San Angelo City Council 8-28-18

[0:00:00] small agenda special agenda item that we need to approve before we move into the budget workshop and soon the special agenda it's a consider resolution supporting Tom Green County and their efforts to amend the defense economic adjustment assistance grant supporting Goodfella Air Force Base where as good fill Air Force Base is located in the city of San Angelo Tom Green County Texas and is a city's largest employer and whereas the mission of Goodfella air force bases Intelligence Surveillance reconnaissance and fire training for all the branches of the United States military and Tom Green County and whereas the Texas military preparedness commission within the office of the governor of Texas established a grant program known as a defense economic Adjustment Assistance to provide state funding for the fine acquiring federal great assistance for sharing in the cost of redevelopment of communities that have been adversely or positively affected by the Base Realignment and closure act or Department of Defense reduction of or loss of funding or in the case of infrastructure that's military value installation and whereas this program enabled Goodfella Air Force Base to renovate the buildings in 2017 for intelligence training that was extended to 32 Allied countries and whereas Goodfella Air Force Base with the support of tom green county in the city of san angelo Development Corporation was awarded a defense economic adjustment grant on December 15 2017 to expand a dining facility renovate to classroom training facilities deliver capital equipment and develop a new joint center for targeting and weaponry and whereas the Texas military preparedness commission has indicted indicated additional funding is available for the current projects upon request and a minute application and whereas the city is honored by the recognition and support governor Abbott and the state of Texas has previously shown good fellow Air Force Base now therefore be it resolved that the city of San Angeles City Council recognizes the importance of good fellow Air Force

[0:02:02] Base to the success of the mission of our military and is hereby fully supports tom green county's efforts to seek an amendment to the defense economic adjustment assistance grant and the request for additional funding from the military preparedness commission to support the vital operations of good fill Air Force Base with that having been read I would ask for a motion from the council to approve the resolution a second all in favor say aye aye Pass is 7-0 with that I will now ask for an adjournment of this special meeting all in favor say aye motion passes the resolution is approved we will now call the budget workshop to order notice notice is hereby given of a special meeting of the City Council the city of San Angelo to be held on August 28 2018 at 8:30 8:40 a.m. at the McNeese Convention Center south meeting room 501 ryokan shall drive San Angelo Texas for the purpose of considering the following agenda items in the workshop agenda a is discussion of matters regarding the fiscal year 2018 2019 budget presentation including but not limited to one general fund revenue and expenditures to priorities and goals and three other items needing council direction Tina your on city council mr. Valenzuela we're gonna start out by going through our general fund revenues and expenditures and then we'll present to you some potential opportunities for councils consideration today on this first slide here we have a summary of the revenue sources and the expenditures that we're proposing in this budget for

[0:04:04] fiscal year 2019 you'll see here that we have a property tax increase that we're projecting at $550,000 a long way the $52,000 52,000 dollar increase in our delinquent tax revenue budget for a total of about $600,000 there of increase for sales tax we're projecting an increase of 850 thousand dollars also included in this number though is sales alcoholic beverage tax and bingo tax so that's why it's not the exact eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars in that code one should note that the seventeen thousand four hundred seventeen dollars five hundred twenty six is actual a budget number and not a forecast that's correct we need to make sure we understand that yes ma'am our fiscal year 18 budget four sales tax along with 17 million flat we're projecting and this proposal is seventeen thousand eight hundred fifty thousand it's only seventeen million eight hundred fifty thousand pardon me okay so for franchise tax there's an increase there as well that's largely due to the change in the Atmos contract moving from 4 percent to 5 percent of franchise fees I'm sorry gross sales and charges for service increased largely due to the increase and the ambulance fees that council approved earlier this year also along with that is an increase in the charges for Municipal Court of about seventy two thousand dollars your other revenue there decreased due to the transfer from the Development Corporation that we were receiving in the past to aid in park maintenance by an increase in our interest income of about ninety thousand dollars for personnel the personnel expenditure budget has increased about three hundred thousand dollars this does include an additional five police officers at a cost of about three hundred thirty thousand dollars if not for that we would actually have seen a slight decrease in our personnel budget onm has increased due to an increase in retiree insurance and increase in the appraisal district fee the fire has increased its contract services and the twenty five thousand dollars for the

[0:06:07] police uniforms and weapons for those additional five officers our transfers I'm sorry transfers is an increase due to the reallocation of the property casualty insurance when we increased the amounts due from Fort Concho or Texas Bank Sports Complex or any other general fund supported fund we then increased our transfer out to aid in supplementing that additional expenditure alright let's stop there let's dig into this so on the property tax for the two style 2017-18 that's an actual number no all right what's the actual number we're projecting to end the fiscal year eighteen point four million dollars tax for fiscal year eighteen was budgeted at ninety eight percent as we always do of what the appraisal district tells us and so our property tax year-to-date is 33 million three hundred thirty seven thousand dollars okay so that's year-to-date so that's through July through July yes ma'am that's everything from which August and September left what is your projected on property tax we expect to end the year over budget for property tax how much I can't project that I can go back and look at August and September of last year and and give you that number here in a second I'll have my staff thirty three million three hundred thirty seven thousand what percent of right ninety-nine percent of our revenue budget okay so that's pretty much standard so you would say then if we are at this point thirty three million three hundred thirty-seven and that's ninety nine percent of the number that's pretty much the number pretty close yes ma'am okay that would be not in other words we would miss the budget for 1718 no ma'am

[0:08:17] we don't expect to miss the budget the number you just gave me is thirty three million three hundred thirty-seven thousand and the property tax budget for 1718 is thirty three million seven hundred fifty three yes ma'am we still have two months worth of collections I'll have I'll have my staff check and see what we received last year in those two months and try to give you a projection but the number you just gave me is 99 percent already yes ma'am there are other accounts in there yeah there's also delinquent taxes in that account as well and then on sales tax let's go through you have your liquor tax yes ma'am and that's being planned how up or down please put all your cell phones on silent that includes you too [Laughter] we're projecting is like slightly down slight decrease in liquor tax yes ma'am and the rationale for that is we're using a five-year trend okay so in sales tax other than liquor tax what else is in there bingo tax and the bingo tax we're planning how you go tax we're projecting flat because we only receive it once a

[0:10:26] year we have not received that this year from the Comptroller when do you receive it usually in September so the three things in the sales tax are the bingo tax which is being planned flat the liquor tax which is being planned down so what's remaining is planned how this remaining is the sales tax yes dollars yes ma'am what percent up or down don't take out your liquor tax and maybe notice in this proposal that we're showing you right now is down three percent from actual receipts that we're projecting for the current year so if you take a look at total revenue well just let me ask one more thing so your charges for services which is the ambulance is your 27:18 number is obviously budget what's the projection okay so ambulance fees come in with a to 2 months leg so we're projecting to end of the year pretty much right at where we budgeted so the 9 million for oh no there's more in charges for service and ambulance the increase there is largely due to the ambulance fee increase so that's increase in fee not increase in service charges for services includes a lot of things such as ambulance Nature Center recreation the swimming pool there's there's probably 10 or so you go through those and tell us how they're planned I don't think the audience has a blue book in front of him and the Blue Book is the budget we're talking about

[0:12:30] the plan for 2018-19 we're projecting for real estate to be up $19,000 construction management a decrease of $14,000 development services an increase of 38,000 $800 Parks and Rec an increase of 33,000 $400 neighborhood and Family Services down $3,900 police up $900 fire up $170,000 and other charges down $1,000 for a total of an increase of two hundred forty two thousand dollars then we also have in their municipal court fees which were projecting an increase of seventy two thousand dollars so that's the total that you see there and that is okay then go down to the other line because it charges for services we just went through now on the other line what's included in the that column there is an increase in interest of $90,000 an increase in other miscellaneous revenues of $32,000 a decrease in miscellaneous transfers in of $339,000 which again includes that transferring from the Development Corporation and a decrease in administrative charges of $16,000 so if you look at the two 2018-2019 budget relative to the 2017-18 forecast what percent increase are we planning on revenue its total revenue line here the 74 million is that what you're asking compared to the action what we're projecting using where we're at today in

[0:14:33] the Blue Book for to 2017 and 2018 so right now we know that you're projecting in sales tax eighteen million four hundred and sixteen thousand four hundred dollars for 2017-18 so where you have a sales tax on here 17 million four you're basically going to be up a million dollars in total revenue compared to the budget for 2017 18 correct for sales tax alone the budget is 17 million dollars and we're projecting by yeren to have 18 million $400,000 that's what I just said so that means that with that increase your total revenue for 17 18 would be approximately 73 million two hundred thirty two thousand two hundred dollars is that correct I don't think I'm following on your question I'm sorry what we have in front of us is a 2017-18 budget yes ma'am what are we projecting for the year not the budget but the projection because we already know in the sales tax column we're projecting eighteen million four hundred sixteen thousand four hundred dollars not the sales tax budget of seventeen million four hundred seventeen so the point is is it looks like your total revenue for 2017 and eighteen is going to be up a million dollars over the plan or the budget actually I think it's a little over a million because we I mean Elvis we have to forecast August in September so we could use the plan for August and September plus we're doing a calculation on that for

[0:16:41] you just one second please and tell you at the end of July we were at 91% of our revenue budget it's very difficult to project a total budget number like that because there are probably 50 to 75 accounts included in that number and so I'd have to go through every single one of those accounts and do a projection for you with two months left in the year though I can't say that that is a pretty a pretty good number we should have been at 83% of our revenue budget and we're at 91% correct so but when we're talking when we're talking about how we're going to plan 2018-19 we need to understand what percent increase are we planning on revenue over 2017-18 actuals so we need to know that number and I believe that number is about a 1.5 percent increase if you put if you put into the sales tax column only your projected sales tax you come up with about a 1.5 percent increase in revenue versus the budget I think well the projection for revenue for next year is contained in the 2018-19 column that's their projection for next year except for sales tax which is probably overly conservative at this point agree but if we use where we're at on sales

[0:18:46] tax at the end of July and add the August and September plan even if it's just flat what number do you get i'm just want to make sure that I'm clear on this so 2017 2018 specifically sales tax we should be at 18,400 whatever saying it would say minimally you should be at 73 million five hundred right okay so I see what you're saying so you want to and make sure that we add up over protecting to end the year at 2017 2018 based on the actuals up to this point so that sales tax should be up over 18 18 the number we've in the information that we've been provided you've projected sales tax at 18 million for sixteen four hundred yes but that's not what's in the budget that's not what's in the proposed budget proposed budget no we're trying to look at a trend line trend line means where are you projected to and in revenue at the end of 2017 18 which would be September 30th right using your sales tax number that would basically so if you just take the increase in sales tax number that you have today plus your actual or you plan Haga September you would come up with a number somewhere in the 73 million their mayor they've done those projections on an individual account basis because each of the revenue patterns is different so what you're asking to do overall they've done account by account the only one which at this point we have a question about is how aggressive to be with the sales tax budget we would suggest because of the diversity in the collection pattern for example bingo tax we haven't even received yet but because of the diversity it's a more accurate methodology to project those trends on an account by account basis and leat let that lead you to what the overall answer is you appear to be trying to take the

[0:20:51] determine the overall and project based on overall and and we would propose that it's more accurate to do it on an account by account basis that we just went through that that's what she seventy four point three five million plus whatever additional amount you want for sales tax we're projecting the end the year at seventy three million nine hundred seventeen thousand dollars which is over our budget correct so if you have seventy three million nine hundred thousand right - your budget plan for 1819 of seventy four million three hundred fifty four three sixty four what increases that the dollar amount increase is one point four million dollars okay so if you take one million four hundred dollars divided by your projected 27:18 you will give us a percent increase plan for this budget for 2018-19 am i can do that did you say seventy three nine yeah that's just 473 9 274 373 9 is where our current year budget and it increases over $600,000 on you on your property tax so that's more than if you take that in straight-line years and your sales tax that's more than the 74 354 based on your conservative figure of 3% down if you went to one and a half percent as a conservative conservative figure this number would probably increase is that correct correct okay so we can look at 74 354 and say that that's 3% down from the projected sales tax revenue for 1718 and if we decided that that was too conservative and went to one and a half

[0:22:56] percent down from the 1718 four year sales tax for 1819 that would give you an additional amount of money under the total revenue is that that's correct that's why we're talking about it Harry you don't mind it yes can I say something yes ma'am the 1.8 million dollar increase to revenue that you see there the total increase that we're projecting here in proposing that is a two and a half percent increase over our current year projected actuals is that what you were asking yeah because a minute ago we said we were planned three percent down okay the you said the projected actuals are 73 nine yes 73 nine plus 400 is seventy four three yes the difference is four hundred thousand that's less than one percent yes point eight percent I believe so that's where we need to be in conversation because they think when we originally started we said we were down three percent and planned revenues that might be to budget let's just that one line item one line item out of all of those revenue line item is his debt budgeted down from this year's projected actual sales tax is not the only revenue line no but let me make sure I understand this because a minute ago we said that the sales tax number pre projected for 2018 is eighteen million four hundred sixteen thousand four hundred is that correct yes okay so if the sales tax revenue for year ending September 30 of 2018 is eighteen million four hundred sixteen thousand four hundred right yes okay so if you take a look at that compared to the budget plan of eighteen million two hundred and fifty seven thousand what percent down is that about 0.08 eighteen to contains more than just sales tax I understand

[0:25:01] that Michael but what they said to us a minute ago was the sales tax number projected projected is eighteen million four hundred sixteen thousand four hundred that's what you've given me as a number right whatever is in there it's still the projected number on here right yes it's less three percent down 3 percent seventeen eight or seventeen eight fifty eighteen million four hundred sixteen thousand four hundred is a zero percent change so that means you're projecting eighteen million four hundred sixteen thousand four hundred it's right there zero percent change that is what we're projecting to end this year those not what we're proposing in the budget the poll I know seeing in the budget is the three percent decrease exactly but if you are projecting a zero percent change in your sales tax projection of all the things that make up sales tax whatever they are which we just discussed what they are you're projecting eighteen million four hundred sixteen thousand four hundred right no the current year not for this budget I know the current year's 2017-18 correct 2017-18 if we planned it flat it would be eighteen million four hundred sixteen thousand four hundred right so saying that and looking at your 2018-19 budget of eighteen million two hundred fifty seven thousand is a to mall most two hundred thousand dollar difference right oh not for sales tax eighteen to contains sales tax mixed beverage tax in bingo tax but so does the eighteen million four hundred sixteen thousand right if you plug that eighteen for in to that line could you go back to the other slide please if you plug the 18 four into that line that line goes up by five hundred thousand and change you're talking about the difference between a

[0:27:07] combination of three different revenue streams I think that's the misunderstanding the sales tax number that we're projecting projecting at 18 for is just sales tax alone no bingo no mixed beverage included in that number gonna so if you were to add the the eighteen for seventeen plus all the other items that go in that line then 2017-2018 would be a higher number on that sales tax timer correct yes over eight point eight million okay so two point eight okay that's what we needed the number to be so when you project it down by three percent you're using eighteen million eight know when we're projecting sales taxes sales tax alone we just group them on the schedule together to make the schedules simpler and not have so many lines all right but we just need to understand what that is so because if we just say sales tax and you look at your forecast sales tax alone you're playing to be eighteen million for sixteen four hundred that's correct okay and then you're going to add into that the additional items bingo tax alcohol tax etc so we go ahead someone you do that so so we started with seventeen thousand eight hundred and fifty thousand which is that three percent decrease that we've discussed then we added in bingo tax at around three hundred seventy five thousand dollars I mean I'm sorry beverage tax of 375 and bingo tax of about $43,000 and that gets you to the 18 million 257 million 257 is a combination of bingo tax alcohol tax and sales tax yes ma'am okay so that's your 18 million 257 budget and your 2017 18 if you take your sales tax line pleasure bingo tax plus your alcohol tax you're at 18 million 800 yes that's correct okay that way we better understand what we're projecting in revenue because

[0:29:11] right now it would say that if you take a look at your sales tax this is based off of a budget for 2017-18 but were what we say 83% through we are at the end of July we were 83% through the year and we had collected 91% of projected revenues our budgeted revenues so what we're really trying to do right now it's great that we're looking at numbers for 2018-19 budget compared to the budget of 2017 18 but what we really have to talk about is the actuals as projected yes ma'am Blue Book and forecasts and everything that is on this page and proposed in this budget is based on us doing that in the background okay so that means your total revenue then for 2017 18 is going to be projected to be what number I believe I said that earlier it was the 74 million nine hundred thousand seven you said 73 now what you said if you have 7399 pardon me as you projected 2017 18 compared to your right now budget plan of 74 million three hundred and fifty four thousand three hundred sixty four your planned increase is you want a percentage B five five tenths of a percent I believe in change he's one half I think it's one half of 1% is what I think it is yeah but that is at the lower sales tax estimate mayor yes it's that's what we're time trying to get to instead of budget what are we really looking at relative to where we're trendy and that's what you're giving me oh that with the actuals being projected at 73 9 and our budget being proposed at 74 3 that would be an increase of one

[0:31:15] half of a percent okay and the dollars then would be what it was about four hundred thirty thousand okay so even though this reflects us looking at a planned budget of an increase in revenue of 1 million eight hundred fifty one thousand over the budget at 2017 we're actually looking at a four hundred thirty thousand dollar increase from year to year in this proposed budget with an ultraconservative number and therefore sales tax yes that's the number so I just want to keep making that point because 2017-18 budget was a budget approved last year in August and we've had nine months of actuals so we want to make sure we're looking at the plan to increase for the 1819 budget versus the actual projected 2017-18 right and then we do that we update that spreadsheet every month a month end and why no I'm we just want to make sure cuz this's televised people watch this yes ma'am and they don't have blue box in front of them so we want to make sure everyone who's watching this understands what we're really planning here okay all right so do I have other questions from Council on the revenue budget yes Tommy you know is is that increase in the property tax lower than what we have seen in the past or that we normally see you ever have to ask the question it is very low yes it's one point six per second one point six seven percent increase this year we're used to seeing somewhere in the neighborhood of at least three to four percent over the last 20 years we've we've been in that basic average area about 3% to 4% so it was like this yet are the evaluations that certified valuations that we've received up they are up by that one point six seven percent but in speaking with the appraisal district I'm told that we're seeing the valuation starts to level off

[0:33:20] in reasons they have given for them to start it was a sixteen hundred people who filed grievances about last year's probably and that and that is part of it they do hold back some of the certified values when they give us those valuations because they don't want to overestimate and cause us to overestimate our budget as well so I guess then on a go-forward basis we're gonna be looking at something less than three or four percent I guess we're gonna be looking at one and a half percent roughly we we definitely have to because I mean starting this this budget is Tina so what are we looking at Tina close to four percent as far as and and she actually we thought that would be the right number but when the numbers actually came through we saw one point six seven you better believe that next year when we start looking at it I'm not gonna be saying Tina what do you think four percent I'm gonna be saying hey what do you think one-and-a-half percent you know so we do have to be very conservative when it comes to that number you know Tommy also one of the things that you know we've had a lot of new companies come to town but they are going into existing facilities that were empty so we're two thousand thirteen and fourteen you saw people building new facilities we had a big jump in total dollars but right now we're filling empty buildings more than we're developing new buildings and so I think that's also if you take a look at trend from previous years that's one of the differences in terms of work it just jumped out at me they seem lower than what we had a lot of appeals this year and our chief appraiser did tell me that he held back forty four million dollars worth of valuations because they are still going through that review process and he likes to be conservative and giving us our numbers and also last year we had eighty million dollars in new construction or improvements and this year we have fifty million dollars so it's just a numerous there are numerous factors that play all right we had so many new Walmart's that came up last year you know because we still yeah if you take a look at when they came online for the appraisals it has a huge impact thanks Tina okay so Tina you're on again okay you

[0:35:31] want to go through because I got us back up into the total revenue piece of it and let's go down to the expenditures so once again let's take a look at where we're trending on expenses for the 1718 versus the budget compared to our 1819 budgets presented today so from this it says that we're up 850 thousand $64 compared to the budget at 1718 and so is the seventy three million seven hundred fifty three thousand three hundred ninety-one still the number that we are looking at so the expenditures at July 31st our total actual year-to-date we're at 79% and at eighty three percent through the year so we're trending under budget for expenditures right now and that includes encumbrances as well include - what did you say - encumbrances so if there are projects that have we know that we will have to pay for we go and encumber those then if we're looking at the 1819 budget versus the 1718 forecast the increase in expenditures number one what is this number in terms of a percent increase over last year budget and then increase over projected this year eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars is an increase of 1.2 percent over last year's budget was that your first question okay I'm a second question your forecast on actual expenditures what

[0:37:35] would that number be and what percent would that be then to the planned number therefore expenditures we forecast that departments will spend what their allotted to spend they usually will come in much less than that but counting on them not spending monies which we've already authorized is we think is less than prudent we anticipate that they will come in lower and the the kind of savings we can count on our savings in personnel where they've had significant turnover or vacancies which have lasted for extended period of time but below the the personnel line in onm and capital we anticipate that they will spend what they put into their detailed budget justifications there are detailed justifications for every line item in the budget that departments have prepared in unless we have knowledge that that an expenditure or a project won't occur we anticipate they'll spend all of that money so our projection for the year for expenditures is what was budgeted okay so what you're telling me is we're going to increase our expenditures by 1.2 percent in this budget and we're going to plan revenue 0.5 percent so we're increasing expenditures over revenue no that's if you're speaking actuals no we're not increasing yeah I'm speaking fees well go ahead no that's the question go ahead no we are not that's answering that question well we just said that the 850,000 increase here in expenditures is up 1.2 percent over the budget at 2017 18 that's correct we just discussed if you're gonna use the budget for that number you have to use the budget above

[0:39:38] as well that's why I was trying to get to a projected expenditure I understand and so he's Michael's saying we're going to spend the money that's budgeted but were increasing our revenue seventy three million nine hundred thousand so those are the numbers you guys gave me those are the numbers created on the fly the numbers we're giving you are the ones that are on the screen which show that revenue is projected up 1.8 million dollars expenditures at this point are projected up by eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars leaving you with a million dollars to allocate as you see fit have a big picture question I assume I don't know this we have a consumer price index that businesses use people used to see what the overall increase of things are in in our economy is there a municipal price index and if there is what what what is the what is the historical increase of that year-over-year there is a municipal Cost Index I have not looked it up recently but it's usually in the neighborhood of 4% so that affects us obviously as it does any municipality so does that play into y'all's your conversations at any point in time that we know we're having costs increase to us as a municipality or maybe maybe the better question is how does that figure into what what y'all work on for for the budget each year we actually do consider that and our operations department has asked me

[0:41:39] for that many times because they use that information to forecast what they think costs will be from year to year so I guess my I guess my observation is our expenditures are projected flat just based on the numbers we see on the page here but we know we are having increases in different areas how are we how are we addressing that to keep in you know in a in order to keep our expenditures flat Tommy the cost increases when you when you keep the dollars flat the cost increases squeeze services out of out of the budget in other words when the cost of sealcoat goes up but your budget does not go up you see little coat less street square footage your square yardage that's the answer I'll be on the flip side of that whenever the we see the the percentage go down and there's times that shame can actually do more more streets with the monies that we have so we do more than the one-eighth that we're planning to do to kind of make sure that we're ahead of the curb in case we do have a year when we have the services being squeezed and we can kind of balance that out so our goal of course let's say with since Mike you use that example with sealcoating streets our goal is complete the the sealcoat of streets over an 8-year period so we know they were gonna have those years so Shane at some points will actually request what we do more streets because we had additional monies left over in anticipation that we'll have those years but we're being squeezed you know so we want to make sure that we meet that goal so that's gonna affect every department because every doesn't matter what the department is within the city so I guess my observation is but you know it seems to me we do quite well with with really not a whole lot of increase in revenue and not much

[0:43:45] increase in expenditure either even though we have as a municipality we have ever increasing cost that we have to absorb so I guess Michael really answered the question it's less services for the for the citizens and what it doesn't matter what the area is it's just less service well we hope that our managers are clever enough to figure out how to get those things the same thing done great and usually they are but sometimes sometimes it's tough sometimes when the costs go up dramatically we've seen that in water we went through a spike in chemical increases a few years back and I don't know what the latest is on that but sometimes those those costs increase a spike and it does make it difficult I can also tell you that over the years the City Council the City Council is justifiably so as focused and on Public Safety you know we've made some pretty good improvements where in the PD and also in in fire department to address some of those needs and concerns but I can tell you that all the other funds when you start looking at those other funds from 2016 to 2019 expenditures for the total overall begone down that's four years you know so that's that's unheard of when you start talking about that can the municipal Cost Index so again taking that in out of the equation of course because we did make those adjustments for those two other groups I just was just following so all the other expenditures have actually remained pretty flat or gone down just a little bit to answer your question the Musil municipal Cost Index from July of this year to July of last year it's up 3.7% I'm not sure this is a right time to ask the question to questions but if it's not we'll delay it to later but where are we in terms of where we want to be on fund balance versus where we're at okay there's no hurry you take your time

[0:46:06] I'd like to say we have all day but we're hoping it won't where we are currently our current budgeted ending fund balances at 84 days and council has set a goal of 75 days we're happy with our fund balance yes ma'am and what about unfunded liabilities I'll have to pull out my kaffir one moment you're speaking about other post entire mint post somewhere we got paid for benefits and yes okay pension liability while she's looking there I'll point out that the annual burden for those post employment benefits is the burden for those items is included in the proposed budget before you so while those things are included based on generally accepted accounting principles either in liabilities or notes or both the annual cost associated with those is included in your proposed budget good because what we don't want to do like many other municipalities or organizations is end up with a pension plan that we haven't planned for and a liability we can't afford so I want to make sure we've included issues related to unfunded liabilities on pension retirement going forward that week it's planned yeah so what is your specific question then

[0:48:23] but two things one is the total unfunded liabilities which you don't have to answer on that one because you might not come up with a good number right now which is fine but Michael has answered the fact that we have included in this budget some of those what we would call unfunded liabilities so every year that has been incorporated into the actual budget so we're not ignoring it as the point yes we do meet that obligation yeah yes that's that's the key point okay yeah you've answered it so let me just recap then what I believe we've said here right now if you take a look at the 2018-19 total revenue on this plan compared to 1718 plan you're up about 2.5 percent but if you take a look at the projected revenue for 1718 to the 2018-19 plan we're up about 0.05 percent so with that being said so we're planning yeah yeah the revenue basically flat okay and then but our expenditures right now from this plan are planned up 1.2 percent over last year's budget over the budget yes yeah yes Michael said we can't anticipate anything other than the budget on expenses but we are counting on them we're not counting on or relying on we we anticipate that overall they will come in below budget thank you okay do I have further questions from Council on any specific big-picture item on revenue or expenditures okay then we will go to you have a slide that shows

[0:50:29] the 16 tene actuals no we're not doing that slide no ma'am we do have it if you wanted to see it but it's at the end of the presentation well honestly because it doesn't reflect any percentages it's just dollars it's probably not that helpful okay do you want me to move on then yes okay okay so just a reminder that we are setting the tax rate at the same amount as last year at the point seven seventy six per 100 dollars evaluation and the fiscal year nineteen valuations came in at just over five billion dollars and we budget at a 98% collection rate for that which is just under four point six million dollars we have traditionally budgeted at that 98 percent to be conservative and to make sure that we achieve our our projection and again that is a one point six seven percent increase over last year the sales tax chart that you're used to seeing just showing the trend lines for the last four years and here it's just breaking out 2015 to 2018 to show that we are trending right along that same line with 2015 being slightly up in July and August of this year well we're trending below it in the first three months or four months that's correct then we basically do the same thing and then we start to exceed the 2015 one in June that's correct and this year we don't expect to achieve what we did in 15 and 15 I think that was our biggest sales tax year ever and it was 18 point nine million dollars so we received that year just let me repeat that so in 2015 in sales tax we had 18 million 900,000 in revenue yes ma'am okay and 15 was greater than 14 yes where we want to show this slide because we thought was remarkable how close

[0:52:32] those middle months were just almost right on top of one another I think it's great to show it I think the trendline is important to look at so that's great so here is our sales tax projection again we are budgeting very conservatively right now in this proposed budget at a three percent decrease we just wanted to give you those other numbers so that you could kind of see what a ballpark figure would look like if you wanted to discuss making changes to what we proposed all right so this is where it gets a little confusing when you go back to your chart because it says a zero percent change or flat would be 18 million for which we've talked about we're planning it at 18 million - right we are planning it at 17 million eight hundred fifty thousand dollars which is right right around that 3% decrease for sales tax alone so we just need to clarify that so if you take a look at the total line of sales tax we're planning it flat no down yes not bingo tax or liquor tax that's actor planning down and bingo tax you're planning flat yes so do I have questions or comments from Council as it relates to the sales tax projection on the budgeted line right now so in the in the proposed budget you're looking at the three percent decline from the fiscal year eighteen numbers seventeen million eight hundred fifty so right at three percent I would say that that's really conservative and in my particular case I would say that we probably would be better off looking at the 1.5 percent as we go forward with this every remind citizens that have a

[0:54:35] budget is is only a projection it's a fluid document we change it regularly here it's changed regularly and any business that I've ever been associated with I changed a number of times and in business that I worked with it with Goodyear every year so we know that we're going to update that based on revenues and expenses as we go forward so I would say the 1.5% declined from these this year's sales tax is probably a more realistic number okay with that said if let's play the numbers then so if we're going to pay sales tax at 18 million 140 150 for add into that your liquor tax plan and your bingo tax plan and come up with a total number I think it's going to be eerily close to the one that the 18 416 is my is my guess is what it's going to be and can you take us back to that first slide yes but that number that you just requested Mayer is 18 million five hundred forty-seven thousand dollars eighteen million five hundred forty-seven thousand yes ma'am that number using Harry's request to look at it from a 1.5 percent increase in the 2018-19 budget we would suggest that we could look at an 18 million five forty seven instead of the 18 million to so you would be up approximately three

[0:56:38] hundred thousand two hundred ninety thousand so that's an option okay anyone on council want to talk about their feelings towards planning as a one point five percent decline versus a three percent decline any comments questions Billy because it is a projection of what we're going to do the other thing I would like to comment on is something that was said earlier about managing to the resources that we have and so I guess I have a lot of confidence and our Services Department if they say you know we're going over budget then we have to figure out a different way to manage it so I guess at this point I'm putting my trust in our directors and and managers to you know to help us manage to a very limited amount of money that we have to you know to distribute so I like Harris suggestion of the 1.5 percent and then I like the fact that our management is cognizant of the fact that you know they're gonna have to to manage a tighter ship do I have further come on and we are just to repeat the process today because I was a little confused about it we are not taking votes on anything today what we're trying to do is give direction so I just want to make sure if council feels positive about that we give the finance department some direction and Danny Danny Daniel you might my brother's name Danny so sorry how do you feel about the 1.5% decline first of all thank you for for what you

[0:58:43] said Billy I appreciate that I do want to say that a couple years ago when our sales tax dropped off by 1.2 million dollars we met every single month with the directors and we talked about what do we need to make sure do to make sure that we're not in the red at the end of the year we looked at everything we cut back we I mean we did everything we possibly could put a hiring freeze in place we did by the end of the year we actually were writing in line thank you for that confidence that's exactly what we do we look at it on a monthly month basis we make sure that we're making our adjustments how do I feel about one and a half percent I think that's a I still a conservative number but I feel comfortable with that number mayor thank you Tommy do you have a kind I did have a comment mirror I like the one five to me that is responsible budgeting to better target what our revenues are rather than giving us let's just call it a lot of money which is nice to have no doubt but it to me it's more responsible to use the one five then the three that's my comment you know and I see all sides to it but we've been asked to be ultra conservative in how we've gone through and I think it's from somebody works off a zero budget it's great it's in the year to have the extra revenue there to do things that you know what we've got this but Harry's point is well you know we we move this budget monthly I like to zero I can see the one five I mean you're not gonna get a fight out of me either way I like the zero just because if we if we manage to make some savings we have some savings at the end and it allows us to to get some of those things that we might not anticipate I mean if we had another jean storm I don't know what cause to clean up everything city like it did two years ago Jean but I like to see your line I'm not against the 1/5 but my trend is towards the zero so but I'll just leave it that I just won't put me in putting I think one of the hardest things when you go from running a business to city management is the following is that in business you tend to look for trends and you maximize

[1:00:45] whatever is happening in a trend in city business because generally speaking you're not the driver of the revenue for the receipt or you receive the revenue but you don't drive the revenue and so unlike in a business if I'll make it but if sweaters are selling great you go buy more sweaters to drive the trend higher here it's pretty hard to drive the trend higher other because the world out sorry the world out there is controlling the revenue that we have we can't make people go buy more to help increase our sales tax revenue so in that sense we have to be conservative and how we plan it on the other hand we have expenses so we need to be realistic and how we plan it so with that said it sounds like to me council is giving direction Tina to you all to use the 1.5 percent you know do you have a slide that shows us what that impact would be you want to see that number before we discuss what expenditures we're going to include as well let's this fall my kid will not do respect I just follow the plan out okay I appreciate that so here we have our pie chart that shows your revenue sources your property tax is about 46 percent of your revenue budget in the general fund your sales tax is about twenty four percent of that amount and of course you have other fines and forfeitures charges for services the franchise tax and transfers in as well when in looking back at some previous years comparing what sales tax revenue brings to the table versus property tax what it looks like to me is okay in 2015-16 the property tax represented

[1:02:50] forty four point two six percent to the total and sales tax represented twenty eight percent so with that said I don't have the sixteen seventeen or numbers but my question number one is this general fund revenue source is this based off of the plan or the actual projected actual 2017-18 so exist the plan this is the plan yes ma'am okay so with that said then we've just increased it a bit so these numbers would change but I find it interesting that that the sales tax has gone down and property tax continues to go up and ago that goes back to Tommy your question about appraisals and why so you see those numbers continue to go up and sales tax go down so we want to hopefully have a continuation of the sales tax revenue up so that it can reach us back up to 28% of the total and then charges for services are basically just go through those real quick so everyone's clear on what is included in that number the charges for services I read out the whole list earlier but that's where we have the ambulance fees the most municipal court fees and things like that so all of those services that we provide and actually have a charge for okay so if someone comes in and they are charged something to put an awning on their building where's that that would be in the charges for services okay so our planning and permits Department or permits particularly is in this charges for services and this is based off of the plan to 2018-19 is there anything dramatically different on here for what you would have

[1:04:53] projected for 1718 actually really your sales tax number would have gone up but right no there's nothing largely different with public safety making up about 52% of the general funds expenditure budget and then of course all of your other departments and divisions there as well based off of the 52% of fire and police for this budget what percentage has that been in prior years it was 52% last year as well so relatively unchanged that is even though we added five police and eight fire it would seem like it would have been last year police was 27.8 1% of the budget and this year there 27.8 7% the $300,000 is not a big impact on an 18 million dollar budget you have those slides I asked for they're not slides but those comparisons they're not in this presentation you don't have them with you which one of the budget folks

[1:06:58] prepared those the line chart didn't we see an increasing commitment to public safety yes the three-year period yes well I think we really want to talk a one-year period only because as the following is that we added five more officers and we added eight more so you wouldn't have had that in two years ago so I would think that those numbers would have changed if you combine the two the next slide that's quite a minute define what government is on here that would be city manager's office city council internal auditor HR finance all those government admin type services City Attorney Municipal Court this slide shows our expenditures by category with personnel making a large percentage at seventy point six six percent operation is a maintenance at 23.8% transfers at four point five seven percent and then of course capital at less than one percent what was personnel last year seventy point eight three percent seventy three point eight six seventy point eight three okay and that is Lane I think the number you're referring to is the number when we approved the budget what it was but what they've done is taken out a couple of the insurances out of there so that's basically you're

[1:09:03] looking at seven point eight seven yeah that's why I was too that's why okay any other questions from Council or comments from Council time question on the on the personnel that does include more PD and more Fire Department correct that includes the five additional police officers and then of course the five officers we had last year and the eight off firefighters that we had last year so here we have some other potential opportunities for council to discuss of course we've already included the five police officers in your proposed budget we also will discuss salary adjustments health insurance the fire safer grant and the peak hours ambulance so we're in year two of a four year plan to increase the number of police officers and your one last year we added five officers for a cost of three hundred twenty thousand dollars in year two we proposed adding five officers for a cost of three hundred thirty thousand dollars and this is expected for them to reach staffing levels of 1.75 authorized positions all right so what we need to discuss now then are these these five items is that right in detail yes ma'am and we have slides for each of them would you like me to move on to the next do that so starting off with salaries the police department has proposed a loyalty pay plan and steps you're one of that would cost four hundred seventy eight thousand dollars year two would be an additional two hundred thirty two thousand dollars for a total of seven hundred and ten thousand dollars and year three would be an additional seventy-five thousand dollars for a total of 885 thousand dollars the cost of the pay plan in the first year is

[1:11:11] equivalent to a 3.86 raise where we to give to the police department a raise in lieu of this pay plan I have a question ma'am yes police Billy um Tina in year one the 477 817 does that give every police officer an increase I wouldn't defer to the police department to answer that question this was created and proposed by them and so I'm not as familiar with it as they are I guess I can show you this slide okay roughly fifty three employees sworn employees will be receiving less than two percent increase everybody nobody will lose money but fifty three employees will receive less than two percent of an increase I know the officers that are in the Academy and those that are on probation are recently got off probation how many total employees are there worn employees 169 okay and the hundreds of the five additional officers that were approved for fiscal year 1870 were we able to hire those five additional and are they still with us we did at one point in time we were at one 674 city manager does have the authority to authorize five percent over the strength that y'all have given us we started the Academy we were 13 we end the Academy with six do two different things and so we're able to get six out of the Academy did we lose some on the other end yes okay so retirement kind of netted out was one that's correct

[1:13:16] we've got an Academy that just started and we've got a test coming up in October so we'll be running simultaneous academies trying to get our strength up to these numbers if you authorize two other five bodies so legitimately four eight seventeen eighteen we got one more net net adjustment one more regardless of the area Nathan and I knew this process would take several years adding an additional five officers in 2016 are out there a strength with 165 and I've always been wanting to have a working 165 on the street that doesn't include the ones in the Academy and or and in the PTO program chief Carter um what's the length of time it takes to get an officer through everything once they finished the Academy to get them on the street close to a year between the hiring process the Academy and the fill training program right about one year we have cut down our hiring process that used to extend six months we cut that down to three months do I have questions from Council so right now just to review the numbers if the loyalty pay plan and steps is considered and approved year one would be a four hundred seventy seven thousand eight seventeen year to two hundred thirty two thousand and year three hundred seventy four thousand so in a three year window just on the loyalty pay and steps would be a combined eight hundred eighty four thousand nine hundred fifty six right yes ma'am does what was presented to us yes you know would you go back to the other slide that shows to the individual percentages just a real quick question here just so that I can answer the citizens out there it appears like in a lot of

[1:15:22] these things that the higher you go up the scale the greater that increase in percentages are can you address that I mean as as to what what citizens see that's correct what you're saying there are supervisory positions and the majority of those employees are tenured employees the loyalty plan is based on seniority as you see there I'll use me for a reference I'm a 26 year employee so you basically get $300 per year per service so do the math 26 years times three hundred three hundred dollars so the same with assistant Chiefs ones back here he's got 33 years of service so it's based on loyalty it's based on seniority that's why you see the upper end of our department receiving more of a percentage than the lower end it gets a little confusing is if you look at Pio 170 point seven two percent then it goes up Pio to five percent and down to three percent then up to three a little more than three and then down to two percent it seems a little odd can you go through why that is I'll have to ask Nolan our budget analyst to come forward well he's on his way what chief would you say that this plan would help with retention I think it will and it also helps many officers were frozen in steps through me and confer as you know the contract ended in October 2017 we were asked by city staff to come up with a pay plan in which we did this was fabricated back in April I stand behind it this is something that the fire department has been receiving since 2014 this plan is very comparable to the fire departments with the exception it does have some steps our pay plan years ago started with 24 steps I mean confer it reduced it to 13 steps this plan reduces it to six steps where let me just ask one other question

[1:17:28] based off of the question about loyalty and sticking with it going through it obvious my gut instinct and that doesn't mean it's correct my gut instinct would be that you would lose more people in the PIO one two three and four more than you're gonna lose them at sergeant up to chief would it would seem that to me we would hope not we hope this weight urges people to actually promote because there are step increases there good morning good morning so the difference is that you're seeing at each step to move into the different steps it's it's going to be your base so for example to move from po1 those are our officers that have invested two to four years with our agency once you hit that po2 step that's when you've hit your four and you won't move out of po2 until you hit your seven so these steps are kind of rooted in the number of years that they've been with our agency and that's where the movement comes now the reason that you're seeing those weird numbers the increases and decreases between the steps is you're seeing that in some cases we had gaps in service and some of our officers so that became a really difficult thing to work through because we start seeing okay these people have gaps in service so what is their total service state with the city and then what's their actual hire date or anniversary date how do we reconcile that to prevent them from taking a pay cut through this because if we base it solely on years it becomes really difficult to make sure that we don't have any zero men that are just gonna you know net zero or anybody taking a loss so what's some steps we really had to look and be you know go line by line person by person and ensure that those people weren't gonna take a loss so in some of those steps you have a few lateral transfers a po6 is going to be one of those where you see that 3.9 8 percent raise that's the most significant increase that you'll see when you move from Step five to step six but it's not as significant as we would have liked it to be because in that step

[1:19:30] alone we have a number of lateral transfers that are experiencing that gap in service where we really had to kind of set the basis where they feel like they are getting an increase when they move because that's important that's one of the biggest retention procedures that we have when you move steps do you feel like you're getting the the raise that you're entitled to the race that you deserve also you know every year there they're gonna get that $300 for that additional year in service so we want to make sure that they understand that you know you're gonna get that loyalty pay every year that you serve our agency you're gonna get that $300 and so so they need to have that in the back of their mind but at the same time we're setting the basis to be competitive with benchmark cities which is important because we want to keep them here we invest a lot of time and a lot of capital into training these employees we want to do as best as we can to set those bases competitively but not set them at a level where we can no longer afford our personnel so that became the issue in setting these bases so that's why you're seeing the numbers where they're at where do you lose most people is it in the pit in the first two to four years yes ma'am especially in this case so that becomes the question then if we lose more of them in the PIO one area in the two to four years when I'm going to talk out loud because I have to make sure yes ma'am so if you go from year 2 to year 3 you get a bump in your three two year four you get a bump yes ma'am so even though it's two to four years every year there's an increase yes I mean here's why it gets confusing because if you have the lowest percentage on the lowest level of salary it's the less the the smallest dollar amount that you receive unlike if you're at the higher level because of years of service you get a larger percent which means a lot or larger dollar increase so how does this saying that how does this keep people here so number one the

[1:21:33] reason that the lower ranks are gonna show a lower increase is because from the time that they start out as a recruit to the time that they get off of probation they're gonna see about a six thousand dollar race so when you're talking a salary of about $42,000 a year that that's a rough amount about $42,000 a year for a recruit from the time that they start as a recruit when they're hired to the time that they get off of probation they're gonna see in that two years about a $6,000 raise which if you talk about 1/7 of your you know salary that's a pretty significant increase over the period of two years compared to what general employees get or employees receive in general so that's gonna be kind of your first thing so that's how we try to keep the people at the lowest level that recruits moving through the PIO process we try to keep them here that way you know you're gonna get that increase when you come off of probation and you know you're gonna get that increase when you hit your to 3,000 when you come off of probation and 3,000 when you hit your two but the percentage increase is gonna be lower at the lower ranks because as you start to move through those ranks and as you start to move through those steps those people are gonna have more years and when you start talking in terms of three hundred dollars per year of service that's significant and generally you're more tenured employees are gonna promote in his case 26 years or in the case of one of our assistant Chiefs 33 the dollar amount is most significant at the top of our organization yes ma'am so that would mean that from going from recruit to probation is a 14% increase a relatively yes ma'am 170 that 14% increase there is another 3,000 so you're now at 48,000 as probation and then as you go from 48,000 probation to 1 you get another 3,000 so you go in 42,000 to 51,000 in what time period steps I can go grab them just

[1:23:37] here for a second see you can see the years here while we wait an event I'd like to ask Tina a question Tina in year one what would be the total salaries for the police department I know the implementing this program would be 477 817 but what would be the total dollars for you one okay let me let me make that calculation thank you that is it would be 17 million $322,000 again 17 million three hundred twenty two thousand five twenty nine that would be the salary budget for police if we included this amount and that does also of course include the five additional officers as well with that what percentage is that to the total plan then because based off of the original the general fund expenditures by category we have police at twenty seven point eight seven percent right if you don't mind do you see some

[1:25:49] savings I mean is there anything here that this program improves over what you currently have or is there a way where it helps us we aren't seeing here I mean is there something we're not asking that we need to ask is there something here that we don't see I mean you're looking at retention in ways to improve this and we know it's hard to get people on specially if it takes a year to go and this is just the first step as you know we can confer had all control over this other than this year so this is just one step that we're working on in the future there's more incentives that I would like to be more competitive or comparable with Fire Department keep in mind we haven't got there yet but I know it's been introduced or possibly introduced a 2% raise for employees this plan is 477230 thousand dollars so you're only talking about a difference of two hundred thousand dollars in change to implement the program well are we a meet but we're not meet and confer are we no ma'am no ma'am it's strictly on my shoulders right now and I will say that the chief and I and this isn't Chiefs meet every Friday so there's issues that are there that are brought up that we address we come back and I address it again in the following week so anything really that pops up it's I think it's worked really well I am a very appreciative of the chief and what they've done as far as the cutbacks on the overtime and other initiatives that we're working on and will continue working on those on them on a weekly basis when we meet for coffee so the coffee is pretty good by the way but anyway it's um it's been pretty good and we'll continue that going follow up with your questions in this year's budget I mean there's money available at the end of the year to actually fund this but I've been told that through salary savings and fuel savings it'll be

[1:27:51] rolled back over to to the rainy day fund or the leftover fun for tonight so go back through that again chief Carter you talk sues that number again that you definitely shaving the fuel savings cost yes I'll revert to Noland on exact figures I've got a good figure in my mind but he's more exact okay so just do two vacancies that we've had both in our civilian accounts the police department is one of those kind of complex animals where we actually have public safety communications which are going to be one entity in and of itself and then you have our police budget and when we start looking at our salary employees we separate and we delineate our civilian employees and our sworn employees to separate salary accounts so whenever we have vacancies there we kind of have to look at it on a holistic level and see how much savings do we have and then what is a use that we can you know how can we use those savings we want we run a program called traffic safety program so we do everything that we can to try to cut back in our general overtime overtime as a result of criminal homicide overtime as a result of special events that go on with the school district or the boat races or any kind of parades and that really makes a significant impact on our bottom line and every time that we're having to you know staff these events and and have full-time employees out there it creates a significant impact on a financial burden on organization so then what we have to do at that point is be as conservative as we can and the chief has taken measures to reduce the detectives shifts from the 10-hour shifts to the eight hour shifts and reduce our patrol shifts from the four tends to the 12 so we're hoping that these measures that we take are gonna get us to where we need to be in our savings levels to where we can roll back some of that money into the general fund and have more of a fund balance for our organization so that we're not operating at a deficit each year mayor this year we're planning on capturing some of those savings especially we talked about the sales tax revenues coming in probably about at one point four million

[1:29:52] dollars in excess so they have a dire need for vehicles that need to be addressed typically will purchase about twelve vehicles per year they have some chargers that they've had a lot of problems with and I hate to say they're just a Dodge product because that's what I Drive real issues so this year we're gonna be projecting but we're going to be planning for is to purchase an additional 12 vehicles to make sure that those vehicles that are broken down always at the shop and slowing down the progress for the police department are actually replaced so we'll talk a little bit later about that being able to use those monies toward that but that's something that we want to make sure we commit to as well yes Billy go ahead I was just going to ask Nolan yes ma'am you mentioned sworn officers versus non sworn officers where do they fit in this list to do they I mean how we taking care of them what's your proposal okay so the sworn employees are covered under this pay plan okay so you're sworn employees are gonna be your patrol officers your detectives your supervisors all of anybody who wears the badge and acts in a police capacity is gonna be your sworn employee the police department also has 35 civilian employees so maintenance technicians crime scene investigators myself administrative staff that also support the organization they are subject to whatever race is the general employees receive so when y'all make a decision to you know award general races that applies to the other 35 employees at the department okay so I guess to answer your question civilian employees are not included in this pay plan okay so I'm not really sure how to answer the ask this question so I hope I don't step out of line here but if we you know move forward looking at this police loyalty plan and consider looking at a favorable result for this that you have on the

[1:31:58] screen now and look at the 35 non sworn officers under a different plan but not to include this what would that mean for you chief maybe that's a question for you and I understand what the mayor said we're not making a decision here but just you know for my clarity is when we do to make a decision so say you're sworn officers can I say if this is Don and approved can I say that without been illegal if this is worn on and approved Teresa I mean voted on and approved that say we vote in favor of this 35 sworn officers understood what no one supports they I'm sure you feel they're entitled to something so say that we voted on a 2% increase for them only but not for this what what would be your response chief I'm fine with that I think every employee in the city deserves more but I do realize that it boils down to money but I would be content with this with this Warrant Officer and 2% for my civilian staff at this point okay because I just noticed that we have a 3.8 percent raise with this 477 as we've been presented savage our numbers were actually 3.3 on the average and and again like I said fifty three of these warned will be receiving less than two percent but this is a starting point and when it's based on seniority it's based on longevity and whether y'all grantor

[1:34:03] raise from years on forward they'll at least receive three hundred dollars a year you know that was going to be my question or comment is is that adopting this loyalty pay plan might in fact mean that the loyalty pay plan is the only raise and that there wouldn't be additional raises on top of the loyalty plan that's strictly up to council right I'm just it's a general conversation and we looked at that 50 three employee that's getting less per to 2% and tried to give them additional 1% but with being civil service you all have to pay unfairly so we were unable to do that so you are strongly proposing adoption of the loyalty pay plan versus a normal percent increase yearly I don't want to be greedy but in a peripheral perfect world I'd like to see this in a 1% raise which will balance the 53 employees that aren't receiving the 2% yes I mean since you brought that up mayor I guess I'd asked what that difference is from that 477 to a flat 2% roughly two hundred thirty thousand yes Lucy please know when you were doing this step steps will you have the longevity in there already and then you have the education also for whoever and also the language right so all those three things are already added in there when you when let's say for instance when somebody gets an increase make it does that include in other words she's asking if in fact this loyalty pay plan is

[1:36:06] inclusive of the re-approved language steps or whatever your steps I guess you call them and the education level too so are those inclusive in this or those also in addition to this bilingual and we have SWAT nation TP they received $100 a month if you're active member and SWAT in H and T and/or if you speak bilingual that's in addition to this loyalty plan what I was trying to find out was so whenever they have a let's say a basic pay do you get your 3% from the basic pay or is it all together and you get the raise everything is it separate or is it all together is it base pay or is it base pay plus the language plus the education let's say if it's your $1000 as a base does this percent increase thousand dollars or the $1200 should be all together correct me if I'm wrong Tina it's all together and no annual benefits or seventy seven eight seventeen was what you're asking Lucy if that's us the dollar amount is inclusive of the $100 a month for the bilingual and $100 month for the language so that's inclusive in the four seventy seventy eight seventy a and I believe in the 477 that includes the five additional officers this year if authorizes that correct Tina the 477 includes five additional officers this year if authorized by Council five additional officers wouldn't get a loyalty pay until they get off probation let's say they're hired go get it the following year wouldn't be inclusive in this budget because they wouldn't get

[1:38:08] that until the 2019 2020 budget that's correct that's right there should be no increase because of those officers but they are still included in the plan included in the employee plan but they're not included in the loyalty paying there's no increase in the loyal yes and we would see the projection as far as those new officers will be in years two three that's would you see that so okay and if you go back to the previous slide in year three the actual increase is less then given a 2% raise if we didn't receive any raises for the next three years it's hundred twenty three thousand for year three if we didn't receive a two percent which is two hundred thirty thousand that's important information to understand and know as we look down the road because obviously sitting here today we don't know what's going to happen in 2019 2020 but it's a good comment the percentage for the loyalty pay we're talking about today is not the same percentage that you would be getting and set year-2 and year-3 is the point and so it would be not as big of a percent increase and one other question Nolan you mentioned benchmark cities what benchmark cities did you use well we use the same benchmark cities that y'all use for general employees so for instance I know that some of our benchmarks include like Wichita Falls and Denton's stuff of that nature and we kind of deferred to human resources on that when we look at the basis yes ma'am because one of the problems is you know Midland is 2.5 times the sales and property tax that we have our sales tax that we have in Odessa is two point four nine or something like that so the question mark becomes if you and this is just a general statement if I owned if I make $250,000 a year and you make $100,000 a

[1:40:12] year there's no way I can afford to buy the same house so I want to make sure when we're looking at benchmark cities that were realistic about what we're doing because if you take a look at land they have over 12 million dollars and 12 billion dollars in property tax we have less than five billion in property tax an apartment or home in Midland is significantly more expensive than it is here in San Angelo if you can find one so I want to make sure when we use benchmark that we're realistic about what bench mark means just because they're in our region doesn't mean that they're comparable to us because we don't take into that cost of living and we don't have the sales tax nor the property tax that they have agree with you mayor but from the public safety standpoint we base everything on population number citizens per officers or per fireman more direct the last time I looked Billy councilman DeWitt mark cities Abilene is one of them and I compared a lot of things to Abilene in 2016 were roughly 89 to 93 percent of the medium of the benchmark cities you tell me you had a question of communities in the perfect world you'd give multi and 1% now the 1% number we've got in here I don't think we've gotten there yet shows 123 thousand is that for every every position that you have or is that just I would think if I warned employees that's gesture swarm yes which leaves out the 35 which would get if authorized I know we're ahead of the schedule but it's authorized to 2% non-sport employees 2% as employees Tommy are included in your general employee okay okay thank you one last final Nolan before ye Lee Frank when we

[1:42:15] originally looked at this early in the year there were some people that didn't this didn't fit in the curve - how did we how to do just for them we did and most of them were the laterals they left or hired left and came back we actually zero balanced in like the fire department did and keep in mind with this we retracted just about everybody's base pay and then add it back the loyalty play pay so that that's something to understand as well if we really just kept their flat base pay this this plan would have been enormous impossible and I wouldn't even bring it to your attention it would have been millions of dollars explain that again Frank I'm a little confused when we started looking at this base so you take you know officer a for example who was a lateral transfer so he has that gap in service so how do you look at their number of years when you're putting them in a base with their salary the way that it is structured now if we were to implement implement this pay plan as it was proposed originally to you all they would have taken a pretty significant pay cut I mean we're talking in the neighborhood of three to four thousand dollars some people so we had to look at those line by line and ensure that we placed them in an appropriate step where they would either a be netting zero so their take-home salary it's the same because we we don't want anybody's take-home salary to go down that that's so under this proposed plan I want to clarify that no officers take-home salary will go down that is something that we were really diligent about that's important to us that's priority one and then number two on that on that same respect is going line by line and ensuring that they're placed in the appropriate step and so when we start to look at those who are lateral and have that gap in service are we placing them in the appropriate step and they were vetted you know we had multiple parties and multiple city departments look at these steps to ensure that we were you know operating in accordance with civil service law that we were ensuring that everybody's base pay is the same but you know when we say we're rolling back your base pay it almost translates into what we're giving you a pay cut which is not the case at all because when you roll back their base pay currently they're not receiving that $300 per year so if I

[1:44:19] roll back the Chiefs base pay by two thousand dollars but the chief has 26 years of loyalty service well 26 times $300 I decrease your base pay by $2,000 but I increase your loyalty pay that you're not currently getting now by seventy eight hundred dollars well that's a significant difference you're gonna net about fifty eight hundred dollars I don't want to oversimplify it but that's kind of to put it into kind of broad terms that's that's what we're looking at so when you talk about lateral you're talking about somebody from Abilene with five years service coming to San Angelo with five years service is that what you're talking about one let you talk about lateral both those both those that come into our agency from other agencies that are already certified and then those who may have been employed with our agency sought employees employment elsewhere and then returned to our agency to come back to work they had that gap in service but we'll use their original anniversary date with us in determining their loyalty pay yes we have a lot of that we have about a handful of them I know they stopped the top of my head we have at least seven or eight of them that were kind of our problem children we were developing this plan that we had to really make sure we were taking care of them throughout this process that speaks great leadership because you had seven or eight people who left and couldn't wait to come back that's right that's great do I have further questions from Council all right move on Thank You chief and Nolan we have also for your information the cost I have a one and two percent raise for the fire department you can see there that that cost would be two hundred twenty six thousand dollars as we've proposed in this current budget any questions on that slide I think someone should come forward so we could if we do have questions

[1:46:35] morning mayor councilman hi Brian how are you okay so talk to us about the fire department what you have proposed here the 1% 2% raise and I know the last year the city gave some differing raises throughout the ranks and a lot of the personnel would like to fix a compression issue that they have and their fix actually cost less than the 2% raise that is proposed here and I would like to have Mason Matthews speak a little bit about it morning morning so we as chief Dunn said some of those raises last year our lowest ranks being hose when a driver received nine and 10 percent and that created a compression issue between the next three ranks which is lieutenant captain and battalion chief we had maintained a 13 to 15 percent differential between every rank by those two bottom ranks receiving those which was good it was good for retain those bottom ranks but now it's about a 5% different differential between that driver moving up to lieutenant so what we've done is we put together if we could you know again very grateful to we were thought about last year very grateful looking at this but we would like to possibly allocate that 2% just to those three those top three ranks being lieutenant captain a battalion chief numbers we put together are like I said it totals with the benefits included about 200 23,000 so the majority your group yes yes you do that yes sir so so we as an association every

[1:48:38] year vote on priorities we bring decide what is our number one number two number three I think we had 5 and 2018 but our number one was to fix this compression issue about a 140 members of 170 person fire department and that was our number one priority was to try and fix this compression issue so let me make sure we're really clear the 2% increase of the 226,000 667 is only for a small part of the entire fire department three of the five rings three the five ranks and as well three of the five ranks how many of the three of the five rings what is the number of the three versus the number of the five in terms of total employees so you have of the those three rings you have 20 lieutenants you have 12 captains and 4 battalion Chiefs 36 people yes ma'am and of the 5 the difference between the 3 and the 5 in total in number of personnel yes sir 50 drivers 78 firefighters Hosemann so there's a tow so you have 128 plus 36 is a total number of employees in the fire department so you have a hundred and sixty-four employees exactly hundred seventy-one total totally 171 employees and so what you're proposing on this two hundred twenty-six thousand six hundred seventy six hundred sixty-seven thousand is that those dollars are going to go towards to the 36 people only yes ma'am everyone in the Fire Department is happy with that yeah what's a happy but I let me just kind of chime in real quick every month I meet with the Association membership and the Chiefs we call it a

[1:50:42] solutions meeting I serve as a facilitator I've been very impressed with the association with the meetings that we have and the requests that they make this is a perfect example of what I've seen as well their hearts in it as far as the service you talk about civil service this is really what what impresses me about these guys is that they're looking at the overall good of the organization and they're looking at the overall good of their department as well and that's what exactly what I've seen and this doesn't surprise me really that you come up here I'd love I wish that I could tell you right now Mason especially your firefighters that are here right now that we could do 2% increase for everyone and it and fix also the compression issue but it really is kind of tight this year I know last year we looked at some of the things that we could do and we did a 9 and 10 percent increase for those lower ranks and we got those additional eight firefighters but I can't express enough to you guys how appreciative I am of y'all I mean this is really a sacrificial I really appreciate that you guys thought of this as well it makes the decisions up here a little bit easier especially when we have a very tight budget but again kudos to you I mean I think I've been a lot of spokes poking y'all's praises to the councilmembers and there's not talk to you but thank you for this once again I want to compliment you on the leadership that took you to get to this point because it takes great leadership to work with a group of people 171 employees and come up with this game plan so huge compliments I think the reason these guys are looking this when we put the loyalty plan plan in place in 2014 it fix some serious compression issues within the fire department and as long as those future raises were given across the board between those five ranks it always kept that cushion in there well last year as Mason said they appreciate that but those two bottom ranks got significantly larger raises than the lieutenant captain and batt chief and what it did was squash that down to where it it made it to where there's not a the gap there and in our

[1:52:47] loyalty play plan we removed all steps from our loyalty pay plan you have one base pay for everyone in that rank and then a loyalty pay on that so Mike it's it's very easy it's very easy to work it makes it easy for the budgeting people to to take care of thank you again great leadership and and thinking through the plan and thinking through and valuing each of your employees so it's greatly appreciated Thank You Billy the other question Mason what feedback are we likely to get from the 128 folks that may not get anything well the so we've been like I said when we when we vote on these priorities we put it out we have lots of talks and discussion about what is number one what is number two what is number three like I said we're once that priority list and this is just as the Association because we do have members that are not in the Association but when we when we set those priorities we have gone for 12 months and sat in front of administration and mr. Valenzuela and talking about how can we do this what and so I guess there is a lot of those people that stand in I get anything that loaded for this and a lot of those are going to be in that in that bottom rank that said they appreciated it last year and they understood that there is now a problem and they're looking after our brother and sisters and saying now it's time to do the right thing this year let's try to fix that and create or keep that incentive to promote thank you can we move in to talk about the fire safer grant please okay so the fire safer grant is for personnel for the fire department and we laid that out several months ago when we came forward to ask you to apply for that and it's eight additional firefighters for the fire department in in two spots the back of

[1:54:51] the aerial which is one of our most complex pieces of equipment and a battalion chief driver and these are both national standards and we we set forth a lot of comparison with how it's done and everywhere else and what the NFPA standard is for that so the cost for this is with if we get the grant and we don't know that we got the grant yet or off they have reached out to us and asked us a lot of additional questions that they never never have asked us in the past so if we did get the grant the year one match for the city would be a hundred and fifty thousand it'd be an additional hundred fifty thousand and year note one hundred fifty thousand and two three hundred ninety thousand match in year three and then each subsequent year it would be roughly the six hundred thousand dollars going forward for those eight personnel I have great concerns about as approving things today that have such a significant impact on our budget going forward because we don't know from a budget perspective where the revenue stream will go so when you start talking about this and the additional cost of this you're adding a lot to the budget in future years and that doesn't even include anything as it relates to existing employees and raises so I'm very cautious about this safer grant I'm not sure I support it and I'm very concerned about what it obligates us to in the future well I would say this would be kind of like the five additional police officers over the four years for the police department getting us to the Manning point that we need to be did we just add eight last year that was on the Emerald side yes ma'am I've been told that before we finish this up we'll take a vote real quick we can take a vote on this do we want to break I've been told people want a break and so before we continue I'm do we want

[1:56:54] to break yes yes so we're gonna take a break at this very moment okay for ten minutes ten minutes okay you're back on all right I had a couple more comments to make about this this safer grant or these positions was actually the number two priority that the solution the guys come into solution committee brought forward part of is because the safety aspects of what those two spots do for that the other thing I wanted to say was that the last time we actually added personnel to the firefighting side was back in 2002 or 3 when we added station 8 the other additions through the years have been on the amylin side to take deal with animal or the rising amount of animal trends that we've had over those years trying to find a page real quick give me a second I know but I'm looking for a different page then I made a note sign hold on okay so when well this might be under a different conversation of peak hours ambulance but my question is when you say the unit our utilization is currently point zero three one three eight and your goal is to get point one eight two point two four which is a big slide what is that calculation let me get by okay last year you asked me mayor how you would calculate this versus the old method of doing things which was purely based on the amount of runs well this is the current standard to determine how much your amulet is being used and this comes out from firing fire fire engineering is who does this so what this calculation is is the total amount

[1:58:59] of hours so if you have one hour one ambulance that is in service 24 hours a day 365 it'd be 24 times the 365 for them out of hours for that ok 4 and then multiplied by the amount of emmalin says we have divided by you go in there and what I have on that is the amount of time we're out of service for emergency response time and the amount of time it takes to do the paperwork which I averaged it to about 20 minutes which is probably less than it actually takes them but it makes that number a little bit lower so that doesn't include their mandatory PT time their training time or their time to prepare the Hamline says that is purely emergency response time to come to that calculation ok and this current calculation would not include of course the new ambulance that we bought because it has not been delivered yet so this is a number calculated prior to what will happen when the new ambulance gets here this number that is sitting there right now is 5 front line a Melissa's with the peak the calculation with those same runs on the average part if you have 6 and no peak would be 0.28 1 1 and if you could continue with 6 with the peak it would be 0.26 4 5 6 9 ok and when you say the 6 you're talking about the ambulance that's not here yet analyst is here my personnel aren't trained you ask PD how long it took to train personnel well for the fire department if you include the processing application period it's 28 months for me to from the time I give a test until the time I roll personnel out that are usable because are it's about eight months worth of process time and our rookie school is 18 months eight

[2:01:04] hours a day and that's when they roll out of that hopefully passing their test at that point okay so I was under the understanding that we hadn't received the ambulance it's really the reverse we have the new the ambulance what we don't have or we're taking the existing staff to cover the sixth ambulance versus having the new eight people trained to take care of the ambulance we are not running a sixth out analyst right now the Hamill's is there we could have if we had the people we could Amanda reserved analyst that's why I said last year it's the time that it takes once I hire them to get them ready if we were Manning a six analyst we'd be hiring overtime we're Manning a peak through that overtime but if we were Manning a sixth frontline analyst we would be hiring overtime on multiple occasions just to get that done that's what those personnel are for ok so then with that said so this says of course other potential opportunities continuation of peak hours and ambulance and a cost would be two hundred fifty eight thousand eight hundred for using overtime so is that assuming that these other are still not ready they will not be ready until June of 2019 we hired them in December of 2017 when y'all hold that button here so they will not be ready until that point in time we are running the peak amants if it's get staffed from 9:00 to 6:00 Monday through seven days a week I can tell you that it prior to putting the peak in service shut down a fire truck mm and sixteen a hundred and seventy sometimes and seventeen it lowered because we'd started using the peak and during this last time frame when I ran it from

[2:03:07] August 1 of 17 through July 31 we had only shut down a firetruck 55 times during that period so you can see the impact that the peak hamlets is having for us as far as shutting down fire suppression because if we run out a molasses which means all 5 amylin cesare out on runs at the same time we start shutting down fire trucks to make those medical runs in that area which means that 1/8 the city is lacking fire protection for that period of time okay so with where this says cost would be two hundred fifty eight thousand eight hundred four is that basically the dollars of overtime that you've had in the 2017-18 that is if it if it gets staffed every day so there's a sign-up list some days it doesn't get staff like a Saturday or Sunday maybe people don't sign up to staff it so we run without a peak that day this amount covers seven days a week for a year of overtime but we've not had to do that before is what you're saying we've been running it we since you all voted for an October 1 of last year we've been running it since then seven days a week well if it's staffed yes yeah so I guess my question is that's the maximum cost it would be to man it every day for a year ok so maximum but in 2017 18 what has been our overtime cost for manning it because I would assume if that's what we're projecting the overtime would be in this current budget would basically mean that that's what we had in actual overtime expenses this path this most current year with minimum manning FLSA overtime it blends in it's in there with all that so so then your image of the days do you have a crew what percentage of those that's

[2:05:10] seven a week do YouTube usually Monday through Friday it's always staff which is good because you have everybody out working and if you look at the the run volume I've broken the run volume down on an hourly basis when I looked at it and during those times when everybody's out and about and you can see it sharply fall off a little after 7:00 something at night or basically it starts going down I'm trying to get at as an answer to the mayor's question about what percentage of the 258 do we think we would actually have to spend almost always Monday and Friday Monday through Friday so usually if it's not staffed it's a Saturday and Sunday and I can't it just depends well then let me ask you this is maybe a more direct way to ask the question based off of your actual cost employee costs for in 2017-18 based off of actuals through July plus projected August September is two hundred fifty eight thousand we're looking at here the same two hundred fifty eight thousand that's in total employee cost in the current budget this amount is not included in the current proposed budget so if you take a look then at 2017-18 actuals are projected or the actuals through August plus your or July or August and September we're basically saying in that number is the overtime that was required expense wise to man the ambiences in 2017 18 so if that's true then this two hundred fifty eight thousand would be over and above they projected 2017-18 numbers even though those are so it's two hundred fifty eight thousand more on top of that amount was authorized last year and it was a different amount last year but but the program was authorized last year by council it was not in the original budget it was an amendment to the original budget so it's in the current budget all right so with that amended budget the reason would be in that number yes and the reason for that is that we proposed the one-time funding

[2:07:12] source rather than adding it to the actual budget because it's meant at this point in time to be a temporary measure for that window of time in the existing actual yes ma'am they probably would we go down with your with your classics graduating and in the May June timeframe because you won't have so much overtime because now you can be able to staff it what once once they're out will go to a sixth frontline analyst instead of that right now we run the five frontline and the peak during those from nine to six every day the Overtoun number though would would not be as great because you're only using eight or nine months out of this fiscal year compared to and I'd have to go back and look and see if we did it for nine months versus a year all right so then there's a comment recommended fund with Medicaid supplement so what is that Medicaid supplement is monies that comes back from the federal government through the state for Medicaid patients underinsured uninsured patients that we haul it is usually we'll file it for our fiscal year that ends September 30th we have to have our paperwork in by March april of nineteen we will know the number that we'll get back in about October of next year so it's at least a year time we get the money we know we got we know we got money coming again wait last year and we will have money we're actually proposing this current fiscal year's receipt and that is probably in excess of five hundred thousand dollars that will receive this year are you talking 17 18 or eighteen nine so we'll receive the money this year in 1718 but we're proposing to use that money that we received this year to fund this with that one-time funding source okay so this wouldn't be something over and above a budget that's correct and it would not come out of your marginal revenue okay so it is included you have included it

[2:09:16] it is not in the budget yet we are recommending that we use that Medicaid money that will receive in September good we're basically recommending that you put that in an amendment to the budget again that's how we did it last year yes ma'am questions there questions okay what's that do we have any more time do we have any more questions for cheap done okay Thank You chief so our next slide shows the the cost of a one and two percent increase for general employees outside of public safety I don't know there's a lot of questions but I do know that citizens that are watching this especially those that have seen me for the last two and a half years up here know that I'm a very big proponent of making sure that we take care of all the employees those people that are making sure that the water is safe for us to drink those people are in the middle in the ditch and December replayer in that water line or that sewer line so I want to make sure that we take care of everybody so there's 2% to me is what I'd like to try to do I want to make sure that what we do is when we address the revenue stream that we keep our overall expenses in line with a revenue stream in other words if we make this up if we plan our revenue stream up 2% we can't allow our expense line to go larger than 2% because you start eating away so we need to make sure revenue is in line with expenses and when we allocate that million dollars that you have remaining that will be a balanced budget within the same exact increases to revenue and the same exact increase to expenditure or revenue will equal expenditure at that point well let me make sure because we just said that we

[2:11:19] were going to change the budget to use the 1 or we were proposing the 1.5 percent decrease versus a 3 percent decrease in revenue as planned here right yes so that sales tax revenue only right but that net amount is what then the difference is 290,000 it changes your $1,000,000 excess to one point two nine million available to be allocated or the 1819 budget yes that doesn't make sense let me talk to that again so right now the 2018-19 budget proposed is seventy four million three hundred fifty four three sixty four that's what is in front of us today on these slides okay and what we said was we were going to change the sales tax line we would create you would increase the sales tax line here by the two hundred ninety thousand dollars that would also change this difference to the one point two nine million dollars right so the question so then when you get to the bottom line instead of one eight five well the problem with that line is it's over the budget it's it's enough your increase in decrease is relative to the budget not the actual so bottom line is you're going to take seventy four three five four three six four right and add two hundred ninety thousand to it right so that makes your number no I mean add seventy four three five four three six four plus two ninety you're

[2:13:24] looking at 644 the one point five is really we were at three percent and we took it to one point five so you're actually adding dollars to the sales tax line so that sales tax line now will go up by two hundred and ninety thousand dollars which means you're increasing your total revenue by that amount you would now be at seventy four million three hundred wait you're going to be adding seven four three five four three sixty four take that number plus two hundred ninety thousand and that total number is what okay that's right before six four four three six four okay so using that number it means as a comparison to 2017 eight projection so you're eighteen four one six four hundred minus seventeen four one seven five two six is what number 17 four one seven five two six minus eighteen four one six four hundred is 998 thousand eight hundred and seventy four so if you add seven twenty five oh three three two seven plus nine nine eight yes I'm sorry four one six four hundred and then you and you take if you subtract the difference between 18 for one six four hundred from seventeen for one seventy five to six but those two numbers are not comparable I thought we said that is two hundred ninety thousand is that what we said seventeen for one seven is not comparable to the 18 for one six because you're not including your mixed beverage tax or your bingo tax well I thought there was a sheet here just correct me if I'm wrong there was a there's a sheet that specifically

[2:15:27] says sales tax revenue would be eighteen fiscal year 2018 projected ending sales tax projection is 18 for one 16 I explained earlier that that number is strictly sales tax and does not include bingo tax or mixed beverage tax sales tax 2017 18 does include that yes ma'am okay so the point is is we then talked about adding the sales tax I mean the liquor tax and the bingo tax and we came up with 18800 right yes okay so you would take the eighteen thousand eight hundred minus seventeen thousand four seventy five to six and you would get a number of so 18,800 -1 7 4 1 7 5 2 6 equals a difference of 1 million 382 474 is that correct I might have hit the wrong keys is that right down to 18 8 18 eight lunches what we - this 17 for 175 to 6 i came up one point four one six yeah we added the 290 right so if you take 18 800 - one seven four one seven five to six you get an increase of 1 million 382 474 there abouts yes I use more exact numbers in my calculation but it's about when I'm around money from these numbers basically you know so then if you use that you would then take the 72 503 three to seven plus one three eight two four seven four to come up with a total number of seven three eight eight five 801 and if you take that number and add and subtract that number from the number

[2:17:38] of seven four six four four three six four you get a number called Arif I could simplify regardless of where those numbers lead if you increase the sales tax estimate and add $290,000 to it you are left with one point two nine million dollars to allocate as you see fit so what it looks like to me is the difference between the projected 2017 and 18 and our new total revenue inclusive of the 290 thousand would be a difference of 750 8563 it's a difference of 1 may your increase in revenue here one point eight five million dollars would increase by 200 $90,000 taken the actual projected 2017-18 vs. the budgeted plan budget 2018-19 that's reflected here plus 290 ok so then yeah that's a problem so then you end up with a seven hundred fifty eight thousand five hundred sixty three dollar increase and the 2018-19 budget compared to the projected actual 2017-18 budget so we would be up seven hundred fifty eight thousand five sixty three is that correct if we take that 290 which is one point five percent difference

[2:19:46] that gives us 1 million two hundred and ninety thousand nine hundred and seventy three dollars to allocate over these requests that we've had well not yes if you've got a million here already and if you if you take an additional two hundred ninety thousand dollars and add that then you got a million 299 seventy three so I was just looking at the percent increase on revenue okay sorry not as a net revenue versus expenditures I'm simply looking at revenue so in that case you have the 758 five six three well no the 1 million so you have 1 million to 90 and those dollars then we've got to figure out if we've got if we've got what requests we've got it and we're willing to fund goes back to the question mark of keeping your expenditures as a percent increase in line with your with your total revenue stream that's what we were getting to so with that said if you have I can describe this again 758 look at the screen that she's got up right now and if you were able to look at these particular items then we would be over the projected budget by a hundred and ninety one thousand six hundred and forty-five dollars if we took off the safer grant for example you would be within forty one thousand dollars all right so what I see here is based off of the 2018-19 revenue as we just described adding the two hundred ninety thousand we're at seventy four million six hundred forty-four thousand three hundred sixty four is our revenue correct because the million dollars here is reflective if you use the budget of

[2:21:48] 27:18 not the actual that's correct that really isn't a million to available that's not true there is a million to available if you increase that estimate period don't allocate increases or decreases you allocate that revenue that's on the top half of the page revenue over expenditure so right now our expenditures are at 73 million seven hundred fifty three thousand three hundred ninety-one and what we have is revenue of seventy four million six hundred and forty four three sixty four so the difference between those two is seven four six four four three six four minus seven three seven five three three nine one equals eight hundred ninety thousand nine hundred seventy three dollars we should just verify my numbers because I've been to numbers were you I used the revenue stream of 70 74 million six hundred forty four thousand three hundred sixty four because that's two hundred ninety thousand dollars added to the seventy four million three hundred fifty four three sixty four because we've not changed anything on the expenditure lines at this point in time so if you looked at it and said what is the difference between the revenue and the expenditures the seventy four six four four three six four minus the seventy three seventy five three three nine one is a difference of eight hundred ninety thousand nine hundred seventy three if I calculated it right you want me to repeat those numbers

[2:24:03] again no ma'am this is the correct number to use when you're subtracting expenditures this is what's currently in the proposed expenditure budget so I'm confused and because the sheet I have has seventy three thousand seven hundred fifty three three nine one that's what that is right that's right and it's a seventy four three five four plus three six four so I have three five three that's what I have so it's still eight hundred ninety thousand nine hundred seventy three we talk actuals worth or that or this projected budget for 1819 what I'm talking about is 1819 budget total revenues versus total expenses you take if you take this number that they have up here and add two hundred ninety thousand dollars which is a seventy four six four four three six oh and leave this number this total expansion number as it is I did okay and that should give you 1 million two hundred ninety thousand nine hundred and seventy seventy three dollars okay let me do it again cuz there if I may yeah what is your number say seven three seven five three yes okay I'm being told by my staff that that's an outdated document okay so that's the problem because four hundred thousand dollars between different on this sheet versus that yes that's the problem the four hundred that's the problem because the sheet we were given to work from is seventy three million seven hundred fifty three thousand three hundred ninety one you're now saying at seventy three thousand three hundred fifty three 391 yes which has been the additional four hundred thousand which is different than the numbers we have in front of us so that's the 1 million two nine one okay I see what you're where you're coming from matches my number if we use the numbers we were alright so if we go back you know if we can go back to the the sheet that shows those yes we originally proposed it do you want to

[2:26:08] see it with the two ninety see the other one that one right there okay okay to my point you've got a million to 1991 plus whatever those numbers are if you decided to do loyalty pan the fire two percent generally employs two percent and the health insurance increase that will get you within forty one thousand I'm not proposing right now that we that we I think right now we need to have all options out and available for us for a September fourth meeting I'm still I guess a little bit behind on what you're saying what what what is it that we have the 1 million two ninety one and you're saying we have one hundred I mean you're saying we have eighty nine no what I'm saying is based off of the numbers here in this bracket we were given do not match the numbers that were up there they were off by four hundred thousand okay so when I say the eight hundred ninety thousand you add 400 to it based off of the number they have here versus what we have so that gives you the 1 million to nine oh okay so you're in agreement with that yes yes we were not apples to apples okay so then the question mark is if you take a look at my point is and I'm going to get to that calculation in one minute is that if you take a look at your percent increase in revenue projected these discussions last year what's the revenue percentage increase planned and what is the expenditure as presented here without

[2:28:13] any discussion about anything we've been presented today why does that percent increase over last year or the 27:18 projected so that we keep our revenues in line with expenditures err if I could if you start with a balanced budget with an equal amount for revenue and an equal amount for expenditure and you budget conservatively so that you expect to beat the budget on the expense side in other words come in low and you expect to make or beat the budget on the revenue side which has come in high then what you end up with hopefully is an experience where your revenues exceed the revenue budget your expenditures are below your expenditure budget and so when you go to budget the following year if you start out with the assumption that revenues equal expenditure then you are naturally going to have a smaller increase percentage-wise in revenues actual versus new budget then expenditures because the expenditures came in lower than budget and the revenues came in higher than budget that is kind of an occupational hazard for conservative budgeting Daniel has been an advocate since day one for we need to beat our revenue budgets and he he and Tina have worked together to push the conservative element into those revenue budgets so that we consistently make or beat those amounts and so your observation that an equal dollar increase is not an equal percentage increase is appropriate that even though they go up the same dollar the percentage increase for revenue is actually less than the percentage increase in expenditure even though you end up with a balanced budget it appears percentage-wise you've gone up more on expenditures than revenues

[2:30:17] but that same conservative objective exists in the new budget also in the new budget also there is the expectation that we're going to make or beat revenue budget and it we're gonna make or beat to the downside the expenditure budget so it's a little skewed when you look at it only from a percentage basis but it's also looking at from a dollar basis too because it's basically you take dollars to the bank not percentages and so what we have to make sure we do is really analyze the actual dollars as well so that we're not overspending the dollars because banks don't take your percentages and so we want to make sure that we have a relationship that maintains revenue exceeds expenses and I guess what I'm pointing out is percentages won't get you there the actual dollar projections are what gets you there we just need to make sure revenue exceeds expenses because the other thing that we know happens is if we go down let's take the reverse let's say we are positive about our sales tax revenue right now but it doesn't happen but we've already agreed to increases in expenditures primarily personnel problem is what consistently happens is rightfully so you can't clawback increases in salaries so those maintain themselves and so you constantly decrease services and/or maintenance issues so we want to be conservative in all aspects of it so that the end of the day we keep a well balanced financial statement in line with services and Mayor we would agree with that and that's where our directors and managers come in i'm as soon as we started seeing the decrease to sales tax revenues in 2016 I went I went to Daniel

[2:32:20] and I said look we need to watch this very closely the second month we saw those numbers we started meeting with directors right then and there they started giving us ideas for cutting expenses in the budget unfortunately we have a problem with staffing levels and that we can't keep a lot of those staffing staffing positions manned and so we have salary savings there that we're able to use and so we watch this very closely and we're very serious about making sure that we meet the budget man we're good with everything you just said I mean absolutely absolutely you know an art and of course we do budget very conservative even this right here with a 290 it still bit of estimate so and re and as Tina said Wallach and I mentioned earlier will be will monitoring it very carefully and if there is an adjustment no sales tax revenues will do on our and to make sure that we adjust our expenditures down as well I totally know you will so this is not questions that I asked the challenges that I have are not relative to me not believing is that you all do your job and do it well so thank you but on the other thing and this is a time period when we have to ask the questions about all these issues this is the only time we really get to ask the questions because what I found last year was when certain things were coming up to be approved for example and the not the regular agenda the consent agenda people would say to me well I didn't know we approves five hundred seventy seven thousand or a million dollars worth of new trucks or buses or whatever because we didn't ask those questions last year and so we were very unaware of how much we approved in terms of certain things all of a sudden a million dollars over here and five hundred over here and then another two hundred over here not that they were wrong expenditures right you needed them we needed to do it my point is we were unaware we approved that last year so today is our chance to ask the question so that when they come up and consent agenda we're not surprised by those items because we didn't know we approved them I don't

[2:34:21] want to be that ignorant this year okay period so that's why I asked the questions I don't want to not know what I approved or suggested we approve with support of the council will respect the Emir thank you for that that's all and and the other part of it is I think that we have been presented tremendous amount of options and ideas and things that we all want to spend some time thinking about I feel like we've been presented too much to just all of a sudden today make a decision about what we want to approve or not because we're not taking a vote today today was a budget workshop it was a presentation and I want us to go home and do some serious thinking about everything talk some more and we will come back on Sept the fourth and make some final decisions about what will be put into this plan mayor on September 4th we will be bringing to you the draft budget as it is presented we will be hoping that you will adopt it in that state because that is the first reading of the budget ordinance so we really need some solid and good direction from you today in order to be able to bring that to you one week from today and we're gonna have to be here so more hours I think got a lot of questions left so as long as you're with other people here talking it is my opinion at this point all that good direction they're worth going and I'll tee this off to everybody here on the board to talk to I'm not liking the safer grant match I would love to see those numbers without the safer in it and if I'm not wrong I mean there's been a lot of math here discussed but how close that gets us yes without the safer $18 14900 $18 and an option that you

[2:36:29] could consider would be to go with the one and a half percent plus the forty thousand to close that gap or some other combination whatever you want discuss her decide to do well also the other thing we haven't discussed is is healthcare so yes Lane please so I've been doing the little calculations and this is before healthcare has been discussed you take that one for 1.5% conservative number bringing it to the 1.29 less your expenses from the loyalty pay fire increase far salary increase salary increase on the general health care bringing that to what we did last year as a shared amount matching the 5.1 percent and getting rid of the safer grant for now and actually the two percent salary increase which is a three thousand dollar savings is that Mayson three thousand dollar savings brings you to an excess of fifty to ninety six fifty-five thousand two hundred ninety six dollars so if you did want to go with the safer grant match you would honestly have to find one forty four seven thirty eight well which I'm looking actually kind of what I'm looking at here with the middle expense of a hundred and sixty six thousand zero eighties not for the Kosovo on health insurance we are saying that we want to split the increase so five point one to employ in five point one to coach them okay here before last year we did the split in the year before that we did the zero increase to employees if we stick with the matched employee to cosa and you bring that number of two two hundred and ten thousand one hundred and fifty down to the 166 with the number of the fire salary increase actually being two to three 667 estimated you would come out to five thousand two hundred and

[2:38:32] ninety six dollars excess given that you do not go with the safer grant okay so what you're proposing or what you're saying out loud right now is you're proposing the police salary increase of 2% not the loyalty plan no I would go with the loyalty plan well zeros yeah zero for the increased salary loyalty points at the 477 with what lanes proposing and we're using a calculator up here that we already had prepared you would have a remainder of seven thousand five hundred eighty dollars if you we reran the numbers that the fire department presented for their suppression or compression appropriate evident that exact dollar amount and and what is that exact 220 to 230 so that would be coming at 75 range proposal balances the budget is that what I heard yes what I want to access some seven grand I want to go back and go through it line by line just Simon definitely so you're proposing that we maintain the that we support the loyalty pay plan of four hundred seventy seven thousand eight seventeen you're proposing the fire request for two to three to two to three zero you're proposing a salary increase of journal of four eighteen 104 you're proposing the 210 150 to be cut in half would be the cost between employees forty-five thousand yes eliminating the safer grant if we get chief if we get the safer

[2:40:36] grant we can budget him in that later correct we certainly could try to find us any funding source after we receive the grant yes so that balance is it to seven green axis so with that said we are is 150 so you're forty five thousand no that's so you basically why did you say seven thousand dollars I'm eighty in the black camp all right so are we asking then I'm gonna go back to mine you know numbers and ask are we increasing our percentage if we do all of this proposed do we increase the percent that personnel represents to the total compared to you have seventy point six six is what personnel is currently budget without any of these other additions you've made a couple of slight changes like with the fire that's a little bit different but our calculation for that with the pay plan and all of the other increases was 71 point one eight percent we went up you added five police officers the police pay plan and raises four other employees can't support is an increased percentage of 1.17 existing oh that also included the safer grant so if you pulled that out that would be a little bit less would take us some time to compute that though an increase of less than half a percent if you take out the safer grant so then you're going to be at seventy one point eight three minus 0.5 D one point one eight seventy one point one eight or

[2:42:39] seventy one one three three seventy one point eight three and you said take out half a percent so that'd be so one point five three know we'd be seventy one point one eight is what I had said seventy one point one eight yes ma'am I put eight three okay no that's okay so seventy one point one eight - your point five takes you down to 70 point eight three compared to this no no no 71 point one eight - here's how I would do it the 71 point one eight - the seventy point six six that we had showed you to show we showed you earlier point five two difference so then you in that evany point six six so it's half a percent different and that's before pulling out the safer grant and that would take a little time for us to compute that Oh mayor if we went with lanes proposal this number here you would be revenue over expenditure of seven thousand five hundred and eighty dollars over revenue over expenditure over expenditure sorry the only do you have it comments like was the direction that this is taking since Tina and group have asked for a pretty clear direction i i like the police loyalty the fire compression proposal that was given to us two percent general salary increase i'm sharing the cost of the health insurance i like that i don't know too many operations where the employee doesn't have a shared cost in in their benefit so i would like to see us consider that

[2:44:43] and then to the point that lane made because i would like to see a supply for this safer grant i think you know it will continue to make our city safer and and our fire department better equipped but if that's something that we can not plan for right now but in the future if there's you know if we get the safer grant and we can look at maybe some other opportunities we may have to be able to you know fund that we have already applied for the safer grant we just haven't gotten award back yet as far as far as i know that's why I saw a chief walking up here we just haven't gotten word back whether we received it or not so it's not well again an art and if it's hard to plan for something that we don't know for sure that we're gonna receive anyway so that kind of takes away budgeted dollars so at this point it would be prudent to kind of hold off on that anyway because we don't know anything as far as whether it's gonna come in or not so at this point I don't see an issue with doing that and reviewing that later at a later point that's where I am there with with with that and especially since it appears that we would come out in the black a little bit not much but a little bit that's always better than not being able to claw our way out of the red bucket well we're looking at when all these numbers are said and done the health insurance is is I'm gonna be paid half sorry Anthony he got mad at me earlier electric shock but yeah from what they're saying what I'm listening to is

[2:46:48] I think we've come to a complete circle that we actually are saying that we can afford these things and look at him as something positive to me bond with like I said firing the police and and the city employees I mean we're doing the best we can and I just I'm just glad that we're not gonna be in the red in at least from what y'all have been doing all the numbers doesn't look like it but it it is but it's coming I mean wait the numbers show um one thing I want to look at last year its and Billy I'm gonna go with you health care is a shared cost no matter what we do today the employees the city employees will always have a shared in it I was hoping I mean last year correct me if I'm wrong lis so we skipped on this one for 26,000 we could have picked up the increase I was hoping there'd be a way and I get it you know and I get where we're going what it is I would love to figure out a way you know we're talking nearly a thousand employees and less than you know 60,000 or whatever it is the 166 I was hoping a way to pick that up and go but if that's not recoverable I understand that willing to move on but I'm glad to see that we took care of everybody from one into the other with what we've done today it's been a long process but I'm not in fond of the safer because I just don't know what that cause is gonna be in three years okay I think that's a big one we're rolling the dice on not knowing what we'll see in 2020 2122 question I guess it's maybe for Lisa if if we did the shared cost with the employees how many of the employees would get no raise whatsoever because the the 2% in salary increase would not take care of their cost in their increased shared cost of insurance

[2:48:55] councilman I don't think there would be anybody that wouldn't see an increase in salary because if you look at the cost of insurance that's a smaller number than their salary is so if they get a 2% raise in salary but their insurance goes up 5% it's not a loss of service you're not gonna have any anywhere up and that's obviously gonna be dead lower lower down I'm making that assumption so you're not gonna have anybody that's know this is probably a silly question but Tommy I think her answer is based on employee only yes that is correct you have big coverage on your family right then you might see a different impact talking just the low option employer only coverage but I did have one other point to bring up on the insurance we are still cranking numbers we had a meeting yesterday with our our consultant Holmes Murphy and because we made some changes to our insurance on the prescription plan effective August 1st we hope to see a savings of two hundred fifty five thousand dollars in the health insurance program and if that's the case it'll greatly reduce this number that's presented to you today but we won't have that until sometime later today that's the key there is that the one person at a time please go ahead Michael key there is that the insurance number is an estimate it's just the latest estimate that number changes each month as we have claims experience and so if we if the council votes to dedicate a certain amount then the premiums would alter based on the council's committed this much and if the experience gets better then the employee piece may not have to go up as much or if the experience gets worse the employee piece may have to go up more it's it's simply a placeholder for when we finally make the decision on premiums we're basically asking that whatever the increase is it be split between employee

[2:50:58] and see if Santangelo since you don't have a finite a firm firm firm number quickly in this situation we would ask the council to ask alakay either the 210 or the 166 and then when we get those numbers back we determine we use that 166 or 210 towards the city side and the remainder would fall on the employee side so we're saying the 166 I want you know one of the things I think it's really important that we talk about when we talk about budgeting is that we have a hundred thousand population city of which many of them are self-employed as we talk about increases whether it be to salaries and/or to insurance not everyone who contributes money to this city gets the same luxury of percent increases so we're saying okay we are going to allocate 2% raises to city employees not every citizen in the Unites in the city of San Angelo will get a 2% raise this year so we want to make sure that what we don't do is is be so so insular that we don't realize the big picture what's going on out there so Tommy did you have further because we you sort of start on that and then no I think that my question was answered my question was I didn't want to leave any employee worth the increased cost in the 5% shared to them would wipe out a raise entirely and essentially make them go backwards that would that was my question I think I think she answered that so it sounded like did I hear correctly that we made a change to the prescription drug plan that could equate to 200 and potentially $250,000 savings to us so that would then could then be applicable to this where they may not have to have the 5% cost share okay that's good that's good

[2:53:05] news all right so the last thing I'm going to bring up for discussion is we have on here as just as the police department and the fire had a very focused approach to who would get raises laws you pay versus compression we talk about salary increased general two percent we have talked before in the past that we're really want to make sure that when we review people that this 2% is not 2% to everybody but it's 2% for Wow so if we do merit increases and you get a meat standard is one thing if you get an exceeds is another thing this simply says 2% to everybody because you're employed and we don't want the Blue Ribbon mentality I don't think oh man we do have what you're doing is a proven amount that is 80 percent above but on our end the one thing that we've been looking is as we do our reviews we have those individuals that exceed that meet or fall below so we are talking about splitting that and there's the opportunity to go on a 2.5 for those that exceed and a 1.25 for those that meet and of course those that do not are below don't get anything now so that is and I think that's important because I think we have a lot of employees who exceed who put a hundred and fifty percent into their jobs and I'd like to make sure that those people receive rewards that indicate we know what you're committing your job and how much you add to us and I don't and so that's important to me we we don't always have in city government an opportunity to increase and to move up in rank so many organizations you have an opportunity to move up to the next level job we don't have that necessary so the only thing we have is to make sure our people who exceed have an opportunity financially to understand we appreciate the work that they've done with that said what other direction do you need one point I like to make

[2:55:08] earlier I talked about the 1.4 million dollars that we're projecting that we'll have over as far as our sales tax revenues from projected the actuals will be about 1.4 million dollars more we have one item to discuss and I'd like to bring back to the City Council at a future City Council meeting like next week is to discuss the use of those monies for specific projects but the one that I wanted to address today because we are under a time crunch is those vehicles that will end up vehicles for the police department we have a lot of them that are breaking down at this point we had forecasted that we include an additional 12 the reason again let me kind of back back up a little bit the cost for the vehicles that we replace which is explorers is going up a little over 17 percent by mid-september so we'd like to get an order in on time to have those cost savings to the city so we're asking that that you take a look at this and hopefully have the we can get some approval as to the ability to go ahead and purchase those additional 12 vehicles and save that money and get some of those bad vehicles off line a lot of those charges that break down I think that there's strong support for that the question mark is is whether we're allowed to take a vote on that today or whether we are only talking about it for consideration and then we will vote on it September 4th the question mark is if we vote on on September 4th we don't have to have a second reading or anything on it right so that's what we need to talk about so we don't delay it again on September the 4th so we need to know the real action that needs to be taken today to move to 4th of September for final action no I know I said September 4th for final action so for the budget I think we have direction given what you all have just told us to do with with the budget okay so I think we'll be okay on that aspect are you talking about the 1.4 million it's correct just just in general the only one that I'm addressing right now is because of the time constraint that we have and I cost going up in mid-september for those vehicles all

[2:57:10] right so our opportunity would be either to discuss it at the September 4th meeting and then have on that same agenda the budget amendment so that you do that in order to be timely with this purchase I think Daniel is that perfect okay all right with that said maybe yes I am gonna clarify one thing and typically in the past the police chiefs have gotten a pay raise and loop the pay plan so are we I just need clear direction do they get the pay raise on top of the pay plan we're just a proven their loyalty pay plan okay thank you I still have a question so are we moving forward I know Lisa brought up that they're making a prescription plan that they might have a number on this afternoon that may be one-fifth of that change might cover to go all the way to that so are we moving forward with still half or if that revenue potential comes in we're gonna move forward with the fifth the 166 or the typically this is just a recommendation to work with if she comes back on September 4th and tells us we now know the real number will then vote on it today is just so they can prepare the budget it is not a final budget as of today I just want to make sure we didn't run with that do I have a motion for adjournment oh we don't even have to do that today we're done thank you everybody for the time and effort put into this budget in the conversations nothing is final as of today they're just recommendations for the September 4th meeting no final decisions

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=PILhmr6wbfY