San Angelo City Council 11-20-18

[0:00:00] everyone has the turkey in the oven almost and ready to celebrate a great Thanksgiving so thank you for being here with us this morning if everyone would remember to please put your phones on silent we would appreciate it we are going to start off today different than what we have been doing and we were going to have a prayer offered by our chaplain please bow your heads and pray with me father God we give you so much thanks this week father thank you for another time of holidays and celebration Lord that we're coming into you father I pray this morning that your favor and your protecting hand be upon everyone on the City Council everyone here from the City Attorney's Office and their staff Lord from the city manager's office God you know what an incredible burden it is to be responsible for such a large city father we're thankful for these servants and their hearts to come before you today to come before the city and the citizens they represent Lord and make hard decisions god I pray that your support would be upon them I pray that the support of all of our city and citizens would be upon them Lord God give them peace and comfort and I pray that you also give them wisdom father you are the same wisdom that you gave solemn and Lord for making decisions I pray that she would give each one of these members on our council Lord the strength of David to stand up to the to the big problems and the big challenges god when no one else will father I pray for all of our families in our community that have been touched by tragedy in the last two weeks I pray that that cycle would end over this holiday season more so for everyone in our community that has something to celebrate god I pray that they would give you thanks and for everyone who's hurting or morning this week Lord I would also pray that they would seek out your face father we ask that your your will would be the point in the agenda for today God protect our firefighters and first responders that are having to work this week Lord we ask that you protect the four sons from Santangelo that are on their way back

[0:02:02] from California fires right now Lord get them home safe to his father we pray this and we just give you so much glory and honor God your ways are so much higher than and your thoughts are so much higher than ours we pray this in Jesus name Amen we are lucky today to have Jeremiah Tackett here to help us do the pledges he is a seventh grader at TLC a and he is the son of Sarah Tackett so thank you for being here this morning shall we turn around if everyone will please be seated we will start with our proclamations and the first one that we have today is a proclamation of November 24 2018 a small business Saturday this is when we say shop local support live will give give local and thank you for being here and supporting this community by shopping in San Angelo the government of San Angelo Texas celebrates our local small businesses and the contributions they make to our local economy and community according to the United States Small Business Administration there are

[0:04:06] currently 30 point 2 million small businesses in the United States they represent ninety nine point seven percent of all businesses with employees in the United States and are responsible for 65 point nine percent of net new jobs created from 2000 to 2017 do we have anyone in the audience today to accept this proclamation I'll continue small businesses employ forty seven point five percent of the employees in the private sector in the United States ninety percent of the consumers in the United States say Small Business Saturday has had a positive impact on the community eighty nine percent of consumers who are aware of Small Business Saturday said the day encourages them to shop small all year long 73% of the consumers who reportedly shopped small at independently owned retailers and restaurants on Small Business Saturday did so with friends or family the most reported reason for consumers aware of the data shop and dine at small independently owned businesses was to support their community sign Angela supports our local businesses that create jobs boost our local economy and preserve our communities advocacy groups as well as public and private organizations across the country have endorsed the Saturday after Thanksgiving a Small Business Saturday therefore i brenda gunther mayor of the city of san angelo texas on behalf of the city council do hereby proclaim saturday november 24th 2018 as Small Business Saturday and urged the residents of our community and communities across the country to support small businesses and merchants on Small Business Saturday and throughout the year our second Proclamation believe would you like to come forward is December 1 2018 as concho Christmas celebration Day 2018 marks a 25th anniversary the San Angelo

[0:06:09] concho Christmas celebrations annual tour of Lights the celebration with over 3 million lights is one of the largest Christmas lighting events in the state of Texas the event offers a 2.5 mile walking or driving tour beginning behind the main post office on the corner of Abe Street and 1st Street and ending in El Paseo de Santa Angela those involved consists of hundreds of community volunteers who greet tour guests inmates from the Department of constructions of Corrections who assist with installation of Christmas scenes the San Angelo Restaurant Association who supply meals to the inmates and the RSVP volunteers who deliver the inmates meals the community Christmas tree lighting ceremony will be held Saturday December 1st 2018 of 5:15 p.m. at the corner of South Chadbourne and West concho Avenue activities will include this in Angell Community Band conducted by dr. Constance Kelly evangelist state university and the twin Mountain townsmen directed by Mark Clark the community tree lighting will be followed by the 17th annual lights of Christmas parade at 6 p.m. which may be viewed on Chadbourne between 2nd Street and concho Avenue on concho Avenue between Chadbourne and oaks on oaks back to 2nd Street the tour lights can be seen Sunday through Thursday from 6 p.m. to 10 p.m. and each Friday and Saturday from 6 p.m. to 12 midnight December 1st through December 31st 2018 therefore I Brenda Gunter mayor of the city of San Angelo Texas on behalf of the city council do hereby proclaim Saturday December 1st 2018 as concho Christmas celebration day and encourage citizens to join the activities and view the magnificent holiday lights that have become a community treasure different weekend right that's because we're on

[0:08:11] our 25th ban that's our 25th year and we decided to run it for the entire year so we backed up and gave Bobby a free pass for his weekend so we don't confuse him with a lot of parking fantastic thank you trying to coordinate thank you thank you let's get a picture let me say a couple things it's a great honor for me to accept this community recognition for the hundreds of the tens of thousands of happy smiles and warm hearts that are generated by the by the sick four to six hundred volunteers that help each year to put on contrl christmas celebration we've been doing this for 25 years as we said it's and this year the privately funded Tour of Lights will be our Silver Anniversary event and it's going to be the best ever and we'd like to invite the entire community to come down and join us along show Avenue on the concho River to celebrate our silver anniversary and a lot of sub incidentally about 25% of the people we have about 75,000 people go through the Tour of Lights each year and between 25 and 30 percent of them are out-of-town guests based on the surveys we get and I really think could be hiring that simply because they don't fill out the certain people don't fill out the survey because they don't feel like they're gonna be here to collect a thousand dollar reward [Applause] we will now open the meeting up for

[0:10:28] public comment and the first thing I'd like to say today is sulfur draw is open the barricades are gone you can actually drive and not take a detour so thank you for all the city staff for meeting those making sure the contractor met those deadlines and that we've got the street open for this holiday season though so thank you very much for that like that add to that yes yeah the boxes the Christmas boxes that are going to be over off of Paseo will be open just in time that now I'm gonna reiterate that thank you all for the staff for meeting those requirements of getting it done before that that time issues are items that are not on the agenda may be raised by the public at this time citizens should speak from the podium begin by stating their name and limit remarks to less than three minutes council members may request a discussed item be placed on a future agenda the council takes public comment on all regular agenda items during the discussion of those items do I have anyone in the audience who would offer some public comment at this point Steve come on up Thank You council thank you very much I just wanted to bring out a few points I was not able to attend last time we noticed your apps I watched it on TV and it was boring I just wanted to bring up a couple of points the the lakes are full after record rains and that needs to be needs to be noted I think the faith and diligence of our churches in the area I have brought a miracle and I want to I want to commend them for it the and and I was in the

[0:12:36] polls working the polls last time as well and I wasn't here and and the electorate shown their colors also in that the bonds failed and and it shows that there's a desire on the public to hold hold back that governments ought to be aware that they're citizens of are are hurting and unhappy if you do not heed their their vote I have I I know that it's hard I know that it's hard to say no there's a lot of need and a lot of things that have been passed over but we can only do so much at a given time and so I would like you to just keep that in mind as you go throughout the actions of that you're enlisted in thank you thank you Steve further public comment good morning I'm Michele babish and we just wanted to come in this morning and really just thank the city and the staff everyone has been so just so wonderful so supportive and I would name names but I'll forget a whole bunch so I'm not going to but everybody I mean we've just we've had questions we've had needs and the city has been so great to just be there every step of the way and our project is about I don't know half or three quarters of the way done and we couldn't have done it without everybody at the city thank you thank you and I would say thank you to you and your husband because that was a major project to take on and you dove right in I mean from the day that you bought it you started work on it so you were ready to go and it has on a daily basis changed and improved that area it looks terrific so people on doing the great work thank

[0:14:40] you for their public comment err mr. city manager council assistant fire chief Todd Sanford I just like to update you a little bit on our firefighters that went to California it happened real quick it was a holiday weekend so not everybody at Council and the public knew what was going on but a little over a week ago Sunday morning at 6:30 in the morning I got a call asking if we would be willing to send our new tifus firetruck in our firefighters to California to help fight the wildfires out in California so we started working that that morning we worked about 11 hours that day getting the crews ready doing paperwork they finally called us late that night and said that it was a go so we sent them they left at about nine o'clock Monday morning drove got to California and they went to the woolsley fire Southern California did mop up a lot of public communications safety type stuff working with the citizens that had lost everything up there and talking I talked to these gentlemen daily they were working 24-hour shifts they're exhausted but I think they've been really blessed from the situation and I know that what we did was the right thing to do I want to tell the public how this how this works the tempest fire truck was a state fire truck that was given to us it did not cost us anything and from two hours prior to our deployment till 24 hours after they were come back to San Angelo it is paid by the state of Texas all expenses so it did not cost the city one penny and we were able to go to California and help people that had lost everything I can't tell you how proud of my firefighters I

[0:16:43] am I received numerous calls from other fire chiefs that are in California with with our guys telling me what wonderful men they were they weren't asked to do something they said what can we do the people up there were were taking pictures with them hugging I'm telling them thank you and so I just want the council to know the program we have in place is unbelievable we're helping other people and it's not costing us anything except some time and a little effort on our part but but what we're doing out there is the right thing to do and I really appreciate y'all for supporting our TIFF most programs supporting us and to the public I just want to say thank you you've you've been praying for my men you're still praying they left Phoenix Arizona this morning have another day and a half drive to get home they're gonna be home by Thanksgiving and that's I'm real thankful for that but I just want to say thank you all for for your support and let the public kind of know how that that process took place thank you we do want to thank the staff who went out there I'm we're certainly blessed in San Angelo not to live with the fires that California is has been devastated by so thank you for the time effort and energy and getting that organized Todd any further public comment with no further public comment we will move into our consent agenda I will start with Tommy do you have anything that you would like to pull from the consent agenda no ma'am Tom no ma'am Carrie okay with pulling items see do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda move to approve is there any public comment with no public comment we will take a vote all in favor say aye with none opposed motion passes 7 0 item C consider approving by board contract number 5 - 4 - 1 7 from paradigm traffic

[0:18:50] systems in Houston Texas in the amount of one hundred ninety seven thousand four hundred budgeted in fiscal year 2019 for the purchase of alpha battery backup systems and authorizing the city manager to execute any related documents carry newest question battery the only thing I have here is it shows 197 four here but in the background of information it it indicates that there's a financial impact of $220,000 so figure out what those two numbers are yes sir the 197 400 is what y'all what council approved at the in the last budget council that's going to be used in dedication for this this project the additional 20,000 you'll see coming up later this afternoon or this morning in the carryover requests there's 20,000 of salary savings that we moved over for the initial battery backup project that we're asking to carry over into that it accumulates that purchase as well since the whole net purchase for this fiscal year will be over that 50,000 mark we're asking for the full full approval thank you I just want the citizens to understand what that was for them so moved to approve is percentage there a second any public comment no public comment we'll take a vote and before we take a vote may I say that the last that the consent agenda was not approved by seven zero because there's only six of us here and so the motion was approved six zero so thank you for that all right on item C I have a motion a second no public comment we'll take a vote all in favor any opposed motion passes 6 0 move into the regular agenda item item 7 item a first reading and public hearing of an ordinance

[0:20:51] approving case pd-1 803 a rezoning from the single-family residence rs1 and general commercial zoning districts to the planned development PD zoning district to allow for uses permitted in the general commercial CG zoning district with the principal use of Kemp ground recreational vehicle park being sixteen point three six acres located to the north and northwest of the lake nasa worthy addition group fisherman's road residential subdivision and the presentations by john james thank you john james director and development services this is the Spring Creek area and you can see the boundary it includes not only if you're familiar with the lease out there the lease for the RV park is is something like this but we've gone out to the water's edge to include that area as well to incorporate some of the other activities that are happening there also the basics of what we're doing here is you can see the general commercial here in pink does not encompass all of that area so one thing we're doing is expanding that boundary to include all of the area within which commercial type activities are occurring as you can see here the yellow zoning there is single-family residential so some of the things that are part of existing leases out there actually aren't allowed under the zoning so this cleans that up to allow those uses the other thing it does is ensures that all of the things that are within those leases are allowed under the zoning some of which may not always be allowed in the general commercial and that's the reason for the plan development so that we could specifically list out those uses that are occurring out there now as well as anticipating some of the future uses that have been discussed for that area if those lease terms change again this this zoning won't it will only allow those things to happen under the zoning

[0:22:58] on the property as the owner of the property the city and you all ultimately can still control through the lease what can and can't happen on their own so it it really takes both just because you adopt a zoning ordinance that allows certain uses on the property the lease would still have to allow those as well so you kind of have two opportunities to say yes or no to things but if there are things in the future that you would like to see on the property even if you include it in the lease they still can't operate those on the property without it also being in a zoning just a few pictures of the area in case there are questions you're probably familiar with the the uses out there largely the RV park that's out there as well as the Thule princess and this incorporates that use as well I won't read through all of these they're in your background information but basically the staff is recommending approval of this it does come with the city working with the parks department as the applicant and the Planning Commission also you please read those out loud because the public doesn't always go in and sure get them sure this the area does have a future land use of open space and so this that does allow for the types of recreational activities that would happen on the on the property the proposed development in the area is consistent with this planned development it does have mixed uses but it's largely recreational as the the the document of the PD indicates any of those other type of commercial uses have to be basically secondary and accessory to the recreational uses out like what well the the small store for example can basically serve the recreational needs out there but but someone couldn't go in and put in a Walmart for example so it has to be related to those recreational uses like things that you would typically find with an RV park or it's not money put a liquor store there

[0:25:05] liquor store is a little different because there's also alcohol rules so we'd have to look because there are some separations from you can't have a liquor store within a certain distance of residential I'm not sure how this area lays out in relation to that as far as the PD is concerned I think you could again if it was small-scale and oriented to the recreational users out there but you could sell bait for example right right and I think the idea is that it would be small-scale commercial that could reasonably be assumed to be accessory or secondary to those principal recreational uses and some of those are really on a case-by-case basis we see no anticipated permanent effects on the environment the current uses are reflective the commercial and recreational activities that are already out there and it is compatible with the surrounding park uses as I said we've worked with the parks department to ensure not only is this consistent with the lease but also with the things that Parks has envisioned for that area would it allow someone to hire a band and put on a concert with this change well that's a good question the as you may have noticed in the language one of the things that was requested by one of the potential lease holders and that area is to allow for a performance stage so the short answer is yes this would allow that I think that's that's come up as a question is that something we would like to see out there one option for you to consider is you could take that out of the plan development and any future performance type things could be done through a special event permit that would be for a one-time you know each time would be a one-time consideration from the council and you could approve any conditions at that time that you wanted but again as this is currently worded a performance stages for a

[0:27:07] concert venue would be allowed under this PD unless you strike that provision so the single-family residence that are right there might have a problem with a lot of people coming in for a concert correct yeah absolutely and as I said we've heard some recent concerns raised about that particular issue that performance stage item in the plan development was requested by the one of the potential lease holders who would like to do that in that area but again that's really up to you all either in terms of allowing it or not allowing it in the plan development it's not currently as I understand it allowed under the lease so that would you would also have an opportunity there in future releases to either allow or disallow it and as I mentioned a special event permit could allow it or disallow so there's two issues there's one in terms of what we're is the rezoning but then there's also language and the lease does the lease document support this rezoning document what are the differences between the two that would be quite confusing everything that's happening now under the leases is would be allowed under the plan development that was part of the idea of bringing this forward just to make sure those were compatible performance stages currently allowed under the lease is that you know everything that's allowed in the lease would be allowed under the plan development there are additional things like the performance stage that would be additional to that I think you're right I think their basement problems out there I know we had some issues this summer so I think we need to yes operating marina Bates tan general food supply type store including the sale of beer is allowed by law camera hook-up facilities in park area and uses incidental thereto now when I look at this it's that incidental thereto

[0:29:10] language that gives me pause that's where there's room to argue that you know some sort of performance might be allowed or might not be allowed I'd also like to point out that though we owned the property today zoning will extend beyond any lease so if at some point in time we decide to sell to the property owner that zoning provision will still be in place and we won't have the same ability to control it we did have a concert that wanted to go out there this past summer and they did not go through the special events process but even if they had there were some concerns that were expressed by the police department particularly regarding one noise to eliminate parking and also access for emergency vehicles out there so I guess it would be my preference that we allow those confidents to happen out there through the special events process so that everybody can clearly look at what's proposed and then offer suggestions on how to make it safe for the public so what you're saying to us is based off of this the language in the rezoning document and the language in the lease would make it clear that without a special events permit no concert could be held is that correct well there wouldn't be a venue developed for a concert so any concert would have to come through us for some other kind of approval and are the single family residents aware that for example a beer store would be allowed to be opened out there or is it currently allowed I mean or is there one already in business in this area I don't believe there's one currently Carl's nodding no but this would allow one I think they sell beer in the little store think it's been a long time since I've been in there but I think it one time they sell being it yeah yeah just this morning we're not sure we believe you have it go ahead

[0:31:21] yeah they sell beer in that small store there so okay continue I'm uh skipped ahead okay here we go so we did send out our notifications to the surrounding property owners you can you can see here that it it's far enough away that it didn't quite touch the homeowners so those did those homeowners adjacent did not get a notification because they're outside the 200-foot notification area but wouldn't we be concerned that they would be concerned we we might again we with just to step back a little bit of history in the past we have tried to identify areas like that where we thought there might be some concerned neighbors and so we over notified we notified people that weren't legally required to be notified we it was a previous council but a previous council gave us direction no we don't want you deciding who should and shouldn't get notices you should just be sending out notices to those legally required to notices and so since that time that's what we've done that's been our direction wouldn't we be concerned just thinking that some of this is owned by one person but least to somebody else so the notification isn't going to the person who's actually live I mean owning the proper or the maybe it went to the person who owns it but doesn't live there is there any confusion or concern about that area owned versus leased versus rented versus whatever brick you want to say something well I was just saying usually we send out to property owners and it's they can lease but typically we're concerned about affecting land values those kind of things and the property owner normally we don't notify renters and again in the past we have done that in a couple of

[0:33:25] cases where a particular rezoning was affecting an apartment complex for example and we attempted to notify not only the owner of the apartment complex but individual you know apartment renters but again our direction for the last couple of years has been only notified those who are legally required to get notification so that there's no you know picking choosing on our and that's something obviously you all could give us different direction but right now our policy is to only notify those property owners legally required to get notice okay as I mentioned staff does recommend approval of the rezoning to plan development has did the Planning Commission there are seven conditions of approval site plan would be required for any future development this is the list of those accessory uses and you can see those there retail sales and service parking offices caretakers quarters restrooms shower and laundry guest amenities recreational rentals sewer stations fuel sales waste and recycling station trailer storage and in the stage I think that's the one that was in question earlier and based on the the discussion and the City Attorney's recommendation probably the best thing for the PD is just to simply eliminate that the ordinance then you can deal with stage and performance events through that special event permit but that would need to be a part of the motion if that's your direction there is a requirement that any campground RV park must be at least 200 feet from residential properties so we did try to address the consensual concerns of those neighbors right now the RV park is well more than 200 feet from those homes is there a fence that divides the RV park from the residential properties I don't believe the RV park has a fence a small green space there right there's a green space and there's some trees some of the homes may have privacy fences themselves I'm not sure but there is there's no

[0:35:29] requirement and as least as this is worded there would be no requirement but again with the 200 feet separation we typically wouldn't have any sort of fencing or screening but this PD was written in a way that it could be expanded in the future so if we know there's some interest in expanding the RV park this is in there to ensure that if the RV park does expand in the future they will still maintain at least 200 feet from those residences this indicates that camper Road which is the primary access to the area would be maintained by the city unless that's amended under the lease so we basically defer it to the lease requirements if if through the lease you want to pass that obligation to maintain that road on to the lessee then you would have the ability to do that in the future the existing improvements will be maintained in the current condition new improvements must comply with ordinance development standards at that time basically what that means is the current layout of the RV park does not meet our current RV park standards that'll be allowed to stay as is if they expand the point is the difference the streets are too narrow the spaces for the RVs don't have the space that we would require today in terms of width and depth the roads aren't paved our current RV park standards require that the roads be paved and so any expansion of the park in the future would have to meet all of those top of standards but they wouldn't have to basically go back and upgrade the existing part of the park because this is a unique area and signage doesn't necessarily meet the requirements of our sign ordinance we put in a provision that would allow them to create a signage plan that could be reviewed and approved without having to go through variances and other processes through the boards or commissions the maximum say provisions

[0:37:32] no more than six months within a 12-month period no permanent living allowed on this in the RV park except for the onsite manager 15 percent of the spaces would be exempt from that time restraint but relocating from one space to another doesn't count for restarting your time you actually would have to leave enforces that Park actually I'm not sure I think it would follow the code enforcement if we received complaints about they know too long I believe our RV park ordinance requires the manager of an RV park to keep a log of who's when a new RV comes in when they leave and so we have the ability to inspect that log if they're not keeping that log then we could pursue enforcement action against the RV park the last time we checked that love really don't check it we usually do it goes on a complaint basis so I recall it happening one time years ago when we were having a lot of oil than the allowed time so we at that time we sent in to look so really it's it's not something we check on a regular basis unless we receive complaints that's that's kind of the overview of the conditions so with that I'm gonna let you start with your questions well I think most of them I think the way to deal with this performance stage issues as the city attorney suggested through special events permanent because it also occurs to me that there could be some other things out there that might not necessarily be music related but could be rather large gatherings of people that would generate the same amount of traffic and concerns that the police department had during the summer when they were thinking of having a performance out there so I think you know I'm gonna support removal of the performance stage striking that

[0:39:34] entirely and then having that dealt with through a special events permeate John but I'm always looking go back one slide may be created oh it was the the 200 feet so talked through that one more time they're gonna have to maintain the 200 foot separation from the folks that live over on Sleepy Hollow there which is that that are correct so no part of the campground or RV park could get any closer than 200 feet to those homes okay and then there then is there requirements that we currently have that they would have to do right up to that 200 feet in terms of any kind of separation barrier not that I'm aware of okay okay it anywhere else when we have the 200 foot barrier that we need to consider here generally when there's commercial zoning right next to residential there is a requirement to screen from the residential again in this case because normally we don't have the 200 foot buffer and so in this case we we believe that the 200 foot buffer was sufficient to serve that purpose normally we would only require that type of screening or fencing where the commercial use directly abuts the homes do we know who controls that does the city control that green space is that something that we control or doesn't Alessi is that part of well do we know I believe we control that if go back to that map I believe the the lease area I think it's

[0:41:38] this little black line you can see here and then roughly parallel with that zoning and so the whole area is is owned by the city and so this area in here is kind of the green space that would be controlled by the city now that could always be expanded to be included in the lease area but ultimately we would have control either as the property owner or control over the lease and say as long as we control that that doesn't create as much concern for me that way you know they're not gonna be intruding into that green space area unless we specifically allow it so for right now mayor that's the only questions that I have Tom did you have any questions for John on this Carrie Lucy and Lane all right Tommy would you like to make a motion yes ma'am I'll make a motion that we approve as presented with the specific striking of the performance stage and that any events out there be dealt with through the special events permit process Harry seconds.that do we have any public comment Steve Hampton I have a question you asked about the people 200 feet away but that has that Lake has a quite an active HOA organization out there that we are going to be negotiating with soon it looks like and I think they ought to be involved since this is all part of their property property their area and this this is all leased property is it not yes the as I mentioned this the lease area is roughly something like that then there's some other lease activities like the the boat rentals that happens somewhere over here but yes it's all

[0:43:41] owned by the city and most of the area within the PD is subject to release which basically means even though we're trying to match up what currently happens with this rezoning the activities as they are have been there yes yes and they're they're building a sizeable operation on property that's not theirs how long is the lease and what do you mean a sizeable well I they keep adding and adding and I just it seems to me like they're growing a large operation and it seems like the value of the property should be increasing and and those kind of things John is there anything in the lease that prohibits or controls the amount of quote permanent buildings that are added to this property or are we aware of because obviously if they were building a building they would have to go through the permits Department to do anything to it so you would have to be aware of any quote adding on or substantial increasing in the square footage right and I'm not familiar enough with the lease to know if there's any limit on the number of permanent buildings but you're right they would need to get permits and we would check those kinds of things I would guess that the lease does not limit permanent buildings but I don't know that mayor yes Tommy we're not dealing with the lease we're only dealing with the zoning change the the proprietor after the lessee does have I went out then talked to him at some length this summer he does have a desire to expand his use for his RV process leasing and so forth to my knowledge Heaton he may have different

[0:45:45] plans but he did not mention any permanent structures that he was going to be building out there it was just the the recreational vehicle use expansion if I could add one thing on that we we purposefully drew these boundaries as we did not to include that expansion area where they want to expand we would be out in this direction that is correct they would have to come back to you to get an amendment to this plan development to expand into that area in any case yes Teresa did you want to add something to that conversation yes that does require permission of parks director for any construction on the property so we but then all those buildings become ours at the end of the lease okay thank you for that clarification any further public comment we're gonna take a the lease expires October 31st 2035 any further public comment with no further public comment we would take a vote all in support of the item a please say aye are there any opposed with none opposed item a passes 6 0 item B first reading a public hearing of an ordinance amending chapter 11 article 11 0.03 of the scenario Code of Ordinances including adopting stormwater quality provisions and we have Shannon here this morning good morning as you mentioned today we're doing the first reading of proposed storm water quality ordinance this basically the the proposal of this ordinance gets us back or gets us up to compliance with current permit requirements through the federal and state governments per state and federal regulations all traditional you'll hear me say Ms fors I'm going to explain that right quick

[0:47:47] it's a municipal separate storm sewer system so essentially that means storm water drains and a big majority of our stormwater drains are actually our curb and gutter our streets so all all municipal separate storm sewer systems are required to implement ordinances or legal authority to address illicit discharges and other non storm storm water related discharges as I mentioned our current storm water quality ordinances do not address illicit discharges there's nothing implementing for spill response and other non storm water related discharges our proposed ordinance is the bare minimum requirements that the state and federal government require us to implement and our legal authority with one exception that will be later implement first off it's good to understand what an illicit discharge is it's a discharge that essentially is not comprised solely of stormwater illicit discharges often happen during non rain events which is kind of a little bit confusing when you implement that in your stormwater regulation but that is a requirement so a lot of times for example this picture here is a fuel spill that recently happened along the red Arroyo and we had to implement some BMPs best management practices to prevent stormwater quality issues down downstream because of this fuel spill there are certain authorized discharges that are did that are authorized through state and federal permits and there are some non incidental discharges such as car washing and things like that that are excluded from this regulation during this process we we first have introduced the you know kind of a big thick document to address all these discharges at a development task force meeting in that development task force meeting we requested stakeholders and people of

[0:49:53] interest to join a subcommittee to help us develop an ordinance that not only meets what the city is required to do but also doesn't overreach on the regulatory side the subcommittee was of a lot of environmental experts water quality experts developers and engineers we held eight subcommittee meetings from May until November during those meetings we addressed 50 subcommittee comments and basically started whittling away at the large document that was first presented and the development task force meeting during that time we removed several industry specific standards such as pesticides used oil things like that indus industrial regulation and then we had a final proposal meeting at last week's development taskforce meeting with the same group of people i'm going to go over an overview of kind of what the additions are and what the modifications were that that we came to the final agreement with the general prohibition section allows the city to respond and address to illicit discharges as previously mentioned that fuel spill was an illicit discharge it was a spill this regulation is applicable not only to industrial facilities but commercial businesses the general public and construction activities this allows the city to inspect and remediate discharges and then offers us the ability to have an enforcement process if we have a difficult time breaching compliance with those discharges the illicit discharge section allows the city to respond and address hazardous spills this one is a big one that we've been recently impacted by in the last year I'd like to mention that last year the city departments spent over $8,000 and responding to spills that were not the city's fault that we just had we had to do something to

[0:51:56] protect our asset which is our streets this requires that those people that do that discharge basically clean up after themselves and they properly remediate the issues so that there's no potential contamination to surface waters or ground waters this also allows the reimbursement of city expenses if we do respond to spills which we don't have currently and then finally compliance options the construction section which already exists was just modified to basically get a lot of terminology out of the way and offer one little extra side that does exceed state federal regulation which is less than an anchor sites basically we included them on ours too to just meet their same requirements that those that are over an acre are required to do as far as controlling the sediment from their site this also allows the citation of subcontractors for stormwater violations this was actually proposed by the committee members the development community because a lot of times we go out and right now we're only able to cite the primary operator of the site rather than a subcontractor that may have caused the issue and then finally it removes the requirement for the submit all of your stormwater pollution prevention plan which is what that swip is during the development process we realized that that was a really necessary requirement that they do that because essentially we use that pollution prevention plan out in the field and we make sure that whatever's out in the field is whatever's written down on that plan so that was an unnecessary unnecessary requirement for the development community and in conclusion we're recommending that this ordinance be approved as is as we are just solely doing the bare minimum requirements to get us up to state and federal compliance thank you start with lane do you have questions Lane members here

[0:54:04] that were involved in this I want to know mostly pertaining to these small construction sites the effectiveness of it is it going to really make a difference compared to the cost analysis of what you're implementing so if you're over an acre which most the majority of our construction activities are over an acre which means regardless of what the city implements their state and federal regulation that requires to do this this and this for under an acre the only thing that we're requiring is that erosion control measures be put on site and essentially yes that is very effective because if we don't write a it's unfair because you're not being across the board for construction activities B if we don't require them to do that and a discharge occurs and it's quite a bit of setting you know you could get quite a bit of sediment runoff from an less than an acre construction site the city would be tasked with maintaining that and ensuring that that gets cleaned oh and my second question is how small of a construction project are you considering a small construction project a new home bill on a quarter acre or is that also including in addition to an existing property well there's different definitions so just stop me if I'm if I get a little off key construction is soil disturbance activity so if you have a one acre lot but you're only disturbing a quarter of that for your deal that's that's the construction site activity now for your for your example it depends and the reason being is because if you have a subdivision that exceeds an acre it's part of a common plan of development and a common plan of development essentially means that there's lots of construction related activity going on in one central location and as long as they're within a quarter of a mile of each other they're all included in that one plan so if a

[0:56:09] homeowner wants to add on to their existing home just a small addition soil disturbance on concrete work is that going to deem them to have to put a skirting around their property essentially there there are so many cost effective measures for erosion control a lot of times with something like that as long as they have a lawn established or some sort of landscaping there's no need for them to put up a silt fence so they're there there are lots of different options first for situations like that and honestly we wouldn't be aware of that situation for the most part because most of those smaller acreage construction sites are based on complaints and the homeowner ones at least you have a section here for enforcement and penalties that would be going mostly on to our code enforcement team or would that gothe enforcement through stormwater is this for construction anything anything that would all go through stormwater and we'll we'll set up those standard operating procedures and provisions that will be provided in the next in the next reading Harry just real quick Shannen 2020 we're gonna take the official census which will put us over 100 thousand there will be some differences in stormwater reporting and other issues after that is that correct not necessarily so 2020 is when the you when the current census comes out but our permit actually renews this December and so since it renews this December in 2018 we're actually not required to implement those population requirements until the next permit term which would be five years from 2018 I'm hearing we're concerned about getting up to a minimum standard

[0:58:15] that even the state imposes what are some of those instances where there's a spill that we would have to go clean up that's not our responsibility give me some examples we have several real-life examples and I'm gonna whoops I'm gonna flip back to that picture just to give you a visual this one for example was one that we had to respond to and I'd like to implement that or I'd like to mention that our fire department plays a huge role in that spill response we've gotten to where initially we let them handle it but as we started auditing our stormwater management plan and kind of seeing what we were required to do we learned that we really needed to be keeping track of those things and and finding different ways to to basically to prevent that mitigate that issue so this discharge happened at a gas station along the red area the gas station attendant had no idea what she needed to do to fix that situation we were made aware of it the fire department responded and then we deployed our operations folks to come out there and essentially clean it up mitigate it to where it doesn't get to the surface waters another example was a grease spill that happened at a restaurant that got into the city streets it not only caused an issue with storm water quality or the propensity to but it also called a cause Public Safety so these these types of spills and it's situations are also public safety and health concerns as well and so in that in that example we had to deploy sand trucks because at the time that was all we had that's the cheapest thing it's not the most viable it's not the best measure which is another reason why we want to have these so that all that money that we spend on that we're able to get that money back because in those two examples where we weren't right so there are some essentially allowable discharges depending on what it's mixed

[1:00:20] with is what causes the issue so a lot of people as long as they're just power washing their parking lots with a power washer that's got water in it there's there's not going to be an issue with that because you just can't that's just like vehicle washing you know normal vehicle washing that's something that that's not going to be deemed a compliance issue what our problems are are whenever they take a D a detergent and they power wash with some type of detergent they also use really really hot water to do that it's right next to the river and it directly discharges in the river that's that's where the the fear is so just normal cosmetic cleaning that's not mixed with detergents would not would not be an issue one one last question um this is bringing us up to the minimum state and federal what if we don't do that what if we say now wait so you know that question is has come up because for eight years we we should have had these ordinances and for eight years we've not had an issue with it other than all the money we've spent not being reimbursed for our response and be the state has a pretty hefty fine of thirty seven thousand five hundred dollars a day per violation so if it ever got to that point that that's what the outcome would be and we've and essentially I don't know I wouldn't here ten years ago but the way enforcement and permit compliance works is even if twelve years ago we got a violation that sent us to enforcement if we were to get a violation that also kind of commingled ten years later around the same kind of violation then that would be a heftier fine yes Tom tell me about like a fuel spill from a car accident fuel spills from car accidents are those little discharges that were not too concerned

[1:02:23] about now that being said the fire department does put absorbin out to get that absorbent on the absorbent they use attracts those hydrocarbons and basically they sweep it up clean it up and it's not an issue all right so my questions so number one how often do we sweep the streets we sweep the streets quarterly by district and since and you read through this document you read a lot of very heavy-handed bureaucratic demands including I know I when I drove from my home over here today and I looked at what was in the streets and I'm going things to me like we needed a street sweeper out here six weeks ago so if the city is not taking care of the streets and sweeping them on a regular basis I would think city would be mostly at fault for not taking care of the streets because there's a lot of trash in the streets well a lot of the trash comes from everybody I mean it's not just the city there's the you know municipal solid waste people throw on their cups outside people blow in they're gluten grass clippings into the curb and gutter everybody plays a role in that and I'm not exerting or I'm not taking responsibility away from our street sweeping program we have six street sweepers on average four of them are working at the same time we have a program but those operations guys are often redirected to do other tasks and sometimes we have that schedule in place but sometimes we can't stick to it completely it would be nice if we had the staff dedicated just to street sweeping but unfortunately they're spread thin just like every other department but that's really my concern is here we are being incredibly heavy-handed regardless of who's making us be heavy-handed but I would also say

[1:04:25] for ten years we obviously were not concerned about this document and the legalities that the state and the federal government have insisted that we be no concerns that guess until today so what we're saying is that for eight years we haven't been concerned about large fees been having an impact on us because we haven't chosen to do and acknowledge what the state and the federal government has required is that correct yes ma'am so why now well we did an audit on our program and whenever you we would do a pre whenever a permit renewal is about to occur it's very very common that your regional office come and do a full on audited on the last three years of your permit term at that time it would have been an evident that we did not have these measures in place so one could say that the only thing that you're really concerned about is number one getting the money back that we spend on these illicit discharges because that's what we keep talking about is the great cost that the city has whether it's through the fire department or whichever departments our greatest concern is that we're spending our money to clean up these illicit discharges and we have no way to recoup that money is that correct I would not say that I would say my greatest concern is the public health concern of storm water and illicit discharges and that's could be my opinion but I feel like that's everybody that's behind me that that's gotten this up also of note the importance of falling and leading by example in cleaning up those and not turning a blind eye because I don't know what happened three years ago when this bill would occur I don't know if we kept track of it I wasn't there to do that but that no that's that's not the number one concern the number that's what I keep hearing I understand but I felt like that was repeating what I hear right and that was an important measure too for everybody to understand that it is costing the city money and we don't

[1:06:27] get that accounted for but my member number one concern is the public health and safety concern so how do we know when one of these this one obviously you know because of gas station either reported it or somebody else reported it I believe a citizen reported it and so in many of these cases when you show examples like this how do you go find the person who created the spill if it's part of this is to recoup the money that we spend to clean this up how do we go find the person who's build it well the initially the fire department is usually notified and they respond chief Sanford calls me and I sent I myself go out there or I send someone from storm water to go out there and gather information of what happened in this case it was a malfunctioning cap on their petroleum storage tanks we contacted TCEQ because it did create a sheen on the water they handled the compliance from the petroleum storage tank side and we handled the cleanup from the ms4 side we're asking to put more regulation on the less than one acre site then the government requires yes ma'am and that's why I addressed that with Lane is that the erosion control the erosion that comes out those properties is still impacts our ms4 and so therefore we would ask them to control their site because if they don't then city resources are having to be implemented to clean up after them so we're not concern concerned about the state or federal regulations but now we're concerned about state and federal regulations so much so that we're going to put our own regulations on a one acre site I feel like the 1 acre site is a really small it's a really really small group that we respond to or that we do it's important to understand that we're

[1:08:31] not asking them to do what the state and federal government require those 1 acre more to do which means develop a stormwater pollution per an do inspections actually even be inspected by the city to make sure they're doing those things all we're asking is that their site is contained so that that sediment doesn't minimal sediment leaves the site essentially just control the site now I've offered some examples since to some other people about what those erosion control measures are but that can be as small as just using existing vetted vegetation to prevent that sediment from leaving the site so you just made a comment I'm when a question you said that you're not making you're not requiring that they do what the state or federal requires how do you choose to do that not decide to which ones to follow the state or the federal the state and the federal government only regulate one acre more so the it's up to the municipality if they feel necessary to implement some type of measure for those sites that are under an acre and so our recommendation is to offer those sites to at least implement erosion control to prevent sediment from leaving this site you know in reading through this document a very heavy-handed document that is a document that I think probably has little ability to be managed because it requires the public to manage it because we don't have the staff to do it so there's ordinances here that require tremendous amount of oversight with a few people to do it so I'm saying this half-heartedly but you know we haven't included in there all the people who walk their dogs who discharged all right you're exactly right and that's why in our parks that we have those bags that's part of our stormwater management plan is the is having those bags there for and waste receptacles for that situation now you're exactly right that you know

[1:10:35] it would be so nice to not have to implement or ordinances like this because that would mean everybody just had the mindset to be like oh I should throw my trash in the trash can or I should pick up my dog's waste but unfortunately that's that's not the reality it's a beast that that can never be fully addressed but this is the minimum of what we're trying to do the bare minimum to address what we can to assist that and get our stormwater quality levels back up our stormwater quality levels back up so where are they where should they be and why have they deteriorated currently I believe so they they put these reports out every couple of years they're not fully approved for several years because they have to go through EPA currently we do have an impaired section of the river for dissolved oxygen dissolved oxygen is a direct result of too many nutrients and that's fertilizers chemicals degrading trash degrading yard waste all those types of things so when it rains all the fertilizers we've put on our lawns rush down into sulfur draw or Concha River correct if they're not applied correctly according to the label specs how do you ever envision controlling that I mean really I mean I just we're getting so heavy-handed it is government at its worst well we won't receipt at its worst and yet we have no ability to control 99% of what happens when it happens and so I'm just saying we put these ordinances out there with no of ability to enforce them you couldn't hire enough people to enforce this dog right well we're more looking at the bigger picture the bigger picture not somebody that's fertilizing their yard not somebody that has a little tiny oil drip and their car we're looking at a

[1:12:38] much bigger picture somebody that has ten gallon paint cans that just throws it out into the curb and gutter we're looking at that person we're not looking at someone that applied some fertilizer correctly and watered their lawn and the discharge that comes off of that a lot of the a lot of these situations AR not during rain events so they're they're highly noticeable but it's it's a much larger picture what we're looking at and another thing that needs to be mentioned that will be presented at the second reading is that we're developing an internal standard operating procedure that actually uses the Code of Federal Regulations benchmark trigger trigger areas for certain contaminants so that if it's under that trigger area we're not gonna mess with it if it's over that then we have we have the responsibility to respond wait a minute you just sit on the second reading you're gonna be adding to this well this is an acronym the SOP it's not it's not in addition to the ordinance itself it's an internal standard operating procedure didn't we know about that now before we get to second reading references all of those provisions she's going to put in the operating procedure when those were in the original ordinance document that's when it became that very big document that it's hard to understand and has a lot of technical turn off terminology that really isn't necessary in the enforcement end of it so as we went through these the last meeting that I went to was of the subcommittee it was discussed that instead of putting those in here we would have a separate policy document the kind of outlines for them and for you guys this is how we're enforcing the provisions that are in this ordinance so especially if you look through the definitions you'll see like here's a reference for non allowable non stormwater discharges it's 40 CFR 120 2.26 d2 for b1 we do not want to put that terminology in this ordinance because then you can can't really discerned what it is we're asking you to do because of all of the regulations from the federal government so a lot of that terminology was in that

[1:14:41] initial document that was 98 pages and it was asked to be removed and we did we felt like we found a good common ground it's also important to understand that in our last meeting we did say that anything that is regulatory related in our enforcement process will actually have to be passed through Council so that document would have to be have to go through you guys before we could actually enforce it okay but I go back how do you and maybe I misunderstood you how do you say on second reading we would be adding to the language you can't be do not adding to this language we're at we're adopting a separate policy document and there's no point in adopting a policy document if you guys aren't going to approve the ordinance on first reading so that was actually my suggestion to wait and see what happens at this meeting because if you changed a lot of things and that policy document might change as well so we can have the policy document first and pull this back on regular agenda for second reading if you want to do it that way but it just makes more sense to not develop the policies until we know what you guys are thinking is what I don't want to do is to pass an Obamacare that says we've got to pass it before you know what's in it concept I don't really think that would be a correct and appropriate thing to do so but again I'm gonna go back to the street sweeper because what I see is most of the problems with what lands up in the concho River is what's in our streets I mean it is and so we don't have enough street sweepers or staff to take care of what's in the streets on a regular basis and so let the wind blow let the rain fall we can't get to it I mean we just an impossible task and so I just am going to go back and say again really heavy-handed I can't support it I get where you're

[1:16:44] going and I believe the people who in fact make the big spills happen should be charged the fees and the cleanup costs associated with it I don't believe we the city government have should have to cover those costs and that incredible over accident I don't believe that but I really hate heavy-handedness and I look at it and I go if there's a number one complaint that I hear from citizens it's about the stormwater fee everybody hates the stormwater fee and we always get questioned well that's dorm water fee what do we use it for that stormwater fee I can't believe we have a storm what do we use it for where we're supposed to be doing with it and I mean it's a constant concern and citizens Minds what is the stormwater fee used for so when we have a document like this and I think there's been a lot of good work and a lot of good effort on the city staffs part to come up with a document the documents that you're presented today so it is not in criticism of the work and effort that has gone into this to try to create a document but it's heavy-handed and I I'm probably the only one is going to vote against it but I can't support heavy-handed bureaucracy documents when we can't do the work ourselves to control a lot of what goes into managing the quality of our water and I think Harry has a comment he wants to have one as well I'll let you starve Mayor as far as the heavy-handed as you mentioned we do have the laws we have requirements from the federal government and the state government a lot of them I hate I mean we get a lot of unfunded mandates at times that I'm just like what the heck is this and you get so frustrated with that but I do look at this do you know the requirements at the federal and state government have for other cities they require the same thing of us you know we start looking at heavy-handedness a lot of it is coming

[1:18:46] from the requirements that the federal government the state government has so we're looking at that and making sure that first of all the health and safety that we keep our waterways clean and that's a requirement that we have from the federal and state government we want that as well how we look at it though as far as the heavy-handedness there's certain requirements of state and federal government it has so they're in there as far as the other part of it you mentioned as far as the street-sweeping that we we are as far as the staffing levels are you know there's some positions we just can't hire so we are stretched little bit then but we do need some help as well if the street sweepers can be there as often as we'd love them to be there we will at least like to be able to keep some that sediment off our streets to kind of make it easier when the street sweepers to go through there that they can handle that if we don't have any type of regulation whatsoever we say you know what it's okay the sediment can go in there then that just makes the situation much worse for us since we don't have either but again just like you mare I hate the idea of the mandates that we get from the federal and state government at times but some of these really are to make sure that we keep our waterways safe especially for our citizens so in this instance I do feel that we need to have something in place to take care of our citizens but also to ensure that in the future we don't get it slammed with a big fee because we need more big fine because we didn't do our part as required by the state I agree I don't think we ought to be paying $37,000 I agree but it seems like for eight or ten years we haven't worried about it so I just wonder why well and like I said November the 20th 2018 all of a sudden it's become a beacon well and that's because of the permit renewal and it not even though this doesn't have anything to do with the permit renewal it is typical that you do that the state does an audit on your entire program the last three years and as mentioned if they do that and we don't have anything in place then we will be out of compliance here are you wanting to make a comment a minute ago yes probably going to reiterate a little bit of what Daniel

[1:20:49] just said there's two concerns I share the concern that Shannon has about water quality everything that we put in in the river has got to be cleaned up some worse before the citizens have it at their tab so that increases cost any kind that stuff goes in there so for a period of time before Shannon got here we were probably not doing as well a job as we could from my perspective I want to make sure that we do not spend any additional taxpayers dollar to to make sure that the quality of the water is is necessary for each each person out there so I want to make sure that we as we go forward with this that we're able to capture whatever whatever dollars is that there are out there for those particular discharges that are not that are illegal illicit whatever you want to use the word for but I'm also concerned about the compliance standards and I continue we're out of compliance for 30 days that's a million dollars and that's something I don't think we can we can afford so from I want to do what's necessary and I understand we've got contractors in here today to listen to what we're talking about and I know that Lane that's what you do and there's some concern about these these small areas Shannon said if you've got to establish vegetation out there then we're not gonna have to make you put those containments out there so from my perspective I still think that we really need to make sure that that we're protecting the citizens and so quite honestly I'm gonna have to try to support this Lane I have to ask what is does the TCEQ in the state do they have

[1:22:52] a minimum requirement of the number of times a street sweeper comes in a certain area no sir we're only required to have a program and basically have a standard operating procedure of how often we do that how we do it keep track of all the sediment that we do collect and waste disposal manifests stuff like that but they do not have a minimum requirement because they know that's a beast I mean we're it's across-the-board cookie cutter standard permit for Dallas first Angelo and a first nighter so right I'm gonna have to agree with the mayor we already have enough coming down from the state level on the mandates that they require and is a little bit heavy-handed but we do have to meet those minimum requirements that they've already established from the Fed and the state levels but it looks like we're going a little bit above and beyond to where it's unmanageable the only the only thing that's not that's exceeding the bare minimum is the less than an acre that's the only thing in here that's exceeding the bare minimum of what the the state and federal governments require so the reimbursements that we're going through now I'll agree that the city does not have to or does not need to pay from the taxpayer money to you know clean up a spill that's caused by an outsider if we go through and vote for the bare minimums of what the state and the federal government is saying we have to do is that included in that yes that's included in that standard operating procedure that 40 CFR dot-dot-dot that Theresa mentioned that's where we're getting our levels which are established by the federal government I can re PA I can support because we have to support it's being told to us from above that we have to do something our permits coming up we have to meet those bare minimum standards so it's kind of like our hands tied behind our back for that but

[1:24:55] anything above and beyond that I can't support either see you had a question the question about the storm fee and I just wanted to ask you can you say can you tell the citizens out there what the storm water fee is for sure absolutely and we have done lots of different public information videos YouTube videos we did an article as well that kind of explained what that stormwater fee pays for the storm water beep is solely to address storm water quality and that's doing stormwater samples after rain events that are a half inch or more we have samplers all over town we get those tested see what's in them we basically trace source back to something that may have caused a different contaminant level to be a little bit elevated usually we can find a solution for it also it pays for your operations crews so the drain cleanings mowing of open drains street-sweeping public education and outreach materials that we buy for little for school-aged children whenever we do experiments with them to teach them about stormwater quality and how stormwater works and essentially it's it's all focused on storm water quality thank you absolutely what is no go ahead so Shanna let me let me ask you do it if we don't do this we're up to be in fine 37,000 today right it's up to us and choose when and how we enforce it correct technically yes I mean we we can develop our own programs and everything but as far as those benchmark levels that our regulatory standards we we don't want to exceed that and that was that's not our goal you know again I want to emphasize the following thing this is not in these questions or not aimed at the city staff this is about

[1:27:00] the citizens this is about our community this is not about the work and effort that you have put into this document this is truly about the citizens who are listening to this and have to live with these things day in and day out and we the council are responsible to the citizens to make sure that we don't pass heavy-handed bureaucratic policies that are Mis impossible to enforce I understand what your job is I understand the mission that you have in front of us to protect the city from large fines etc but I also know that heavy-handed governments tampered down growth and development opportunities and what I don't want to have this community is to make development so difficult because I got to tell you just in you know the year and a half I've been here the number of documents the number of pages of paperwork in terms of ordinances and things that that we pass I mean if I just moved here and started to do something I don't know if I'd have enough weeks and months to read through all the documents to make sure I knew what I was doing and perhaps they're common enough in all markets that it wouldn't be an issue but our jobs today is to make sure that we have a great city where development is supportive by the council and by the city hall and not to get into the way and I say obviously was safety in mind but we need a city we need growth and that does not mean we need growth it is not managed by state and federal regulations but I don't think we as a city need to be heavy-handed on top of state and federal regulations they're tough enough as it is and their mandates are tough enough as it is with that said one last question on sweeping the streets there are obviously a couple times of the year when street-sweeping is far more important other times one would be when all the leaves are falling like they are now how do we schedule the street

[1:29:03] sweeping relative to climate change because there are certain times of the year when obviously like they are now leaves are falling on a daily basis and do we have street sweepers right now plan to go out and do this we do and like I said see Shane nodding his head we do and our and our schedule is you know essentially what we we sweep in different areas of the town so that at least every street in San Angelo that's a city street gets swept at least once a year and we and we do a pretty good job at that now I understand that doesn't seem like a lot because everyone would like to have their neighborhood done every you know once or twice there twice a year three times a year seasonally but it's a task to accomplish and once a year is our is our goal see that's my point it's exactly my point is that when the trees stop to drop their leaves like they are now if you swept my street today in two weeks I'm going to have more leaves on my street than I do today so exactly I know but see it goes back to this we try to do it once a year once a year doesn't catch what falls into the streets just by the nature of weather change and so if we're so concerned about the quality of water and what flows from our streets into our waterways I'm just saying the streets and I get it I get it just bringing reality to this conversation I think I've said enough already today you know my point everybody's telling okay Lane you're gonna make a motion right I'm gonna make a motion to adopt the bare minimums of what the federal and state government is requiring of us does that mean excluding the one acre

[1:31:06] excluding the one acre there is a motion one a green below when it goes below an acre so yes Oh point nine nine nine nine nine yeah we already have will see it that's coming through this next session of how much state regulations are gonna come down of the power of the municipalities I think whatever we can do those bare minimums so that's my motion is there a second I second it public comment please counselor Street assistant director water utilities and former part of the engineering firm that help to regulate some of these things and that would really strongly recommend that you guys reconsider the below an acre issue and the reason why is because there was a very large move once the ordinance was in place to not rig blow an acre to create commercial lots that were at point nine nine acres specifically to circumvent being able to have any stormwater regulation so we actually had large areas of commercial properties each one of them at the 0.95 and 0.99 acres that were specifically divided that way so they would not have to regulate any stormwater commercial properties would come in they would slick everything off to sell these Lots and so we had months and months of empty lots with no vegetation every time it rained huge amounts of soil disturbances were coming off of those streets and the city could do nothing about it because of the way the regulation was we also have seen instances where large subdivisions come in and so if a large subdivision is being developed on a residential side the developers because it's a part of a bigger program have two for each lot manage the stormwater what ends up happening is if you have one lot that doesn't sell ten years down the

[1:33:09] road everything is developed except for one lot someone comes in to develop that lot now they slick the whole lot off you have heavy rains it's now putting sediment into the streets the lot is less than an acre all the neighbors in the whole neighborhood are having problems with this sediment going to the neighborhood and again the city staff is completely tied in that we can do nothing about it and so what you end up having is you have one developer who developed 15 years down the road or one builder who's built in 15 years down the road who doesn't have to have the same regulations that all the ones on the front end have to have to manage that stormwater and and and mayor mentioned that how are we going to regulate this well because I was a part of the stormwater management program previously we would get calls for these Lots that are being developed that are under an acre by residents who are complaining that all this runoff and all the sediment is taking place and being able to come in and having nothing that we can do about it other than maybe you know clean this up ask them to clean it up but it's all after the fact what this less than one acre does it actually goes through and gives us the ability to actually manage these situations and also to prevent people taking advantage of those and so I would really strongly recommend that you reconsider that the other thing that we're looking at is we've also seen areas where someone has that point 99 acre and so they decide they're gonna put in a yard and so they basically go through grade the whole thing have no storm water controls in we get a couple of large rains all that sediment then runs off into the street and we have seen in in every neighborhood of the city instances and calls where this has happened and again because we're only regulating the one acre there's nothing really the city staff can do by the state or the federal government exactly and so this is this is what has been proposed is because of all of the issues that we have had over the last eight or ten years where people just by believing a little five-foot vegetation strip in the front of their yard could have prevented all of this problem so we're

[1:35:11] not asking them to go through and put up cell fences we're just asking them to control how that they're grading these sites and what they're doing to help prevent this runoff and off tracking the other thing is you guys have probably also seen as small construction sites say a house for instance where someone has been driving around in the mud and when it rains the other than tracking all that mud down the street and I'm sure every house in every development area you have seen that where where there's a trail three blocks long where construction site was going on and it was basically a quarter of an acre house lot again these are things that when citizens have called the city and said hey can you guys do something about this our hands are tied because all we can do at that point is send out a city crew to sweep the street or go over and ask if they would be compliant to help out in those situations no regulations in place for the city really take a stance and help out in this situation so I would just really consider and ask the council reconsider that whole idea of not regulating anything below an acre because it's not going to fix the problems that we constantly see as staff that are taking place and complaints by the citizens who are coming in saying what is our stormwater fees being used for if we can't fix these things what's the point thank you so further public comment yes ma'am Steve Hampton I also read through that 33 pages well I didn't read through the whole thing it did but it got but it put me to squirming in my seat as as the mayor had mentioned and so I feel that it has it's coming on pretty strong also it was pretty general some of it the fees that it sounded like it was up to the discretion of the administrator or they that you know like you know well I think that's a $50 fine

[1:37:15] instead of $100 fine or it didn't seem like there was a standard to make a judgment on and the generality kind of made me uncomfortable too and I had it copied off and I was I think it was an 11 and there was a the see there was like the second page or so it had fees and on it and the number see it was real general necessary to carry out there just so you know and who standard is he going to use so I think I was and I think Lane was right in doing what he did as far as making the proposal but I I was sympathetic to Lance's overture also because the the city is left defenseless in controlling of bad situations and yet leaves and dirt are organic and are natural occurring situations and will regularize themselves you know how long will rolling waters remain on pure that's what I'm sure the good Lord meant when he talked about these systems these water systems cleaning themselves so anyway I feel that this needs to be reevaluated and maybe we could table it somewhat and I appreciate that it went about trying to get input from the engineers and those who are affected I think that's I think that's very wise and appropriate but the lower than an acre the Auckland that's affecting me because I might want to put a storage unit and then have all these deals and she said that the that

[1:39:19] the harsher standard was on that group and so it was a little over up regulators so anyway very good thank you morning rocky Templin builder developer red tape I know where to start we haven't been fine 37 five hundred dollars a day for eight years I do not know the last time that the city was audited I do believe that our water quality has increased tremendously with what is in effect now through just what tcq has done I was implementing stuff way before the city was the first time I turned something in as you all my ms4 provider the city was like what is this Tim Wolfe was like we don't know what to do with this we'll just stick it in a file so some of us have been doing this long before the city has I think the perb the city's permit I'd like to see what its renewal is I'd like to see what the sto P is what's going to be the standard operating procedure on how this is enforced I'd like to know how it would impact large events that are tremendous to the city as far as the rodeo and the stock show as far as how it's going to affect them on cleanup and stormwater you have a lot of animals out there you have a lot of products there get in the street that are not going to be cleaned up how it's going to affect that as far as under an acre I'm on the fence on that and the county I know there is nothing so I don't think it would affect that or in the ETJ Thank You counsel Mayor Gary Courtis I'm a builder developer and I'm also here as a

[1:41:31] citizen private citizen and been a good presentation good feedback back and forth the term bare minimum has been used over and over and over again this is a problem I had nothing against staff or anything it was when we started out with this it was like I don't know 70 plus page document we thought that was bare minimum we got it down to whatever it is today 30 something pages my question is how do we fact check that it's bare minimum who do we ask besides staff they did their job and so we talked about these audits well you know all right we're all in foreign business we're we're threatened by audits from different regulatory agencies all the time that's what I would like to know is what are what are the bare minimums and who puts the seal of approval on it that it's a bare minimum I presented a bare minimum presentation about what was allowed and I was turned down here locally and with the regional EPA director and most of it was because it was not EPA tcq director and I started to have a flap turned that and one of the reasons was well this is from 2004 and it was from the EPA that would allow me to do what I won't do and so I thought about it well you know I'll just let it go or God take it a step further I know I took it a step further I got it through to Austin and Austin came back and said no staff in the Regional Director wrong what I was proposing is allowed now there's some caveats in there the city can step in and add to it so on and so forth but we're talking about bare minimums and what I was proposing was a bare minimum so we don't have a bare minimum there's no way in this world that this week and someone can come up here and

[1:43:34] say yeah that this is a bare minimum that's this up to y'all in this fine situation that keeps on getting thrown out $37,000 did I sure they can do that but they're gonna give you a chance to work it out they just don't come in here and say hey you guys are bad guys $37,000 per day fine we have a document in place already for the construction industry it's been in place for a long time with the MPs all these famous words UMS force we assume that sediment gets into an air mass for that automatically goes down to the concho River well I don't know if Leakey was in sediment gets to the concho River how we perfect you walked along our parks and we got banks and I'm sure Rick is working on it for grants but we have banks of subsidence of soil going right into the river after an event more than probably what builders and developers and citizens of San Angelo we're never dumped into the river at one time our main problem is the way our city is laid out originally all through here cities were laid out 100 plus years ago we drained everything into the river our old part of our city structure is what's polluting the most there's other things up here with these cans of gasoline or whatever it was that's an industrial thing that's completely separate from what they're proposing today it is regulated by the tchu itself we I guess we have to call them someone from the tchu comes out and handles it it bypasses so I don't know bare minimum uh-huh who knows no one knows I know look for what I proposed it's not a barrel as they turn that bare-minimum

[1:45:36] down just after you I don't believe this ordinates reading today it's been basically germane to a very what we have in place is germane to a small subset of citizens but we already have in place it's been in force since I forget what is for the germane to a small subset of citizens and mainly developers well we've been complied by it I've been dealing with it since 1999 through the EPA what we're proposing today is going to take in all the citizens of San Angelo every one of them I guess industrials but the citizens of the industrial I don't think there's been enough public notice now you call this public notice I think they're doing something like this there needs to be town halls there needs to be the face of the administrators answering public's questions about what's gonna fixin to happen to the city attorney will argue with me otherwise and that's fine also in your district each of y'all's district and mayor because you covered all of them so you may have a low to moderate income you will have low to moderate income constituents and under the penalty penalty assessments what if your constituents is unable to pay for accidental spills how will the city compel repayment for cleanup liens on the property citations to municipal court citations to missable court you don't pay it you get pulled over your car for a blinker not working you're going to jail look like me when reading through it it automatically goes to utility bill if there's a fee citation that we would build them and if they don't pay then we would eventually

[1:47:39] get to lien but there is a long process that happens before a lien is placed there's a process and it can't happen and my question is how is it gonna be on the property or citation Municipal Court there is a distinct difference between the two lien on the property is one thing but citations the gulsta Municipal Court is another for your arrest for during your street stormwater and engineering department will be the judge and jury with an appeal allowed to counsel well the citations or the liens on the property be put on hold during this period that's question they may have an answer I'm I'm unclear on what he's referring to okay so clarify your question maybe well code enforcement for instance comes out you didn't mow your yard so 12 inches by the way code enforcement is written if one blade when we eat is over 12 inches they can find you they don't do it that's why they come out and say clean up and you say no it's not my settlement argue and the final deal is - final appeal as to counsel lets more take a long process during that time we'll we'll we'll all the finding or leaning on the property will it be put on hold while the appeal process is going on especially if it's a municipal court citation Therese are these things that we need to be answering or addressing or not kind of tell us how we need to respond or she's referring to is that the stormwater drainage utility fee which is already on the books there's the way to calculate that based on the lot size and if you disagree with how that's been

[1:49:44] calculated that's an appeal to council all the ms4 requirements weren't acting today there's no appeal to council on those those either will go to citation but do we I don't know if we write citations for those we really just want compliance and so they will try to gain compliance if we have to clean it up like those big spills we do send an invoice and then at some point if that invoice is not paid then we could place a lien on the property that's the part that's missing that's one of the parts that's missing right now all of our other abatement items in the in the ordinance state that you can we can place a lien to compel payment over time the stormwater if they don't pay there was no mechanism whatsoever for us to gain payment so he's talking about two different things the utility fee is an appeal to council there won't be a citation for that it'll be adjusted through the utility department all of the requirements of the quality requirements we're putting in here that's required by the EPA and the state those are all through the stormwater division those can go to citation those can go to abatement and then we can place liens we won't place a lien for your stormwater utility fee nor will you get a citation with all due respect I wasn't talking about the water bill see y'all pass this the water bill for overtime will go up the water bill on the stormwater fee on your water bill will go up so go up anyway could you talk into the mic a little I can hear you clearly I'm just not sure people can y'all hear me on that last statement the the I was not talking about the fee on your water bill I was talking about non-compliance a citation of some sort being written for non-compliance and in the end the homeowner says it's not my deal it came from it's not my fountain street it's not mine so we get into an argument but debate whatever and so they said well the stormwater director or whoever is going to enforce this says what we're going to issue a citation during that time that we're

[1:51:47] appealing the citation will it be set aside until the appeal is and ruled on or will it automatically go into the municipal court system and it starts ticking we've got to pay this and like a traffic ticket in 30 days we got it this is a policing ordinance will be administrating this they're hard to get to for the average citizen I'm still waiting for an email sent out 1 2 weeks ago to response okay no you know this is have a tendency to be heavy-handed to experience my experience if an improper appeals process is not in place old enforcement started this way code enforcement came in in the late 90s I didn't hear of it port came in next thing we know we have code enforcement mow your yard a good thing we have that actually though people have all my laws that stuff sounds good that's I'm gonna I've allowed you more than well it was it was it was a disaster for the public the way the appeals process worked it has since been amended in the last two years roughly where there's a due process where the citizen has the right to appear before a municipal judge and plead their case mr. judge decide to guilt or the innocence the transitory nature of these departments in the last 10 years has uh is interesting to look at how many directors of all city engineer's city planners city attorneys

[1:53:51] have come and gone in the last tenure we really need to keep this discussion to that item the Municipal Court judges have been the same for the last 30 or 40 years that's it thank you good the bare minimum bothers me okay further public comment my name is Tony Jones I'm a builder developer as well and I'll be I'll try to be very brief I want to commend staff all of them for working with us on this document as always my concern is as yours was Brenda is the overburden of regulations that are going to continue to cause the rise of homes in San Angelo Texas that's my gig I think the staff worked really hard on this and I made a statement at one of our meetings that you know if I had my way we would kind of try to change the thinking down here fourth floor down and that is to try to figure out how we can clean up our water in this particular situation how we can clean up our water you not necessarily make all the bureaucrats elsewhere happy but nonetheless at the end of the day he's succeeding and what we're required to do and I think there are many ways to do that aside from more bureaucracy more bureaucracy we just don't Shannen in her department in my opinion you do a great job with what little they have okay I have no idea how she's gonna do this the only way she's gonna be able to implement this and take care of this is to come back to you and ask for more money responds to state and federal requirements okay so as someone pointed

[1:55:55] out I don't know that we've ever been fined thirty seven thousand dollars a day for anything much like Shannon comes to me and tells me I need to clean my mud up out of the street the state comes to you and says you're out of compliance Shannon they won't take the city straight to jail they'll say get into compliance and so then we have to go do what we have to do in order to make all these regulatory agencies happy I was a little bit concerned about the fact that we're gonna present something at the next meeting that we didn't present today that's part of this I think an integral part of this about that end of the day I know we all have to comply with these regulations but there are many many different ways to do that without continually raising the cost of regulation yes Teresa the question of cost has come up throughout these discussions over and over again and I just like to say that for the developers and the cost of a home these as they've said our regulations they've already been having to follow and my understanding is they've been doing a pretty good job following those so there should be no increase on the cost of these gentlemen and how in the price of a home now the less than an acre potentially there would be but it's not going to be I wouldn't think very extreme I mean if you have a lawn you're gonna meet the requirements so we didn't we I asked the question what impact will this have on the cost of the home and what I was told was that there shouldn't be one as far as raising fees there's only one fee that's involved in this ordinance and that is for re-inspection if there's been a if we've shut you down a stop work order that's only happened once I believe the stormwater division works with these folks very well and there's only happened one time that's a $75 fee that's what it was then and that's what it still is so there's no

[1:57:57] increase of fees whatsoever proposed in this as far as the stormwater fee in general if we were to increase that there would be public hearing requirements under the texas local government code to raise those fees that's like separate and apart from the quality that we're talking about today we're not proposing any new fees no increase in fees everything's exactly the same and if we were to increase those that would have to come back to so as of today we're not asking to increase the fees but that doesn't mean in two months that there isn't going to be a request so I mean the question mark is yeah not today but when and so I mean yeah but I think we all hear in the background down the road there will be and so that's not really an adequate answer today is there's no feed a day increased that's only relevant at this moment this time this date this year period so yes Michel if I could there in two previous statements you made today I think you perfectly characterized the the challenge associated with that's that monthly stormwater fee and that is can't we do more street sweeping you can fill in the blank there can't we do more debt to be more effective there that's one side of the argument the other is nobody likes to fee as high as it is now and so that that challenge demand for more services and demand to reduce the fee that that is a constant challenge not just with stormwater but with everything you all regulate and manage how do you keep the fees as low as possible and keep the service as high as possible that's always going to be a challenge so you're right there inflation and increasing unfunded mandates tend to push that burden up which would tend to put upward pressure on the fees at a time when we want to reduce the fees so um with you know every street once a year you know there's how many days in the year I mean it's just it's when you put it in perspective we're creating a

[2:00:00] scenario that is an impossibility to manage and oversee and keep the cost relevant I know that's a challenge I used to be able to quote how many tons of debris those street sweepers picked up every year I don't know if you've still got that memorized shame I'm sure yeah yeah it's the amount of debris they they pull off the streets so it is a challenge it's a valid effort to try to keep those streets clean but that is the continuing nature of everything you do how do we offer the service or increase levels of service and manage the fee there's no magic there that goes back to the documents creating documents they're an impossible to manage control and implement because of the very thing you're talking about and so when I say heavy-handed again this is not criticism of the staff and I want the staff to be very clear about this this is about the reality you did your job feel like you put together a document but what's the ability to manage it and if we're creating ordinances in these 33 pages or 38 pages of documents we can not execute or oversee and what is the bare minimum what is the bare minimum have we defined the bare minimum in those documents and so there seems to be questions and challenges on that and I just say before we go and pass a document that there's still a lot of questions about it does not mean it won't get passed or shouldn't get passed down the road but I think we need one more overview of it and make sure based off the challenges and questions that are out there today that we've relooked at it and said based off of those challenging questions we've relooked at this document and we think those changes would be good changes yes Teresa I think there's a couple of things one Shannon can answer the question on what is the

[2:02:02] minimum that spelled out for us very clearly in the permit but to you know we also have a balancing act we have this balance between and easily enforced ordinances to drive down the road and if there are leaves and your gutter then you get cited for that because those are your trees and those are your leaves and that's how some people or some cities regulate these things to get the fertilizers out of the water there's a lot of cities that regulate big-box retailers who store fertilizer outside and they prohibit it unless it's covered so we can we can like make this easy to enforce by putting very stringent requirements every homeowner is responsible for the grass in there that goes into the gutter every homeowner is responsible for the leaves and the gutter every homeowner is responsible for any dirt in their gutter and every big box is responsible for fertilizer stored outside we chose to go you know Ann and Tony and I had a really good dialogue during the last meeting about our balance was we want st. Angelo to regulate stormwater in the way we see best which is what he indicated so having a more bare-bones ordinance allows some creativity on the part of the developers and the stormwater folks to be able to talk about these things I was under the understanding that mr. Cortez issue had actually been resolved after the last meeting so there was an initial no you can't do this and then they talked about it after the last meeting and I found a way they can make that possible and that's the ordinance we tried to create if you want an ordinance that's very easily enforced just driving down the street we can do that but I don't think that kind of regulation anybody wants and I don't think what I'm talking about it's getting a little heavier handed I think the idea is is that you reduce the bureaucracy not increase of Rioch recei in order to get the perfect state you can't get perfect state and to pretend that just making this a 98 page document solves the problem doesn't solve the problem it makes it a city there's no one wants to live in I apologize for interrupting I apologize in advance lane

[2:04:07] the one acre or less I think needs to be regulated at the local level because probably at least half of the homes new homes low taxes are built by you know one-shot builders or guys that come in and just build one every six months and all I have to comply on the next block he just not he creates a mess and it brings the focus to me unintended or not so I'm in favor thank you very much good is there any further public comment okay so with no further public comment we will take a vote on the motion that is on the table and that is to accept the document as presented except eliminating the less than one acre with that said we'll take a vote all in favor aye all opposed motion does not pass for against and I mean for for and to against all right so with that would somebody like to make an other motion I would I would move that we adopt the staff as the report as presented by staff where it does regulate the less than one acre and I will second that any public comment on this motion you Hampton I go to Tommy what are the unintended consequences I think it's hitting the people again it takes it off commercial and puts it on private and so I I would ask that you not vote for this that it might be tabled and reevaluated all the way through there I mentioned are fines before that was never never evaluate it also there's something in there about

[2:06:15] paying I mean there's history people who haven't paid there and it implements fines against people who haven't paid their stormwater there's not I've read something about a you know filling in a blank that they had passed over before but there were a lot of question questions in my mind and I think it ought to be tabled thank you for the public comment and rocky Templin I would agree I think it needs to be tabled there still I still have a lot of questions that are unanswered on even on city enforcement I know my subdivision I've tried several times since it was when it was Street and bridge everything seemed to function pretty well when stormwater took over Street and bridge is when it seemed to decline some of my subdivision streets have not been looked at by the city in ten years the street sweepers does not come by except for possibly once a year after I make numerous phone calls the dirt in the street does run down the alley does run down the streets and then normally I get a call and it's my job to clean it up so it is other people's problems every time it rains the city's alleys run dirt grass and debris in the streets and in order takes a long time to get that cleaned up several intersections there's been accidents because of this product it gets in the streets and people pull up the stop sign to stop and slide through it the police department has documentation of severals accidents also when the street at the city is ready to mow all the Arroyo is and everything they cut all that debris and leave it in the Arroyo and so how is that going to get pleased so how am I going to please the city if Shannon can't please the city and I have complaints I have no choice but to go to

[2:08:19] the state I have turned the city into the state turn to seek you and then have them come and force the city so I think the city needs to police themselves first and then let's worry about the residents thank you for their public comment all right the motion on the floor is to accept the ordinance chapter 11 article 11 point O 3 as presented all those in favor aye those opposed 9 it's 3 3 so with that it does not pass and so I would like to make a motion to table this item and further public comment with no further public comment or do I need to do I have to take a vote on that Teresa oh you do need to take a vote and you also if you could give us a date specific when you want to table it - that would be helpful as well may I ask staff and the developers in the audience what kind of time frame do you need one more meeting two more meetings comment yeah we have December coming up and we're going to talk about the second meeting December we likely will not have that meeting in December I'm not sure we can pull together and do a the first meeting of December Shannon Shannon we'll hear from you if not it'll have to be after December we be meeting with we've met eight times we have the subcommittee I'm not sure who else we would meet with is there somebody in particular you want us to meet with well it seems like there's questions about things on this ordinance that there's still concerns about so I don't know we can take the five items that have been brought forward today and just have one more meeting to discuss those very specifically and then come back the first meeting in December which would be in two weeks is that correct that's perfectly fine as long as that works

[2:10:20] with the with the committee members schedules we can accommodate that no problem Gary just a real quick comment we had three builders in the room one specifically said that he was in favor of this less than an acre one talked about trying to see whether or not we could work something out and Gary I think had some other concerns about regulatory things that may Bend beyond this this ordinance itself so one or two more meetings I would say if we can't vet this and one or two more meetings then we're not going to be able to to solve everybody's questions I would say can bring it back in indeed in January they could submit those questions they have specifically in writing that way they can know about and get those answers prepared and have those so if they could provide those to staff over there is that yes yes you may microphone please it's been pushed back and forth and you know at the end of the day greeted disagreeing remain friends there is a tcq there is a separate division I don't I don't recall the name it's government small bit we could ask them into the discussion to find out if we really are at the bare minimums and you want to comment on that I'm not sure I know what it is and we probably don't that ice know what it I would like to comment on that because I have actually provided this to everyone in the subcommittee meeting regarding the permit term for our for the permit that we follow the general permit that the city follows there's a legal authority and and I've provided it to the mayor I'll be more than happy to provide it to

[2:12:21] anyone else who would like to look at it but it's it's it stays the traditional small Ms for us that's what the city of San Angelo is we're a level three small ms4 within two years which this was 2012 I believe within two years the permit effective date the permittee shall review and revise if necessary it's relevant ordinances or other regulatory mechanism and shall adopt new ordinances or other regulatory mechanisms that provide the permit II with the adequate legal authority to control pollutant discharges into and from its ms4 in order to meet the requirements of this general permit to be considered adequate this is our bare minimum the legal authority must at a minimum Jess authority to prohibit illicit discharges and illicit connections authority to respond to and contain other releases control the discharge of a spill prohibit dumping our disposable our disposal of materials other than storm water into the MS for authority to require comply with conditions in the permit ease ordinances permits contracts or orders authority to require installation implementation and maintenance of control measures authority to receive and collect information such as stormwater plans inspection reports and other information deemed necessary to assess compliance with the permit from operators of construction sites new or redeveloped land and industrial and commercial facilities Authority as needed to enter and inspect private property including facilities equipment practices or operations related to stormwater discharges to the small ms4 authority to respond to non-compliance with BMPs required by the small ms4 consistent with their ordinances or

[2:14:24] other regulatory mechanisms authority to assess penalties including monetary civil or criminal penalties and the ability to enter into interagency or interlocal agreements or other maintenance agreements as necessary but she just wrote down that's exactly what it says and it says adequate or other local ordinances how do we know that in our codes already we're not complying any way with our other ordinances we don't know that and been investigating but anyway that's let me ask a question now I think there was conversation about our permit that ended 2018 correct so if I'm not mistaken than what you're asking is is that we have some vote and some ordinance on file before our permit December 12 yes so what we need to do and however much it takes we need to have this represented for council the first meeting in dissent so that we comply with the deadlines that we have for our permit so it seems to me there's just a little bit of language in there that we need to work on well everybody's not going to be happy we're not gonna get an ordinance is a hundred percent but we got to get an ordinance that this council can approve by the first meeting in December I think we needed to take a vote on the table in this item and so do I have a motion and a second on favor of tabling this item to the first week yes would it be possible that we could approve this on first reading and make the changes

[2:16:26] for a second reading have it on the regular agenda because we've got to have two readings to approve it so you're asking again repeat that please if we did the first reading in December 4th we wouldn't be able to approve it until the 18th so if we could approve it on the first reading with the changes or with with direction to staff to make changes then it could be approved on December 4th in time so you're just asking that we when we make a motion and approve it that we say that there will not be a second reading as that way you're requesting no I'm requesting that we withdraw the motion to table it and making a motion to approve it first reading okay so we're not tabling it we're just moving it forward to the first meeting in December for a reading merit I think what they haven't made clear is the ordinance requires two readings I know I got it we have two meetings including today if we cancel the second meeting in December the two meetings we have before the expiration of the permit is a day and the first meeting in December but we're not approving it today a lot of cities don't even have a public hearing on the first reading they just move it to second and that's when you argue about it okay so we're moving it to the second reading and are we sure we're gonna have it quorum on the 20th well I mean that's our concern we're going to talk about that at the end of this meeting we're gonna do with that second meeting in December and so if you table it to the first meeting there's no way we'll get it approved if you decide to not have the second meeting or you're tying your hands to require a second meeting without knowing if there's going to be a quorum we can we're not cabling we're just moving it to the first meeting set to a second reading presentation on consent agenda the which we will pull out and have a discussion about absolutely beyond the regular agenda regular definitely and we could also at that point also have the policies like

[2:18:29] we weren't intending to do so you would be able to see all of it together we need to anyways you do yes okay that's that's what we'll do I can't repeat it again because I'm sure I'll screw up the language so I motion to move it forward to second reading motion move this forward second reading public comment the fact that you've already gone through the process and are working on this in a meaningful way will stand as you're to the fact that you're you're working on it and and there I mean I don't think we're gonna be out of out of alignment with with the rules I mean any further than we already are so if if we made it in in January or February it would still still be the same to me in my mind that we are working on it that we've heard it once already and that there are changes and that we need to work on it and refine it a little more so the fact that we're doing this there that we're in the process would here's the thing we can move it again if we need to but for this point this is what we'll be doing and if in December there's still too much confusion we can continue to move it out till we all get through the process and agree on a document that we can support well if bureaucracy is a short Mary period of time is not going to be be very good it takes there's too many people involved so this point it doesn't look like too many people so I think we can get it done I hope I'm sure that there's lots of great staff and lots of great input we can get her done so I think they can work through it and me hopefully come to the table with a decision so thank you everybody for your comments and input

[2:20:33] today okay with that well of course we'll take a vote all in favor say aye aye any opposed motion passes 6-0 with that we're gonna do an update on sales tax revenue performance shop local support local give local go local Thank You mayor good morning mayor council mr. Valenzuela I'm Tina deer see director of Finance I have some good news for you this morning our sales tax revenue was up again in November at thirteen point six three percent compared to the same month in the prior year and our budget is over by two hundred twenty seven thousand dollars year-to-date I do want to point out that last November sales tax was up at seven point zero three percent so that is compounded slightly this year and here's your sales tax by industry we have results for October right now and so you'll see there that retail and general services are up slightly as well as professional service wholesale and manufacturing again that's for October reflecting sales in August all right keep pushing correction for some reason so you asked for annualized information mayor at the last meeting and so for 2017 compared to 2018 18 was ups 12 point 11 percent compared to 2017 at just over one point four million dollars and I like you to keep doing it that way because we know there's a rollover so we want to have an ongoing where we stand as a rolling number as well as current and here's your annualized sales tax by industry information that you requested as well where you can see the blue line is fiscal year 17 compared with the fiscal year 18 what's really great about

[2:22:35] that that's the first time in a while where we've seen retail increase over the previous year so that's a great positive support local give local shop local go local go okay and that's all the information I have on sales tax unless you have any questions for me Thank You Tina I just like to say happy birthday oh thank you sir today do you want me to sing happy birthday all right item D is first public hearing an introduction of an ordinance amending the budget for the fiscal year beginning October 1 2018 and ending September 30 2019 for capital items grants and reimbursed expenses Tina yes ma'am so this is a budget amendment that we're bringing to you today the first three items are new items we have one for the Fire Training yeah for the Fire Training Center where they're having those external training courses that provide to external departments and agencies and so chief done already has a revenue I believe in the amount of about $15,000 that he would like to budget for that revenue as well as any additional revenue he would expect to receive this year and thereby paying for the expenses associated with those training classes that he's putting on out there that's for forty five thousand dollars in both revenue and expense we also have the text ramp grant and that's out at the airport and I'll tell you what ramp is if I can find the routine Airport maintenance program that's a grant that and we can receive where we have a local match of $50,000 and they'll grant us $50,000 and it's meant to increase the amount of improvements were able to to on an ongoing basis at the airport usually usually our grants what 25 percent match

[2:24:37] this one's a 50/50 match we haven't gotten this one in a while so kudos to Mitch for applying for it this is going to stretch his small pool of maintenance dollars so good job Mitch thank you thank you Mitch are you aware of why it's a 50% match rather than 25% is she you know no hard questions please that's just this is a text knock grant program and that's just they just want that that level of match but I do I do want to mention that even with that type of text on support these are projects that need to be done anyway maintenance wise it would have been doing and paying out-of-pocket anyway so to get into my sense of coverage that's that's awesome yeah why I don't do visuals okay and then this third one is a homeland security grant and that is for communication and trailer and vehicle and a satellite and radio equipment and out at the EOC I believe chief Sanford has turned in this request and that's in the amount of sixty seven thousand five hundred thirty-eight dollars for that grant that Nets out zero and there's no contribution on our part yes ma'am okay and next up we have a list of what we call our carryover budget amendments and these are projects that were that had some form of approval and FY 18 but for some reason we didn't have a Pio on them yet or we hadn't begun the project per se and so our our departments will turn in what's called a carryover request and ask to carry those funds over into the new year so that they can complete those projects that had been previously approved the expense and the revenue both go forward so the expense rolls forward and technically it pulls out of the fund balance where it went to at the end of FY 18 just to be clear yes ma'am so the first so these first two slides

[2:26:42] are all general fund items and the first one is for document management software and that's a request from our city attorney's office for software that they can use to manage all of their documents and the second one is the continuation of the battery backup system that's the one that Patrick referred to earlier to complete the $197,000 purchases it was approved today we have a request from street and bridge and that is nine hundred eighty two thousand five hundred dollars and it is set aside to fund mill and overlay on ryokan so drive summon growth street repair and an H a5 and rejuvenator application on streets that's a request from Street and bridge we have a request for carryover of funds for the tree irrigation at Santa Fe Golf Course that was approved earlier last year and we have a request to carryover some funds for station 618 and Santa Fe crossing improvements and this was the money that was approved but for the use of salary savings within that department so they had started a lot of those projects but hadn't been able to complete them all at this point and we also have a request for animal shelter improvements of 119 thousand dollars just over a hundred nineteen thousand dollars and then we have a request for the gun range the roof at the gun range 9150 will be funded through the police department the other half of that cost is going to be funded through tml and then we have a request for $5,000 for hexagon maintenance and that was in addition to what was expected previously for the fiscal year 19 what's the hexagon that's this new system at the police department so those were all of the general fund items we're moving on to other funds now we have a request for a carryover from the Health Department for their for the purchase of electronic health inspection system we have the Kirby Park rain capture system in the amount of $15,000 and then we have water and water reclamation projects in the amount of 3.6 million dollars for infrastructure to keep up with a street improvement program attempt to keep up

[2:28:46] we're still trying to catch all those the best oh yes thank you for pointing that out we have a request first water funds to be carried over for Sunset Lake dredging an Avenue P drainage as well as some amount I think it's to outfit a stormwater truck a truck that's already been purchased but for the equipment to outfit that truck we have a request for carryover for the property casualty insurance fund for farmer Gators that are required to be covered by our internal self insurance fund and then we have a request from Civic events for $24,000 from for event scheduling software that was previously budgeted in dee hire year 24,000 it was short of 24,000 I believe they had about $13,000 that was budgeted and they're requesting an additional $11,000 so that they can complete that purchase so that isn't totally correct so there was a shortfall but they're covered in their current budget yes ma'am yes that would be it so if you have any questions about any of those amendments I'll be happy to try to answer them do we have a motion to accept the move to approve as presented okay thanks second by Lane any public comment no public comment we'll take a vote all in favor of approving the budget amendment say aye with not opposed it passes 6-0 thank you thank you we are now going to go into closed session executive session under the provision of Government Code title five open government ethics subtitle a open government chapter 551 Open Meetings subchapter D exceptions to requirement that meetings be open under the fine sections a section 55 1.07 1 to consult with attorney when the governmental body seeks the advice of its attorney on a matter in which the duty the attorney to the governmental body under the Texas disciplinary rules of professional conduct of the State Bar

[2:30:50] of Texas clearly conflicts with this chapter regarding the solid waste contract and item B only make sure I have this right there was one more pivot irrigation service so solid waste contract and the pivot and irrigation services bid and then item B section 55 1.07 to deliberation regarding real property a governmental body may conduct a closed meeting to deliberate the purchase exchange lease or value of real property of deliberation an open meeting would have a detrimental effect on the position of the governmental body in negotiations with a third person regarding block 65 Fort Concho addition sixteen point three six acres P coos and Acker so6 for 7a one five six six and San Angelo Regional Airport we will be out for approximately one hour I say 45 minutes but that means one hour so we'll see in an hour to order at 11:50 a.m. and we will start with Tom would you like to make an announcement about the pivot irrigation services bid please absolutely my commotion to award both bids for pivot irrigation services to all techs irrigation and water logistics second any public comment with no public comment we'll take a vote on favor say aye any opposed motion passes six zero we will now move into item B do I need to reread these whole things in context but I need to read the whole thing okay so Harry would you like to make a an announcement please make a motion to authorize the city manager to negotiate the purchase of the north 270 feet of east one half of block 65 of the Fort

[2:32:54] Concho addition for 15 East Avenue a and to execute all necessary documents any public comment with no public comment we'll take a vote all in favor aye any opposed motion passes 6 0 on the follow-up and administrative issues consider items well sorry we just did that item be considered the scheduled city council meetings in December 2018 and 20:19 so at this point in time the meetings for december will in fact be on December the 4th and December the 18th all right and in January we will move the meeting to the 8th of January because the first Tuesday of the month is New Year's Day so that meeting will be moved to the 8th and so we'll have the 8th in the 22nd as the city council meetings let me ask a question second even though the meeting ran long today I'm my preference candidly our staff works that they don't ever really get a break from working on the agenda they're always working on the agenda it would be my preference unless the staff is aware of something that is coming forward that we have to meet on the 18th that we give our staff a break from the 4th to the 8th that's just that's my that's my thought I just get nervous about year-ending and Risa does that deed are you aware of anything Julia are you aware of anything I know there are some planning items that have been noticed but the notice for the second meeting was wrong so gonna have to reissue those anyway I'm the only other thing we were planning on bringing that second meeting in December is some food truck provisions but those are all related to the zoning ordinance and so we were going to delay enforcement of those for if you might still let people have time to comply anyway so there's not going to be any detriment other than they will not be aware of what's passed by the

[2:34:56] first beating and my preference would be to go I didn't do the first meeting in December now the second meeting December I do agree thank you for that Tommy also we do have staff that has to take their vacation hours a lot of them do do it in December before they lose those hours carried over into January so my preference would be if anything just to do that first meeting in in December and not the one in the second one in December yes sir clarify for me cuz so the days often available are October 1 to September 30th because you said they have to take them in December versus why is that this number is the last month to be able to use your hours so again there's a lot of individuals that have worked a lot of hours that quite frankly couldn't take time off during the year and only slows down a little bit in December that's a time that they do decide they can take those okay so with that I guess we're going to have one meeting in December which will be on the 4th at this point we're not going to plan on having a meeting on the 18th and then the meetings in January will be on the 8th and the 22nd I will not be here the 4th I'll be going to Vegas for just make sure so I don't know if there's this important things coming up the 4th I don't know well let me ask you a question would it work better to move the meeting from the 4th to the 11th and have only one meeting ok so let's do that let's meet on the 11th I'm not sure about the 11th I can okay if you'll just look at that real quick and then that way it's kind of in between and we'll have a full council and I kind of like that idea too America moved into the 11th can again you're coming off in years and yeah so well you're really coming off with Thanksgiving you are and yeah that gives us yeah it's December 11

[2:37:02] thank you not you so move there's a force to the 11th if we don't have noticed for notice problem I think junior is okay we're worried you keep us in check Shane can you be here woman that sounds familiar I was trying to do that with y'all for dinner can you we just say that we will plan for the lemon and if there's something that quite frankly wet meat on the fifth we just prove back to the fifth all good we'll meet on December the 11th no meeting on the 4th it will be the single only meeting we have in December that will be December sort the 11th okay do I have a motion for adjournment all moved

[2:39:10] motion passes 6-0 on the 11th or sometime before

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=NWzWX4D3CS4