City Council 6-4-24

[0:00:00] 8:31 a.m. on June the 4th it already feels pretty hot and humid out there so appreciate this air conditioning while you can we start this meeting with our chaplain prayer and pledges so if chaplain art Mado would please come forward good morning let us bow our heads in prayer almighty God you have created all people and all creation and we give you thanks for for your creation we give thanks for this day that that you have given us and we ask that you would just open our hearts and our minds to be able to to do the best we can For Your Glory open our hearts and our eyes to see your community as you would have us see it and bless our leaders in all they say they do all in all that they say and do amen amen I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all honor the Texas flag I pledge allegiance to thee Texas one State under God one and indivisible thank you we only have one Proclamation this morning so uh just a minute we'll start with that you're good you're

[0:02:02] good keep s Angelo beautiful kab was initiated by council member member Harry Thomas and City officials in 2018 to address relevant Community needs and Foster a love of the environment in February 2020 strategic plans were implemented to create awareness and maintain clean green and beautiful spaces through ART science and education kab has hosted hundreds of events in St Angelo including household hazardous waste drop offs trash pickups recycling tires art murals installed picnic tables and benches induction of kab Junior ambassadors who pledge to be Litter free speaking engagements and published the book ABC 26 ways to keep St Angelo beautiful they have also been featured in St Angelo Lifestyles and Texas Municipal League magazines in addition they have received numerous Awards and recognition from state of Texas officials including keep keep Texas beautiful beautifi Texas awards for public education and Outreach 2023 and outstanding program tires to go 2024 state of Texas alliance for recycling Texas environmental leadership awards for Extraordinary recycling special event 2023 and outstanding public Outreach 2023 Texas commission on Environmental Quality Texas Environmental Excellence award Civic Community tires too 2024 therefore I Brenda Gunter mayor of St Angelo do hereby Proclaim and recognize keep s Angelo beautiful for their dedicated efforts and commitment to create awareness preserve and protect the environment in St Angelo Texas thank you let me present you with this and would you like to speak sure so we want to thank city council um mayor Gunter and your team for your support um especially we want to thank Mr Bob Solace for an amazing start under

[0:04:05] neighborhood and family services and uh our operations team Mr Shane Kelton we are finishing strong um with support from Solid Waste Street and Bridge I want to give a special shout out to our economic development team who has housed our amazing organization and without them we could have never done the work that we've done um Michael uh again your support means everything to us and we appreciate everything that you've done to create awareness around our organization um that we've we worked tirelessly um to put uh the most beautiful part of our city to the community and our guest guest and visitors come up here us for the picture would anyone else like to speak all right let's go have a picture you we will now move in to the public comment section of the agenda issues or concerns not on the regular agenda may be raised by the public at this time citizens should speak from the podium address all comments to the Diaz Begin by stating their name and address or single member district number and limit their remarks to less than three minutes bear with me a minute because my blood

[0:06:15] pressure is really high from all the stress I've been under for the past four years my name is Jackie Chestnut I'm I'm 67 years old I've been through 18 surgeries since 1998 I've been legally disabled I've had three artificial joints an artificial back and 17 other surgeries for various things I moved with my husband who had dementia and who was completely disabled in 2018 to Marble Falls and shut down our business and then by the grace of God I had many surgeries and moved back here in 2020 with my demented husband to try to finish our lives at our beautiful Ranch in nicker Bacher Texas when I returned to our ranch with my husband my husband was abducted from my home in October of 2020 into the city of San Angelo and for the next 14 months I searched for my husband through every agency every person every Sheriff every police every person here every district attorney every single person nobody would help me find my husband and locked him away from me in every illegal way possible that is called deler abuse and financial exploitation having suffered the indignity of that my husband died and was returned to me dead from Johnson's funeral home where they tried to bury him without even acknowledging me now can we even imagine you all what that would do to somebody my precious precious husband so at this point I'm now going to discuss elder abuse and financial exploitation and the legal ramifications of these things which are new laws put in place in 21 by our state to prevent this very thing from happening particularly to people like ourselves who had every legal document to prevent this from happening from a marriage license to powers of attorneys to wills and everything else which were repaired in this County and filed in this County and then frauded by local attorneys that is elder abuse and financial exploitation Aon Greg my husband's a

[0:08:20] strange daughter stole the passwords from our financial accounts and got into every Financial account we had and began made making major transactions and changes to our Financial accounts which caused IRS Fraud and all kinds of things I went to the banks they tried to help and they wouldn't help stop it I went to the police Aaron Greg then planned and facilitated the removal of my husband from my home where I was caring for him on my private property not community property my private property in a nursing home condition and he was removed now if you read all the elder abuse statutes in here Financial exploitation means illegal and improper use of elder or adult with disabilities money property or other resources for monetary personal and financial gain Etc I've now filed an official Report with Adult Protective Services on this case to stop this and to stop this continuing which has continued since then and it's going to stop and I'm going to get out of here live and further public comment please single me Jamal shumer single member district number two um mayor council members there's a lot I have to discuss I can't discuss it within 3 to 5 minutes uh um but I I'll try to tackle some of this I would like an update on the Lake nasworthy Project U there was an article put out about what 2ot below our normal water level in Twin butes and I was just wondering I was just wondering myself is it because we're using more water taking more water out of our Reservoir and instead of putting it in uh which could also go back to a

[0:10:24] problem with uh the zoning board and Planning Commission Gran a lot of variances to developers I do believe like some of that storm water we could put back into the system uh if we had those curbs and gutters um but beyond that uh yesterday at the Zoning Board of adjustment I there was quite a few interesting uh conversations that went on some of which I I would encourage you guys to listen to because they're not on the same path as you are with the short turn rentals um they they had the understanding that y'all were going to drop the 500t requirement and instead um y'all kept it up and that that caused a lot of confusion in which they passed a short-term rental yesterday up under the old rules which it's understandable but there are things about that board how how it's created that causes problems there's a lot of people on that board I I don't think they know or knowledgeable of the things that regulate them uh that's why I would say maybe y'all should talk to them y should have a meeting between each other so that y'all can get on the same page uh but beyond that I guess I took enough time I would like to end on a a good note by saying that keep San Angelo beautiful does do a great job they do in areas they target I I could definitely tell so thank you thank you very much further public comment hi good morning good morning uh my name is Gil Banis I live at 11933 nicera Road in St Angelo and the reason I'm here is to basically uh talk about the homeless situation for our abandoned dogs and cats in the area we're seeing uh I work a lot with Critter uh agency Rescue

[0:12:28] Agency and we're seeing a big big influence where people are are big uptake where there's a lot more homeless dogs I don't know if you're all aware of that or not but it's becoming a real uh real problem in our city even though I'm in the outskirts uh where I live I live out in the country kind of In Dove Creek but the people are regularly dumping dogs out there every weekend pretty much I've got like eight dogs now I'm trying to find homes for and I see them dumping them every weekend pretty much so what I would like my suggestion is to get a task force look at some other cities uh for best practices and find out what are they doing are successful and why can't we in St Angelo do what those other cities are doing to to decrease that I know for instance I I moved from Oregon I used to live in Portland Oregon not as good anymore but for the Humane Society they are number one in the nation and they had a really really good program there it would be really nice to connect with them and the agencies everybody all of us get together put our heads together and let's get this problem solved because it's it's becoming uh you know a real problem and I just want to see the dogs and cats not suffer I mean it's going to be 107 degrees today there's going to be a lot of dead animals on the roads today so it should be nice to fix that problem thank you very much thank you any additional public comment this morning with no one else coming forward we will um end the public comment section of the agenda and we will move into the consent agenda I will ask each council member if there's an item they'd like pulled from the consent agenda I'll start with Larry Karen no ma'am Lucy no ma'am Harry ma'am Tom Tommy ma'am then may I have a motion for approval of

[0:14:31] the consent agenda so move by Harry seconded by Tom public comment concerning anything on the consent agenda this morning seeing none we'll take a vote all those in favor of the approving all of the items on the consent agenda please say I I are there any opposed seeing none opposed or hearing none opposed the consent to agenda is passed 7 to zero our regular agenda comments regarding items on the regular agenda may be made by the public when each item is discussed as outlined above applicants proponents and appellants are exempt from the time limit above and instead must limit their remarks to less than five minutes item a is consider resolution of support to end veteran homelessness and today we have Bob Solace presenting uh good morning Council morning in um 2023 the homeless homelessness among veterans increased Nationwide by over 7% reaching over 35,000 here in St Angelo the number jumped from 8 to 12 according to our 2024 pointing time count but the Homeless Coalition believes it's closer to 30 if you recall the city provided ARP funds to the housing authority to in the amount of u $554,000 to renovate an apartment complex uh to house homeless veterans and then we earmarked another 100,000 for follow-up case management with the uh project completed and the Homeless Coalition member organizations offering resources and programs to assist homeless veterans the Coalition believes that we can end veteran homelessness here in St Angelo in order to accomplish that feat

[0:16:35] the Coalition plans to identify all homeless veterans within a 90-day period beginning in July 1st next month we will provide either transitional or permanent housing for all homeless veterans who want it followed by intense case management that's in order to transition from homelessness to permanent housing and help sustain long-term success for these individuals we must remember that freedom is not free and the men and women who have served in the military to keep our nation safe from foreign threats deserve access to affordable housing and we're asking on behalf of the Coalition for you to support the resolution of support thank you thank you any any comments morning I'm Mike Bernett the uh executive director of consell Valley Community Action Agency and chair of the consell valley homeless planning Coalition and I'm in uh Council District 1 I'm here in support uh of the ending homelessness initiative um as Bob alluded to in the point in time count this last year identified 12 homeless vets the other numbers on that pit count are 175 homeless uh 40 chronic homeless and then 12 veterans and we anticipate that that is significantly higher than that due to the nature of the point and time count uh over the past few years uh the groundwork has been laid uh for this initiative uh as Bob said the city has appropriated federal funds uh and additional funds towards this the housing authority and Galilee CDC has done the work to prepare those cottages and now it's time to put it into action

[0:18:39] the Homeless Coalition is a network of agencies providing services to all of our homeless individuals including uh our homeless veterans uh under this proposal the Housing Authority is going to do most of the heavy lifting they're going to be providing the point of intake they'll be providing the case management ongoing uh other agencies like mine vcaa will provide other services uh we received uh funding from the Texas veterans commission uh and their general assistance funds to help veterans low-income veterans uh especially those homeless each Coalition agency has a part in this big and small if you look at the list of the members of the Coalition and you look at the services every piece of that is going towards this and our other homeless individuals uh in the future uh once we solve veteran homeless I'm looking forward to continuing the work with the city uh as we work to help our other homeless neighbors uh and find them some kind of uh Safety and Security and housing thank you thank you I'll read the resolution of support from the city of s Angelo to end veteran homelessness whereas homelessness among veterans has increased Nationwide by over 7% reaching 35574 in 2023 and whereas veteran homelessness and Angel jump from 8 to 12 over the same period and whereas freedom is not free and the men and women who have served in the military to keep our nation safe from foreign threats deserve access to affordable housing and whereas the city of St Angelo dedicated American re rescue plan funds in the amount of 55441 to renovate an apartment complex to house homeless veterans and $100,000 for case management and where as the council Valley Homeless Coalition member organizations provide resources and programs to assist homeless veterans now therefore be it resolved by the city of St Angelo city council may I have a motion to approve

[0:20:44] the resolution as one of three veterans up here I make a motion to approve this resolution sir second by Larry any further public comment seeing none we'll take a vote all those in favor of approving the resolution say I I None opposed motion passes 70 the second item on our agenda today is the first reading and public hearing of an ordinance amending chapter one General Provisions article 1.09 taxation division 3 uniform tax abatement policy section 1.09 point0 62 definitions and section 1.09 point0 63 abatements scheduled the city's sanal code of ordinances and um Mr sheiman you're on thank you uh good morning uh mayor council uh Mr Valenzuela um back in October of 2023 Council renewed the um ordinance uh allowing for tax abatements for certain companies uh either relocating or expanding in s Angelo staff after that time uh was approached by a number of companies that either fell outside of the rather limited number of uh industries that uh were authorized under that ordinance or um uh were not align and and the our ordinance was not very well aligned with the county at that time so we took a look at it and and uh we're making some recommendations here also the previous ordinance sort of locked Council into uh some pretty strict guidelines as far as what the uh baits should be and so we tried to at the same time uh in this revision

[0:22:46] um give Council a little more flexibility in what what they can approve uh on a case-by Case basis so uh this first slide shows the U percentages uh of uh tax abatement based on Capital cost of a project and also permanent jobs created and or um what we did on this the these guidelines is we basically took the old guidelines and set those as the top uh uh for each category but allow con uh Council to um determine a lower amount if they so desired or uh uh not not lock you into strictly this uh the table that was in the the the ordinance previously uh city council at their we've also added this statement city council at their sole discretion May determine the exact percentage of a tax abatement to be granted based on the not to exceed percentages in in the uh table that was just shown um we feel that that that gives youall a lot of flexibility to uh determine on a case-by Case basis what what you'd like to do uh the other thing that we did we looked at eligible um Industries and we tried to align this with the NEX codes that are authorized under Section 501 and 505 five of the T local government code which governs the Economic Development Corporation and so uh we basically uh took there were about four major industries that were covered before and this opens it up to about 10 or 12 Industries again it's it's up to council uh give us Industries please

[0:24:51] give us the ones that currently exist versus the ones that you're asking to be added the ones under Section o uh uh section 501 and 505 include Crop Production animal production forestry and logging commercial fishing those are big ones in St Angelo I realize uh support a support activities for Agriculture and Forestry I think that's a sort of a big one for St Angelo mining which also includes uh uh oil field and uh energy uh utilities uh that's one that we actually had uh uh a request for there's a a a company that's uh covered by a a utility n code that is interested in making a significant Capital Improvement significant capital investment sorry uh in the city and uh they're asking for some uh tax abatement uh manufacturing which had been covered previously wholesale trade uh transportation and warehousing uh different types of information centers uh except for things like drive-in movies and that sort of thing Securities and commodities contracts uh and investment firms um Financial firms in general architectural engineering and science firms uh management of companies and Enterprises which be sort of a headquarters if if a headquarters operation wanted to move here we could look at giving them a tax abatement uh telephone call centers Correctional institutions and also uh although it doesn't apply uh any National Defense uh industry most of those don't pay taxes but so wouldn't seek an tax bment but nevertheless they would be eligible under the new uh under

[0:26:56] the revision sounds like to me every industry's qu is being listed under the additions to it doesn't look like anybody was left out well and then there's also a statement in there now that says that that y'all can uh look at any company uh the state doesn't the state doesn't regulate the companies that you can or the industries that you can or cannot provide a tax incentive for but the state does regulate um the growth and in and property taxes that the city's allowed to receive so with that said we are limited to a 3.5% growth in our property tax over existing properties so we are controlled and limited in terms of what we can do as it relates to property taxes and as you know our property tax dollars 100% of our existing property tax dollars are used to pay for our fire and our police plus another 7 million out of sales tax so the conversation about property taxes becomes a pretty big conversation to have because it has a huge impact on our ability and resources available to fund our police and fire number one and I think that's that's part of the reason that staff really looked at this and and wanted to give Council as much flexibility as possible not lock you into any particular industry or any particular percentage um and I guess the way to look at it really is um 50% of something is still better than 10 than 100% of nothing so uh if Council looks at a a particular company and says we think we want them here and it's worth doing uh a tax abatement so be it um you have that flexibility but you also have the flexibility to say no and what's the difference you made the

[0:28:58] comment that the county has one parameter versus the city what's the difference between the parameter established by the county versus what you are what has existed and what you are proposing um the the county the county is pretty much wide open on what they can do uh and we've tried to align more closely with that uh in the revisions that we've done to this uh this I judge FL has been um has been a leading force in limiting the amount of tax abatement given to wind and solar people um that his parameters and resolution in terms of what percentage they would give tax abatement was much lower than what other cities or Counties have done in the past and now other cities and counties are looking at what judge Floyd set as a li set as a Lim limitation on tax abatement as a percentage so how does that correlate up to the 70% which is the maximum presented here today um I'm not entirely familiar with the county but I think Michael Looney is maybe a little more familiar with what they do because he works with those uh more than I do wouldn't the majority of those Bob be I'm sorry wouldn't the majority of those type things that you just mentioned wouldn't they be out in the county and not within our city um within our city limits the old ones would but these new ones adding the additional Industries are pretty much within the city limits that would happen in institutions architectural firms uh Financial firms so it's really about changing it from a county perspective to inclusive of a tremendous amount of City yeah so I guess my point is you know it doesn't look to me like just from what I read and what you've said this morning that

[0:31:02] we would really be um hurting ourselves any by um passing this simply because the wind and solar things are in fact out located outside the city limit so we have no power to tax them anyway unless I'm missing something I I suppose that is true I it would be very difficult for uh a company like that to locate in the city because there just isn't sufficient uh vacant land available maybe another way to look at it too is if the county is oper is offering a tax ab bment and we're not um that's a lot of Mo there's a lot of motivation there to look at in the county and not in the city limits but you can't put a solar farm in the city or a wind farm in the city and that's really the the point is that that those are County projects my question is we went from this list of people who the county allows tax abatement and we allow tax abatement in the 501 and 505 policies what you're saying is we now want to increase the type of businesses that would be allowed to apply for tax abatement So based off of that list that you just read it sounded like to me almost everyone who wanted to come into the city limits and create a business would be eligible for tax abatement so tell me what isn't available for tax abatement in the city with this proposal with this proposal um because you have the ability to uh determine eligibility on a case-by casee basis there would literally be nothing uh that I can think of that would be be uh that would not be eligible if Council so desired well and also based off of the chart presented

[0:33:06] where you started a very low uh valuation right as well as low employment or new Employments again I would say it sounds like looks like to me every new business that came into s Angelo right now would be eligible for tax abatement El your chart pull that chart back up that chart yes so if with a minimum invest investment of 250,000 one would be able to apply for a 20% abatement if they employed one person that that is correct that would seem to me to be a pretty low abatement kind I mean it seemed to me that the criteria is setting a pretty low standard mayor you're right we we were trying to give you as much latitude as possible and so we were trying to push those thresholds both down and up uh and give you more latitude for the types of companies that you could um contract with um again the desire was not to restrict council's judgment or latitude uh but to open that up so that if Council felt like uh a project was a priority for them that they might have more opportunity to participate have we had companies is there an example of companies that might you don't have to give the name of companies that came forward and said we want to be in St Angelo but because we you don't have a tax abatement policy that applies to us we're not interested um can we talk

[0:35:10] about yeah um Council may recall we talked about a battery storage facility uh that that basically is uh stores energy standby energy and batteries that would not have been eligible under our old plan uh they they have a utilities next next code our our previous ordinance did not cover that and that's sort of what spurred the um for staff to look look at what was eligible and what wasn't eligible and uh so we thought well aligning it with uh more closely with what is eligible under uh the Development Corporation act seemed to make sense that and that also seemed to be be where where the original um tax abatement ordinance was headed only they took specific uh Industries only and that ordinance has been in place uh I've been here going on 15 years that's that same ordinance has been in place for since before I got here um so F you know maybe it was time to take a look at it I always think it's important to relook at criteria that has been established but again I I'm I'm a little nervous at the low level you know at the bottom of the you know 20% for $250,000 investment and one person being hired now perhaps we'll never have somebody who only wants to employ themselves and invest 250,000 and get a 20% U abatement and that could be I just wonder if we haven't set a very low level standard for tax abatement and perhaps all cities do this and that this would be reflective of cities that might be in competition for these same

[0:37:12] companies perhaps but I I just think it opens the door to have a conversation about tax abatement for almost everyone who comes to town and looks to open uh because we've also not only done this but we've also looked at opening the door the window for almost every industry that comes to S Angelo based off of those new criteria and I'm I'm a little nervous about the open big open door we' we talking about that is exactly the kind of conversation we want Council to have about this is I feel like this is a little low that's the kind of latitude we want Council to have the con the kind of conversation we want Council to have we think this investment's not high enough or we think this employment's not high enough to incentivize and so uh we're encouraged to hear the the deeper thought that you're you're applying to these uh these Concepts and uh if you want to think about it some more we could do that if you want to approve something we could do that we could approve something for example eliminating the Top Line in this chart we could do something like that but that conversation that that that thought process that the mayor just went through is exactly the kind of thing we want Council to be able to do I feel like this is too low uh I feel like that's not enough employment uh and uh so we're already doing what we hoped would happen and that is considering seriously what levels we think are appropriate for in in incentives see my other question and perhaps it's here somewhere that I don't see but for what time frame because most tax abatements are only done for x amount of years they're not done for the life of the project or forever and ever and ever and ever and ever they're usually done

[0:39:14] for and sometimes on a diminishing basis for example maybe the first Year's 20% the second the year 1 through five year 6 through 10 is 10% Etc so I also don't see presented here what the timeline is attached to these percentages and these statistics so I'm a little concerned about that as well the the state limits U the the tax abatement time frame to 10 years our ordinance as it stands now and we haven't changed this uh has a seven-year cap but 5 Years From the date of is it completion of the ordinance completion of the project completion of the project so five years from completion of the project is is the limit that our ordinance as it stands now and would continue uh uh that's that's the limit that we've put on it because the other question I would have is the fine so let's say someone comes um to us and I'm just going to constantly use the same valuation just to simplify it but they have a $250,000 investment they're going to make in a building they're going to employ one person what other incentives would that same company be eligible for through coad DC so that would be my other issue is based off of that low valuation of investment what other requests could they make of Costa DC to come here that would depend on the company of course the number of employees in this case one um if if it was a $250,000 investment and one employee um I doubt that uh uh there would be any significant um uh I just want to make sure we've thought through this whole process because absolutely and I and I say this

[0:41:15] again because of we want to grow our economy we want new businesses we want new opportunities to come to the table and we don't want to miss out on those based off of of having a bad policy or a bad ordinance that's dated and not been re-reviewed on the other hand I also know what our property tax dollars do in terms of supporting and paying for our fire and police so I want to make sure we have a thorough conversation about this policy and I think it needs a lot I think it needs some more conversation before approved but I think we have to be realistic that most cities do tax abatements I'm not sure they started this level of conversation and maybe they do but I'd like to be informed and have a little more information about that before we sign off on it but obviously it's something we need to look at and a new policy that we need to address and take action on it maybe this is not the the appropriate time to discuss it but is there a feel for what maybe a minimum capital investment or a minimum number of jobs would be before we would consider think wanted to say something before we I continue may I just want to clarify you you just took the words right out of my mouth as well I think that there's definitely a benefit and we're not hearing from the council members that we don't want to do a tax Abad I'm sure that's not we're hearing at this point no it's there there's definitely a benefit to it and we have to away those benefits Mary you talked about the the tax how this affects our taxes but we also of course have to take a look at the impact economically for the project that we're uh looking at doing a tax abatement on uh this is a really good healthy discussion you know I don't think that at this point council members need to maybe give what the minimum would be we can work on that at this point uh there's a presentation before us uh for city council to take a

[0:43:17] look at we're getting input at right now and we know that perhaps that number the first line is a little bit too low we may be able to incentivize with other incentives that we have rather than the actual tax tax abatement so we can go back and take a look at it and say well really we want to concentrate on those projects that would have a bigger economic impact for our community and what can we do from a tax abatement standpoint but my greatest concern is the very broad broad broad approach to the businesses that could qualify sure because the way this the system works is the following so the first year let's say the $250,000 building is built that goes into what we would call new property taxes okay but the second year is existing property tax and we can't grow our property tax base more than 3.5% otherwise we have to lower the property rate so first year we get full valuation as new property but we're going to reduce that by 20% good point the second year it goes into to existing property tax base which we can only get maximum of 3.5% without reducing what we do so if you look at that bigger broader picture I want to make sure we don't make a decision today without really going through some of these statistics and really relooking at the businesses that we now opening the door to qualify 54 okay and I think tax abatement is part of the game everybody does it and certainly the county has been um been very beneficial has received very beneficial benefits of large projects called solar and wind and they've been able to give them a larger

[0:45:20] percentage in year one of tax abatement but those projects also do not bring bring to the table new jobs after they're built they go from perhaps 75 people working on building or 100 people working on the project down to one person being employed on that project when it's completed and that is quite possible yes right so I just want to make sure we re number one relook at all the the window and the types of businesses that we're now allowing to apply for for rebate I think that number one is a question do we because it's basically saying every business has an opportunity for tax abatement based off of that list you just read in fact I can't think of one that isn't available or couldn't qualify technically that would what you're the the case you're stating is correct yes yes so everybody would qualify for tax abatement mayor let us take this back by committee to take a look at the the adjustments and changes need to be made I think it's pretty smart to look at it from the perspective of what we're dealing with right now is a 3 and a half% limitation so how do we tie that into this tax abatement so let us go back by committee take a look at it and come back and do a presentation of city council based on that but we know we need to do something yes ma'am it's not I want to make sure I'm not misunderstood we need to do a batement at some point some level yes Tom so Bob help me a little bit here as far as eligibility is this somebody that hasn't done business within the city or can it already be somebody that is doing business in the city but is expanding if they if they were going to expand yes they they could be eligible so every Bank every restaurant everybody that's on that list that comes out every quarter would actually probably fall under this that's correct could fall under this yes every shine I mean every oil chain shop

[0:47:25] every ch I mean chain restaurant everything and I think that's just I'll just throw this out here and try to keep the short version I think that's way too broad I think we have a ton of people that have already made a decision that they're going to be here but I never want a handicapped handicap our Economic Development okay and and I know we're granted a lot of leeway to approve you know basically a line item veto whether we want something to go or not go my question is have we ever been passed over I mean do y'all have this is for you and Michael have we been passed over by people that said no I didn't get a tax payment so I'm going to abene or I'm going to Midland Odessa or something like that I just I know it's a tool and you have to have it to play that card to get him to be here I think a lot of times those decisions are made here we're coming anyway but I I will agree with Brenda that there's a lot of scope here from side to side that would take people that have already agreed to do it and take their expansion produ act and give them a tax abatement when it's not really necessary and I mean we need every penny we can get to get our budget so I mean I'm just throwing some things out there but I do think the scope and how broad we put it as far as eligibility creates some things that I think are unnecessary all right they're coming anyway but I mean to me it's people that you're looking to bring here that would qualify for a tax payment that I I believe that's a condition we could put on it it would be only new companies and or a significant expansion and we could we we could determine that you know but I don't want to it's like the sidetail tower thing I mean those are existing companies but it's a huge Tower and they're making a large investment there and this started it was the Catalyst to this whole thing so I get the point but I'm just throwing out some topics that are I think if you look at that development sheet we get once a quarter of all the new businesses that have filed there's several you know you know millions of dollars on there that

[0:49:30] instantly we would lose 20 30 40% on that I don't that we that we wouldn't I mean we're basically giving that back so that's my two cents were I think it's too broad and too lenient and I think we need to do a lot more research um before we sign off on something so I don't think we should be given tax abatement to everybody and most businesses um chain restaurants Etc other types of business look at a city first and foremost because they think it's a city that they can do business in they find us we don't find them and they're looking at us already for an opportunity for their company so I I I think we need to pull back the conversation relook at it have a better holistic approach to this program let me let me throw a couple more questions in if I may Tommy um I would be interested to know Bob you know uh how how many abatements um and I know it's going to vary it's going to be a up and down sort of thing but how many abatements um have we granted in the past have we uh uh offered and it's already been thrown out here how many have we lost because we didn't offer an abatement I don't know that I can answer that Tommy okay because we don't we normally don't get that feedback do you have a feel for that I I don't believe we have lost anyone because of the tax abatement policy again most of the tax abatement policies that exist and have existed over the past few years is because of the wind and solar Farms they have been the biggest generators of investment and tax abatement requests and the county would tell you it's 100% of their tax EV conversation again as I said or maybe I didn't men this the 15 years I've been here we haven't done any yes so do so another question whe whether you can answer it now or not but

[0:51:34] when you come back um does a business more often ask for an abatement or is it more often that an abatement is offered by someone us County again you may not be able to answer that now but I would be interested in in that um and as as far as the county is concerned no no just far as City's concerned you know to Tom's point and it's a very valid point it's a very important conversation is that list that we get of um every month on expansions Etc people choose to expand because the business they believe is there they open up a third location or a second location because they know they're missing business I think what we want to make sure we do is is understand what industries we might be interested in recruiting that this would be important for not to just be handing out gifts to businesses that want to come here because the business opportunity exists for their market and or expand because the business is strong enough for expansion we those new taxes the taxation property taxes of new businesses are very ke key to our overall Financial property tax dollar conversation as it relates to funding fire and police and we know now that our property tax dollars do not cover the operations of fire and police we're having to dip into our sales tax dollars to cover the public safety aspect so it's a delicate situation between deciding what the right policy is and making sure we don't give up some opportunities versus what we need to do to protect the Financial Security um as far as

[0:53:37] the how we proceed from here I know there was a we had to have a 75% vote to pass it so it would have to be six to approve I I think we can just take it as Direction and and bring it back yeah not take action Larry had a question or comment to make bottom are we Frozen for all five years at that 75% or can that be adjusted it can be adjusted we it could be 1% change every year it could be a different percent but I think we what what our intent was was to give you as much flexibility as possible so you could say um if it was a 750,000 I'm just picking that one you could say well we're going to do 40% for but we're only going to do it for three years or we're going to do 20% for three years uh the other thing that and and I don't mean to blor this but the other thing that the E that the Development Corporation does is we run a a return on investment on everything we do we can run that same return and investment analysis on a on a tax AB bment in my mind okay uh the first year let's talk about the energy storage that's here they're not moving it they've made the capital investment for that to create that uh I guess I wonder about why we would suggest a serious tax abatement after we got them there well we wouldn't now but that's the point is there people many people come to markets because the market is there for their business people know our city very often better than we do because those corporations study us they know us they know the traffic patterns they know the industry they know the market better than we all do and they're going to look at us not because of the tax ta abatement policy necessarily but because of the market opportunity I think we want to uh table this and have additional conversation about it and relook at this information

[0:55:41] and come back and bring it back if we I think I think it's absolutely the right conversation to have and we might benefit from the experience of one more budget cycle before we make a final decision on this um you know we're talking about this being a difficult budget year we've got some challenges and the the property tax is going to be challenged to cover all those things you mentioned mayor so we'll we'll take it back and do some more research and we'll bring it back um we we'll consult with Daniel for an appropriate time to bring it back perfect thank you very much thank you you with that this concludes the regular agenda conversation and items so we do not have a closed session so we'll move into our followup and administrative issues are there any announcements or consideration from anyone on council at this point for future meetings then I would like to have a motion for adjournment so move second anybody opposed I don't hear any comments

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=NrOExbkKIj8