San Angelo City Council 5-20-14

[0:00:01] it is 9:03 can you watch sound and it's time to get this 9:00 meeting started Ed Lopez if you would please come forward say and say our invocation good morning s please join me in prayer Heavenly Father Lord we come before you on this beautiful and awesome day thank you for the privilege that we have to be alive Lord and to just live another day we we ask you dear father at this time that you just bless our land with some rain dear Lord as we need it for our drenched and just parched lands father God we ask you Lord that you send us rain dear Lord and at the same time father may you be with our city council father and our mayor and all the elected officials and those that will be sworn in today father that you will give each and everyone wisdom and guidance from above to do their very best father bless each one in attendance and may you bless our fine city of St Angelo for it's in Jesus name that we pray amen thank you think it's Kate Gran staff would you please come forward and help me with the pledge please ma'am of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation God indivisible withy and justice for all honor the Texas flag I PL alance to the Texas one State under God one and indivisual thank you I appreciate you if Council will allow this I would like

[0:02:11] to go ahead and pull p uh see public comment and let's go ahead and put that on the regular agenda when we've got our Council me new council member seated is that all right if we put that off until we all right on the right wing okay then it's time for our special SE special agenda this is item number two it's consideration of adopting a res resolution canvasing returns of the general election hailton said City on the 10th day of May 214 for the purpose of electing Municipal officers declaring results of the general election providing a severability clause and providing for an effective date and I've got about three pages here that I need to read to make this all legal so please bear with me now therefore be it ordained by the city council of the city of s Angelo Texas the findings set forth above are incorporated into the body of this ordinance for all purposes as is fully set forth therein that the city council officially finds and determines an election was duly ordered to be held in the city of St Angelo Texas on the 10th day of May 214 for the purpose of electing a city council member from single member district one a city council member district from single member district three and a city council member from single member district 5 to two year terms of office and that proper notice of set election was duly given that the proper election officers were duly appointed prior to set election that said election has been duly made and election returns delivered and the city council has duly canvased and returned all in accordance with the law section three that the city council officially finds and determines that only qualified resident voters of the city were allowed to vote at set election and following votes were cast in set election and that the canvas of the votes cast in set election and returns thereof which is attached here to as exhibit a were made in accordance with the law single member district one Rodney Fleming five 146 votes 50.7% of the total bill Richardson 29 votes 2.70% trenidad Gary Jr 500 votes 4651 per 1,75 votes cast in single

[0:04:16] member district one single member district three Eugenio ismel Garcia 38 votes 12.6% Johnny silvus 208 votes 66.3% Richard C senior 69 votes 21.9% for a total of 315 votes single member district five Philip Skinner 97 votes 15.45% Elizabeth grinstaff 531 votes 84.5% for a total of 628 votes cast in single M District 5 pursuant to the applicant provision of the Texas local government code Texas election code in the city of s Angelo Texas Home Rule Charter the city council officially finds determines and declares the results of set election to be that single member district number one Rodney Fleming is elected for council member for district one to a two year term of office by majority vote of by majority vote of the voters and Johnny silvas is elected to council member for district three to a two-year term of office by majority vote of the voters number three Elizabeth grindstaff is elected council member for district number five to two-year term of office by the majority vote of the voters and it is thereby declared to be the intention of the city council that the phrases Clauses sentences paragraphs and section of disorder are severable and if any phrase clause sentence paragraph or sexual disorder shall be declared un unconstitutional by the valid judgment or decree of any Court of competent jurisdiction such unconstitutionality shall not refect affect any of the remaining phrases Clauses sentences paragraphs and sections of this ordinance since the same would have been enacted by the city council without the incorporation of this order of any such unconstitutional phrase clause sentence paragraph or section this office shall this order shall be effective immediately upon its adoption Council you have been given copies of the vote have you had a chance to read them yet are you satisfied with the

[0:06:18] results okay here's what I need I need someone to make a motion and someone to second the motion and I will read the motion it is determined that the following candidates received the majority the votes for the office of which they were candidates Rodney Fleming council member single member district number one Johnny silvus council member single member district three Elizabeth grinstaff council member single member district 5 therefore have been elected I need somebody to make a motion I need a second so move so move second second I've got Charlotte farmer to make the motion I have Marty self on the second I don't guess there's any more comment from the council if yall happy with the canvas is there any comment from the public on this if not I'm going to call for the vote all in favor of of adopting the the candidates as has been read please say I I and he opposed put a 70 on that one 6 six put a 60 on that one I bet we could have got a 70 on it though all right and I guess now it's time to administer those that's correct you're you're own your own girl okay IOD I Rodney Fleming do swear do solemnly swear I will Faithfully execute the duties that I will Faithfully execute the duties of the office of s Angeles City district one of the office of the St Angelo city council single member district one of the State of Texas of the State of Texas and will to the best of my ability and will to the best of my ability preserve protect and defend the constitutional laws preserve protect and defend the constitutional laws of the United States and this state of the United States and this state so help me God so help me God congratulations thank

[0:08:24] you and here for your w than I want to say a couple words one thing I want to the most important person I want to think or one of the most important persons I want to thank is my wife Lesley for backing me and helping me get through all of this it it was very difficult this last time I I I really don't know how politicians and I don't like that word I don't know how they go through what they go through uh the other person I want to thank is God I want to I I really believe that God has led me to this journey and I I think that uh I'm going to be one of seven people that are going to help get St Angelo going on the right track thank you everyone raise your right hand pleas Johnny I Johnny silus do swear do somly swear that I will Faithfully execute the duties that that I will Faithfully execute the duties of the office of the St Angelo city council single member district Bri of the office of St Angelo City Council smd3 of the State of Texas of the State of Texas and will to the best of my ability and will to the best of my ability preserve protect protect and defend the Constitution and laws preserve protect and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States and of this states of the United States and of this state so help me gu congratulations thank you Johnny we've got a copy here of the oath of office and also this is your certified that the election was held and that you want it congratulations my friend thank you I was glad to get this over with but I I first of all I wanted to thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ secondly my wife Yolanda couldn't be here today she's at work my son Gabriel and my daughter-in-law Lynn my mom I love you

[0:10:28] to death who's in the audience my sister Carolyn and the rest of my brothers and sisters but really all the voters out there that have the faith to put me through for another two years and I promise to do the best of my ability and again thank you so much God bless I Elizabeth grinstaff I Elizabeth grinstaff solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will Faithfully execute the duties that I will Faithfully execute the duties of the office of the St Angelo city council single member district 5 of The Office of the St Angelo city council single member district 5 of the State of Texas of the State of Texas and will to the best of my ability and will to the best of my ability preserve protect and defend the constitution of laws will preserve protect and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States and of this states of the United States and of this States so so help me God congratulations thank you very much thank you you're old the and your certificate thank you very much thank you Ma I feel like I have been talking for two solid months so I I don't want to stay up here too long but I also want to be careful because I remember when my friend Charlotte farmer was sworn in she forgot to thank her family which was standing all in the back of the room you know kind of bigger than Dallas I have a lot of friends friends here and that's what it took to get me here and I uh really appreciate each and every one of you as well as the voters and single member district 5 and a lot of support throughout the city um I'm joined this morning with my daughter Kate she's 14 she's getting to miss school uh my son did not want to miss school to come to this so um I apologize for not getting to introduce you to him um I worked with a virtual committee I say that way I never had to put everybody in the same place at the same time but a couple of key people that I

[0:12:31] would like to mention my friends James and Janie Thomas Sandy Fields Craig Meyers Charlotte farmer behind me Chris and Jean Cornell um also Christy uker Tommy Darwin and just another whole bunch of cast of characters my treasur Brad fly and most importantly uh Steven mlin who made me look really really smart in a lot of commercials and print ads I think it was one of the most interesting political campaigns that we've seen in a long time and Stephen I thank you for that so with that I look forward to getting to work and doing uh the work of the city and the best I can for the citizens of St Angelo thank you very much can I take my purse with me okay I guess we'll just have to get to we do have a very nice plaque here this is an appreciation for HR winky w law who has been our council member for the last year winky brought a lot of perspective to our Council he was a very good council member he was very good for his constituents winky is not here today we do have his plaque we will get it to him but we do appreciate winky we appreciate what he has done and we appreciate his work for the city of St Angelo so we do want to recognize Mr ww you know I would just like to say to Rodney and Johnny I'm glad to see you back you had a good campaign I think it's uh I think it's you you've worked hard for your constituents and for your city and I think that's the reason they brought you back and I'm glad to see both of you miss grindstaff I watched your campaign it was very positive it was upbeat it was very professionally done you bring a very unique position to

[0:14:35] this Council and I look forward to working with you in the future I'm I'm glad you're here congratulations thank you mayor uh we do I guess do we still have further need for the introduction to special guest or have we do y'all have anyone You' want to introduce now that we're this point anything else you want to say Rodney good Johnny there is one person in the audience that uh helped me greatly and I totally forgot the Dominic Santos my campaign Treasurer is back there and I really appreciate his his support of me during my campaign I couldn't have done it without him thank you Dominic anyone else John Miss gr I guess I have a few others that came that may not usually be at Council meetings my friend Tracy Ferguson I see uh old friends emelo Bettis from prior Council so uh if anyone else I've missed I apologize um but glad everyone's here look forward to having cake with them I'm ready for the cake yes sir we do have one more item to deal with though before we have our cake and that is item number four which is consideration of appointment of mayor protim for the 2014 city council do I have any recommendations from Council like to make a motion I would also who we going to take first I heard you first L ladies first I'd like to uh recommend Charlotte Farmer for the mayor Pro him and I'd like to nominate uh Marty s let's see if we have a second on the first one for Charlotte Parmer do I have a second for Marty s I'll second that we do have a motion we do have a second that Marty self be elected the protim any further comment from Council do I have comment from the audience all in favor of Marty self approach 10 please say I I any imp posos Nay put a 70 on it please ma'am and I guess it's time to get the cake isn't it so I'm calling a break at

[0:16:39] this time it is 9:20 uh we're going to take about 30 minutes and and then we'll get back to to our agenda uh it is 9:50 and I'm calling the meeting back to order and we will go back to item C which is public comment the council takes public comment on all items in the regular agenda public input on the regular agenda item will be taken at its appropriate discussion public input on an item not on the agenda or consent agenda will be identified and requested for consideration by the council at this time the council May request an item to be placed on the future agenda or for a consent agenda item to be moved to the regular agenda for public comment on public hearing items public input will be received on each item immediately following the council discussion in prior to any action on the item each member of the public shall make the remarks from the podium Begin by stating their name remarks by each citizen will be limited to 3 to 5 minutes unless Wave by council member for all speaking on that matter no individual will be allowed to speak more than once on anyone subject until all citizens wishing to comment has done so and I'll open it up to the public first is there anyone in the public that has any comment uh that they need to make Pro or con if you do this is your time if there is anything on the consent agenda that you would like to have pulled to the regular agenda you can come forward at this time and ask that it be pulled and we'll see if we can get a member to pull it so it's now the Public's time come forward formal line you're first state your name Darren and you got five morning my name is Darren Fentress uh thank you mayor councel uh I'd like to address uh the the addendum item on the consented agenda I request that you consider moving that to the regular agenda so we I I would like to speak with you all about that okay is there any anyone of the members will pull that

[0:18:43] I okay I'll pull it thank you done Darren we'll take care of it on the on the regular agenda anyone else from the public come forward please sir Mike is yours uh Bob Solace director of neighborhood and Family Services I want to thank Council for allowing to host the annual neighborhood Blitz uh once again it was a great success we painted 26 houses uh we uh worked on the for Concho real the poo and some other projects um I want to thank WT for organizing the uh the volunteers uh I want to thank habitat for providing the paint that we used and I want to thank my fellow uh city employees who uh worked hard and weathered the hot uh hot sun to make S Angel a better place to live and we look forward to doing again next next year thank you thank you Bob and it was a it was a roaring success so I'm very proud of our city and proud of all the volunteers anyone else from the public here to approach the council at this time this is your chance to take a free shot at us if you if you so choose to do so so form a line if not we'll take it to the council do I have anything any comments from the council need to be made at this time is there anything on the consent agenda that needs to be pulled start with you Rodney I'd like to pull the agenda I like P the addendum okay to regular Marty do you have anything no Johnny mayor I do have a quick comment that and I know I'm going going to ask for it to be on maybe a future agenda item but just so I don't forget there's a lady that uh called me a couple of days ago who was very concerned about some of these people driving around on the flatbed trucks with animals on the back of the truck with uh the animals aren't tied up they're standing on the back of the truck and wondered if maybe we can work on some type of ordinance to uh you know get people from doing doing away with that and uh she was tempted to want uh following the truck and uh wanted to see how hot that toolbox was that that

[0:20:46] dog was standing on so of course she was an animal lover so I don't know if there's anything we can do or we can but anyway that I just so I don't forget for a future agend item that's I'd be interested in looking in into something like that Daniel mayor I just wanted to recognize we have a new city manager intern Ryan Ed nandz have you stand up Ryan Ryan attends Trinity University and he is here the summer so he'll be working in our office assisting with a couple of projects so welcome around congratulations Charlotte do you have anything ma'am Don no Miss gr all right then I guess we can move on Dwayne can we get an update on the curb cut that we had about two months ago and where we stand on that I had the person that my neighbor that was asking about that if we can find out where we're at on that all right uh we we now have the consent agenda which is item number five item number six item number seven uh would anyone like to make a motion to accept these as presented so moved I'll second that do have a motion I do the second forther Council discussion on this do I have discussion on the consent agenda from the public if not all in favor say I I any oppose nay let's put a 70 on that one let's move on now to the addendum this has been brought to the regular agenda consideration of authorizing staff to negotiate an agreement is substantially the attached form for Professional Services per request for qualifications RFQ s214 Professional Services storm water Engineering Services in an amount not to exceed 100 ,000 per year between the city of s Angelo and freeze and Nichols Incorporated authorizing the city manager to ex execute that agreement Mr Bart you our own sir thank you Council and mayor and staff U I submitted this item we uh kind of in we don't have a storm water engineer in place right now and I'm I'm functioning as stormw water

[0:22:49] engineer and city engineer we've tried to uh we have advertised for that position and have had some difficulty filling that and there's some deadlines coming up and some projects that we have that are storm water related that we really need some expertise in this area to to get this done and U we went out for a an RFQ on this we sent it to 10 different firms we had two reply uh Freez and Nichols was one and the other one was P Associates Darren Darren is a local rip for that um we um considered many many uh many things I might tell you U app Co experience uh local and area expertise technical expertise adequate resources performance on past projects and comparing those two firms and U friez and Nichols came out ahead in in in our uh review so um if there's any questions I can ask answer for you on this that's the reason that we're needing to go forward with this selection how about financial what was the what was the difference in cost uh at this point we're not consider you just gone out for a proposal okay so dollars have not been brought into the equation yet no sir mayor I have a question yes ma'am uh we use ucra for a number of different Services can you speak to their expertise in this area or their ability to respond were they able to yeah late Friday it was after I submitted the stuff to you to the council um understand uh UC and the city have come to some agreement for for part of the work that's that was requested in this service um I I don't think they have any engineering available to help with that part of it as far as the permitting and that type of thing there may there may be some possibility that we may be able to get them to help with portion of that so what is your immediate need right now what what task do you have at hand that you need to to go forward with this the immediate need I need is an M ms4 permit uh to get submitted to tcq it's a has a

[0:24:54] deadline of jun June 11th uh it's next month month and um that that's the immediate need and does that require an engineer stamp no no no it doesn't not okay and understand that there's been some discussion with with UCA on that that is the area where we're requesting assistance actually from UC there was some misunderstanding as far as the mou that we had uh that would allow UCC to do some of that work we got that cleared up actually on Friday so that initial work actually can be done by ecra and I believe Shane uh was uh in discussions also with EC to make sure that we got those details AR out Shan if you'll come up here and kind of address that part of it as well would appreciate that but uh that part of it can be done by UCR okay does that in any way impact the action that we're asked to take today yeah only for the uh as far as future next year as far as what needs to be submitted by an engineer which is what U I'll have Shane address at this point how many Engineers do we have on staff right now just curious well engineering side just him so uh he's our only one that we yes we fall back on for all this uh no we did uh we do have anou interlocal agreement uh with the ucra for certain aspects of our storm water program uh there was uh it was cleared up last Friday when we met with uh Miss bowling with the city attorney's office and uh we are uh amending our agreement uh as we speak to uh allow the ucra to handle our ms4 update for for us and to handle the annual reporting for this year and next fiscal year uh and then at that point that's when our current mou runs out with the ucra and we will have to go back and uh renegotiate that near local agreement at that point uh this service and um Carl can explain it further but as we move forward on two or three of the projects that we actually have right now uh with Carl being the only engineer that we have uh we do need uh actual an engineering firm that that can stamp uh

[0:27:00] actual plans and designs and do some of that work for us right now since uh since we are underst staffed in the in the engineering department that's that's why we're requesting to go ahead and move forward with this item okay but the task we have can be done with UC right the one the one that's due next month yes okay thank you Charlotte where's the 100,000 coming from it's storm water funds it's budgeted understand now 100,000 was budgeted in existing fund not for this purpose exactly but we do have a that's roughly the same amount as the salary of our storm water engineer and so for this since we do not have a stormw water engineer we're going to move those funds over to cover this cost of the engineering service until we get a storm water engineering engineer on board working for the city and then at that point uh we will no longer need the the necessarily all the services that are provided under this that would be provided under this agreement with free and nickels uh so it basically we just um utilized salary money uh basically one for one is what we did uh on that so it's salary plus benefits is is what that comes out to Rodney you are you done go ahead sir okay well the biggest problem I have with this is the 100,000 and it's a multiple year deal um when we when we did an RFQ for qualifications we've talked about this I think as a council in the past where I weigh a person or a company that's here in St Angelo I give them a lot more weight because when I see every time I go to an executive meeting up there and I have attorneys or Engineers come in there from out of town they charge us thousands of dollars just to make the trip from wherever they're coming from from Austin Dallas wherever and that makes me so mad when we've got a engineering company who is qualified to do this located five blocks away right over there that's not going to do

[0:29:04] $100,000 I I do want to look at the numbers um you said earlier that we weren't looking at the numbers I do want to look at the numbers if it's going to be less and especially if it's going to be a lot less I want to use the local guy that's my opinion but I think The Local Company should be the company that we use Dwayne yes sir you three Rod yes Don one of my questions or my main question is if we're using UC why are we still putting this out for 100,000 it's not for 100,000 it's not to exceed 100,000 we do not know exactly what cost will be Associated we're assuming that the contract will be negotiated for uh terms of an hourly basis and we only pay for what we use not to exceed 100,000 if we don't use them we pay nothing if we use them we only pay for what we use um so we're not planning on spending $100,000 we're just we're asking not to uh up to 100,000 not to exceed is what we're asking for at this point uh it's not that not that we're doing it uh and as as the qualifications go as we do the RFQ through the qualification process um you know we we did it is waited for local experience in in things like that uh there are other issues that go involved with the RFQ process uh as Carl mentioned earlier on some of those the you know size of Staff the uh experience relevant to to what we need um do we you know there's there's different different things that you look at when you're basing based on qualifications and based on qualifications we cannot take money into effect it has to be strictly based on the company's qualifications that that they present but on but on an RFQ we can accept either person it's a personal opinion so we can we can there those aren't exact Sciences on on when you do that RFQ you don't have you don't say one is totally better than the other I mean that's your opinion that that that that company it is subjective to to some very subjective to some degree I

[0:31:06] mean there are you know criteria they as they present what they've done in the past uh their relevant experience how much experience they've had in certain areas uh you take all that into account uh as you put as you as you score the evaluation of the of the criteria that you use to evaluate each each each one but my whole thing is I'm sitting here we're having a budget crisis right now and we're we're trying to figure out how to get money on all these other things let's save money is most the most amount of money that we can possibly save by having a company that's a engineering firm that's here in town right off the bat it's going to save us money because every time they have to come to Stan Angelo they charge us thousands of dollars just for travel not to talk to us but just to travel here and to me that thousands of dollars could be done on you know part of the work part of the job this is my personal opinion but that's the way I feel Johnny and Shane and Carl I'm going to piggy back on a lot of the what Rodney says is because you know I would hate and and I guess that's the difference between an RFP and an RFQ is you know the dollar amounts comes in on the proposal end of it but how are you going to eliminate you know you said you sent out 10 I would be interested in in even the top two you know not not eliminating even the guy that came in second when you know when you don't even know the dollar amount so I guess that's where I'm not an expert in your area but uh you know just common sense would tell me that why not look at the top two or three or whatever uh when the dollars come in and not eliminate you just because you're being very subjective on the qualifications am I making any sense I mean just trying to Professional Engineers you can't in the state of Texas the law does not allow you to bid Professional Services so that's why you use the RFQ process and in that you're looking for the most qualified firm or candidate but I think in this case I what I would support would be a motion that allows the the ucra under the

[0:33:09] existing contract to do as much work as we can put against that contract and only use the selected firm for things that we simply cannot do another way I don't believe in you know in paying for anything we don't need but I'm not sure that what their their pressing issues require the use of an engineering firm they may have they might have it until they hire the appropriate staff but I don't know that that's really the pressing issue it's kind of like borrowing money you can't borrow money unless you've got a credit record you can't get a credit record until you borrow money and that's that's more or less what I'm hearing here the other firm has got the top notch because they're experienced but yet we're not even allowing our local people to become experienced so how's he supposed to get into bidding I mean that I know he's experienc they are experienced I know he's experienced but lesser than the other group so it's weighted against him and I too would like to see our local people used if there is any way in the world I I agree with Liz on this we should have the UC should be but I think we should vote against this on UCR we're doing the we're changing that right now to to allow us to work with the ucra on this permit that's coming up next month corre so we're not under any Rush on this on that part of it put a motion rney I move that we we well I don't even have to move on that part of it because we're doing that we that's not even going to be come before the council I I I'm I move that we deny this second okay further councel consideration on this do I have any consideration any comments from the floor motion has been made that we deny the negotiated agreement for the RFQ all in favor say I I any oppose Nay put a 70 on it that's move on let's move on to the regular agenda this will be the presentation of the 214 first quarter report by the Chamber of Commerce Economic Development convention and visitors bureau Mr neighbors Pamela Miller are you going to start it Mr Phil

[0:35:12] yes sir you are on sir thank you very much do you all have copies of our first quarter report in your packets okay the first page is a synopsis of the first quarter activity and uh again I have just categorized it into three areas business retention and expansion and then U of existing employers and then also marketing and recruitment activities as well as uh support activities so you can see that uh the first quarter of uh 2014 John Dugan was here and he actually stayed through the end of the first quarter so you can see the numbers that we have there with the local companies that we worked with including looking for larger facilities looking for issues to be solved and then we also worked with three headquarter companies that um have headquarter that are headquartered somewhere else but have facilities here most of those have to remain confidential until uh until they make it public but uh that's the summary of that and we'll refer to some of those later in the report also regarding outside prospective employers uh the first category is those that we just sent information to we do follow up with phone calls and and a few of those make visits but that's the larger category of just sending information to and it included retail service and a couple of Manufacturers and then we did visit with four energy related companies during the first quarter and then also continued to have a lot of Hotel activity and so that's another category that we've been very busy in for over a year and then under support activities I just mentioned working with the Small Business Development Center and other allies in hosting how to do business in the oil field and then uh participation with

[0:37:15] kadc in the Strategic plan for economic development and then um of course activities in transitioning after John Dugan left so that's the overall summary and again I won't uh read all of the detail but I did want to reference the Costa DC strategic plan for economic development the Allies got together again uh and under kosad DC's uh leadership looked at the Strategic plan made some updates and added a goal but I've just listed here four of those that the chamber has primary responsibility for and uh on page two you see uh good fellow Air Force B base being the first one and I think a lot of you know that we've uh have consultant uh we are Consulting with Scott bethl retired General and he's helping us to put together uh new materials and helped us with a lot of our appointments on our Washington DC trip um we of course prepared for those visits during the first quarter although the visits took place in the second quarter and um and then of course the P4 partnership which is the Public Public public private partnership looking for win-win scenarios between the community and good fellow Air Force Base so that's an activity that will run through July of this year but started in the first quarter uh the next goal you see there is identifying employers by uh that we can assist in working with City County and state officials uh some of those you saw referred to in the quarterly summary but uh not a lot to to say there except um that I think we're still going to be working with kosad DC in dividing up the labor on our business retention expansion program and uh we'll know a lot more uh about that in the next few months and after our new vice president uh is

[0:39:16] hired on page three uh I've highlighted the goal to collaborate with Texas Pacifico to improve Freight rail infrastructure and also uh looking at the precidio International Bridge and we have been given the lead on that uh we continue to believe that that is that the International Bridge issue is moving forward and uh I was told by uh new council member grindstaff at the break that um that there is a deadline to start construction on that so let me let you give that detail uh currently the uh state of Texas through Tex do is designing a pre-cast concrete structure uh for those of you that don't know part of the bridge the US side was a Wood Construction historic bridge and it burned about five years ago so the the Mexican side literally half a bridge is standing so Tex dot is designing a new bridge and they will submit drawings for approval to the Army Corps of Engineers in the fall and then um uh Texas Pacifico it will be uh their responsibility to take the project out to bid and oversee its construction and they have a dead deadline uh imposed by the state of Texas to begin construction uh no later than second quarter 2015 it's anticipated to be a six-month construction process so we expect to have an international bridge restored and operational in 16 which is good because of the delays and then of course that opens up a trade corridor from the West Coast of Mexico all the way up through the ports to Plains Corridor and so that is indeed good news that that moving forward excuse me Elizabeth did you say 16 or 15 15 would be the construction time so by 16 by 16 it would be it could be operational all right and then on page five I've highlighted one more goal identify mutually beneficial industry supply chain opportunities to Market in

[0:41:18] partnership with cities in Mexico's madora region and uh prior to the southern work group meeting that we had here in s we were working with two groups by phone and by email to whom we sent information primarily the KRA the manufacturing chamber down there also folks from toron and and some others from some smaller cities in the state of quila and we were able to get uh one um I guess exchange during the the luncheon at which Drew Darby spoke following the lunch and we got one of those trade groups together with some of uh the local folks to talk about trade opportunities so uh that's the most information that I have on that particular goal uh on page six uh it does say that under that goal we also need to tap uh into resource bases with utsa's Center for economic development and with Dave Ericson's help at the spdc and uh others we have been working with UTSA Center for international trade on filling some of those inquiries so that's the Strategic plan and and our part in it then on page seven uh really 7 through 10 U is just a compilation of the weekly reports that we do uh and so most of those have already been reported on I'll just point out a couple of those of things on the bottom of page seven um the the Devon St safety standown I have a hard time saying that actually that took place on one of the council meeting dates some of you uh stuck your head in and saw that over a 3-day period they had over a hundred vendors and contractors and those were safety meetings and the city's Development Corporation and we were there in order to provide uh support and talk about services that we can provide

[0:43:21] to them and we did follow up with a couple of those and some of those continue to be some of the smaller offices that we see opening up here in town uh on page eight about the seventh bullet down uh it talks about John meeting with representatives of caseo solutions um on their facility and I can just say from I didn't have direct involvement in that but the city staff and John work very hard to make that a reality and we're excited to see that going up in the business park uh uh two of the last three bullets on that page eight down at the bottom uh we just by coincidence had two different renewable energy companies come in and approach us uh and talk to the city uh within a two-day period so that was kind of interesting uh followup continues with one of those and then on page 10 uh we have that John reconnected with two of the larger ongoing projects uh in order to uh kind of make the handoff because we contined to talk to them monthly or every other month and um I'm still checking with these uh if we don't hear from them on an ongoing project then quickly in the support materials on page 11 uh the The Economic Development Division did its annual Economic Development Awards you see the nomination form on page 11 and the awardees that actually happened in in the second quarter but those are listed on page 12 and then you see I I listed in here the program for the partnership effort on the doing business in the oil field on pages 13 and 14 uh we have uh I've also put in the news article on John Dugan's uh leaving and there is a selection Committee in

[0:45:24] place and uh I'm pleased to report that uh this Thursday there will be uh there were 23 applicants and this Thursday there will be telephone interviews with six of those applicants and then hopefully there will be two or three in-person interviews within a couple of weeks of that period we have uh two members from kosa DC and others assisting us on that committee and then finally I have just added the uh business barometers because that's an just a picture of our economy in uh in picture form you can see the building permits sales tax um and the workforce continues to increase and so you see those barometers from April and May and then uh our first quarter financials ending March 31st and I would be pleased to hear any comments or try to answer any questions Council mayor Phil I think I think the only one I have and I apologize that atast I lost my agenda and I can't find it but Phil on the the local companies that we're uh I saw something there where we're helping them expand at the very beginning uh was there any successes and and maybe name a few or well there were some successes uh or and we anticipate that there will be some s some successes but i' hesitate to use their names I'd be glad to give them to you um perhaps email this afternoon but generally a lot of them when they start working with us they they ask for confidentiality and so we try to abide by that um one that is public that we can mention though is uh Devon Energy's Regional headquarters because they located here a year and a half to two years ago they've continued to work with the city and with the community as a

[0:47:27] whole in order to achieve the expansion uh out there on Old Christoval Road and they do have their permit and are are about to move forward with that and I say that because I know we Council I can speak for the council as a whole anytime we see the local and expansion I mean that puts a smile on our faces absolutely so glad that's why we list it first it does for us too thank you thank you any other questions for Phil thank you sir thank you Pamela good morning I'd like to start off with the the handouts that uh you got this morning and uh the one that's headed Texas Hotel occupancy tax 2113 this it's being passed out to you uh currently you all know that um last year was a banner year for us historically it was our best occupancy rate that we've ever had and our highest average daily rate that we've ever had uh this article that I am referencing today talks about 11 metros that beat the state average for uh the state's occupancy average last year and of those 11 cities St Angelo was number one um we had just under 83% occupancy which is wonderful in the hotel world that's why you're seeing one big reason why you're seeing so much Hotel activity going on in San Angelo right now very interesting we were followed by Midland and Odessa so you know a lot of that is oil and gas driven the other sheet that I passed out I just got yesterday that is our most recent copy of the Smith travel report and my staff has been working on a lot of Hotel bids recently a lot of conference bids and the hotel bids that are coming in you can tell the rates are going down if you look at this you will see that our average daily rate in April was only up 16.4% we have consistently been up around 30% for the last year so if you look down at our occupancy year-to dat

[0:49:33] um and our average daily rate you'll see our occupancy is down just under 10% and our average daily rate is still up at 25% on the year-to date in your packet of information you have all of the backup on the economic impact in the detail report your synopsis is on page one we assisted the first quarter with 11 conventions meetings sporting events or Motor Co does attendance of 21515 people room nights of just under 1,400 average length of days spent was three economic impact of 4,443 120 I'd like to highlight the trade shows that we attended the first quarter of the both the Houston and Fort Worth travel and vacation shows emerge which is a religious conference management show The National Association of sports commissions the American bus Association that's motor coach tour planners the annual legislative meeting and dinner in Austin and the mayor was able to go with us this year we were pleased and also the southern dragboat association annual meeting in banquet Jenny represented us at that and we were thrilled to be awarded the event of the Year from Lucas Oil for our drag booat race media inquiries this quter included San Antonio Express News the Travel section they did do an article on the international Lily Garden the Dallas Morning News they have interest in an Art Exhibit that's coming birds and blooms they wanted an update on the Lily garden and triaa California and they have scheduled a visit to San Angelo for later in the year in October we had media visits by both Texas highways and travel host both of them have committed to do an article on plane Air the festival we have coming the end of October true West magazine was here they're doing a story that will uh be published in February on the Buffalo

[0:51:37] Soldiers and Fort kcho you have samples of some of our advertising in your packets um but I'd like to tell you where we advertise this quarter AAA Southern traveler Texas highways Texas monthly Midwest living Better Homes and Gardens Family Circle Texas town and City the 2014 tourism Edition the 2014 state travel guide which came out in January travel host Texas spts trail passport Facebook Google search tour Texas online Sports destination management and Texas Country Reporter Top Texas town our top visitation at the visitor center from the Welcome guest book where they sign in uh top city with San Antonio followed by Houston our top out ofate Market was California followed by Minnesota you can tell the snowbirds were here in the wintertime our top International was Canada followed by England our Visitor Center beam replacement uh is just finishing up you've probably seen the cranes and everything over there just a few little details that they're working on to get that complete uh new hotels that opened in February we opened the Baymont in and Suites we got an additional 78 rooms and the Hawthorne was scheduled to open yesterday I toured it last night and they're looking at opening now tomorrow so when that opens we will have another 62 rooms currently that are there are 12 new properties that we are in some kind of communication with that will be coming to San Angelo um we just completed a very successful Texas County judge and commissioner conference they said that the attendance at ours was better than most of their state conferences uh we had 350 people 830 room nights for that conference and they left very happy I'd also just like to point out that um

[0:53:40] there's been a lot of renewed interest in the wayfinding program as you all know we did a wayfinding study we had a consultant in Houston put together a plan for us a multi-year plan and uh that firm has expressed interest in uh getting before Council and showing you the program and finding out if we can move forward so I would just like you to consider um maybe doing that sometime in the near future are there any questions that I can answer councel any questions for Pamela thank you so much thank you ma'am all right let's go on to item number does council have any uh feeling maybe toward moving anything on the agenda according to the people that are here or do you just want to follow the agenda as it is just follow it let's just follow it then number nine first public hearing consideration introducing an ordinance amending the code of ordinances city of s Angelo to add a new article 8.12 entitled nuisance light on Residential Properties in order to regulate light intrusion onto Residential Properties providing definition I conditions Declaration of glare and spill light nuisance shielding total outdoor light output standards prohibiting the production of light nuisance establishing responsibility exemptions outlining complaint process establishing retroactive rules and penalties by Solace you are own sir uh good morning Council um we do have a u light nuisance ordinance for council's review and approval before we get there uh I want to introduce Mr William Ren he is a special assistant to the superintendent of McDonald Observatory and he's one of the state's leading experts on the Texas Dark Skies initiative and he's providing information across dozens of communities uh to help us with decision- making process and he has a short presentation and I like to introduce him Mr Mr W

[0:55:43] please thank you very much appreciate welcome sir thank you very much Mr mayor council members I appreciate the opportunity to address you uh today um I would like to um convince you all that I'm not against lighting but if I could get yall to turn out the lights so I've got some dark slides here and a couple of demos that I'm going to do um that hopefully won't take too long and uh I can um well I want to bring you up to date real quick about what's going on in our neck of the woods at McDonald Observatory is that there thank you um we have uh been here since 1932 uh the 82in telescope was the second largest in the world when it was dedicated at in 1939 which means we are celebrating 75 years of that instrument more in demand today than it ever was um this is uh the Dark Sky Region uh in uh in West Texas uh centered on McDonald Observatory this uh data was actually taken in 1997 the region up around the peran Basin is significantly uh more lit today from all the oil and gas activity but that's a topic for a completely different uh conversation um I would like to point out that um we have a dark sky Reserve um in 1980 uh the Texas legislature uh gave the seven counties surrounding McDonald Observatory the authority to enact outdoor lighting ordinances the language read and I'm paraphrasing that any County any part of which Falls within 57 air miles of McDonald Observatory May adopt outdoor lighting ordinances designed to protect the dark guys for ongoing astronomical research at this University of Texas facility um six out of Seven Counties did adopt ordinances voluntarily in uh June of 2011 Governor Perry signed a bill into law that changed the language from these counties May adopt to these counties shall adopt and included all of the

[0:57:45] Cities within since the 1 of January 2012 Reeves County uh the cities of posos balar and Fort Stockton have all adopted outdoor lighting ordinances and Valentine and Presidio are currently considering uh language today uh okay um don't read everything uh don't believe everything that you read in the newspaper um this is not an anti-light campaign this is often the first assumption that people will jump to they hear I'm an astronomer I'm coming from McDonald Observatory and I want to talk about dark sky preservation and Outdoor Lighting control and they often think that my goal goal is to get you to turn out the lights uh pull the plug leave you in the dark take your Safety and Security away at night uh that is simply not true what we are encouraging people to do is adopt good lighting and I'd like to just illustrate what I mean by that here with a few slides and a couple of brief demos um this is a picture it's actually U several decades old now but it still serves to illustrate the point quite well this is looking out over the City of Tucson University of Arizona campus um Tucson has had a lighting ordinance in place since 1973 uh since because of its proximity to our national Observatory at kit Peak um most of the lighting in Tucson is very good and you can see several facilities that do not or did not when this picture was taken um did not comply with the local ordinance U they stand out kind of like sore thumbs and keep in mind this image this picture was taken from the top of a five-story building looking down on the city's slides um this is a a swimming pool complex on the University of Arizona campus and this is a tennis court complex on the University campus um and notice that uh you can see the sources of the light at the swimming pool complex the light bulbs are visible from above indicating that the light is going above the Horizon being wasted into the sky you may also notice that the tennis court

[0:59:48] complex is very well lit but you do not see the sources of the light the light bulbs are not Vis not visible from above they are housed in a fully shielded what we call a shoe box fixture uh that put the light down into the sides where it's needed uh and not wasted up into the sky same thing with the street lighting um you'll see well lit streets intersection sidewalks but you don't see the sources of the lights they there's one light pole that's silhouetted here and then you can see the the lights lighting up their poles going all the way down Campbell Avenue here this is good lighting this is the kind of stuff that we are trying to promote um in 1999 former Governor Bush signed a bill into law that requires any new state funded lighting to conform to this fully shielded standard um this is a a roadway light fixture that has been adopted by tech. as the standard since 99 you will see thousands of these all around the state here in the city of St Angelo and every other city in the state and all along Texas highways uh so this is really leading by example it's a flat lens all the light goes down to the sides um where it's needed and not wasted into the night sky again this is uh leading by example uh for Tex we appreciate that um high mass lighting same thing tall pole cluster the floods around the top light up a large area from above um no lighting going into the sky here is a Stripes facility that um went in an Alpine in violation of the the city ordinance there um it was simply a matter of lack of awareness this was back when gasoline was $2.7 a gallon by the way um and uh well um the first people to complain actually lived across the street as you can see um yeah we're talking you know tops of trees lit well uh and we're it's just light coming out from under a gas pump

[1:01:50] canopy okay uh to their credit uh stripe stepped up and relit the store uh to bring themselves into compliance with the Alpine city ordinance now mind you it cost them an extra dollar a gallon of gasoline to do that but some somebody had to pay for it right but it's good lighting I mean uh let me just show you the compare what what they did was was to go to flush mount um recessed LED canopy lighting over the gas pumps and around the Dock of the building to light up the sidewalk still very well-lit property but here's a comparison before and after top to bottom in terms of off property light uh you can see the end of the strip mall here uh before the retrofit was done and then after um and again most of the light is staying on the property uh and very well-lit facilities there now what got the stripes people's attention was the power consumption they went from drawing 5700 watts per gas pump canopy to 1,500 watts per gas pump canopy times 4 80 stores chain wide all right so you can hear the wheels turning all of the new Stripes facilities going in around the state and New Mexico um conform to this same uh standard uh this is in Marble Falls um again well lit gas pumps actually way over lit gas pumps it turns out you there's this is more light than is recommended for an operating theater in hospital actually to top off your car at night so but at least it's not shining off property and up into the sky uh same thing with the parking lot lighting um it's fully shielded LEDs and if you notice the the wall packs or the fixtures mounted on the walls there see the footprint of the light which goes down into the sides and not shining up the side of the building not going into the sky not going off property so that's good lighting this is the kind of stuff that we're in favor of again it's it's may be overlit but it is a step in the right direction um now for my my short demos here um glare is really

[1:03:56] the the biggest um threat to good nighttime visibility and I'd like to try and illustrate that for you um well I've got one over here just a inexpensive flood light which I got from um thank you which I got from Home Depot and um aot it's about aiming and shielding aiming and shielding are the two things that I'd like to talk about uh to uh illustrate glare people will typically take a flood light and put it on a pole and try and light up the largest piece of property they can with the fewest number of of light of flood light so they'll will often just aim it sideways like this and you can see the distribution of light coming out of the flood light the flood light aimed horizontally sideways half of the light 50% of the light is going above the Horizon up into the sky it is wasted um and you'll notice also Al a dark area below where the the light is mounted let's just for argument sake say that um our property line is the top of the stairs that leading up to your Podium um well first from an astronomical dark sky preservation point of view we would ask that the light be aimed down to where that upper distribution goes below the Horizon now it's no longer shining into the sky uh it's no longer a threat uh to astronomy however you may have a neighbor three blocks down the road where the door is um that this light is shining in their bedroom window keeping them up at night I hear this a lot get a lot of calls from people saying my neighbor is keeping me up from their lighting anyway um so we would ask that you continue to aim the light down until the distri upper distribution reaches your property line and notice you give a lot more light uh here in fact the the the 50% of the light half of the light that was being wasted into the sky is now down on your property and the glare is reduced

[1:06:00] you don't the idea with glare if you see the bare naked light bulb then it hampers your visibility all right so I can see the shadow line going up as long as you don't see the bul it's it's good but once the bul becomes visible I can demonstrate glare for you guys too sorry don't want to hurt you but uh hopefully that helps illustrate about aiming um a fixture and then one more um little demo with regard to shielding and this is a simple demonstration I use it in classrooms all the time and it seems to work really well this is just a doublea MAG light and what I need is a piece of property here and the place to put it you all have to excuse me um I want the council members to be able to see this my apologies to to the audience that may not be able to see I'll be blocking your view but I can just turn this into a lamp post by taking the taking the lens off the front and then light up this piece of property there's enough light still coming from the podium area but you'll notice there's a shadow down here and most of the light is going Skyward uh with this simple Shield this is just a piece of PBC pipe cap um I can put the wasted light back down onto the property the other thing is I can see the shadow line here when you see the bulb when you see that Bare Bulb in your eye the glare all right your pupil constricts your nighttime visibility is impaired all right so the idea is to Shield the light such that the B disappears from you and you have more light now down on the property okay so those really are the two uh things to consider how the light well it's really where the light goes when it leaves the light fixture this whole question of light trespass of light being a nuisance uh shining on someone else's property the whole question of dark sky

[1:08:05] preservation um light pollution it would all go away if people would simply keep their own light on their own property then problem solved okay um so with those few slides and those brief demonstrations I'm happy to respond to any questions that you might have trying to a little light on I know that this issue has come up for the city and I was glad to be invited to come come talk about it we appreciate that that was that was very educational do I have any questions for the for the gentlemen thank you sir very much very much and uh this I got the wrong one didn't I try that again and I'd like to present uh Mr James Flores who's who's going to be managing the the uh ordinance um monitoring the ordinance and he's he got a short presentation to um show you what the ordinance is about good morning James good morning C mayor City staff uh as the department that does enforce the ordinance for the city of Sanga we uh we have been contacted uh numerous times about this issue U which is why we've brought it forth I guess with the help of councilman Fleming um so I'm just going to go over what we've compiled basically U after we looked at the issue and decided that there was a reason to pursue an ordinance due to lack of having one uh we just Struck from other cities that do have ordinances and we think we've compiled one that is about as um Good As It Gets but that's for you guys to to let us know so uh I'll I'll guess I'll realize how good we were after this presentation

[1:10:09] we basically have some definitions for you um some standards and some exemptions uh some exemptions are going to include public ways or areas for public benefit uh Parks uh stuff like that monuments uh areas that are required by law to be lit up um holiday decorations uh not to exceed 14 days that one we we uh pondered upon for a little bit because you know some people start a month early some people start two months early I personally have Christmas lights up all year long so I would be in violation I guess of this ordinance but uh anyway uh we are have an allowance of not to exceed 14 days before or after the the particular uh holiday that that that you want to light your house up with u special events authorized by Council City staff and of course fossil fuel lighting uh would be allowed um and then we have a section that will go over the determination of light trespass basically will be a guideline for officers or for staff or even for the public to decipher whether or not maybe a violation is occurring uh we cover security lighting in this ordinance and of course we cover non-conforming outdoor luminaries um we do offer compliance methods uh in in this ordinance U and then of course enforcement violation and penalty but the compliance method uh we basically have it uh I think that's probably where we think it's pretty good uh it is a common sense approach to um you know someone lighting up their property uh but it's also a common sense approach to when a violation occurs so um with that I we'll take any questions that you have in regards to those issues Rodney is there any way we can where where'd you come up with the 14 days at that was an average uh there's some cities that are a lot stricter there's some that are a little more lenient so we kind of took an average and and I think that one probably bumped Bob's and I's head for a little bit because there is a a strong opinion of you know I want to do it a month before and a month after um and like I said a guy like me that does them all year long you know so

[1:12:12] we came up with 14 on an average okay and again it's going to depend on if someone calls in a complaint so if you have lights out it's not bother anybody you should be okay can we change that to 30 you can change it to whatever you want uh because if a complaint doesn't come in then it's irrelevant right uh but you can change it I can just see you know I myself for Christmas every year I put out our lights usually the day after Thanksgiving Christmas vacation and I I think that all my neighbors in my neighborhood do almost the same thing Santa Rita I know has does does that a lot and I think 14 days is not you're saying that if that they were reported well I can see those neighbors that don't like you to begin with and then they are going to report you sure and I think that 30 days would be a better even if we could do 30 days on at Christmas maybe BB yeah I just I would feel better about it about it so you guys and I don't want to make you guys have extra work also I mean I can see the 14 days being reported a bunch by people that are just upset with their neighbors to begin with well and I think again we we uh we took into consideration the the the bare basic of a complaint being generous ated so uh the day I I don't think is going to burden anybody from a you know working standpoint I guess it could be 30 it could be 40 it could be 14 7 um because it is complaint-based we're not going to be proactively searching for light violations in the city of s Angelo okay and quite frankly that's not the reason Christmas lights is not the reason that we ask for this ordinance is for these big lights that flood the whole neighborhoods correct so really uh this kind of Mo point out can I can honestly say from the uh complaints that I've gotten thus far it has all been U security lights commercial lighting stuff like that it it it we don't get this in in and I wouldn't mind Christmas lights taken out of that completely but yeah actually yeah that's that's not why we asked for the ordinance well and I think the reason some cities put those

[1:14:13] in there is because today's lights are becoming LED uh they are pretty bright and and it does you know it can cause an effect to somebody across the street that that wants to sleep but uh 30 I can change it to 304 whatever you guys want is what we'll do well the other thing and I don't know I don't know if I'm jumping the gun on your presentation here but um and I've read this but just for the public I want them to know this is going to be a retroactive type thing so the the person that I'm talking about on Christoval Highway out there that has basically a football field next to them they're going to have to change the lighting right after second read it becomes lost because it's a nuisance category and change it to keep it on their property like we're talking about which was an awesome right any complaint that comes in after the second read it would be L and that's the way I read it I just wanted to make sure that's really clear to the public that's out there that we want to we want to keep that going and um I think that this is a great uh ordinance I would I wouldn't mind changing it to 30 days on the Christmas deal just to make it easy but I move that we accept this changing the days to 30 days the rest as written is is the is that any holiday or it was any holiday yeah any holiday that Christmas lights are used I guess well some people put it up for Halloween too I I don't just wondering to get every every day did you have a comment Mr yes um guys as an enforcement off officer uh this deal calculate as the sum of the initial lumens produced by the Li and meeting elements of an individual luminary multiplied by the luminary efficiency if the efficiency is not known for a non- LED luminary assume 70% if the inefficiency is not known for Led assume 95% and it goes on and on that they're you're going to file and and the judge is not going to do anything because you what you're trying to say is the lights's too bright I I think we

[1:16:17] need to reward this thing to where the the bottom line is if you have a bright light it has to stay on your property exactly what the presenter said and nowhere in this Ordinance do I see that it basically says comes out black and white and says you've got to keep your light on your property you know I think that's that's a a flaw and then along with the uh uh the complaint portion of it uh that it has to be in writing I don't know of of any other complaint that has to has to been riding why can't a person just call in and say Hey you know this this Neighbor Next Door has a 500 watt bulb that's shining in my bedroom uh why does he have to have to come in and and write it out and and order to make a complaint and on Code Enforcement do you have night enforcers are y'all going to go out at night after you receive the complain and and do you have uh something that will will measure the the luminaries the illumination uh something that can be documented to where it is enforcable we we looked at that uh and and basically uh the uh the long story short is if you can see the bulb from the property line it's a violation uh we got into you know the uh help me out here Bob the uh the the measurement we we talked to a couple of people there is instruments out there that you can stick 4T above the ground 5 ft above the ground whichever whichever way you want to go ordinance wise but I want to go back to the complaint the written complaint um there is a reason for that uh and and I think it's just like the the The Barking Dog complaint uh currently that is another issue that uh does not get filed in the quarter law unless the the complainant is willing to go forth and file that uh and I think that's that needs to be put in there because we could be going all over town

[1:18:20] uh for we do it now uh from a regular code standpoint yet alone add another ordinance to tax the the department on for a light to answer your third question uh yes sir we do have night Patrol um I don't voice that publicly because we we're in the water enforcement right now uh but I will uh we come in at 2:00 in the morning we come in at 3:30 in the morning we come in at 5: in the morning uh and we adjust that and we worked that when we created the water enforcement position paid for by uh uh you know the water utilities now um which I would like to address that issue at a whole later date in time because I I think we we have found some some areas that we need that are concerning but yes we do have early early hours this would be uh if the officers in that District a complaint is filed we feel that if you manually want to come in or file a complaint sign to to the complaint that there's going to be more validity to that complaint than just my neighbor's light is on all night long uh may not be uh but that's that's I guess we we'll just have to see how that works but that's the same thing with the Barking Dog issue um if not we would probably get a a ton of these uh and I'll be honest the ones that we do get I will personally call the offending property um or or the the uh the offendor uh of whatever property and they fix it they really do fix it they Shield it it's a simple phone call many of times we do have some issues right now that U that's not that's not being worked which is why we brought forth this this ordinance but I think that's the real root of why we're asking people if you really feel that there's a violation if you really are getting kept up at night then you're probably going to come in and sign a form I don't think that's too much to ask um and that's why we have that in there but we can take all that out uh you know we can take any of this out well and like I said my my worst thing is is just the fact that you know I didn't find it in black and white simple English said if you have have a a large light it has to be kept on your property uh you know rather than yeah I think under trespass is where it's at um

[1:20:23] section A a addresses the shield the standard is under 8202 if I might and I'd like to comment about the written uh requirement for a written complaint whenever there's an opportunity opportunity thank you um this we must recall that all offences under city ordinances are classy misdemeanors and just like any other offense we have to think forward of proving up the complaint in court so this would document and be factual just like any other offense report or victim statement it it really needs to be treated the same way uh to document the events that occurred Charlotte if it's in writing it just simply gives the validity of the complaint instead of uh iate neighbor I don't like you personally and I'm going to just make your life miserable by phone complaint so if they're wanting to complaint and valid complaint they'll put it in writing and that's it's better for you I would assume to go forward with anything in the courts if it went that far you show uh the written complaints that You' received correct and and I think I was probably the the the bigger proponent of the uh writing in because we do respond to a lot of complaints that do not justify a violation of ordinance and uh you know with with uh I mean just for whatever it's worth for efficiency sake uh I wanted to make sure that there was a little more validity placed on that complaint so that if I do have an officer that's going to come in after hours um there there's there's reason to send him out or more of a reason to send him out um so I think I was a bigger proponent of the of the the written complaint issue may I add something right here yes ma'am uh Mr Force I want to thank you uh I uh went out on a citizen complaint to gentlemen my constituents my area wanted me to come

[1:22:25] and look at some problems in View and help them out your first month here both of them remembered you and remembered your name because you personally handled some items for them in in code enforcement and took care of the problem and and made a super good impression and I appreciate that thank you well you're welcome I work for you and your your constituent so anything I need to do I'll do it any other comments Mr I like the concept I think it makes us all more neighborly Y and and maybe Dawn in the end is worried that as long as it's enforcable and you've got what you need to to go forth and do something I think that's that's really all we all we need to know as for 30 or 45 days I don't care um I like holiday lights and I wouldn't want to discourage that except I believe that there are 12 Days of Christmas and they begin at Christmas and they end on Epiphany so I just want to make sure that um I'm not hamstrung in that and that I can celebrate the holiday is as I was taught so anyone else John James I just want to add I'm sitting here thinking uh you know I understand the the lights out there on the old cristoval road but what about lights at the stadium is that going to affect the school district and their ability to no there's exemptions for that uh we took into consideration because we have had a complaint uh from Foster field residents that are getting um lit up you know on certain events but there is is there is allowances and exemptions for that um and every ordinance that we studied had exemptions for that for for extracurricular activities most of them are done by 11:00 p.m. I think the July 4th event at the Colt stadium is probably the only one that goes that late but U there was exemptions for all them them entities and we took all that into consideration um and we can we can get down to spec specificity uh councilman vman on the if you can't see the bul from the from the offended prop line then that's how it's going to be that's how it's interpreted

[1:24:27] that's how the staff is going to go out there and deter whether one I just think anyone reading the code if that was black and white easy to read Because I can I can add something to that second go around just kiss keep it simple sure uh you know I after being in enforcement like you are have been for a long time it's the simpler the better when the public reads it I agree it does sound like it's a a little bit of Greek in there yeah but I one last question and I'm done the dark Zone that we talked about is that the only one in Texas or I don't guess I didn't see tomine County anywhere close by it but uh ordinarily counties in Texas don't have the authority to legislate ordinarily counties in Texas don't have the authority to legislate ordinances but the the state did uh give special it was enabling legislation authorizing those seven count counties um for the protection of McDonald Observatory now that law was amended some years ago to include uh George observatory in in brades spin State Park I guess that's Fort Ben County I think um and then the observatory step F Aus so the the legislature legislature has centered on authorizing counties that have uh major observatories within them to do that thank you thank you anyone else care to comment on this from Council Marty I I'll go ahead and second motion I don't think we have a second to the to Rodney's motion I I'll what is the motion that we accept the or that we accept the ordinance as written except change the days from 14 days to 30 days and 45 can 45 days could you add what Don was asking for put some simple language in there yeah for the second reading by a second reading yeah and and is it 45 or 30 that's do 45 days I I I think that'll get the whole year that way you know because you can go from give me a little extra time Jam well I want to make I want to make Liz happy on

[1:26:29] her first day she wants 45 days you can go from Christmas to Valentine's to yeah uh councilman do you want it to be up uh completed at the end of the holiday in other words 30 days uh before Christmas or on Christmas then after that you've got a day or so to take your lights down or 30 days in between or how do you want to do that it'd probably be easier to define a season rather than someone actually having to wonder how about Thanksgiving through Easter that'll take care of it so you're penalize my Halloween and Fourth of July we'll get them all so so it could be could be 30 days I before the holiday and then s days afterwards to let's do 45 days before and 14 days after okay I'd like to mention that we're not specific as to the Christmas holiday because no it's religions H would have lights that's right all right I think we've got a motion we've got a second does anybody else Council want to comment on this I kind of like 44 days yeah I'm going to open this up to the public now this is your opportunity to speak if you have anything you need to state your name you've got three to five yest sir my name is John babber and I have a home out on lake nasworthy off of a Sleepy Hollow and myself and my neighbors are a victim of nuisance SL security lighting and while we respect our neighbors to have security lighting and on their property like you said just keep it on your property because out on the lake not only do you get the light you get the reflection off the water so you're basically getting a double whammy and that's what we're asking is just keep the light on your own property that's all we want appreciate your time I think this will address it sir okay great thank you anyone else care to speak Mr corse you have three to five sir thank you mayor and councel Gary corse I'm a develop ER here in s Angelo oh this is new I didn't know we was having this kind of problem I appreciate the man's

[1:28:32] presentation that was good I visited McDonald Observatory and I understand the light pollution issues I saw his drawing there showing the areas it's uh how bad of an issue is it in s Angelo are we having a lot of complaints uh we are having a lot of complaints I've had three in my in my district alone I think my district is where all these complaints are coming from well I've I've had two in mine or on the North End in the last week last year uh the last six months six months okay and it's ongoing and they the people have been confronted with this I mean his neighbors out at the lake I went out there I've been out to his to his little block there twice looking at it and we've we've tried to bobing those guys have confronted that person that has them they've asked them to help they're they're not doing it so that's why we're going to this next step it's kind of The Barking Dog thing it's going to be hard to enforce and I also have had one from the lake as well I had a meeting with a couple of women more rules upon more rules upon more rules now let's remember code enforcement started out as a reactive enforcement agency now it's proactive but we won't go there I'm having problems in my mind uh about the safety of my new developments I have two streets that I've put in in the last three years that I don't have uh any City lighting from the uh uh light Po or the and I'm having to put uh I put Co what I call coach lights on the front of my garages because I cannot get pull the microphone over I I cannot get any I cannot get any Street Lighting on my streets and uh it's it's a battle it's always been a battle so I put coach lights on front of my garages on my front entry garages and you can see the bulb and what it does it lights up the property and it's lighting up the street so if we have emergency vehicles come down they can see the addresses and they know where they are I have big issues getting public Street Lighting in my subdivisions okay it's number one number two what about the security lighting that people put on with the bulbs that come on for 15

[1:30:36] seconds or 30 seconds and then go off is that going to be outlawed is that not going to be allowed well Gary it's only a problem if someone complains well I know but again code enforcement started out as a reactive organization now they're proactive they could actually technically go around and look if they wanted to I'm not saying they're going to today or tomorrow next week but 3 years from now go around looking at people's life you're in violation you know I mean it can be done there has to be some thought careful thought put into this on what y fixing to do you're going to block uh take a brush and paint over and say all right it's going to cover everything it's not you're going to have problems I have problems right now I put coach lights on my houses because I cannot get street lights in my subdivisions why can't you get street lights in your subdivisions like pulling teeth with tweezers it just doesn't happen one it sounds like that's the problem we need to address one one one entity blames the other one time it was a budget then previous it was a city budget to pay the light bill yeah so if you if it's a budget problem to pay the light bill I put coach lights on my houses so it can shine out into the middle of the street there is a top over it I'm sure some of it's going up you know they're going to and if it's uh if it's a uh retroactive there'll be about 300 houses out there that I'm aware of they'll be in violation right off just me yeah so you going to force them to go change their light fixtures let me ask Mr cortiz uh in reading this it says new and light on Residential Properties in particular say in my district all the commercial construction that is going on if you have a house out in the Bluffs and all the commercial that's being built if we

[1:32:38] don't try to do something to control that lighting it's just getting brighter and brighter and brighter you can read your newspaper out in the yard out at the Bluffs because of the lighting um is that what you're trying to Target uh here Rodney it cuz it says residential yeah it's it's both though because the the Christoval Highway that's all commercial there that that moved in next door to a residential house and I mean that guy that poor guy it's the worst one yet um it's daylight there it well it's it's Commercial Lighting spilling over onto residential lighting is way I'm reading this is what we're discussing so it wouldn't it's just I haven't read it I'm just ien I haven't had time to read it I'm just thr things out there the Bluffs would be in violation on their street lights sounds like to me but the way I'm reading it is nuisance light on Residential Properties which to me that says any commercial or any other light out there we need to control what kind of light so that it doesn't intrude onto that residential space right but it's it can also be lighting that is placed by a resident that's impacting the resident next door if the security lighting is such that it bleeds over onto the other property yeah that's correct I still think that the benefit far outweighs the negative here yeah I certainly want to hear you know from the builders I don't want to cause any burden or harm there but there are some neighborhoods that uh it's light personally I don't mind I've got a street light right across the street and it lights up lights up my whole front of the house I like that so if if it passes or you get second read passes so they're going to force how who's going to change will it like go out and change out the Bluffs lighting would that would that Force the Bluffs to say for instance change out their street lighting I don't see how we can make them retrofit no no okay well I had read the I had read y'all read it I'm just throwing this out uh what and the FL and the security lights that come on for 15

[1:34:42] 20 seconds I'll be out if they're shooting out toward toward the street to someone else's property yeah that would be affected okay but I I I'm kind of with Liz on this I mean I think the the benefit outweighs the negative on on this and especially when I've got I've got multiple residents out at Lake nasworthy they're around that house that we're talking we're talking about the same house I have probably four people that'll come to me in the last I've been in this job in a year I got that they came to me the first week one of them did and came to me on that deal and it still hasn't been corrected out there and they keep saying it will be corrected and then this yard comes in out here there's multiple guards coming in beside Residential Properties that have that have been out there on Christoval Highway for you know 20 years with no lights and all of a sudden they're just lit up everywhere I feel for those people I don't I don't want to put a burden on you but I also want to help take care of those people that it is affecting that that they are complaining they they have no remedy the these new commercial areas that are going in I'm assuming they have some kind of lighting code book They're going by and the code books are not requested well that's what that's part of the change he's going to change that's part of this change in the ordinance okay it's changing it to keep the light on the property and that's where we has been that the see the light bulb playing is just is you can see the light bulb and I had you know Gary my house I have that I have the same light you're talking about I have that Carriage light on my garage my garage is a side entry but I do have that and I don't think it would you know I have a low voltage in there so I don't think it's carrying overpass the property I I I'm not sure how we would address that you see the bulb You' do in violation yeah I I definitely see numerous numerous houses homes in San Angelo that will be in violation because you can see the ball but I don't think I I I'm with these two guys I don't think it's a problem as long as neighbors get along it's only a problem when when when when

[1:36:47] you when you get to the point where where neighbors can't get along and and cuz we're we're not hunting right James that's right well they weren't hunting when cold enforcement started 15 years ago they hunt now they're still not they're proactive yeah James you're proactive he's told me he's proactive in a good way are proactive in a good way I support the efforts totally uh Rody the to contain the light you know I'm just a country girl I like to see the stars at night and we have such glare of such lights we can't see the soothing effect of the stars that have on us uh I I don't agree with retrofitting I truly don't but if we go this day forward and possibly those that are out there will comply and fall into place just throwing this out what if we started this ordinance with commercial because every every problem I've I've encountered has been commercial it's not been residential so if we start this on Commercial only and let's see how it works we can come back then and add residential that's not going to solve right now that won't solve your problem complaints that I've had for the last year have not have been residents it's their next door neighbor mine mine have all been commercial with all the oil field and they're putting these huge lights up that just envelop the entire neighborhood so just a commercial just a commercial zoning would solve my problem but I I think it may in the future may need some tweaking and if we have to tweak it we'll come back and tweak it but he does have a serious problem here if we've got 300 home home owners I don't want to go back and have to change all these carriage lights and it's probably way more than 300 I mean will you want do you want to make an exception to your motion that we that we exempt these that's maybe this needs a little more work before we bring it up and vote on it it does need a little more work I'm I feel for the folks that are having the problem I've had light shining in my house one of the local new car dealerships that put in 10 years ago they just blasted the area with lights I understand what's going on uh what about

[1:38:49] your football stadiums when they turn on their lights they're exemp they exemp exemp i' I'd like to I'd like to vote on it today I think there's been a lot we got a motion in a second so we're going to have to vote on IT addresses his res if we have a problem with this we can come back and and address it at that time and and change it if we need to change it at that time perod if if we start getting a bunch of people coming in that are complaining about carriage lights which carriage lights is not what we're talking about that's not what's keeping somebody up next door we're talking it's big old flood lights that are pointed right at somebody else's house but to see the ball that's that's going to understand James does this ordinance as it's written would that go back and retro actly be make his carriage lights illegal you know I I couldn't possibly honestly answer to that at this moment it's going to be complaint-based a uh we are very proactive U we've been proactive since I've been since I took over this department and I think that's what we should be but um this is not an issue that we are going to go out and proactively search for it's just there is other issues to deal with and we don't have anything to help the four five 10 15 people out in the world that are getting affected by this uh and we may see more we may see less I don't know but U the simplest fact of the matter is that if it if there is a light offending a a a person's ability to sleep uh to feel you know and he's getting offended by that then there's just nothing to deal with and that's why we brought this forth so we're just asking for an ordinance to help deal with that James you mentioned that in the past you had have the opportunity to go out and talk to a neighbor and you for the most part had good neighbors that said you know what we'll work on that AB but you have a few of them they'll say the heck with it you know so the ones that say the heck with it those are the ones we're trying to make sure that we can get them complying to make sure that they're not affecting their neighbors is that correct correct and I think I'm sorry sorry I think also going forward you here's my here's my commercial for good zoning because what you have as the mayor pointed out is a

[1:40:51] lot of yards that are now encroaching upon residential areas or as the as zoning transitions in some of the undeveloped areas this just heads off any more of that so that people can continue to live in in areas without having to move if there is some commercial development around them I think it's good neighbor it's a good neighbor solution whether you're adjacent to commercial or just neighbor adjacent to neighbor so however you define it whatever is enforcable but I don't want us to get lost in the details and then missed the whole point of the exercise well and i' just like to expand upon the word enforcable I I've heard that so many times that something's not enforcable it is uh it is enforceable uh I think what happens is and I want to remind Council about parking and yard ordinances uh we we we went back and forth with that so much to the point where today from a perception standpoint I'm not doing my job well I'm doing my job according to the way the ordinance was adopted by Council we just had this conversation out here and I think this light uh uh intrusion could be looked at and and and uh it it could be it could be thought into too much kind of like the parking and yard ordinance it's not illegal to park something in your yard it's got something to do with the width of the size of your street You Know da d da da da this is the same thing with this light I don't want it to get so convoluted that the perception is oh it's not enforceable it is enforceable if we all work together and discuss what we're discussing right now I think we can come up with a solid ordinance that we can come back to at a later date in time that that we can change that's what we are here for and my point exactly and let me remind Council that there's a couple of Remedies you get a lighter dimmer bulb or you Shield it if you Shield it we can't from the property we won't be able to see the light bulb case solved you still you still have security you're speaking of compliance methods which we could direct uh to 8.1 1207 if that might

[1:42:54] yeah uh yes uh so there are some remedies to this uh very simple remedies um it won't be hard to enforce I don't think um anyone else from the audience care to speak on this come on up Turner don't throw another monkey wrench into things like cortiz did I actually my name is Jim Turner and I'm actually very fond of monkey wrenches I think I think they're very appropriate for government we don't really want it to get too efficient do we you have to be very careful with an ordinance like this that you don't have such a simple solution that it gets too simple if you have something that says for example if you can see the light bulb there's a problem in Mr Cortez's case where he's trying to solve an additional problem because there are no street lights out there the only way he's going to be able to use that lighting and his property for the street lights and the security and safety hood of his new development is if you can actually see the light bulb from the edge of his property because it has to be able to go onto the street if you want to take and make it reasonable and enforceable it has to be from an ad adjacent properties is where you're looking at not his property line you go to the house across the street if you can see it from their property line then yes that's an issue that's a problem if you can see it from his property line and he's lighting up the street that shouldn't be a problem that should not be a violation that's where you need to draw the line as it the property line of the property that is being infringed upon not on public property because if it goes on the public property it goes on the streets a lot of times that can be an asset so don't take and write the ordinance where it's visible from his property line make it where it's visible from an adjacent property line which would be across the street in a subdivision and that would solve the majority of your Carriage pole light problems and still allow lighting to be

[1:45:00] put in that serves the purposes of street lights until the city can actually get out there and put the street lights in like they should thank you anyone else just for clarification uh Council mayor that that that is in there it is the adjacent property line the viewing of the bulb from the adjacent property line not not the not the actual uh property that owns the light is there any way we could put some exceptions in there if you and I'm just throwing this out if you've got an area where there is no external lighting as far as street lights that maybe it would be maybe would fall under a different category CU cores has got a he's got a very he's got a unique argument there and if we've got these and I have arguments all the time from people in my area they say I don't have a street light it's dark so if you've got an area that's dark already and we're taking away the light looks to like we may be working against ourselves so it's some way could we could accept that if there is no exterior lighting if there are no street lights maybe it would fall under a little different category just throwing it out there and that could be in the second reading I'm gonna leave it like it is okay can't what is the motion again run that one by I've already lost it they we accept the motion as written changing the days from 45 days pre be prior to the holiday to 14 days after the holiday everything else has written oh no Don has something and except the uh would you add on there can't see it from the adjacent property yeah is that what you said Don yeah just however they want to word it to keep the the light on there because I I see what they quoted in there but Joe blow off the street will read that and not understand what it's saying anybody else the public we've got a motion in a second we're going to have to vote on this okay calling for the vote all in favor please say I I any oppos Nay put a 70 on

[1:47:06] it let's go on and we can tweak this thing Gary at the next at the next reading if there's something that we can do we can make we can tweak this thing and make it work for everyone we are now ready for number 10 and Darren I didn't give you an opportunity to speak when we spoke about your item while ago did we cover everything to your satisfaction or did you need to speak to it no mayor you all right yes sir okay let's go on to number 10 then first public hearing consideration of introducing an ordinance amending the code of ordinance of city of s Angelo by amending chapter 4 building and construction article 4100 Administration restating section 411 adoption of codes part A subp Part 7 adopting the international code 209 is addition fire code Exempted there from and stating certain sections providing for severability providing for an effective date brother Howard you are on Sir okay good morning mayor and members of the city council this is a long awaited uh item number 10 which are proposed recommendations for changes to international fire code so as you know we've there's been much dialogue about the need to look at changes to the international fire code to provide for or consider um conditions relative to Market that would warrant some change or flexibility related I'm sorry to what's currently in the ordinance so the proposed action today uh suggests that we amend section 503 of the ordinance that talks about additional access which now provides for cross referencing back to the criteria identified in appendix D additionally we want to provide language that allows for more flexibility as it relates to the remoteness clause and then lastly changes to section uh d107 appendix D that talks about a tiered requirement for secondary access okay so proposed action a talks

[1:49:11] about essentially just referencing back to criteria for the requirement for additional access and that would be referenced back to D appendix d107 the section related to remoteness I've summarized here whereby in in situations where there is challenges related to distance between uh two access roads there would be three criteria that would be established that you have in your packet uh that would allow for this situation to occur and then lastly I guess the the object of most of the discussion was a tiered requirement for secondary access and I I'll go through this um essentially what happens as it relates to what's being proposed is that we want to allow for developments up to 75 residental units with only one means of access um additionally we want allow for dwelling units to exceed 75 units with uh a few exceptions if all the units are sprinklered within the development then obviously there would be no need for secondary access uh with units up to 75 165 allowed if in fact future development uh is allowed for a connection then there would not be a requirement for secondary access for up to 70 275 units there would be one required improved access point and then one unimproved required access and then for units uh for unit or development greater than 275 units then there would be two improved access roads required additionally it was concerned about developments that were already underway or had been initiated and there is also language that suggests that I as the Director of development and Serv development services in consultation with other staff would be able to Grant relief for these projects under the guise of the current ordinance we believe that the proposal

[1:51:16] is reasonable it considers market conditions and also provides the flexibility that's been asked for and uh I ask for um comment at this time if there is any go back a couple of slides back to that 75 with sprinklers I don't remember that one that one was existing it was existing so that's going to go away no that's an exception and that exception wasn't so essentially 75 units or below obviously there's no requirement for secondary access if you exceed 75 units then you have options for the requirement and so essentially you could sprinkle all the units but again that wasn't necessarily something was really debated because the concern was the access or you could go to 165 on the next page or 275 that's correct okay okay but I I tried to put AA really big so you could okay so you'd see it developers yall happy with this Tony cores Rocky I move approval approve second okay I've got a approval from Marty and I heard a second down here somewhere Rodney we do have a motion to approve this as written we do have a second do I have further discussion from I like to discuss a bit and I realize I it you have been recognized I realized this is something that y'all may have been working on before uh my recent arrival um is the fire chief here to to answer some questions there he is there he is just walked in um that little magic room back there I'm worried about something that um that Patrick mentioned and that was a response to Market pressure I'm not sure that I would ever sacrifice safety for Market pressure um I've worked on something similar to this and and heard a presentation by Chief Dunn about how the city fights a fire and why secondary access is so important so I'm not going to say that I'm absolutely against this

[1:53:20] but I'd like to know how our philosophy has changed so dramatically because there there are a lot of units that you're allowing now um with only one means of access well that's above my um no it's not recommendation okay um when we fight a fire generally uh if you have a house on fire on a street the the first end unit comes in from that direction if they lay big hose nothing is going to come in behind them so generally if you see any of our fires at a lot of places there's trucks coming from multiple directions because we we almost block our own access off to get water to put it out and we try to get in there as quick as we can to limit damage to the structures we do carry tank water but it is a limited Supply and we'll only last a couple minutes so um and getting people out uh a lot of the other times getting people out while we're trying to get in there and do stuff can be an issue so my problem is with this I was taught by this man how we fight fires and so I I believe that these the proposed action here there is some sacrifice and I'm going to worry more about the homeowners I don't think this is going to be too relevant in my district it's pretty well built out uh but I do have concerns for the rest of the community so just so you know that and and we we discussed this and and um um greatly yeah we discussed it at Great length and the majority of the council uh decided that this was the action that they wanted to take after much debate and little scripture uh and and uh um there was only one person in opposition of that and the remainder of the council decided they would move forward so in the spirit of cooperation I mooving forward with them anything else need to be said from councel anything from the public need to

[1:55:23] be said on this before we take a vote Tony Jones you've got three to five sir Tony Jones developer and builder in St Angelo and I appreciate all the hard work that's gone into this especially from the staff uh I'd like to address uh Miss grind staff in in the fact that um that you uh our elected officials might have been uh responding to undue pressure uh undo not being her word being mine but essentially the same thing uh the pressure uh Miss gr staff came from uh the community and from staff uh over a year ago uh in that we as a business in St Angelo Texas were tasked to further develop St Angelo and come online with housing that was both affordable uh and available and so uh as a business Community uh we began to respond to that as best we could and what we encountered was a black and white uh interpretation of a fire code that's been in place and adopted since 2001 and so while it may to to an outsider or a former uh staff member have felt like like undo pressure uh it was simply the matter of supply and demand uh and the fact that San Angelo needed to move forward uh as best it could in a reliable way uh my comment before was that uh since since I've been aware of development in St Angelo uh early 60s or late 60s early '70s uh that there's not been uh a

[1:57:25] subdivision that has been put in in St Angelo that has caused undo safety uh situations we don't know that there's ever been a fire that Mr Dunn in his fire department could not respond to in St Angelo Texas uh the fires uh well uh you know we could engineer ad nauseum uh on a situation the space shuttle is built with a factor of safety times 7 uh and they still blow up and so uh could we afford to do the things that would be uh optimal for a fire department in St Angelo Texas yes we could could anyone afford to buy the homes no they could not uh and so while some situations are ideal and more convenient for uh situations that we could all think up worst case scenarios I'm sure they are but what I would like to assure you is that the industry that I'm a part of uh in no manner uh or stretch of the imagination is willing to risk safety for and so um that's all I have and I appreciate everybody's hard work especially Patrick's uh and the fire department thank you Tony anyone else care to speak to this before we vote do have a motion and a second to approve it is written if there did you have something Miss Patrick no I didn't okay if there's no further let's take a vote all in favor please say I I any opposed nay nay okay we have a 61 on that uh it is 11:32 Council need to take 5 minutes or so let's let's take five minutes it is 11:43 let's see if we can get another one or two of these done before we break for lunch we are now to number 11 which is consideration of awarding fq W1 1413 to Alan plumber Associates Incorporated to evaluate

[1:59:27] reclaimed water Alternatives including nonpotable pable or potable potable non potable and potable reuse Alternatives in the amount not to exceed $189 $965,000 and authorizing city manager to execute contract Mr Dixon good good morning Council barely still we got a little bit of time left uh uh we're back at this council meeting it's last council meeting there was lengthy discussion of this topic and some questions were brought up and I I've tried to gather those answers for you for this meeting um one of the questions um I think that came up was uh some con concerns about our contract with the district and the Bureau of Reclamation that is pretty much over all of this anyway we have checked with legal councel and our what we thought was correct on the contract with the water control improvement district is correct we have a out of that contract with a one year's notice so that's all good um so I don't think that's an issue unless I miss something another deal um Rodney I think you asked it um one of those check with which all falls and see what they did uh we did that uh they are still in the process of trying to get that done themselves they highly recommended for us to use a consultant that's familiar with the work and that has a good working relationship with the tcq they still do not have approval they're still doing pilot tests and stuff so we did check on that and that kind of gets back to I think your issue Don of think staff can handle this well I don't think staff can handle this this is too specialized it's too new and the there's just uh everything is a case- by casee basis Big Springs um is doing this which sh Falls is trying to do this is my understanding it's only

[2:01:30] two places in the nation that are currently doing this everything's on a case- by case basis there's no set rules in place for this so I think it's uh imperative um that we proceed with this and have them do this study um and just for some background that maybe somebody hadn't thought of that why this is is important to me as we look down the road and this drought that we're in is UN relenting and if we we've got the Hickory coming online and you know we're going to we're going to have some water it may not be enough water if the drought continues and we're totally relying on Hickory and having to take that full 9 million gallons a day we got about 5 years when that banked water that we have that will last that 5 years is gone we're back down to about 2 8 to 3 million gallons a day if we get six or S million out of this water that puts us back in this nine 10 million gallon number which is not great but we have enough water to work on so with that I think that covered all the questions but I'll try to answer anything else that you have well questions who who Who's first John go ahead Mr Dixon I think the the one concern that has brought to my attention and I appreciate Miss farmer uh reaching back in her memory bank but and I wasn't here in ' 06 and I understand a study like this was done uh in '06 and I understand there was a purchase of order 160,000 of which 155,000 was paid for that's correct so what what became of that study and that study I think that study is still a a great benefit to the city but it did not really address any poble issues it was all more of a nonpotable the technology just wasn't available back then I think uh with us going with alen plumber will save us a lot of money on this study that we're trying to do now that we would have had to pay for some more if we were going to

[2:03:33] look at these issues again so I think it's a good building block there's some additional users that I think that we can add on that on the non-potable side if that's some of the U projects that we want to contemplate but I think it was money well spent back when it was done but there's been so many advancements in new technologies that I think now we have an opportunity to look potable water supply so is there any portion of that study that we could bring forward yes we will be using nearly all of that study in addition with what they're going to work on so we just back to another 18 that's correct 89,000 that's correct that that's where some folks were I understand had concerns about it's a lot of money I understand that but it's a lot of water and it's guaranteed Water Charlotte well I've you said the a contract yes ma'am that we could get out of can you say which contract you're referring to so I can look at and and get in my mind and I agree someone with expertise of this because I have read more contracts and amendments and amendments and resolutions then I care to read that I don't get paid to do but if we have understand I've been dealing with that also I get the little bucks I hear you um it's it's basically covered in Amendment nine u between United States America Department of the interial Bureau of Reclamation s Angelo project um it talks in here of of of the updates that they they did to that and also included in that was the agreement for use of reclaimed water that was signed and I think I'm it's D on here um October 1997 that talks about um the respons abilities of the parties and stuff and it um under the termination this agreement may be terminated by either party without cause upon giving the other party at least one year's prior notice so that's you're talking about

[2:05:37] our release requirements I'm sorry are you referring to what we're required to release yes yes the contract of what were required to release release okay the water down to the district yes yes that's what I just read from that's what you just read yes ma'am so one year termination Clause could I have a copy of that after this evening not right this minute sure if you could get that please I'll be glad to provide that thank you um I have a copy here that c the amendment and the Not only that document the agreement for reclaim water but also the agreement for the use of twin beats water that is in important in this um so anyone else Marty well as in last time I'm I'm not really in favor of studies but I think U after seeing uh the Big Springs plant I think uh we we've already lost two weeks and I think we need to move forward and I move that we uh accept this I second that Don I you know last time I want everyone to understand that I was not opposed to this at all it kind of goes back to what Rodney was talking about earlier uh my thought on it was if we can do some gopher work where we can cut this thing down by uh some amount of money and and I assure you Don we will be working very close with these consultants and anything that we can take off of their plate we will be glad to do and we we will do that for them to try to lessen this blow as much as we can but I definitely agree with we don't need to to wait on anything no we're behind did you have anything Miss grindstaff no I'm in favor no I just want to move forward let's get this done do I have any comment on this from the audience do have a motion I do have a second that we move along with the Study

[2:07:39] Allan plumber not to exceed $19,995 all in favor please say I I any oppose nay nay I do have a 61 vote to approve this okay what do y'all think we ought to deal with next we got about 5 minutes until lunch time you want to go ahead and break for lunch and come back pick the rest of this up no we have a lot of we have a lot of guests here for one item I know but I don't think there's anything we can deal with in less than 30 minutes oh yeah we're good you all right you bet I don't have 30 minutes worth of words what else do you have to deal with uh Rya and water rates for drop level three can we deal with red aoya in four minutes right let's break for lunch let's break for lunch we'll come back after lunch it is 11:53 I don't think we'll be gone longer than 45 minutes so we ought to be back in here by I'd say 12:45 say Pac I apologize to you but we're glad you get to spend the day with us we'll see you back in here in about 45 minutes it's 12:40 let's go ahead and get started number 12 update on and possible action regarding the r aoya feasibility study Mr Dixon thank you Council mayor as you're aware at the meeting we had on in March of this year uh we talked about the redoy and and the different parts of that project and you all instructed us to go back and get with all the players and see what we need to do to resolve some of the constructibility issues and items associated with that project which we did we met with um UC HDR engineering Jacobs Engineering um Dr Brandis Lloyd golink and Austin U

[2:09:45] me Kevin city manager was there and talked about and and I think we come to anre agreement on the additional work that needs to be done and that's what this is today um there's great concern of the underground water issues with that project and I think uh this additional work will finally shed some light on that on uh exactly what it's going to entail to construct this project if that is the choice and and the possible cost to that project I think we can uh better Define it with this additional work uh between um HDR in Jacobs Engineering the total not to exceed $11,400 uh and we are probably going to see uh some damages um cost related with the subject property because we're going to install some Pomer Wells to better get an idea on the groundwater to that uh on that project so we can see if there is a direct correlation with the river levels and groundwater levels over that entire project area so that's what this is about today just trying to get some direction from y'all you want to proceed with this additional cost to do this work U currently I think into the project we are about $332,000 so far so this will be on top of that so that's kind of all that I have on this I just need some Direction where we going to start I want to know how many how many acre feet of water can we get out of if if this work completed how many acre feet of water can we can we get how much can we hold how much can we have I keep hearing the 5,000 acre feet that is the maximum amount that we can carry and keep per year that's correct that's according to our water R diversions that we're using for this project that's a maximum of 5,000 acre feet a year is all

[2:11:50] that we could store or capture and possibly reuse and if we if we capture 10,000 or 20,000 acre feet only thing we can do is just let it go right on Downstream like it does now that's correct so it's going whatever it cost us we can divide that by 5,000 acre feet and that's going to tell us that's this is extremely expensive water if uh if we get the um rainfall events that would prepare runoff for this that's the maximum that we can store per year and if today not having a rain in the last year and a half it would be empty that is correct mayor Rodney you have any thoughts on this sir I'll start on your end well to me I don't want to give up on this yet because we got to keep working on everything that's out there and every single possibility there is when you said it's really expensive water our water is going to be really expensive when we don't have any water and I mean as we're going forward so I definitely don't want to kill this this project I I think we still should keep moving forward on it and make sure that we can get those when we can we can divert 5,000 acre feet which let's put this in terms everybody can understand that's basically if it were if we were able to get 5,000 acre feet that would be oneir of our water supply for one year correct real close real close to onethird onethird of our water supply for a year can still be a huge amount of water and uh you said it been a year and a half well that's not true we had had a couple little rains and what surprises everybody and I I think that all the experts are trying to figure out who's right on this is even those little rains there's a tremendous amount of water that drops through the bottom of that Ayo down there it all it's like a giant funnel and it all comes to that one point down there so I think even little range we will get water off of as far as keeping that aoy as keeping it empty down there well we would keep it empty anyways as soon as we get that water we'd use that water first that would be our our main problem is my understanding

[2:13:52] on that is when we'd fill it real quick we'd try to use every bit of it and then it would you'd want it to be empty as much as possible in case there was another rainfall that came right back behind it in the next week the only limiting factor that we would have on the use of that water is uh the amount of time necessary if to get that water to settle out cuz we're not real sure on the treatment of that yet we've been hoping for a rain that we could get a sample of it to to do some test with but that would be the only limiting factor right I I just I want us to keep move my opinion is that we we should spend a little bit more money on this we should still keep looking at this because we just don't have a lot of other viable things out there at this at this time you know we're looking at two long-term projects but they're are long-term long-term 17 years probably at the earliest if we could get either one of them worked out uh this thing could be done faster it also comes down to the money you know the reclaim water I I think we got to do that fast track we need to do that as fast as we possibly can and put our money there first because it's guaranteed water that's how much I mean we're going to get back a tremendous amount of what we put in so that's my opinion on that Ricky with this $111,000 that we're that we could spend here will this tell us what it's going to cost us on on this project cuz the last time we talked about that the the estimates were from 20 million to 50 million so if we spend this 111 would we know exactly what it's going to cost us that was the consensus of the group that this work needs to be done to really get a good determination on the cost of this project if there's a big dewatering um portion to this project that's going to run into some funds we just don't know how much there's also part of the scope of this work is if that becomes limiting the limiting factor of groundwater there also going to do some other um Basin capacities and cost based on two foot in the groundwater and five foot into the groundwater and possibly

[2:15:54] we could extrapolate that information to get if we didn't get into the groundwater at all but it's going to severely impact the size of the Basin so that was a consensus of the group that this work needs to be done Marty well I I I think I I basically agree with Rodney I think we need to do uh we need to make sure we exhaust all our possible solutions and and as it's going that way I I I'll move that we that that we do this and if y'all decide on the way y'all don't want to it can die from a lack of second well I'm going to second that but I wanted to ask Chuck out there Chuck are you happy with this is ucra happy with us moving forward on this and having these people do that and so that both groups because I know you're one side of the group and there's another the other group is kind of has the Chuck Brown UC yeah Rodney we are um I think the city is doing absolute due diligence as they should um there is some issues um with the groundwater it may be that we sized the pond smaller we missed the groundwater altogether and maybe we capture 10 rains instead of five rains um but that could also Drive the cost of the pond down as well um so that's another possibility maybe we only catch 1,000 acre feet but maybe it only cost 15 million to build I I that's that's going to be what this study is going to entail it's also going to look at you know some of the engineering factors I know there's also a uh a concern about the volume and UC is going to stand by their numbers because we we've run two of the most complex um models that are available right now for storm water it's called Swim swmm storm water management model um and these are what engineering firms run to predict hydraulics on a complex Urban wed some of the models that have previously been run by Brandis are an event-based spreadsheet model developed in the 70s this is a d Dynamic model that takes in various things a lot more than than that model does so I

[2:17:57] understand the the discrepancies and volume the the Brandis model is is very good in in uh predicting just an average thing but those are used on a much smaller Watershed and not as a dynamic Watershed as this one is so once again I'll stand by the numbers of that we've generated I can also say that in the last 6 months there hadn't been a drop of water run by that sucker and that pond would be dry but I can also tell you that it is going to rain again and when it does hopefully we're going to fill up our Lakes but we're going to be back in this situation again and we're going to need the waste water and we're going to need every resource you guys as as Community leaders task us get out there and find the pro find what we can do right and we do and we try but when we come back to you we're going to say here's what it's going to cost and like you said water is not cheap and it's going to be more expensive um so yeah I I totally endorse the city to to go ahead and further at this let's see if we can what the costs are going to be if the groundwater is too too high um let's see what we can do with the pond sizing if we can decrease the cost the construction cost if it is feasible um but yeah I would encourage you to to continue with this project what model is the third party engineering it's called a tr44 I believe 40 it's a it's a model that was uh that was created by the USDA in the mid '70s for generalized Watershed approach to urbanizing areas and in all fairness to Dr Brandis he's not here to defend that model either but of course uh as as mentioned by Chuck there is a conflict as far as how much volume uh would go into the um into that area that was debated at the meeting that we had in Austin as well and it was it was it was a little bit heated because there were some egos that got in way and uh all I can say is what the model that we run both the the T model with the original storm water program when we first started in 2010 what that model run and what we actually measured was the same as what Jacobs ran

[2:20:01] in the feasibility study that came later on and I might mention that was a feasibility study that was not an engineering study that was just a study that showed can this be done is this a plausible water supply and yes it is okay but ultimately what did come out of that meeting was a I guess a consensus that we felt that let's determine what the cost would actually be any sure that's let's let's determine the cost and let's let's see what that cost will be um and then if we want to fight over the volume later let's get after it another fight for another day Johnny what did you have on this sir you know uh I remember hearing about the meeting in Austin and and how it went and the the discrepancies and the number the the volume numbers but I want to go on record to say that I am totally totally against this project I don't want to spend another million 5 million 50 20 30 million on a on a pond out here to collect water where the water runs down there naturally anyway and if we capture some of it in our legs that's fine but I just don't believe that we need to spend another 20 another 30 million and Chuck that's again that's with respect to you I'm not sold on the idea at all so I'm going to go on record say I am totally totally against this project and that's just me I I'm elected to sit in this seat and and voice my opinion and I'm just not convinced at all I'm really not and I uh when I hear numbers when I hear folks that are griping about you know the debt that we're in already half of it which was the Hickory which is fine that took 40 Years of of pulling teeth to get it to get it here anyway but still now to add on top of this uh you know I'm not convinced I'm sorry you know I am totally totally against it so uh unless something else something new comes in my question is Ricky the 132 000 we've already spent what was that on what that was on the original feasibility study and the work that Dr Brandon did okay and now the 111 will give us a a clearer picture but up to

[2:22:06] this point up to this minute I'm not convinced at all so I'm going to go on record that that I oppose it as of you know today so no Moss no Moss short it I agree with Mr silvus uh you know I haven't seen a report of any time myself to read to look at that we've already spent $13 some odd dollars $32,000 and now we want to spend 111 more whenever it's about volume to me and there is such a discrepancy between different folks different reports as to the volume of water you know I can look back and read the last 10 years the last 20 years and what people gauge the average the annual average to be in that runoff we're pursuing the Hickory we' spent 30 million there to get water what we can get out of that we're pursuing the affluent water and the possibility of looking at that but in is it am I wrong to say that it's my understanding that the Texas water board will not approve this red aoria project or help finance and we wouldn't be eligible for financing in that but we are eligible for financing in a FL water I think we got too many irons in the fire we need to concentrate on what's best Texas water development board is going to look at the volume uh that we're proposing that we can store in that pond and if the volume is not there we're too high risk and basically they're not going to fund that so that's one thing we do know but we won't know what the volume is unless we do this study and we have a third party come in and decide between these two parties to figure this out I don't I think that you said the key word third party in be it's a third party but we've got a people don't realize the situation that we're in and if we aren't trying to pursue every single thing that we can to get water and even if it's small amounts of water it is water and without water this town will die it will die and and I don't want it to be on my head that I was one of the people that killed this town well if I just finished

[2:24:11] what I was going to say that if we get rain we're going to have runoff in the aoya but you know if we get rain we will have runoff in Ivy and OC Fisher twin butes and Lake nesworthy five sources that are already out there if we get rain and this would add a sixth place if we get rain so well if we get rain in the southwest part of Angelo it's going to go into the rooya it may not make it to Ivy and if it does it's going to evaporate you're going to evaporate 100 times the amount of water every day in Ivy that you will in this pond that's all I have Don um my thoughts on this is uh the fluent water is is uh a definite we can we know how much we're we're going to have uh we uh we're looking at at spending and we've already approved $189,000 to to look at it and and get it online I just you know uh with the Tri Cities and the amount of money that we're spending there I just I think we're we're biing off more than we can chew and I just uh I don't I don't think that this is a good bet for us I might just add and final um I've heard too many irons in the fire and biting off more than we can chew you better find every available Source you can I know that's that's that's all I have to say thank youall Miss grst I I don't want to give up on it yet I think that it's still an option and I think that at least my constituents um every place that I've been people want to talk about water and just knowing that we essentially research every option that is you know before us and this one seems like one that we should continue on um I'm not going to I don't think rank projects per se but I've I've been very positive about the effluent uh

[2:26:15] project but I don't want to I don't want to do one at the expense of the other so I think for the time being I'm very interested in continuing in investing a little bit more time and effort in this and also I think Daniel when you and I spoke I'm I'm sorry that there were ever egos involved in this in any of these projects that's not um that's not what we need we we need some uh sound research and statistics and until we see really what the volumes are on this I want to continue and I understand if if it's not something that we can look for waterboard funding then we'll make a hard decision at that time but until that until that moment I can tell you that my supporters want us to go forward with it and a reclaim project you know if we don't have water going in you ain't got water coming out well it's pretty it's pretty Common Sense I've I've explained it like a portfolio and I'm the last one that ought to speak about stocks but we have surface water we have aquafer if we can get on Reclamation I mean I think we are diversifying and being as prudent as we can for the community but if if this is something that we can use and it provides you know onethird of what our consumption is right now again I want to continue looking not going to make a decision today as you know total up or down but just to keep moving forward with it exactly I I think it's a matter of just doing due diligence right now to find out if it's it's if it's feasible I'm not I'm not saying I support a 20 million or a 30 million or a $15 million project I'm just saying I support spending $111,000 to find out what's what it what it's going to take I'm going to Second his motion you already have did I I want to Let's vote on it question see who's going to do it in our data it says 379 but the amount was 111 but there's two different two I yeah there's another one that 379 was just the Jacob's part the HD our part was 735 is where the

[2:28:22] 1114 come from Ricky my question to this are we going are we going to be hit by lawsuits from everybody down river if we do this royya project it is the firm belief of our water lawyers that no this will not have an impact on Downstream water users okay cuz I don't want to kill the river either and I think that they have those discussions with the tcq and and everybody's on the same page because I certainly want to protect St Angelo but then we have a we have a a right to protect that River as well I will take comments from the public at this time if anyone cares to speak to this yes my name is still Jim Turner one of the things you have to be very careful when you get into a very heated emotional issue like water here in San An L is you have to be careful that you don't all of a sudden kind of throw critical thought out the window we don't need to get into a situation where as soon as somebody says well it's for the water that stops that portion of the argument that somebody else was trying to make and with a project like the r Royal especially when we need it most looking at just historically rain and everything else when you need it most it's not going to be there it really isn't because it's so dependent on rain and because you have to use it as soon as you can right after the rain so you can catch the next one it is not going to be long term and in a drought situation like this it's going to be a long time before that ever a royal ever gets usable and we have to be careful that we don't divert our attention from finding a source that is going to be there during the

[2:30:23] drought things like brackish water the last brackish water we looked at was not usable for a number of technical reason but there's billions of gallons millions of acre feet of rackish water west of here that could be processed and the technology is becoming more affordable more effective more efficient and more usable all the time we'd be better off most likely putting 50 million into brackish water exploration and treatment which we know is going to be there for a lot longer and it's going to be there when it's not raining here cuz that's rain that was there a long time ago that's if we don't have the money because we' spent it on this we won't be able to do that and the second part is if we impound the water here we do have to be very very careful because no matter how small it is the surrounding water table the river a lot of Downstream ecosystem depend upon any flow that can go down that River if we impound 5,000 acre feet out of that and it doesn't go Downstream that's 5,000 acre feet that doesn't go to revitalize and keep that river system healthy and that's still 5,000 acre feet that actually doesn't end up soaking into the ground because not all of it evaporates that also replenishes Natural Springs it has an effect upon the whole surrounding areas ecosystem and the economy and livelihood and everything else Downstream those unexpected unintended consequences haven't really been looked at in enough detail yet and I think it's very premature to say that it's not going to have an impact sufficient to bring

[2:32:25] somebody with a lawsuit against us there are already ways to capture some of that water with existing infrastructure that's here not all of it but because of Permitting agreements water master and so on we can't do that we have to be very careful that when we're looking at this we are all also looking at some of these other unintended consequences that are not obvious and the key point is this needs to have very critical thought Panic is the last thing you need to do here and I'm hearing all a lot of people including some of the people sitting up there in Council it sounds to me like it's verging on panic and that's the time you make wrong decisions that you live with for a long time and if you want to kill the city off bad decisions will do it just as well as no water if not even more so thank you CH just to answer a couple of your questions one thing is the 5,000 acre feet we have rights to that as a city that's our water so we can capture that 5,000 acre feet a year that is ours not releasing it Downstream you know I want those people to be fine also but that's us that's our water that's our right to that water that we're not capturing right now as far as Panic goes I don't think we're in a panic mode what I'm trying to do here Marty said it perfectly a while ago when he said we need to do this study to find out if it's feasible to do this we have no idea ucra is saying that between 10 and 11,000 acre feet drop through there and Brandis is saying 1500 acre feet are dropping through there a year on average for the last how many ever years so we need to do this study so we can come together the two parties can figure out what is the true number if it is you know 5,000 acre feet or 7500 acre feet

[2:34:29] we can only use 5,000 acre feet but let's say it is 7500 acre feet that drops through the bottom of that every year it will be a lot more economical for us to build that possibly so in order for us to make that decision we have to do this study we have to see what all our resources are out there and this is not panic but it's getting closer and closer to going that way because we are running out of water so we have to check out every available Source that's out there if we don't do our due diligence on these things you know shame on us let's take further comment from the from the floor anyone else have comment on this I'd like to address a couple of more issues um another thing that that I think some of you are may be looking at is is this is just a municipal Supply it is that's one thing it can be it's also a storm water basin and you as a city of St Angelo have an obligation to manage your storm water to keep the pollutants from going Downstream as best as possible that's in your mandate when you're talking about 5 million pounds of sediment every year coming down the red royya you're stopping that you're stopping that so you're creating a better environment Downstream now the instream flows that Mr Turner refers to those are being addressed by the waterm your base flow releases every day is because of that a third thing that you need to be cognizant of is there is a possibility and it is not in the permit works right now but you can work to get a permit to be able to slowly release more water and this has been disagreed upon but you have the right to move 5,000 acre feet from Ben fckin Dam down to here to use as Municipal Supply you also have a duty to keep the pollutant out of the water but you can also in a third let's say we can divert 5,000 acre feet a year we believe it's there we know it's there I've measured it okay I don't care what Brandis model said I've measured it our models say it and I've measured it the third thing you could do is you

[2:36:31] could augment your releases from Twin butes in Lake nasworthy for that water Master now that's not in the works right now but that's something that can make we can probably legislatively or however we can make that happen to where you're going to let that water settle out and then you're going to release it at a certain pace which could instead of using Lake nasworthy twin butes bypass Lake nasworthy down for your waterm releases this this facility could be used as that as well so that's another option so this is not a just a a one-f project this is this is multiple and the reason we came upon this to start with is we saw that the loadings in the RoR Royo as far as pollutants go were significant now if you let them settle out it's a good it's a good quality it's a very good quality drinking water you're not going to want to put it into your plant the first day because as we all know it's called the red Roy for reason it's got those red Marine Clays that take forever to you know to settle out maybe 5 days maybe a week we need to do some some testing and as soon as it does rain and the water comes down we're going to send a bunch of water to the city lab to have them look at that to have them look at see how long it settling test and different type of stuff that they need for their treatment so I might add this is not just a not just a municipal Supply it's an it's an addition possibly to your Municipal Supply but it's also stormm water treatment and it's it also has some some additional uses that we would hope you could use for Downstream users later on thank you any other comment from the public come ahead ma'am state your name you've got three to five hi my name is Mandy Scott Texas Parks and Wildlife Inland Fisheries Division I work on the lakes and rivers in this area and um hearing the discussion about the red Royal project I I wanted to make sure and point out something keeps coming up is that the red Royal project is dependent on rainfall I wanted to point out Lake OH Ivy project is also dependent on rainfall and not just any rainfall but because of the huge you know the huge scale of it we have to think about the scale of the rainfall we're talking

[2:38:32] about OHV will not catch any water with a 1 in rainfall in St Angelo it takes four or five inches of rain in St Angelo for ohiv to come up at all I've been observing this myself in the 10 years that I've been managing the lake okay so um in San Angelo we have the opportunity with a red Royo to capture of one or 2 in rain that will never make it to oh iy to raise that level at all in the meantime we're seeing all this water rush through San Angelo I watched the ohiv water level graph keep going down it's amazing um we have you know we can't depend on oh by itself to collect one or two inch rains um because it takes a much grander scale of rain rain that's uncommon that we've we haven't had a rain like that since October 2012 we can't count on those types of rains to come at a regular enough rate to supply oh and Supply us with our water um the rer Royal and smaller projects like that can they're more predictable we can use models more efficiently and we can actually see from Models exactly what we're going to be producing um on a much more efficient much more accurate scale than we can for o Ivy ivy is not sustaining us um at the rainfall that we're getting it's not sustaining us it's been a declining pattern since 1998 we have to look at other projects I think smaller scale rain um you know water projects like the red Royal is exactly what we need to be looking at because we're going to have to take advantage of every bit of rain that we get not just the five or 6 inch rains thank you man anyone else I'm about to call for the vote so if you want your Turner you already spoke once I give you one minute and then we're going to call for the vote and then I've got you SE yes just to make it clear I'm not taking and saying you shouldn't do du I'm not saying that this needs to come off the table I am saying that you have to be careful with projects like this that you don't get wait something that's right here within the grasp without pursuing all of it and this discussion was good because

[2:40:37] this is the first time we've also heard discussed its impact on storm water and storm water quality that should have been part of the total package we didn't get the total package when it was first brought to council and we're getting that now because of questions like what I'm asking that needs to happen this needs to be looked at as a total package that not just on the water but the storm water the people downtown the economy the people Downstream all of that needs to be looked at and we have to be very careful because that is the critical thought and that needs to be part of all these water discussions not just the Motions thank you thank you Turner any else Charlotte's got a comment and I'm going to call for the boote I wanted to assure Mr Brown Mr Dixon uh I wanted to assure you this is not personal with me I think your work has always been done well and it's been presented well we're talking maybe 5 to 10,000 acre feet of water and we have another source that says 1,200 acre feet of water to 1500 acre feet that's huge that that is huge as to where where I try have to make a decision I have yet to see a 2006 study which I would like to see it before I make any hard decisions I I really feel like that we need to prioritize where we spend money instead of going off in in different directions I truly do um if it's going to catch water there are other areas that are going to catch water so should we look elsewhere for more permanent source of water um I'm just not convinced because of the disparity the numbers they're just so far apart I can only vote and believe what I'm given to look at is proof to back up what you feel uh you could sell me an igloo in the Bahamas if I didn't know any better so I have to have more information in facts

[2:42:40] to back up but there is just it's just too wide a gap for me to be in agreement to do this at this time wouldn't you want to do the study so you have those numbers is this not going to give this in numbers uh the deal here is as far as the the volume this study will not give us the volume all it's going to give us is the cost of the actual Pond this is what we're this is what what you're deciding on today I know you mentioned that a while ago but this does not give us the actual volume we have two different Engineers have given us two different volumes as Miss farmer just said a little while ago this study is just to give us an indication of the cost of building that pond if it's even feasible to build it based on the water table you know so that's what it's going to give us uh other than that if we move forward you know we have discussed and as a matter of fact um I was speaking with council member grind staff and this may have to be a third- party engineer that takes a look at this so it takes out out of the equation uh those two different Engineers reports to see in fact who has a better number but at this point all we're looking at is for this if you approve this the study will tell us how much it it cost to the different options how much it it cost us to build out this project mayor yes sir I finally just want to add that I I'm looking to both sides of the idea but when I I'm and I'm still not totally convinced but when I hear the constituent my constituents saying that this is a now I'm hearing 15 million 20 30 million Pie in the Sky idea and I I tend to to lean that way so that's you know me voicing my opinion for folks that have approached me on the idea that think hey water runs that way anyway whether we capture it or not it's you know it's our loss but but again uh it's just the 250 plus million dollars that we're in debt now and then you want to add another say 20 million and and the the the number just keeps on climbing so again that's that's what I'm voting on is folks that are telling me that it's

[2:44:44] too much money I'm about to call for the vote restate the motion please the motion was that we accept this as presented and allow the $111,000 to be sent to be spent for the feasibility study on what the project would cost us is that your motion Rodney I didn't make motion was that your motion was that your second Rodney yes okay it's time I'm going to ask everyone that is in favor of this to hold up your hand one two 2 3 4 let's see the Nays one two 3 motion passes let's move on then to number 12 which is consideration of amending the water rate schedule Mr Dixon okay y'all just about finished with me no we're not we we've just started you're not that lucky okay um I think this is Rodney's deal he want look at the drought level three ordinance and if I can make this thing go we'll see where we wind up this kind of where we're at on the um current water conservation drought contingency plan on the uh different um drought levels as you can see uh Dr level one and two is a tiered um usage fee associated with those usage uh drought level three currently is U it's just more than 10,000 gallons $6 per thousand for the single family accounts and more than 3,000 gallons uh it's $5 for apartment units and that's about the total number of apartments and 3,000 gallon usage anything over that and then all other users is 250,000 so Rodney that's kind of um

[2:46:48] where we're at um at the cursor this is a a little bigger of just the drought level three talking to Rodney he he felt like u a more tiered structure was in order for Drought level three and this is just uh something that I kind of put together on a tiered structure considering the possible potential of drought level three usage um these numbers are uh totally at y'all's discretion so I'll just open it up for that and when you go into drought level three first of all I'd like to say that you gave me this information the average household in city of St Angelo uses 6,000 gallons worth of water a month correct that for the last two years that has been correct okay account come come down a little bit it was eight last two years showed 6,000 gallons so really what we're talking about here on raising these fees is it won't hit the average person more so than what it was already going to be what who these fees are really aimed at is the people that are not cutting back on the use of water and if you look at the the old drought level three plan when you went over 10,000 gallons it was $6 per thousand gallon but there was never another increase so from these people and the people that I'm really wanting to Target are these people that are using 30,000 gallons there are actually people in this city right now that are using over 50,000 gallons of water a month 880,000 yeah over 50,000 it's it's crazy and that's for a residence that is not a business that's a residence and these people they don't care they're not trying to conserve water they're drinking all of our water and they're not drinking they're actually using it on their lawns our drinking water and so we're not going to have that water that's why when I went to Ricky and I talked to Ricky and he

[2:48:50] and I kind of came up or Ricky actually came up with this and showed it to me and I was like man this is a really good plan it hits them more so in their pocketbook which we need right now because we're losing so much water in the or so much money in the water department right now and it it if these people want to continue to use large amounts of water well they need to pay large amounts of money isn't that how it's scheduled now I mean 15 to 20,000 they pay $12 this is how it is now that's how it is now yeah that's if they're using the high users are paying more no they're well it's anybody over 10,000 gons yeah anything from 10,000 to Infinity is6 thou $6 per thousand gallons but you're just saying it's not painful enough it's not painful enough that's not even that that doesn't hurt that person at all and and what we're what I'm saying is we we want to hurt their pocketbook because it that I think that's the only way you're going to get to them about cutting these sprinklers backs on on these large yards and the large waste users so you want to penalize the few that are not doing it in the overall that is is restricting it's not penalizing them Charlotte it's right now the average household in in the city of St Angelo uses 6,000 gallons so it doesn't even take in effect till you hit 8,000 gallons and then it's still only $8 it jumps $2 per thousand gallon so up to 14 then it jumps to 12 and then once you go over 21,000 then it jumps to 20 if you go over 29,000 gallons of water first of all shame on you that's that's ridiculous I I can't even imagine how much water well I can I have a swimming pool and my swimming pool is smaller than that amount of water and that's how much you're dumping and wasting every month on your lawn and your use so this to me this is a common sense deal of of hitting them in the in the wallet and trying to stop them I mean I'd rather them they should be

[2:50:51] spending thousands of dollars on low you know drought tolerant plants and zeros scaping instead of spending instead of wasting your water and my water I can give you the downside to it though what is the down there is a downside Revenue back in the 50s when we had our drought we had whales out on the north end of town that were strong and the people on the north end of town that own those whales ration of the water out and they literally kept the city alive until it rained now we've got a situation on the North End where if someone's got a whale they're selling that water to the highest bidder and they're rolling those black TR those black trailers out there the black tanks every day you see them rolling by and everybody that's got a well is selling to the high bidder and all it's doing is killing that aquafer so when we when we go up this high on City water all they're going to do is go to the North End and they're going to take water and buy it out there and go spread on these yards and we've got tens of thousands of people on the north end of town that will have zero drinking water when their Wells go dry and they're dropping every day yeah but Dwayne these rates that we're talking about this is low you're not having you're not having water delivered to your house for this this amount it's going to be way higher than this they would still use I'm just saying it's all it's all tied together and when you kill a river when you kill a lake when you kill an aquifer everything is all tied together uh when we go to no watering I want something in the and if we're going to go to this when it comes to no watering in drought stage three I want no watering now I can't stop people from from using their own well water on their own yard but I want some terrific penalties for these people that buy this water and deplete an aquifer and spray it on their yard and I'm ready I'm ready to start pulling some meters to these people that are abusing our water system so I'm just saying I'm not I'm not opposed to this Rodney level three it's when they're supposed to not be watering anyways is what we're talking about what we're saying on the

[2:52:54] dry level three is they can't use City water to water so they're going and buying water elsewhere so they can continue to water and all they're doing is killing someone else's water and when that aquafer is gone there's going to be tens of thousands of people in this County that have no water to drink at all and no place to get it that's what I'm saying it's all tied together so I don't have a problem with this but if we're going to Institute this under drought level three we also must Institute some type of protection for the aquifers in this in this County that everyone depends upon we can't do that we can by making it a commercial activity to sell water you can use your pump you can use your well on your property but if you sell that water to anyone else that's commercial and we can regulate it there and we can put that's encroaching on somebody's property rights I mean it's not we encroach on people's property rights every day we don't let we don't let them work a commercial property out of a residential area and when when they're selling water and this water is being taken and and sprayed on a yard across town that's a commercial activity we can regulate it we must have some very stringent stringent regulations if we're going to go to this because all this is going to do is kill everybody else well I mean I respectfully disagree with you on that because when we go to stage level three the average person is going to I think is going to abide by these rules of not watering they're not going to use the city water I think that most people in town are going to be that way they are going to have to go to a third party water no matter what when we go to stage three they're buying from those people out there I mean they are they they'll have to I have a swimming pool myself when we go to stage three at the way the rules are written right now I will have to buy water from someone to bring in and put I don't even want to hear that and I you know I don't want to hear that I don't have drinking water so you can keep your swimming pool F my swimming pool I don't want it to collapse and there's a thousand other swimming pools in town right now that are the same way all the commercial pools that are in town will have to be filled by out out and it you know if I can't get it from the city limits I'll go purchase it from

[2:54:56] somebody that's outside of the city do I have any other comment on this cuz this is going nowhere quick we're just looking at it what I mean this is what we currently have if it goes to three that's we're just discussing it yeah what we're doing I'm consideration of amending oh yeah this is so it could be an action Adam I move that we accept the fees as written in front of us that's already in place no it's not this is the new the one it is go back and show what is now Ricky $6 per thousand this is the proposed rate fee schedule for Drought level three that is the existing rate schedule for Drought level three I I don't I don't want to hurt the smallest most frugal you W okay but if there's a difference in 250 and then if you flip that screen it goes to don't I see $4 $4 okay I personally don't believe in that I I think that the people that are using the least are doing are are can't afford more uh we've got some people that are are being very um conservation-minded and I don't think they should be penalized I think there's I think we really need to look at the users who are making the choice to buy more and spend more and not the people that are potentially on the fixed incomes right and the you know if we had the graph that we' had once before that showed the percentages of users that are in your 8 to 14 15 to 20 20 to 29 it gives a percentage we've had you've provided that to us before uh I don't know if Michael can whip it out right now but it shows that U the majority of the people are in your 8 to 14 uh if if you lower no they're not 6,000 it's show me the average household show me the charts and the facts and the

[2:57:01] figures I mean you can tell me one thing he can tell me another thing I I really he's told us six the average household in s city of St Angelo uses 6,000 gallons of water a month Ricky do you have those figures 2011 2012 average consump residential accounts the average consumption for 2011 2012 was 6,000 on the domestic water on 2012 and 2013 it was also 6,000 2010 2011 it was the average consumption was 8,000 gallons a month this was provided me from Mary over in water Bly Ricky that's the average overall I'm just asking the percentage of the population of the residents the percentage is who fits into the over the 30,000 gallons it's not the largeest percentage of the population it's not you can change this is totally up to these numbers are adjustable just were just tossed out there and they were very few Liz I would have no problem on my motion to change the all usage amount I think Liz and and let me just make sure I'm sorry M Grind staff this $4 amount down here is all other accounts the single res family residential accounts the apartment unit okay accounts this $4 does not affect the residential accounts okay so I'm sorry if I wasn't clear okay so the first residential account then is the $8 that's where that's correct and right now it's $5 six well this screen says five existing rate schedule for Drought level three it's $6 for everything over $10,000 are the apartment units okay but let's start with the apartment let's start with the apartment as an example my screen says existing rate fee schedule

[2:59:03] summary $5 for more than 3,000 for apartment unit what say I don't want the smallest user who is probably being being very cautious I don't want them I don't want their rate to go up I would raise the rate in those homes that are tending to use more water that's what I said so right however whatever that looks like on a schedule yeah that's I mean that's totally what I'm for I'm not trying to I don't want to hurt anybody that's using less than 6,000 gallons or even 8,000 gallons a month or less than 8,000 okay let me see if I'm following here you want to leave on the apartment unit accounts that number like it currently is so that would stay at that rate on the proposed schedule yeah it goes from $8 to $5 it stays at $5 okay is that what I'm understanding Miss gron okay so tell me in the proposed schedule what who falls into the $ four nobody that's that would be all the commercial accounts okay government commercial institutions anything that's not an apartment or single family residential so Liz would you I see what you're saying you're you're worried about or concerned about any of the residential users that use for example less than 8,000 they're they won't be affected correct so it starts at the 8,000 level 8,000 gallon level and goes up for the residential and then there's the apartment you want to keep that at $5 instead of bumping up to eight yes yes okay Rick so and then then change those

[3:01:08] that that go beyond that take eight to 14 which is currently six and take it to eight but I totally agree with Rodney what he's trying to do because I asked for a report sort of like this for those folks yeah there was some folks out there using 80,000 gallons a month res there were a couple using over a hundred yes so that's the ones that we and I hear you and that's that's I don't want to hurt anybody on the in fact I'm totally fine Liz changing the the apartment to five leaving it the way it is now do not change that at all until they hit to the 8,000 gallon Mark right if someone has the discretionary income to make that decision and we're still in the business of selling water yes are then let them make that decision for themselves exctly that's what we're doing okay although most of them shouldn't be doing that because when we go to stage three they're not supposed to water at all I agree with you but until that day comes and we're in the business of selling water and it otherwise it's going to evaporate and I'm not going to use that argument too many times but until that point let them make the decision as to how much they want to use on the but they'll pay for it all other users account did you want that to remain at 250 or are you good with the $4 if it's commercial all of the users being the commercial accounts that's everybody that's not a single family resal like our police stations and things like that govern use hospitals yeah I would prefer that it stay the same I I personally put that in form of a motion Rodney what I move that we accept the fees as presented except for leaving the apartment users at the uh what was it $5 at $5 and leaving the any other usage at 250 anybody want to second that well how about the the you're proposing the rest of it the same way that it was presented a while ago yes okay the single family

[3:03:11] 8,000 everything else stays the same okay second got a second vman so you want to leave the all usage amounts at 250 and not four okay 250 it doesn't change so it doesn't affect the baseball fields and the in the government buildings that we're talking you satisfied Mr grst but I think so I mean I think that most of our businesses are are doing their part best they can I don't think that's a lot of the Landscaping requirements so I I think I think I that well I can accept this and I'll put my battle off till stage three I have one more question yes sir done what where we at before we're hitting this how far out are we less than aren't we it looks like one of the meetings in June I'll be coming in talking about Dr level three okay this is got 30 well but it's going to rain this week so yeah and and I think and I won't be coming to talk about drought level three we need at least 4 in so we can get it Ivy and red it will rain this week do we have any comments from the from the audience on this before we take a vote I I have one last yes sir Ricky I was asked the other day how is there a formula that you use to for example you came up with 13 and a half months left of water left but some folks looking at nasworthy think we're down to six or eight months so it's all available water supplies that we currently use Ivy nasworthy twin butes OC when there's any water in it take out the evaporation and the demand and that's what's left okay and and and based upon that who who dictates when Ivy when we stop Ivy is that the level I mean is is that's correct can't we I've got a call tomorrow that I'll get an update but the last conference call we had with

[3:05:13] crmwd they said we will be finished with Ivy if there's not significant rainfall mid November that means the level of Ivy is gone and we can't they can't pump the rest of it anywhere okay and I'm I'm getting an update tomorrow I've seen some stuff that looks like maybe it's December now but if if somebody has uh inlets or whatever it's called to pump that are below ours they can continue to pump that's correct or okay all right good now I do want to point out that mid November that's when we're looking at the plant as far as the ion exchange plan being completed right then we'll have that 6 million gallons and we're we're currently pumping everything we can out of twin Ms into nasworthy try to cut out on the evaporation of that so if Ivy does run drrive we've got nasworthy and Hickory so I'm I'm glad we pulled the trigger on Hickory back in ' 08 Miss grind St did you have something else and I want to I want to commend Council for their action today too I mean some of y'all were on the council that that P the trigger on Hickory and that's commendable and and I think y'all are to be commended today for your actions thank you have a question Miss gr St I'm still trying um I I think that if we if we want to go again up with rates depending on what the weather patterns present in the future I still want to see an incentive plan for uh Zer escaping whether it's at you know in our residential areas or for commercial areas so there is a relief option um to these rates some some relief and I you know appreciated Mr Fleming bringing a constituent that had an idea but I'm completely convinced that if you let staff present again a variety of options that they could do so cities are incentivizing conservation techniques all over the state and we really need to be looking at that in association with this amen I agree with you completely

[3:07:16] the City of Tucson has a has a program in place right now Liz that's that's perfect example on following on incentivizing people to go to the landscape the zero escaping where they do that and that's one thing that's if we could get the staff to come kind of copy a lot of theirs it would be nice and you don't have to go to Arizona you could and look look at other cities in Texas that have done it there's there's a lot of there's a lot of good practices out there will will this come back to us in in view of ordinance I guess we're going to vote on it I guess that'll bring it back won't it well depends on the vote or do you want to vote Yes I mean we need to vote we need to do something so I guess depending vot will or will not come back the conservation ordinance it have to change it we'll have to change it so it will be a resolution two readings ordinance but there is a part in the drought level ordinance itself that it can be amended by Council for anything so we'll get it all worked out if we vote today it'll just take one more right charte you want to conclude this in the usage amount and your apartment unit accounts more than 3,000 gallons times the number of units occupied during the billing period who and how are you going to do that that's a good question uh and I I don't know I don't know if it's it should be units occupied or just units it's just a waste of space there if we don't have a method to calculate it it's just words on a piece of paper there's I'll look into it okay we've had discussion let's call for the vote the uh motion was again just to reiterate it is that we accept the drought level 3 plan which is on the board uh we leave the apartments at $5 we leave all other usage at 250 am I

[3:09:19] correct all in favor please say I I any oppose nay nay okay put a 61 on that one and in the future it would be helpful for me if you could put together on the slides what we are currently and what the proposal is it's just uh on the same slide okay thank you okay let's move on to number 14 which consideration of accepting the city of St Angelo's fiscal year 213 comprehend receive annual financial report keer and single audit as presented by the city's external auditor Tina benel and Mike bodford partner of Armstrong Backus and Company your own ma'am thank you mayor and councel our Auditors have recently completed our 2013 audit it has been reviewed by the audit committee but we bring it to you today for your examination and approval uh I have with us Mr Mike bodford he's a partner with Armstrong backness I'm sorry Armstrong bis who does our annual audit he's going to present the report to you and then if you have any questions I'll be available as well have you enjoyed your day with us thus far sir good enjoyed it uh first of all I'd like to thank y'all for letting us help y'all with the accounting and auditing function uh we really enjoy working with staff uh let you know right off the bat we have have had no difficulties working with staff uh uh everything uh is going to uh be a clean audit I guess you could say uh first thing I want to talk about is is the audit report itself and I think y'all have a copy of this in your packet but our report is on pages 9 through 11 and if you are familiar with looking at these in the past this report is going to look a little different this year because of the clarity standards the the auditing standards have changed so the audit report looks different there are subtitles talks about Management's responsibility basically says that these financial statements are your financial statements they're not ours the only

[3:11:22] thing we're doing is rendering an opinion on them and and our opinion is is here on page uh the second page of the of the opinion letter and what uh what the opinion States here is that uh you have an unmodified opinion which is a clean opinion on uh and that the financial statements are in accordance with General accepted accounting principles and uh then there's some more verbiage in here talking about other supplemental information but those are same things that have been presented in the past Management's discussion U some comparisons with budgetary financials so the opinion is a clean opinion uh want to talk about just a few of the numbers I'm not going to go into a lot of detail but uh the the government wide financial statements are on pages 23 24 and government wide you have a total N Net uh net position of $226 million that's your assets over your liabilities and for the current year this is the year ended September 30 2013 you had a a net change in position of a positive $13 million so that's all good information flipping over to the uh would would you please give me those two figures again please sir the uh total uh financial position 226 million that's assets net net net and the 13 million was a positive over the last however that was the increase over the year okay yeah and then on the next two pages we get into the individual fund statements breaking it out by your your general fund and uh some of your uh water fund Etc the general fund on page 25 you have a

[3:13:26] uh a total fund balance of $21 million in the general fund and of that nearly all of it is unassigned so it's available to be used uh the uh the net change in the fund balance for the general fund for the year was 6.6 million positive the water fund flipping over to page 29 through 30 I have to back off on this because these numbers keep getting smaller uh the net position in the water fund is $97 million and the net change for the current year was 7.7 million and you can see the other funds I'm not going to go through all the others but those those are some the the highlights uh starting on page 34 you've got your footnotes to the financial statements and these are similar to what you've been accustomed to seeing in Prior years there is one thing that I would point out uh that's going to be a change um that you need to be aware of and it's the last footnote on page 71 talking about new accounting standards new accounting pronouncements uh statement number 60 8 accounting for pensions this is going to be effective for your financial statements for the fiscal year ended September 30 2015 not the current year we're in but the next year and the the actual effect has not actually been determined yet and that's what the footnote describes that the we don't know the exact number yet but we'll be looking at that and and your staff will be looking at that but it's going to be a fairly substantial liability that will be required to be recorded on your financials we're talking about probably in the neighborhood of 60 to 70 million uh and that's for the unfunded liability of your pensions because of the change in

[3:15:29] the accounting standards they're making governments record that liability so that's going to be a big change that's going to affect you in 2015 um there's a separate Financial or separate audit packet for the single audit report that deals with federal financial assistance for the current for this year y'all had $4.6 million in federal funds uh with that uh single audit packet we're required to do some testing of compliance uh with with uh laws that affect those Federal uh Awards and also compliance with uh our our u u testing of of internal controls over those uh funds there were no findings of material weaknesses in internal controls so everything seemed to be in appropriate care there and there were no findings or question costs dealing with the federal funds so again that's a a clean report that's as good as you can get on that uh and also there's a separate report dealing with your u u the the uh passenger facility charged at the airport and we did testing on that and everything was clean on that uh no findings on that either so in general everything was clean I guess you could say and uh are you open for any questions that you might have or or the Tina I can answer for you I think that's what we wanted to hear any Council questions I did have one when you talked about the water fund you said $7 million you didn't say positive or positive positive positive that's what I wanted to hear yeah are you happy with it Tina yes sir and as I said the audit committee audit committee did review this report as well they uh they approved it and they recommend that council do the same if it's all right we need some we need a

[3:17:32] motion some to approve as submitted I do have a motion from charotte to approve anybody want to Second it I'll second that do we have further Council comment on this yes go ahead I would like to add the U think that our internal auditor is working very well long overdue and needed uh could use an assistant it's a a very important part very important function of the city I agree okay do I have anything and comments from the public on this before I call for the vote motion has been made that we accept the fiscal report comprehensive an annual financial report it has been seconded all in favor please say I any oppose Nay put a 70 on that one thank you very much sir we enjoyed the day with you uh discussion and possible action related to Hotel occupancy tax dispersement allocated to the S Angelo cultural Affairs Council seak for eligible activities you going to start this off far buddy yes sir Michael DNE assistant city manager uh over the last few years uh as Hotel occupancy started to rise and the revenues that that flow to the city from that activity started to rise a sentiment developed a consensus developed on Council that we needed to uh uh not just allow those revenues to be distributed in that prata fashion that was being used at that time that that that growing Revenue needed to be managed in order to uh best obtain uh that value to stretch those dollars as as far as possible not just let them flow unregulated into budgets and so Council started uh developing this mindset that we needed to consider fixed amounts for contracts for subrecipients of occupancy tax um and directed staff to begin that process that first occurred with the convention and visitors bureau where uh

[3:19:36] we discussed the issues with them and they made a proposal based on a proposed budget and we executed a contract based on that proposed budget the next step in that uh as directed by Council was to begin considering the Arts segment of the occupancy tax for the same treatment and so we've had discussions with sacak uh St Angelo cultural Affairs Council and uh discuss the possibilities and what staff is seeking today is direction from Council on how much to make that allocation right now we're under the impression that the consensus from Council is still to go with a fixed fee rather than a percentage of overall Collections and uh um we would like direction from Council on how much that should be and we're prepared with a little bit of history and I believe uh some cultural Affairs Council uh representatives are available to discuss what they believe their needs are and uh so again what we're seeking is direction for that amount and then we'll uh prepare the necessary paperwork contract Amendment uh or none if that's the direction of council uh and follow up with appropriate Council action at that time thank you Michael I guess Daniel you have a presentation sir slide yes sir come ahead sir help me drive M where am I looking that's the don't let him do oh open work okay I'm Daniel Mak the executive director uh for the cultural Affairs

[3:21:38] Council uh as many of you know um this is sort of my parting gift from the city of St Angelo uh this is in fact my last week uh as director uh I want to point out Cynthia Lackey who I know some of you have met she'll be replacing me uh very shortly so uh this is your last chance to have your way with me uh up here before Council uh I I appreciate your endurance today and I look forward to presenting uh to you um what I hope to do in this this uh as brief as I can make it presentation is uh just to review just a little bit the law the hot fund um this isn't an unregulated fund this is a dedicated tax uh that does have to follow state law um I've had lots of phone calls over the past 5 to 7 years about uh what it is we can do with this and so I'd like to review that quickly uh then very briefly just show you what our current investment is uh review as Mike said sort of the The Five-Year Trend as as what we've been doing with the fund um I'm going to give you some details of each organization uh it's not going to be in the form of a formal report but it should be enough to sort of satisfy and I can answer other questions as we get into those details and then we do have a recommendation uh from the arts groups uh their respective boards and their membership to to present before you so very quickly uh the hot fund uh as you as you should know uh two primary requirements uh first that expenditures must benefit hotels and tourism and second that those expenditures satisfy one of nine categories um this is a great tax because it's a tax paid by none of your constituents it's paid by people who don't live here um uh that said we do appreciate your uh regulating I guess or are being good stewards of that funding the nine categories are Visitors Center convention centers uh this is a facility where 51% or greater of entrance are tourists convention delegates these are people who hand out

[3:23:41] name tags and packets and sign in registrants to a convention we don't have a lot of events that are that are large enough to to employ uh delegates of that nature uh we do have some advertising and promotions This is 40 to 70% typically uh State average on this fund has to be 17th by law we're safely within that number promotion of the Arts up to 15% uh what we are currently allocating in the city of St Angelo and have been for many many years is 5% thank you uh I believe over the past eight or 9 years it's been 5% I can't there was a change from 3% to 5% I I can find out when that occurred uh number five historical preservation restoration programming and number six funding of certain expenses of specific sporting events in counties less than a million uh these are typically promotional expenses uh Andor kind of Cornerstone type funding uh for specific attracting specific sporting events into uh the municipality uh facility upgrades uh for supporting event venues in certain municipalities to my knowledge stt Angelo is not currently in this category there was an exception made in the statute for the city of Roundrock uh with a pretty extensive reporting and clawback Claws as relates to the Round Rock Express baseball stadium um number eight shuttle service between tourist destinations and number nine is way finding signage to and from destinations frequented by tourists this slide gives you uh sort of a current based on 2013 uh where the fund goes uh these are fixed amounts for the convention visitors bureau 795,000 uh Civic events 78,000 uh the Arts are listed here 13745 that is uh on a percentage basis that is at 5% uh the Arts are the only nonfixed uh Fund in here as Mike as Mike alluded to um this figure this 137,953 the figure that the city has um and this

[3:25:49] is based on the way uh we distribute the funds in a grant program we have aligned that grant program to distribute uh September 30 in order to align with the city's fiscal year um we do this so that we can empty the fund balance out every fiscal year and kind of have a clean break this this number does represent a full 12 months of deposits uh from the hotel occupancy tax to the cultural Affairs Council uh the reason there's a slight difference I believe it's about $6,000 difference or so is because the city takes in money in October for September so we're our grant program is actually falls about a month behind uh the city's calculations uh Texas Bank Sports Complex uh 50,000 uh total hot collected uh in 2013 receipts of 2, 8619 42 uh that's a figure I got from from both Civic events and from the uh the city finance department uh Surplus realized in 2013 uh looks to be 1,171 537 um this next slide shows uh sort of some special uh events that have that have occurred uh some special requests for for the for the on the based on the surplus of the fund and you see those listed there you've all approved most of these so I believe uh you should all be aware of them um the way finding I will say that's a proposed amount there's been discussion on the wayf finding going back to the River Project as to how we could pay for and and improve our signage around the city and as Pamela from the CVB alluded to earlier that's still a work in progress and a study in progress uh these I hope are are useful this these are the fixed amounts sort of the annual um groups that we're contributing to and and you can show the Arts uh the Arts are down there on the

[3:27:53] the bottom gray section next to the orange there and then again this slide uh I think is useful to place the Arts funding relative to those special projects that were realized with the Surplus uh the Arts being the darker brown portion at the top of the screen uh some other discussion that's occurred over the hot fund is um this notion that in order to be good stewards of this fund uh the recognition that we are in a boom um uh in our meetings with the mayor we discussed that the Boom is defined by the bust that comes afterward and that's uh sort of the inevitable uh cost of living in in fossil fuel Rich West Texas um I am not uh lawyer I'm not a litigator on behalf of the Lodging Association um uh there is some gray area here in the rainy day fund um I can say uh based on my research that when this originally came to the state legislature there was uh obviously initial hesitation with the the hotel association becoming uh the good Sheriff of Nottingham on behalf of all of these municipalities where they resided and crucial to that agreement became this idea that okay if going to collect it for you it has to be reinvested on a yearly basis that that has to be part of the agreement the current ruling uh and I believe this is a Texas State Attorney General ruling uh leaves you plenty of vaguery uh there it says it it can't be held for an unreasonable amount of time um what is that um that will leave that to your your minds and your discretion um effective marketing is consistent uh again this idea that it should be reinvested on an annual basis um here in St Angelo um one of the uh one of the blessings I guess we have is that uh our current product um has for years exceeded our

[3:29:59] ability to Market that product in the Arts um I feel like we've done an excellent job over the past uh 30 years that I've witnessed um really making a name and a reputation an identity for ourselves as an artistic and cultural OAS bis uh where we are um with relatively little money compared to other cities um we're very blessed to have some some very generous patrons over the years that has kept that going um but what you can see in cities um and it's not just in the Arts but also in in convention and visitors bureau uh cities that cut back or states that cut back on that funding it's not it's not like the water spigot where you just turn it back on and you're right back where you were marketing is it's a cumulative thing um it's something that uh you know sort of a rising tide raises All Ships uh it's something that you you continue to invest in continue to invest in and you get exponential Returns on that if you stop it or cut it it it doesn't just come back you can't uh you know raise the marketing fund the next year and be in the same place you were uh before it was cut uh as far as the Arts investment a little bit of history and background for those of you who may not know um the cultural Affairs Council began in 1978 um in the early 80s it became a department of the city of St Angelo very briefly um broke back out um it it seemed to benefit uh the most both the city and the cultural Affairs Council if they could operate independently of each other and since 1989 uh the cultural Affairs Council has been operating this annual Grant uh on behalf of uh the city of St Angelo um the cultural Affairs uh does not retain any of the hot Revenue uh this is a free program that we offer uh to the city of St Angelo to the community um there's no administrative fees held back uh for this grant um I can say it does occupy a

[3:32:04] couple of months uh of the year for cultural Affairs each year we fill a file box with reports and papers and um every year that we do this uh cultural Affairs does do however leverage the money we receive in hotel occupancy tax to apply for state level grants uh for the Texas commission on the Arts um when we worked with the National Endowment of the Arts through the library for the big read program things of this nature occasionally you will see the hot Revenue awarded to cultural Affairs included on those Grant uh applications uh all funds distributed uh are as I said on an annual basis uh we do align with the city's fiscal year we do uh give out an entire 12 months of receipts every time we do the program um we don't hold anything over uh the application review panel process uh consists of a community review panel of 7 to9 people um it sort of mirrors what state level agencies do uh as far as Arts applications are concerned um there is an orientation session with those who review the the packet uh then we meet again for a second meeting and a scoring meeting uh the scores are are uh I didn't bring the actual language if you go to our website St Angelo arts.com you can review the criteria the application I didn't want to include that in your packets because it it didn't seem like it was the process that we were interested in reviewing as much as the amount um but I'm certainly happy to provide those for you uh the grants are well publicized uh we have two types of Grant uh that we that we offer one is a core support and so these are uh nonprofit organizations in existence for at least a year within the city limits of St Angelo whose primary mission is Arts related uh so this is your Museum of Fine Arts your Symphony your ballet your Civic Theater uh in addition to those we have uh project support project support is meant to be a

[3:34:08] more um Grassroots uh dedicated type of a grant uh it also has to be a nonprofit organization uh headquartered stationed housed uh officed in the city limits of St Angelo uh these include the ucra the Girl Scouts Boy Scouts um some of the United Way Type organizations uh that happen to be carrying out an artistic type of program even though that's not their primary Mission if that's clear enough uh for everyone and I apologize for the slide for those of you in the audience uh are trying to trying to watch on TV this was as large as I could as I could make these numbers uh but this this is where we're at over the past 5 years um you can see that the fund has gone up um it was uh it was a gradual thing it was not you know a totally exponential type type of growth uh from 09 to 13 and so you see the core support uh listed on the top and then project suppor is down on the bottom and again we we granted out uh last last year 137,000 205 and you'll see we had a we were able to add $10,000 to that and have 147,50 total granted uh so these organizations who receive the money uh it's a it's a very efficient uh process I believe it's a very efficient investment a return on investment is good uh the hot funds invested go directly to promotional expenses lodging expenses guest artist fees and travel expense uh on our Grant application uh tourism is is the highest awarded uh in all the qual all the the data that we use to to come to a score there are four or five different areas and tourism is the top of the list it's weighted the highest of all of all those uh statistics um and so you have the the the the funds that they receive these

[3:36:11] are not funds that that pay their salaries or or brick and mortar or M or day-to-day operations of the organization uh there these are not a a subsidy type investment that are that are propping up the existence of any of these organizations uh it's it's pretty carefully pinpointed and directed that these these be things that go directly into marketing and furthering the reach of of the qualitative programming that we're providing to the area um and as I said uh they're not subsidies it is an important Revenue Source uh it's less than 7% of the budgets but you'll see some more detail of their budgets in coming slides um in addition to uh the application process I think a key component uh too is that all these entities have to match whatever they request from cultural Affairs dollar for dooll so for every dollar you know in other words there's no singular event that's taking place no concert no exhibit that is happening only with Hotel Revenue Vue funds um there there's buyin from those organizations from those nonprofits from their patrons as well uh to make make these events happen uh so now I want to walk you real quickly just so you get kind of a glimpse of of what we're talking about with these organizations uh this is the stt Angelo Museum of Fine Arts um Howard Taylor is out of town today um and so you'll have to listen to me talk instead of him and I know you're all concerned about that um Howard is great mentor to me but he can be verbose um our museum is is quite an asset um I do this job today part of the reason um I moved back to St Angelo with my family to raise my kids is there's a picture of me in about 83 and I'm in the top of the Quarter Master building at Fort koncho sitting on Howard Taylor's lap painting a dump truck and a and a very young uh more harried Bob blueart is standing right

[3:38:15] next to us and so um it's really an honor for me to stand here and Advocate on behalf of these guys um our Museum of course is recognized nationally Mr Taylor went to the White House to receive the national museum service award um over 10,000 tourist visitations out of out of 65,000 visits a year uh to our Museum which is a great statistic uh based on zip codes track through their uh registration book there in the museum uh over 30 outof town bus tours each year this is an average all these numbers I'm throwing at you are are Ann on an annual basis uh based over the LA an average of The Last 5 Years for the most part um 3,000 room nights uh 400 rooms blocked directly with local hotels by the museum uh the museum currently has over 300 members uh paying uh dues paying members living over 200 miles from St Angelo uh all of those have at least a minimum of one annual visit uh here to s Angelo uh as far as direct investment uh in the in the uh areas we were talking about uh $40,000 uh goes directly to marketing uh out of their budget each year $3,000 is uh local lodging paid for directly by the museum this is for their special uh guest artists jurors or other presentations they have going on um a couple of new developments that have taken place since the uh current trend of of the Hotel occupancy tax has been in place uh SFA has just become the headquarters for the center for advancement and study of Early Texas Art this will be a significant uh Regional uh development for St Angelo uh this will be something that um students of art will be traveling from Austin San Antonio other Metro areas uh Howard the museum basically won out the contract to become the headquarters for this um and the the museum has also recently acquired uh building near Fort cono I believe it was the old St Angelo

[3:40:18] standard times Warehouse where they stored paper goods and other things before they before the uh printing was outsourced they spent $200,000 on this building uh and it's going to serve as a regional uh Heritage Center uh which is something we've that has been long talked about in in conjunction with Fort Concho uh but I think will be another uh at least on a regional basis a great tourism draw as well next slide on the museum um when you're talking about drawing in tourists from from outside areas uh part of what you look at is is the national recognition um qualitatively how do we Stack Up do we have nationally known artists and jurors taking part in in presentations uh and fortunately we do uh we just celebrated uh the national Ceramics competition again it's an event that takes place every other year uh the salmon sculpture exhibit uh since the hot money has gone up the salmon sculpture exhibit and the new plane Air painting uh exhibit those are two new things that have been added partially because they have a little more marketing money to to put on some other events and to spread the word about these other events um the plan air painting uh exhibit was one that Pamela mentioned in the CVB um I can give you some background on that uh Barbara Barnhart R uh came to me about two years ago with the idea of doing this um it sounded a little more than the cultural Affairs could could uh handle in our budget I took her over to the museum um and we are going to use some hot funding it was in there at Grant application this past year to help promote this event um this event will be uh if not the definitely one of the top two uh plan a which plan air painting is outdoor painting uh we have excellent light here in West Texas that artists absolutely love they had a couple of sort of exploratory events uh through the stt Angelo Art Club and the Museum of Fine Art and brought in some nationally known and internationally known artists and jurors to to look at it and uh they're very

[3:42:21] excited about it this is going to be one of the top two events not on the coasts so you're looking at the number three or four plane a event in in the United States so it'll be a great draw uh the Museum of Fine Arts and the Arts community in general uh were instrumental in the creation of our new Cultural District designation which took place a few years back I think a year and a half ago possibly uh the Museum of fun arts uh just as they participated in rudat years ago uh always on The Cutting Edge of Community Development and Community planning uh giving people a place to go uh to help shape the ideas and priorities that go into to upholding the Legacy that we have here in town and keeping it going the museum invested over $20,000 of its own money in the in the uh seeking of that District designation um in addition to that they have lots of free facil usage as you know there are hundreds of events uh it seems at the Museum each year and most of these anytime you see an organization holding an event there it's it's a free to public in kind facility uh use fee uh in my travels I've never seen a museum that has more free to public events than ours does and I think that's something we can brag about the St Angelo Symphony um is 65 years uh strong now and um I think it's wonderful that there are lots of big cities that have lost Symphonies and and we are uh certainly not a small City but we are a city who's who's kept ours and it's qualitatively just getting better and better uh Maestro Guzman who's uh leading our symphony right now is internationally known uh he's a wonderful guy and has brought uh wonderful reputation to our city and our symphony programming uh again these are annual numbers direct investment by the symphony uh they spend over $25,000 directly on marketing I mean on local lodging each year so of the $38,000 in hotel occupancy tax revenue they received $25,000 of it goes immediately back to the local hotels to

[3:44:24] house the musicians if you're not aware a lot of the musicians in our symphony our St Angelo Symphony are from Dallas and San Antonio and Houston and Midland and other places so uh $177,000 is their marketing budget uh for state and regional marketing over the past five seasons 1 15,7 69 in travel expenses alone for guest artists past five seasons over $23,000 invested in internationally known artist fees um this is significant because again when you're looking at generating tourism and the you know development of the reputation and the quality and identity of your city bringing in these internationally known guest artists that they have two or three or four of each year uh is really something that does put you on the map of not just people in uh Robert Lee or Sonora or but but in Dallas in in Chicago Illinois in New York um these are these are internationally known uh people uh the average cost for one concert uh this floored me I uh I'm a folk musician I need to go into a different genre I believe but $45,000 is what it costs uh every time they put on one of these uh concerts and again that's an average some of them are $65,000 um the annual marketing uh average uh I have 177,000 on State and Regional up here uh but I took their total marketing budget over the past three seasons and the total average is 2,375 on marketing for the symphony over 30,000 people attending the July Pops concert I know most of you are are there each year uh it's a wonderful event it's Texas fourth largest Independence Day celebration and it is free to public um in in the study of 2012 hot Revenue uh July showed a 99.4% increase over June uh this Pops concert represents one of the the most significant major events uh going on in the month of July so surely there was some correlation there um doesn't

[3:46:28] particularly relate directly to hot fund but you can't talk about the Arts without some quality of life type thing so you'll just have to bear with me uh education uh over 60 musicians are paid each year for school visitations across seisd uh and I participated in that program and they had me going to Santa Ana and other places and so it's not just here in St Angelo there is some Outreach there and that Outreach does directly relate to Bringing uh the parents of those kids in those outlying areas into town for a Symphony concert uh over 1500 students enjoy the youth concert each year uh free of charge uh and this is a Texas approved uh curriculum that that goes on uh in the classrooms leading up to the youth concert uh and they have uh the addition of a new music and wellness program uh for musicians and hospital and nursing home assisted living um I think this is an excellent program considering the number of retirees we have uh flocking to St Angelo a Civic Theater uh you all know it's the oldest Civic Theater uh in the state of Texas established November 21st 1885 um they have an average again this average is over the past three seasons of $118,000 on marketing expenses 28,000 in the past three seasons have enjoyed shows at the Civic it's a 23 seat room uh so that's pretty good uh pretty good fill rate A reduced rate facility again like our Museum of Fine Arts uh the Civic Theater is not the only one who enjoys their stage other people get to use it as well St Angelo Civic ballet they just celebrated their 30th uh anniversary served over 44,000 in the past three seasons um all 44,000 of those are not tuition assistants that's kind of a misleading sentence but I do want to point out that that tuition assistance is a is a major major investment that they make in our community they've never turned a child away from the Civic valet

[3:48:31] because they were unable to pay uh for the services uh and this is not just um Ring Around the Rosie these These are fantastic professionally trained dancers uh we have nationally recognized guest and choreographers on the average of 25 per season and again that's something that puts our ballet on the map uh when you're looking at them versus Austin versus Houston versus Dallas um there's not another city our size in the state of Texas with a more competitive program uh I want to recognize artistic director Megan Bridgeman uh back there she's done uh she's now now that I'm leaving um even before me she's the longest 10e executive director you have other than Howard Taylor and Howard doesn't really count so he's not here so I can say that she's done a wonderful job our dancers uh here are competing uh against people from all over the world uh for highly competitive programs in the major metropolitan areas uh many of them are going off to study dance professionally uh in their Collegiate careers uh atomies around the country um these are programs where you have maybe a thousand girls trying to get a spot um and it's just fantastic to see what she's done over the past 10 years uh again like the Symphonies uh accredited programming with use concert the Civic ballet entered into a partnership with the saisd uh dancers who spend uh more than 5 hours per week in the studio um receive their physical education credit uh when they went went in on this partnership they did not make it exclusive to Civic ballet so you have other uh even some for-profit dance studios able to have the same partnership with our school district um a lot has been made of well just because we have more money you know doesn't mean you should just automatically get it I completely agree um question being okay we're giving you more money what what are you getting in return um I picked the ballet to just kind of do U an immediate comparison

[3:50:34] over the past couple of years and I think it's it's pretty marked um this is their marketing budget up top you can see year to year it growing um the ballet Uh current budget is $457 they're looking at over a half million doll budget next year which is a big milestone um and even more crucial than that if you look down uh go back even farther and look what's happened uh since 2005 so you go back about the last decade these are amazing numbers uh and what's going on out at the ballet um again more marketing Revenue means you can afford to put on more events so what I have to offer you uh today is uh a proposal on behalf of these organizations supported by cultural Affairs the Museum of Fine Arts the symphony the Civic Theater the ballet their respective boards and members um there is precedent in the language of the statute for a percentage based system um once our boom economy is stabilized a percentage based system will have to be returned to uh there's a reason uh the vast majority of the Cities uh within the state of Texas operate on a percentage based system uh once the Boom is over uh flat amounts fixed amounts won't be feasible because you won't know exactly what's going to be in there and you can't you can't over budget yourself in that way and that's why the percentage system has been arrived at um I don't like comparing us to any other City because uh I know we're the best best place uh certainly out here to live um what are the other cities doing if you look at the demographic comparisons over Tyler abene Amarillo uh these types not all in the boom area uh but you look around uh on average it's about 12% of hot fund are what other cities comparably sized are are spending in promotion and support of

[3:52:36] the Arts now not all cities do this completely with the hot fund a lot of cities will will give a certain percentage out of hot fund and a certain percentage out of a general fund or something like that um but if you look at the overall total dollars in support of the Arts it comes out to about 12% of their hot fund uh revenue for a given year um another thing I want to caution council with um the the arts groups operate a little differently than than say a specific Department like Civic events or convention and visitors bureau um because this is a grant program it's not just one organization or these four organizations it's it's often 9 to 12 13 different organizations uh that are receiving uh some funding through the Arts um secondly the idea again that you can change it on a year-to-year basis or come in and and do it one year at a time this becomes a little bit detrimental when you start budgeting and planning out Seasons uh when you're when you're looking at a symphony Pops concert They're bringing back cir to Symphony again this April it was incredibly popular show incredibly well attended by lots of tourists last time it was here um it takes three four sometimes 5 years to get those events planned um you can't bring an event like that into town without some sort of idea of what your your budget for marketing is going to be it doesn't matter if Elvis is playing the Coliseum if you don't have any money to go tell people hey Elvis is playing in the Coliseum um so I would I would just caution that um I think some sort of um multi-year contract is in order regardless of what um process you put in place to determine the fund um all of that said uh we would ask the council uh again on behalf of these organizations to honor the current contract of 5% which is expiring September the 30th of this year um we are already in late May

[3:54:42] um the organizations have already begun writing their Grant applications they've certainly already booked this next season of performers and uh set in place their their marketing budgets based on the current Trend not an exact amount not we got this last year so we expect to get $5,000 more than next year but based on the current Trend uh of growth that we've been seeing um this investment uh again ensures that our reputation as an artistically blessed and vibrant City continues um my personal opinion uh sitting out the oil boom uh for our arts and culture uh sitting out those surpluses would be a a very bad mistake uh I think we all know what the reputations are um for oil towns boom towns they're not typically places that uh people think that's my my top tourist spot um but we want to fight that as best we can um we are not Midland we are not Odessa Odessa spent $800,000 supporting the Arts last year and built a $99 million Performing Arts Center but I'm here to tell you our $4 million investment in Performing Arts is going to be every bit the return on investment theirs is uh given the given the money and again I think we've done remarkable things uh with less money than a lot of cities uh I can say as the executive director of one of these organizations you guys just think you pinch pennies uh over there we are in the business of in ing pennies uh on steroids um so we do the best we can for you we think we do provide um as a professional musician I can say that um the idea that oh it's happening in St Angelo so it must not be of quality that you would find elsewhere is completely false um again I think we do more uh qualitatively than lots of cities our size um I did not include in here any of the overall Financial impacts uh for for sales tax and property tax and all those

[3:56:48] things that the Arts contribute to people go out to a symphony they tend to stop and have dinner uh on the way or on the way home um you're looking at uh for for a fairly modest amount of money a support and marketing of literally hundreds of events across just the four core Arts organizations um I guess in closing uh I do want to make a quality of life plea as well um the past 5 years I've spent in the cultural Affairs Council Office I can say we do act as uh an umbrella organization we're very much like a visitor center or a chamber of commerce um when someone is newly deployed or assigned Goodfellow Air Force Base uh if they don't call their spouse calls and asks what's going on where can my kids go what can we do um one of the first stops that the CEOs of your local hospitals make when they have a new Young doctor coming to visit St Angelo is is our office um when you look at retention of students and retention of a young professional Workforce um having gone through the leadership program uh through the Chamber of Commerce I can say that group of people is definitely a group of people we want to keep here in town and that the Arts definitely play a significant role in making that happen um so I'll thank you for your service and uh now answer any questions uh I'm sure there are things I've left out that I need to include uh please let me know what those are I know I have uh friends back here who who' like to say a few words if you find that necessary well I have one question yes sir I kind of I think it was around slide six I got lost could could you start over at slide six no just start over at the beginning Daniel we've been here long so we don't miss it all right uh this is slide six um no that's fine that's you you you can rival Howard Taylor you did really

[3:58:52] well thank you yeah I Howard is not the only but please don't tell anybody but you've been sitting here all day long so I allowed you 40 minutes not quite how much longer would you like me to stand would there other questions council is there is there questions on this we knew this was coming yeah let's start down here let's go ahead and break in Eliz but let's start with you give me give us your opinion we'll go down the go down the line well I I guess the question is can they hold at the 5% given what's happening in the community and I would certainly think that the arts groups and other eligible entities should share in the in the economy uh so I certainly would be in support of that I I think what you do is incredibly important to the community um I know Daniel on a personal and professional basis and I think that this is you know really education you can call it experiential artistic whatever but I think it's very important and so I think that staying with a percentage that they can budget for and plan for accordingly is is very important done I have no problem with the 5% I uh I do hope that exactly what you said Cynthia and the rest of you realize we're on the upswing it's not going to be like this forever so you know don't get accustomed to to making that that big house payment all of a sudden the money's not there for the payment kind of deal so uh but 5% I think is fine Charlotte well I guess word leaked out that uh they in this up time with the oil boom that there would be increased sales tax and everybody wants an increased slot of the pie but when you really stop and think about the increased monies right now and I don't agree with the 5% that's the reason we discussed and talked about a fixed amount not to exceed so that

[4:00:56] organizations and groups didn't get used to a few short years of more money and then not having anything is when you look at uh Fort Concho when you look at the river stage when you look at other areas including the sports complex the tennis facilities X number of dollars was spent and that's been it we've been holding and we have been having to absorb the maintenance of these facilities and that was the reasons that we uh previous Council had thought that uh we should limit what goes out in hot to help U put more money into our tourist Revenue items that we've not been able to do because of lack of funds and that was the whole reasoning behind it and I still agree with it uh I would rather uh you be comfortable I was noticing in your last uh increase you jumped nearly in your budget 40 something, $46,000 in one year which uh is huge and gosh it'd be nice if you could go 146 you know this year but then the following year you only may get 26 and where is the balance in there and that was the reasons for us discussing to do away with the percentage and do a fixed amount based on and I still like that idea because it gives a cushion in there not to be held forever but to do some improvements you know the fort needs so much more than we had money in the budget for this year so much more in the way of improvements the I agree the sports complex uh has done it just exactly what it was done nothing more other than maintaining and lots of areas need to be uh improved and that money spent there so that's just my opinion on the hot money not that y'all haven't done a great job you do a fantastic job and I want you to get everything you can but I've got to set up here and try to think where we're going to be next year and the year after and the year after Johnny can I no go ahead I think uh and again the hope will be um the way this

[4:03:02] trend went up hopefully it will go down more gently maybe than it came up um so I think we'll naturally be faced with the the growing pains and the budgeting process proc of a decline as well um I would hope that would be gradual to some degree John Daniel I too am a uh I'm an advocate for you guys and I think you bring a lot of uh positive uh attitude towards a city you know as a whole whether it's the museum or whatever organization out there that plays a part in the bigger picture I have no problem with the 5% uh knowing maybe next year we're it won't be 5% but I think we are uh seeing an influx of a little bit of money coming in to keep you guys afloat and again I applaud everything that goes on I love the Arts I've always loved the Arts and uh most of this stuff is in my district anyway and not just because it's there but I think again you guys uh are a shot in the arm for the community as a whole and uh again you you guys represent the city well you try to bring in those those folks from the outer areas to come in and and and buy gas and and buy and Lodge here and eat the restaurant so uh more power to you guys so again just I'll keep it short that I have no problem with uh staying on with a 5% for you guys Marty what what does m s how does m sell feel about this I don't know I think she fell asleep uh I I have no problem with the 5% I I do think you'll find that that will not be a gradual decline I think I think it's going to be very abrupt when it when it stops and just remember 5% cuz when it stops don't don't come show us 80 slides telling us why you got to have 8% okay other than that I'm I'm good with the 5%

[4:05:06] Mr Rodney what's the term on this uh the the tradition has been two to five years uh the current contract ending in September is a 2-year contract is that what we're asking for this time just Direction because no one no one's even asked for that yet so I I would like to know what the term is going to be uh and again I would just say um a multi-year contract is definitely uh would soften things um if you can keep it to three years uh that makes it easier to budget these large scale uh shows coming in I I I also I'm in favor of the 5% and you know I think that when it does come down and if it does come down quickly well then you're stuck with it you know and if I'm still here I'm not going to vote you more than 5% I think you guys can live by by the 5% I think you can get by with it you know in good times it's going to be good and bad times it'll be bad but I I think I would like a three-year commitment on that well I do not like 5% and for a budget to go from 2012 from 94,000 to 213 to 135,000 that kind of a jump that that to me is that that's excessive and no one there's not a budget in this city that works with that type of an increase uh I I think it's unreasonable and I also feel that when the bus comes it's going to come fast and hard and I think you're going to be tickled to death to get 74,000 or 69,000 I think you're going to be glad to drop back four or five years if we can keep this keep this boom as it goes and set you at a budget that you can live with a budget that you come up with we need x amount of money to work and then we keep the excess ex the excess then when the bus does come we've got something we've got something in reserve that we can pick up the slack with but if we if you take every dime that you've got coming every year then in two or three years when the bus comes

[4:07:09] there's not going to be any excess money and when you hit the bottom you're going to hit the bottom and I I don't think that's good for the economy I don't think that's good for the citizens and I don't think it's good for y'all I think if you would give us a figure that you need to operate on here is a reasonable figure at the end of the year if you can't work on it you come back and say that wasn't enough or that was too much we can adjust it the City Works on an annual budget we figure our budget every year and our budget is much much larger than yours so it is not unreasonable for the city to work on an annual budget I don't feel it's unreasonable ask ask you to work on an annual budget but if you'd come in and say here's what we need to operate you know i' I'd be glad to probably would be glad dependent upon the figure to allow that but just come in to say giving you 40 to 50,000 extra each year to me that that is not that's not reasonable for our citizens and I don't think it's fair to our citizens and I'm not in favor of 5% I'm in favor of giving you an amount that you need and then adjusting it annually as need as need requires so there's mine mayor may I make a motion you may I'd like to make a motion to approve the 5% uh for a a three-year term I'll second that we do have a motion that the 5% be continued that' be set up on three years do I have further Council comment on this yes go ahead I was taking it back also when you said the abos average concert cost 45 I thought those things were free but evidently there's an expense to it I thought it was all volunteer I thought all the musicians all the Dorothy d that went out there and played for free I didn't know it was a and then also uh on one of the slides and you don't have to go back and and look for it but you talked about a lodging expense and a travel expense to who lodging for what travel to who what uh as relates to the symphony um lodging

[4:09:12] expense uh primarily related to the Musicians uh that $25,000 each year that's to bring in those musicians that they also pay on top of that uh to spend the night here two nights with rehearsal uh sometimes three here in stt Angelo to put on the symphony concerts and that's what you were talking about some of these mus musicians are not just local musicians they're most uh 60% maybe 75 um 85 and I I as far as uh I just want to say to to the mayor's Point um as far as the amount needed even during this boom uh again St Angelo during the Boom is just now approaching the number that a lot of cities not in the boom use to support the Arts um so I don't feel it's unreasonable um I can assure you that the amount requested each year from these just these four organizations uh for funding dramatically exceeds where we're at right now at 5% uh we could go up another $100,000 um and still uh be in the ballpark of of what they're asking for and what they could use to really promote these events on a scale that would that would show marked results in tourism do I have comment from the count from the from the audience on this body want to weigh in let's call for the vote the motion has been made Miss gr staff that we allow 5% be set up on three years it has been seconded all in favor please say I I see raise let's see all show hands all oppose nay that's 52 it passed congratulations Michael or Daniel and we're going to take a few little few minutes of a break I have uh we do have a couple of people here that is that are here for the number 18 if it is all right with Council I would like to go ahead and pull number 18 up and let's handle this that they can get on their way and we'll

[4:11:15] handle the rest of the deals anybody have a problem with that no yall on the left left all right on the left wing right wing okay let's go ahead and pull number 18 and Elizabeth I didn't know whether you I don't know whether you know this or not but part of Winky's job was at 3:00 he said motion to adjourn so keep in mind you got some extra extra duties there got s minutes let's go on number 18 discussion review possible action regarding the catering agreement insurance requirements Miss Marley good afternoon Council mayor city manager um I am before you today to discuss our catering agreement that we have um for any Caterers that choose to um host an event at the uh any City facility we've been approached by a small restaurant who has indicated to us that they're unable to get the coverage that's required by our contract um a little history just so you're recall um in 2009 the city council the legal department and the Civic events board reviewed the a contract and made some changes to it two changes to the insurance um in order to maintain consistency with our caterer or with our um concessionaires and um at this point the um uh this particular restaurant is um having difficulty in getting the cover that's required under our current agreement as you know or might imagine there are many hazards that can occur in a kitchen um what this restaurant has asked us to do is for the city to take on those requirements of covering any of the events that they would cater we um yes would you repeat that last statement certainly um the this restaurant has approached us and asked us as the city

[4:13:17] to cover their workers comp insurance if they were to host um or cater an event here in our one of our facilities okay thank you MH are we going to be open to all small companies saying this if we do this that's part of this discussion we have we have a list of Caterers when a when a uh someone comes in and wants to rent one of our buildings for an event and they need a caterer we do have a list of Caterers that we start at the beginning of each year with catering facilities that have coverage um if they coverage lapses during the time that they they've been placed on the list and if they are selected by a vendor they would have to show proof of insurance at that point or they're Struck from the list um so that's where we are with this and um I don't know what else I can say about it except to answer any questions that you may have so the question is that this one restaurant wants us to be responsible for his workman's comp yes and and some of the other insurance that they provided as copies of their coverage don't match the requirements as well but yet all the other caterers in town take care of their own workman comp and their own insurance yes sir if they choose to be a caterer that's used in one of our city facilities yes sir mayor council members I do want to point out though that this also what they had requested on the agreement is maybe not necessarily that the city cover that that that risk but also that the city perhaps allow for them to approach perhaps a temporary employment agency that offers the the uh this coverage as far as the workers comp and that they could fall under that umbrella is what they're asking for as well so uh that is another request that came came from them so I just want to make sure that I pointed that is correct and when we checked with that temporary agency they no longer offer that coverage okay I've got a question go ahead John so the the list of vendors or Caterers that we have yes they all have workman's comp

[4:15:22] and how much is that is that policy the workers comp is 100,000 it's a statatory amount 100,000 for the liability of each accident 500,000 for disease and 100,000 for the employer's liability for each employee of of a disease what is what is the cost to the caterer it depends on your on their exposure correct well it just say just name one I mean what is I don't I don't have their policies in front of me I guess my question is i' I've I've understood it that is it a $10,000 cost for them to have it or John I've got John Sean here who may be more vers some those indiv along those lines does everybody that on that list have it they do and it's is it an annual expense that they have to go after or yes it's an annual $10,000 or whatever well whatever the cost is based on their exposure sure John their premium is going to vary from depending on the employer or the owner of the business based on their experience based on the size of their business uh what the exposure is that the insurance company sees uh the number of employees has something to do with it their history loss history has a lot to do with it I know of some who have 10 employees who are paying less than $3,000 a year and others that may have five employees and they're having to pay $13,000 a year or more so it it depends a lot on their history their loss exposure their loss history mayor yes sir um we have or Lisa this is probably yours we have a hold harmless uh in the contract agreement why do we care we have an indemnification agreement in the contract M um talk into the microphone John excuse me we have an down John okay I'm not used to being here indemnification agreement in the

[4:17:27] contract and that's another reason for requiring Insurance because for someone who suffers a loss who has to defend a loss uh they're going to they're agreeing to indemnify the city and protect the the city's interest without insurance uh it's going to be an expensive loss for them uh they're going to have to come up with thousands of dollars to defend the city alone in addition to what they may have to defend themselves with so that's another good reason for the insurance how many Caterers do we have on our list it varies from time to time the um I don't know how many right now it's been up up to so we've got 23 vendors or 23 Caterers that means that 23 of them are doing what doing everything we require and we got one that wants to do away with workman comp yeah most of them complain about the insurance can't do most most people complain about it because it's a cost of doing business and it's expensive yes it is but you consider the cost of Defending a claim that could be $100,000 and it's even more expensive yeah do I have any com any further comment from Council anybody want to weigh in on this if not I'm waiting for a motion motion to deny motion to deny the request do I have a second second do have a motion I do have a second do I have any comment from the audience on this state your name Dorothy and you got three to five you don't get 40 like the last one no don't worry got this down my name is Dorothy doit and um as many of you know I am the owner of a very small business called fiddle fire catering it it's located at 1103 South Oaks now uh we've been on the city approved catering list since about 2010 and uh we were first uh I think I was probably the smallest business ever to get on this City

[4:19:29] Catering list it was me and my Chuck Wagon and let me tell you uh I was going to be catering at the lilyfest and this all came up uh about this insurance and all of a sudden I had to have every kind of insance is imaginable now let people understand that I was appalled I was like what and uh John Satan did a very good job we went through every single I think nitpicky thing every reason why we had to have every kind of insurance and why because I was small I couldn't afford that but he very diligently took the time to explain to me all of the reasons that everybody who catered on city property needed this regardless of whether we were in a park or here at the convention center and I got to tell you when it comes down to it the logic is there he is his job is to protect the city and and the city's interests and as a taxpayer I think he's done his job extremely well uh I wasn't happy about it we complain all the time the the price of insurance and uh and it's very very difficult um and workers comp is the one thing that does fluctuate you go through a a you know audits every year a payroll audit every year and they they look at what your risks are and as long as you do the right thing sometimes it goes down and sometimes it goes up but um I guess I'm just I was appalled when I found out that's somebody's asking for a you know uh I want to cater at the city whether it's Convention Center or wherever I mean I do a lot of catering at Fort cono and it's been extremely expensive for me to do this but I had to look at it as a business decision and I had to make the decision that5 $6,000 a year or whatever is what it cost me to be on the City Catering list it's brought me business and I had to determine myself whether I did enough business on city property to make it worth my while and that's how I feel that any business

[4:21:32] owner there's lots of Caterers and there's lots of restaurants if they want to run their business with no in Insurance that's their business but if they're going to be on city property they need to follow the same rules that I had to and I just don't think it's fair to allow this I don't know who it is but any other small business to come in and because they're small because you can't get smaller than Dorothy and or Chuck Wagon okay sorry and I do use temporary help and we do have workers come come with those temporary workers just the way it's it's been done uh so I'm here just to tell you that I agree with John Satan and um uh the city I believe that uh the ordinance is fair I believe it's thorough I think it's well thought out and I think it's well written and as much as it pains me to tell you this because it is expensive uh I really think that it's it's uh should not be messed with I think it's very very well stated and if you don't want to be part of it you don't have to if a person wants that caterer they can rent another facility that doesn't have those requirements nobody's telling them they have to rent a city property for their event so if they want a caterer that's not up to par for the insurance and is not on the list then they can take their event to another facility and I guess that's all I need to say thank you Dorothy thank you mayor I do have one one question how do we help out a Dorothy downit that has herself in a Chuck Wagon and you mentioned that temporary employment agency I mean is there any other way we can help somebody like like Dorothy out I mean is there any other Avenue news any other anyway um I'm not coming up with any on the top joh she's not asking for help though no no but I'm saying if if there was a that case out there that it was Nancy and her Chuck Wagon how is there any other way to the limitations on on the uh Labor Ready for instance are that you don't

[4:23:36] get the waiver of subreg that we want to have that protects the city in case an employee sues the city City uh so you you just don't get that from a temporary agency like we used to be able to get right you can't get it anymore the only way you can actually comply with the workers comp Act is to have workers comp insurance and you buy a policy that's that addresses your company your business and that's one thing you check with all the 23 that are out there on the list I mean that they're up to date we get a Certificate of Insurance on each caterer and we usually check them each time they come up just to make sure that they're current on their list I'm just trying to educate myself but okay sure that sounds good thank you have further public comment come ahead ma'am thank you my name is Lisa trell I do it and Business Development with Dorothy daett at fiddle fire catering um in the beginning we we thought that the that this was a hardship and I guess that all business startups face an expense in the first five to seven years so any kind of insurance or any kind of U imposed uh costs uh as such would be considered a hardship however in the long run this has improved our business because sir this is food service and food service is critical to Safety and Security of our citizens and our customers our clients and it's actually improved our business to have the required insurances because people want Caterers who have stand standards and and compliances and so it's actually in the long run done brought Great Value to our business we have we're members of the American Chuckwagon Association and not only do we cater in San Angelo for the city but we're asked for by people all over the state of Texas to come to their ranches to come to their camps we were in Huntsville last year we were in commanche last I mean we know we're all over the place because people believe

[4:25:38] that we're going to bring standards of of of Sanitation and standards of quality to their business because of the insurances and the compliances that we carry as a Food Service Company so we you really did help us in a way by asking us to to come up to this standard and our State Farm I mean our our insurance policy is a restaurant policy it's it's really sad that we can't uh pick and choose just like with our Cable packages I would like in our Cable packages to pick the channels I want and to program my own package but I get this bundle you know so and with and with insurance you get this bundle and we pay for a restaurant policy every year there's not a a company out there if there is please call me I'm at fiddle fire catering just let me know if I can you know customize my package a little bit better um we're we're constantly working to improve that you know to streamline our insurances and make sure that we're not overinsurance it's brought us a lot of business and it brought us up to a level of of U I guess security and comfort for our clients and that is fiddle fire catering it is it is thank you thank you very much do I have any further comments from the from the audience on this not we're going to take a vote all in favor of denying the exception please say I I any oppose nay drop a 70 on that one thank you thank you ma'am okay let's go back then to number 16 which is discussion and possible action related to funding sources for Street Maintenance reconstruction and other Improvement Miss benell okay I have uh several options to present here for the funding of Street reconstruction and maintenance uh some of the options I'm going to present might require some more research but we kind of wanted to get an idea of

[4:27:40] direction from Council before we invested too much staff time and researching some of the more in-depth options um more thoroughly so I'll start here with our stet maintenance sales tax of course we've already discussed this quite a bit um in depth but wanted to put that out there as one of the options um and feel free to stop me if you have any questions on any of these we can stop and discuss as we go or at the end however you however you prefer um another option oh I'm sorry I wanted to say that the Street Maintenance sales tax does does provide provide approximately $2 million a year and that would be 1/8 Cent on the sales tax um another option would be franchise or rideway fees these are state state regulated and they're a little bit different for each utility that we charge the fee to um we have begun to research these fees and what our Agreements are with each type of franchise some are just a flat percentage of Revenue and some are more complicated based on a baseline year and number of um units and and things like that so um certainly an option that we'd be glad to explore further to see if we could increase our revenues there um that would be that would be useful for streets but it would also um possibly free up you know revenues in other areas to to alleviate funding issues in other areas of the general fund is this something that they would pass along to their clients is this kind of like the deal that we just recently did with Sudden Link where we added on the what was that tax the peg fee yeah right that that Peg fee was required by the state but yes I do believe they passed it through on the it was required or it was something that we had available to us that we had from my understanding that it it's required by the state to be charged through on on the cable bill when I do know it was passed through I do know no it it definitely was passed through yeah and the franchise fee to answer the question actually that is a pass through typically it is passed through to the customer then to use yourself yes so in other words we're just raising taxes yes

[4:29:42] we are just presented different options right now okay so next we have our existing allocation for capital projects um as you know we uh allocate $1.75 million a year for capital projects um currently we allocate about 250,000 of that for a fir Tru every year and the remaining 1 and A5 million is available for however Council chooses to allocate it we have current storm water fees um this is one of those that would require some research to see how it's legal when and where you know what we'd be able to do with it um you know also there there's the option to increase the storm water fee same thing there we would need to to take some time to research that and put pencil to paper and and see what we could do and what kind of Revenue we could generate from it um but certainly we'd be glad to do that exploration if Council directs there is a street assessment fee um this is kind of an old-fashioned approach but it charges a fee to a landowner for the ab budding property to the street um there are some limitations and some options for doing that um I'm not completely familiar with it but again we'd be glad to research it I know Patrick Howard is is familiar with it our director of development services um so if you have any questions on that as we go you're you're free to ask on that as well the Street Maintenance user fee um this is a fee that's been Implement implemented recently by Corpus Christie and basically what they do with theirs is they just tack it onto the utility bill um I believe they charge for residential customers it's a flat rate of $528 for commercial customers they do it a little differently based on square footage and other factors um and like I said it just goes it's a flat fee on the utility statement it's charged to every utility user um so for example with St Angelo we bill out about 35,000 customers um and that includes both residential and Commercial customers but

[4:31:44] if you were to put a $5 flat fee on there that would provide about $2 million a year so just to give you some Tina and you're talking about the the water the water bill utility bill yes it's a Street Maintenance user fee but for lack of a better uh option you would just tack it onto the utility bill because most of our residents have a utility bill so but you're talk but again you're talking about the water the water bill that's correct that's the utility bill you're done yes sir yeah okay yes sir quick question yes ma'am the water utility late fee which is half a million dollars a year can that not be dedicated to the street fund well it can be but it's water revenue and it's used to provide services well streets are Services yes it's currently being used to provide water services so it that would be a reduction in Revenue in the water fund or it' be a transfer out of the water fund to the general fund that is that is possible thank you okay um moving along we of course have the property tax we know that one cent of that is about based on current valuation is about $360,000 a year um certainly not encouraging to raise the property tax rate but just to give you an idea if we held it steady and used you know excess to maybe allocate directly for streets or some something in that in that manner so some other um current fees that we actually use are charge right now that we could look at to perhaps um adjust or you know actually charge the cost of the services that we're providing to the user um right now we we have credit card fees that are charged by some departments this is a convenience fee that um we pay directly to a credit card company when someone uses a credit card to pay for our services so just to give

[4:33:47] you an idea for example the billing and receipts division last year paid out $90,000 and credit card charge fees so that's something that we could vote to pass along to the customer that would again it would just alleviate pressure on the general fund and free up that money to be used elsewhere um uh also of course license and permits fees I think last year our revenue and license and permit fees was about $600,000 um I think that would take a little bit of time and effort to figure out exactly what those fees should be and and exactly how much more gener Revenue we could generate but we'd be glad to do that other findes and fees I think in the past planning fees and other Code Compliance fees have been discussed that might be options to implement at some future date additional fees that we don't currently charge but that are options to free up revenues for other sources would be a cemetery tax um this tax is allowable up to 5 Cent and it goes directly on top of the property tax so it would increase the property tax but what it is not it does not go towards you know your roll back rate or your effective rate so that's really the only benefit of having a dedicated Cemetery tax um coin operated machine tax you can charge up to $15 a year for every coin op coin operated machine in the city that's an option there are impact fees um impact fees are from my understanding designed to lessen the burden on cities where developments are uh being implemented uh neighborhood developments are being implemented to free up the burden on the city for um creating the infrastructure infrastructure so there are also limitations with that one we would need to research and see how and when that's a available and of course the venue tax so the venue tax is um a tax that is um has to go to

[4:35:51] ballot and voted on by the voters um it is dedicated for a particular venue which is also named in the ballot um it's no longer available once the the project is completed uh some examples of venue tax would be an extra 2% of the hotel occupancy tax um their car rental fees you can put a tax on those um parking fees uh there there are a handful of others that that are options as well so Tina before you go the coin operated machine tax yes sir are you talking about am I thinking what Coke machines or what what that's my understanding vending machines Coke machines uh arcades like I said these are all we would need to do some more Research into any of these but we would be happy to explore and see what what options are available for our city but like that that's $15 per machine so I don't know you know if that would be worth no probably not okay so um okay next okay and of course our decrease in our annual Debt Service requirement also an option that's more of a pay as you go approach so you see here this line the blue line up here uh shows what what the value of eight 8 cents is across the next 20 years you can see it's right now it's about $3 million excuse me and then over the span of 20 years moves up closer to $4 million M oh yeah I didn't know if that worked while it was up here so yeah here it's here it's $3 million in fy14 and it moves up closer to the $4 million Mark by fiscal year 33 and then here in fy14 this is showing our debt service payments um that are backed by the property tax um and so $2 million uh our fiscal year 14 payment is about $2 million but you can see it begins to

[4:37:53] decrease as we go um the next oh 15 years or so um down to about 1.3 million and then drops off and we no longer have any debt payments assuming we issue no more debt so we could obviously use that existing capacity as it drops and becomes larger and larger to do pay you go type maintenance and projects and that's what I have for you if you have any questions I'll be glad to answer or any direction I've got a something I want to just throw this out what what about the idea of of uh trying to pass a $50 million bond election or you know 75 million to make an impact on Street right away and I understand about the seven-year cycle and maybe staggering the the the issues right so did you guys look at any of that or well you'll recall that we actually did present that to council as an option um a couple months ago I think at the night meeting um and we'd be certainly glad to explore that and bring it back um it's certainly an option that's something that I guess would have to go into to ballot you know be put on the ballot for something like that uh well there are a couple of ways to do it whichever way you go you want to uh Define what your source of repayment is what what's you're going to be your source for The Debt Service for that period of time uh often times uh you take a bond election to the voters so that they can decide the value of the assets you're going to create versus the funding source that you're going to Levy often times that Levy is a property tax levy so uh that's why you see and hear people talk about we're going to build these assets and it's going to have this impact on the property tax rate the voters right up front know that we're going to get those assets but we're

[4:39:55] going to have to we're going to have to face this and we're approving this property tax the use of this property tax rate increase to fund that Debt Service you're letting the voters make that decision on that that issue um to the one one one cent equals $360,000 so if we were to borrow $50,000 you're looking at 15 to 20 cents 50 million what are you looking at you're looking at 10 you're looking at 15 cents more on the tax rate to to pay that off over a 20e span well one of the things that I kind of a rule of thumb I use remember about 10 years ago about 12 years ago we issued 20 million worth of debt with a 20-year repayment at Market rates it wasn't any special subsid rate from the state uh and that debt service for 20 years is about $1.5 million per year so I try to work that's a nickel that's a nickel on the tax rate that's right and so I try to think of it in terms of that multiples of that 20 so if Johnny if we wanted to do 60 million we'd need to come up with $4.5 Million worth of debt service every year for 20 years and that's 15 cents on the tax rate added to what it is now can can I our fining yeah yes Don my my whole emphasis on this was was to try to find money for streets without raising taxes right okay doing it and I if you look at what's presented if if we have uh if we can get uh the the funds for our igh Cent sales tax switched over to streets for 4 years then that's $2 million if we use our decrease in debt service requirements that's roughly 700,000 to a million right Tina uh at the beginning the decrease yes it's about 700,000 it gradually gets larger right so 700,000 to a million over the the four-year span

[4:41:58] of the eth Cent and then we're already committing 1.7 that gives us $5.4 million per year for the next four to 5 years without us raising any taxes that is not going to cure all of our woses but at least it will give us a start where we're headed down a direction that that we can kind of Bank on for a while but you can only Bank on it four years right but but what but but what are we giving up on the 8 cent sales tax what what are we giving up too much $2 million no I'm sorry I'm joking I think I've got some of that information here if I can dig it out are you talking about on the half sales tax for economic development there's not enough on both sides so you would have to take from both the ballot side and the economic development side and I think we gave some information Michael has it right there that we researched with some more exact numbers on each side I've got a projection here Don and I went over this Don you remember the big sheets uh for for the 1415 fiscal year based on this estimate the total uh half cent sales tax revenue string in kosa DC we're talking about money coming from the half cent that goes to kosa DC that half cent according to this projection would generate approximately $8.6 million an eighth of a cent is a quarter of a half so we're looking at trying to find approximately $2.1 to $2.2 million if you look at the budgets that exist the way the the spending patterns are and have been and the commitments the existing commitments to Debt Service on the ballot side of that the ballot side could provide of that 2.15 million could provide about 1.45 million which means the rest of that's if you took all you could from the ballot side before you hit economic development that means the rest would

[4:44:00] have to come from Economic Development and based on these projections that'd be about $700,000 that economic the the net money is available for economic development projects out of that year is approximately 1.6 million so that 1.6 million would be reduced to approximately 900,000 so what do we give up we give up $700,000 worth of uh dollars available for economic development projects and you give up $ 1.45 million on the ballot side which is currently being which is currently dedicated for future water supply now what are we using that for now we're paying for West Texas water partnership invoices out of that money we're we have on this next agenda an item to discuss with kadc a proposal for them to fund this uh water reuse project study um and uh um we will ask them uh for the uh to fund the uh R Royal Project Extension Also let's say we do those studies and we move forward with a project if we don't if we haven't moved that money to streets that $1.5 million a year would be available for some future water supply issue assuming we get clearance from legal and the board and all that if we don't have that money available to pay that debt for examp and we just talked about 1.5 million a year it would Finance approximately $20 million per year for 20 years or $20 million financed over 20 years if we don't have that money available to come from this source and we do one of those projects we're going to have to get that money from somewhere else so that would likely be an additional increase on the water

[4:46:03] rates beyond what else might be necessary so again that's a very long answer what do you give up you give up approximately uh 40 to 40% 40 to 45% of your Economic Development annual monies plus you give up all of the monies available on the ballot side to work on future water supply issues but that's with the the finances that are are here at this time that's with no growth that's just a snapshot of this this moment that's true that's with no growth and it's also with no decline that that assumes a steady amount into the future I I would hate to see us use the half cent sales tax for streets I think that jobs can help fund streets in the future but I don't think I don't think better streets create jobs in St Angelo and there just are not that many sources of funds we have for economic development so I think we need to keep looking harder at some other sources and and some that you've presented right there are more transparent than others otherwise we're just robbing one hand to pay the other I don't think we can continue to do more with less so I I'm not ready to concede that that is in fact the answer I appreciate Don trying to do something that doesn't hurt anyone but perhaps we need to feel a little pain I agree with feeling a little bit of pain also I think that when you look at the future of our city with the economic development dollars I sure hate to start using Economic Development dollars but I think that feeling the the pain is part of the process when they started looking at the at the budgeting and also some of the work that's being done at this point uh some of the uh the the programs that will be put in place for more efficiencies to reduce our expenditures uh those are things that are ongoing at this point and those are things that are

[4:48:05] going to help the city to reduce those expenditures free up some monies so I know that right now again and this has been said in the past this didn't happen overnight where right now we need about 7 to 11 million for the next seven years to do our streets so it's going to take a little bit of work a lot a little bit of Ingenuity on the part of staff and of course with the direction of the city council but we're really we're ready to address that as well I know that this is just a presentation initially I know that uh here at the very end I'm going to ask that within the next two weeks before our next city council meeting we actually have a retreat uh that we actually have an opportunity to sit down and really go through this even more in depth and we can discuss exactly what we feel uh we can do as a staff and also to get that final Direction but again this is just a presentation and uh I really would look forward to actually discussing this more in depth at the next uh for at the retreat with the next couple of weeks can I throw out one more thing let's let short she's she's waiting I'm sorry well for once today I agree with Miss gr staff um but uh I do believe she is exactly right I remember the the no vote in getting the half cent sales tack to begin with and then I remember educating the people as to what it would be used for narrowly passages of of it and then the sunset being lifted um Council and City staff proved to the citizens we would do exactly with that money what it was intended and what they voted on and to change it again or now to come back and and mess with it for something that I think we can find other funds other sources to pay for our streets that we need to leave the have Cent sales tax alone and stand alone and take care of our streets in in other areas and other ways of funding and besides all that we need a whole lot more even to start up than we could gain by messing with the half cent sales tax you know $4 million sounds like a lot of money but when it comes to fixing a

[4:50:08] street it's nothing well to to put it in pers perspective that that nothing is about 5 a half cents on our tax rate if we just say okay we're going to to raise $2 million by raising taxes that's 5 and a half cents Rodney I'm I I see this the way da is saying this you know and I do think we probably should have to feel some pain coming because what's happened is everybody before us has kicked this can down the road and these streets have gotten to this condition because no one has been willing to to sacrifice and pay for this but I I I see Don's point in that on the e e eth of a cent sales tax or that portion of it in that if the business was thinking about coming here I I see that as an economic development because we are putting good streets in there and we are doing things that would make I mean Bell Street right now if you drove down Bell Street and you were thinking about going over on that side of town There's no way you would go over there on that side of town because of how bad it looks it looks terrible I think that we'll still have money in the economic development side and this is only for I believe if we put this before the voters it's for a fouryear span am I right on that M it's for a fouryear span so at the end of the four years you know if it ain't if it's going bad we'll we we'll change it at the end of that otherwise it we need to take the money and we're going to have to raise taxes so just like he said how many 5 and a half cents right 5 and a half cents we're going to have to raise that we have to do something so we either have to do we either do the 1 18 Cent or we raise taxes I mean to me it's as simple as that there's we're we're going to feel it one way or the other so we got to make it and we're here that's that's what we all signed up for is the hard decisions to make and we need to get we

[4:52:11] need to make serious hard decisions and you know I'm not up here as you all know I'm not up here trying to win a popularity contest because I'll I'll lose hands down and but I'm I'm up here to make those hard decisions and I think that uh you know we need to seriously do these and we need to do it quickly we need to not keep pushing this down the road like everybody before us has done let's be the people that change the city and get it going in the right direction well done I'm done and then Marty okay you know while while at the beginning uh and I call it the Jim the Jim Ryan Jim Ryan yeah Jim Ryan idea on the half cent sales tax money being used while at the beginning it sounded like a the greatest idea since the invention of bread I thought it was good at the beginning but the more I think about it you are right we need to leave that money alone and not mess with it the voters could come down and just voted down anyway and just messed the whole thing up but I think the citizens uh need to understand that we are up here thinking about the the concerns or the gripes or whatever and Rody and I experienced it and Elizabeth on on on the campaign Trail where streets was right underneath water you know but I think there comes a time when we are going to have to make a tough decision we're going to have to bite the bullet because who is the one tearing up the streets it's us it's the citizens of s Angelo you know plus some of the companies that are out there but uh I think there there going to be a time whether we we we can sit here and talk about it all day long and think about ideas and not do anything or we can bite the bullet and and move forward with the idea of some kind of funding and it's going to have to come from the citizens you know the the users of the the the Street Maintenance user fee I mean that that says it right there who who's who's using these these roads it's us you know and we better take care of it or it's going to you know we'll have Bell streets all over said Angelo and and I hear about that one every week so we are here trying to find Solutions citizens thank you Marty well I I I'm not in

[4:54:17] favor of of messing with the half sales tax I I think uh no matter how you move it across after if the voters vote on it and and you and you and they vote to do it then then we need to make sure we tell them we're building them into automatic another increase on water because once we take from the water Revenue cuz even if you want to kill Economic Development which I think would be a grave mistake you can't get it all out of Economic Development so some of still got to come out of the out of the ballot side and and that part uh you you you're building the you're building this the people into an increased water rate that we're probably already going to have to increase you know I I had a citizen talked to me the other day and he said you know I I appreciate what prior Council has done about continuing to to cut taxes a little bit but he said you know quit quit quit throwing us crumbs take the hard stand fix our streets and if if we have to increase taxes increase taxes I I'm not in favor of increased taxes but if if we throw two or three million at it a year uh we're it's like spitting in a fan I I I think we're going to have to take the a hard stand on it and and take a big bite and go at it I think that's just what it's going to take but but I'm not in favor of using the house and sales tax period And I do want to emphasize again that uh initially and we talk about this seven-year period that we work on the streets the initial investment for the city it's going to be as mentioned a while ago between $9 to1 million for the first s years but after that we go into maintenance mode and we'll be we're looking at three to $35 million so that amount drops off significantly the deal is right now is that we need to come up with a stratey strategy to address these next seven years by the time those seven years are over I guarantee you the three and three and a half million dollars for

[4:56:19] maintenance it's going to be a no-brainer it's going to be a lot easier for us to accomplish but right now the challenge is these next seven years how do we get it done and I think that uh putting our heads together we definitely can come up with a strategy to make that happen I actually writing some notes right now that popped into my head so well and you know I said this starting out uh this isn't the Silver Bullet that's going to that's going to cure everything but we've got to do something like Rodney was saying we've been setting on our hands the previous councils have had other priorities or or whatever but you know our streets are getting to to such a point now uh North chadburn 29th Street Bell Street Paint Rock Road I mean you can the list just goes on and on Southwest uh I mean they're all over town and they're not getting any better so um that that was my plan to try to do something I'm open to anything else but I think we need to do something quickly Tina what would we talked about a a Street Maintenance tax a $5 a month Street Maintenance tax yes what would this equal per year in in money okay so that's what I was talking about we we bill out 35,000 customers a year that includes both residential and commercial but $5 per each of those customers would yield about 2 .1 million a year is that something that the voters would well I would think it's something the voters would have to approve I don't I don't believe so I would need to look into it more but I believe it's just something that Council can direct one other thing real quick um I think we ought to be having credit card fees now yes uh I I thought we were already doing that I know for some reason I I thought municipal Court was and everybody else was too but um if we're not doing that I mean I think we're we're losing out on that because I know in many

[4:58:22] instances you'll you'll go out and they'll say here's the cash price over the internet and here's the credit card price they're going to charge you that 3% or whatever it is convenience fee yeah right it's a convenience Fe so I I think we need to be doing that anyway does have anything to do with streets Don even that is crumb right I mean it's not a $90,000 but that'll help our general fund but but I I think we we need to look at at Street funding if if we're going to have a retreat or something and talk about it I think we need to to look at it in two different categories one repair and two maintain and maintenance needs to begin immediately on the streets that are still good so we don't lose any more so we need to find the 3 to 3.3 million for maintenance right away and then figure out what it's going to take to repair the other streets and actually it's a two-fold attack when we use when when I talk about funding 9 to1 million a year that includes at the same time it's a portion for maintenance and a portion for reconstruction so you're doing it at the same time and you're absolutely right Marty uh you want to make sure to take care of those streets that are on the cusp of of uh needing reconstruction if we don't do something about it immediately so it goes hand in hand so there's there's two two areas of funding which is going to be maintenance as well as the Reconstruction of those streets as well okay but you're you're roll the money mayor ask a question of all of the uh possibilities that you outlined I think that the venue tax is the only one that is your microphone on yes it's on and now it's up um it's the only one that might generate the most funds from I guess citizens out other citizens outside of our community is that right and y'all have studied that before without being too specific I mean what do you think that could generate annually and I'm I'm not sure what Phil neighbors would say from the chamber point of view on a venue tax but I can't answer to all of the options for the venue tax but I did look into the extra 2% on the hotel occupant occupancy tax

[5:00:26] and last year that would have generated $800,000 okay and I think all of the other options would probably be less I think that would probably be the most significant at this point where we are right now so but but 800 ,000 is significant that's it is a significant coupled especially with the other we used it in abing for a specific venue I mean I mean we actually maybe several venues that were kind of high budget venues it's limited to a specific venue but um in the in the local government code it does mention that it can be used for related infrastructure for a venue and it does include in the language streets and roads I would still want to run it through our city attorney's off office actually before we implement anything but it is maybe an option so is that a ballot it is venue taxes it has to go to ballot any of some of the hotels nowadays I mean they're they're raking in monies I mean well it's just another opportunity to take what you would spend in general fund on a venue away but I I I couldn't remember when they were looking at it before what Revenue that would generate per year potentially of course now our hotel situation is even you know much different from then so I would have no idea thank you may I suggest that we uh take this information and when we have our Retreat let's determine how much money we need per month what we think we need to do what we need what what we need for what we need and then we can look at this in more depth would that be yeah I mean we brought it out I appreciate what you've done that gives us some options absolutely and uh I think we need probably more than one but I think we need to talk about this some more because it's a serious problem it's getting worse every day thank you Tina yes sir thank you let's move on now to number 17 which is first public hearing consideration of introducing an ordinance amending the 213 214 budget in ordinance of City s Angel amending the budget for fiscal year ending October 1

[5:02:28] 213 ending September 30 214 for capital projects of webman replacement Miss Morgan your own good afternoon I have a few items here before you uh just some housekeeping items um things that have been approved that need to be budgeted and so the first one we've already touched on this morning are about the peg fees that this was a mandate required by the state and so we're going to budget for that revenue and budget for that expense it is a restricted um Revenue source and it can only be used for Capital items related to public information so that's $888,000 in change in revenue and the same amount in expense the next item we have are some uh equipment replacement needs we had some some wck vehicles and some insurance proceeds uh the insurance proceeds were not enough to replace that vehicle so we're coupling that with an uh a a proposed good year for auction sales and um and also there's a need to transfer some money from the general fund to a a a supporting fund uh so that would be $57,000 uh increasing revenue and uh the same amount also increasing in expense the next item I have was approved at the last agenda on May uh 6th by the council to purchase uh a software uh for the vehicle maintenance division uh from their fund balance which is sufficient to cover this onetime uh purchase of $215,000 and then the last item also again uh approved by the city council May 6 uh to expand the scope of the uh Fort cono Stables air conditioning installation by $75,000 and so we'll um transfer that out of the um Civic events Hotel occupancy tax uh excess into the the fort contro fund to uh move forward with that project house ke somebody want to make me a motion I will make a motion to approve as presented second do have a motion to approve with second any further councel discussion audience discussion all in favor please say I I oppose Nay put a 70 on that thank you

[5:04:30] thank you okay we've got first public hearing consideration of introduction of an ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a zoning ordinance code of ordinances city of St Angelo Z 1407 ory L Connor an ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a of the code of ordinances city of s Angelo Texas which said exhibit a of chapter 12 adops zoning regulations use districts and a zoning map in accordance with the comprehensive plan by changing the zoning and classification of the following properties to it 1411 oriet Street located at the southwest corner of the intersection of Orient Street and Avenue J more specifically located in the fort cono Edition block 101 Lots six and seven in South Central San Angelo changing the zoning classification from two family residential rs2 to Neighborhood commercial CN District provided for severability providing for a penalty your own sir okay I'll make this brief the applicant is requesting a change in the zoning from two family residential to Neighborhood commercial staff did me recommend denial based on uh some of the current development within the area however and that's consistent with the vision plan map based on the vision plan map however City C uh I'm sorry Planning Commission did recommend approval unanimously for the development I can show you some of the existing development uh if you so choose to see that but the recommendation from the Planning Commission was to approve however the vision plan map very slightly and Al ultimately led to a staff recommending denial of such this is in your area have you been about to look at this do you know where it is yeah I know exactly where it's at I'd like to see let's have some pictures on it please Pat they're on the background okay um I'm sorry so you can see the neighborhood I mean it's kind of hard to see the subject property is in the center um so this is the existing uh this is

[5:06:34] the proposed uh zoning action and you can see um uh near South chadburn uh in E Avenue I mean East Avenue J um as far as the subject property this may give you a better indication of what's uh in the general area um you can see there's some uh residential uses um as well although one would suggest that the area is in transition so there may be some rational basis for some of what was uh discussed at the Planning Commission however um as you can see here um again the subject property and then you see um um this is essentially the response map in terms of who who responded um to the uh notification okay so here at the subject property you can see that there is a recommendation for the vision plan map which is counter to what was ultimately decid upon by Planning Commission however again the the basis for their recommendation was that they believ that the area was in transition and there is a potential to see some commercial development in the area so here are some pictures of the subject property looking North from the neighborhood at the neighborhood uh looking South toward the intersection of Orient Street in Avenue K west view of the subject property and looking West um at the alley located east of the subject property mayor that's an old uh it used to be the Jehovah's Witness church it was which they have moved over there to pum Street and uh I I don't understand why they denied him I mean I thought it was so it was not Zone commercial I mean even though the church was there church is allowed

[5:08:37] in any District the so so essentially the vision plan map as I showed you recommended the highest and best use of property to be something other than commercial OB residential and however again with the discussion at the discussion at the Planning Commission there was some feeling that maybe the area being in transition May warrant such such that it we should that the city council should entertain an idea of resoning it to commercial John need to make a it's your area make a make a motion one way there then let's let's talk about well do we have an idea of what will become of that I mean if if we were to go to commercial uh there was they were fairly General in their in what they were proposing um they essentially just had some some commercial uses and obviously there's no requirement to have the detailed for that so um they dis mentioned neighborhood commercial which for all intense purposes in terms of the most uh least or least intensive in terms of a commercial use neighborhood commercial would be the appropriate zoning classification and Patrick I was looking for the uh the letters in response to the area of not notification there was just one letter there was right and they were both right there were 18 notifications sent one returned in favor and one opposed so it was proposed to deny it right sta staff St staff but the plan commission said 100 to allow it correct the staff recommendation was denial based on the recommendation the vision plan map which essentially talks about what is the best and the highest and best use still land for the future okay and but and we based our recommendation on that fact I'm going to make a motion that we go with staff along with the denial you know deny for it to go into commercial so I think uh I'll second that I think that needs to remain

[5:10:40] residential I I at first when I first saw it I was thinking church I was thinking commercial I didn't realize churches can be anywhere so I'm going to uh we do have a motion to deny going to CN it has been seconded Don isn't everything all around that uh commercial the are is in transition and so that there is obviously there's this may this may help give you some indication there is residential across the street there is some vacant Lots um just south of the area so again it's a it's a real it's a transitional area what's the zoning of the vacant lot I'm let me see you know do you know what the zoning is for this these they're commercial behind there see and that's that's what the the zoning board basically said is it's commercial all the way around it except for across the street and didn't I see a tire sh stop right there beside it yeah there's south of it at the corner of chadburn and East Avenue K there's that Wilson tire and then I believe maybe they own all those properties but there is residential on the north on the west on the east side of that that property so it's it's residential all the way around except for part of our decision is to help stabilize the residential exactly make their life comfortable if there's that much available commercial for development it doesn't necessarily mean that you need more the motion has been made to deny do I have any further counsel discussing discussion it must be almost 4:00 do I have anything from the from the audience on this motion has been made to deny all in favor say I I all all oppos n nay nay look like we have two Nays and five eyes motion has been denied what funny looking dude we though let's move on now to number 20 which is the first public hearing

[5:12:42] consideration of introducing an ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a zoning ordinance of col of ordinances city of s Angelo morizio Ina Cornelio how close did I get nowhere near an ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a of the code of ordinances city of St Angelo Texas which said exhibit a of chapter 12 adopts zoning regulations use districts and a zoning map in accordance with a comprehensive plan but changing the zoning and classification of the following properties to Wi 4230 4224 and 4436 North Bryant bulevard Frontage Road located approximately 130 ft Northeast of the intersection of North Bryant Frontage Road in Lake Drive more specifically occupying approximately 15.3 Acres of the sa and mg railroad Co survey 0011 abstract 1954 Northwest s Angelo changing the zoning classific from ranching State R need to General commercial CG providing for severe ability providing the penalty your own sir all right in this case the applicant is requesting uh to change zoning from Ranch in the state to General commercial the good thing is that uh staff did recommend approval and it is consistent with the vision plan map and consistent with the development in the area and so Planning Commission and staff concur with the recommendation of changing the land the zoning from Ranch in the state to General commercial and I can again show you the well that's it staff recommends you have any pictures I do see if I didn't show the pictures no someone would said they don't want to see okay uh well so this is the area uh subject property um I think I'll go to maybe one of the better aals so um this is the Mike thank you um this is a vision plan map that looks at the subject property and does recommend commercial for the area um and again is consistent with with planning

[5:14:47] commission's ultimate recommendation as well um here's some pictures of the property looking north um looking south from the subject property East View and looking West and once again we don't know why they want to change it to commercial well they talked about again General commercial like activities but there is no requirement for them to State the the ultimate intended use per se but but it's consistent with what the vision for the area and again the The Joint the the surrounding uses are generally commercial in nature and this was probably Ranch in estate when it was brought into the city correct the time of annexation that's a very good point is that when properties are annexed in the city it's they Auto automatically become ranched in the states until we look at a pending resoning action that may change it to a use that's more appropriate and more consistent with the with the vision plan map and this does that I'll make a motion to approve is presented okay is that Brown's pool that's right next door to that no no it's uh it's on it's on south of that the the residents in this area are very very much opposed to this uh and we have a letter in our background package from the school they have a uh their their livestock Barn is right up to this and they've got children out there all the time it says here in the background that there possibility becoming a recreational vehicle park that's what it says it says the possibility of becoming a a recreational vehicle Park Campground and I might also say I live out there I drive by this every day and there's there has been a bunch of commercial go in and I see them out there washing pipe down they are very very water intensity int intens water intensive stand up roxan tell me tell me what you want to

[5:16:52] say what do you want roxan he was reading that letter well this has been to us before we've already denied this well this is a different applicant and they're requesting something totally different what you're referring to was over a year well yeah over a year ago somebody was um had an application in for an RV campground um what's proposed here and this was also in the Planning Commission notes was um cat Warren wanted to locate there so that's not a campground situation but we still have a letter in this one from the school district that says we do not want these right and and they didn't show up to the Planning Commission to discuss anything with the developer and that's that's up to them um I do know that we also Planning Commission at the same time um approved a subdivision for this area as well and there are streets that are proposed to go in there and um they have you know an idea of what development they want so they're they're not um proposing to rezone the entire Parcels that they own there they're just just this section here for cat Warren if we propose this and give them this this commercial they could put a RV Park in there if they wanted to you can go ahead I mean the zoning goes with the property okay that is absolutely well to the point of what uses are allowed within General commercial obviously someone can state that they're going to be developing it for a purpose and come in for a permit once it's get reson to be something different but obviously the dialogue that went went into the discussion about what was appropriate for the area suggested that General commercial was appropriate so anything within those range of uses is what's going to be allowed so that is something to consider again that's that the recommendation was for that area to be General commercial based on the fact that it's on a major thare and there's a budding commercial um however that you can elect to to uh to see otherwise well I've got to vote against it I've had

[5:18:53] I've had people from out there calling me and I'd end up from a bridge without my head if I voted for this so but the majority of it is rench in state up there again Ranch Estates is the is the default zoning when you Annex area into the city obviously the vision plan map speaks more specifically to what what seemingly is the most appropriate use for the area and and subsequently will lead to zoning changes when there is uh a pending zoning action City doesn't typically go and do comprehensive res zonings although I want to entertain that in the future but the again this is ranching States because it's essentially a hold over from when it did get annexed into the City and everything east of this property the abing property is steel Ranch States and people live out there it is Ranch in the states yes I think we just need to be careful though because if we're going to go if we're going to go against the vision plan me we need to be willing to change the vision plan like a a plan Amendment and if you're wanting to protect the development of the school district which I think is a good reason to consider that that should be a next step because there has to be some consistency or some basis for the zoning decision that Vision plan ain't set in concrete no a vision plan is that it's a plan but you can protect the you can protect the development of the school district more fully if it's reflected in that Vision plan for later decisions we do have a motion to approve I have not heard a second okay okay I just want to make sure one thing right now we're talking uh the I I know the previous owner or or the year ago they were talking about RV park and stuff but under under all that stuff that we beat for six meetings or however many we beat they cannot do that because of the residential here right they would have a very challenging time given the setbacks and all the other requirements as you all are familiar with now intimately regarding the RV

[5:20:55] park so that would be very challenging and my assumption would be that they would not be able to accomplish that on that site it's a th000 foot setback okay what was the result of the drainage study that was done before because when they came before there was also a problem with drainage and water standing out there that's what everybody behind there was talking about was the the drainage problems and that those issues related to drainage would be something that they would obviously have to address subsequently if they were to elect to move forward with something that would required such so again the zoning in and of itself doesn't necessarily guarantee you a specific development or a development of certain type only within the range of uses so there again what was stated may not necessarily be ultimately what they elect to develop it as but it does give you a general category for for what what to anticipate if in fact you were to rezone it prove the rezoning proposal we do have a motion on the floor to allow this I'm still waiting on a second if I don't get it I'm going to ask for another motion I have a question real quick yes sir sir this is zoned r r& right now yes is it allowed on the RN to isn't this a bunch of metal or steel that's just laying around it's just corre that's allowed it is not allowed the area again remember the area got annexed into the city so these were was under a special provision that it was allowed it's a special provision oh it was passed yes they came to the council and they were allowed a special provision to stack this in there and it's I understand it's not going to be there much longer but it was a special provision I'll second we have a motion that we allow this to go from r& to commercial it has been seconded do I have further Council discussion yes yes sir I didn't get to read all the letters in in favor or in

[5:22:58] opposition how did how was it only two what there's only two there's only two there's only two two respondents they were in favor they were one in favor one and this in Marty's District yes yes and in the mayor's District you said that's right because he represents the entire city you said this was cat Warren that's that's possibly looking at this so they're they're probably going to put in a yard for selling bulldozers and front end loaders I don't want to speculate that that's correct I mean however again that I don't want you to to restor Laurels on the fact that that what was proposed is likely to be the case do know you know I know better than anybody that it's a th foot setback on the on the correct Parks okay anybody from the audience want to speak to this before we take the vote okay all in favor of going from r& to commercial please say I I I all oppose nay nay looks like two Nays and five eyes it will go to commercial this is very water intensive and we are in let's move on to the next one uh followup and administrative issues number 21 consideration of and possible action on matters discussed in executive there is nothing because we had no executive consideration of approving various board nominations by Council and designated council members animal shelter advisory committee Linda marceli smd3 to a first full term water uh water first term January 216 B Construction Board of Tanner ker mayor to an unexpired term February 215 C public Arts commission Cynthia Lackey mayor to a first full term anybody want to give me a motion so move second do have a motion and a second further consideration audience participation all in favor please say I I any oppose nay announcements and consideration of

[5:25:00] future agenda items start with you Rodney uh a couple of things one I would like to know where we're at on the sign ordinance the that that this is like one of the first things I did seven or eight months ago and we haven't gotten this back yet does anybody know I was told it was illegal you completed the uh ordinance that was requested okay and provided it to the department so so which department is that the planning and that might have been let's get planning to bring it to us to this next meeting uh has please okay you asked about the sign ordinance right it might have been with the prior um young man that was here yeah I I haven't seen it but but we will we will uh take up the issue of the sign ordinance and certainly bring back some recommendations for for the council I think we were all in favor of this this was a pretty easy deal and it's and yet it's still taking seven months right I think we work with Jeff and uh then he's gone to Minnesota as long as we can get in on the next meeting I'll be happy thank you okay so to speak uh the lake lots we had I I was told not to talk about this upstairs but I want to talk about it out in the open meeting we need to to finalize that we need to we're going to follow up with them on that we will okay let's try to get that done okay thank you that's it Marty um I'll hold on it it's man it's late Johnny I'll just quickly read my notes dogs on flatbed trucks standing on hot tool boxes ordinance that come from an animal lover okay Johnny we did check on that there is nothing on state law that prohibits it so if you want to do something it have to be in a local ordinance okay local ordinance Charlotte yes I've got five items here not all of them are agenda items but I have received numerous phone calls from business

[5:27:03] owners on Sherwood Way from all the way from HB all the way out pass uh Sam's asking if the speed limit could be lowered to 35 mph I told him I would bring it up and ask traffic to look into it and get back to me if we need to talk about it at Council or to see what we can do about the speed limit out there the other item I wanted to see where we are with reference to the cemetery plans uh the folks have told me that it's uh in legal and they'd like to know when they can proceed they've afraid they've lost their contractor and they really need to know where we are actually um Maxwell branam is reviewing um the responses to the contract that we provided to the the contractor with them by conference call today and David knp so he met with David nap yesterday and we were just waiting for the responses of the uh Contracting party very good and I would like for uh streets uh to look into our various shopping centers where businesses are large speed traffic areas such as nickach uh the Southwest Plaza shopping center the turns the curbs are not painted with any kind of Distinction it's where you can turn to get off fast speed traffic I don't know if that's the city's responsibility the state's responsibility or The Shopping Center's responsibility to Mark those curbs so fast moving track traffic can better see where those uh Ingress and egress areas are uh the other item Sunset across Sherwood Way I had asked a few years ago that more markers dividers could be placed out there nice shiny because the traffic is so congested so heavy and very fast right there that there's just not enough distinction as to what Lane is a turn lane and what's not at that particular intersection and the next thing I'd like to talk about is bus routes I did visit uh and ask that

[5:29:06] Cog put it on their agenda to keep a promise that we had made uh to the P Pentagon I'll get it all spit out here in just a minute the Pentagon that we would look into the bus routes for the military around town I have received those bus routes and I would like for uh no or streets and whatnot if we could kind of look at that before the next Cog meeting next month to maybe make some recommendations to changing up that route just a little bit if that's all right okay I'm done Don um I don't know if we needed an executive session or regular but I'd like an update on uh the status of our our streets um as far as uh the contractor that didn't do whatever he was supposed to do or not do I would I would recommend executive session on that and um I'm sure Shane and I can um give you the and Carl can give you the status okay Miss grad uh just two things um I would like to for us to work toward having uh meetings that are a little more brief perhaps I speak more than Mr wardlaw did I'll work on that um I don't know if that has to do with uh condensing the lunch hour maybe not having one maybe just having a a big snack um also um watching the speaker time at the podium that's not necessarily a time for engagement but public hearing and um I appreciate the management that you do mayor but I think we could probably watch that a little bit more and just presenters um I know I need to get back to the office some of you might but more importantly the audience can't stay here an entire day so I really think for for them being able to come to a meeting get their business done and get back to their lives that's important I agree here here hey can I can I say one more thing no I know I

[5:31:11] know winky wasn't here but actually I want to thank winky for actually stepping up to do the job I know that a lot of people weren't happy with him but he did step up to do the job and this job unless you have done it you do not know how hard this job is and for him you know I applaud him for doing that for stepping up and doing a job that no one once and uh I I am I'm I just I'm sad that he's gone he and I dis on a lot of things but I I agreed with him on a whole lot of things a l in every word I said about him today and and I really I really want to thank him for being here for this last year and I'm glad that he was here we do have a planning work session what what do you have on that Bo that is the retreat I was talking about what I like to do hopefully is within the next two weeks before their next city council meeting is to do a full day Retreat um I'm suggesting that we do it take it out of town to do that but uh I'm going to need your hopefully your commitment for the whole day from 9:00 in the morning prob by 4:00 in the afternoon so I want you to look at your your agendas and let us know uh what day would be best for you I can to get Becky to send y'all some dates and we can get that confirmed can we possibly do it on Saturday we can uh I want you to keep in mind that we do have a a three-day holiday that's coming up uh we can do it on on a weekday we can do it on a weekend it just depends on what y'all would prefer okay so have Becky send some dates out we'll pick one okay what did you say Charlotte motion to ajour all in favor say I I this meeting's over thank you and I'm on

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=KMvVP8uVbUY