San Angelo City Council 3-5-19

[0:00:00] it is 8 31 a.m on march the 5th we will start off with our chaplain prayer marcella jenkins would you come forward members of the city council our city manager madam clerk and honorable department heads and guests good morning may we pray precious father lord you are the creator of the heaven and the earth and we pause in the business of our lives to recognize and reflect upon the power you have entrusted to us may we have the wisdom to use that power and our influence to build up the whole human family and especially the citizens and guests of this great city may san angelo be recognized by those within and without as a city that values neighborhoods and neighborly people cherishes education and wisdom promotes justice and compassion encourages businesses and rewards hard work supports the arts and rewards of our artists celebrates together as a wonderfully diverse family models politics that add values to the lives of all bless now this city meeting as council members deal with sensitive matters may we see through your eyes not our blurred vision that is all good for the advancement and safety of the city of san angelo amen this morning we have members of the san angelo scout bsa troupe 374. so would you please come forward and lead us in prayer today come on don't be afraid of the united states of america

[0:02:15] and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all i honor the texas flag i pledge allegiance to thee one faith under god one an individual [Applause] um okay i wanted you to sit down so i could ask you to come back up again come on now you're scared to come up aren't you today we are going to recognize san angelo's first all-female scout bsa troop 374. we congratulate scout bsa troop 374 at san angelo's first all-female troop on february 1st 2019 for the first time both young men and women ages 11 to 17 were welcomed into the iconic program for character and leadership development the principles of scouting as outlined in scout law trustworthy loyal helpful friendly courteous kind obedient cheerful

[0:04:17] thrifty brave clean and reverent wow are important values in today's society for both young men and women now all girl troops will be able to earn the same merit badges and accomplish the same advancements the boys have earned for nearly 109 years in the boy scout program this marks the first time in history that young women can begin the journey towards the prestigious eagle scout rank the scout master for san angelo's scout bsa troupe 374 is jenny price fierro the troop consists of eight girls who are currently working on their promotion to quote scout ranked by the end of this month while completing service projects performing flag ceremonies and preparing for summer camp therefore i brenda gunter mayor the city of san angelo on behalf of the city council do hereby recognize and applaud scout bsa troop 374 for their achievement and positive determination to make a difference in our community thank you [Applause] um i'm rebecca jacobson i am a one of the scouts that joined and it's just really cool to be part of scouts and without having that sure people ask me why did you when boy scouts girl scouts have the same badges i reply with they do have the same badges but you don't earn them girl scouts you have to clean a car boyce gas do you get a repair one you get to do so many other one things with boy scouts and it's just opens that door of experiment experience and it's just

[0:06:19] really amazing and we yesterday during our meeting all the scout girls earned the rank scouts so now we have the rank scouts on our names thank you for breaking the barriers let's have a photograph come on settle down uh i think we have a few last words of wisdom hi my name is my name is canaan slinsford and i joined scouts along with all these young girls so i could learn to do stuff like she said other than clean a car and stuff like that i think it could really help me with what i could do in the future and what i want to do and i think it'd be nice to do like stuff that the boys can do and have all those opportunities like the rest of the boy scouts and be able to do all those things like repair cars build rocket ships program computers stuff like that that they do and i think that'd be really good and it also teaches you a lot of stuff like the reverence and trustworthy and stuff so i think it'll be great you can sit down permanently now i won't get you back up our next proclamation will be um

[0:08:29] the development disabilities awareness month which is march 2019. do i have is amanda here or somebody from the um development disabilities awareness group do i see some back there come on how are you today come on around the month of march 2019 has been designated as developmental disabilities awareness month in order to celebrate and recognize people with disabilities individuals with developmental disabilities their families friends and neighbors and co-workers encourage everyone to focus on the abilities of all people and individuals with developmental disabilities are entitled to enjoy participate in and share the same benefits privileges and protection afforded other citizens of our city county state and nation and i encourage all citizens to support opportunities for individuals with developmental disabilities that include full access to education housing employment and recreation and now therefore in order to recognize the many contributions and challenges of citizens with developmental disabilities living in san angelo i brenda gunter mayor of the city of san angelo on behalf of the city council do hereby proclaim the month of march 2019 is developmental disabilities awareness month and encourage all citizens to observe the month with appropriate programs and activities furthermore we encourage all citizens to seek information from those organizations with expertise in matters concerning professionals who support individuals with intellectual and developmental

[0:10:33] disabilities hello i'm greg rowe with mhmr executive director and um with me i have the concho valley bobcats this is our basketball team and what we like to think about at mhmr is the ability and not the disability in developmental and developmental intellectual and developmental disabilities um the ability is this team is this is part of our team not the entire team but just two weeks ago won the tournament in abilene for special olympics and they're about to go at the end of this month for uh their six time win where we anticipate in up in big spring at howard college for hip streams and goals it's a big celebration of the abilities of folks with intellectual disabilities it's a great event and this team is uh really triumphed over many others in fact had an injury several injuries last two weeks ago with the san angelo state support living center playing against them they're pretty intense team but uh they're very good we also have a couple of i think um cassie you're a cheerleader is that correct and we have some cheerleaders we have a cheer team and uh we usually get most spirit award as well so these guys is a great group of people um mhmr we try to support folks with uh mental health issues as well as idd issues um this last year we served uh 1440 individuals with an intellectual disability that alone so thank you for your support for our team our services and what we do in the community so thank you mayor very much [Applause] this

[0:12:40] um thank you at this time we will ask and remind everybody to please turn your cell phones on off or vibrate or silent we would appreciate that respect i've also been asked by the city attorney to make some housekeeping announcements for city council one we are not allowed to get up out of our seats and go visit with another council member to discuss an item that's on currently being discussed and number two any sidebar items between two council members will have to be made public comment we ask that people in the audience not text or send notes to council members during the discussion of an item thank you with that we will open up for public comment issues or items that are not on the regular agenda may be raised by the public at this time citizens should speak from the podium begin by stating their name and limit remarks to less than three minutes council members may request that a discussed item be placed on a future agenda the council takes public comment on all regular agenda items during the discussion of those items

[0:14:43] do we have anyone in the audience today who would like to come forward and make public comment good morning council my name is kimberly hawley i am the budget manager i just wanted to make an announcement and invite our community out for our cip forms um excuse me you want to tell them what cip is yes ma'am our capital improvement plan we're having public comment in open forums we're going to have an online forum this thursday and it will be on facebook live at san angelo public information facebook page and then we'll have a um that'll begin at 7 30 p.m and then on tuesday we're going to have a town hall meeting here in council chambers and that'll begin at 5 30 in the after evening and we also have our draft cip available for our community on the cip page and we have an online survey as well and that's available at cosa tx dot us slash cip you want to repeat the date for the public forum yes ma'am that's going to be this thursday online at the city facebook page at 7 30 as well as a town hall forum on tuesday march 12th starting at 5 30 here at council chambers thank you thank you any further public comment with no further public comment we will close that item on the agenda and we will move into the consent agenda i will start with tommy hebert do you have anything you'd like to pull from the consent agenda um let's pull adam f jerry no man lucy no ma'am lane and billy

[0:16:45] we do want to make one correction on the consent agenda before we move forward and that is is on item a the agenda says september 26 2019 that should actually say february so if you'll just make that notation with that do i have a motion to approve all items on consent agenda except for item f is there a second with a motion and a second we will vote on all items except f all in favor say aye aye any opposed motion passes seven consent agenda passes seven zero tom do you want to talk about item f which is a second reading of an ordinance approving the abandonment and vacation of a 15 foot wide by 400 foot long 0.137 acres or 6 000 square feet public alley located east of bowie street and south of east 44th street john you want to offer information i just pulled this up from from first reading just in case there were questions john i've talked with the owner who's requested this easement so as you can see on the stripe there on the screen that whole red line what if she's the only one that follows up on taking care of her part of the abandonment what happens to the rest of it is it okay to do a partial abandonment to where she gets her part and we abandon the other 200 feet so the short answer is it depends on what you guys decide uh the recommendation that comes to you from staff we have traditionally recommended either closing the entire alley or closing none of it so we would prefer not to close say you know just a piece of it leaving the rest of it as as still a platted alley that has been done in the past it can create complications down the road uh but it's it's entirely at your discretion but again the recommendation that comes to you is is to close the

[0:18:48] whole alley if for some reason some of those property owners don't claim their portion of the alley um or otherwise it doesn't result in the abandonment then the whole abandonment becomes void um within the time frame established and i would have to go back and look usually that's 12 months i think we might have established a little bit longer in this case do we tell us what the complications down the road would be mayor while he's looking i'll speak code enforcement could be an issue the confusion between what [Music] a property owner might feel they were obligated to maintain oh i didn't accept that abandonment so i don't have to maintain that there there could be code enforcement complications we have a form that one could take from neighbor to neighbor to ensure that they sign off on it yes i mean we information will be sent to all the property owners uh and in this case we've given a uh i think 180 days for for them to respond and say whether or not they want to claim their portion of the alley another issue that if you choose to go the partial abandonment route what we wouldn't want to happen is is her to claim her piece maybe this owner claimed their piece but then you have maybe a a middle area that's that's still technically public right of way but in no way accessible to the city or the public and so we would have to guard against that as well so how many people did we hear from on this issue how many neighbors opposed or commented or did whatever this is one that i think the normal practice is to make a decision on abandonment and then we send out information to all of the affected property owners and they would either claim or or not claim their share

[0:20:52] um i think the the concern is if they if they don't respond at all if they respond to us and say i just claim any rights to that alley then the property owner across the alley could claim it or perhaps if they don't want it you know one property owner could could claim this piece and the whole length of the alley but that process kicks off after you've decided whether or not to abandon it and again this decision to abandon it doesn't technically abandon it it kicks off the process to proceed with abandoning it right go ahead tom my question the landowner the homeowner that's requested this has already spent significant amount of money five six hundred dollars if this doesn't go through is that all wasted is there a refund potential on that well there's there's not a refund for the application fee she would not be obligated to pay we calculate the cost of basically buying back her share of the alley she doesn't have to pay that until the time at which we transfer you know we do a quick claim that transfers the property to her so if if for some reason this fails and doesn't actually result in an abandonment she would not be out that additional money she would be at the initial application fee okay i'm just a little confused why we would wait till the council approves the abandonment before we start the conversation with the citizens about the abandonment it sort of seems backward like you'd want to have that whole conversation make sure people understand it they like it they don't like it maybe the majority does maybe they don't but for us to pass it first and then start the conversation with the citizens on the abandonment does not seem like the right protocol and pattern that should be followed i'm just saying let me let me clarify we actually do send out a notice to all of the affected property owners uh so they have every opportunity to respond and say they're in favor or against they can come to the meeting and speak but what

[0:22:54] we don't do until after this action is go to them and say okay do you want to claim your portion of the alley i think the property owner requesting this is here would you like to come forward and add some comment to this please come forward just state your name if you would please good morning my name is ann joseph we're good you just take a deep breath take a deep breath would you like some water no i would like to not be so easily um unsettled by things um i find that happens when i'm in a lot of pain so just please bear with me um to answer the question about any uh response uh two people on block 38 responded with positive us in support there was one response on a neighboring block the woman expressed concern about if it's abandoned that will increase the traffic we have the sense being she felt perhaps that abandonment meant that it was going to be developed but she's on another block so we're not even talking about on block 38 owners um my grandpa always said actions speak louder than words and that's pretty much the foundation or reason for my concern about what if we move forward with the entire alleyway being abandoned and the east end owners those on the east end of the block do not abandon do not take steps to own their property that they can are the alleyway that's abandoned um i agree you know about coordinating uh in fact mr jeff fisher had through this process encouraged me to reach out to all the property owners which on the 13th of february i did um i there was only one person at that point that had contacted real estate to say yes i want to buy the property that

[0:24:57] was the owner of lot four all the other east end owners didn't contact so i reached out to everybody i spoke with every owner and or their family member their partner and even went to the effort to find someone within the city who was fluent in spanish to be able to speak with two property owners who are their english is better than my spanish but i couldn't uh answer all their questions they never reached out to that person to get their questions answered so by the 25th of february i'm feeling concerned are these people they they seem to be in favor of abandonment they're definitely not against it they've they but they're not moving on this so as has been uh determined that if they don't move on it and buy their part then this whole thing is for naught the reason why i've initiated this effort is because the alleyway is too close to my house my house was built in 1960. the current codes require at least five feet from the wall that has doors and windows from the um alleyway line and my house is less than that on top of which right there we have the electric meter the gas meter the gas connector and that makes me say those codes are in place for a reason for the safety of the citizens of of our city and the residents of in this case that house so whereas that alleyway has i've been a resident of san angelo since 87. i've lived in that house since 2011. there has never been through traffic vehicular traffic through that alleyway can't be because even when i moved in there there's brush there's a roast bush pomegranate trees that would prevent passage so all i am endeavoring to do through this request which you have the power to make happen or not is to create a safe situation for that structure and those residents to make a non-issue those things that are currently issues of safety and code standards that are in effect now

[0:26:59] i have talked to the fire department like way back when uh one of the the nearby fire firehouse asked if you get called up for a fire do you use the alleyway and the gentleman said they're too narrow up there we always address any issues on the street and the alleyway is 15 feet now our alleyway has been made more narrow by the addition of electric poles there on either side at one point where it's even reduced even more narrowly um i hope that you will see fit to vote in support of abandoning the west 200 feet of this alley and uh would like to point out that if those on the east end wish to pursue that on their own the fact that you would vote for the west 200 feet to be abandoned would not preclude their ability to do that in the future it's still an option and it does not go against any code that's in place right now by leaving 200 feet with city and abandoning the remaining 200 would you have any other questions does anyone from council have a question that they would like to ask and um with what we've got proposed here and you know i've spoke a couple times on the telephone yes sir with what we have here we're just going to move forward we're going to go with i think i will propose a whole abandonment of the whole thing and then if those people don't come through like they should we'll come back and look at just your 200. all right sir and all with all respect i don't think that the formal procedures and guidelines for ordinances and the review of of of items before your consideration would allow for that within like the six-month period of time that has been allocated let's let's get that addressed john james is that a possible based off of

[0:29:03] tom's motion or proposed motion is that workable or not well there's really two ways you could do it the way you suggested you could approve the whole abandonment um if it doesn't work out we could bring it back at you know she wouldn't have to file again or anything like that i think the other way we could do it if that's your intent is to effectively separate the two sides so abandon her 200 if she claims it then that's done still approve abandoning the other half of the alley and if those property owners come forward great if not it goes away but it's it's basically crea made independent from hers does that make sense it does but we're trying to avoid the bottleneck where if somebody claimed it on one in and somebody claimed it on the east end and the west end and then nobody claimed it in the center and i think what i'm saying is um that would happen you make that one abandonment right and then you make the rest one abandonment so all of the remaining property owners would still have to agree otherwise it would go away but it would separate hers from the rest i'm good with that is that the motion can you repeat that because i can't let's go i want to say with what john said well let's go first what john said let's make the motion on the abandonment on the west 200 feet of the alley and then an additional abandonment for anything east of that property line on a separate proposal is that even close to what we're trying to say i think you got it okay with that motion on the floor do i have a second with a second we will now take public comment is there any public comment with no public comment we will take a vote all in favor of the alley abandonment as proposed say aye aye non-opposed motion passes seven zero with that we will move into our regular

[0:31:09] agenda item a is a second reading of an ordinance approving case pd19-01 a rezoning from the neighborhood commercial cn zoning district to a planned development pd zoning district to allow neighborhood commercial cn uses as well as self-service storage and a single family detached dwelling located at 909 west beaugard avenue john this is a second reading you recall from your last meeting this is the property there beauregard park proposed for a storage and we talked about the aesthetics i'm just going to briefly go over some of the changes this is the concept plan for the layout of the site which really this part has not changed really the changes from last first reading are some of the design elements and i'll i'll defer primarily to the applicant but as i understand it the applicant has met with some of the neighbors the opponents and come up with this revised plan this is the original plan that you saw last time and so that's also from the original this is the revised design and again i'll defer to the applicant there's a little bit of design changes to the building itself uh you can see that what was a rock wall has been replaced by proposed hedge um and again that's the primary differences but i'll defer to to them to explain if there are others that they've worked out with the neighbors what is the maximum height allowed on that on the hedge that would typically be about four feet and then where it's at the corner with the street intersection there may be some changes there necessary if the four feet would block traffic visibility but normally it would be four feet in the front because what's odd about that property is if you pull up to the stop sign you see that lighter shade area there

[0:33:11] it's not normal at a street so there your ability to see down the road your right-of-way visibility is very strong even with a four-foot hedge right and that would be something which we would just look at with uh with traffic and it may not be an issue because of what you said but we would definitely look at that but yeah normally it would be a four foot maximum height there in the front rob would you like to come forward if there's any further questions from council i'm rob watkins good morning this is my daughter amberley watkins and we would like to answer any questions that you may have do have any questions from council questions i like to revise designs thank you for incorporating those into this picture right here certainly welcome thank you emily for getting that done and you know this will be going before the dhrc so we'll be finalizing you know any recommendations that they have my understanding is on that sight line brenda it's 36 inches but uh you know three feet but you know we'll we'll defer to dhrc and work with john james in the city to make sure we get that right as far as the height i'd like it to be the maximum height possible whatever it allows that's that's great bias okay okay all right with that do i have a motion for approval move to approve any further public comment with no further public comment we'll take a vote all in favor say aye aye none opposed it passes seven zero next item is item b second reading of an ordinance approving case pd 19-02 a request for approval of a rezoning from the general commercial

[0:35:14] heavy commercial cgch zoning district to the planned development pd zoning district to allow for uses permitted within the general commercial heavy commercial cgch zoning district and an off site sign with digital billboard face located at 3410 knickerbocker road john my first question on this item b is the following through that very long drug out conversation we had at the last city council meeting we divided it into two part parts but this on this agenda is back to the one part well it's it is still one case but just like we ended up last time i would encourage you to take really there are two issues one is what should the underlying zoning be on the property and the other is whether or not to allow the sign through the pd so i would encourage you to take those two issues separately discuss them and then vote separately that would i think that's what we learned last time is that would be a cleaner way to accomplish uh the decision do i have questions from counsel for john i don't have any questions but yeah i have i have comments um i believe from what i hear from my constituents is not to conflict a sign case with a zoning case you have it listed here to where it kind of coincides together [Music] i've also spoken with tommy roberts from lamar i think we're all in agreeance that's it's the best interest for the area to go with the sign ordinance and that way we don't set a precedence on going in other areas where the site ordinance is into effect and trying to create problems there we try to find a compromise the first time but whenever it was presented to me that a sign ordinance any zoning case shouldn't be together that's the first that's the first reason that i split the two votes together but as this is listed

[0:37:17] as one i think uh it's the best interest to just take it as one case um so i'll make the motion to deny let me see if there's any further questions comments from council before we go for a motion i just wanted to make yes lucy um before i had voted for the the billboard and after much consideration and a lot of citizens putting in their input this last week um i will be changing my vote to against the sign do i john on the zoning of the property is there a great deal of difference between the neighborhood commercial and the general commercial designation i mean would it would one or the other create um a situation that would you know maybe end up being like the um car wash going into the area it's it's really a matter of degree and i think we included in your your background information a comparison of the cn and cg districts the biggest differences between those two districts are the cg would allow alcohol sales it would allow car dealers it would allow car wash by right a car wash could be allowed in cn but it would have to get a special permission heavy equipment rental vehicle repair those are the kinds of things that are allowed in cg that wouldn't be allowed in cn and if i remember correctly from the last meeting most of the discussion was held around the cn that that is what your constituents were looking for zoning of cn okay all right that was that was staff's recommendation to downgrade all the way to cn okay but from what i've heard if i'm an understanding with the constituents that

[0:39:20] i've talked with just to to deny the case as is zoning and billboard let's go back to that front man yes billy before you go on so you're saying leave it as cgch have a commercial what i'm saying is let's talk some more about it i'm not saying one way or the other yet no i was asking lane if that's what he was saying if we deny the whole thing wouldn't it leave it as cgch that is one conversation i had with constituents so and they're okay with them i'd like to hear you're okay with that am i getting nods well we need a vote before we get to public comment i mean we need a motion before we go to public comment i made my motion wait let's okay but billy has a question well he answered it to leave it as cgc i mean heavy commercial the a car wash a car repair i'm hearing from you well pd allows for car wash itself so the zoning that we allowed it to be changed to didn't prevent a car wash from going there so the motion well i thought the mayor it was cn neighborhood commercial it wasn't again it could be you you all could vote to to not approve the pd allowing the sign but you could still rezone the underlying zoning of the property you could you could deny the whole thing leave it as cgch or you could take it to cg or to cn those are all options that you have available so the number one issue could be to leave zoning as it is number two issues to allow it to be pd which doesn't stop the businesses that they're most concerned about the pd could also change the underlying zoning to ch cgcn so you have all of those options available but we also know that based off of that zoning if you look at the picture go back to the original picture

[0:41:26] you have just one partial out of that whole thing that you would be changing so whatever could happen next to it could happen because you're just changing the one and so the reality is i don't think it makes sense to change the zoning for one partial of property when the property next to it the zoning remains the same so the idea would have be to have a motion not to change the zoning at all and to in fact say that we don't approve of variance and by not changing the zoning it will not allow for a sign to be put up right i believe my motion right would deny both is that correct would deny the sign and deny the zoning change so we're going to take it as one motion not two separate motions i think you asked that we do it in two motions i thought we did it first and i think that's how he was asking but if i'd make the motion to deny both it denies it in one public comment please good morning everyone uh topper roberts with more advertising uh live at 3918 karen drive in aveline texas i think a lot of you folks know me from last time we were up here um we have i've had some conversations with lane about this case and i know that everyone's values are in the right place um and when we came before you before we worked really hard to make a consensus with the community on compromising uh but now that uh the community feels so strongly against the billboard uh i do understand the position that some of you folks some of you council members that voted with us last time have changed their minds and i totally understand that uh you know to stick with the existing sign orders that makes a lot of sense but i hope it may also make sense that this is one of my most valuable assets and so it made sense for me to ask to have this uh help with this case because it's been done before and so you know

[0:43:30] when you see a company like cyanad out of houston who comes in and is allowed to build to go outside the sign orange to build a digital in this community where they don't employ anyone or i do that hurts my business and then in the case the previous case like on beauregard where the city is you know compelling our landowner to not do business with us it hurts my business and in this case where we've had a lease with someone for 30 years they're wanting to develop the property and then all of a sudden they cancel my lease it hurts my business and so i would ask that the direction of staff to to discontinue trying to compel my landowners not to do business with me let's work in cooperation i think there's some things that we can do to help reduce the number of billboards and give us ability to build back in areas where signage is needed i'd love to meet with daniel or the other city staff to discuss this but i'm in favor of denying this i do i'm not in favor of changing the underlying zoning mr moore was adamant that he only did that to help reach a compromise so let's deny it completely and and that way maybe we can save a lot of time we won't have a three-hour discussion about this let's vote it down let's move on let's keep the sign orders in place but let's just know moving forward that you know other my competitors can't come back and ask for the same thing and that get granted and that would be my wish thank you thank you very much for the public comment please come forward state your name my name is greg gossett i'm a lawyer here in san angelo and it's kind of deja vu all over again i just want to remind the council that over 25 years ago we had a billboard company from abilene come down and had issues with our sign ordinance and the city attempted to get around the signing ordinance by what we call spot zoning and that case went to district court here in san angelo and judge stein one of the most respected judges that our communities had held with the city's sign ordinance with regard to spot zone and was unconstitutional and illegal and it threw it out it's what we have again here which they're withdrawing now so i'll be real

[0:45:31] brief is another 10th spot zone which the courts here have already thrown out once before and so we don't need to go down that road again thank you greg for the public comment my name is susan mertz and my husband mort and i are residents of the vista del arroyo neighborhood i have a master's in urban planning i've served on many boards and i am currently vice president of the fairmont cemetery board i wish to protest the re-zoning of the site located at 3410 knickerbocker for any type of new rezoning and a static or digital billboard staff denied lamar's request to rezone the property to a planned development zoning district or pd but lamar has used this to circumvent and break the existing sign ordinance on knickerbocker by allowing this you set up a dangerous new procedure that sign companies will use to justify new billboards where they aren't allowed remember the sign ordinance was put in place to reduce billboards on knickerbocker not add to them and lamar has compromised on a static sign but in fact it will be amended to digital the new ordinance even states the procedure in section 5. furthermore the proposed digital sign will negatively impact the vista del arroyo neighborhood by creating light and visual pollution 24 7. and who wants this in their front or back yards you also have over 50 letters of protest against this rezoning the proposed billboard is 24 feet long or the length of a two-story house and 10 feet high so how tall will the pole

[0:47:35] be that this thing is going to go on it's got to be higher than the existing digital or the existing sign of sonic right drivers do take their eyes off the road in fact lamar's sales material thank you and finally uh lane thank you your cam uh your uh campaign sign says bring the vote back to the people let your voice be heard we are speaking i know you're listening and in closing no violation of the sign ordinance no resigning and no can promise on static or digital billboards on knickerbocker thank you further public comment good morning my name is linda wilson and i am a neighbor of this very eloquent lady who just stood before you i'm very pleased to see that uh mr roberts and lamar realize how unique and wonderful san angelo is uh i'm on i had a whole lot of stuff and i'm happy to say that we're not going to have to do that and spend three hours on this this morning but we do appreciate all of the time that you all have taken to consider these issues to consider the neighborhoods and it really speaks well of the council and of the neighborhoods that we've all tried to work together and come to a consensus i just have one thing that i want read into the record i have a magazine before me that has a 3 million 3 million household circulation it's cowboys and indians and i'm pretty sure all of you here are familiar with cowboys and indians especially the ladies rod stegall red steagle is the poet laureate of texas and in a recent interview with wilson franklin of lady boots he talks about our city and i want to take the opportunity to put this into record because this is a magazine that reaches 3 million households in texas and the people don't spend 8 seconds they spend

[0:49:39] 60 to 90 minutes going through this thing red steagle you know san angelo is one of those unique places i think that there are two towns in texas that have their own life and their own character and that's san angelo and alpine they're not influenced by a major city in any way they make and break themselves and i love it that's san angelo thank you for keeping it that way thank you for reminding us of that further public comment you want this i'm janie delaney thank you i live in vista de la roya neighborhood and i did speak before the planning zoning commission in regard to or in opposition to the billboard at the sonic on knickerbocker and i would like to reiterate that objection to down zoning this specific address in order to allow for a 25 to 30 foot digital billboard that will flash day and night the sign ordinance must be retained which allows for no new billboards on knickerbocker static or digital not only is changing the zoning on this specific plot and an inappropriate use of pd which by definition in the city's website is planned development districts quoting from the website these districts are particularly useful when planning large-scale development with multiple uses further guidelines for the pd ordinance says it may establish specific guidelines for land use landscaping facade treatment screening setbacks signage parking and other items obviously this does not apply to this small plot of land

[0:51:44] so this designation applies more to a new subdivision totally inappropriate to down zone one address to allow for a new billboard and it would be new whether it's static or digital and as you well know a static digital billboard one year can become a digital billboard in the very near future lane i'm asking you and other council members who voted in favor of the zone change to now vote against it there is nothing wrong with changing one's mind after careful deliberation and purposeful fact-finding thank you very much thank you further public comment one last call for public comment i see no one coming forward so we will take a vote all in favor of the motion say aye any opposed no 6-1 passes next item on the agenda is item c second reading a public hearing of an amendment to the zoning ordinance establishing a new standards for regulating mobile food trucks on public and private property in the city of san angelo john you're on thank you again john james director of planning and development services so in instead of going through the entire ordinance like we did on first reading excuse me um we've got those slides in case there are questions but what i'm intend to do is just go through the changes as you know you all directed us to make a few changes with your motion on first reading

[0:53:46] in the meantime we also met with the food truck operators and have made some some modifications as well to address some of their concerns and so i'll go through those real quickly here one of the ones that you all mentioned was creating an exemption for private catering so we've done that we clarified that the limitation on locating too close to a residence would not apply to snow cones and pre-packaged food vendors which would include ice cream trucks and because the health code doesn't have a definition of snow cone vendor we created a definition for that that would basically allow ice cream trucks and snow cones to go through and stop in residential neighborhoods we also changed the limit for operating within a residential area but for non-residential uses like churches and schools and day cares as well as apartments and talking with the food truck operators they said if we change that from four to six hours that would help them in terms of their operational characteristics and staff didn't have a problem with that we did change the wording for the requiring the all-weather surface to apply to all food trucks we basically removed the four-hour exemption the original ordinance had said if you're only setting up for less than four hours you wouldn't have to be on a paved or all weather surface after some discussion we decided that it was probably best just to say across the board they need to be on a an improved surface that doesn't necessarily require asphalt or concrete it could be caliche or gravel or something like that that meets our we have a pre-existing definition for all-weather surface for food trucks in the public right-of-way this was one of the issues that was a big concern to some of the food truck operators that four hour limit by the time they set up serve a meal take down they're already over four hours but they also some of them pointed out that they they'll set up before breakfast serve through breakfast stay

[0:55:49] there and serve through lunch as well and so clearly the four hours doesn't work for that and so our recommendation was to increase that to 12 hours as a maximum to accommodate that concern however the ordinance does still say they would be subject to any existing parking restrictions so for example in a downtown area where the parking is limited to three hours they would still have to abide by that three hour limit and then we clarified that the the intent of the ordinance was to say that you can't operate within 100 feet of a restaurant if you're parking in the public right-of-way uh it wasn't clear the way it was written before so if if you're on private property you could be right next to a restaurant if you're operating on private property this would only apply within the public right-of-way or the street then one of the issues that was raised was that three days you can if you're if you're mobile not setting up at your commissary uh you can set up for three days but then you would have to leave that location for three days um and that was some discussion we talked about a couple of different options here three days but then you'd have to leave overnight or three days you have to leave for 24 hours at the end of the day staff's recommendation is still to say if you're truly mobile the idea is you're moving around that you you could be there three days but you would have to leave for three days if you want to operate more more permanently then you would need to set up at your commissary and then we've identified three what i call outstanding issues these are the issues that there was still some disagreement with the food truck operators um at the end of our discussions staff didn't feel comfortable making recommendation for a change but you'll hear from some of them some of the reasons they support changes to these three items so i'll briefly go through those one is that 100 foot separation from an existing restaurant or bar they would prefer that to be reduced down to 50 or 75 feet and in a minute

[0:57:53] i'll show you a map of how that might affect downtown in particular our ordinance as drafted would require written consent from the school district to operate near a school they would prefer that verbal consent be allowed staff believes that for enforcement purposes written consent would would still be necessary we did hear from the school district this morning they sent an email saying yes they number one they wanted to be able to sign off on food trucks operating near schools but they preferred that to be in writing too just to avoid confusion so the school district also supports that john could that be an email it could be an email yes an email from the principal or superintendent's office something like that yes it wouldn't have to be a formal letter and then the final issue is the requirement to be to meet building setbacks if you're set up at your commissary that's where we're allowing food trucks to uh basically set up permanently at one site uh our recommendation was that if you're going to do that then the food truck itself needs to meet the same building setbacks as a building would what is that setback john it's going to vary by zoning district and street normally a front setback would be 25 feet side setbacks can be anywhere from 0 5 10 something like that and and i know that's going to be an issue for some of the food trucks if we move before we move off that particular one if memory serves me correctly last week when we had this meeting with food truck operators there were only two food truck operators that had this particular issue and both of them could have been resolved by just moving the truck a few feet if that's memory is that correct well that that's correct for one i think there was the uh the second one uh the tacos uh location there on konichine or is it it's

[0:59:55] abraconecom and concho uh i'm not sure if they can that's a very small site they may have a little bit more of an issue i went by and looked at that particular one they can readjust they have their tables and chairs set up east of where the truck is set up i think if they shut the truck where the where the picnic tables are and move the picnic tables out front they could comply with that very quickly i should mention there is also the opportunity through the zoning the normal zoning ordinance an opportunity to seek a variance from that standard for a hardship situation that that's a good example of one that may actually be able to make that case the existing building there i think at least on some sides is already encroaching into the setback it's a very small property so that's that's the third issue and so here are some of those maps this is this is a hundred feet i'll point out from that that meeting one of the concerns of the food truck operators was that if you if you require them not to set up within 100 feet of an existing food service establishment their concern was this whole stretch of of chadburn it basically eliminates most of that street uh for setting up and then quite a bit of concho as well but that wouldn't if it was in a parking lot right that's correct it was a private parking lot it wouldn't so that's not particularly a great graph because it does not show where they would be able to set up on chadburn because any of the privately owned parking lots could allow it that's correct this would only apply within the street you know within the street corridor itself and so uh let me skip this for a second i've got a couple of graphics where if you shrink that to 75 feet that's what it would look like and then shrinking down to 50 feet limit it much more and so

[1:01:58] if again i know some of the food truck operators may come up and and what they proposed in the meeting with us was either 50 or 75 feet so if we can come back to these maps if you have questions later john just for clarification and that's only during the operation hours hours of operation for those businesses is that correct so after after hours it's that's no longer the 100 foot requirements no longer there is that correct right if a restaurant's closed for example a food truck could set up right in front of it yeah that's right the only other thing i wanted to mention we included this in your packet that this isn't directly related to the ordinance itself but the ordinance says that food trucks would only be located in parks in designated locations and so the parks department has created this list of proposed locations i'm not going to read through all of them but you can see uh here the various locations they've proposed two slides here and all of these parks as well and does that mean there's going to be specified areas so they understand for their i mean for their own knowledge so that they're not constantly guessing that what is allowed or not allowed in the parks are there going to be specific areas that say this this is the area so there's no confusion from anybody my understanding i may defer to carl uh to answer exactly what his intentions are in terms of how they're going to designate those but yeah that's my understanding is that they'll designate areas within each of these parks yeah carl did you want to come comment on that just to answer the question while we're on the subject we debated how best to do that and we what we settled on was basically we take parking areas in the parks and designate them with a sign in that parking area that says a parking area designated for food truck vendors we thought about maybe just striping off a few spaces in the parking area we thought that be too restrictive the vendors didn't quite like that so we

[1:04:01] opened it up made it more flexible okay thank you carl before you leave another question here yeah before you leave one of the questions from the food truck operators last week when we met was what about the lake vending at the lake is already authorized under chapter nine of the code of ordinances but i will add to that there are some it's not just free-for-all at the lake there are some restrictions that people do have to follow if they're going to be a vendor at the lake and i think john might have information related to what those rules are i didn't include them in the in the presentation but yes the that existing code of ordinances as carl mentioned has a list of standards that they have to meet and i think there's a permit they have to get as well is that from the police department there's a permanent requirement from the water utilities director but talking with allison i believe that she's just going to accept the permit that anybody who solicits in the right-of-way would have to get as the permit to sell at the lake as well i know there are some restrictions related to distances from operating leases that we have out there where they can park so if anybody's intending on selling at the lake they should makes themselves familiar with those rules as well do i have further questions for john from council harry i think one of the questions john if you go back to now come back a couple of slides forward back forward i heard that yeah this is the first slide i understand come come forward okay the other way sorry well you have some options other forward okay back there one head has options okay so as we get ready to hang out yes thank you have some discussion here and uh somebody makes a motion

[1:06:03] to recommend or not how are we going to go through these options are we going to go through and just pick those particular options or what do we want to do well we we've included a revised version of the ordinance which accommodates everything all of that list of i said these were the changes that were made uh so this is the one that there was no change made so if you're comfortable with that staff recommendation with those changes then the motion would just be to approve or the motion would be to approve with the following changes and then let us know which changes that you would want to see either you know one of these options on this screen or if you wanted to make any changes to these three outstanding issues you might take these you might take these one by one and just discuss do you want to change the 100 feet do you want to address written permission from the school do you want to address setbacks just so you take one at a time billy did you have a comment or question i do on the previous slide i think all right so um maximum three days at one location then must vacate for three days as we go through the discussion that i'm sure we're going to have what's the problem if they're there three days and i'm assuming that's 24 7 is that correct um what is the problem if they vacate overnight and come back the next day what's the problem with that i think one of the problems is just from an enforcement perspective knowing when they're there and when they're gone the other issue is we're we're basically making exceptions to the mobile rules for trucks that want to set up permanently at a location and without their commissary well after by by doing that they need to go to their commissary so this is basically

[1:08:05] saying you either have to sit up sort of permanently at your commissary or you really need to be mobile and so what we don't want is someone to be three days go away overnight come back for another three days they're effectively becoming permanent at that location without having to meet all of the other standards that would normally apply to somebody setting up permanently so it's really a way to ensure that they are truly mobile and moving around from place to place not skirting around the the idea of of not setting up in one place without meeting the rules thank you lucy and john on this uh when you updated your on the first reading for the food trucks in the public away changed from four to 12 hours and you were talking about them setting up and it taken them longer on setting up but you also said at the end if i heard you correctly that it still would be three hours if they were in a right-of-way or if they were in the parking restriction area i can you explain that to me yeah i think the idea that you all discussed last time was that if if there's an area like in downtown or there may be others around town where parking is limited to a certain number of hours then the food trucks would have to honor that same limitation they would have to move they would have to right so if you're in an area and there are parking stalls that you can only park in for three hours and then you have to leave that same limitation would apply to a food truck and if they wanted to operate longer than that they would have to go to a location in the right of way where there's no restricted parking of course part of the reason for that is in the downtown where there's lots of things going on and not a whole lot of parking you want to create that turnover and parking and so it could be problematic if a food truck was there all day that's taking up customer parking spaces for all of the other businesses in downtown

[1:10:08] um now john to get on any private property say a parking lot that's open to the general public there would have to be written permission for a food truck to be on yes the pr in any case the if your private property the private property owner has to give you permission to be on that property thank you do i have further questions for john maps for the 50 and 75 and 100 can you go back to those notice that you have the pinpoint is that is the center of the pinpoint the door of the location yes okay because that's the way the ordinance is worded is it's measured from the the you know main entrance to the restaurant very often the main entrance is to either the far right or the far left it's not in the center of the property yeah and that's i mean that's only going to vary you know at most probably 20 or 30 feet but yes those those dots represent uh that front door of each of those establishments what i see at the 100 it really does cut off a lot and can you go back to the 50 the 50 looks to me like it would it would definitely prevent parking right in front of the restaurant so i could probably be in support of this if this was a 50. less a restriction on that go back to the hunter would you please corner of two week in chad burn right there there's a parking lot and even in that particular case there are several spots in that particular parking lot that are available that are outside the 100 foot plus that's on private property it's not on the the right-of-way is that correct that's right is this the parking lot you're talking about correct yeah so actually anywhere within that parking lot they could set up because as the mayor pointed out that the hundred feet doesn't apply so you know one way you could look at this is just kind of cutting that off

[1:12:10] so the restricted areas are really just in the in the right of way there so those it would not apply to any of the private properties and there's plenty of private properties on the side streets you see the side streets there as well which they could do after business hours brilliant this is intended to protect those brick and mortar businesses that have a heavy investment in the downtown area um i mean our from the very get-go staffs recommendation uh was 100 feet and that's still going to be our recommendation and it really is to protect those individuals that have a heavy investment in the downtown area i guess one other thing mary just a reiteration of what's been said typically the restaurants will close approximately 10 o'clock on friday and saturday night maybe not but close those food truck operators generally operate from 11 to 2 which is i'm surprised that's the first time in three years that somebody's had to tell me to speak up wow and now it's ringing i guess my point being is is those food truck operators typically are serving between 11 and 2 when those patrons are getting ready to leave some of those downtown nightclubs so if if they typically wait until the uh restaurant is closed then they don't have to be with it they they can be within that foot is that correct that's correct the 100 foot only applies when the food service establishment is open and operating all right so harry are you going to make a a minute billy sorry before he makes that motion um the 100 feet john give me an example i'm just thinking about um oh the restaurant on the corner of chadburn and

[1:14:12] bergaard um that's closed right now few entities so where could a food truck park if it was 50 feet so you can see here they could there's a little bit of an area there they could park they could they could park around the corner here park across the street or on this part of beauregard and then if we go to the and there's parking lot there behind that building too so then the 75 you could still get on the beauregard and then across the street it would pretty much limit it on the same side of the street as fuentes and then if you go to the 100 feet you can see it it shrinks that area it it eliminates this other side of the street and this area would still be okay but you can kind of see how that changes from each of the different distances well did we hear from any brick and mortar restaurants regarding the 175 or 50 foot restriction well i'm not going to speak because i don't want to be presented as a conflict of interest but i think del velasquez is in the as in the audience and he represents the downtown association well can we ask a question before we make the motion well that's what i said if you want dell to come forward he represents downtown san angelo so he represents all the businesses downtown and i don't want it to be perceived conflict of interest because i own a restaurant no ma'am we don't want that morning good morning council del velasquez downtown san angelo executive director um yes we have heard from various property owners not just prop not just business owners but property owners as well and they are concerned about the fact that they pay multiple taxes to operate in a brick and mortar which food trucks do not and as far as our organization is concerned our

[1:16:15] goal has always been for the last 12 years since we've been in existence as a downtown san angelo organization and that is to protect our historic properties our historic buildings and protect the integrity of our businesses downtown i certainly agree that a hundred feet is is appropriate uh as far as for food trucks um as we've already stated they uh typically do not show up until later in the evenings after the restaurants are closed my understanding is they also can apply or go to the restaurant owner and ask for permission to park in a certain area or within that hundred feet area if the restaurant owner provides them a written consent to allow them to do that and i know in talking again to some of our restaurant owners downtown they've agreed they said that they didn't some of them don't have an issue with giving permission for them um and there's so there's multiple uh advantages that have been provided through this ordinance for food trucks to be able to operate i think there's one one element that we're talking about now which is much more protective of the brick and mortar and i think that uh council would be prudent to allow or to vote for the 100-foot uh restriction so um dale just so i'm clear some business owners downtown have stated to you that if a food truck asks permission to be closer than 100 feet they might be willing to give them written permission to do so yes ma'am thank you thank you dale so john could you go back over um the no change list that you had

[1:18:27] did you just want to go back to the slide or did did you have a question okay was staff recommending that we stay at 100 feet from 100 feet yes we recommend 100 feet we recommend keeping the written permission from the school and we recommend keeping the building setbacks for food trucks at their commissary now did you say earlier that um a variance could be request you know i'm not in favor much of too many variances but did you say if there's a particular issue with the setback that the owner could request a variance yes that would be a possibility okay thank you harry you want to make a motion i move to approve as presented keeping the hundred foot keeping the three days keeping the written consent for school districts and the setbacks a second that motion is there public comment i just want to make sure that uh council realizes that in downtown we have an inordinate amount of non-profit organizations and that's that's just part of the fact that we're downtown city county uh city properties county properties uh there's a lot of institutions that are non-profits that are located in downtown and so our tax base is is limited because of those those those uh uh and it's just the fact of life this is the way it was when downtowns were created and back in the day that's where everybody was and so subsequently we have a large number of properties that are not taxable these businesses that we're referencing are paying taxes and contribute to the tax base and so i just wanted to put that out there in relationship to

[1:20:31] continue to protect those that are that are paying accessible tax well not accessible but taxes that increase and help our our city meet its goals and objectives as far as our infrastructure and all the other things that that you all make decisions on relative to the financial goals thank you further public comment our city council steve hampton i uh i think you're swatting at nats uh on this stuff i wonder how new york and chicago allow street vendors as they do and uh we don't have the problems i don't see how you think a a truck parked uh has to have all of these requirements uh when uh and it's it's temporary already i just don't uh somebody's gonna uh homestead uh uh a a parking space uh and uh and make a living at it i i just don't uh understand that i also don't understand how you think a truck is going to offer the same atmosphere as a restaurant and and the benefits that restaurants offer i i can't see any comparison between the mayor's restaurant and one of these food trucks at all i just can't grasp it so i i think uh you're being unusually harsh i think they offer a festive atmosphere at times and add to the uh the the life of downtown uh and i don't understand how you can restrict them so thank you thank you further public comment if i might one more question john i want to make a comment on this particular ordinance really opens

[1:22:36] up the food truck to operate in a lot of different areas that by ordinance today they cannot is that correct that's correct okay i want the public to understand that because i keep hearing people say you're infringing on my rights it's it's put down this really opens it up so so much greater for these food shop operators to be able to get their their venue their their food out to several different other people that they today cannot do by ordinance now just because they're operating in some places which we have decided that we would while we were redoing this ordinance we would not enforce i think they people think that they we're taking someone with their rights away so i want that people to understand this opens it up that's right and i'll just point out chicago requires 200 feet from a restaurant for food service near a restaurant please come forward and state your name my name is adrian soto uh i wish i had more time because i could go over all those with y'all yeah three minutes okay so i'll just go to the 100 feet uh it shouldn't be done uh 50 feet is more than enough room originally when we talked there was nothing and then it was to 50 feet now 75 at feet and then it was restaurants and now that i'm noticing restaurants and bars that was never the conversation we've ever had behind closed doors like we're meeting as a group that was never brought up so that's just something extra so when we're talking about the 100 feet of a restaurant and operation hours of a restaurant well now you're including the bars the bars are open until two o'clock you'll never be able to operate on there they're taking away the entire chatbot almost the entire chat burn area it should be 50 feet there's nothing wrong with competition we've the food truckers pay tax dollars sales tax just like they do they have

[1:24:40] property tax just like the buildings do no but no business should have a precedent over another restaurant or another business opportunity for somebody else so i asked that unless that is changed to 50 feet i would ask all of y'all to vote no it's not right it's just not it's not right uh the written consent that seems i understand if the schools want that that's fair uh the setbacks would make reyna's you're right but the way she positioned her building you'd be messing her entire concept up so originally we talked about that too we're talking about rezoning that area and that was how lone star was going to be able to operate and reign as was going to be able to operate so unless that zoning happens i wouldn't think that applying the setbacks to the food trucks would be good for those businesses it would absolutely impact those businesses so that's just my comment thank you very much for the public comment does your motion include the three day and overnight or as is as written [Music] carlos rodriguez good morning welcome speak a little louder okay there we go you're so tall you're kind of far away from here yeah yeah it's good a little bit uh i want to thank you uh you know we are shaved ice truck and i just want to thank you for that exception you know uh you know we have that tradition that american tradition with the uh ice cream truck going through our neighborhoods and i'm glad we're keeping that tradition uh you'd be amazed to see how um as we're going through neighborhoods how neighbors come together and maybe normally don't talk to each other anymore but when they come out to the truck together it's uh it's good to see that we're we're going to keep that now i need some clarification we discussed the the lake a little bit and i know the lake is a city park and wasn't included in that i know there's some separate rules and stuff for that um i'm really not sure

[1:26:42] where to go get a permit we were getting at the police department where you go now to get a permit what does it cost it was 150 dollars and and kind of the rules we were out there last year and we we have a little mini truck that we parked in a parking slot at the beach area and we were stopped by the police department telling us we weren't allowed to do that so if i could get some clarification on that um the rules that deal with the lake are in a separate chapter it's in chapter nine which is actually the parks and um i don't know off the top of my head what all of those rules are but there are rules related to how close to the roads you can park how close to our least vendors you can park and those sorts of things the permit there is a separate permit requirement but as i said allison who is the the water utilities director she's the person who would issue that permit she's agreed that if you have a permit from the police department that's all that's going to be required i think that's all that lake patrol checks out there anyway and then of course you have to have a mobile food vendor permit if that's required as well but if you'd like copies of those you can contact me at my office and we can show you exactly where in the ordinance you can see those rules for parking at the lake and we are looking at revising that whole chapter nine it's just a very big undertaking so some of that might change in the future a hundred it's a hundred dollar program or it's 150 permits we paid last year and it's only for from easter to labor day so it's not even a year permit so i i find it well we don't have lake nas worthy on this particular conversation so you'll need to take that it's not part of this ordinance or the conversation so we really can't be talking further about it okay i'll meet with you certainly lots of information available for you to answer your question absolutely regarding the taxes you know um dale mentioned these uh downtown restaurant owners paying taxes uh believe me food trucks pay sales tax we employ employees uh we are a

[1:28:45] legitimate business you know we're not we we don't do this part-time i do it full-time so uh i just feel like that you know we can't undermine the contributions that food trucks have for our community uh they're the ones that are there when a church or a non-profit has a fundraising event and so they're given part of what they're making back to that organization so i think they're a big part of our community and we need to support those folks thank you very much further public comment clear i'm not saying that they don't pay taxes uh they do pay sales taxes but property taxes uh in relationship to what we're trying to accomplish as a downtown organization that was one of the reasons that we spearheaded the effort to start tears the tier zone collects funds and if you look at the tier zone south which is where downtown is we're constantly short of funds that are available for all of the applications that are being made by business owners or property owners uh for those funds and so there's always a shortfall there for us every every uh every year we just don't have enough money uh that is being requested from the from our business owners in downtown and so that's where i'm coming from i just want to make sure it's clear and as far as far as for the bars uh i i bet you anything in the world those bars would be more than willing to help uh the food trucks set up within their bar business because they don't serve food and they don't have to compete against uh the restaurants uh and that's a big reason i think a lot of the par bar owners uh don't go into the food industry because they're more interested in serving as an entertainment uh uh venue and one more thing and this is the fact um 80 of restaurants fail within the first year that's a very high percent uh and these are the brick and mortar um restaurants that are are being

[1:30:46] established so we need to take that into consideration did you have a question tom i've got a question on the sales tax i mean do they really pay sales tax or they charge the customer sales tax they collect it and convey it back that's correct okay so they're not paying sales tax they're taking the sales tax from the customer correct giving it in okay correct i just want to make sure it didn't get there that's true for the public comment your name again please hotel uh so the 100 feet i understand what you said the bar owners the bar owners would get permission would it then go to the restaurant to restaurant would you have to get permission from them too since the 100 feet overlap or if this particular business says i'm able to do their be there can i be there no matter what fuentes or stangos or miss hatties or angry cactus says well one of the things again that remember this when the business is closed if the restaurant's closed i'm talking about like during business hours i understand what you're saying yeah yeah yes the way it's written uh if you got permission from one bar or restaurant but there was another one within a hundred feet of that one then that hundred feet would still apply so so it still wouldn't matter even if the rush even if the bar owner did say yes the hundred feet overlaps the entire chad burn area so i just want to let that be known and thank you very much any further public comment good morning my name is um rosalva hernandez and i just do you lower the microphone just a little bit so we can hear you back i just wanted to know if it's going to affect me because i have a food truck and i park right outside of um swags the in the parking uh like in front of it right in front of it and the horse yes and they're the ones that call me

[1:32:48] and they um they saved like a spot so i could um they give me two parking spaces so that i could park and it's uh sometimes the police that they park their motorcycles in front and then when i get there they move them so that i could imprint of where uh swags and dead horses just right in front as soon as they come out and i mean when everybody leaves i make sure that i pick up trash and that i um and i mean i don't have tables or nothing i just serve the plates and then if i go check after i finish and i pick up trash so i just wanted to know if that's going to affect me you know well number one that means that the bar has given you permission to be there right yes all right both of them all right so in that case you're legal because you've had permission you've been given permission to be there okay right yes i'm sure that's john can verify that but as long as you have the permission which you have you can do that okay okay thank you and let me clarify that because i think where she's talking about is i think it's right here these two um or no maybe i'm not on the right hand side it's between two wig and each concho on the right hand side so um enough i'm in the right place i think maybe is this stain goes down here that's swahitos on the right and then stangos is further down on the left so that black if she gets permission from these two food service establishments she's depending on where she sets up she still may be in the in the 100 feet from from these the the width the right-of-way width of chad burn is 100 feet and so it would prevent like i said from being across the street if there happens to be a food service

[1:34:49] establishment across the street so the same thing would apply here if if both of these give permission but these three don't you still couldn't locate across the street from those unless she got permission unless she got permission but in this case if you wanted to locate in this area you'd basically have to get permission from five different establishments assuming they're all open at that time the other issue is the time she shows up because if it's after six o'clock or after 10 o'clock when the restaurant's closed let's say stan goes you're okay anyway that's right so europe basically excuse me john would you put your arrow again where she's talking about i think is i think it's these two here is that if i'm on the right yes and then across from there is stangos or caddy if you do an angle and then all right if she had permission of both of those it would be okay and if it was after 10 o'clock well and it's if she had permission of these two and were still on the hundred this property there would be a circle something like that so it there would still be some areas across the street right there are options and you're being allowed to do it now right your businesses are proving you being there right yeah and so again because the the right-of-way is 100 feet wide to answer lane's question um if we went to the 75 then that wouldn't prevent somebody across the street from a restaurant it would effectively prevent it on the same side of the street but not across the street those arrows back and put it on the 50. 50 would shrink it even more as you can see here

[1:36:52] like i said i think this would prevent it from at least parking right in front of the doorway of an establishment but would limit how many other businesses they would have to go to to get written permission for and still allows for competition do we have further public comment i could support this if it's a 50. uh i don't want to be rebellious or anything you had mentioned earlier that you felt like you didn't want to respond to something because of conflict of interest would you mind not voting on that one particular thing because of your interest in the restaurants downtown and and i'm not saying that you would know because no because this is bigger than the downtown area it's a bigger right but i'm saying we're talking about voting one by one by one that's how i understood it a while look at the motion on the floor okay that's what you suggested okay well okay come forward please good morning jesse noriega i'm with the local i just have one one question on the asking the bar or the restaurant uh that would affect a lot of us because uh they would have say a favoritism say suarito would say you can park here but i can't or you can park over here and you know i think if they're gonna let one they should let all of us i mean that's just you know if not it's gonna get to the issue like she says they already have a parking save for her and uh you know if i get there early enough you know it should be a city parking anybody should be able to go park there so what i'm trying to say if they're gonna give permission to one they should give permission to all all those food trucks it defeats the purpose actually i mean you're i mean you understand what i'm saying i do understand what you're saying i think that on our end though uh you have a business as being affected and uh that that if that individual that business

[1:38:55] itself is okay with that one i understand what you're saying but the way it's written at this point is specifically for that one uh one business or that food truck that would park there so i do understand what you're saying but again um that's something that if anything is the leeway that's given to that business owner that that restaurant you know so and then another issue the the three day vacate i don't under really understand that is it is it if i'm parked at a spot three days but i leave every day do i do i gotta vacate that area it would be if you just left it there three days was not vacating at all during that three day period so if you went home at night and came back the next day you wouldn't be there full-time all right does that make sense yes ma'am okay all right thank you it's just if you don't leave all right i understand though thanks thank you very much do i have further public comment i'd just like to offer the food trucks any opportunity if you guys want to come visit with me and go visit with any of the property owners the the restaurant owners i'd be more than happy to go to those meetings with you and help you facilitate whatever meetings y'all are needing with that we'll take a vote all in favor of the motions say any opposed i was trying to get a comment in there for the record i know that nay looks like it's opposing allowing it opening up for multiple areas that they can now operate but i cannot support less than uh or more than 100 feet sorry 50 feet all right we'll move on to item d public hearing and first reading of an ordinance deleting chapter 10 traffic control article 10.01 general provisions section 10.01.019 commercial vehicles prohibited and

[1:40:59] restricting the operation of certain commercial vehicles to designated truck routes within the city of san angelo patrick you're on good morning mayor council we're before you this morning with a proposal that deletes section 10.01.019 entitled commercial vehicles restricted with an ordinance that designates specific routes within the city of san angelo that specific trucks may travel upon in working with um from guidance office from city council and then working with city staff txdot pd and the courts we've come up excuse me sorry we've come up with an ordinance that specifies the types of vehicles that may travel upon these designated routes allowable exceptions and a list of specific requirements of the ordinance of availability and of accessibility what this ordinance does is it specifies specific roadways that trucks may travel upon it allows travel between commercial and developing areas within our city and it directs trucks to roadways that are designed to handle the particular load that those that these vehicles put on them what it also does is it it positively affects our community in in the quality of life for our residents what we've gotten feedback and what really drove this ordinance was feedback from residents and from citizens saying that there's larger vehicles larger commercial vehicles cutting through their neighborhoods and cutting through streets that were uh impacting their homes and and the way their their quality of life so it's what really started this conversation back in actually 2015 is when this was first presented so

[1:43:01] what this also does is it maximizes our street maintenance funding we all know that streets are a priority and we want to make sure that we're our streets are not deteriorating any faster than than they should be and by restricting specific vehicles on onto specific roadways we can help maximize those lower designed roadways that aren't designed for that specific traffic and maximize the money that we do put into those streets patrick yes ma'am there i am yes please mention 2015 would you restate what you said went into effect in 2015. nothing went into effect what we did in february 3rd of 2015 we saw guidance from city council at that point that's when the oil field was really really booming and we saw a lot of truck traffic and there was a great need at that time to develop an ordinance to restrict these vehicles from going down specific roadways and in specific areas of the city so we came to city council searching for guidance on how to develop this ordinance and what parameters and constraints they wanted to see put in place to to help do that yet not affect our economic uh value of the city so was something done at that time was an ordinance put in place no ma'am not so it didn't go any further than you requesting guidance no ma'am by the time that we we um had had all of our conversations the the the oil boom kind of re receded slightly but that's not to say that during this three year time period during that time that we still have not had those issues brought up just not as prevalent as they were and so looking forward as the economics of the oil continue to rise and we see that that could be coming forward and with the development of our the industrial facilities around san angelo we see a need in order to do this at this time what this also does this ordinance does is it allows for better and clearer

[1:45:03] enforcement currently in the ordinance that 10.01.019 it lists out 40 specific road segments that trucks can't travel upon and some of the feedback that we got from pd stated that to remember those 40 segments and patrol those 40 segments and enforce those 40 segments was very difficult for them so what this does is it gives them a much cleaner map to patrol in a much cleaner area that they can enforce upon [Music] one of the items that we got sought guidance on originally from council and we received on council was to restrict trucks that were only registered as as a 33 000 gvwr or cvwr or larger what this is is it's a large tractor trailer type trucks it's not your utility vehicles it's not your delivery vehicles it's those large tractor trailer i.e the sand trucks and those type of vehicles that really cause a detriment to our roadway and are difficult when they're traveling through those specific areas of town so on that map yes ma'am which one or on that diagram which one of those would not be allowed the class eight down here is the only restriction that would be allowed now keep in mind that there are some smaller vehicles your f-450s 550s and some of those type of vehicles that can be registered as a 33 000 gvwr but we'll get to it on the next slide as long as those those type of vehicles are not in tow of a trailer then they're allowed to travel on those streets as soon as they hook up to a trailer and they start transporting goods that's when they're restricted to these specific routes so we'll move forward and go through those exceptions if y'all are comfortable with this matter just one second clarification what do the sand trucks fit into class eight yes sir okay they do okay and so an 18-wheeler general conversation would be class eight that is correct yes lucy patrick i want to ask you in

[1:47:06] this ordinance would this also prevent these trucks from parking in a residential area let's say that the guide works and he parks this truck over there for over the weekend and then would this be prohibited in that this doesn't necessarily restrict ordinance that restricts that already that is correct yes okay so we just need to have the constituents report that report that enforcement yes okay that's a police department issue for the parking on the the city streets is if because i've had calls myself with those sand trucks parking while they are clearly staying at one of the hotels they're parking on residential streets around those hotels is is that a police department issue they need to notify the police department if that is in uh on a residential street if it's on the roadway yes the police would be able to enforce that if it's parking within the there's a certain portion of that private properties that code enforcement would have a better access access to enforce i mean if that's happening then does that mean that the hotels are wanting to limit the number of 18 wheelers on their parking lots just because it takes up two tanks well and they don't have that big on the residential is that the story i think that's the story um and i know billy there have been some in in your area too because i've had friends call me that live in your district so yeah there are issues with the sand trucks parking on residential streets so i have visited with chief carter on that as well mayor because it is enforced by the police department anything on the city street so that's something that he was going to address with his patrol officers as well mayor we do have good cooperation from pd when we encounter that situation patrick stated it correctly on the street is pd enforcement on off the street on the property in a residential area is a code enforcement item and we'd be glad to follow up on those just give us a call harry yes michael just for clarification that means when code enforcement is not

[1:49:09] working on a weekend and these trucks that's generally when they are come in on friday afternoon and leave early monday morning that's when when these trucks are are generally parked either on the street or in in these residence so police department is a person the police who i call uh matter of fact chief gets a text from me probably once a week and he sends his his officers out to take a look at it they're cited they have been very cooperative and uh if we have something on the weekend that is a code issue go to work it on the weekend and try to clear that issue continue oh go ahead billy so even if um whoever is driving an 18-wheeler if they park it at their house that's a violation of code ordinance is that correct i'm supposed to park those trucks in a residential area area yes ma'am on the street or off the street either way it's a problem it's just a question of who whose enforcement job it is are the questions from patrick on this specific subject otherwise we'll let him continue to present are you through presenting no i've got more [Laughter] um some of the details of this particular ordinance is those primary routes they are approved by city council so we'll go to a map here in a little bit too that'll kind of give you a detail of what those routes are and highlight those routes the they're primarily keeping them like i said those railroads that are designed for specific for these type of truck traffic those major minor arterials the map it the ordinance states that the map will be kept on by the director of planning and development but it will also be published on our website so that anyone coming into the city can access that and map out their their specific route ahead of time

[1:51:11] [Music] we've also in working with txdot and with the courts designated that the signs that the there must be a sign at all the major entry points of the city letting truck truck drivers know that there is an ordinance in place that that restricts them to specific routes like the hazardous route yes the hazardous routes to texting while driving those type of signs and that particular ordinance number will be listed on that sign so that they can easily refer back to the ordinance and get the details of it as i stated as i stated earlier some of the exceptions that council wanted to see back in 2015 is we wanted to make sure that we didn't restrict any vehicles that were operating under public safety the garbage collection any of our governmental trucks or be at the county or any public utilities such as aep atmos sudden link any of those utility vehicles that are serving a public service or working on a public utility it's also didn't restrict any deliveries or pickups within residential neighborhoods we all know the online ordering uh conversation has been brought up several times here recently um so those deliveries and pickups of ups and fedex and those a lot of times um furniture movers or mayflower trucks will be moving somebody and those trucks will be on on a residential street for unloading so that would be included in that that is correct and and the requirement on delivery and pickup is they go from a route directly to their destination point and directly back that and and as long as their destination is not listed on another route that they're able to transverse those streets and make it to their destination points trucks traveling on established detours obviously we have work zones that we need to work around so the ordinance allows for that accommodation and trucks leaving and returning to their customer store customary storage locations if their location is on a like we said trucks can now park in a

[1:53:15] residential area so if they need to get to that primary location they can do that but again that's going to be listed on their manifest and on their truck log so that's the the jest of the ordinance that's up before you today for approval if we want to take a quick look at the map though these are the specific routes that are proposed right now the ones in green highlighted there is one area that i would like to get y'all's guidance on that's shown on this map currently and that is on chadburn street as it goes through downtown [Music] this specific area here especially as we develop that downtown that chadburn street corridor uh we understand that there may be a uh we don't necessarily want those trucks going through that area so a couple of options um as far as a boundary on the south and a boundary to the north and there's a few options we have 29th street that we can limit it on the north 19th street or we can stop it there at the loop coming as those trucks are traveling from the north to the south so what about from the south side and then from the south side a couple of the natural boundary areas right now avenue l it is a natural truck route or a designated truck route if they were to make a left and continue on traveling avenue l there or we can bring them all the way up to in that general area to washington and allow washington to be a a route as well gives them a little deeper access yet doesn't enter into the downtown area isn't there a big moving company on washington is that or is that in there no it's it's on washington yeah so i mean that would be the i know one business that for sure has their warehouses there so that would again that that particular business would be covered under the rest the exceptions coming to and from a designated area they could access it off of 87 off of

[1:55:17] bryant nabe and cohen heim there so they do have access to it and again they're coming from their primary storage location so they wouldn't necessarily be restricted but if you wanted to allow them access down chadburn street you would need to extend that all the way to washington otherwise they would have to cut back on l to the cohenheimer bryant and then access it from the from the western side well washington i mean my gut says that it needs to be washington on there not l is wait a minute is l further south in washington yes yes so an l is that five-way corner is that the five-way corners so there's a lot of truck traffic there coming i mean there is a lot of traffic but that five way i believe is avenue in l is one more intersection i forgot harry i know you've had issues and complaints from people so that we still have sand trucks that come that come off of uh [Music] 87 south and come up and connect chad crystal highway and come across on south south chadburn and take l back out and yeah just as soon keep as much truck traffic off of chad burn any place doesn't make it south or north as we can well and and to that point we need to remember that chadburn street along that particular section is a state-owned highway until it hits avenue well once it hits avenue well and progresses and proceeds on that's when it becomes a city obligation then it would make sense to use avenue l because that's where the city versus the state part ways okay and then to the north comments tom

[1:57:20] on the north lucy comments i get a lot of complaints there's a truck driving school that uses lake view quite often and i mean you can sit in my office and watch seven eight trucks a day go through there they're going through lake view so i mean anything to curtail that would be great i understand the need to develop that and that's one of those trades and it's a group of people we need to see but as far as a chadron corridor you know what's your suggestion as far as a point where again there's there's three uh what i would call natural boundaries there um 29th street thereby uh that crosses by north bryant walmart 19th street or if we come all the way down to us 67 or the loop would be three of those main points that i would suggest for consideration some of them come from 2108 down 19th turn on chadwick and go all the way through downtown and pick up l to go out wherever they're going right and that would no longer be allowed thank you so patrick on the bright thruway why can they go the right through way to um houston heart and just go that way and not go down 29th because it's a lot of residences right there on both sides of and i know this is your area tom and i apologize but i travel that way all the time and they really tear up those roads there 19th is not as open as 29th street is so i'm thinking if you have a truck route they're on the bride throughway let them go the bright through way to um you know houston hark they could go east or they could go west and i'll make the same comment that i made about chadburn street earlier that little stretch of chat of 29th street is a city-owned street uh did i say 29th street is a city-owned

[1:59:25] street 19th street from 208 all the way to bryant is a state-owned highway so they're going to be able to to go from 208 to the bryant we can't restrict them off of the state-owned highway 19th on 19th yes ma'am but we can um keep them from going from chadburn to 19th street if we take that particular segment out of the desert the approved routes so you could make anything north of 19th restricted and allow 19th a state highway to be the the access point from the the route or the access point from 208 does that make sense tom it does we've got a lot of commercial development on the north end of chadron that i think this may affect but 19th appears to be a very safe cutoff for this thing a natural cut so is 19th state on all the way all the way across bright boulevard or just up to brian from bryant to highway 208 okay so it's heading to the east yes ma'am all right thanks okay do i have further comments from any council member before we have a motion put on the floor with no motion i mean with no yeah um harry would you make a motion please motion to approve is presented do i have a second second second by lucy do we have a what when i add y'all just clarify the boundary on chadburn street if y'all wished north and l on the south yes ma'am and thank you that's the motion right harry okay there's a motion in a second and now we're open for public comment do we have anyone in the audience who would like to make public comment on this item it looks like there's no public comments oh yes billy sorry may i ask one other question about sherwood way [Music] they would not be allowed to travel down

[2:01:28] sherwood sherwood way is a state-owned highway so they would be allowed to travel thank you that is now a vote all in favor say aye aye are there any opposed there's none opposed so this item passes 7-0 and i think i've been asked to take a break so a break is in order sorry russell 10 33 a.m i'm sorry i'm going to show off that tie everybody 10 minutes so we'll be back at 10 45 how's that so let's move forward on item e discussion and possible action regarding a policy amendment to small cell nodes in the right of way and russell i believe you're on beautiful time good morning yeah thank you for the thai comment all right before we get into our discussion i just wanted to remind everybody that you know these small cell nodes are basically uh small cell phone towers uh their their main intent is to uh boost the cell phone capabilities and high dense use areas and they're the infrastructure required for these cell phone companies to go from 4g to 5g capabilities state legislature dedicated these as a public utility and dictated that uh they are allowed in the right-of-way but this municipalities still have the capabilities to dictate things like uh placement appearance and numbers of nodes on the pole and themselves so if you'll recall back in the fall of 2017 we adopted an ordinance for it for these small cell nodes as well as a design manual of that stipulated the placement and appearance things like that so with that design manual

[2:03:32] we stipulated there's basically two types of installations one where they're placing an actual new pole in the right-of-way and one's where they're attaching to an existing pole the new poles are the both required the antenna the meters uh the radio pertinences all be placed on that on that pole themselves and ultimately reducing the number of utilities that we have or structures that we have placed in the right-of-way so to date engineering has received approximately or has received 13 applications uh three of which have been installed those three were a new cell phone or they put in an actual poll and they put you know all the facilities on those polls um and the problem that we've run into is uh you know with the other remaining 10 is they were trying to attach those to an existing pole in the right way and most of those polls that we have in our right of way are owned by american electric and power or ap and they didn't have an agreement in place to actually or to work with aep to actually attach to their poll so what has just come of late is that they've had that agreement or established that agreement and the ap is only allowing uh the antenna that they're uh proposing to put on the poll they but they're only allowing that to be on their existing poll so what you know and what they have to do is put the meter and the other pertinences off you know on a separate structure but also in the right of way they're directly adjacent to the pole so yes billy i have a question of russell so russell um back when we first started discussing this whose responsibility was it to check with aep to see if they would allow these to go on was it the telephone it was really the telephone i mean this is not our utility this is

[2:05:34] their utility so you know it was really up to them to to make sure that they had that in place prior to same thing with like uh you know they're trying to put these in text out right away they have to have an agreement with them as well to put that in place because the way the state legister legislature uh wrote it was that they were only allowed to go on the right way but not the state right away so without an agreement so they that's what they've been slowly working on or that's what these different cell phone providers have been working on is getting these different agreements in place so when you say the state versus us is that what you said so the state has the right away they have their own right-of-way like highway 87 and we have our own like chadburn street or uh you know our local streets um those those types of right-of-way so those those are governed by the different uh you know either the local or the state level you know depending on who owns and operates that right away billy did you have something further well of the 13 applications that we have received um new polls have been installed so this hasn't been an issue greg for the new poll installations this hasn't been an issue it's the only issue has been where it's they're trying to locate on an existing poll in the right of way on existing structures in the right way and you have a solution to that problem yes i'm getting here thank you people would just like if people were just letting go okay [Laughter] i think it's the tie you know it's a tie it draws away it's blinding here yes so all right so we approached the small cell you know we wanted to know what's this going to look like you know what what is that going to look like so this is a picture here kind of showing what you know if they're attaching to an existing pole you know this this is the antenna up there and this is the the box that they're proposing to add to the side of the pole um so currently you know this is an actual picture from our right away it's over on howard street between

[2:07:37] uh north and coleman this is an actual structure that's very similar to what they're proposing this structure is actually owned by sudden link and we do have these all across town currently so it's really not that much different than what we're currently allowing with sudden link communications wait a minute before it's a little node on a pole and now it's a permanent structure on the ground right so so what our original design is similar so so this picture here is a picture provided by the small cell companies so yeah this is this is the antenna up here and this is what they're proposing to move off to the side what and our current ordinance and design manual requires to be on the pull itself now so based on aep's agreement that they have they're not allowed to put these structures on the pole because it's largely in part to when you know if ap needs to replace a pole or somebody runs into a pole things like that when they're you know if they have to go in there and replace that pole they don't want to have to you know they don't want to have they want to have as few obstructions on that existing poles my that's my understanding from aep so this when i say similar this is what's similar to what's in our right-of-way now does that answer your question not similar but it is what it is right it's i mean the main intent with the design manual and the current ordinance was to minimize the number of structures in our right-of-way um you know but for these to actually come into our into our right-of-way we we had to figure out something so what i'm actually proposing today is that we allow these separate structures to be in the right of way but to be on the on the very edge of the right-of-way or to only allow them on the very edge of the right-of-way and only for installations where they're trying to connect or install their antenna to an existing pole you know so if they were bringing in a new pole

[2:09:38] you know they would still have to put everything on their new pole they'd have to put their meter the antennas and any other nodes that they would have they would still have to be you know we'd leave that in place but to be a little more flexible we're you know that's what we're recommending to change this to is only for existing pole attachments because the fcc usually regulates um cell towers and determines whether they're right or wrong in terms of being able to put one up but now this is an fcc so all of a sudden the rules and regulations are within the city ordinance capabilities well it's also it's regulated primarily by the state but the state has carved out portions of this that we can regulate and these kind of things are within our ability to regulate and the fcc is actually looking at taking over this area of regulation as well that's why i asked the question because i think that they are and so um any decision that we make would it be grandfathered in so that if the fcc takes it over that this would still be acceptable um that's unlikely but we would just have to see what they decide they want to pass if they pass anything right and so what we do have in our existing ordinance as well as you know placement you know harry had asked me earlier in an earlier conversation you know for in the historic downtown area obviously we're trying to minimize the amount of overhead electric and other overhead utilities in that area so the way we have our ordinance and our design manufacturing now is they can't locate in that area without a special consideration from council as well as parks and other city-owned facilities so for example when we're doing a streetscape program on chadburn we don't need to worry about one of these things showing up in the middle of the streetscape correct project right

[2:11:41] correct now unless i mean they do have some other examples of where where they've attached these to uh like a historic pole and made it you know incorporated into the light pole in that instance i don't have any examples of that today but um i have seen some examples of that you know this what i had shown you today is kind of the bare bones of what what they're looking for but i mean they do have other capabilities to you know to meld it into the area so russell um go back to the picture on howard street please so there you said that's a sudden link yes this structure right here is a sudden link structure would there be occasion where there would be a sudden link structure as well as the small cell structure that is a possibility um because that's going to be an awful lot in an area that's pretty compressed sure so what choices do we have for something like that well what we do stipulate in the design manual now is that they can't be you know they have to be spread out from cell node you know or cell facilities to sell facility well i guess what we could do is and that's why i wanted to bring this as a discussion is we could add to the language in the design manual to stipulate you know if there's any other pertinences like this that we could you know add additional setback requirements so and do you have a picture of one of the new towers that's independent standing i don't i apologize is there more presentation that's it okay so do i have other questions comments um on this issue yes tommy so does this as you've proposed it does it to billy's point does it give you some flexibility if some things arise that might not have

[2:13:45] been specifically addressed here does it is do you have enough so you we don't have to keep going back and forth on this correct that was the intent with this is to make it a little more flexible so with that do i have a motion so move and a second second do i have public comment with nobody coming forward on public comment we'll take a vote all in favor say aye opposed and unopposed passes passes 7-0 we are now actually going to move ahead on the agenda and we're going to do item j and item j is the first public hearing and introduction of an ordinance amending the budget for the fiscal year beginning october 1 2018 and ending 30 2019 for capital items and grants ma'am good morning mayor good morning council mr valenzuela i have a quick budget amendment here for you this morning uh the first two are going to be for police department grants um they've been awarded some grants for the justice assistance grant the revenue amount would be 24 619 and this will go for paying for safety supplies um namely tasers and then they will be sharing a portion of that grant award with the tom green county the second grant is for bulletproof vests and the amount of twelve thousand three hundred and ten dollars and then moving on to our final budget amendment this one is for the engineering design phase for the next phase of the hickory water supply project and this money would be drawing down all of their fund balance in the original hickory uh debt fund and so they'll be using about 580 000 out of fund balance and what uh whatever interest revenue they have today so they're going to use that revenue source what would be the what the dollar balance after this comes out i believe that's the next item on your

[2:15:46] agenda and allison will discuss that more thoroughly but she could probably come forward now if you want yeah that would be good allison yeah um so we'll be drawing 580 869 dollars out of fund balance and interest earned of today thousand six hundred fifty dollars uh this will provide two point three six seven nine nine zero um or two point three million dollars of worth of usable funds in the hickory fund from the original 120 million dollar loan okay thank you with that that's all of the budget amendments i have for you this morning so you'll have a motion to accept the budget amendments all in favor a public comment no public comment we'll take a vote all in favor say aye with none opposed motion passes 7-0 we're now going to move into item k update on preliminary design phase and consideration of awarding task order 2 under rfq wu-04-19 engineering services for water system improvements to the hickory ground water supply development to in protect which is hibs and todd incorporated in the amount of three million one hundred seventeen thousand four hundred fifty and authorizing the city manager to execute any related documents allison good morning mayor council um in march of 2018 uh the council authorized a preliminary engineering uh report or task order one to improtect hibs and todd uh eht with uh to continue the development of the hickory we've all been discussing um how we want to see the full uh annual allocation or production from the hickory uh be able to pump and treat that water and so what we're doing is i'll be introducing scott hibbs to give the presentation he'll briefly go over the results of the preliminary engineering study and the next steps forward the last time we met at the city

[2:17:49] council chambers we also awarded three rfqs and rfps to progress this project with the texas water development board funding and we'll also be discussing um those items so with that i'll introduce scott hibbs and let him go through his presentation and i'll finish it up in the end thank you allison mayor council daniel my name is scott hibbs with eht out of abilene it's always a privilege to be down here and give the council an update on water supply with the recent rains and things it's it's one of those forgotten items but the dry weather will be back and so we're making preparations now to handle those types of issues as they come up again i'm going to discuss just briefly a little bit of the background of the hickory so that the council is fully apprised of where you've been and where we're heading the phase ii objectives which as alison said we're trying now to take what you did in phase one with the hickory and complete the project so that you can maximize the amount of groundwater that you can get from that resource i will go over with you the results of the preliminary engineering as alison said i was before you back at this time last year as we started that adventure and those results are now in and that's what really has given us the path forward for what we're recommending with phase two we'll um also go through the preliminary costs and give you an idea of what the schedule looks like and then allison will be back up here with the staff recommendation so just as a way of reminder to the council and others that are interested the folks that are sitting where you're sitting right now back in the 1970s made a very important decision to acquire rights for groundwater down in mcculloch county 60 some odd miles away from san angelo and as you are well aware during this

[2:19:51] last drought that we had it was a uh a very wise decision that they made back in that time and something that that sets you guys up for the ability to make it through this last drought back in 2011 when things were starting to get dry i think 2011 is one of the driest years that we've ever had on record in in west texas the council authorized phase one of the project phase one consisted as you see on the screen of 15 groundwater wells that were constructed in the hickory and the associated piping to connect those wells and then to transport that water 60 miles into the city of san angelo you all are very well aware that the hickory while it's a great source of water has a little issue with radionuclides which have to be removed from the water to make it safe to drink for the public consumption so that project also included a groundwater treatment plant that was capable of treating eight million gallons a day under that phase one so that phase one project sets you up to use about three-fourths of the water that was available in the hickory one of the key things that we've looked at in the preliminary engineering that i'm presenting to you now is the reliability of that supply because right now there's a lot of issues with downtime with the various wells with the transmission system and those types of things so as we look at future use of this source and trying to make sure that during the drought situations when you're really going to be calling on this supply to be reliable day in and day out you're going to hear me use that term several times during the presentation that one of the things that we're focusing on is to make sure that that source is reliable for the for the city so the objectives of phase two phase one has been operational since 2014 early 2015 is to increase the capacity to your maximum

[2:21:53] use out of the hickory of 12 000 acre feet a year and as i said it's to increase the reliability so that you have the the comfort level and staff has the comfort level that during those critical times you're able to bring that water into town and we would anticipate right now the schedule shows a completion date of the end of 2021 nothing we do in the municipal world happens quickly they all take time the preliminary engineering results as alison mentioned you guys contracted with us back in march of last year we have two teaming partners with us that are uh very integral to what we do wsp that used to be gaiden they're the the groundwater uh hydrogeologist experts that helped develop the initial welfield and are certainly playing a key role in the work that we're doing now and we also have parkhill smith and cooper on our team they're focused on transmission and the collection of the of the well water as alison mentioned and you just went through some budget amendments the uh initial work that we did over this last year was actually funded out of the excess funds that you had in the original phase one project that's where that came from and we issued the the draft what we call the basis of design report what that really is is the preliminary engineering report with our findings back in november and we've been working with staff to kind of refine our recommendations and make sure we had a good path forward which is what we're bringing to you guys today so what do those results look like one of the things that we had wsp look at was updating the the modeling of what that aquifer will produce again with the goal of being a sustainable and a reliable source now that you've got four years of operating data we have a much better picture of what that groundwater response will look like and they are

[2:23:55] much they're in a better position now with the wells that we're going to drill in this phase than they were in the first phase to anticipate how that aquifer will respond so we're recommending that of the eight additional well sites that the city had set aside that we will construct five new wells in this phase why would we not do the whole eight oh that's a great question mayor um cost very expensive and we felt that with the five wells we're going to have as you can see a 25 25 downtime so it it gives us the reliability at five wells uh that we feel that you're going to be well positioned i will tell you though that uh since you're in the process of dealing with that property we are going to go ahead and make sure the city has access to the other three well sites so that if there's a reason to develop those wells in the future you're not going to have to be dealing with another landowner or whatever the case may be you will have that ability to go out and basically be marked so that because we understand that we have chosen not to put that ranch up for sale because until we develop these new wells and so what we're seeing is we'll develop the five new wells mark the three additional and have the ability to go ahead and put them ranch if you will up first cell once these wells are done yes ma'am that's a great way of looking at it and then at any time in the future should you need to develop those other three wells even if the ranch has transitioned to a new owner you still own those well sites and the easements needed to get the pipelines to them so we're going to position it for that yeah yes billy question please scott um you said going from nine um thousand acre feet to the full twelve thousand will we get to that with just the five wells it won't be all eight no we we can do that with the five wells and still have as i mentioned the

[2:25:58] reliability that we need for about 25 of the wells to be down for any given reason so it'll provide us the build-out capacity plus the ability to make sure that during those critical droughts we can still supply water 12 000 acre feet yes ma'am okay thank you uh well production um collection and transmission not not a lot of stuff is going to change here if you and i'm going to show you a picture in a minute the the big key of this is just plumbing up the new wells you've got to take those five new sites and get that into the system we are going to at the booster pump station at a sixth pump again focusing on reliability making sure that you can get that 12 000 acre feet a year into town and use it during the critical drought and we're spending some time and effort on some uh upgrades to the scada system that's the fancy way of saying that's how the you communicate here with the wells out there they're remote there's nobody out there on a routine basis so you've got to have some way to communicate and the reliability of that system has been challenging particularly during storm events and we believe that there are some ways to to make a system that is a little bit more robust that will help again ensure that during those critical times you can bring that water in town so this is a map that ought to help you just a little bit get oriented the blue dots there's a lot of information on this map but anything that you see in blue basically is existing the pipelines in the solid blue lines the wells that are outlined in blue with the white white center you see the wells outlined in red those are the proposed five new well sites and then you see the three that are outlined in green those are the three sites that will not be developed right now but we'll certainly have the land and the easements and everything that we

[2:28:00] need in order for you to be able to to access them even with those three additional it doesn't give us more than the twelve thousand that's correct you're you're limited to the 12 000. no matter how many wells doesn't matter how many wells why would we even invest the money to do those three wells for additional reliability or we we don't think that you're going to need to that that's a great question we do not believe that you're going to need to uh develop those but in the if you can picture this you're you're basically poking straws into this aquifer and trying to figure out how that water is going to move certainly after four years of pumping out of that aquifer we have a much better feel for it but just to provide the ability for the city if we find that that some of the wells don't produce as much water or whatever happens in the future it just gives you a little bit of comfort that you have three other potential sites those three sites together would probably be another two million gallons a day so it's a significant increase that you could you could drill if you needed them it's just good good insurance policy groundwater treatment we're going to expand the treatment plant to again provide that reliability that you can you've got to get the water into town that's step number one but you've got to take the radionuclides out step number two before you give it to the customers and we're going to look and you're going to see this in a minute at residuals management that's a fancy way to say there are things that we take out of the groundwater solids that come out during the treatment process that right now we send to the wastewater plant it may be more advantageous long-term when we're looking at the other water supply options with the conchal river and those types of things to actually handle those residuals where they are generated and that's up at the treatment plant site so

[2:30:04] i'll discuss that a little bit more when we look at budget the good news is your phase one project anticipated and was built with this in mind so in effect this slide shows you a real simplistic look where we're using the existing building there's not a building expansion that you need to do with this everything was laid out for these pieces of equipment to be incorporated into the system there are a few minor modifications that we will make that the staff has come up with based on their operating history but the council under phase one and that project was very uh proactive in making sure that you were set up for this expansion without having to do major building additions the other thing that we found one of the items in the preliminary work was talking with staff about the existing surface water plant so you have the groundwater plant that treats the water that comes from the hickory you have the surface water plant that treats ivy and your other surface water supplies all of the the water when it's treated goes into what into a ground storage tank we call it a clear well at a plant but it's basically a storage tank and that's the tank that the water resides in before it is pumped and used by the citizens the existing clearwell at the water treatment plant was built back in 1947 and staff is being challenged today because of age the the condition of the concrete the tank does not uh generally meet the current regulatory requirements and it's a real challenge for staff to maintain compliance with disinfection byproducts and things that we have if it doesn't meet regulatory requirements tell me what that means in terms of a pressure point no no pressure issues

[2:32:06] it's just a matter of hatches and vents and those types of things but i mean if it's regulatory whatever the terminology was you said does that mean the the regs the people who watch us make sure we're doing everything right that they're going to force something on us sooner than we're re later and sooner than we're prepared no i i think we're prepared with this project to recommend that we replace that existing clearwell with two new structures to provide staff flexibility in how they manage the water before it goes out into the distribution system and that was one of the findings during the preliminary engineering report as we evaluated the other components of the system this was something that is going to have to be addressed sooner rather than later so adding it to this project just makes sense good question so what does that look like um this map is a little bit busy but right there is that existing concrete structure that was built back in 1947 that we intend to replace and you can see these two circular tanks would replace that one [Music] one tank and by using two tanks it would be plumbed so that you could keep them both in service you can take one out of service it just provides staff with some additional flexibility on how they manage their their water resources before it goes to town and keep in mind you see this is the groundwater treatment plant where i just place that arrow your surface water treatment plant is that other huge complex but it doesn't matter how the water is treated it all ends up in that in that clear well in that tank before it goes to town so it's a pretty it's a critical component of your system that is you uh you reached the end of its useful service life and this is a good opportunity to address it i don't know how to get the

[2:34:10] arrows to go away they did they disappeared so what what does this look like um from a financing standpoint the the phase two expansion uh we're estimating somewhere close to 43 million dollars to complete that work uh clearwell replacement that i just discussed those two new clearwells just a little bit north of 9 million for a subtotal of 52. i put the residuals handling separate we're not quite ready to make a final recommendation to council on that we've got some additional work we're doing we may have some rather creative ways to avoid uh spending this kind of money and uh as we move forward i will have a a recommendation to you when we get to the water development board funding component where we actually file applications so i left that so you mean we might not need to do it now but it would be down the road or we might not need to do it great question mayor i both i'm looking at two options my first option is can we get can we find a way to handle this residual and not needed and and there are some things that that we might be able to do i just don't have enough data to to be able to make that final determination the second option is that it might be that we can postpone this and make it a component of the concho water supply project once that is initiated certainly when you're looking at spending money if you don't need to spend it today if there's not an overriding reason to do it let's look at putting it into a future project if and when it's needed or quite frankly we're looking at a couple of options where we may be able to handle that residual at the treatment plant site within the expansion of the plant and not need a separate structure if you will to do that so we'll we'll have more for you

[2:36:14] so this is a little bit busy but it's just kind of to to show you the schedule that we're on the key point that i wanted to point out are council application resolutions you guys have been through the water development board process before we actually submitted what we call the pif which is just a a form to get the project in the system the water development board will come to the city and say we would like you to file a formal application that's the state and that's the state yes ma'am at that point your bond council and your financial advisor will be up here to make a presentation on that there will be a series of resolutions that the council will be asked to adopt and to pass and that starts the process i would anticipate that funds are not closed until probably january of next year that's a reasonable guess we'll we'll see how fast the process can go would we close on the funds before we have the permits uh no we will be doing our work while that financing is going on in the background which is why i'm here today so we would then break the project up into a number of contracts a well driller does not build water plants and the guy that builds the water plant doesn't build clear wells so you you really have to mix and match the right contractors with the right projects that's also a much more cost effective way for the city to go you could put that all under one umbrella but if they're not doing the work they're just going to charge you a markup on whomever they select to do it so i think it's going to be our recommendation that we have multiple contracts to get the project accomplished and this final slide shows the uh i just need to know where to thank you alison the final slide shows that the groundwater treatment plant actually has the longest construction time of anything that we're

[2:38:16] doing and that's why i have a projected online day online date for it in the end of 2021. you'll notice the clearwells have a little bit of an accelerated schedule i think that that's something that the city needs to get done and we'll we'll move that along as quickly as possible it does not impact the well field it doesn't impact the lines it doesn't impact the groundwater treatment plant so we can move it along a little bit quicker we will obviously be back before this group again probably late this year looking at how we move into construction with our recommendations for that we may consider an alternative delivery method with construction management at risk potentially competitive sealed proposals i think some of the work we're going to recommend like the wells that may be just traditional bid and so we'll kind of sort through that we'll work with staff to come up with our recommendations on how we proceed and look forward to that conversation in the future so that's phase two in a whirlwind i'd be happy to answer any questions before allison comes back and now this is an update are we needing to vote on anything today yes she has a recommendation following my presentation all right allison well before oh wait yes go ahead billy um scott could you put up the um expense slide that you had there so the 52 million 196. when you say that um a financial planner somebody is going to come talk to us is that the figure they will be talking to us about that's a great question i i don't know it's either the 52 or it's the 65. and i will have that recommendation for you before they come talk to you i'm just not quite there yet i'm very regardless of whether it's 52 or 65 we're asking there will be a proposal to

[2:40:20] us in terms of how we're going to finance the 52 million that's correct and the the city as alison mentioned at your last council meeting you selected a bond council and a financial advisor and those will be the entities or there'll be people from those companies that come and present that to you um and i guess i have another question and somebody can tell me if this is not the right time to ask this question but when we talk about the concha water project i know that's separate from this but would we be trying to do those two things that simultaneously that's another really good question council probably remembers that they have authorized the initial work on the concho being permitting and we would anticipate that the permitting component of that project will likely take three four or five years it's a lengthy process so this job this project will be over and done before you're in a position to to consider moving forward with that project at all the project would be done but you would have overlapping debt yes if you chose to proceed right away with that project then you would have another debt issuance that you would be looking at did you or allison i'm not sure which one is the right one um just briefly review me on the conscious water project we can't do that we can't go that way sorry that was easy one second michael dane did you have a comment you wanted to make scott when we did the last big project we saved millions of dollars by going through by qualifying the project for the state funding do you anticipate any trouble getting qualified for that state funding with this project uh mike no no problem at all matter of fact the the water development board is well aware of this we've been in contact with them on a very routine basis um and and their interest rates for for

[2:42:24] those of you that deal in that that world it'll it'll be a significant savings um you'll be well when you say that you're still talking about the the base amount the principal amount now the issues the the interest rate but the principal dollar amount doesn't change principal dollar amount does not change but the lower interest rates that are offered through the water development board make a substantial i like going to a bank and asking for it yes ma'am and so with that said also the issue is i know the state house funds that that are out there that many people apply for for grants or whatever is there any grant opportunities as we approve this and move forward on it applications for grants and support from other financial areas that's always a great question the the general answer for a city san angelo size is no we're under a hundred thousand does that qualify then we haven't taken a census yet just reminding you that would be conflicting wouldn't it trying to stay below for one reason indeed just asking the questions no ma'am that probably i'm fixing to be a county district it likely would not make a lot of difference but it's a great question tom has a question please scott i know it's on the clear well it's the same size your replacement wells are the exact same size as what you've got so would we tell me why we don't upgrade that for or do we not even need to that's a a great question to ask 5 million gallons is more than adequate for the production capacity of your facility so uh it is if you were to ask me independently what size would you need that would have been the number that i would give have given you so there's no real advantage in in upsizing in today's environment where we're dealing with water quality

[2:44:27] issues that relates to water age so the old adage of the more storage the better really doesn't apply today like it used to so you try to balance the amount of storage that you need for that reliability that we talked about but also being very aware that you have regulatory water quality issues to meet on a consistent basis thank you do i have further questions from council before i ask allison to come back up here i jumped the gun my apologies any further questions thank you mayor so following scott's presentation what we're asking for we are asking for a vote and or authority to proceed with task order two which is the design of all those components that were summarized in the preliminary engineering report the design of those five additional wells the bid document specifications preparation for us to once we receive the loan from texas water development board that we're ready to proceed with that project and i want to kind of go over real quick how we are planning on funding this 3.1 million dollars so the item right before us was a budget amendment we do need a second reading of a budget amendment to proceed with this proposed funding but what it took was the five hundred and eighty thousand dollars out of fund balance an additional fifty six hundred dollars worth of interest earned to date which allows uh 2.367 million dollars to be spent of the remaining 120 million dollars so this 2.3 2.4 million dollars is the final amount remaining from the 120 million dollar loan um with that leaves a 749 460 dollar difference between that 3.1 and what we have available in the original phase one we are proposing that that be paid for by water capital funds and when we go for the loan from texas

[2:46:31] water development board we can seek reimbursement at that time and so that 749 000 would be relinquished back into the water capital fund and can be spent back along with the bell street college hills those type of things when you ask to have it reimbursed is it a 100 percent that they would approve it being reimbursed or we're going to hope that they reimburse us i was about to say they did reimburse they did a similar deal with the original 120 million dollar loan i think it was don't quote me on the exact numbers but it was in millions that they reimbursed the city for the pre-work of that texas water development board loan okay do we have questions for allison tom tommy harry no lucy lane and billy then with no questions do i have a motion to approve is presented second and a second do i have public comment steve hampton we have before us a continuation of spending to obtain water and i know that water has been one of your priorities a high priority you've already spent set aside 150 million to do the the other um processing uh part and run it back into the river and uh no we haven't spent that money sorry you haven't spent it no you said you've already spent agreed to spend it's in place and you're and you're you're getting bonds to support it are we not we are not at this point the project is in fact a discussed project an approved project john holt no it is not on hold but we have not gone out for the financing of that

[2:48:33] monies yet and we will we're discussing this project so you can't bring up the concho river water project at this point on this conversation i'm um my point is that you're spending a lot of money and and you're in money is involved in this and you're uh you uh which is more insidious we have a our lakes are high at this time because of a christian people who have uh uh prayed into a merciful god and we have uh water levels real high and and now we're going after water which is not needed uh it seems to me that the depth i say that it's not needed today mary you keep interrupting me would you i apologize i just don't want to get i don't want you to get too far down the road and i forget what comments that you're making that are not correct so i'm going to correct you along the way so we understand and the public understands what's true and what's not true you're you're correcting me because you're on a very uh tedious point here uh you're spending a lot of money money that has like the school systems have been voted down for worthy causes also for the kids and now uh and now you're the city is taking the school's place and spending a lot of money which is more insidious the debt or or the lack of water anna please come forward good morning mayor council i just have a couple of questions um i have property that we have wells on and and the pumps replaced routinely because of sand i don't know about how deep these wells are and i've not heard any comment about the recharge zone for the hickory uh are we going if we're in a drought then the

[2:50:35] levels of the aquifer i'm sure will be lower uh so where is the recharge zone for the hickory aquifer and how deep are the wells going to be scott maybe you or allison i'm not sure who could answer that um the wills that uh the hickory range anywhere from about 2500 to 3 000. i think that'll be the same case with these additional five and also the kind of the part that the modeling that scott mentioned at the beginning how we refine that model and those type of things it's taken into account our current production recharge capabilities um and we have better modeled that aquifer with that data so i don't know if that answered our question jenna does that answer your question come to the microphone there i'll try to to answer the question was what area recharges the hickory and that i i don't know i'd have to ask wsp for that information but the 12 000 acre feet that we're talking about that has been permitted to the to the city of san angelo takes into account uh the the hydrogeology of the area and the recharge and the ability for that aquifer to recharge and our groundwater experts tell us that that uh we're actually more hamstrung by the permit that we have than the than the capability of the aquifer actually giving up water so there's there's more water than we're actually permitted to be able to uh to take out so if one would rephrase that and say the following what percent is the 12 million gallons gallons that we have relative to how much water is in the aquifer good question mayor i don't know i'd have to get wsp to to answer that but just look at it from the standpoint of this this is an aquifer that has the ability to produce that 12 000

[2:52:39] under drought conditions year in and year out yes billy scott before you um and maybe this is an allison question but um back in 1972 i think you put up are the 70s you put up on one of your slides when the council sitting here on this side of the desk made the decision to purchase the ford ranch for future water use that's been quite a number of years ago it wasn't purchased then they negotiated the water rights right it was purchased last year so but the point i guess i'm making yes we're looking at spending a lot of money but we as citizens in this town cannot survive without water and we have to i think make some decisions today like were made back in the 70s about what we will do if we run into another situation like 2011 where we were in a drought or even last year when we had what less than a year's supply of of water so you know i think that when we look at making these decisions and believe me your numbers scott are staggering and it you know certainly creates a lot of concern but um i think at this point the city would you know not be making a wise decision not to look at preparing for the future in the event and i know we can do what-ifs all day long you know what if it rains because you know certainly we would rather subsist on good rains but we can't count on that in west texas so anyway i guess i'm just making i'm rambling now but i think it's really important that we look for the future of our water for our citizens and for san angelo and especially as we continue to to grow and have all that economic development that the mayor and harry thomas keeps saying

[2:54:42] we're going to get you know we're going to have to have some water to fund that so you know i just think it's wise for us to to look at these staggering numbers and make some decisions today thank you we know that water is yes ma'am may i add to that that um you know there is a hickory underground water conservation district and allison and i attend those meetings and we closely monitor the way that they're managing the hickory to make sure that the city of san angelo's rights in the hickory are fully protected and that's something that we continue to look forward to doing in the near future as well to make sure that as we expand the well the water that we believe we own there is available to us i believe that as a council we believe the responsibility is ours to make sure that we have water for the future and water is not something that if you have a drought today you can go find for tomorrow so if we're not making the right decisions and investing in water for the future then we're not actually protecting the city of san angelo because we cannot exist without a water supply and in 2050 if we don't have water we don't have a city so this is considered a long-term investment for the safety and security of the citizens who choose to live out here in san angelo harry you had a comment you have a comment not a question and and billy brought this to mind three years ago when i ran for city council one of the things i ran on was water supply my granddaughters are six and ten right now and i wanted to ensure that there was water supply for their grandchildren so i looked 50 years out i think that we're on the path of having this this particular project and in the other projects to get us 70 years out to 20 70 50 years from now i think this is probably the wisest decision that this particular council has made since i've been up here so protecting water and investing in projects that will keep water out there for our children our grandchildren and and their grandchildren i think is the

[2:56:46] most important thing that we've done so far it is a lot of money and no one likes to have to borrow money to pay for it but i will say the following if you don't have money there's no amount of money you'll be spending or be willing to spend to find it and it's not easy to find pockets of water out there so it is a big number it's a scary number but you know what would be the worst case scenario is no water please ginger more san angelo my question is i'm a little confused on selling the ford ranch if we can sell it later on and and keep the rights for the three wells and the underground water why cannot we sell it now i guess that's my question good question and and get the money to help fund some of this thank you two parts of the ranch as you uh are aware are for sale the main part that has i can go back to a map we want to pursue the construction of the five additional wells while we own the property but the three additional rails really are a an emergency or unforeseen circumstances much later in the future it's not something that we truly believe that we need to pump our permitted capacity today her question is the fine if we know where those five wells are going to be and we might not need to drill the other three wells but we know where they're going to be why do we wait until the wells are drilled in the five wells until we put the ranch up for sale that's the question i think that we could probably and teresa can correct me if i'm wrong put the ranch up for sale that the wells

[2:58:49] themselves don't have to be complete but the determination of where those wells were going to be located was key before putting the ranch up for sale um so once we get more through the design process of that i think that we can start looking at marketing the entire ranch it doesn't mean that the wells himself have to be completely drilled but there probably is some downside of marketing ranch while it has a bunch of machinery and equipment on it too so we actually have a meeting in the near future we are continually talking and discussing the options with selling the ranch with our broker and we're going to have a meeting in the near future i think in the next couple of weeks to further discuss that and i think it is an issue not so much of whether we can sell it or should sell it during construction but what the value of the property will be during that time because when we construct these wells we make a mess okay thank you do i have uh further public comment please come forward it's been a long day waiting to get to this point y'all chuckle a little bit but i do thank the council for taking my question here thank you uh city manager thank you gentlemen here tomorrow clerk uh i did a little experiment somewhere um my name is gary gary goetz local residents i did a little research once with a water softener and the reverse osmosis unit that i had at my home bought locally at a established business reliable business and i was wondering how many gallons it would take to make a gallon of water out of that unit now that unit may have been ill-equipped for what i was doing but i put some measuring cups on one side and one on the other and at best i remember it was about 22 gallons lost for one gallon gain is that anything to be considered or did my question also another question did we just look into this radon thing or the contaminants or did were we hooked into this thing or this 40 million ranch with the water rights i'm all for wanting water in this city

[3:00:52] that it's just something that's gonna make us grow and prosper and i think we're doing a real good job and i think i'm thankful for harry three years ago wanting to have a established water substance for his children and i also want that for my friends and neighbors uh the question i guess is what i'm asking is what's the ratio there what do we get for the for the buck i mean i know it's going down the wastewater's going down the stream and we're going to pump it back i guess to water our parks or in fact drink this water but uh it's probably not lost did we on this 40 million dollar deal we just luck into the radon or was anybody else notified that it had raised a gift was purchased it was a gift was purchased gift with person okay well i'm just that's a joke i'm sorry but uh i'm just thinking bang for the buck and i and i won't always get out of a gallon of water or however many gallons it takes but uh is that a silly question today nice silly question and someone will come forward and answer that question for you thank you very much i'll start with the ro uh point that he was making uh so when the council was looking at the groundwater treatment facility uh back in 2011 2012 in that design they could had the option of doing an ro treatment facility or an ion exchange facility um i don't remember the exact numbers but the ro treatment did yield i'm gonna say 90 uh water uh for every 100 put in so a 10 waste uh the ion exchange is different and i think that's one of the reasons the council chose that it's got approximately a 99 recovery with a 1 loss so the treatment process that we have in place and that will continue to expand upon doesn't have that loss like an ro unit would and the hickory is well known for radionuclides um i can't speak for what they knew in the 70s when they purchased those water rights but um it it's nothing new for the hickory aquifer to have

[3:02:53] or to know about these constituents and that's not unique to just that water supply there are many other water supplies that would have that same kind of right so uh city of brady also treats or will be treating for radionuclides but they are aware of the situation with the hickory so we're not the only ones with this concern gary did that answer your questions okay thank you steve come forward yes ma'am thank you steve hampton i have another question uh uh one that was kind of brought up is is there any seismic activity in this in this uh uh uh water area [Music] and i understand that it is not it's more like shale oil rather than carlsbad cavern full of water uh if that could be explained i'd appreciate it okay who would like to address that issue or question we were flipping a coin to see who was who's going to not he wants to try this on no no seismic activity that that we're aware of that would influence this and this particular um underground structure is more cavernous than um than than shale it is we're we're extending holes down into those caverns and that's part of the challenge are we hitting a good part of the cavern or not so the water actually does move through through a large area of it pretty freely there are some areas that are more restricted and that's the challenge with with the wells but it it's a it's a good aquifer to be developing okay any additional comments no one's coming forward so we will take a vote all in favor say aye aye

[3:04:57] are there any opposed motion passes seven zero we will now go back to on f which is the presentation on the last five years of economic development and the presentation will be made by guy andrews thank you good morning mayor council mr valenzuela i'm sure that every one of us has been involved in a conversation at some time where statement was made why are you giving away millions of dollars to attract new businesses what are you doing for our local businesses and what else is economic development sales tax money being spent on so i thought i'd go back in time a little bit to answer some of those questions first of all there's no such thing as free money all of the incentives that we pay out in economic development are earned incentives and those are done through partnerships between cosa dc and businesses and are shaped with a legal agreement incentives are not paid until certain conditions outlined in the agreement are made for example if somebody says i'm going to invest two and a half million dollars capital investment we don't provide incentives until that's done or if they say we're going to add so many employees we don't provide incentives until that is done so the incentives are earned all of the agreements that we enter into are approved by both the coast of dc board of directors and then they have to be ratified by our city council they're also scrutinized by our legal department and after they're implemented we're subject to texas ethics commissions just as a bit of general information san angelo has a type b economic development

[3:06:59] corporation which we believe is the very best type that you can have define the difference between type b and type a in a type a economic development organization you can only use that money to for recruitment of new manufacturing industrial type businesses in the type b organization we can provide that same type of incentives for those types of projects but it also allows us to do community development type projects things that we often call quality of life and infrastructure type developments this gives us flexibility to undertake projects whenever opportunities arise so looking back over the last five years in terms of what we've done we do look out for established businesses through our business retention expansion program we often refer to that as the brep program during the past five years we've created 56 jobs in that the capital investment as a result of that of our investment in partnership with our local businesses has been a little over 3 million dollars our direct increase in taxable property values as over two and a half million dollars average income of those new jobs created under that program is about 54 852 the incentives have been paid out over that five-year period of time have been about 587 822 now just one other thing i wanted to explain is whenever uh we i said that incentives are earned sometimes a company that comes in and we make an agreement with does not earn those incentives and so while they had the opportunity to earn some of those incentives for different reasons and not meeting the agreements with the partnership they did

[3:09:02] not earn those agreements in terms of our five-year community development projects the direct jobs that have been created through that process have been 16 we've invested our capital investment in the community has been a million seven direct increase in taxable property values has been about two and a half million dollars in terms of our business recruitment uh projects that function of recruiting new businesses and marketing to them is contracted to the san angelo chamber of commerce through their efforts over the past five years there have been 401 jobs created capital investment in the community is over 167 million dollars and i would point out that the amount of incentives that have been paid in those efforts is zero dollars so the chamber is doing an excellent job of uh recruiting those businesses based on the attributes of our community our main function in economic development is to create a city where people want to live and do business and that's all part of this effort that goes in to making that type of thing possible with no incentives in terms of our industrial park we need to have the infrastructure there available we've sold in those that industrial park approximately 123 acres over the last five years how many acres are there total acres bob so the amount of total sales revenue that's been produced by the sale of those properties is 2 million 627 630 dollars for those the total appraised

[3:11:08] value of improvements resulting from that sale is over 80 about 87 million dollars and increasing the appraised taxable value has been a little over 24 million dollars that's just in the five year that's in the five-year period of time yes ma'am we also uh do what are called ballot projects those are projects that are uh voted on by the community for things that they would like to see happen in there just on the average in the last five years we spent about six and a half million dollars a little over six and a half million dollars every year on those projects so a large amount of the revenue that we collect goes towards supporting those valid projects glad to answer any questions that council might have in regard to that do i have questions from council i think it's just important for us to see from an economic development standpoint what it does for the community you know just a quick calculation looks like to me we generated 300 350 000 in additional revenue for the city based on just what guy presented here so you know i think to your point mayor economic development's important it's our future no i think based on his numbers no no i think we 300 300 000 additional tax revenue into city coffers roughly it's the way we pay for our streets it's the way we're going to pay for all the infrastructure that we need is through growth on our tax base and that comes through economic development whether it's through the chamber or whether it's from just people coming to town but we're here to help grow the tax base which helps all citizens and find them well i applaud bob and and guy both in shannon um the whole office for the helping our local existing businesses

[3:13:10] um talk about our tax rate of 0.77 and being largely paid for by our residential customers here and if you take a look for example at midland where we have less than 5 billion dollars in commercial property taxable property values they have over 12 billion it tells you why their rate on their residential tax rate is lower than ours it's about the taxable commercial and industrial tax base that gives you relief from the residential and that's what we need to grow thank you all right we have item g consider ratifying a resolution by cosa dc authorizing the use of sales and use tax funds in the amount of 65 thousand dollars for the purpose of awarding a contract dc-1-19 to enter direct usa ltd dba community development strategies for expert services to prepare a comprehensive housing analysis analysis that will access access overall housing needs in the competitive market area to include workforce and affordable housing you're right that's that's certainly a mouthful so i'd like i think i missed up a couple words there let me first of all just tell you what is involved with a comprehensive housing study san angelo has never conducted a comprehensive housing study now this is a program that seeks input from a wide variety of sources both on the supply side and on the demand side it turns what we have is anecdotal information we know that there's shortages in certain areas of housing both single-family housing apartments other types of housing in the community

[3:15:14] and the study allows us to obtain some empirical data to study that to find out where we might have gaps so in terms of collecting data we not only collect data that's vital from our real estate organizations that information is critical we also collect data from our banking and financial institutions that are supporting the projects that are being built out there our builder and development community is extremely uh involved in the process because it this study provides them data that they can take to the bank that will help them show that there is potential demands and certain levels of housing uh apartment complexes we go back to the planning stages on those and look at anything that is might be in the planning stages in regard to housing studies that are coming in the housing study will have special emphasis on our largest employer that has a problem which is a good fellow air force base they've done some studying that the study will take that information into consideration asu is a large user of our housing resources it will include them howard college will be included in that study now the particular firm that we've chosen to do this study there are actually a small number of people that are capable of doing these types of studies we actually had four that responded to our proposal but the particular one that we've chosen which is the lowest cost of the provider of but also is providing exactly what we're asking for has just conducted a study in odessa and the reason that's important is because what's happening in the permian basin has an impact on us finding that data would be extremely

[3:17:19] costly and expensive and so odessa is absorbing some of the cost of of providing that information since it's the same firm and has access to that information now the process that we've been through in this we've been actually looking at this study for about nine months now we've presented it at our chamber economic development advisory board meetings had discussions on that in the mayor's economic development meetings that she's conducted in one of the last meetings we had we brought in the builders that are extremely supportive of of this and it was at that point really we're we're actually looking for alternative sources of funding so if we get those it would help offset the cost of this study but we felt that there was a need to proceed without waiting any further the sooner we get this information the better this study once has begun and upon approval today that would that study would begin immediately once we had the contract in place they will begin collecting data from other sources but then the study will take about three to three and a half months because of all that's involved with uh meetings with all of the uh involved parties within our community the realtors association the banking community all the builders there's surveys that are involved with our major employees so on the demand side to help determine where that demand lies is what are housing providing now adequate would they like to see something else there's also uh information that's uh collected in that in terms of credit worthiness uh in some general terms or do we have people that have a credit ability to say purchase a home as opposed to

[3:19:21] renting an apartment and that sort of thing so you can see it's a very involved study uh have high confidence level and the folks that are going to do this study and so i'd be glad to answer any questions that you might have well yes go ahead harry we have a number of experts in in the community i wonder whether or not we have have some of those individuals at asu or the real estate association apartment association that can answer some of these questions and and i understand if you've got one person that's out collecting data and it's all in one pot but i wonder whether or not that's something that we can that we could do internally uh within the city yes sir and that's a very good question and one that i've had experience with where communities have tried to undertake projects like this the coordination involved in that coming together to come up with the result of that study is extremely difficult to get to now those all those data sources that you mentioned are extremely important this group takes all that into consideration it also takes into consideration data sources that aren't available locally and combines all of that to do this study they actually have a a program that is involved that analyzes this data and so when they come up with the results of this study what they are basically presenting to you is it will tell you let's say in the 150 price range uh the estimated demand is such and such and so for each level for apartment complexes it's this demand we feel like we that san angelo can support this many uh units of apartments and that sort of thing

[3:21:22] one of the main benefits of what they provide in the study is it's almost that a developer a local builder can take that as a business plan to the banker because uh i asked in in one of the meetings of all the builders that were in the room that were building spec houses how many of you have an idea where the demand comes from for your particular houses and not one of them could say that that's why they're highly supportive with this it helps them take the risk out it helps them receive financing from the bankers because we're absorbing some of that risk in providing empirical data rather than speculative data out to those individuals the other thing involved in the study is when you're talking about apartment complexes so many of those that are out there get their financing from hud what regardless if it's a market rate apartment or it's a a low-income housing project we've already had apartment complexes that have approached here and would like to build apartment complexes at market rate there are only five market rate apartments in san angelo they have 90 plus percent occupancy in them and so we know anecdotally that there is bound to be additional demand for that but when these apartment developers went to hud for financing they were told you're not on hud san angelo texas is not on hud's radar they're looking at the permian things like that this the study results will help us get on hud's radar so that uh people if it's shown that there is demand for additional apartments which probably will happen that we might be on their radar uh for that type of financing to help get those

[3:23:25] apartments financed you know i originally was very opposed to this as you know and we went back and forth many times on why we needed it and i fought aggressively to say i don't know why we can't just use the resources that we have and the information that we have through the realtors association etc because we do know that they have a tremendous amount of knowledge as it relates to our real estate market on the other hand i think the thing that sold me on the idea that we needed to do it was the fact that if you have someone coming to you from outside to build something in the city if you hand them this report it's much easier for them to go get a loan and i also did not realize the breadth and depth of which this analysis would be done and the idea would be that you don't have one person who could devote enough hours in a three-month window to come up with that report in three months that's that broad in terms of analysis of the data there's just in to think that you could have someone at many different organizations pulling it all together and coming up with the same report as not and for 65 000 is probably not realistic it guys see when did you start this job nine months ago it's taken you nine months or eight and a half months to convince me that it's an important thing to do i fought it all away and i am i'm signed up and supportive of it and i hadn't been until a month ago well the thing i would say and this is based on experience in another community is before i had done this had the study done in that community they had attempted to do it internally thinking the same thing a couple years before the result of that was that once the data was collected there's nobody to really analyze that data so they spent a great amount of time surveying people and gathering data only to to stick it on a shelf we know housing is a number one issue if

[3:25:27] people can't find the quality or the level or the price point they want in this city then they'll choose something else whether it's for their employees or for their retirement or for their education or for whatever reason so like i said it took you eight months but you got me we keep talking about needing housing as far as the if you want investment here locally here's the proof i mean we're proving to you that here's the need not just where the we're lacking as far as housing but also the citizens here in our community that are willing or able to pay for that as well so again as we recruit and try to get uh houses developed in our community it is good to have a plan that you can present and say here it is i mean uh take it and run with it you know use it to assist you with the financing and i think it's a really good product thank you and one of the uh the things that from an economic development standpoint that's important to us is we have a three percent unemployment rate and so when new businesses want to come uh the chances are they're they're going to have to bring their employees that and that's what we're experiencing well they need to be able to have adequate housing and we need to be able to answer that question out there is there adequate housing in you know in the range that our employees can afford and that sort of thing so i've seen the results of housing study before in a previous job the results come fairly uh quickly as a result of having that that information available so i'll be glad to answer any questions we have further comments from counsel do i have a motion to approve the 65 000 for the purpose of a housing study a second do i have public comment please come forward good afternoon

[3:27:34] i am shirley spears i am a local real estate broker here in san angelo and i had some questions regarding the presentation that was just made and there are several pieces to it so i'll try to make sure that i'm not confusing anything one of the things you mentioned was credit ability but at the same time we talked about the possibility of building more um apartments uh and the idea of getting this data so that we can be on the radar for hud uh for um community development dollars my question is in this creditability study are we really looking at affordable housing for the citizenry here in san angelo to afford homes to purchase as homeownership and legacy products as opposed to continuing to pay the high price of rent and not having a legacy to leave to their families the second part of it was regarding a question that was i believe asked by council man um harry thomas and that is the data collection efforts while i understand that maybe it seems um to flow better to have this consulting company to analyze and collect the data or i should say collect and then analyze uh has there been any consideration to making sure that in the collection of the data that we are looking at current renters and their uh employment income as we look at economic development to continue to um have renters again versus homeowners good question shirlene i think guy can answer those questions sure those are excellent questions when we're talking about looking at credit worthiness what we would really hope to find out and of course the only way you find that out is through a study and we don't try

[3:29:37] to influence the study the study is what it is it may come in it may come in and tell us no you know there's not credit worthiness for homes it might tell us yeah there is and we're not really selling that in the right way for example the same thing happened in a previous study that i did that we found out that there's a whole market out there where people are credit worthy but they may not have had the options within their particular price range and so through our financial institutions they begin to advertise well you know we've got financing available zero down financing and uh to actually help them the other part of the the study is the financial institutions are very interested in this because they would love to lend money for for houses uh if not if it shows that there's not the credit worthiness that may trigger apartment developers to to come in to fill that need so to shirley's question i think she wants to know are we looking at this to um only as apartment dwellers or potential housing and what and that's we're looking at both what what's the need how many people are living in apartments that would rather live in a house but what is that price point of a house they could afford that's correct all levels all levels of housing right all levels of housing market rate as well as low income or all of that will be taken into consideration so it's not just about one avenue or one price point or one profile right the the thing that you can't do in a an affordable or in a comprehensive housing study is to overlook affordable housing and and that sort of thing so it could be that an aspect of that is that we might need more affordable housing in the community so until the data is analyzed all the

[3:31:40] components come together and everything you really don't know what that is except anecdotally and you know that's not a place to be you want to have some empirical data and what was the second question it was answered if you i think you answered both of them thank you both of those for you okay yes please come forward the follow-up is uh hud is not the only and i think we all know that option for getting financing available to purchase a home i guess as a real estate professional my interest and it's not an anecdotal thing but my interest is in making sure that we look at the larger picture in america which is home ownership and that requires financial literacy training and all of that within your community and uh when the results come back from whatever data is gathered i think it's important for us as a city to get with our local experts to ensure that regular citizens are being able to afford housing housing in terms of home ownership even if it's small homes affordable homes and that we need to look at increasing the interest in people moving to san angelo that there are affordable homes and i'm talking about professionals even as teachers and firefighters who don't have great salaries and they cannot afford a 250 000 home so i'm hoping that the data that comes back will allow us as a city uh to focus on affordable housing we certainly believe in that and i will say the following that when we have the data from what i understand the presentation will be made to many various groups in san angelo so that this is a document that whether you're working for whoever you're working for talking to whatever group the the information will

[3:33:43] be public and very available and we'll have a presentation here made in city hall at a city council meeting so the idea would be to share and and to make sure that the value is implemented and carried out that's one of the things that we want to do is to give wide dissemination of this report and make it available to everyone because that is one of the elements in it there's a lot of education that needs to be done people think that they might not be able to afford a housing for one reason or the other i think there's an aspect where people can come in and help educate people that yes you can afford that that you may be throwing your money way on renting or or however that result comes out another thing that comes out as a result of this study is they will make recommendations as to how government and other agencies can help in supporting the development efforts in that whether it's development participation agreements where we help uh keep the cost of housing down to an affordable level it's no longer just uh the lower income people that have a housing crisis in this nation it's the middle class has it and i think that's an area where we're going to find out through the study that there may be an avenue to help make housing affordable for our middle class as well for the questions from the public please for comments andy poole executive vice president financial association realtors excuse me mayor and council um the only thing i want to say is this this report probably would be very very interesting for all of us to hear i do want you to know that in the nine months that this

[3:35:47] review has been going on the san angelo association of realtors was not involved or asked to be a part of that nine month study to come to where we are today to spend sixty five hundred sixty five thousand dollars uh we would like to be not only part of it you're talking housing we are the group that believes as shirley has said in affordable housing we are the group that has the reports from the national level through the state level and we were not involved in any of this and i would give um all of you maybe direction or ask for direction that we be part of this um mr andrews talked about the apartment association and he talked about the home builders but we were not invited and i really have a problem with that it really upsets me after nine months that we were not invited yes there was a member of our association that was on this little board but he did not have authorization to represent the financial association so we just want to be part of it we believe fully as you well know in private property rights and affordable housing and we feel very strong that our reports and things that we would have to give forward would be probably even more information than most of you would realize we have thank you thank you very much i would just like to add this that i've already apologized to candy for that oversight the meetings i attended we assumed that we had representation so i totally agree that they need to be intimately involved in this we're looking forward to the type of information and i hope that we will be able to work with them i i don't see any reason why i wasn't really aware of that as a relative newcomer uh about that particular aspect

[3:37:50] of it and the way things evolve but again candy i apologize to you and i also think candy um i was under the assumption or i think i'd been told that you all had been invited and there was a conflict of the date so my apologies with that because i think i was told you were out of town in one of the meetings and so um it was not without the invitation if i'm not mistaken but that being said there is no intent to eliminate any organization that can give value back to this report it's supposed to be a community based at all levels at all points and so we'll make sure that that is done going forward do we need to get that info out to guy before we vote on 65 000 what info the info that she has available the studio is there any info that's that candy and the association has that the study is going to entail that we could potentially already knocked that off the checklist together that they will put all of that information together that info along with the apartment and the information will be you know they want the most current as they come in to do the study so i mean we get you know some reports on a monthly basis but that's certainly just the tip of the iceberg with the information that they have and so uh you know i know that the they want uh our consultant wants access to mls data and all kinds of other data and so the more that can be provided the faster the study will go terry come forward good morning i was not going to speak today but i didn't i am um mls data texas is a non-disclosure state we do not disclose mls sole data to anyone so to anyone so that is

[3:39:52] that's ours that's what we use for our business and that is not disclosed but i think that there have been statistics provided there's some there's some data that's whole but there's no way you can have our mls data which is what he just asked for i think this consultant group has worked with cities before terry i know and i understand we've had other people probably know what they can or cannot have is my experience because san angelo's different we don't release anything some of the others do and they will give it to whomever to use for uh studies like this our association does not so just want to give you a heads up on that that that's unavailable the sole data meaning you won't because for example we've been told for that 66 percent of the houses sold in the month of january we're priced from 100 to 150 000 there is a data relevance that we can send out that's one sheet of it of the report but actually the you know our mls and that's what he referred to as mls data that is it shows exactly what property what it sold for everything else and that is not disclosed what what is you would have availability available to you would be as a whole this is what you know this price range this price range and this is the percentages basically we would use what you can provide okay obviously you can't provide what you can't provide so exactly no one's going to ask you to lie cheat or steal and give us information you're not supposed to give so because yeah we can't do that we just would hope for support in trying to get the best document we can to ensure that we have the best city we can have absolutely thank you we support your standards yes billy um terry yes ma'am i know you don't provide that information on sales price of specific properties but can't you go online and get that from the appraisal district

[3:41:55] information no the appraisal district has different information they they do a tax evaluation what ours is is not that ours is based on sole property so there's a difference in the types of reason i asked that is because uh when i challenged an appraisal you know they showed me how i could go on and see that there were 10 houses in the area where i was looking at and what each property so far so i don't know if they provide that information or you know if they're willing to share it i would love to talk to you after the meeting okay okay thank you thank you any further public comment yes ma'am steve hampton i have a question well this uh uh the kind well this determined the kinds of property you talked about ranges there uh and there are several different ranges but also uh um price of property like around parks and recreation areas which could also help the city uh the need for parks uh and this isn't a study about parks but i know but it it would affect housing prices and um that at different levels i can't answer that i don't know guy well the study itself is not about property values or prices it's what range of houses need to be built in order to meet the demands of people looking at that so it doesn't involve any type of property values or assessing that or anything certainly property values are relative to where they're located etc etc so it's it would all be inclusive of a house price obviously any further public comment

[3:44:08] and i have concerns about this about use of tax money for such a study and i might it feels like you're interjecting the government into what really could be run by the free market and and plus i'm not a big proponent of communities planned to the money in detail and i have a further question a further concern is that is with this study be used to there there's a there's their ideas people have certain ideas what every neighborhood community should look like rather than having it you know decided by the people that move in and out of it and that and that live and thrive in that community so is this could this be if this seems to me this could be the first step and actually setting the stage for what uh what each what type of housing should be in each neighborhood and what type of people should live in each neighborhood so that it looks like a more of a global scenario so that we're all you know cookie cutter and all that so that is a concern and that may sound crazy but it you know it is a concern of mine not a study to dictate it's a study to understand what the community wants so if you went to ask somebody who lived in a certain neighborhood if you could have a brand new house here you could change your living conditions would you like upgraded apartments new apartments would you like a house would you like a townhouse would you like a duplex so it's trying to better understand i believe and i'm not the person to answer this but i don't believe it's about trying to put round pegs into square holes and force something it's about trying to find out what the marketplace feels is missing i don't know how to better explain it i might not have explained it at all now that does and i don't think it initially would be intended for that but i think that it could perhaps set the stage for

[3:46:10] something like that but again it goes back to my my original thought too was that isn't this something that really would be better handled by the market rather than a government agency and use of tax dollars to set this up so thank you thank you let me address that issue uh once again we have sought funding from an organization they just have not been able to meet it's a long standing organization where we feel that we can get funding so we wouldn't pay for this however in terms of government doing this is actually uh part of the half cent sales tax this is an authorized uh use of the half cent sales tax that has been decided by our state government is is uh encoded into our local government code so that we are able to do this in terms of letting the private sector do that i don't know of any developer single developer or builder in san angelo that can put forth sixty five thousand dollars so what we're doing is partnering uh with those organizations and this is an incentive if you will to uh get them to look at potentially developing this takes nothing away whatsoever from the private sector and decisions of the free market to determine what they want to do with this data after it's out there government has no intent of dictating anything in regard to this we will look at possibilities of partnering with people to help accommodate this if there's a need to do that thank you any further public comment all right with no further public comment we'll take a vote all in favor of um the 65 000 housing study say aye any opposed none opposed it passes seven zero we will move on to item h

[3:48:16] consider ratifying a resolution by cosa dc authorizing the sale of approximately 6.4 acres of land out of the san angelo business and industrial park to jeff prince operating lp at a price of twenty five thousand dollars per acre and authorizing the board president to negotiate and execute a real estate sales contract mr sneeman thank you as you said this is a an offer of twenty five thousand dollars per acre which is the price that we've been selling property for in phase one um some of the specifics of the contract they have asked for a 120 day inspection period and to close within 30 days after the expiration of the uh inspection period or sooner if if both parties can agree and uh part of the reason for that is that they've asked that we the seller provide a text driveway permit on loop that accesses loop 306 or provides them access from the loop 306 frontage road um they're not in this is going into the main gate versus going into the main entrance and and uh well i'll show you in a minute okay i have a drawing so um this is the entrance that they're most concerned about this is uh loop 306 this is fm 380. so they we are proposing uh that they do a driveway here as well but um the the their main one that they're interested in is this one uh and there are some issues with txdot that we're gonna have to work through because there is a there is an on-ramp to lu306 that's right there so how would that work well what we're proposing is that they would it would be in only to this property so they wouldn't be able to come out of the driveway and try to get onto the 306. so there's some issues to work through and we've that's

[3:50:18] also why we're going to talk about another item here in a minute about hiring a consultant to do some of this uh yes billy um on your previous slide where they're asking that we provide the txdot permit is there a cost associated with that um there is a couple hundred dollars um there's the the greater cost is coming up in the next item um i'd be happy to answer questions i guess my it just doesn't look feasible when you look at it and say you're going to have to work with txdot to do it i'm certainly not opposed to it as long as you can get text dots approval it just i staff actually met with text on this about two months ago and their official position is this is not authorized however as they put it there is an appeals process uh and the appeals process takes into concern things like need uh economic impact and that sort of thing so um so what is the answer if we say if txdot says no we won't allow it does that kill the cell this particular one it probably would do i have other questions from council on this tommy it looks like yeah question um i know you you stated bob that in phase one uh the going price was 25 000 per acre as the board yet started looking at the potential of increasing i i would assume that peace property like this would be potentially more valuable than one farther away since this is right on the corner there so is that something y'all have started conversations on we have and we've gotten a we've gotten a uh a new appraisal over the last i think we

[3:52:22] got within the last two months uh and they have recommended that we increase the price somewhat um but they've given us a range to based on uh access to the highway and and things like that this deal if you will was in the works before we got that new appraisal so this will be probably one of the last that we'll be looking at under that upgrade the old appraisal but again if it's contingent i'm sorry if it's contingent though on the driveway so if for some reason it doesn't sell in the future then we can actually do that yes okay and it's something we need to address anyway um on as we get to these last couple of parcels and i'll show a little more of that on that in a minute what's that rounded area at the bottom here this this is a that's a ramp or not a ramp but a turn lane well the property to the this side of it i see the turn lane but is that tech stop property here yeah that is textile right away as well yes it would seem like it'd be easier to get a text out right away to allow an exit or an entrance from that piece of property but i don't know what it visually looks like than up there there's there's a significant drop off there also um txdot has a some pretty stringent regulations on that distance for example how far you can be from an intersection before you can have a driveway um we this what about where the line comes down and it crosses over like it goes this way and it goes this way in that corner uh here yeah no up up where the arrow is that corner here yeah that would they would be too that would be too close to the intersection for them to approve it the closer you get to the intersection the harder it is to get it approved yeah but that other thing looks tough but then again that's not our decision so it's not what we're voting on

[3:54:24] yes ma'am um since that is so close to the curve to go around to you know get the entrance ramp what is the particular issue with having an entrance for this particular buyer with an entrance and exit where they're going to put the one here on fm 380. uh so so we're not asking for an exit uh out of the operation i'm just saying the what what's the problem with the buyer with only having the one way in and one way out he's going to have quite a bit of customer traffic and so his perception is that this is going to be the maneuver they want to make rather than to get here and have to figure out okay that's where i want to go how do i get there oh i have to i have to turn here i have to go down here and i have to go in it doesn't seem like that's a whole lot of distance but it's not planned it's not particularly asking too much but that's from our perspective again it's a text dot thing correct so with that move to approve is presented a second second any public comment on item h no public comment on item h we'll take a vote all in favor say aye with none opposed motion passes seven zero thank you we'll move on to item i mayor oh yes excuse me i'm gonna have to recuse myself on this item okay conflict of interest okay consider ratifying a resolution by kosa dc authorizing the board president to negotiate and execute a professional services agreement with centurion planning and design in an amount not to exceed seven thousand five hundred dollars relating to an approved project for additional professional engineering and surveying services required by txdot on a permit applications for driveway access to a

[3:56:27] portion of the remainder block 1 san angelo gateway edition section 1 of the san angelo business industrial park yes sir thank you again this relates to the previous item uh this is a a small professional engineering contract to to prepare a conceptual grading and drainage plan and do a runoff analysis for the property that we just talked about uh and it's that submittal will be required as a part of the txdot driveway permit process uh so this the engineers are gonna prepare the engineering documents preliminary engineering documents and also work with txdot on the driveway permit and the appeal process if if it becomes necessary this total contract amount is not to exceed seven thousand five hundred dollars uh this gives a little better idea of what we are proposing uh out there and this is this is a sketch that i came up with i'm sure the professionals will will come up with something a little better um but again we have this driveway as an in only flow through and this would be a two two-way driveway but it would serve both the corner property and the adjacent property similarly this one would serve two properties and then this one would serve one and we feel like in the txdot appeal process these are some things that we're giving to textile to eliminate to limit the number of accesses off of fm 380 to improve the safety in that area and in exchange for that and in only driveway in this location each of these will require a detention pond that will also be part of txdot's concern there is a large well not a very large culvert that goes under fm 380 right

[3:58:30] there we're proposing that we regulate the flow to that with detention this this study would also uh provide preliminary uh sizing for all the detention ponds so the hearts the horse before the car which one goes first h or i i mean for i we've already already i know we did but i mean this is a study right that you want to be done to help convince txdot to do what was the item before right um yes but this is a study that we'd also have to do probably to sell that property no matter what so so it's not the cart before the horse the horse before the car you need to do it the two sort of go hand in hand additionally we would probably negotiate to pay for half of that driveway entrance and then if we sold this property first negotiate to pay for half of that driveway entrance and and the cost of those would then be added to this the cost of this lot because they would be getting their driveway entrances for free so it's sort of a mini master plan at the same time there yes michael bob if if this sale of this corner doesn't go through and you have this work done it does make the rest of it more marketable is that true that's correct you've answered some of the potential buyers questions that's correct just depending on text. okay do i have questions from council on this seventy five hundred dollars move to approve it's presented there's a motion a second second and public comment with no public comment we'll take a vote all in favor of approving item i say aye aye any opposed passes seven zero six six i mean six zero forgot tommy disappeared on us six zero

[4:00:35] okay that's wrong six that's right okay with that we will um on the agenda says closed session but at this point there are no items for the closed session so we will not actually be having one so we will move into item nine follow up in administrative issues i'll wait till tommy sits down all right so item a we don't need to do of course so item b is consider approving various board nominations the construction board of adjustments and appeals rodney mayberry smd4 to second term ending february 2021 and brooks weiner smd five to a second term ending february 2021 design and historic review commission stephen mclaughlin smd four to second term ending september 2020 economic development corporation william dindle smd-2 to a second term ending february 2020 and garland freeze smd-6 to first term ending february 2021 fort concho museum board wayland cooksey smd-4 to second term ending january 2021 and curtis milburn smd five to first term ending january 2021. parks and recreation advisory board debbie wilson took first full term ending december 2020. do i have a motion to approve the nominations the board nominations as just read second any public comment on any of these nominations with no public comment we'll take a vote all in favor say aye any opposed none opposed nominations approved 7-0 item c is the announcements and consideration of future agenda items does council have any items they would like to be placed on the future agenda with none we'll move on to adjournment

[4:02:37] who would like to make a motion to adjourn i think one of my constituents wanted to make a comment oh i didn't did i see somebody do that uh miss shirley spears surely i didn't see it sorry gotta do this shirley spears uh san angelo resident president of the naacp unit 6219. i've spoken with councilwoman lucy gonzalez and i've also met with the parks and recreation advisory board various members of our organization are concerned about the restroom situation at martin luther king park on martin luther king drive in single member district 4. we understand that there will be some additional review and discussion of how community parks versus neighborhood parks are handled and the true definition of what a neighborhood park is versus a community park which may be impacting our inability to have a stable discussion or solid discussion i'll say on moving this forward it's our understanding that the situation at martin luther king park has been what it is since around 2004 there were efforts made to get it into the budget and it didn't make it and we are now asking as we approach this time frame uh for what we're about to do now mayor and council that we give consideration and put this back on um the radar we have a lot of families in that community and we feel that families and some of our seniors would benefit if they felt more comfortable that they could go there and had reasonable accommodations for restrooms we are concerned about some other issues which we are taking up with the appropriate city authorities but we believe that as we prepare to do the survey for what will be input for the next budget we want to ensure

[4:04:38] that martin luther king park on martin luther king drive single member district 4 is given some consideration thank you now does anybody else want to raise your hand so i can see it and make sure that i've allowed you an opportunity to speak for future announcements i don't see any hands going up so now there was a motion and a second and a vote that i think is 7-0 with that said we are adjourned and rick you need

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=TAtytOYZLvA