San Angelo City Council 3-6-14

[0:00:00] appreciate everyone that has come out tonight uh this is an important meeting because we're going to be discussing where we spend your money so I'm glad to have you here tonight I appreciate it and let's start this off with prayer Portis Ribble would you come up please and Lead our invocation our Holy Father we thank you for the day and the blessings of Life as we come into your presence today with fear and trembling we thank you for everything that you do for us from time to time we know that the light of your presence has brightened our way and we now come to pray for these who are in Authority as you have commanded us to pray for all rulers and those are in Authority we pray for this body that they may remember that they are Servants of the people and not Masters we pray that your wisdom and your spirit will rest upon them as they make the decisions that are best for us bless our nation bless our leaders we pray for our president for our Congress for our judicial system and we pray for your wisdom to rest upon each of them we ask you to send rain on our parched land and remember us and please don't give up on us now we pray in the name of Jesus who loved us and gave himself for us amen amen let's do the pledge of Allegiance now I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all and the Texas flag honor the Texas flag I pledge allegiance to thee Texas one State under God one and indivisible thank you poris we appreciate you I'm going to take care right

[0:02:19] here all righty let me do the read the legalities here to get us started the work session agenda in accordance with the city council rules and procedures all matters listed under the work session agenda are presented for discussion and future planning purposes only no administrative or regulatory action will be taken by the council public comment will not be accepted during the work session and here's the one thing that I want to change I don't like to have a public meeting in a public facility with the public and disallow public comment so I'm going to have count ask the councel if there's three members on this Council that will agree with me that we do need public comment Mr Fleming yes silus yes sir Marty yes Charlotte yes sir Don vman put a 60 on that we will be allowing public comment so anything that y'all have to say anything that you want to suggest anything that you want to add Pros or cons either way you will have your opportunity we'll give you three to five minutes we'll take a we will discuss these items first between the council after the presentation of the staff we will then discuss it with the council so that we have an idea of what we're talking about but before we end any of the items I will call for a public comment area and you will be allowed to come to the podium state your name and we will allow you like to have you stay about three minutes but we will go up to five minutes so I give you three to five minutes so that you can make your comments and we appreciate and we welcome the comments that you have we're going to start off with number one which is please put that in the form of a motion since it is a waiver from the procedure motion to approve to allow the public to speak got a motion I got a second all in favor say I I any oppose nay are we legal now yes Giddy Up have one announcement we do have an announcement Char does anyone and I'll give this opportunity we'll start with the council first if there is any announcements Charlotte anybody else want to talk anything to say I just want to remind the folks out there that I am

[0:04:22] having a town hall meeting Tuesday March 11th at the TLC uh Church Center on Melrose uh I've asked the mayor to attend and he's graciously accepted and the city manager so uh look forward to seeing you there Dwayne yes one of the things that one of the reasons I wanted this meeting so bad was because our our streets are in terrible condition and um these things that we're going to talk about tonight hopefully we can think out of the box a little bit and and get some money for us to to have a a street r inovation some more money than the 1.7 million that we have I know when I was coming over here down Bell Street I probably need a new front end on my on my Mustang now because you you wind up dodging chug holes and and pit holes and everything else just just to get over here so my my whole intention for this is is for us to have the information share it with our constituents to where hopefully we can come up with something that we can get a few more dollars and and uh do what we need to do for our streets along with maybe some other things thank you Don and I drove down uh wash board Howard Street the other day I didn't realize how bad that thing was so we've got a bunch up in our city that could use some repair Shen yes sir anyone from the public care to speak at this time you will be able to we will allow public comment right now on anything that is not on the agenda if you have something that is not on the agenda that you want to bring up to council this is your opportunity I see yes come on up art I'm G to ask you to say your name I won't be embarrass you ask you to spell it all Elkins uh the only thing that I'm concerned about right now is I went to a forum last week out of Lincoln and uh no

[0:06:27] city council reps were there and I'd like to know why the mayor was there but other staff members were there where we could ask questions but why wasn't some or at least one city council member thank you thank you Art Charlotte I can answer it for myself uh I had a previous engagement a full calendar for myself and I can U can't speak for anyone else uh I want to assure you with the public that staff has gone over with us and the various things in the CIP and we are up to date and up to breast the only thing that would be lacking would be the uh citizen output which Morgan is providing that to us that's I can only speak for myself art I was at the one before that that was here and I didn't see you here so we missed each other in the crossfire so we uh uh I had a a previous engagement I'd already already given $100 for a a chicken and so I I had to make that and now mayor and I'll add to that art I was at the one uh the week before myself Rodney Fleming the Mayor Don vman was here Daniel Valenzuela was here Roland Pena and all the staff that spoke so we we see the bigger picture we know what's out there and I know that the same a lot of the same topics were going to come up on the in the the week after I did have uh something come up so I got my taste of uh some of the issues at the the week before so sometimes not hurt true I'll just beg for forgiveness I art I was here also on the Thursday on the first one I think I already told that to you but just for the general public my big thing was I had already had an appointment that I had to make on that evening I made sure that I was at one of those two meetings

[0:08:30] and uh you know I would I'm tried I try as best I can to make every meeting that I can make but sometimes there's just things that come up where we can't make them all but I did make one of them I was glad to see you there art all right if there is no further discussion we will move on to the first item which is discussion and the review of the storm water program and related matters Shane you have the floor sir all right thank you Council I'm going to per the mayor's instructions I'm going to make this fairly quick um I did I told the mayor I did pair it down from 43 slides originally down to 20 21 or 22 so this will be a little quicker than what we originally had basically going to touch on the uh background or history uh the functions within the program uh we'll talk about finances some I know um councilman bman is uh was was very interested in that end of it and then talk about some of the issues that moving forward that that we're going to need to address as we move forward um the reason we're talking about this it all started back in 1972 with Clean Water Act uh when that started the regulation of storm water discharge uh across the country and within the state of Texas 1987 with the water quality Act is when um the state actually received the authority to uh start permitting for the storm water discharges for municipalities and Industrial sites it was broke up into two phases phase one and phase two phase one for municipalities over 100,000 Phase 2 which is the city of St Angelo under 100,000 uh in 2007 that's when the tcq uh adopted uh the the first um the first general permit for Phase 2 cities that's uh that's when we we got our mandate and our direction that we had to start creating our program uh in 2008 uh the city of s Angelo we adopted our um storm water management program and uh we phased that in over the 3 to four period uh time to go to align with the original

[0:10:34] uh State permit which uh was to expire in 2012 in late 09 early 10 that's when the city council adopted the uh storm water utility fee uh to pay for the unfunded federal and state mandates that came down to us um the initial like I stated earlier the initial 5-year permit uh was through August 2012 that from the state um we are currently technically now in our second term or our second permit term uh the state uh took a little while getting their new permit redrawn uh it was redrawn in August so as we move forward in the next uh next two to three months we'll we will actually be coming back to visit with y'all again about some things we need to do to update our storm water management program to align with the new state permit that just came out uh the original our original uh storm water management plan that was that was presented and uh approved by the uh tcq at the State uh it had uh 33 best management practices that addressed uh six minimum control measures I'm not going to read all these here everybody can kind of see them we go through them but this is this is what gave us guidance as to how to direct um how to direct our program and what we're going to do to try to uh meet the um to meet the demands that that we have to meet to to maintain minimum compliance Shane let me ask you a quick question uh remind us what the penalty was for us not having this in place in 2010 in 2010 uh the the penalty or the fine that was associated with it was $20,000 a day for each day of non-compliance right uh with the new permit that has I believe jumped up to 35,000 correct $35,000 a day in the new permit for every day of non-compliance um this is just kind of a a slide as a s success that uh we the federal

[0:12:37] government has watch lists and U uh we actually have throughout our a stream segment throughout town is actually has been on the 303d watch list a portion of that segment still continues but we did the uh the portion there's a segment uh east of Bel Street bridge that was has been uh released off of that 303d watch list so uh we we think our program that we've adopted is doing us some good and we're starting to see some improvements I might can I assume from what the way you said that being on that list is not a good thing that is not a good thing um I can't imagine any federal program being on their radar is ever a good thing so uh we have we it we we have seen a little success there so and also the stream segment just to kind of give everybody an update the Stream stream segment that we do still have that is on the 303d watch list that's due to low dissolved oxygen content and to bacterial content within the water in that stream segment and uh the ucra is going to partner with uh ASU to actually do some research and some studies on the bacterial uh bacterial sourcing and and why we have those there so uh we're moving forward trying to trying to do some work on that as well where is that the Stream segment is from uh basically the north Concho from the Confluence of the north and south and it actually that whole segment actually goes all the way back up to OC Fisher Dam now of course we don't always hold water in that entire area so but that's the actual stream segment that's actually still on the watch list okay uh speaking of the US UC um when we did Implement our program uh so we didn't have to reinvent reinvent a will UC was already doing a lot of the things that we were going to be required to do through through the permit and through the state and through the Mandate so we partnered with the ucra and uh for such things as public

[0:14:40] education classroom education um storm water sampling they helped us create a storm water master plan and uh through that storm water master plan uh they they did some modeling with Charlton State University to help create that plan that we actually go by now and that's what we do we try to utilize the funding that we have for the quality issues uh based off the storm water master plan uh just kind of how the storm water uh how we laid out within the city of course Engineering Services on the on the community development side and then the the guys with their feet on the ground on the operation side um and then of course we go through the engineer and then end the gis we we those functions quite heavily within the city uh engineering is responsible uh for our design functions reporting to the state um and then the you know inspection inspections uh of U construction sites industrial sites things like that and and to manage the interlocal agreement with UC and that's kind of what their function is um the on andm side of things uh which is on my side um a lot of things that we do this General day-to-day stuff uh a lot of mowing uh storm drain cleaning we have 12 miles of small open channels we are still mapping a lot of our larger open channels throughout the city uh as as we move forward as we continue on uh and we have 11 miles we have mapped 11 miles that we have found of underground storm drain systems uh which is quite significant but that's anything from the from the massive system we have in the downtown area all the way to a lot of the coverts and stuff that we have under roadways all through town and some something else one of our biggest things that has probably helped us as much as anything within this the the program itself is one of the bmps is

[0:16:44] the street sweeping program uh we were able to acquire some new street sweepers that are actually a lot more U productive than than our old ones were um and we're sweeping 1,50 curb miles um that that's just one time through is 1,50 curb miles and we are uh annually um we went from about 1,200 tons a year up to being able we're picking up about 4,000 tons per year off the streets so and that we believe that has done us quite a bit of good as well Sean Shane how many sweepers do we have we currently are running five sweepers we over over the over the 3 to four year period as we brought up we we started off with three then we went to four and now at 5 so we've slowly been building up over time so we're at 5: right now and we feel right now that that's that's about where we need to be so we feel comfortable with that um and and right now just we're between a 60 and 90day cycle period uh getting uh each district is about what it takes between each each cycle coming back through each district and that's the reason I get a little uh phone calls when it the streets look like they need sweeping that cycle maybe you know prolongs the time that they come by and and do that but it's good to know and for them to know that we do have five out there and I mean we've got a big area yeah there's there's a whole yeah there's a whole lot of miles and it really in the fall and in the spring when we start seeing a lot of tree litter on the ground we the guys have to slow down and so it takes that cycle starts getting pushed out to that 90-day cycle uh when we have less tree litter and Le less stuff on the ground we can normally keep it in about that 60-day cycle so um part of part of what we do uh in the storm water Pro program are some smaller projects that that we take care of mostly in-house uh a lot of outfall repair you'll see here uh one of the

[0:18:49] main ones that we were able to catch before we saw much much issue was the outfall uh just highlight this one the college Hills and Grand View right there where Grand View ties into college Hills right at the end of that outfall it had actually started eroding under under the outfall in the apron the concrete apron and it had gotten so bad that it was starting to eat out from under College Hills Boulevard and we almost had a collapse on College Hills Boulevard so we were able to catch that and um utilize our in-house guys to to fix that without having to contract it out to a contractor to come in and repair it um of course cul replacement a lot of a lot of uh draining easements and and different things like that that we that we go in there and reshape and clean up uh and starting as we as as we move forward we're going to start a lot more drain cleaning and a lot of the underground stuff uh Capital Improvement projects that we've uh used used our funding sources for um Riverbank stabilization um last last year we uh we provided $587,000 worth of funding for the uh River Bank stabilization which Prim arily went from the portion that we helped fund went from sulfur draw back up to First Street uh below Central High School uh We've uh put 30 um 40,000 to the towards the Avenue PE project um and then red Royal walking trail we have 500,000 that we've set set aside in this year's funding source to help uh in the construction of the retention basins that are going to go along in conjunction with the trail and then other projects that we have kind of uh on hold to see kind of see where our funding is going to go in the future uh dredging of sunset Lake dredging of the Park viiew Lake uh hydronic separators also known as Aqua swirls uh in certain areas along the river where we do see a lot of um a lot of trash wash into the river in certain areas uh kind of in the downtown and uh Central High School kind of in that area

[0:20:54] right in there uh and then really want to start uh concentrating we have we have quite a bit of issues on underground storm sewer system that we really need to start addressing and working on throughout different areas of town um this is kind of just a quick breakdown um some of the things personnel and benefits that that we actually do on the onm side outfall stabilization uh storm sewer inspections construction inspections drain repair erosion control those type things uh fee structure uh the fee structure that was adopted uh um with the storm water management program in 0910 to fund it uh at at the time when we came to council Council wanted us to concentrate only on the uh uh mandated quality portion of it not not actually added an extra additional fee on to address the quantity issues of it so this is the fee structure that uh was approved by council at the time uh you can kind of see it's based on single family residential or non-residential that doesn't include that does include apartment complexes but is also the larger commercial properties whether that be the mall or uh if if you dist on your property you don't have a house but you have a say a barn or some structure on it like that that you're not using to live in U that falls into the non-residential tier structure uh the tier structure is based on uh uh square feet of impervious surface and those are the charges that are related there as well does saisd pay on this yeah they do uh I believe the Air Force Base and Angelo State Angelo State I believe are Exempted from it but the St angeloo does pay the school does pay they don't like it but they pay yeah yes sir um here's uh hit the history of our revenues um 11 12 13 and our projected 14 revenues for this year

[0:22:59] um and we did break it over here down into what non-residential and residential what what the distribution is between the uh between them to come up with our total revenues um you can see last year and this year we are uh we're seeing some increased projection in revenues that's due to the construction and the building that's going on right now and adding uh adding to the fee structure as we have it set right now I thought in 11 wasn't it like 2.9 Million original estimate that we were trying to set up to Pro to support the program was uh an estimated 2.9 when we set up the fee structure we we felt the fee structure based on uh what Freez and nickels had provided for us at that time uh it they were engineered estim estimations at that time of what of what they believed was out there and they thought that based on our fee structure we would receive 2.9 Million uh when it was all said and done and we got sent the bills out and we got got started getting payments back in it U it it only T tallied out to be about 2.5 2.6 we fluctuated a little bit there at the first but that's kind of where we fell out the difference the one thing that uh where the money um the difference where we're making up the difference in the 2.9 uh to where we are now is is we're not putting as much money towards the projects end of things to address the some of the dilapidated drains and the cleaning of the drains the outfalls things like that we're we're having to take those at a slower Pace because the funding the funding wasn't there to address those um so that's that's kind of what's taken the hit from not seeing the 2.9 from the original plan so if somebody asked the balance today the 11 fiscal year 11 12 and 13 is it a total of those three amounts or no these I mean we we have uh these are just our revenues this is I I'll get into the expenses here just a second um currently in for this fiscal

[0:25:03] year currently budgeted um the original budget uh was 2698 uh with um we have projected revenues from actual fees at uh 695 but then we also have some interest in stuff like that that we add for the revenues and so that brings it up to $698 um by the time we uh the amended budget came through when we had the carryover from the the Avenue P project uh 15 um uh, 1500 uh for the Avenue P easement carryover uh that brought this year's amended budget up to 3, 59500 uh current in our fund balance as it stands today we have 1,887 776 um if we look at our 75 day fund balance the to stay along with our policy that we have in the fund balance policy with the city we would take out um 62866 from that leaving us with the remaining fund balance of 1, 25911 this fund balance right now we don't necessarily when and one of the things we did when we created the um the actual uh fee structure and the budget itself was try to create an an equipment replacement fund within this fund so we wouldn't be pulling on the general funds equipment replacement uh money which are lacking uh to some extent as well so we wanted to have this fund be self- sustaining over time um so we wouldn't have to hurt somebody else to to replace the equipment in this one so uh we do have a set aside for equipment replacement right now so uh and we're right now we're rough roughly about 400,000 short of where we should be but we you know we've tried to apply as much as possible to some of these projects that really needed to happen River Bank stabilization for one elaborate on the equipment you're talking about equipment

[0:27:05] is the tractors and shredders we use for mowing the five street sweepers we have a couple of dump trucks and a uh wheel loader for uh debris removal we have a back hole then of course the pickups um for the crews and and stuff like that to get them around Shane how much of those street sweepers run street sweepers right now are about 2 and a qu is what we're paying for each street sweeper right now I believe that's correct Patrick or is he the news yeah he got I think stuck doing the news tonight so but I believe they're two and a quarter is what we paid for the last ones um this kind of breakdown of the expenses of what we of what we try to do as we as we go into to each year uh onm right now is running us about a million 7 uh projects we try to budget about 500 year for projects and then equip this year's equipment replacement was a little higher we're trying to pick up a couple of pieces coming off of lease this year uh coming out of our lease program we're trying to pick those up and actually keep those pieces of equipment specifically for the storm water and uh then that leaves us it should at the end of the year if everything is status quo we should have 137 193 to add to our fund balance for the equipment replacement program this year uh things that we need to look out out into the future with uh as we move forward um we're going to see some increased demands due to the permit changes as we move forward luckily for us in the phase in a as a phase 2 City the majority of these uh changes in the permit that we saw this go around uh with the state permit here recently are very minimal a lot of those are going to be uh changes in how we report and and what we have to report uh we're really not expecting it to cost us any more money at this point point one thing we do have to worry about though is as as our population in the city as we grow over that 100,000 Mark within the city and our population gets over that all of

[0:29:08] a sudden we uh we we go into the next category they bump us up into the up there with the big guys uh and there will be some additional things that we will have to do unfortunately that will probably end up costing us more money as we move forward um we always think growth is good but in this case maybe maybe not so because it it will it will trigger us to put us into that next level and it will cause us to have to to uh fund some more issues a lot what is what is that next level uh Next Level I believe they've changed it Carl will be a it's changed into a phase one two three and four within the new permit process uh we're going to we will move into the phase four which will cause us to increase our monitoring and our inspection program uh substantially probably have to increase even uh with the reporting they're going to be looking more what are we doing to improve water quality and uh and how and how can we prove that and so our reporting and some of the you know monitoring things that we do are going to have to pick way up to accommodate that so uh from where we are right now Carl do you have anything to add are you talking about we're under 100,000 now are you talking about us is the next number the 100,000 and above yes 100,000 and above when once our population here in the city hits that Mark which we're getting fairly close we're not there yet but as we get fairly close next couple of years and you know and we'll we'll see what happens in the midterm census as to see what happens then and hopefully we'll we'll be able to you know skate by and and wait till the to the big main census uh in 2020 but uh as as we bump over that 100,000 uh population Market it's going to cost us some more money to to conform to the to the uh state regulations Shane one of the things I think is going to come up later when we talk about streets is uh uh doing the work ourselves with employees and Equipment versus Contracting can you

[0:31:11] tell us how that works in storm water how much do we do ourselves versus how many contracts do we have the major you can go back and when we talk about all of the uh all of the outfalls and some of the drains and replacing uh replacing the storm drains under streets things like like that we we try to do a lot of that in house that smaller work that we can do with our equipment um and and with our employees and we can and we can fit it in uh to our schedule between Mowing and and some of the other things that we're doing seasonally it allows us time to come back and do a lot of the drain work completing a we're completing a large drain out at uh Red Bluff Circle right now um drainage easement uh Shoring it up where we were starting to lose a lot of lose a lot of uh uh actual bank of Lake nasworthy it was washing it away and pushing it out into the lake so we were silting up the lake so we're going in there cleaning that up Shoring that up a large one with a lot of concrete we're doing all that in house uh as we move forward other things we'll do in house and Engineering side do we do the engineering engineering side we do um do almost well yeah almost all of our engineering to this point has been done in housee the one thing we will come and ask y'all for is is we have to update IR storm water uh uh management plan for the city right now without us having a a city engineer or a I mean a City Engine a storm water engineer um we we'll probably ask to uh let let us go out with an RFQ request for qualifications to get a firm like free and Nichols who did our original one to help us update our plan uh should be a fairly minimal cost but uh without actually having that expertise in house right now uh a with a dedicated storm water engineer we'd really appreciate that help to let us go out and and get that done so um mayor I I I think we faced tremendous competition in the marketplace for engineers right now yes we

[0:33:12] do among other types of employees something else that we that I know council's been very interested in and talked about over time is discussion and not necessarily fees but discussing on how how can we start addressing some of these quantity issues that we're having some of the flooding issues Street floating issues that we have and uh so that's something that we uh that we may want to talk about in the future as as we as we're dealing right now with just quality issues with the funding that we have available how can we acquire funding to deal with the quantity issues in the flooding ahead of course fees are one way to do it so uh and as we move into the future that may be something youall want to look at and address and talk about uh we did you know just kind of highight you know the Freez and nickel study that Master drainage plan that we had done back in 2000 it identified 50 57 issues sign significant issues drainage issues we had in town uh estimated cost 14 years ago was $46 million to correct um my guess is that that cost a day will be significantly more than that um you can see identified the drainage issues are ident been identified all over town as this map kind of indicates drainage issues are are basically everywhere you look um and the highest rank problems Bell Street at coband was number one for 2.6 million back then and then of course West Avenue P Bryant which we are currently working on to address um and then just kind of other problem areas Southwest Boulevard at Red aroya uh borgard campus to Concho uh go all the way down College Hills uh from Sunset down to the red aroya um we know that's a big issue over at Goodell 24th and Blom so these issues these issues exist all over town and U again those are things that we will need to address or will address as as y'all see fit as we move into the future so with that I will be glad to talk about uh or answer any questions y'all might

[0:35:15] have or we can delve off into any of the numbers wherever youall want to do coun Don um some of the questions I had was the bank stabilization a requirement in the plan the bank stabilization is not a specific requirement in the plan it was something that we could do to significantly since the project was already going on it was something that we could significantly do that would have a very positive effect on storm water quality to to slow down and or hopefully eliminate the erosion that we were having in that area so it's just kind of a nice thing that it was it was a project that came up and uh it was a we had fund funding available ailable at that point in time to help assist with that with that project okay um the the red Royal walking trail what's the status of that Carl we're 99.9% complete with our plans we're taking over Tex dot next week uh for their review and and right right now we're on schedule for letting that uh in July okay and how how much comes out of storm water and how much is is uh coming from other places okay well right now our uh the city's portion is just a little under 800,000 is the matching part of a $4 million Grant uh we've got budgeted right now in the in the current budget around 500,000 for out of storm water funds and 325,000 roughly plus or minus that is out a half C sales tax funds okay could could we possibly take all that out of half cent sales tax that I I could put put it on the ballot we could well it talks about parks and walkways and those sort of things in the language on the could could we could we uh chase

[0:37:19] that down and get back to you on how long has it been since we approved that I remember approving that 800,000 approving that 800,000 out of the I looked at that just this afterno I think it like 2011 wow because we approved it one week after we denied 55,000 for the north side Rec Camp I remember it very very well I don't remember the portion the city portion being that high yeah it was 900,000 at first and I think it went down to about 800 well I thought it was 300 but um one of the one of the issues that was talked about early on in that approval was uh part of that local match being made up by private donations for $150,000 the way the budget is set up right now that $ 150,000 is not required but those talks have started for uh developing that resource so the local match the this organization's match could go down to the extent that we're able to generate those um uh actually help those th those private contributions come to fruition but the project is set up so that it can move ahead right now if those don't happen but we we we really very much hoping that they will happen so something wi work on okay um where did you get the the fund balance uh of 75 days of expense that's um just the city City's fund balance policy established I I believe it's a goal our goal I'm sorry goal so it's not Manda no our our we set it as a is a goal but it's not a requirement okay um your onm expenses are 1.7 million if if the council said that you need to cut that in half what would it do to the program it would it would literally gut the program okay now let me ask you this

[0:39:23] if uh um we come in and say uh okay we're driving a Cadillac now what are the bare minimum things that we have to do to meet the federal mandate so that we don't get this $35,000 a day fund right right now based on the the storm water management plan that we presented I believe we are at the bare minimum since we have cut back some of the projects that we said we were going to do uh or try to accomplish within that period um it it's my feeling that we are kind of right at the minimum of meeting what we're what we said we were going to do within the uh within the storm water management plan okay uh and councilman I mean you were a city employee fairly long you know we don't drive Cadillacs but but we sometimes we get a a plan that's above average just you know oh yeah to create a plan that's above average right now the one thing that that we did going into this is the tcq didn't didn't give us a whole lot of guidelines they said you need to you need to create a plan that will go in there and adequately clean up storm water discharge and so this was the plan that we came up with uh through with the help of Freez and nickels um our consulting firm that we used and uh they they felt like that this was the plan that would meet the minimum requirements to satisfy the tcq this is what we came up with and this is what we submitted to the tcq and this is what was approved okay if uh you know to me our our gutter system for our our waterways are our streets for a large majority of of uh purposes can could we use the resources from storm water as far as the equipment some of the equipment some of the Manpower and those sort of things to to redo U our streets could we could we work that into

[0:41:27] our plan right now with with the way we're set up of course I guess we we could utilize uh some of the staff and and Equipment stuff like that is needed to move over to help and assist where we could um we have to of course with the with the funds and the way we're set up right now to meet the meet the mandates right now we we need to make sure that we're improving our quality by doing so so if we do have a street or a gutter system where we we're uh having some erosion issues erosion control issues where we're um uh issues like that that we can address then the funds that we currently have could be utilized for that as we move forward and we actually look forward into U some of the other projects when we start talking about quantity issues and we start looking at uh rebuilding and replacing or actually placing new uh underground storm drains as we do and as we will use our streets uh as the rights of way to do do such when those projects come along of course if we take the street out and and college Hills will be a great example for you uh we know we need a we know we need a lot of work in that college Hills area and it all has to go underground for us to be able to uh actually do something with that area so we would use College Hills Boulevard as a u as as our ride of way to place that underground system in and so as we dig up College Hills Boulevard to place the ongr water system in part of the project part of the cost of the project would be to rebuild college Hills Boulevard over the top of that storm sewer system do do you have any idea if we have our own crew uh the difference in cost per mile square foot however you want to measure it um versus Contracting it down as far as which portion back back to the good old days when when I was going and blowing here uh we uh we had our own Street and Bridge crew yes sir to where they came

[0:43:30] out in once every seven years we had our our maintenance on on every street in town and I'd like for us to get back to that I'm just trying to figure out a way so that that uh we have the Monies to do that without having to to uh raise taxes and I I guess what I'd like to see is you know how much difference would it be money saved uh on us having our own crew versus actually letting out those things for bids and having it contracted C certain certain things that we do in the construction side of things uh doing it inhouse we we can save considerable amount of money over constru Contracting it out uh Park construction uh you know we we've uh proven time and time again we can go in a lot cheaper in a lot of our parks with our own Crews and Revitalize existing Parks uh cheaper than we can contract them out of course it comes down to uh labor and whether we can get the labor and hold the labor and maintain the labor to be able to do that um and so certain things yes we can uh right now mentioning streets uh I've been crunching numbers real hard here lately um trying to see if we went back to trying to do that inhouse if if it would be uh uh feasible for us to do it and actually be able to save money right now um I can't make the numbers work for us right now the costs of materials are so high the cost cost of buying the equipment right now is um equipment dealers apparently are not hurting um because whatever sticker price is is kind of what you're paying right now so the cost of equipment is is is a significant issue right now for us three years ago um I I crunched the numbers three years ago and there was a there was a once you once you hit a certain threshold there actually it there was a benefit to us because equipment prices were lower we're able to get some of our material cost a little lower at that point but right now I I can't make the numbers

[0:45:33] come out in our favor okay and we are talking about storm water on number one so we're just going to play like this came in number two well because Road will be in number two which is capital outlay priority well but it's like I said you know the the gutter system is basically our roadways okay yeah storm storm roads yeah yes sir just for clarity sake Shane and I have talked about multiple levels of service there and I think that conversation had to do just with seal coating is that right Shane yes yes uh a a deeper level of service would be the ability to Mill and overlay is that correct yes and then beyond that would be the ability to completely complete reconstruction yes sir okay and do they fall in that order for ease of getting into the business or and and cost yes sir now the now the mill and overlay and the SE Cod are there is there is more two m in overlay but uh as far as ability to accomplish those those fall within an easier range than a complete reconstruction the key there is that there's a certain level of service for seal coating but there's additional equipment and additional capability that's necessary for each of those additional levels is that right that's correct yes sir now I didn't say that he did okay I just I just I don't want to get in trouble with the legal department okay I'm thir thank you uh Shane I have a few uh objections to tell me your timelines they're not major and I went back and pulled my storm water file to try to bring me up to date for tonight to be able to talk about it I'm just going to read you a few things and like I said the timelines are not major but the dollars is what's bothering me I referred to the minutes of City Council on 219 2018 and in those minutes in the presentation that was given to us about storm um you talked about or Mr Dixon talked about areas of erosion and the underground storm water gutters the that

[0:47:36] needed to be repaired uh since the implementation of storm water fees now in there it said that at that time that y'all had identified 42 different locations due to flooding because of stor storm water and that those 42 uh locations needed to be addressed immediately because of Public Safety and property damage and of course one of those areas was Avenue PE I I definitely recall that and some others were up off of U uh Cornerstone School up in there in that area there were several places I am curious as to how many you said at that time that the city had barricaded or sandbagged those 42 different places I'm curious as to how many of those 42 since the implementation of storm water fees have been repaired how many are left outstanding that you know we spent money on uh it's also o noted in in those minutes that um the fund to fund and operate the maintenance maintenance and operation that you would need at least two to4 million per year for the next five years now on the low side that's $10 million and on the high side that's $25 million to date and I'm just going to give you some of the complaints that I get from citizens about the storm water fee uh you know some people say that uh in the 1210 the 12 2013 senses that s angel came in at 93,00 people with 36,19626 that's $88,000 a month coming in for storm waterer fees that does not include uh any Commercial Business and the fees based on as to what we minimum we should get is a th000 a mil 56,000 per year um in reviewing and looking at expenses uh what I have seen maybe not so much

[0:49:41] that the people have seen out there what they've complained about is not seeing any storm water repair where has the money gone and I don't think maybe we've done a good enough job in letting people know that U as we've progressed in the storm water yes we did the first thing that all noticed that we needed equipment and Equipment had to be purchased because there wasn't any but also in looking back in the 2010 2011 budget and 2009 various monies were dedicated to come out of storm water uh value to supervise storm water 20% of the engineer salary comes out of storm water uh another storm water person and I don't know who the person is but pretty good chunk you know $20,000 a year of his salary comes out of storm water so I was trying to account for um the offset from 2,681 500 the total expenses you know of that a million 12,000 is being spent on personnel and stuff like that and I there's not from my liking a fine enough breakdown in our blue books to show us storm water and the people have complained compl that they've got to go Here There and Everywhere to find out what is exactly charged to storm water and I don't blame them for their aggravation when they have to call me once every 7even eight months because of sunset lakes and not being cleaned up and it wasn't even in the storm water project until just recently and so I find fault with the citizens on that they just want to see an accounting for what they have been paying for and then my other question it will go to Michael is I've I've questioned him before and and he's assured me we're going to talk about it in our budget workshops but I'm looking at 2013 the ending fund balance that was left in storm water uh for September 30th 2013 the million 522,000 I'd ask what happens to

[0:51:47] those monies does it carry over where does it go and I would like to see better use of those carryovers and I think a lot of people out there are wanting they demanding and accounting of what we've been charging and we instigated in February 2018 we accepted and adopted the plan and we started charging for it my figures are off by just a couple of months from what yours were so that's not a big deal but uh I believe that my pledge and my promise back in ' 08 and 09 was to ask the citizens to give us at least three years to average what it's going to take to maintain and operate this plan that was mandated that we have to do but what doesn't set well with the citizens is when they see storm water pickups equipment they're the nicest pickups in the world I thank y'all for keeping them clean but they're the double cab dual cab nice big fancy pickups and uh they don't see that as maintaining and cleaning up storm water so those are the questions that I'm having to address that I'm addressing to you tonight you know from the citizens not picking on you I'm not picking on Ricky I'm just telling you that's what I'm receiving and then the commercial people who pay a much larger fee for their impervious space they're wanting to know you know how many ditches have been clean new culs they don't see that that's under we don't have any film of what you're doing underground okay and that's all I had to say on it well we can start getting more stuff out through Anthony in the public information office and letting people actually see uh cuz we do document with pictures and all that stuff so we can actually get that stuff out there and we can actually let the public actually see what we did thank you Johnny one thing I want to touch Bas on and you know a lot of the concerns that I that I hear and we'll get to it at a later time is of course Bell Street another one that I quite often hear a

[0:53:49] concern is uh and we touched on it that uh don did the riverbank stabilization mhm and I know that a lot of the project that we did there along cono River Irving Street and and all that area a lot of that was half in sales tax money that we'll touch on later but the 587,589 ballot of some type some other halfs and sales tax you know type of uh funding again or do you guys have the capability to continue the bank stabilization because I know that even the the dredging of the river took a lot of the it was a big chunk of money and I'm not saying to Dred the river further east but I'm saying you know that is one of the big concerns right now is the bank stabilization and what can we do to continue it you know back back too long ago we were talking about you know this is phase one and then we talked about phase two and phase three so where are we can we move forward uh and I know the bottom line is funding but yes sir just to educate the public so they understand what we're dealing with yes sir and and phase two is moving towards Bell Street Lake uh in the in the river Improvement projects and Bank stabilization is a huge concern especially right there behind Robert Massie funeral home and areas like that we have uh recently uh well say recently two years years ago we lost large amounts of uh actual soil from erosion in that area actually to the point that we undercut one of our sidewalks in the park right there uh you know so so erosion is and erosion control is a huge issue in that area uh one thing that we do need to address uh as we move forward uh some of these funds as we move forward if Council so chooses and wants to place some of the Project funding from this fund into that

[0:55:53] we can do uh as far as us being able to do that in-house uh with the existing equipment we have that's a little bit beyond our capability with equipment not to say that we couldn't if we had the right equipment but it's a little bit beyond what we actually um actually possess right now to be able to do um something we could do something we definitely need to look at um before we actually lose more um Park property in that area and I I did get a call just a couple days ago uh Sanford uh muton with the Y group that helped out with the uh during the Riverfest he has a large group and he was in contact with Jerry C and speaking of the the part of the river behind Robert Massie this would be prime time for them and they'd be willing to go in there and clean up at least clean up that area you know where the water's where the water's down right now the water is so far down that you can actually go down in there and clean up some of that uh that that river bank so yes sir and I've had I've actually we've had storm water cruises down there trying to to do that as we can uh between projects and as we move along uh certain areas are worse than others and of course we do once a quarter uh storm water Crews do go into the river and actually pull trash from the river once a quarter all the way from 14th Street all the way down to B Street Lake and back up to the water treatment plant well that that is one issue I hear all the time and uh and I I totally I agree you know I I do live on the east side and it does bother me no it it is and that is phase two of the river Improvement projects so as funding becomes available uh I know the city staff is is definitely we're ready to tackle that okay mayor that that that's a good comment we've heard two people talk about specific projects that they're interested in and you know we mayy you did a good job making a fuss about public we want to hear what you have to say but from a staff perspective we need to know what council priorities are also so as we talk about more about CIP projects and what council priorities

[0:57:57] are specifics like that are are very good very much help us move move your priorities to the top of the list so we appreciate your comments when you have specifics like that Mr SE I I've got a couple quick questions I I guess first of all you you there were 43 problem areas originally 40 I believe 46 I believe were identified could 57 57 identified I'm sorry 57 ID could you get us a list of those just I mean yes sir you know just yeah we do we have them right here in this book right here we will get them to you and and then you you said when we go over 100,000 that uh the it changes does the fee structure do we know does that go up or or that that it will be strictly up to y'all that's a council decision at that point it will and a lot of that I I believe will depend on exactly uh as as we if we move over that and we have to update our management plan to address that next level uh of of um maintenance that we have to do to accommodate the changes in the plan uh that'll dictate whether the existing funding source is significant or if we're going to have to increase that at that time okay then then my last question I and it probably wait till till the next item but I'll go ahead and ask it um you said you couldn't make the numbers work on on uh on on our street street street reconstruction or seal coat yes now is that is that is that seal coat only or is that the whole thing you couldn't I I I concentrated mostly on seal coat and I tried to add in Mill and overlay as well too and I I was it it boils down to the equipment material cost at this point okay all right thank you Rodney got most of the questions I was I was going to ask but one of the things that and Charlotte brought this up was about the salaries part of that coming out of the storm water fee how many how many employees

[1:00:00] does that cover that it's coming out of there just the two no the uh salaries we uh portions of their salary not oh portions of the salaries we have the portion of the city engineer uh comes out of it for his oversight of the program we have of course we pay for the storm water engineer on that side we uh I believe we've changed that up a little bit since then uh we were paying a portion of a draftsman salary uh I believe that has changed um recently and then we do also we pay a portion of a halftime of one of the gis Personnel uh to to address those issues and then of course we do uh the storm water superintendent is also our street and Bridge superintendent so his salary is split 50/50 uh 50% general fund 50% storm water fund um and then I believe the rest of the Sou iies are all full-time full-time staff right now okay and then again just to going back over the 100,000 Mark which I anticipate we probably will be over the 100,000 Mark next year on this just to make it clear we probably there is going to be a lot of extra expenses that are going to be involved when we go over that is that correct yes sir from my understanding our our level of what we're doing now is going to have to increase especially in the monitoring and the um the monitoring storm water event monitoring and the also the monitoring of the construction sites and Industrial sites at that point should we now be planning for that we're starting to we we um Carl and I have uh started looking at the the requirements for the phase four or the class four cities now to see exactly where our plan fits in place and where we think we're going to have to beef up our plan at that point so and again we'll we'll be talking around with some other people as well to see what they're doing uh in those in in those either phase one or class four cities however

[1:02:04] you want to uh classify them as and and the last thing that I'll say is that you you said at earlier that you were going to get with Anthony I really think that we should be putting all those projects out there especially when we complete them and show them Charlotte's right show them exactly what the dollar amount is and show them exactly what we did CU you you know I've seen a couple things that you've done in my district recently and those people are really are thankful that those things were done but uh only a few people see that you do that and after the Project's done within couple of days no one ever knows that it was done yes sir I mean and a lot of the outfalls that we do are not noticeable by most people as you drive down the road you don't know that it's there and Charlotte's she's right where everybody thinks you know what what are we doing with this money where's all this money going to and I I think a lot of people just weren't didn't realize that there are fees or there are penalties is tied to this if we weren't doing this program and they're very significant fees even yeah even at the the last fee at $2,000 a day if you didn't do that for a year I mean that's $9 million so yeah there's no way we could do it yeah and and if if you're if you ever think anybody's not serious about charging you that fine you can call the city of Dallas and ask them I thought that fee was 25,000 it the or the it was it was $20,000 a day now it's bumped up to$ 35,000 in the new permit they hit Corpus Christie with 25,000 a day back then I do remember that it was a sizable yeah the city of Dallas uh by the time they got through negotiating out it cost the city of Dallas 3 million yeah I would think with more people the fees would go down more C and as and as we see and of course it depends on I guess they're living whether it's an apartment complex everybody's crowded into or if it's if it's single family residences uh it kind of changes especially larger single family residences at that but we we have seen in in our Trend we're starting to

[1:04:06] Trend up over the last two years as we've seen more construction here in town any other Council discussion yes sir just one thing I don't misunderstand me when I telling you what I was telling you was coming from the citizens what I have seen since the meeting of February 2008 uh Mr Dixon came to us with a well uh designed plan plan and just ask that we stay on plan and give the time to produce and that's what I sold to my constituents over the storm water fee the plan has being implemented and I wanted to ask you where you thought we were in the phase one two and three and how close are we to The Five-Year Plan and schedule that was established and approved by Council in February 2008 but the main thing is yes we've done a lot with education letting the people know but the full extent such as how the mowing affects the soil erosion and affects the storm water and the burms you now see more burms around all the construction sites that we didn't see as many as before which affects our storm water quality and stuff the people are not seeing that because maybe they're not living in the area where the work is being done like said and so more emphasis on the education to bring this about that this is how your money is being spent it's not to just buy brand new pickups because because my statement was that to my knowledge we only bought two pickups out of the program and uh they have to have something to work out on yes ma'am they have we have to get them from point A to point B and we will we'll we'll start doing a lot more and and one one of the emphasis that we're moving forward was since we have seen so much more construction here in town we're seeing a lot of land clearing and things like that uh we're working right now with Christy uker over at the ucra uh we're going to start trying to uh uh Reach Out out to the Home Builders Association uh to the realtor Association to to let people know and possible land owners if they're trying to prep land for uh selling their land that if they if they're here in the city limits if you're just going to go out

[1:06:09] and clear a lot of brush and it's over an acre that they have to file a uh storm water um prevention plan uh with us in the State uh before they actually start doing that work and make sure that they have all of their um either silk fences up or or one of their uh one of their bmps up to actually prevent the erosion uh and water from running off of that property as well we're really going to start beefing up our uh our education in that area and aren't we doing that now with commercial they're putting in more of the rock to filter the trash and the water that's being required the city is doing that I don't think people realize that that's being done at new construction type stuff to help the storm water it's yes it's it's taken it it's taken off uh we've come a long ways we're like I said we're still doing some mapping we're still finding things out there that we didn't even know existed and so um as we move along we're we're continuing to do more and more and and do better things so but we'll actually start I'll work with Anthony and we'll start getting some of this out I have tons of pictures before and after that are just hard to believe and so uh as we move forward we'll start getting that stuff out to Anthony and and informing the public mayor yes sir did we start right at 5:30 yes okay we've we've been at it 68 minutes now this but one last thing I had I I want I want Clarity on this in 2010 it was mandated to we do this okay now are you saying that once we hit the 100,000 population threshold it's up to us this Council whatever council is here to implement fees raise fees leave them or drop them or is that what you're saying it will be the the mandated part is a mandate mandates us that we have to clean up our water right uh the fees that we are established to to do that and make that happen are set by Council so uh as we move forward uh and we get over that 100,000 population and uh our responsibilities increase we'll start we

[1:08:13] will look at that plan we will modify our existing plan to make sure that we are in compliance uh with the state and federal requirements and then we'll come back to y'all and let y'all know whether it's something that we can absorb and if we absorb and if we absorb it under the current uh pricing structure this is what you're going to you know from the project side of things this is what you're going to lose or if it is such a burden that we're going to have to come back and increase fees we'll let y'all know uh and then it'll be y'all's decision as to what and how much and when I'm good yes sir uh Shane just for clarity what I'm hearing is the unfunded mandate increases how we pay for it as our business is that right yes okay anybody body else from Council let's open it up to the public Harry Thomas a community volunteer first of all I want to say thanks to Shane and and and the city staff for doing what what's mandated by the federal government and tcq uh but one of the things I want I want to say is what Rodney just said tomorrow next week next month whenever it's going to be we're going to hit 100,000 we better start planning today for whatever that increase is going to be so with Shane and Michael and Carl we we better have some updates within the next few weeks because we're talking about what we're trying to put together for 2015 budget year and folks that ain't too far away and I can tell you more than likely we're going to be at that threshold that $100,000 100,000 population threshold within the next several months thank you thank you Harry Turner yes my name is Jim Turner and just to put some of these numbers in perspective for comparison the storm water fee that we're seeing collected right now is roughly equivalent to about 6 cents worth of property tax and it is

[1:10:19] to a very large extent a property tax it's based not on property value but on square footage area of imperal uh material and because of that the fee is going to have to be adjusted property values go up over time so the amount collected as Prosperity sits in will go up your storm water feed isn't going to go up because unless uh somebody like uh Walmart enlarges their parking lot you're not going to get more money off of the same property even though the value of properties went up so this these fees are going to have to be readdressed periodically just to make up for the fact that uh things have changed you've had inflation uh cost of materials labor fuel has went up but you're still basing it on exactly the same item you were before and that hasn't changed so the people will have to be restructured periodically that probably needs to be done annually and it as part of the budget cycle needs to be done second issue that I hear of time to time within the storm water ordinance there are actually some rebate Provisions in there for doing things to improve your storm water picture rain barrels lot of commercial businesses are doing uh storm water retention and capture to make sure that they don't have this runoff that ends up including they're getting a rebate right now I don't see any easy way for citizens who are doing the same thing on residences to benefit from the same program and if we want people to be doing this and we definitely should have them because it reduces the cost of the city we need to make sure that that gets out there gets implemented better right now if I wanted

[1:12:23] to put in a rainwater capture system on my house I don't see any clear way I don't see any established procedure to get a rebate for doing the right thing thank you any further comment then I suggest we take a little break it is 6:44 start at 659 let's go to item number two update on Capital outlay priorities Tina Bell and marget go ahead ma' good evening sir um in light of your request we're going to keep this brief uh what I have before you in your PowerPoint is a listing of all the capital Improvement projects that have been submitted so far uh your agenda item today is very Broad and uh we happen to be in the time of year where we're planning our our annual CIP and so we have that information available to you I can go over that briefly or if you have some priorities that y'all want to start with going down the line um what's before you is each project in the IP there are 74 projects uh with a total cost in excess of $311 million I think we talked about that briefly last meeting um and so each project is listed here uh for priority sake it's it's easier for us to to narrow in on items that are funded we can move past items that are not funded we can talk about the need for funding and so that's how I've organized today's presentation but it it certainly I can hit the high points or or just go ahead and turn it over what pleasure Council high points oh totally H put a green on that first one and move on yeah I heard there I heard a citizen ask about that man that bail street is terrible I hear about that every day from someone yes sir and and and I have them here as bullet points but really all streets will be considered together as we move forward we're going to do a study study a survey pretty quick quickly to get some hard data there on on which streets are are in the worst shape which streets are traversed the most and so this first

[1:14:25] slide that you have here before you are all streets that we are aware are f are passed their useful life and failed however um we have more data that will be coming on all city streets and also the Reconstruction of 29th Street so those first handful of of items there before you are all streets um but we are aware that there's a greater issue than just these streets here before you today I thought 19th Street was was funded look at the sidewalks on 19th sure I apologize these this slide right here Plus 29th Street then starting with 19th Street I have it as unfunded I apologize um I believe this is coming to you next meeting to talk about taking it from the 1.75 million that we allocate every year for Capital and we'll make that change at that time yeah she has it as unfunded because she has not executed a budget amendment for it and that's why she counts it as unfunded we've got your direction to move ahead on it she's just counting it as unfunded because she hasn't taking the official action okay so it's only a total of $311 million that's all yes sir and your your Bell Street sir is 8.4 million of that but you know can I touch on that real quick yes what is if if if Bel Street was the only one on the list how fast can we do it how could we do it you know I'm ask that every day every week what what what would it take Johnny we've got some specific funding strategy options for you that we want to cover um can we can we come back to that question sure all right let's come back to it keep pushing that forward button Morgan you keep pushing that back button sorry I apologize um the rest of these on this uh page are mostly Grant funded um storm water quality we've talked about earlier remediation of uh uh Avenue P drainage that's funded or restricted funds I'm sorry I said Grant funded I mean some restricted funds have been tied to those other accounts on this page every single item is funded um by the restricted funds that are in the water capital um same thing here water capital and

[1:16:27] Wastewater Capital funds are available to execute all of these projects here the first few projects you see there in green are airport projects that are Grant funded um those are restricted items that can only be used for airport um and we're moving forward with those the next few items there that you see there are in red they're unfunded items at the fire department um items that need our attention that need some funding tied to them well there are three red items there uh SCB air packs I'm not prepared to to talk about tonight but we are going to talk about fire station 4 reconstruction and fire training facility we do have plans in place for those and we'll talk about those here in a few minutes and in the chase State Office Building those are funded through the lease income that happens there um these top items excuse me in red here that are unfunded are mostly from the police department um software Hardware um facilities and other items uh that are not yet funded uh the police department admin building that's part of what what Mr DNE spoke about we're going to talk about a little while later um when Tina gets up here about issuing some debt and some options on that uh the last two items you have there Auditorium renovation is largely funded by your type B sales tax and we'll move forward and the Coliseum roof and improvements is largely funded by your excess Hotel occupancy tax so those are ready to go Morgan one of those things there the the boat dog I'm going to bring this to the council here probably in the next meeting or next two meetings about the boat dock the police boat dock and I would like to take it out of this which would be good for you guys and use the lake nasworthy fund to help pay for that I've been talking with the residents out there and the homeowners association and and they're definitely in favor of doing that and seeing if we could save the city and use that money the way it needs to be used that's a really good project that would be uh using those funds the appropriate way which boat that do they don't have a we don't have a police boat dock out at the lake right now our boat is actually in storage and anytime there's an emergency we have to send a a uniform officer with a pickup out to the storage

[1:18:30] building take the boat out of storage go and trailer it put it in the water it takes an extra probably 20 to 30 minutes each time that that happens so it's not a good thing we need to have and we're talking about using the lot that's right off the the uh the bridge there's there's the where the Cottages are there's a lot right next to it where we have a water intake I think Ricky Ricky knows about that we don't use that anymore I don't believe talking about putting it on that lot right there so it'll be real convenient to the bridge and everything that's I don't want to go too much in depth on that but at least we're taking something off the list something red yes uh then you have the convention center improvements we're looking at funding a portion of these through excess Hotel occupancy tax dollars but there are some greater needs there as well about $150,000 worth um the next few items are Fort Concho improvements uh for contro staff has indicated that they're going to seek private funding to assist with those items and so we're moving forward uh with with hopefully matching those dollars together with projects um and then Fort Concho and one fort Concho project that we don't think we can identify private funding for uh wave finding phases we've talked about funding this with excess Hotel occupancy tax however we' have not yet executed anything so that Still Remains on the list as unfunded and then we get into the Santa Fe train depot improvements um those are substantial at $150,000 uh not yet funded spur parking garage another item of facility about $2 million needed uh to complete that project uh the items in green that you see on this page are mostly funded by your type B sales tax so uh those will be able to move forward uh the recreation center air conditioning the splash pad South Kono Park and dog park uh do need additional funding coming towards them and I believe Carl white has more information on some of those items coming to you in a future agenda item I think later this month then on to some more Parks

[1:20:33] projects uh most of these items are funded by uh type B sales tax or by a potential grant that we're going to uh research for example for the civic league park improvements uh the Fairmount Cemetery I have that in red because we spended 316,000 of that for the first two set of colum barium there is uh it's a total project of 600,000 so there is a substantial amount of that project not yet funded and then Rio Concho Community Park uh not uh about $85,000 of this $650,000 project could come from type B sales tax uh the remainder would need to be uh researched and and vetted the South Concho boat ramp uh we is about $438,000 project and uh Carl white is looking into a grant for that item uh nothing yet secured but we're going to leave that in green until we know more information and then the remainder of these items in in red uh needing funding uh the public information equipment replacement we do have a grant for about 16,000 uh but there's another $31,000 excuse me $31,000 needed uh to complete that project and then some other technology needs um the the mobile data terminals are at the fire department and the other items are Citywide um it items and those are your 74 projects and so um with that I know that Tina has some information about funding and matching resources to this or we can break it up and and take notes at this time whatever is your pleasure mayor we what Tina is going to talk about we've got some big ticket items namely streets uh streets are the ones we hear most about and we're we got some funding strategies or some financing strategies we just want to talk about before we move on to that if you got questions about those projects that Morgan just went through now would be a good time do we have any any questions about it Council Johnny the civic league park is that the where the Lily ponds are I was asked it just reminded me a couple of days I was asked

[1:22:36] about we had voted well I think I voted against it the big tree that was supposed to be chopped down did it ever it's still there it's still there and I think that's prohibiting them from doing their thing or we can talk about it later it just now down on anybody else give us some money Dana would you like to address us now please ma'am kind of Hit the high points than good evening mayor and council members um so I just want to try to give you some funding options for some of those things we see in the the project the uh proposed Capital Improvement project plan um we've heard a lot tonight and we've heard a lot from Council at other times that streets are a high priority so that's one of the things that we focused on uh we we started with a number and tried to figure out a way that we could work together to fund those issues through either debt or cash or you know other opportunities we may have the number one thing we hear about is streets yeah and uh 157 million is a huge number so we we tried to pick a piece of that and and see how manageable some of that money would be and so that's where we started so some options we would have for funding would be to stagger some issues over intervals uh we de issues some debt issues I'm sorry yes over intervals um we could also do a lump suum issue or we could use cash to fund some of those issues um in all of the uh proposals that I'm going to present to you tonight we've included $5 million for a potential a police station Rehabilitation $2.5 million for the fire station and uh the it'll be between 1.4 and $2.2 million for the fire training center we don't have concrete number on that yet we're we will soon but as you'll remember that portion will be funded by uh $200,000 a year in ambulance Fe revenues one of the keys here is the uncertainty associated with the police department

[1:24:38] facility uh a few years back when we started this plan we we put $5 million in there it was the 5 million was never intended to create a new facility it was very much a number to throw at a remodeling effort but we don't have enough information uh to have certain direction on that but we didn't want to ignore the project completely so we left 5 million in there like the plan had originally and and we'll kind of come back to that in one of the scenarios here in a few minutes but remember that we're going to talk about three or four different scenarios every one of them includes the new Fire another new fire station fire training academy and this 5 million that was originally identified for PD admin or remodel okay so the first option we have here is to issue $40 million in debt it would be a staggered issue um at every two years so that would be $8 million per issue um some of the advantages of that would be that it would stretch your your payments and your money over time um and for a project like streets this might be a good option because you know we can't initiate and complete projects immediately so it takes time to complete them anyway so um this option can also be paid for uh with existing capacity initially in about 10 years or so we would have to find a penny somewhere within the tax rate to fund to fund it from there on our our assumptions moving forward we try to be conservative it's very possible we could grow into that extra Penny and not have to do it the key here is $40 million available for streets over the next uh N9 or 10 years uh five debt issues $8 million at a time uh 8 million every other year which would allow engineering to allow us to select a project uh design it bid it and get it started uh and then start the cycle over again uh with another 8 million in two years um the the benefits here is this can largely be done without

[1:26:44] you know one of the things we've talked about uh are the need is the need for more money for streets this can be done within the current tax rate structure except for that 10-year growth item that we're kind of disclosing here and uh without uh you know one of the things that uh we've heard from councilman vman is the possibility that uh actually we've heard it from more than more than just councilman vman the possibility that we that we might try to use a portion of the half cent sales tax this is capacity which exists before we get into that additional Revenue source so this is somewhat a if you want to do it now and not touch anything else you've got this kind of capacity um and with adequate growth we may not need that penny in in 10 years but we just wanted to be fully disclose it fully that that it's a possibility so now the the challenge here is 40 million is not 157 million right I move for approval how bad does that strap us though for these projects that are that are coming on the horizon of especially water projects very good question that you know uh when the rating agencies reviewed St Angelo in the past we one of the consistent comments was relatively low debt load a couple of things have happened in the last few years is we issued $120 Million worth of bonds for the Hickory project and the school district issued some bonds for for their Capital plan um that has gotten the attention of the rating agencies and now they they talk about they don't say we have a high debt load but when we tell them that in addition to that we're working on a long-term water supply we're working on a streets strategy um and we've got these smaller issues that we're talking about fire station and that we've got the possibility of a a police station uh they say they begin to talk about this debt load could turn into something that

[1:28:47] gets our attention and so the the the question is valid uh what what level is too much and the question is what is our commitment to Levy the fees and rates necessary to fund The Debt Service and and so it it you know we're you know you're always when you borrow that money needing to ask the question is is the risk you take on when you take on that debt worth uh worth it uh in order to get the assets and we're going to talk I'm sorry we're going to talk about a non debt strategy and what its relative buying power is uh here in two or three more slides okay so a second option would be to issue $50 million same concept stagger uh at intervals of two years which would give you 10 $10 million per issue uh again the pro is that it it stretches your money and payments over time um uh and then the other the the con would be that it would require additional funds for payment we cannot do this within existing capacity it would um require two cents U to fund this one a few years back years ago our strategy was to use 10 10 cents uh on the uh interest in sinking fund portion of the uh property tax rate a few years back we segregated that we reduced it to 8 cents and moved the two cents Into Cash pay as you go type Capital you remember the 1.75 million that exists in the general fund that initially was smaller than that that group partially because we took that 2 cents and put it there as cash pay as you go rather than using it on the debt side you could take that two cents back out of that and fund 50 million again this same strategy same pluses and minuses as the 40 million it's just 50 instead of 40 and you've got that two cents that needs to come back out of that cash in about three or four years that would yes question I've got a quick question you

[1:30:50] just you just said that you know our debt load and the AAA rating or and when it gets their attention is that good or bad or what are you saying it it's not good it's it's not that it's bad but they want to see that as those debt loads increase they want to see that we're more actively managing more responsi to to to negative economic conditions for example uh couple of meetings back Tina did a presentation where she talked about the stress the financial stress that is that she's seeing in the water operating fund financials because we're not selling as much water as as we usually do uh that's good management it's good management that she and Ricky spotted it they're working on the budget issues associated with it and it's good that you said you all right you have our attention let's watch it and bring it back to us uh in a little while the rating a agencies want active management like that so then the the bonds that were issued by the school district is does that have a negative effect on the not necessarily negative but it it does affect our taxpayers ability to repay all in it right they don't just look at us they look at the debt load across and our debt affected their ratings also okay or it affected the opinions on their ratings sh up well it just bothers me the con side would require additional funds for payment you know as the comment that I made Tuesday I wanted to be very cautious about any spending of any Capital Improvements we move forward until we have a little bit better idea where we're going to be waterwise and if we're going to have to purchase water in various ways which brings me to the question if we had four $10 million issues out there I would think that that would harm us whenever we made application even to the state uh rainy day fund to assist us with some of our water needs if we had this much debt outstanding out there I'm just throwing up a caution it it to the extent that it

[1:32:53] affects affects the uh uh rating agency's opinion of our financial condition it can affect uh the rate interest rate that we pay so again this is much the same as the 40 it's just pushing a little harder pushing a little little harder to to generate more money for streets show us something good on option three okay I'll try so the third option would be to issue a a $30 million lump sum the good thing with that is that you get all the money up front um it would be good for for something like a big project like maybe a complete new police station or something like that um the disadvantage to that is that we currently don't have a plan in place for that and so we'd be paying you know interest on debt that we can't really do anything with yet so uh this this one actually could be paid with existing capacity throughout the term this one is important because uh we're getting ready to talk about the the potential associated with the same monies it takes to repay this debt what if we took those same monies and use it in a in a cash pay as you go program so you can have in you know scenario three is you can have 30 million UPF front and you can figure out what you want to do with that uh and this is roughly a 25e payback 20 this this advertis 27 or 28 all right and so this next scenario is the cash equivalent of this in other words if we if instead of borrowing the money and dedicating a certain amount of money for Debt Service we just take that Debt Service money and throw it into a every year into a pay as you go kind of a cash plan all right so that would be that looks like 1.6 million up you know initially for about five or six years gradually increase to about 1.9 million by the 15th year after that it's about $3 million so for the first 15 years you're at less than $2 million a year in cash that you can use towards Street

[1:34:56] projects whatever project you want to use it for but but you're limited there so and the difficulty here is uh Johnny you asked a question earlier about Bell Street um I don't recall what the latest estimate for Bell Street is I think it was4 million is that so we would in this case we would save up for five to six years and then pay cash for for doing Bell Street and actually in in that time frame that we'd be fighting inflation so we might have to go one extra year to cover the inflation associated with it and so while we uh aspire to uh lower debt levels it does affect the ability to execute projects sooner rather than later so you save it up for that length of time and then pay for it that's that that's what we if we didn't that's what you would have to potentially do yes that's what that scenario dir dirt road by then you be riding on rocks by then that's the challenge we face and and the the the lesson for us is the same lesson for an organization this size as it is for us individually at home and that is if we if we don't want to borrow the money we should save up up front set that money aside ahead of time I think we had one somebody talking about a rainy day fund earlier this year yeah but that makes sense it lasted a month no you've got a little bit of money in there I think there's $30 left in I think there about $5,000 in there but that kind of thing makes sense uh whether you're talking about your personal finances or uh a larger organization like this the challenge is when you're attempting to provide service to to a group like this what is the group's uh preference for uh for for how we Finance those should we Finance it by waiting for six years and saving up or should we go with another Direction I don't know that we can wait another 20 or 25 years and save up money for a police station though it's clear that we can't pay as

[1:36:59] we go on our streets or our police station I mean that's that's clear to me and I think the citizens have got a pretty clear picture of that also because it just takes too much money we borrowed $20 million in 2000 for for water lines when does that pay out and I know it's different departments but still it will take away from overall debt and then in uh 26 we bought another 19 18 million for Wastewater when do those pay out seem like we put them on 20 years didn't we Charlotte I think so I think we put that that Wastewater on 20 years but I wasn't here in 2000 I don't know what they put that one on that first one I know was 20 years and I don't remember what the the com the combined Water waste water item was we put it on we put that I know we put that in on 20 years because we debated it and it was it just wasn't that much more to go with 20 over 25 or 30 the the way our our debt structured is there any way that we could take those combine it get a lower interest rate on it and then come out on the backside uh that's a great question the answer is yes and to a great extent we already do that okay uh one of the things uh just like when we borrow personally we we when we borrow personally we pledge collateral we uh we pledge revenue streams and so uh the best pledge you can give is a pledge of ADV valorum taxes and uh the next best would be Revenue uh revenue bonds you you have an amount that you're required to set aside each year and it's money that you hold so that if you don't generate the revenue you you've got it there uh and you pay a little higher interest rate generally what we do is is issue with the the property tax pledge and it gets the rate down and uh but then we fund them we fund The Debt Service through the Enterprise funds for example there's a property tax pledge against our water debt but we actually fund The Debt Service from water revenues and that gets us the lowest interest

[1:39:00] rate uh that we can get at the time we issue so the answer is yes and the answer is that we've already we already work that strategy so okay what do we have that we could sell as far as our our our city property and city city things what do we have that we could sell water if we can get water we any water we have no water to sell that's that's the problem we have well and that's a good point and to the to the extent that the water fund uh financing strategy exists it it exists based on a strategy for selling water and that's why that fund is Str but we we do have we do own property the city owns property how much that's true how how much property do we have and if we were to sell this what type of funds are we looking at looking at why don't we follow up I I think it's not going to be that significant but it's a good idea whether it generates a lot of money or not to to get that property into private hands where it we don't need to be ta can be paid City doesn't need to be in a real estate business anyway so if we could sell that property and add it to our infrastructure I'd be glad to look at that all right I know I know a $900,000 property we do have one but that goes back into the uh absent sales tax yeah and that one is uh got a I guess it'd be a letter of intent associated with it so it might be might be uh moving along is there's a lot of land out there at City farm we could sell why don't why don't we uh why don't we follow that up with a council agenda item at some point we'll we'll uh get GIS and legal uh the real estate portion of legal to work together to bring us back some kind of a summary and uh we'll look at those issues now I believe this is our last slide right yes sir so I'm after putting all that pressure on you I'm going to give you a little relief and say we don't need a decision tonight what we'd like you to do is think about what your priorities are and what your preferences are uh for uh

[1:41:04] minimizing debt uh pay as you go versus timing of the projects uh I know Daniel's still trying to work up a uh a retreat so that we can set priority and uh just like earlier when we were talking about an individual issue and we had two council members give us specific guidance on what their priority was for a couple of storm water projects uh some specific guidance some goal setting here uh when Daniel when you and Daniel meet to talk about goals would we would appreciate that um Daniel came in talking about uh the knowledge that you know the ability to go through a a seven to 10year plan to rehabilitate rehabilitate a large portion of streets was possible I think what you're seeing here is that is possible and it becomes a question of uh how do we do that and how do we uh how do we move through that and and obviously it's got to be a priority for Council to step into step into additional debt questions Council any more Johnny no I just like the fact that that we still have that option of using a portion of that HS and sales tax money to to add to this and we're going we're going to talk about that on item number we've already got already got plans to talk about that when Roland gets up here did I make my hour and 15 minutes you did very well we have public comment on this one come on up Harry yeah Harry Thomas I certainly appreciate uh the staff updating so we understand a little more uh I want to kind of direct to councilwoman Farmer on her comments both today and on Tuesday about watching how we fund some of these Pro uh these projects about starting uh the specific dollars holding them back um

[1:43:08] there are some of these projects on the CIP plan that are funded that are using other funds like the hotel occupancy tax funds that are specific to those things and I would say that we probably ought to move forward on those those projects simply because they come from a different different fund and they're directed by by State Statute to for those specific items and they're not limited to their they're not specifically to roads or infrastructure issues so I'd like to see us move forward forward on those those particular items uh that we've already uh approved to do that uh second thing I'd like to say is as as we look at the funding options to try to do some of these these items uh it's it's pressure from both directions and Dwayne you know this you know you've heard it all the streets in this this community are in dire need of getting getting fixed and I understand that we've already uh have a lot of money out there that we've that we have to pay back because we've we've borrowed doing this we certainly have to find ways we can't wait another five or six years to fix Bell Street $8.3 million today will be 12 plus million dollar in six years we've got to do what's right today for the citizens of of this city but in the same token we've got to do it in such a way so you have a challenge in front of you and I appreciate the fact that we had and I certainly appreciate that we've got uh some of these staff members uh to show us options thank you thank you Harry May uh yes thank you Mr Thomas for pointing that out which I apologize for not making it clear Tuesday or today I do understand the other sources of funding but we must be very very careful when we point out to the citizens yes we don't have money for new police station but this money over

[1:45:10] it comes out of different pots and they don't understand and we we've got to be careful in explaining that situation thank you and I'd appreciate that I mean I I I think and we said it before uh the earlier presentations on storm water the most citizens do not understand these things we've got to do a better job of somehow addressing that through the media or whatever the ways so thank you I appreciate that there was another man walking up Jim You' be next state your name you've got three three minutes okay my name's Miche C steel and uh Johnny knows me very well I ring his phone once a week about out Bill Street I lived in the base area all my life and worked at ethon or still work at ethon for 34 years so I drive that street twice a twice a day sometimes four times a day and it definitely needs some help I mean I plan to retire in about six years so hopefully it gets fixed before then because I I don't want to have to be going around the loop to go to B to to work every day but I just like I told Johnny it needs to be fixed I mean I know like she said we got money that's tight and I just that's all I can say thank you buddy yeah I hear it every day as well mayor if I may add I I appreciate Mike G he does uh call me up quite a bit and I appreciate the Ed Lopez out there and the Harry Thomas and the art Elkins and and even my wife Rags on me too because she has to drive that road so I just just let you know we certainly are hearing and we know you know we know out there we're trying and I think we we'll make it work here I don't imagine m s likes it either does she pardon me does Mrs S like Bell Street she won't drive down okay okay turn to your time buddy yes I'm still Jim Turner I one of the things I think that needs to be

[1:47:14] cleared up is really what the capital Improvement plan and the capital budget is all about it is not describing a separate funding mechanism it is describing long-term projects that historically cities across the world have ignored until Bridges fall down and buildings collapse and water mains break and we had a couple incidents a few years ago that really brought the problems with that approach to the four they were waiting and they'd do everything including all the candy store projects and if there was any money left over they'd fund capital capital projects they'd build a new fire station whatever and that wasn't St Angelo that was the attitude of most cities on the planet the capital budget the capital Improvement plan is there so those are looked at before you have a chance to ignore this stuff that is going to have a long-term impact your project out at Lake nasworthy no matter how it gets funded needs to be on that capital budget so it can be tracked through its entire life cycle including the next time when it needs to be updated again the fact that it gets funded from a dedicated funding source same thing happens at the airport the runways out there that's a federal fund but it's a city project and it needs to be accounted for the public needs to know about it exactly the same way as any other project because it's our tax dollars at work and it needs to be managed with a lot of Spotlight on it a lot of public involvement and one of the best things we did when I was on the uh Charter Review Committee was get the capital approvement plan part of the charter so it has to be there you can't forget these capital projects because if you do like has been done historically the city falls down literally thank you any other public comment come up

[1:49:21] Richard I'm limited you to three minutes too you like to rest Richard Bardo former city councilman now Rodney Mr F last Tuesday's meeting when they were up here talking about those houses they're going to sell and they were talking about zero interest you didn't like that no I don't either I've worked for everything I've got okay now they say when y'all are brainstorming governing body like you folks and somebody comes up here with an idea listen to it and they say when you come up to a table with an idea you need to be prepared to relinquish ownership of that idea so I'm going to leave it here when we were approving the sale of the lake lodge okay there waser many people that bought them but you you got a lot of people that want them and you know that you said and I agreed with you you got to bring those people up here y'all are going to be faced with this again okay I don't believe that the councilors that decided to go into the real estate business were smart or I'm not going to say they weren't smart they didn't think about it or somebody didn't but you think about this okay you mayor says what do we got to sell okay what about those lake lots but think about this now I'm not a real estate man you are and Michael I've always looked at you at at a financial wizard I I have what about if you all decide to get those people give those people an opportunity to buy those lots kind of like a rent to own

[1:51:26] deal they can't come up with the cash that's why they didn't buy them when I was on the council and we approved the sale of them fair market value they're leasing them they've got an opportunity to renew the lease when it comes up so just think about it that property is city property if those people are interested that's the collateral that we have have it's ours belongs to the citizens of St Angelo Texas why don't you think about getting them to to get them like on our rent to own lease to own and come in with some interest and let them pay it out think about it thank you further comment let's move on to item number three that will be Roland Pia this is update on the allocation of half cent sales tax funds related projects and related matters and I will say Roland before you even get started I still want to see it and I think Don and Rodney agree with me and I don't know about the rest I still want to see an 8 cent of the half cent sales tax on the November ballot for the people to approve that would give us a dedicated amount of money into the road fund each and every year now that's that's kind of where I'm coming from and if I can get four votes if I can get three votes to go with me on that I might save you a whole lot of time tonight okay does anybody else feel that way oh yeah well I'd like to see some data as to what our averages have been in collections and what an eighth of a scent would accumulate in one year two years before we made that decision well of course we would have to it would have to be brought back and we have I thought you were talking about tonight no goodness no I said in no on the November ballot I was ready to vote tonight you were yeah what do you think about it Marty I guess before

[1:53:28] I before I would commit to it I I would I would rather I guess I'd want to see what what happens if we put it on the ballot and it and it fails what what happens to the way it is right you know does the current way kick in or stay the way it is or does it go away or uh I really don't know what happens if it if it's voted down so right now I'd say no I wouldn't support it not not that I w't I just uh I don't want to lose what we've got very well said Johnny I I'm kind of like uh Charlotte I would support it but i' like to get a little yeah get dwell a little bit more into it how you feel about it Don well you know I that that's the whole purpose of this meeting to me is to see what we can do to to help our streets because it's just like Harry said in five more years you know we won't be able to to fix half of them I mean you're going to have to have four-wheel drive to get across town um I didn't I didn't get a consensus Roland so you're own well mayor but before you uh uh give up uh I I hear though that you got questions and uh some of those questions I I think we're not prepared to answer tonight some of them we can't answer talk about the timing of an election and I think Roland can talk to us I think Roland's going to talk to us about the structure of the existing ballot is that right that's correct and and I or I can go just directly into the um the sales tax for Street Maintenance if you if you prefer to save time and um I would just like to find some type of a dedicated fund that would be every year would be going into a fund for Street repair and Street Maintenance instead of just this 1.6 to 1.9 that City is putting into Capital Improvements I'd like to see a dedicated fund that goes in so that we know what we're so we know what we're building and if we could put another and

[1:55:30] I'm just I'm shooting off the top here if we could take if 8 cent would equal to 1.5 and we could add that to this 1.6 that's 3 million a year that we could put into the to a street fund which means in two and a half years we could build Bell Street yeah so I'm just looking for funds that we can put because really right now I think that water is our number one priority but streets are next and a lot of these parks and things that we're doing may not be as important as what our streets and water are so that's kind of my thinking on it but well one one other thing that you know of course I I know that with a half cent sales tax we probably can't do all this but what I would like to look at is the structure of that thing to where we have Perpetual things that we need to maintain keep up our buildings our Fort our Cemetery our streets um um and you know I guess I want to look at it overall as a big picture to see if we can do some half cent sales money for for things that we're funding fund them a little bit differently so that we have more money to to dedicate or at least have something that we can dedicate to uh our Cemetery that's going to be there perpetually and and be uh be used and needing maintenance and upkeep that makes sense you have a puzzled look row I'm puzzled because of the the the cemetery uh question and we'd have to do some research on that I I think we're going to need to do some research on and we we might need to write down the that question completely and it's it's just throwing it out there kind of like Dwayne did off the top of his house my my point is we we have things that that need attention that are always put on the back burner that I would like to see you know they're basically utiliz by everyone I would like to see those things addressed if we could possibly um you know like I said think out of the box a little bit if we can use some half

[1:57:32] cent sales tax in order to get some more dedicated Revenue to some of these other things I'd like to see that where like for instance the fort instead of going to to our community uh who are already paying taxes to do some of the things that they need at the Fort have a have a vehicle that we can can use to to have money far can I I understand yes sir John before you get started and I'm anxious to hear what you've got to say but even the idea did we not do away with the sunset on that half cent sales tax yeah we did away with it so you know when the other day after Council I asked somebody here about the you know the River Project we had we just about complete you know we're going to throw in maybe the tell end of it A state-of-the-art Min golf course you know that Charlotte and I were a committee part of and all that but when they say well we're out of funds you know the half and sales tax monies are gone so are they gone or are they still coming in or how can they be gone is what I didn't understand you know the I think they were referring to the monies dedicated to their project what was appropriated okay okay good good question uh would have to be an in-depth study done and to compare what our commitments are in half cent sales tax money and what is been historically Revenue coming in and the offset and the ups and downs of that but I certainly would want an in-depth study of the language uh that um is already there and what happens like I believe as Mr self said what if it fails I mean we need to be very careful but look at it yes you're okay thank you um so um thank you for the opportunity mayor and council members uh I'll proceed with this presentation I'll try to make it very very brief because I know it's late I've provided you background information on the sales tax election history and uh the information on the ballot approval some of those projects is in your meeting packet but I'm going to make it very brief I'm going to try to touch just on the highlights I thought that um

[1:59:35] for the benefit of the public uh tonight that I would mention um that the city of St Angelo had two failed attempts before the voters approved uh the hon sales tax for economic development back in 1999 and at that point point they limited they provided a sunset provision to 6 years uh in 2004 they reauthorized the sales tax for another 20 years until June 30 2025 and so they've extended the sunset uh limitation and then in 2010 uh the voters approved um the removal of the sunset uh provision alog together they placed stricter limits on which projects can receive sales tax funding uh they provided percentage caps on how much the funds can be used for economic development and for water projects and they included the provision that funding for any additional projects would have to be approved by the voters so you're talking about additional projects we'd have to go back to the voters um one important point to make is that in 2004 when they um Extended the sunset provision that was my understanding from some of the veterans here some of the folks that were here back then was that that was a narrowly approved election so two failed attempts and then you have a narrowly approved so there could be some you know something that some thoughts to think about it could be a risk um the uh in terms of the use of the tax uh as reflected on the code of ordinances for each election ballot uh I'm not going to uh read all this information but I will touch on the highlights the lake nasworthy dredging project I think I think it's in it's good information at least for the public and for the viewing audience to to see some of these projects Andor related improvements the Coliseum and Fairgrounds projects uh and then obviously the promotion and development for new and expanding business enterprises and that's the having to do with economic development and the creation of jobs September 11th 2004 that's the second election uh they added the

[2:01:38] infrastructure relating to the development of water supply facilities uh they also authorized the Contra River improvements Park improvements Sports and athletic facilities including the maintenance and operation expenses for those facilities and improvements obviously fort kcho museum the Coliseum Fairground improvements uh and the development and expansion of affordable housing and the continuation of uh Economic Development projects November 2nd um that at that point they repealed uh as I said the sunset provision um and approved tax proceeds for in infrastructure relating to the development of water supply water purchase water rights purchase Andor Capital Improvements for um several water related items including water conservation at that point I mentioned the the Caps um uh in terms of the the water related um uh proceeds they create they they start out at a minimum of 21% and it's capped at 72% of the gross sales tax uh proceeds they also increased uh the continued development and expansion affordable housing up to 30 years so they gave that a sunset provision up to 30 years um infrastructure relating to the Contra River improvements and they um put a put a um an amount of $4 million and so this is very specific in the last election there's a specific amount per project the auditorium Downtown Plaza for example was an anticipated sum of 3.75 the Youth Sports facility consolidation anticipated to be 1.75 Fort Concho Museum District uh the fairgrounds third phase uh construction airport mod modification leverage of funds anticipated to be 500,000 these are some of the projects and I listed them by name because because I thought it would be um U familiar for you and for for the benefit

[2:03:41] of the audience so they could see some of the projects that have been funded including Economic Development projects so lastly and probably the most important part that you've already alluded to is the um um Municipal sales and use tax for Street Maintenance so you you are aware that it uh the tax code authorizes cities to raise the local sales tax uh at a rate by of one8 of 1% or 1/4 of 1% and it is my understanding and uh Finance can um can help me with that but I believe that um we can only pursue 1/8 of a percent because of the current uh debt debt that that we have uh today um cities can impose the tax obviously with voter approval um so an election is required provided that and and provided that it's held on a uniform election date it is already too late for the May election so we'd have to be looking at the November election uh the city does not have to form a special Development Corporation or create a special district to administer the Street Maintenance sales tax they can administer administer it the funds tax directly but it needs to um uh adhere to keeping the funds separately uh since the use of the tax is restricted it's important to note though that the sales tax may only be used to maintain and repair Municipal streets that existed on the date of the election uh and and at the time it's adopted uh so any new streets built after the election cannot be maintained and uh Andor funded uh the other the other uh important item is that the the municipal Street does does not include a designated state or federal highway or road or a designated County Road the street and maintenance sales tax has to be uh reauthorized in other words you have to go to the voters every

[2:05:44] four years um to have it reauthorized um so that is something that you have to think about uh should the tax expire and you haven't held an election or if you hold the election and it fails and you have to wait a year um anniversary from the time you held the election with that um I will be glad to answer any questions I think I made that pretty brief I do have some subject matter experts um in the audience um some of the department heads who uh have been involved with some of these projects uh like uh parks and Recreation uh obviously uh legal who helped U craft uh some of the um the ballot language uh our city clerk who can talk about the election dates and uh and then you have some other department heads that have been involved with um some of the other projects so um I'll be glad to entertain your questions thank you rden I would really like for you to to investigate this to see how many dollars we have available to see if we have enough dollars available to to enact an 8 cent sales tax to roads and still maintain what we already have obligated that should be something you could figure out isn't it yes we can if you could and what are we looking at as a schedule on this Miss bowling to get it on a November ballot I'd have to read the statute let's see I do have it it's um August 18th we would have to have everything in place and adopted by August 18th okay that gives us five months yeah well mayor uh this would clearly would be a priority for Council and would should be a topic at uh Daniel's priority setting meeting uh it sounds to me like as staff we need to take this as a a charge to uh go back and uh examine what this would look like if we passed it what would be necessary and and uh bring that back for that for that meeting if that's all right that's fine well if we've got

[2:07:45] until August we're not we're not in a Time press Jim I get you just a minute sir we're not in the time press so we can I believe we've got time if Roland could put some figures together and we can put it on the agenda Don um one of the questions that I have were there specific amounts listed in here is that Ironclad and what is our status of those have all those monies been spent are they in process did we borrow money to to complete those and that's the debt that you're discussing that that is correct I believe there's three three issues at least two Bond issues and some C certificate certificates of obligation but uh I I believe Morgan or Tina can help me with that Don I'm not sure we've got the details on exactly what it has and has not been started or completed okay but as far as the you said something about Ironclad are those numbers Ironclad there was a difference uh in the Viewpoint in this ballot in that in past ballots estim ated amounts were circulated we think that the Coliseum will be this or the convention center will be this amount then the scope of the project changed and and the amount of the project went up with this ballot uh I was told that it was written this way so that the amounts were capped at the amount in the ballot and that that uh half cent sales tax could be used up to that amount but not beyond that amount well then then on ite um know River improvements $4 million have we have we capped that is is it maxed out and and I guess what what I'm asking for is if we can have a status of each one of these if they're already completed and they're already maxed out then I'd like to know that I I can provide that information well actually that is you're on you're actually doing our work for us which we appreciate that is absolutely necessary

[2:09:47] for us to determine what kind of capacity exists um at some future date for example a November election would have uh some effective date associated with it and we would need to be sure that we could uh perform financially uh uh as of that date and so we'll need to review existing projects uh projects we've made commitments on and and be sure that we can satisfy the commitments we've already made uh in order to move ahead with this so and I I didn't mean to Blindside you roll it but um I just I would just like some I would like some figures is there enough money in our half cent sales tax that we can devote one that we could dedicate one8 to Street Maintenance I mean figure it out give us some figures and I believe we I believe Morgan has already done some some preliminary work and I believe we can we can handle 1/8 but we cannot handle a fourth and and with regard to some of the projects for example you mentioned red Ayo and I'm looking only at the financials for the January um information the January financials um there was 325,000 uh allocated to that and and budgeted to that uh and I believe I don't believe all of that has been used I think there's only been 10,000 used to date you mentioned whether we were using sales tax funds for that project um Morgan would you like to add any additional information well and along with that just you know the status is is it 50% complete or we have the dedicated funds for it you know just like I said mainly the status of each one I don't have the status of each project right now we do do a monthly update on the capital Improvement projects that we have up to date as of end of January that we could have that information rather quickly um but as far as the funding for each item we have funded all of the capital projects that were promised to the ballot uh on the ballot to the voters except for four items that there were some items that we could not fit in our debt capacity at the time and so there are four projects that still need to debt issued for them or some

[2:11:50] funds allocated to those projects In fairness let me say staff couldn't move the projects along in that time because they were working on other projects their debt capacity was there okay so there those projects include um an improvement at Fort Concho um 29th Street sports complex and um another Athletics facilities uh project which I don't know the details on but there were some projects that are on the ballot that we have not yet issued debt forth that are not yet budgeted well and see one of the things that brings the question up is we have a million dollars here and yet on our Capital Improvement plan we showed that we needed heating and cooling units for the Fort so that's what I was trying to get a grasp at and I I believe the million dollars that was specific to the Fort Concho Visitor Center yes um not to to to a very specific facility at the Fort that that's a good question why don't we we do need to do a complete rehash not just for Council but for the the public to see uh uh and so we we do need to bring that back so that we're so that we're accountable on the on the ballot to-do list okay would it be reasonable to to ask within 60 days that you can have have some figures put together that you could bring back we could put it on an agenda item we could discuss it and then when we have concrete figures we could we could make a decision if we want to put it on the on the ballot in November and that would still give us plenty of time wouldn't it yeah would that be all does that does that that sounds reasonable councel short I just have a question before we move go ahead uh Roland could you move back your presentation I I appreciate it and I realize you've not been here very long but uh you had in there I believe you had the airport improvements down at a million do on this last ballot and I clearly remember that being $500,000 not a million I and I may have misread or misheard uh yeah uh let's see 500 ,000 you are correct it's 500,000 not a

[2:13:53] million oh there it is at the bottom I'm sorry didn't see it thank you third phase of the is a million just didn't see that bottom line any other Council discussion on this Jim I know you want to make a statement come forward please sir yes my name is Jim Turner still and I'm one of the people that initially brought this project to council previous councils even as far as using Street Maintenance sales tax the 4B sales tax that we're under right now is actually very limited on the projects it can do it can't be used for uh a lot of General day-to-day operations you already have a 1-cent regular sales tax at every City can do just because they decide to do it that we're using for that it's roughly the size of the Property Tax and Revenue it brings in what $12 million a year something like that uh basically double what the half cent is which is around 6 million so between all the s uh sales tax we're pulling in $18 million a year roughly some of that goes to the general fund that 1 cent portion is general fund money but they half cent is limited both by the ballot language we have here and it's also significantly limited by the state law which says it it originally started out as just Economic Development projects and then they added in parks recreation and sports facilities projects and I think the last addition the one that we're using the most heavily right now was for water projects and development and it has to be development projects not day to operations you can do a little bit of Maintenance with it on

[2:15:54] things like parks and so on but most of it is supposed to be the stimulate the economy and stimulate the growth of of the city Street Maintenance can't be done with a 4B sales tax unless it's tied into an economic development project and there aren't very many of those that come along half cent I mean you can and all the these optional sales taxes have to go in 8 cent increments 8 cent4 cent we could have a 3/4 Cent for B sales tax for example we didn't we went with the full half we've talked to the Secretary of State on this and if the ballot is written the way it's supposed to be by state law if the voters don't approve it we just keep doing business as usual it will not change what the half cent sales taxes as a today but you do have to take them write it as one item that goes before for the voters that changes the entire package can be done that's the way the Secretary of State once it done that's what's implied but not I don't think it's specifically stated but that's what they want if you're going to change this section of your sales tax you do the whole thing is one ballot issue all the changes in it put it before the voters up or down you can't do it peac meal you can't have this one that could we couldn't be getting rid of the 4B at the same time we also would approve a quarter uh uh a Street Maintenance sales tax unless it was all one item it couldn't be two separate items if the Street Maintenance sales tax didn't pass say four years down the road we tried it didn't like it then would be we would revert to the half cent sales tax like we have right now that 8 cent would go back into the 4B tax

[2:17:55] automatically again this would be part of what was in the balot language but that was also how it would work and one of the things that limits is we can't take and kill anything that has already been approved and part of this sales tax funding that's why we're limited to an E Cent for Street Maintenance tax at some further date as projects mature things change we may decide we want to go to a full quarter Cent for Street Maintenance tax but we can't at this time because we do have that money committed and they won't let us change that until it's all paid off thank you thank you turnor Chris I guess I know where to where to point my blame at Mr Turner here for muddy in the water but I want uh to say that I think we should proceed with Extreme Caution at the this point in 2010 the voters lifted the sunset and put 72% of these funds toward long-term water supply I don't think that uh we've cracked that nut yet we've uh made some Headway with the Hickory uh if it comes online on time as promised we got opportunities at the red aoya we got opportunities with reuse and Reclamation um and I want to touch on something Mr uh Mr Fleming said and he said nobody's going to care what the streets are like when no water comes out of the tap you've got good capacity to fund streets with issuance of debt uh you can take out big chunks of the problem at a time uh but really meddling with your means of funding long-term water supply at this juncture I think is premature it's a great program other cities have used the E Cent to help their streets along but I don't think St Angelo is in a position to take what we have that has no Sunset which is a good thing given to history of the half cent

[2:20:00] sales tax in this town and narrow passage two failed elections we're 20 years behind the rest of the state in passing it you know they put this into effect in 1979 99 comes around we get on ball we're on board we're going ahead so I think you should focus on water and tell your constitu on that streets are important to us and we recognize your concern uh but we need to be looking over the hill 15 16 18 24 months 36 months and ensuring that this town has adequate water for the growth that is anticipated and for the residents that live here today I don't think that anybody wants to unleash uh the negative Economic Consequences of not having any water so well said we'll uh and you're easy to turn around D you say yeah we thought about it Cornell was right I'm GNA have to go with him this time so I still I I still want Roland to bring back some figures so that we know exactly what we're dealing with but you do have a point there sir well I mean the voters in in 2010 realized where we were uh water-wise and it was important to them so thank you Chris you bet we're through Turner anybody else want to speak to this good evening uh my name is Pat Malloy I was with the Chamber of Commerce for 16 years a director of Economic Development and uh here recently I learned that one of the projects I worked on well actually two of them here more recently have uh have gone out of business the uh the people out at the uh airport amcom dcor Aerospace have have left they're moving on to other army bases in the United States uh the Verizon live Source Center at one time had a couple hundred people uh they've left I guess I'm here tonight to refocus attention on the true purpose of the half-cent sales tax and that is to bring jobs into the community and help our existing companies

[2:22:03] grow uh economic development is not static it's just changing all the time as you know we add a few companies the oil field is is booming companies go out of business or do other do other things but we need to have those funds available uh uh as M as much as possible to alleviate some of these swings in the economy a lot of politicians right now including appell at court judges are saying you know I have helped Economic Development I think uh if the truth be known I think uh the state of our economy in Texas is largely the the response of the half cent sales tax communities across the state abene Amarillo San Angelo creating thousands and thousands of jobs uh so uh you know I view this view this uh situation here in U in St Angelo as uh as as a danger to that continued effort on on our part uh in those 16 years I was with the chamber I worked on about 45 projects that were either new companies or expansions and coad DC stepped in in later years uh I retired in 2009 and helped with about 26 or 27 of those and those were all uh important inputs at the time to create those uh create those new jobs these were either new companies or local expansions the major projects were all preceded by an economic imp impact analysis uh you know we've talked about streets we've talked about uh pads hiking pads those do not create jobs only jobs create jobs and and add indust additional inducements for other jobs created in the community the uh I really don't have a problem with you know the eighth to a to a fourth of a scent for streets uh I know this is a tsunami coming at me from the side over here but uh I I would hope you would at least try to hold that 28%

[2:24:05] that's dedicated to Economic Development and and continue to look at that as a way to grow our economy uh those funds are used to manage projects they're used to advertise the community and in some cases they're used for incentives and and you've got to have that continuous stream and uh uh coming into the the chamber and the Costa DC so that we can continue this uh this effort um I guess that's about all I have to say I just I'm kind of the skunk in the check-in house here I'm just I'm just trying to say please uh continue to give consideration for those types of activities that create new wealth in the community thank you thank you Pat spoken like a true Economic Development and on the good side I found that penny that you were looking for for the for the streets thank you you know that's the wonderful thing about having public inputs you get all every direction so that's what we need we need everything to be brought forth and then we'll put the figures together and we can make a decision anyone else care to speak from the public then I'm moving to item four motion toj and I all in favor say I this meeting's over thank you

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=DjbJwzqRNOo