trying to save by if each piece comes up you could weigh in on those things you were talking about because I heard right so you could weigh in all right let's let's follow that practice and see if it doesn't get us where we're trying to go okay is that big enough sure perfect that's what I wanted to see okay Mr Wy how about if you just walk us through drought level three right now according to the presentations you've made like at the water Forum the other evening you're you're saying that with no inflows that would be sometime in October probably around the 1st of October so so if it happens October the 1st or around the 1st of October you would then come back according to what we just heard you would then come back and say we are in drought level three we need to move forward with these these items but is that correct that's right yeah we would bring the resolution for actual adoption by the council then and then I think what everyone is trying to do now is to make sure we have good interchange with the public and each other about what drought level three is and that we discuss the items as we move through them and and go from there so so just take us through them and and folks

[1:37:06] let's the best I can I'll be swiveling my head but let's have a productive time of this and I'll I'll acknowledge and we'll we'll have a good discussion okay once we enter draft level three then uh some of the additional criteria that would become effective in addition to those that are in place place right now is first is the use of city water whether it's the treated City water or raw City water from the lakes of rivers uh for watering of gardens landscape areas trees golf courses shrubs any type of plants being growing Outdoors is prohibited uh so that's that's the first major change of any kind of really landscape watering is prohibited the only exemption to that provision is the council can allow hand watering of trees and building foundations uh on a certain day in certain schedules as a council may see fit other than that all outside watering is prohibited will let me ask you go start tell me again what I mean what month level of water do we have now you said what right now I would I would say we've got 13 months and how do you determine that I mean what how do you know I mean it's based upon what we have available from all of our sources which are OHV Reservoir and our local lakes twin buts and Lake NZ at this point in time time OH Ivy Reservoir is projected to be able to supply 12.2 million gallons of water today to us through June of next year at that point in time it'll be low below the intake pumping level for the reservoir so at that point in time then all we had available is our local supplies and utilizing those then at about a 9 million gallon per day usage rate uh we would deplete all sources by October of next year then but you have folks that the me measuring levels is that and then they give them to you or yes as far as the lake levels are monitored DA they are okay okay further questions on this Autumn or further thoughts Mr Alexander this a anything there well I I wouldn't mind maybe going through kind of them

[1:39:08] then we okay so You' like to see a little bit of an overview and then come back to the pieces that's what I would like to see is that okay with everyone okay let's go through an overview and then we'll go back to the pieces uh the second provision uh the use of City wall for the filling refilling or maintenance of any type of a fountain ornamental type fountains or swimming pools is prohibited so the filling or refilling of a swimming pool would be prohibited in draft level three the next one uh is item C that deals with washing of cars uh washing of cars would be prohibited except though in those cases uh to kind of summarize those needed for public safety for health reasons uh that the city uh helped Department director uh would qualify the washing of those type Vehicles other than that all the car washing would also be prohibited after that then there is the additional SE charges uh that would be applied uh to all Water customer type accounts uh for single family residential counts an additional fee above the basic charges uh for usage of $6 per th000 gallons will be assessed for all usage over 10,000 gallons uh for apartment units uh the multif family type an additional fee of $5 per 1,000 gallons for over 3,000 gallon applied to each unit within that complex and filing then a fee of $2.50 per th000 additional uh per 1,000 gallons applied to all other accounts use okay continue uh beyond that then uh if there there are any exceptions uh that the council will grant there are Provisions within the ordinance that get into uh the exception of variances that the city May the council may receive concerning any any of these requirements with that said I mean if we enact let's just know the boundaries of what we can and can't do based upon the current law uh if there if we wanted to add exceptions or add variances or add

[1:41:13] delays on certain triggers um would we be allowed to do that we'd have to enact an ordinance uh amending this ordinance with two readings but there's nothing um impermissible under state law I've already researched that uh we do we are the owners of our plan okay so all right could you roll the exemption and variance up at more okay thank you one of the the stated exceptions or variances within the ordinance is uh person who may be working on an existing landscape a sprinkler system uh for testing that system uh it is it's automatically granted an exception to to the ordinance there so that they can if they're working on the afternoon during their prib watering hours or some other time like that they could go ahead and complete their their activities uh the other is uh the watering of large landscape areas such as the public parks uh athletic facilities uh either at schools or the colleges cemeteries uh is exempt from the standard requirements and their usage is tied to uh their watering frequencies and application rates uh for each of those facilities then can you explain that again item number two I want item number two would be a good example be the the sports complex the real CAL Sports complex being a very large area as it is uh there're only I think two or three meters that serve that entire complex so to try to limit it to watering one day per week the entire complex would just really uh be very difficult in trying to supply that much water to the entire area so what they've done on that particular facility is up with a watering plan whereby they would water different areas uh throughout the week so that we can supply it without over over taxing the system a little bit but if no one's allowed to water outside outside then that exceptions that that would only apply under draft level one two or standard conservation not under draft level three thank

[1:43:17] you thank you okay clarify that under drought level three watering would not be allowed at parks and athletic facilities and schools and colleges and cemeteries that's correct okay cuz it's generic exception and a variance so it should it should be up on the top you know no watering shall be allowed including facilities athletic schools colleges because it kind of looks like an exception to the rule but it's not right okay again it doesn't apply to Drought level three it allow it applies to Drought the first three stages conservation drought level one and drought level two okay is there anything else sir that's specific to Drought level three the variances the variance B um is is specific to the dry level three because people can apply for a variance uh car washing swimming pools whatever but we need to know that there's people here that can apply for that variance people on television watching go back to the Vari app language as far as beyond the standard the exceptions already stated in the ordinance an individual could request a variance from the council uh from the provisions of the ordinance uh in doing that they would have to in essence State how they may be imp impacted by the particular provisions of that drought level and then the efforts that they would would make to try to conserve water water in other manners or how they could supplement uh the the water supply and some other means like it so there are Provisions within the variants that that state the criteria uh that the petitioner would have to provide then in the review and evaluation of that request okay so but this is the one that says the specific provisions of the article from which the petitioners requesting an exemption detailed

[1:45:19] statement of as to how the specific provision of the article adverse affects them uh and on and on I mean it tell it says how is it hurt how is it going to this will this will hurt me here's how it will hurt me here's what I'm going to do here's what I want I can do about it but I need a a variance from this so that I can continue to do X so that's right the problem with that is those are individuals correct that's a single entity individual that's how the or okay and and that frankly from my perspective I I I'm not real excited about trying to issue all these personal variances to this and to this and to this I think if we're going to issue a variance it needs to be based upon okay if we want to talk about the swimming pool filling or not hit that one up and say here you go if we want to talk about hamw watering period there you go car washes period there you go and then establish that kind of groupwise so that's where I'd like to maybe hit the focus now and that's where that's where my concern was want to move you have an if you have an individual whose livelihood is based upon the fact that they own three car three car washes uh and then you have an individual who may have car washes to supplement their their income I I I I think rather than hear both of those cases separately as it relates to variances we need to have um one piece of tapestry that would cover car washes in general and the same thing with with swimming pools perfect right there that's really the topic that we I think we all need to talk about items uh BNC and BNC yeah okay well um but we're not supposed to take I'm sorry go ahead no it's okay we're not taking action we are but I think we are trying to gather facts and have a discussion I've got a couple of

[1:47:21] questions okay you know the last time we talked about a possible level three here uh then I drive down at Bell Street and I see like uh it looks like they're they're having torrential rains over the park out there the Texas Sports Complex I'm my question is I wonder how how many gallons of water we're using on that Park and then secondly the question comes back to mind is the I wish Tony fox or Mary Cleveland were here to give us a report on the the residential users that are still using 50 60 70 80 100,000 gallons a month you know if that's still going on you know that that's terrible you know it but it's not illegal I know but we talk we we preach conservation all this time but yet we got folks you're right it's not illegal so but when are we going to change that that way of thinking for some of these folks that are are are just sucking us dry you know just cuz they can afford it doesn't make it right yeah but I still I mean I understand your thought process there and I and I and I think it's you know always remember that water is what we fight about but but you you sell water so we constantly are looking for a balance between how do you keep the water fund healthy how do you sell enough water to meet meet your needs you have high high fixed costs okay we have a water treatment facility and all the labor and all the people that work there and that go with that all the chemicals that have to be bought all the filters that have to be bought we have water lines and water line replacement and all of the things that are related to water supply someone has to buy that water so I want us to you know just be balanced it's not a I'm not look I don't want us looking for Boogeyman that's all I'm saying that you know the the big users are going to be us we're the number one user the the number one user is the city that's

[1:49:26] why I asked about the park and then and secondly will is there a is there a report out there of uh this continued usage by some of these top users other than the city you know I guess there's got to be I have I'm talking about residentials you know Johnny in regard to yeah but you're on a Witch Hunt now well no not really but you I would hope those folks would at least think twice about using that much but if it's legal you're on witch I understand that but you know when I'm I barely hit the 10,000 gallons and I would help I would hope some folks that they would at least think twice about at least conservation is what I'm trying to preach John in regard to the sports complex we have limited our watering down to what the ordinance requires in addition to that the city has uh proactively looked into the future we have winterized our grass and we will be down to zero watering by by the middle of this month we were intending to implement that before we ever go into a drought stage three so the city I believe is trying to set the example in regard to what we do as far as our water usage there was there was a list provided recently that showed each thing the city's doing to wind down and become compliant before the process is required right you'll also notice that there there are certain high priority areas within the city that we want to at least try to water within the ordinance the sports complex being one of those if you look at the remainder of the parks and in the city most of them are brown because we're not watering so I mean we've really tried to set the example there the supports complex Mr Alexander Sorry Miss farmer has asked to be recognized Miss farmer oh I was answering his question okay I wanted to uh State here that personally I feel the education of conservation should be at the very very top of what we're doing I don't want to put any business out there out of business because we're going to hit them first don't use water because the assumption is you use more water than anybody I

[1:51:29] want to tell you that in my household and my family households uh we've been doing a little test for the last 60 days and it may sound crude it it truly might to some of you but want to save the trees water bills excessively High we've been reusing water to the point of a three gallon Bowl in in the sink for every time that I wash my hands which is a lot and I was very very surprised at how much water I can collect three or four times a day that I have to go empty into a bucket and then take the bucket out to water my trees that's using that's my part to do less I think our citizens of s Angelo would rather be able to get their car washed or be able to swim if everyone would start doing their part one load of washing machine if you do not I have the updated water meiser which doesn't use near the water that the old ones do but most people have it can be two years and it's an older model now that they don't have the watermiser 40 gallons uh my son put a drum a 33 gallon drum at his washer to put into that that drum with the hose to drain out to water his trees he desperately wants to save his trees 40 gallons of water you got to be real careful and and let it drain out stop the machine or you going to run over your household but it's doing our part to conserve water uh some people don't want to fool with it but I think I'd rather drive a clean car be able to have my car washed and be able to sleep at night knowing that didn't put people out of business and people on the streets because they didn't have jobs I think there's what 120 businesses here in town car washes and they can employ 3 to 80 people depending on the size of their business that's a lot of folks and you know I was reading

[1:53:30] in 1 Corinthians 8 the other day and it said invest in others and I would love to see the S Angelo citizens invest in each other to conserve before we'd go as so drastic as to shutting down businesses livelihoods and putting people out of work yes it's a serious situation we don't have water but if we can get the attention of the public to do their part to conserve maybe we can hold off just a few more months and continue to pray for rain and that's all I'm saying no Witch Hunt that's exactly what I was I'm trying to say backs you up Charlotte yeah very good point okay Mr Alexander I was just answering a question Johnny asked about how much water the the sports complex take I have from Carl white from a an email in uh November it takes about 30% of our park water down the middle of the of the city along the Kono River at about 195 acre feet a year that's what it takes just to let you know and that's 30% of the use along the conro river all the parks Santa Fe Park uh civic league uh Visitor Center Sunken Garden the nefs area fire Firefighters Memorial City Park all those C combined combin well no no that that combined it's a it's about 600 AC feet thank you so what you just said was somewhere around 600 acre feet for all the parks along the river 30% of that total coming just at the sports complex yeah and the reason I asked for this is if we ever take our effluent water and treat it and send it down the cono River what parks could we use that affluent water we we could use 600 acre feet on those parks and and not take it from a regular Water Supplies that's why I asked okay thank you other questions or comments M maybe we hear the people that came to talk I what they got I wanted to kind of go through just to kind of hit some of

[1:55:32] these topics we seem to be I mean we're going through some good stuff but I we really haven't to me laid out some proposals and that's what I'd like to kind of throw some things against the wall and then let all of y'all give thoughts opinions whatever that so okay I guess a couple things that i' you know that I've got is the uh you know ham watering of trees just you know that's one of the uh things that I think we're allowed to do as part of the ordinance uh I think that would be something reasonable um car washes I mean I know that that's one that uh hitting the the businesses I guess it would be the car washes and one of the topics there might be I know there are some that are in town that you that have reuse that that do the ReUse as opposed to those that just everything goes down the down the drain okay that's a topic that I think that we need to maybe maybe talk about maybe allow an exemption and when I've looked at some of the some of the uh restrictions in other cities Odessa Midland abalene San Antonio such like that that you know possibly having limited time frame that you can only run the operate the car wash between here and here again that's just some things that I've I've noticed and seen out there golf courses I know we're going to absolutely kill the golf courses and I know people are going to throw things at that but uh golf courses have a tremendous tremendous tremendous investment in their greens they can lose Fairways and they can redo those they can redo tea boxes those don't make a difference but greens absolutely make a difference one of the thoughts may be allowing golf courses to only handw waterer the greens that's again just something I want to throw out that you know we can have some discussion on and then uh I guess the last item really is the maintaining of the pools and I know there's a few of you guys out there on that and uh and the thought process my thoughts may be that while we when we go into

[1:57:36] drought level three you know when it happens because it's imminent it's going to happen that we can come up with some of these items that we can say okay for these four items here's what we're going to implement for 3 months and then in 3 months we have to look at it again and if things are continued to go downhill and not making any Headway then we can either decide okay let's continue on for another 3 months another two months or we say that's it and now we're back to you know going strictly by the by the law so those are my thoughts as far as what it may be and I'm kind of with you I wouldn't mind hearing from all these folks out here okay but out of fairness I mean I I have a council member say some ideas I need to give council members a chance to to respond and I'll get to the public okay I can I can respond to those four four categories uh and we should probably put trees and Foundations maybe that Foundation is another one we can exempt trees and Foundations we can do that we cannot do car washes golf courses pools and we need an ordinance change to do that and if that's what we need to do then we need to get on it because we we can't do that they have to apply for an exemption one at a time that's what it says right now and so we have a problem we're going to be going into drought level three and it's easier now to think about what that really means than it was back in September what is it two years ago one year ago when we created this ordinance uh and I think we need to make adjustments instead of sticking with it necessarily we need to be sharp at what we do now we are not calculating in the Hickory when we talk about one year left and I think we should if there's any problems then say no but but at least get through April I think that we should do a lot of this through April when the Hickory is right there when we're going to know if it's going to work out or not and we look at this stuff in April so you're saying 3 months I'm saying April all right trees if we allow 750 gallons per resident per month that is a th000 acre feet a year and I I think that we can handle a th000 acre feet per year uh to save our trees that is a major deal

[1:59:40] in St Angelo we are the edge of the desert and you can't just stop watering trees without losing a lot of trees and I think that a lot of people are concerned about that I think we can handle it with the Hickory coming online uh especially car washes uh just looking at one car wash uh the car wash behind Burger Kino nicob buer uses about 9 acre feet a year let me just say the equalization Channel I went out and measured it we're losing 4.5 cubic feet a second out there uh that's still way over 9 acre feet a day I mean it's like 15 acre feet a day something like that we our own water system loses tremendous amounts of water if we're worried about 9 acre feet then we need go out there and spend some more money on pipes and get that water from the South Pole to the North Pole by pipe all the way so we don't lose an equalization Channel I don't want to be shutting down car washes when the city of s Angelo is not perfecting our own water system that is something we can do something about and we need to do something about it and and I can't seem to get that moving but we're losing water every day I don't want to shut down the car washes if we're going to be that sloppy with our water uh pools there are according to the tax office this ises information about 997 residential pools and about 84 public or commercial pools those residential pools with a square footage of about 512 ft lose I me my data here they lose about 60 acre feet a year and I'm considering people playing in them and splashing water up and splashing it out cuz it's really 47 acre feet they get a little use some say 60 acre feet a year is what they lose the commercial pools they're going to evaporate about 9.6 acre feet a year uh but people splashing water out it's really more like 20 acre feet like the public pools lose about 20 acre feet a year that's not a lot of water and so I sincerely think that public pools should not discontinue use we need that in our city it's hot kids can go out and

[2:01:44] play it's not a lot of water savings we can do it we can save water other ways so do your math so what I'm telling you Mr Alexander do your math a little bit for me though is that something like 84 time 20 is that what you just said 84 oh I just took the I said the surface area the average surface area is about 1,000 acre feet all right at Bentwood it's 2,000 at our city pool it may be 4,000 but at the roadway in it's only 600 and so all these Hotel so I said 1,000 acre feet all right and and I and I said uh if it's 1,000 acre feet we have 84 of these that's 9.65 acre feet per year that's 8 days of water okay but we have the Hickory coming on so it's a day of water about the residential pools are about two 2.4 days of water for the city of San Angelo that is a total of 3.2 days of water that we consume to keep our pools open for a year uh just looking at one pull the Bentwood pool is going to take about a half of acre foot but Splash Etc make it about an acre foot the city pool's going to evaporate away about an acre foot of water but splashing around and everything it's going to be about 2 acre feet I would suggest it's not allowing them to turn on the sprayers that spray it up into the air there's a lot of loss there I would just keep those things off keep the pools open uh so people can take a swim again we know we have water coming from the Hickory we know we can save water in the EQ Channel we can save water below nasw the enormous amounts of water I mean we're talking thousands of acre feet of water below nasworthy uh there's illegal pumping going on there's things we can do to help the situation in other ways uh golf courses hand watering those greens I bet you they put somebody out there to do it because those are a300 $400,000 investment and plus lost uh uh income from nobody being to play golf while those greens are rehabilitated etc etc those are problems as well uh I'm looking for more data from car washes they're going to come up here and talk a little bit I want to

[2:03:46] know how much each there's a history there how much is each Car Wash using uh so that we understand what we're dealing with here and maybe the Recycled water those car wases maybe have better uh Privileges and car washes that don't recycle their water and Etc I think I've given you all the data here as best as I can give it right now but my message is that we can do better as a city of San Angelo on our water system we should not be putting people out of jobs if we can improve the water system dramatically I'm talking thousands of acre feet saved if we can just re arrange our water a little bit okay thank you Mr silvas I had a question for Paul you lost me on the 750 gallons of month what we talking about for trees or okay if you if every water tap in San Angelo uses 750 gallons that is the equivalent of one 1,000 acre feet per year 750 gallons a month equals 1,000 acre feet a year out of our you're talking about to for for the household total for the every sing single meter gets 750 gallons so there's 35,000 met so every house get 750 gallons if they took that 750 gallons every month we would be down 1,000 acre feet in our water supply it's I never get to take a shower that's theor theoretical he's just pointing out I mean it's theoretical he's just pointing out that if each house use 750 when you give an allowance of 750 gallons per house you need what you're saying you're you're really you're going to use up a th acre feet right okay okay if you know some people are going to use more they're going try to get away with it and some people won't use any okay other questions up here okay let's open it up to the public then and so you've touched on car washes golf courses swimming pools and then the hand watering of trees and Foundation we're it is necessary to change our

[2:05:48] ordinance we're going to need to do that and we're going to need to do group exemption if sponsored by anybody within the group and you know we need to be able to do that it's going to be ridiculous if we don't just to have some symits of order I mean should you should we like tackle these in public comment kind of by these topics so we're not all over the board so we can focus on pool or this or that and I don't care and it's already 11:30 so we got yeah we got to move so okay gy up right okay what here's the deal on the on the public input let's walk through these and I just because it's the way it was discussed and it was described let's go through pools if you're to comment on pools come in and comment you'll be limited to five minutes okay so try try not to monopolize the mic let us learn as much as we can from you and I'll turn the timer on when you step up and we'll just listen to you and you can tell us about pools anyone that wants to talk about pools after that I'll take on Golf Course after that I'll take on car washes okay so pools if you'll start making way your way to the front so you can be on the front row and step right up I would appreciate it the best and most efficient use would be appreciated go ahead good morning Council and mayor my name is Bob Banks from the general manager at the roadway in um and I've had a handout distributed to y'all um an impact on not allowing us to refill the pools uh is dramatic um first and foremost it creates a health risk if the water falls blow to skimmer basket we can't fill back up so that water is circulating through our pump system being treated and put back into the pool pools are going to go green they going to grow algae they going to grow bacteria it's going to be a breeding ground for mosquitoes and a big Haven for West n virus the city today started spraying for West n virus in District 1 and six you're going to have to continue to do that more often if we let these

[2:07:51] pools dry up uh I purchased 22,000 gallons of water to fill the pool and maintain the pool to keep the pool structure inte Integrity uh if we have to drain that pool we're going to lose the Integrity to the to the to the walls in the bottom there's a chance that the walls will crumble the pool will come up out of the ground uh not to mention we'll have to drain green water back into the sewage system okay um what we do at roadway in in the way of conserving water since people asked about water conservation uh we have water conservative showerheads I just spent $99,000 replacing a 30-year-old washer to a more up Top Line upto-date washer for the hotel we only wash full loads we don't do half loads um we don't water our grass once every week we water our grass twice a month um but I always see run off going down the street behind the hotel and I get calls from water conservation tell me I need need not to be watering my grass every day my clocks are off I'm not watering um you know the big the big problem is the pool's going stagnant and what do we do with the water once it does go stagnant you know then we're going to be dumping water out back into the water into the the sewer system then that water is going to have to be heavily treated to get to get more water um I on on the handout I'm not opposed to closing our pool currently stays open all year long uh we do have a hot tub our guests come in they like to sit out the pool and relax I'm not opposed to closing the pool down but I ask that you allow us to maintain our levels so we can keep our water treated so we don't cause a public health risk that um you allow us to open our pools during our peak season which is summer time which will help sustain loss of economic impact into our city Hot

[2:09:56] Dollars and sales tax because guest come in and they spend their money elsewhere um so you know please take into consideration you know this these exemptions and how it it's going to affect everything you're going to lose you're going to lose money on water on your water fund because you can't sell water you got the possibility of losing a ton of sales tax revenue because people aren't going to come to San Angelo and I'll be honest to you I close my pool down throughout the year when my chemicals go out of balance um I use Hill pools who's here um and she could Becky can tell you I I come in there like my pool I got to get it open I'm full I'm full I got people complaining can't open it Bob you can't open it you can't do this you can't do that it's got to be this it's got to be that you know we adhere to the state laws to make sure our pool is safe for our for our consumers and for the city and the city as well you know and other thing is if there was a big fire in at the hotel and the city's got to come in and put out a fire I got 22,000 gallons sit in my swimming pool they can use to put out a fire instead of tapping into City water to put out a fire so they're my points and I just hope that you know you all can make some changes in your ordinance Bob it's a safety threat as well they could fall into that pool if it's empty it's a safety threat is that right well our our pool by law has to be G um we have a RW Iron Gate around our pool and we have we had the possibility of locking the pool which we do every night but that does not prevent people from hopping the gate okay thank you okay thank you my name is Tobin Abbott I'm with Southwest Pools and Spa here in town I also am I have a pool at my house so kind of looking at both sides and I'm not going to repeat sorry a lot of what he said I think a lot of it makes sense now you just going over it again uh couple of things just like you said letting them go stagnant it it's I see the cost of it I I think few of you I

[2:12:00] know a few of you have have pools too but it's the cost of if we do have to let the water go down you run in the interior of the pool you know and so that's all homeowners not just me as a pool builder that it's costing you know uh and of course like I said just as letting them letting them turn green the different things the health issues there uh as far as the expense of them too and and and I I realize that it's I don't have a problem even being as a pool builder okay we can't fill pools right now I I know what the lakes are like I've been out there I know I'm okay with that not that it's going to it's going to hurt my pocket but I understand that part it's just the refill and that's the main thing I think we're looking at right now is trying to keep them full safety issues you like you said with kids even residential pool yes a kid could fall in and drown well you kind of watch that but a kid falls in and breaks his arm in a dry pool or one that's part way down or you know there's just some different issues some of the there are some of the uh with a pool full there's some sensors on there that if a kid falls in sometimes that sensor goes off well if the water's down you don't have that there's just several issues there and that's what we're kind of looking at I think right now is not the filling them just the maintaining them so just one thing address the uh the Integrity of the pool of an empty pool empty pool with a plaster pool I do plasters uh the heels do the liner pools and they're more familiar with them the plaster pool once that water level gets down below the tile okay when the plaster on a plaster pool the water the plaster has to stay under water okay or it it dries out and cracks falls off okay if if that water level gets down below the tile the further it goes I mean it it does that and the plaster is what deteriorates it starts falling off and you have to complete I mean you can't just patch it it has to be a complete replaster on the pool which anywhere from $5 to $110,000 depend on the size of the pool but if it's drained you can't leave a plaster pool drain or will running I I have a I need to ask because of expertise there what about covers or okay certain times of the year a cover cover solar blankets for and that is and

[2:14:03] I think Craig and Becky as well as us have had people already call and okay what are we going to do to our pool what are we going to do to a pool there there are chemicals that and Becky is a little more familiar with it that can be added that are supposed to reduce the vaporation solar any kind of cover you can take a hot tub I I've got a separate hot tub with a cover on it it stays hot with a cover on it you may add water once in 3 months I mean if you can keep it covered then that's where you cut down so much on the evaporation even a solar blanket which is kind of like the bubble wrap or whatever but just any kind of blanket something over it that would reduce the evaporation if we can there again education if we can educate The Pool owners to that you know some people do them in the spring and the fall just to help warm up the water temperature that's what they're designed for but they also definitely help on the operation okay thank you thank you hello my name's Craig Hill I'm with Hill pools in here in town and uh reiterate what Tobin was saying about if if the water level drops below that skimmer we can't circulate that pool there is no reason to put chemical in it we can't keep it from turning green without filtration so that's the biggie when water if we let the pools drain in the inground vinyl liners we we lose the liner just like you would the plaster so one of the things that I want to address y'all with is the amount of cost to all the Pool owners in s Angelo if if we can't maintain these pools then they're they're going to we'll have to go in and fix them when we do get water at at a high cost the other thing we we are trying to educate our customers in conjunction with Tobin over at Southwest as far as there's a chemical called coverfree you put 4 ounces in the water and it cuts down the evaporation the solar blankets also cut down the

[2:16:05] evaporation we are entering the end of our evaporation season pools don't evaporate as much in the winter so I would ask you to postpone this the the not being able to maintain the pools till we get to our next evaporation season when it becomes a bigger problem any idea on the solar blankets what kind of what what's it going to cut it down uh you know I didn't bring any backup with me but if you want my professional opinion you can conservatively say 65 to 70% less evaporation less evaporation with the solar blanket you're probably uh I'm going to say in the in the 60% range with the the liquid coverfree the chemical you pour in so it's both of them are going to be over 50% and and one of the other fet when I was reading and I don't remember what city it was but uh they say that at least 25% During certain drought levels that 25% of your pool has to be covered shaded in some way to limit evaporation and they actually say all the floaties and everything like that it counts as part of that so obviously it does I mean work you know just just say you're average 16 by 32 pool um an inch of water in that's going to be 320 gallons so if we can cut that at least in half um and and you times it by all the pools in town it's a lot of water but I just I'm asking you to postpone this and and take into consideration the the health risk and and the the property damage it's take yeah well it it does take an amendment to the ordinance but uh I wanted to ask you you know I mean it seems in it seems intuitive or June July August are probably the highest September is

[2:18:10] probably still pretty darn High uh when does evaporation a baate when I mean what what's the time marker when you expect to put less water in a pool to refill it when we start getting the the ambient temperatures down in the 60s and 7s and the water temperatures down daytime temperatures and the average temperature day and night okay okay and and we start getting the temperatures down in the pools um 60 65° your evaporation rates is going to go way down okay thank you I have a question Mr Hill sure I I by no means am an am I an expert in pools but so this the refilling of pool is that happening right now as we speak I mean do they refill themselves or how does that work not the whole pool we're we're talking just maintaining a as the pools evaporate down you know we have to add an inch and a half two inches of water per week per 10 days but that's not what we're talking about refilling of the pool right when we lose talking about Sir the maint maintain fings yeah he doesn't he doesn't mean refill I'm talking about toing it off yeah it off that's what okay that's what Paul was talking about the splashing and all that Splash that you lose when you top it off that's not the same as refilling I mean I I I know an empty pool refill but when Mr Abbott described refilling he meant he means topping it off I mean he's he's not talking about I wasit topping it up refilling or maintaining way they are to treat I believe so you're just using the same language but anyway but refilling as a definition is this replacement of water that evaporates or is splashed out wow okay so if it's down this much we're filling it back up refilling okay thank you okay M any more questions okay thank you sir others on

[2:20:16] pools hi I'm Becky Hill Craig's wife and I just was going to um make a comment the cover-free chemical that we were talking about I've been doing a little experiment at my own pool we have um an 18x 36 pool with about 24,000 gallons of water and I've been adding the chemical trying to be very um religious with putting it in when I'm supposed to to see if it will help with the evaporation on the bottle it says that it will cut down evaporation 85% so I haven't really tested um the whole Theory yet to see if that that is true but that's what it claims um started putting it in my pool three weeks ago and um I added water today for the first time in three weeks now I did have a little bit of rain so that helped but these are just some things you know that that we can do and we can try to um to help with the evaporation um I so just kind of a wanted to give yall a little bit of information as far as you know it has cut down watering I have been putting we put water in the pool probably once a week um once every you know yeah probably once a week during the hot times of the year so it did it has helped a little and I would assume the more you put in the pool the more um that it will help and the only other thing I wanted to say y'all talked about it a minute ago um I would like to be able to file that exemption um if if if we can do this where we can continue to top off our pools if we would be able as company owners or whatever to file that exemption as a whole on behalf of all the Pool owners instead of having everybody come and do that I think that's something we can do for our public and um okay it's a reasonable request but I don't think the ordinance allows that I think the ordinance requires individuals to to file for exemption so let's move past that and hear what Mr Alexander was saying and others Mr hfield saying roughly the same thing but that an amendment to the ordinance if we're going to do something for All Pool owners really the the better way for us to accomplish that is

[2:22:18] not for you to file a petition for exemption but for us to just revisit the ordinance okay okay okay thank you what was the name of that chemical again just curious cover it's called cover free and my address is 999 I was going to ask where do you find it others on pools okay just just one one one thought okay um we talk about the amount of water that we have to use replace in the pool um just stop been think about how much water will be used if we're not allowed to keep our P pools filled and filtrating how much water when we are allowed and we come out of stage three back down to a stage two where we can fill our pools the amount of water that's going to go back into these swimming pools yeah let me ask you a question right quick yes sir uh as a commercial pool operator what's the reasonableness of council requiring a solar blanket or a what are your thoughts on that kind of thing from from October the 15th until May the 1st or whatever you know that's that's another added expense um putting a solar blanket on is going to increase a liability if somebody does go into into the pool area and falls into the into the pool and into the solar blanket um I've now been made aware of a chemical that is out there that we can put in the pool and trust me I'll be stopping at Becky store on the way home to pick up a bottle and start adding chemical to my pool um I don't know what the cost of a a solar cover is but on my pool which is an 18x 36 pool um I'm sure that it's going to be a couple of thousand dollars expense okay far cheaper than last year yeah I it's all right I was going to ask someone else and I appreciate you I'm going to do the same thing you about to uh okay

[2:24:21] thank you Mr bankster uh Mr Abbott or Mr Hill e either one of you would y'all help me with the same question do you have any input on the question that I just asked about solar blanket or that kind of thing I mean when would it go on when would it go on when would it need to come off how can it be operated and what does that do for conservation in other words how and in some kind of an approximate cost on a residential side most people what what we do with the solar blankets is put them on in the spring and it helps warm the water up where they can extend their season on the on the front end and the back end your perspective sir is that in the winter there's no evaporation anyway so putting it on is of no real help or hurt right there I'm not going to say there's no evaporation in the winter it just cuts way down so back to what here what I'm describing if we were trying to figure out how to help but be as responsible about water as as possible how would we need an education on that blanket it's cost its use when it could be used those kinds of things it can be used year round you can leave it on there year round uh a residential side your average solar cover is 350 250 to 350 um the liquid as far as what Bob's talking about with with drowning the solar blankets are not going to be Sav at at a commercial pool but the coverfree the the liquid is it it's you won't know it's on there that make sense yes sir um as far as the residential swimming pools we have a lot of customers that use them and and a lot of customers report to us that they don't lose near as much water with the solar blanket on okay I can speak from personal experience with the solar blanket versus the cover uh lots of trees and stuff like that but the cover on 1st of October it stays on till the 1st of February that in February put the solar blanket on like you said uh to warm the

[2:26:25] water up so we have an earlier season and U the solar blanket on a 16 by 20 pool is $110 yeah uh relatively easy to do something I can do you know by myself but the solar blanket you can put on 1 February and then in September October you remove your solar blanket depending on but it does cut down on water evaporation you know the requirement of any you know pool it's not a huge expense to put a solar blanket on okay thank you very much okay is uh are there folks out there that would like to talk about golf courses okay are there folks out there that would like to talk about uh car washes Mr Mayor city council my name is Bobby Lou Allen I'm the owner operator of the three Auto paradise car washes in town and well I don't pretend to speak for everyone in the industry we do have um other uh owner operators in the audience and we've been having discussions for the last week or 10 days of all the major car wash owners and operators in town you would recognize all the names and um we would like to just have a quick discussion um and provide you information so that you can make and inform decision and and what's great is that you don't have to figure it out alone there are other cities and Mr hfield has named several that are considered benchmarked cities on water conservation year round so we don't have to wait till stage three to take action yes we do need to look at the ordinance but we can Benchmark San Antonio who um is considered one of the um Premier cities on um conser cons a efforts and all of the topics that y'all have been talking about they have those addressed in their yearound water conservation um

[2:28:28] policy um so we would really like to partner with the city to provide add additional information our association is also available um because they've been championing this program for more than 15 years throughout our state and have worked through with many City councils to come up with that comprehensive water conservation program um I provided each of you with a a letter with some of their talking points um that lists several of the cities that they've worked with to come up with that comprehensive plan so there's no need to wait um to D address drought 3 we can start today um working on that now a little bit about the um Car Wash industry is we are the people who um are the most conservation um conscious not only us but the the very businesses that this ordinance targets um are the ones that are out there trying to drive the the conservation efforts in this city uh speaking personally um without any incentive or directive from the city the state or federal um I have taken actions to recapture and reuse um my RO water at my own expense I put in reclaim systems you can talk to any one of the operators in this um forum and they could go through a list of items of of where they're driving conservation efforts where they're using more labor to do a task versus automated water systems that they used in the past where they're using high efficiency nozzles where in the past they didn't so they could list a whole bunch of efforts also when you talk about data Mr Alexander was quoting a lot of data the car wash industry and and um cities have confirmed that car washes use. 2% of the daily City Water Supply or annual whichever time period you want to look at 2% just a bunch of us that own probably 70% of the car wash um volume in this

[2:30:31] city we looked at our usage we doubled it and we still couldn't get above 5% in our city now we would welcome the city manager or whoever to go pull that data and challenge us on the impact so what we're asking the city to do is to go out to to look at that ordinance and let's partner develop an ordinance that drives year round conservation that gets everyone involved residents commercial year around so that we can we can be effective in our water management without killing our local businesses because what's going to happen is the local businesses are the ones that are going to go out of business and when you turn the water back on we will not open back up now the larger corporations in town they will survive we will not and that's Pool owners that's you know the local businesses the locally owned businesses are the ones that will not open when you um turn the water back on so we would love to partner we think it's a serious issue we are um very active in water conservation already and we appreciate um you considering this okay thank you comments thank you can I I'm sorry go ahead may I add to that sure can I I want to ask him a question I do too okay uh I what percentage what's your reuse your reclaim it depends on which site but U my first two sites um I reclaim reuse um up to 30% of my water at my new site that's in Mr Morrison's uh District up by W Walmart it has a full reclaim um system in use and it I use probably 70% less water than um most car washes um but you can't use all of it because of the chemicals and the water and the the wax and the I mean so what is the no you use it you can reuse it all the thing is is you don't use reclaim water for certain applications like the final rinse that's an RO rinse so you can't use that um you can't reuse water for that application

[2:32:34] but when you have a RO water maker uh machine that kicks off I think Mr Wy talked about it in his um Thursday conversation it kicks off reject water well we all capture that reject water and then pump it back into our washes so um that is fresh water the RO water that's a you can't use reclaim for that also for most of our low press soap applications we don't use um reclaimed water but all the other High Press applications that you see are candidates for using reclaimed water and and the sad fact about um water conservation is that I don't even advertise that because people look at it negatively you know but you can't go through my wash and and know that I'm using 70% reclaimed water because the quality of the wash and the the whole wash experience you can't tell the difference but if I was to advertise that it would it would have a um economic impact to my business I think just advertised that is how well I'm because I'm fighting for my livelihood when when the ordinance going after 2% of the water demand understand you do do be aware and and you saw what Mr Wy said and I'm and I'm not at all argumentative I'm very appreciative of your approach I'm very appreciative of your demeanor all those things but I do want you to be aware the city you were talking about conserving across the board and those things you know the city is doing that the usage in the city has declined dramatically based on conservation measures over the last decade or 15 years and so I want I don't want it to feel like we need to start we can always improve uh answer that please if if you took it that way I did not mean it in that approach what I meant was that not when I say the city I'm talking about the Greater St Angelo Community citizens right the the whole the citizen but they but they are using you know 20 what 14,000 acre feet a year

[2:34:37] versus 28,000 but I'm just saying when you look at our ordinance our ordinance is not as um robust or brought up to you know recent um I got you okay that's what I was trying to say a problem there's a lot of new things that have been implemented at other cities that comprehensive one of the things that I just want us to be careful of again is that it's is that we don't become boogey men uh Searchers you know that it's the residences or it's the businesses or it's this person or it's but that but that it's an approach of how do we make sure we do our very best to help you stay in business okay it's very complex and at the same time just kind of put pressure in all directions to make sure we cons serve that's all I'm after can I follow up one more thing I mean first thing is that I brought up maybe limiting the the times because I know that that was one of the things in San Antonio's proposal and then also what percentage roughly of the local car washes commercial car washes uh reuse water versus just using Straight fresh um I I really hate to speak for everyone but every car wash owner that I've talked to they have conservation efforts at least where they capture their Ro reject they have high efficiency nozzles Etc I I I don't know if one of us who don't because we are so water dependent but the ReUse um the older the older the unit the less likely it has reuse because because they can't reclaim because they don't have a tank I would I would I would venture to say there are not very very many people who have full reclaim systems because you have to do it when you build a site it's really hard to go and do it after the fact is there like a time period you can say probably every car wash built after 1985 probably has this re reclaim system where would not not thank you Miss farmer I just wanted to add to uh what the gentleman

[2:36:44] was saying is you know our own numbers we we we need to play pay close attention our own own numbers residential usage is 62% of our usage uh commercial is only 18% industri is 4% and system operation is 16% now I don't know if car washers fall in commercial or the industrial but what that tells me those numbers tell me is the residential uses we is the one that we really do need to concentrate to educate on for conservation businesses are out there doing what they can to conserve by these numbers the that we gave out Thursday night and speaking of Thursday night this uh water conservation tips I personally think the city should go to the expense of mailing this to every household in St Angelo uh it's part of education and it needs to go people need to understand um I would rather concentrate in adjusting amending our ordinance to take this into consider consideration and move on okay Mr silvas and actually Mr hsvi asked both questions that I had but Mr LEL on the back to the Reclamation the water uh I think Miss farmer said it was like 120 car washes well if you count all of the bay washes uh that are here are you talking about each individual stall or no businesses 120 well I your HBS your you all the different is NI it's not just a car wash you know you've got grocery stores that have car washes You' got all kinds of little places that have car washes so then it's not fair to ask you if you knew how many of those are using I really don't I just know the the owner operators that I interact with and knowing the age of most of our facilities would be the only thing I could base that on okay that'll work thank you are there others that would like to talk about the car

[2:38:46] washes okay that was good information uh um I I have gone through uh pools golf courses car washes the only other one is really the handw watering of trees and Foundations which it already we already can allow all we have to do is vote and say yes you can so I don't see any re reason to go through that okay uh based on the fact that we really can't take action on the resolution today uh and this is a discussion item only I would suggest then that you you look at this and that we then talk about it in future agenda items uh recognize also what he said or what uh what um Miss bowling said earlier the way the process works under our um under our ordinance Mr Wy would have to come to us after we have entered that's the way she said it come to us after we have entered drought stage level three conditions okay so if you look at the fact that you have a September 19th uh council meeting and if we are not in that stage at that time he would not be able to come to us if 18th okay if we have an 18th time frame if he comes in and we're not in stage level three at that time he can't introduce it then so then the next time would be the first Tuesday in October uh and he would would if we're in drought stage level three he would introduce it then why I'm saying that is I think you have time on the 18th to make your first runs at what you think needs to be done here okay so you've got time to kind of think through what we've heard and you can make your first runs that here's what I think we need to do about this ordinance on the 18th then you could have a second reading and passage and those things on the very first uh time in October so you have time now to make a run at here's what I think we learned here's what I think we ought to do and all those kinds of things and the business owners won't won't have it happen to them before those things have time to be done based

[2:40:49] on when Mr Wy would be bringing the action to you on throughought stage level in the most simple terms it is not necessary to go run out and get an exemption right now tell your customers hold on you if this doesn't come through and we don't vote in changes there's still a chance to go do it later okay but so that I think then takes 19 and puts it behind us until we can make the first run at what kinds of changes for different groups you might want to bring up on the 18th okay all right at this point then I'm going to move us to item number 16 16 was it 15 or 16 16 no see we have no choice we have to hit some of these budget things 16 17 and 18 okay item number 16 item 16 could be tabled if we needed to it's the adoption of of user fees for the landfill I believe and if we had to we could postpone it 17 and 18 have to happen today we have a motion that we table that second there's a second that we table it is there any other input argument with that from Council let me go ahead and take a vote on the motion to table all those in favor please say I I any opposed okay item 16 has been tabled item number 17 yes ma'am uh the adoption of of today's budget ordinance would appropriate the funds for 2012 2013 fiscal year it approves the pace schedule for city employees including civil and non civil service and uh approves the budget amendment authorizations and allows uh the city manager's office to apply for routine annual grants that's in all the attachments in that ordinance so we have a presentation ready for you today however um we've been working with you and and providing information so unless there are any specific questions um you can give me direction if you'd like me to go into the presentation okay folks what would you like Mr Morrison um and I I'm going to make it this in a form of a motion but I'm going to make it in the form of a motion that we add that 42 ,000 back for the senior nutrition program and that' be part of

[2:42:53] our budget second I thought it was 48 what is it 42 48 $ 44,6 33 Okay let me let me change that $ 44,6 33 be added back into this budget so that we may continue the senior nutrition program okay Mr Morrison your motion is to approve the budget ordinance as uh presented no that that's that's not what what I said I just said I want this before we vote on the budget I want this back in the budget because we talked about it in our budget that's what I'm that's the same things I appreciate it my clarity that's what I was seeking I wondered if you were saying I want to vote for the whole thing with this added back or whether you were saying I just want to add thisit no I will wait to make a motion that approve the whole thing until I see the entire until I know exactly what we're doing but I want this portion of the budget back in the budget got it that's what I was that's what I was ask is that your second that was my second okay so right now what he's what he's uh trying to do is just reintroduce one item to the budget the the reduced Recreation meal program uh but he's not making a motion concerning the overall budget okay uh I'm looking at this let me make sure I get this right second public hearing consideration adoption of the ordinance should I really be taking that as a motion or should I should I be my only problem is Mayor is we had a budget meeting and several of it asked that it' be put back in it was not and then last meeting I asked it to be put back in it was not okay and as of right now I don't not it is not in the budget is it okay that's correct then I want it in the budget consider it I want it in there all right so just talked a that the motion was made to cut the budget by an additional 663 th000 not to replenish this particular program and we would need direction on should this 44,000 come from the $663,000 Surplus should we

[2:44:58] cut Capital what direction would this item be funded from a budget that figure out here's what I'm after sir okay I don't really think I I should be taking a vote on each piece but that I should not take a vote or or accept a motion about all of it without getting that item dealt with so what I'm trying to do is see what other items maybe get one motion that includes these things have to be dealt with and and then a motion is that okay if I try to move us forward just as long as this is not left out of the out of the end product yeah I I don't care how we get there just as long as I'm just reading what it says and I don't I don't think we're really supposed to be each piece motioning up or down so I'm going to try to get us to get a motion that hits the pieces well I'm going to hold I'm going to pull mine until I get to that point then all right keep an eye on me and I'll be trying to help you so okay I pull my second all right let's move forward then but we have an interest in making sure that there's an an amended motion that we don't take things just as presented what else are there other questions or do we otherwise want to approve this got a question okay um Mr Dane I had brought up a uh a topic on uh item number 310 the City Health where it appears that we have cut the budget by uh over a million dollars yes sir we're prepared to go over that with you sure I have a brief overview and if you have specific questions I believe Lisa Marley is also on hand to speak to that to clarify we we received a question from councilman hersfeld that said that the information he received made it appear as if we were cutting expenditures in the self-insurance fund the health the health insurance fund by a million dollar and uh so we followed up on that um and we are prepared to deal with that today or to to bring you some information today in short yes we

[2:47:01] did decrease the budget by a million dollars the 2012 original budget which I believe you're looking at last year's ordinance adopted um $8 million in revenue and $8 million in expense um after the budget was adopted there were changes made to the plan there were adjustments made to uh what is covered in the health insurance plan and as such there was a mid-year budget amendment done in uh to reduce revenue and reduce expenses by uh almost 1.1 million so the 2012 revised um Revenue budget is $6,950 th000 that's what's on the books right now for the health insurance fund down from our budget of this current fiscal year we're ending of 8 million the current FIS schal year is ending at 6, 950,000 I think that's that's what critical is we started I say the answer to your question is yes here's what I think she just said and let's just you tell me if this is what you said okay but I here's what I think she said it was September of last year we budgeted 8,4 50,000 in revenue and expenses then because it's a calendar year plan we go through a bunch of stuff that puts makes changes to the medical insurance and so forth and so then by the time we actually adopted a plan we didn't really need $8 M50 th000 but we but but the time for making budget uh votes had already passed so September you pass 8 million 50,000 between then and January the 1 you realize your plan changes are actually going to cost you less than that so then she said in may we made a revised uh we revised the budget uh with a vote that took that number from 8, 50,000 down to to 6,950 but so we made an adjustment there of 1.1 million but that was because of again be best you knew in in September it was going to cost 8 million then you go through the process uh getting ready

[2:49:04] for January decides you're actually not going to spend that and you made a budget change of 1.1 million is that correct that's correct it wasn't done in May but yes sometime mid year during the year yes okay that is all that the rest of that is correct so to Compare the 2012 sorry go ahead that that's all right I was just going to point out that you remember that we kind of danc had a little victory dance after we went through all that insurance business last year because the costs had come down and this is where that is reflected so that 8 million you just over budgeted or were just looking at a higher number with with lack of of better data of knowing what you didn't know you didn't know yet what you were going to get right right so you're just get you're just guesstimating but then you got the actual plan put in place now this is saying you really did spend a lot less money based on the new actual plan and then and then what they're saying is we think we can hold that flat or even reduce it by $50,000 for the next year based on what we think the plan's going to do you just loaned your projection so yeah so what she's saying is the change from 2012 to 2013 is reduced by 50,000 so they're saying in the budget we're approving they're doing something flat for next year with what actually happened this year due to innovative solutions and and efficiencies okay okay so that's what she's saying all right good thank you sounds good I I guess at some point and and maybe we knew this but the where did that 1 million go we reduced revenue and reduced expense so the budget still balances okay so at 6, 950,000 in Revenue we didn't our Revenue projection for this current fiscal year is a million dollars less correct and that's okay all right I got you all right credit and a debit you're just washing it out that's correct I'm okay you're not you didn't stick the million somewhere else next that's what I was hidden fund or something next item

[2:51:06] Mr Dane I I do have a question uh you talked about the pay plan was included in here but we haven't decided yet how to give raises and we had planned on bringing that back at the next council meeting to decide what methodology we would use for us for assigning that money we've set aside we I assume that if we adopt as presented we will still be able to come back and discuss our methodology our strategy for handing out that raiseed money absolutely thanks for bringing that up the pay plan the grades don't necessarily change if you give me a 3% raise I'm still a grade 19 or whatever it is so the pay grades are what you're approving here so upon approval of this item we should not as employees assume that what is in here is going to be how the raises are going to be given we're still going to discuss that at a future council meeting okay other questions on this so so you're just adjusting adjusting the grades the pay grades we're not adjusting the no you're not all you're doing is agreeing that you're going to spend $550,000 and what you're doing is agreeing that you're going to spend 300 and something on meet and confer and then later you'll decide how how you're going to spend the $550,000 okay okay that's what she's saying okay other thoughts on this okay Mr Morrison would you make a motion with one change maybe toward this thing that we adopt this budget as presented with the amended with the amendment that we put the 44,6 back into the recreational senior nutritional meal program okay I have a I have a motion in a second Mr Adams with the second are there other questions on this from the council I have a comment Miss farmer I'm all for putting the meals back in that's what I'd wanted from the

[2:53:09] time we were having workshops that I wanted in but I'm not going to vote to approve the budget uh you know I for several years I have right here things provided in the budget drafts Real Simple by Department this this this is real simple to read and understand and been provided that's all I've asked for this year and I'm just not happy with the response that I get from the budget folks when they say okay you want it we'll give it to you and they provide me this the whole Blooming Thing to look through whenever you folks are on salary you get paid and and I expect to get the summation sheets that simple takes a little time but it is detailed and uh I want line items spending and budgeting I'm just not comfortable with it and I'm not going to vote for it okay and you've got a very good point there you've got an excellent point and maybe we need to just hold this thing off for another meeting until we get what we've asked for well and I I want to say I'm I'm with Charlotte on this thing too I'm not real real pleased with how this whole budget thing has turned out um I'm not going to be voting for this either I mean and and my answer would be if we have to approve a budget today that we approved the budget for uh last year's numbers and then we figure it out over the course of the next 60 to 90 days okay and that would be my recommendation okay M trainer What's the total amount on this budget it's about 130 million all funds um I'm asking about the general fund 54.5 million in expenses and about 3.9 million in transfers out and what was that last year Well out of fairness though I mean for the moment let me go ahead and keep I'm sorry I apologize uh what I'm thinking on this is that we

[2:55:14] gave them gu gave them guidance at the last council meeting to get to 5 $4.5 million and then we made a big presentation of the fact that we didn't want to have to do that on an item by item basis that we pay them to do that so if they've brought us a $54.5 million budget I mean we somewhere in here we can't have it both ways that's all I'm trying to say that if you tell them it's 54 a. half million bring me something uh now you made a small change and I'm okay with that but if we start kind of walking them through each different item again then I feel like we're giving them mixed signals and that's not fair somewhere in here you can't say give me a $54.5 million budget and I pay you uh to figure out where to cut this or cut that and on the other hand I mean in other words we need to be clear that what what do we want well my problem my problem is this and it goes right along with what Charlotte said when we had our budget meeting we asked that this be put back in there were several of us that said we don't want this CED and then last meeting I brought it up again and I said I don't want this dropped Charlotte said I don't want it dropped either there was a consensus but it's never been put back in so we give direction and the direction is not followed and now we end up with this okay so but I guess my point being that it seems like that uh that we're we're at the $54.5 million we gave them and we have made the change that you're concerned with in your motion not yet well in my motion but it's not voted on seconded so it seems like to me we ought to be able to push this through and and have the budget done have the rate done and uh and move forward well then I'll maintain my motion I I retain my motion and we'll vote on it if it fails and we'll go to St stage two but my motion stands does your second stand yes okay then we vote then we Mr Adams there's Mr Adams your second was was withdrawn it was Mr Morrison the second time he made a motion Mr Adam second okay well as long

[2:57:17] as I've got a second I I I'd like a vote on that okay second okay further comments from Council just further comment you know other than the other things that were mentioned you know from the very beginning from April I have been asking for a car allowance report not gotten it wasn't emailed I have stated so in Council meetings I still hadn't gotten it I managed to get it this morning you got it I uh okay what irritates me is when we say okay this is going to be our budget you go find some cuts our budget committee finds Some Cuts the cuts always the people are the ones that are penalized or suffer uh you know take the meals away from the elderly but let's continue giving car allowances you know car allowance report the effective date in ' 05 we complained and we said we want it cut each year cut it hasn't been cut yes some people have moved on and gone on but we have added more car car allowances since' 05 I mean we never look at cutting inside with the employees it's always the citizens and I think we forget that it's the citizens who pay our salaries great okay other questions or comments from Council public input on this item okay let me then call for this vote okay all those in favor of the motion which is to accept this $54.5 million budget uh as presented with the exception of reinstating the $446 33 for the senior Mills program please say I I I all those opposed n n n okay I I I I I I four nay n n three okay so you have Mr Alexander Mr Morrison Mr Adams Mr new on the eyes you have Mr silvus Mr herzfeld Miss Farmer on the Nays okay but I think this gives

[2:59:20] I think this gives staff a very good idea of where we need to go and I don't think anybody up here's happy with this budget process this is this has been it's not been good so by a 4-3 vote on this budget and I've never seen a budget that wasn't a 70 vote y'all got some problems and they need to be taken care of and really I think staff needs to start listening to us and you're not listening there's my two cents wor okay Let's uh move forward thank you let's go to item number 18 this is the first public hearing and introduction of an ordinance levying property taxes for the city of St Angelo for the 2012 2013 budget year um the the budget as they have presented it uh includes a half cent uh decrease in the rate from 78.6 cents to 78.1 Cent and um uh and so I is this one that has to have really specific language in U in the way it's stated so the motion because it seems like to me that it is so I'm trying to make sure I give you what you want okay you're doing well uh some of the specific language that you might be referring to is under the statute but since it's a decrease uh okay it's it's treated differently okay well at this time uh let's let me seek a motion for the decrease of a half cent and a stated 78.1 Cent per $100 valuation uh property tax rate for the upcoming what you just said put my name on it Mr Morrison's motion Mr Alexander seconder okay and is there any further discussion from Council on this item is there any public input call for this vote all those in favor please say I I any opposed thank you

[3:01:27] okay the only folks the thing that was tabled was item number 16 and so for now let's go into executive session and then we'll we'll handle other items after the executive session is that correct folks even in today's environment or special circumstance with interviews and what have you will we be coming back before we start the interviews or I don't think so do ex session here this room where is the executive session planned to be here is would somebody please get Lisa this is her executive session okay the room is set up upstairs for executive session if that helps okay okay okay at this time I'm going to move us into executive session under the provision of government code Title 5 open government ethics sub toal subtitle a open government chapter 551 open meeting sub chapter D exceptions to the requirement that meetings be open section 551.074 Personnel matters to interview candidates for the city manager position and then we'll come back and and handle things here we I I want to bring us back out of executive session and call the meeting to order uh and and so what we don't have anything to discuss from the executive session at this point oh thank you and it is 455 what I'd like to do is move on to item number 21 and this is announcements and consideration of future agenda items um and so we we had one item today that got tabled so for sure it will be moving to the next agenda I believe it was item number 16 that's all what I show also mayor okay and uh Beyond item number 16 uh the other things would be further

[3:03:31] information you wanted to talk some about which maybe it was in 16 I'm sorry but some of the pay issues or something that you wanted to go through so we yes sir we will bring back some alternatives for Council uh with regard to how we hand out um pay increases this year there's been some research done and some opinion expressed by Council and we'll try to mold those into a uh solution and and move forward so we've got something to move forward with also uh I took some notes on the uh conservation ordinance and we will bring back an ordinance we will introduce an ordinance at the next meeting that contains those items that were discussed pool S car washes that kind of thing and we'll introduce and we'll try to get as close as what we heard today I think on introduction you can amend an ordinance a little bit and uh not get into too much trouble but we'll try to hit the mark as close as we can and then we'll amend as necessary at the meeting depending on how the discussion goes so that we can introduce if that's council's pleasure I think that's definitely what you heard today okay okay and also if you can the Downtown Development commission update because it's been bumped a couple of times right okay so if you can do something to tell us where that process is and what's going on absolutely we've got good news there also we will the uh presentation on the tri City's effort that we missed here a meeting or two ago we will try to get that back on for executive session very good okay folks I need to announce that there is a meet and greet uh the city manager candidates at 6:00 we'll need to kind of separate and walk them around and so please take a look the materials that uh Lisa Marley handed out to us gave you a clear indication of the of the schedule so take a look at that and and please be sure we don't all congregate in one room or something of that nature that we're spread out and doing our job as as hosts okay uh and then it's at 6 o' and it is

[3:05:37] here and uh then we have a um the announcement for the public and for ourselves but for the public that there is a special city council meeting to tomorrow morning Wednesday September the 5th 2012 at 9:00 a.m. and so that will be kicked off as a meeting a special meeting and then we'll go into executive session immediately and start more interviews okay so I'll see you in the morning I do have an item that was brought to my attention we had an incident earlier today where there's a gentleman who was carrying a concealed handgun we have no posting We have nothing in the front on the front door of whether they're allowed or not allowed so that's something we need to look into whether you know registered handgun person uh is allowed to walk in here with a gun so okay and um at that point then can we move into a motion for adjournment so move second okay I've got a motion from Mr Adams a second from Mr Morrison to adjourn all those in favor please say I I any opposed an hour okay the time is 50:06 uh we have uh come out of executive SE session where we uh where uh we were in talks and consideration of matters discussed of course in in executive session uh we've been over the past couple of days interviewing five candidates and for our new city manag manager position and uh uh it was a learning experience for all of us and I think we all did well uh came out with flying colors I believe so I am just going going to uh open up open us up into uh Open Session and uh ask for a motion to proceed with uh what we discussed May FR Tim after a significant consideration and meeting with all of the applicants and viewing their qualifications uh I would like to uh make a motion today

[3:07:40] that we uh accept uh Mr Daniel Venezuela as our new city manager I will second any discussions from anyone yes um I'd like to make mention that uh our mayor alenu was involved in all of the discussions and agrees he's he's with us all of us are on board uh so I wanted to add that yes we did have a unanimous vote on uh Mr Valenzuela and uh also am I supposed to ask for public comment on anything or or not not with executive okay was just wanted to add that uh mayor new left just a little while ago with a prior family commitment or he would proudly be here today thank you all right well I'll go ahead and may I just clarify it was not a unanimous vote yet yet we just spoke in executive session and reviewed the candidates and we have decided that this would be a good person if we could get a vote right okay all right well we do have a motion in a second so I will call for the vote all in favor of uh Mr Valenzuela as our new city manager signified by saying I and anyone against all right having no no one against I uh the motion stands Mr Valen motion second well would would Mr Valenzuela like to address please the council free to come and share a few words with us mayor protim uh Council Members First of all I'd like to thank all of you for the trust uh that you've placed in me uh I will work very diligently to make sure that we uh accomplish all the projects we spoke about in in the interview I feel very humbled very blessed to be given this opportunity and again I thank you wholeheartedly my family thanks you also we're looking forward uh to making the

[3:09:44] move uh actually back to West Texas and and again our sincerest gratitude how long is it going to take you Daniel to get down here and be working 30 days it's what I want I know that we have a we have plenty of work to do so I'm looking forward to that thank you sir thank you thank you so much congratulations welcome to S Angelo thank you very much all right now do we I hear a motion motion to adjourn second all right we are adjourned you going ask all those in favor all those all those in favor of adjourning you anyone anyone oppos got one opposition Miss [Music] a

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=3Bmu94r9AYA