San Angelo City Council 2-17-15

[0:00:00] give them wisdom in the deliberations the decisions that they make be it the citizens that will come to speak today Lord thank you for the Democratic process that you give to us God thank you for our military we're grateful for those that serve at goodfella we thank you Lord for our school system bless uh Dr bonds and our school board uh thank you for our schools that are represented here today uh God we ask your blessings upon our law enforcement officials and our uh fire department thank you God for those that serve us and keep us safe God again we're grateful for the privilege that we have uh to live in this great land and to come and to pray and to honor you bless us today Lord in Christ's name we pray amen amen thank you so much thank you sir I need these four Fort cono kids to come forward ta s Cullen honia is that any even is that even close Hony Okay Marshall fluke that'd be you and Seth that's you and Seth Mariano Marty come down here with us I think you have a relationship with one of these kids don't you his granddaughter is here helping us so if y'all would let's face and we will say the Pledge to the American flag and then to the Texas flag y'all get us started and we got it going to the flag of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation God indivisible withy and justice for all Texas flag i al to Texas one state God one and indivisible thank youall so very much appreciate yes

[0:02:02] sir do have three proclamations to read we will start off it's water conservation month and that's what these third graders from Fort conour are here for today they're going to make us a presentation and give us some wisdom in way we need to handle our water so let me uh read this who's going to accept this award are all of them coming up come up and as I read this and then we'll get a picture taken and give somebody the opportunity to make a speech start coming this way as I read this it says the Ango water Warriors believe that every drop of water counts they are part of the Texas Research Institute of young scholars where they have re where they have researched all year and are taking large steps to help s Angelo save water they want to make a proclamation that during the month of May everyone in St Angelo focuses on saving water they want St Angelo march to save water please Zer Escape your yard install a rainwater harvesting system or install water efficient shower heads and toilets remember every Drive matters therefore I Dwayne Morrison the mayor of the city of St Angelo on behalf of the city council do hereby proclaim the month of March 215 as march to save water in St Angelo Texas and encourage the community in the support and participation of all citizens to focus on saving water y'all are the same fored just up here you want the rest of teachers you want the rest of them to come up to get in the picture or just this group if everybody whoever wants to be in a picture come on up come on right back here go oh that'll be fun don't worry about and who's going to hold this now hold it so that Brian can get we're going to have to come in a little bit get in here you like you like each other come in from that side don't worry

[0:04:04] problem sir don't worry about it so we'll get all right anybody else want to take a picture they anybody on this side over here I have an idea the left side of this probably will be edited out thank y'all very very much we [Applause] appreciate thank you appreciate we have another Proclamation this is for the spay and neuter program who's going to be accepting this Leanne web are you here did y'all want to make some comments or you going to wait until your presentation wait till the presentation okay is anybody here to accept the proclamation for the spay and neuter if not then I'll just read it and give it to Brian okay come on up in fiscal year 213 more than 9,000 unwanted animals entered the city of St Angelo's animal shelter of those nearly 7,000 or 75% were euthanized the cause of this situation is not that there were too few homes in s Angel willing to adopt pets it's that our community has a pet overpopulation problem frankly this is an issue we can fix this month the city of St Angelo teamed with K Valley Pauls to launch an initiative aimed at reducing the number of unwanted animals who enter the shelter and are eventually put down this effort was purposely rolled out to coincide with national spay neuter mon dub the spay neuter Initiative Program or appropriately snip this partnership will seek to persuade the public of the needs to alter pets and will educate citizens with many benefits to their pets of doing so furthermore snip will raise awareness of the options for obtaining lowcost spaying and neutering throughout the conso valley Paul's Voucher Program

[0:06:06] which is detailed at the consul valy falls.org many of these vouchers will be used on National spay day on February 24th snip will sound a constant drum beat of messages and information in a move to change the local culture regarding spaying and neutering much of s Angelo has changed attitudes about water use and conservation and citizens will soon have branded into their own Consciousness the tagline it is the snip that saves money time and lives also the city of Stan Angelo commends conso Valley Pauls for working with us to reduce the community's pedop overpopulation problem in a positive and productive fashion now therefore I Dwayne Morrison the mayor of the great city of St Angelo on behalf of the city council to Here by Proclaim February 215 as National spay and neuter month M make speak sir um on behalf of the City animal shelter I want to thank the Paul's organization and all the rescue groups uh for all their efforts and hard work and trying to address a very very tough problem I think this partnership is a great one and I think together we'll be able to reduce the number of stray animals in our streets and I think the message is clear if you love your pets spay nether them thank [Applause] you thank buddy and this next group just man I am so I am so proud of you l view girls so if you would start coming forward line up back here and let me read this Proclamation it is good to see kids from my alma moer in the district Championship the lake view maidens basketball team won the sonor tournament they were finalist in the Breen Ridge tournament in which weather cancelled a final this year they have a 6 in2 District record which is the most District win since 1999 and holds top 20 State rankings in both the TABC number 18 and the tgca number 14 for the first time in school history this year's 25

[0:08:10] wins was most in school history and they made the first playoff appearance since 1999 this historical season is the reason that we are recognizing our student athletes of the lake view maidens basketball team now therefore I Dwayne morson mayor of the city of St Angelo on behalf of the city council to hereby recognize and applaud the Lake View maidens basketball team not only for their outstanding and impressive victories but for their commitment to each other and to the program and who's going to take this and give a speech all of you want to give a speech coach you want to take you want to accept this okay I speak um just wanted to tell everybody in the c s Angelo how proud We Are to represent you and L you in our community and hopefully you can bring home a victory tonight and keep this just going um these kids work really hard and they deserve your support and I'm really proud to be here in St Angelo thank you and they will start District play tonight in luk against padura so these kids are going to they're going to the top let's take a picture this time he can cut the right side off thank you Brad you want picture yeah got it thank y'all so very much and good luck [Applause] tonight and let me just read these names

[0:10:16] of these girls Erica Sosa Jordan Brooks gab Gabriela Ramirez Lexis Norris Reagan noraga Dez corillo Rebecca Ridgeway Marissa Marino Destiny Lucas Brianna soles Cassie Bella Alexis Garcia and Darian Bankston and this Rob Young's the head coach assistant coach is Clay riddle Brianna Wilson Ty new managers Alisa blue Brooke Mado and Cheyenne basa congratulations girl we're very very proud of [Applause] and now this is a time for public comment public comment is when we allow the public to come forward I'll give you three to five minutes at the microphone and you're able to say whatever you want to say if you want to compliment us we take it if you want to criticize we take that let me read the logistics and I'll open up the floor to public comment this is for anything that is not on the agenda the council takes public comment on all items in the regular agenda public input on the regular agenda item will be taken at its appropriate discussion public input on an item not on the agenda or consent agenda may be identified and requested for consideration by the council at this time the council May request an item to be placed on a future agenda or for a consent agenda item to move to the regular agenda agenda for public comment on public hearing items public input will be received on each item immediately following the council discussion and prior to any action on the item each member of the public should make the remarks from the podium and begin by stating their name remarks by each citizen will be limited to three to five minutes unless weigh by a council member for all speaking on that

[0:12:18] matter no individual will be allowed to speak more than once on any one subject until every citizen wishing to comment has done so start farming line at the front hello Harry good morning Harry Thomas Community volunteer uh over the last several months we've had a number of citizens come to this Podium and discuss items a number of them were uh things in their own neighborhood I'd like to encourage these individuals to consider being part of the city on City boards and commissions so that they can help San Angelo take that next step and all the citizens can can enjoy what they need to do thank you thank you Harry [Applause] yes ma'am good morning good morning my name is irmao and my reason for addressing the city council this morning is to bring to your attention the Hazardous conditions of the streets in our neighborhood mainly North cellers and Norma Street due to continual water line break breakages ruptures leaks and March being water conservation I would think that you all would look into this there is at the present time there are three areas within a two block span with excavation repairs um there's kichi on the top there's loose rocks there's safety hazard this is a bus stop right there by one of the excavations numerous excavations it's not one or two or three down seller Street You Can Count 10 or 11 and some of them have been done over and over again it's um it is a hazard because there is a bus stop there there's children walking home to the thre Ros area um no speed bumps on that street and a lot of cars go through there to avoid the speed limit on the crosswalk to go LM more and the Bale Street traffic lights so I would appreciate the council if they would take into you know consideration into to repair more not repair replacement of the water lines because repair would do no good if the water lines are not repaired or replaced I'm sorry um this uh I love my neighborhood I would like

[0:14:20] to keep it safe and clean and this would help a lot if yall would please take into consideration and March Bean conservation water we would do need it in this neighborhood thank you thank you misso Bill Riley did you hear any of that okay next hello Carl good morning I'm pleased to introduce to you our new Civic events manager Mr Sydney Walker how you doing my name is Sydney Walker the new Civic events manager for for the city of St Angelo very excited to be able to work with with you all on many different issues for the city of St Angelo and bring exciting events hopefully we can all get together on the issues that need to be handled for civic events soon as possible thank you s it's good to meet you and welcome welcome to your job and thank you sir glad to here thank you sir thank you sir next y'all not going to let us off that easy are you I'll go to the council now welcome Miss grindan staff thank you go to the council now are there any comments that the council needs to make are there any items on the consent agenda that the council wishes to to pull start with you Rodney none at this house Marty none Johnny mayor I do want to add to what Miss stto said because Mr stto is the one that contacted me it is in my district I did a visit with Shane Kelton over the weekend and I drove out there and I wouldn't have called Shane if I didn't think it looked like a war zone nothing it really did I I think one thing we need to look at you know cuz a lot of this work is being done by contractors so Shane mentioned a 28 day rule that they have after they you know they fixed the the the the problem but I think maybe we even need to look at that because even putting some cones around the areas where they dug up CU there was a lot of Rock all over the place and and maybe folks will go around the cones I don't know but it was pretty bad and

[0:16:23] I've seen those time and time again and I and I feel for those folks to have to drive through that area I know West 9th I hope it got fixed also but there was two areas and mainly the the I did drive down the the Norman sellers area and it was very very bad so hopefully we can Bill hopefully we can uh Rectify that problem and move it in a faster and quicker uh process thank you that's all I had and that is exactly why this public comment section of this meeting is important and we want our citizens to be involved and if there's a problem Bill Riley and Shane they all know about the problems on seller street now so this this is the way it needs to be done Charlotte do you have anything ma'am no sir Don no sir M gr staff no well somebody then we are ready to move to the consent agenda this will be items number one through items number seven and if someone would make a motion to approve or disapprove and let's move on with the consent eight one through eight one through eight you said seven there's eight I missed one eight yes one through eight move approval Marty second Rodney it has been moved to approve the consent agendum item one through eight it has been seconded do I have any comment from the Council on the consent before I vote do I have any comments from the public on the consent agenda before we vote all in favor of approving the consent agenda please say I I oppose nay drop a 70 on that one please Brian next thing on our agenda is number nine under item G which is consideration of the following conservation pro pro proposals number a is a presentation by the S Angelo water Warriers at the third grade Ford konu Elementary and then B is a presentation by water utilities director Bill Riley let's start with our

[0:18:25] Fort cono group if y'all would please come forward and tell us what we need to do about water in San Angelo Texas hey guys you you tayor you're going to need to get to the microphone just push Brian out of the way [Laughter] just pull that microphone down to fit you so confused we are the St Angel Water Warriors we are third graders from Fort cono Elementary hi I'm T self hello I'm Colin Hony hi I'm Marshall fluke hello I'm Seth Mariano we are in a competition called the Texas Research Institute for Young Scholars we call it tries we are on a mission to help St Angelo save water water departments Across America whose cities are in drought conditions are looking for ways to get their customers to use less water they have realized that nothing gets the people more excited than saving money on their water bill we are asking the water department to give a rebate or a credit on the water bill when residents do one of three things off of this they could Harvest rain water zeroscape their yard install water saving shower heads or toilets or use less than the maximum allowed usage per customer per month here are a few here are a few words from one of our mentors Tim combest he says it to will harvest rain water by installing a rain barrel or gutter system it would need to be a

[0:20:28] approved by a service inspector before it could be approved for a rebate the inspector would need to be sure the system was installed correctly with no cross connection to the city water system we want residents to zos escape their yard a money back per square foot could be offered to Residents according to our research zeros scaping can offer the biggest water Savings of anything a resident can do note you also could offer a rebate for water saving showerheads or toilets also some cities give away showerheads and faucet screens because they are cheap and help save water some of our research comes from the Texas water development board they say that in Texas rainwater harvesting is not only allowed it is actively promoted by the state rainwater is superior quality zero harness sodium free and nearly neutral pH apart from the cost to collect and save the water rainwater harvesting is free rainwater harvesting eliminates the need for costly treatments and dist Distribution Systems some cities and counties offer rebates and financial incentives to promote rainwater harvesting we hope that San Angelo will do that too not over the benefits of Zer escaping Lawns and trees are the biggest users of water for most residents Zer escaping can cut your water usage by 50 o by over 50%

[0:22:33] reduce lawn maintenance and save thousands of gallons of water a municipal drinking water per year steer escaping is a long-term benefit once done it saves water for years into the future we must change the way we think in West Texas when you Zer Escape your yard you don't have to push lawnmower around in the hot weather the benefits of of water saving shower heads and toilets according to the EPA a water saving shower head has helped consumers save a total of 757 billion gallons of water over 14.2 billion in water and energy bills an average family spends $11,100 per year in water cost but can save $350 on water saving shower heads or toilets our research Las Vegas and NADA says goodbye to Grass the Southern Nevada Water Authority pays its customers to remove water guzzling Lawns this has been the most popular water rebate roughly 143 million square fet of ornamental Lawns have been converted so far the Southern Nevada Water Authority pays its customers $150 50 each square foot of grass up to 55,000 Square ft after that the rebate drops $1 per square foot the in the southern Nevada Water Authority estimates the replacement of a single square foot of grass that saves about 55 gallons of water each year save the rain campaign says how much water can a system save depending on your normal usage it could save 30 to 50% of the treated drinking water in Mains and houses it could save 80% of the treated drinking water in businesses or

[0:24:36] commercial buildings who wouldn't be excited about saving 30 to 50% on their next water bill listen to what some of our city leaders are saying city councilman Marty self says you are very tiny but very smart and good hard workers Tony fox says water is life every drop counts Tim kumas says the two most important things that the citizens of San Angelo can do to help with the water shortage is Implement a rain harvesting system and zeroscape those two things will provide the most benefits of anything that can be done sadly there are no more available water sources in our area with city council vision and support s Angelo could become the rainwater harvesting leader in Texas thank you for your time and consideration do youall have any questions I don't have any y all covered that well anyone have any questions for the tiny people Marty it's amazing what you say when you go to a school and and it's all going to be caught on camera somewhere mayor can we replace uh Bill Riley and Tony and with these folks well I don't think it will be long I I I do I I do think on a serious note that um we as a council and we as a city have have you know they're learning at a very small age how important our our water uh our water is to us and we need to uh we need we need to make sure we're taking it serious and and we've started zeros scaping our yard so so that my wife doesn't have to mow quite as much so uh but I it it it is a serious uh uh it's a serious thing and we and we need to take it serious and start doing what we can as a city Rodney this is this is a great

[0:26:40] presentation I'm really glad that you guys brought this before us and I hope that us as a counil don't just sit here and listen to this it's just a program and it just it just goes by the the the the Wayside I hope that we can try to work hard on getting this implemented in our city in some form I'm not sure if we're going to be able to do the 50 per square foot because of uh the way our budget is set up right now but I think that we could come up with some kind of system to do this and help encourage people to do these two and I really hope that we don't drop the ball on this anyone down here I have a question yes ma'am uh what was it that you learned in your um in your project that you didn't expect to to find out was there something that really surprised you maybe about the city's consumption or how much you can save with [Laughter] harvesting we're big consumers of water aren't we yes we are and we don't really take very good care of it do we well thank you for your work it was very interesting like councilman Fleming said it'll be interesting to see what we can get implemented here but thank you for your work Don well I I just appreciate all the time that they spend on this thing and and you know sadly they're telling us things that we already know but I'm I'm glad that they're bringing them to the Forefront and like Marty was saying if they can start at this age hopefully by the time that they get ours they'll have everything under control Charlotte first of all I want to thank you it was an excellent presentation you did some really really good work um it's um whether you realize it or not you are our future so it's very enlightening to listen to a presentation and the work that you put into it and your facts and your figures and and like you said some of it we do know we are aware of and how to put that

[0:28:44] information to its best use I'd like to see that carry out yesterday I was doing some driving around in my district spent almost all yesterday afternoon out at the Bluffs and uh I was very very surprised to see the number of homes that have turned their lawns into seros escaping and the work that is being done by the individual homeowners out there so we we've got some considerations to make based on your presentation and thank you and Tina benel we have uh the council approved several months ago $3.6 million the Surplus M or the check that we got from Trash Away to pay off the $2 million deficit on under water department that's going to believe uh a pretty good sum of money and that may be that may be a source of money that we could use in our water department that we could Implement some of these programs Tina start working thank y'all very very much an excellent excellent presentation mayor mayor can I say something real quick just like Lake View is you're proud of your all mod Ford kto is mine you know I'm a product in Ford K Elementary and Lori back there wait for us Lori that's the leader of the campus and she has bring continues to bring these awesome ideas to the kids uh you just there are leaders and and I I like truly like what she's doing and I am so glad she's out there she and I went to school together and I'm proud to say that she's my friend and continue the good work out there Lori thank you bye bye my wife is also an alumni of Fort conu Elementary so thank you'all very much teachers did y'all want to say anything before we move on thank y'all very much let's move on now to uh the presentation by the utility director Bill Riley it may be one of your Replacements

[0:30:52] there Bill he bill I heard that bill but before you start it wasn't that the best presentation you've ever seen especially since my granddaughter was in and that's a very loaded question AB absolutely councilman that's the best right answer boss the um without a doubt any any change uh real long-term change in how we how we view water and use water in in this state or in this country uh starts with the little tiny people that are very smart and uh I certainly appreciate their uh what they've done and and I think it's it's so important uh that I wanted to kind of Follow that up and and kind of put some feed on what they're saying as far as rain rain harvesting and what's taking place and what what can take place uh and then I think in the future we'll be bringing y'all some some uh maybe some Alternatives or how some options of how we might uh promote that uh and in St Angelo but just kind of to get started um when I was a kid down on the coast there was no public water system and everybody had a sistern so I mean everybody collected rainwater that was their water supply but as water system Public Water Systems begin to grow uh into rural areas those kind of went away and you didn't see them too much anymore but about probably a decade ago as as uh the droughts begin to kind of take hold again in in this state in the country you begin to see those come back and people begin to implement uh rainwater harvesting systems or they would have you know the systemns or the rain barrels and uh and it became a real viable option for water conservation um and and had a real impact and real

[0:32:55] effect and so much so that uh the state began to recognize that value and and so much so that uh they have developed a uh a guidance document for rainwater hard harvesting as it pertains to to public water supply systems uh in addition the legislature has seen fit to offer uh some incentives for rainwater harvesting by uh giving T um tax sales tax exemptions for the purchase of of the rain barrels or rainwater collection systems and they've also allowed local entities to um Implement um property tax exemptions uh very similar to agricultural or Wildlife exemptions for properties that Implement uh rainwater harvesting or or other water conservation measures so the state has recognized that that collecting rainfall on an individual basis can have a real impact uh in in water conservation so what I wanted to do is kind of talk about those a little bit today as to what what's really out there and and just kind of what that means and what we're doing here already in St Angelo and what we might have the opportunity to do rain barrels come in all kinds of shapes and and sizes and and um from the small ones uh they they're now you know you can they come in uh colors and and shapes where you can Implement those as part of your Landscaping theme if you will so they they just kind of fit into what what you're doing and they also you have the small ones that might be uh simple systems where like most urban homes would have where it's typically under 100 gallons we have a couple of rain barrels and uh they're pretty inexpensive easy to install they kind of blend in again with your zeroscape and your landscape and they used mostly for watering plants and you know watering around your foundations and those kind of things you step that up a little bit to more larger tanks where this particular one they've got two 1500 gallon tanks used primarily for watering the zer Cape uh in in around that home

[0:35:00] this happens actually belong to this home belongs to Anthony Wilson Anthony's has about 3,000 gallons of rainwater uh can collect somewhere around 20,000 gallons a year uh to use around his his house then you go up from there to systems that there might be a whole house uh system and I'll show you that while I'm talking about it but this particular house belongs to Tim combest uh he's got about 12,000 a little over 12,000 gallons of of rainwater storage he can collect about 44,000 gallons a year of rainwater so but Tim uses this for all of his his his needs around his house uh he used it for his Gardens for irrigation he also uses it for all of his household and domestic uh needs now that's not uh the norm but it certainly can be done I to point out that Tim does have uh a water meter which is is disconnect connected but because he has that he pays the minimum bill every month even though he doesn't use it and and we like that about Tim but uh this is a little bit more expensive system cost about $88,000 to to implement uh but it does does uh make an impact and does have an impact just kind of look around the city where where it's being implemented already uh this is a Southside Recreation Center they have about 15 gallon 15,000 gallons of storage uh they can collect quite a bit annually and this is used for a garden project that's under underway uh at the water treatment plant we have about 6,500 gallons of of uh water storage um and we can collect about 20,000 gallons um a year this is used uh in the plant as you see in this slide uh on the on the left side slide what looks like a a big silver coffee pot is actually a filtration system where they they pour the water in the top it's a carbon filtration system and they use the water to drink they drink it there they also uh use it for making coffee and that

[0:37:03] kind of stuff and they use it in the lab it's a good quality water so they use it in the the quality control test in the laboratory so we're making good use of rainwater at the water treatment facility and then some other potential locations would be the new groundwater storage filling we're looking at areas that have large rooftops uh that you can utilize that uh area for collecting groundwater and I collecting Rainwater and there's a lot of those around the city that um uh that can do that and just as a note those top two buildings could collect over 200,000 gallons of rain water a year based on our average rainfall here uh that's that's relatively significant and you can begin to use those we've looked at some things even potentially you know car washing and those kind of things around you for City vehicles and those things to begin to to utilize that to save to save water so the point of all this and I guess the takeaway is that we have some real um rainwater harvesting is has some real value in the long-term Water Conservation Area especially in areas like West Texas what these uh young people are looking at uh could not be more important uh in any time than than than now and so I think what we're looking at is how can we promote that uh in San Angelo how can we expand that and I think we'll be bringing back to you sometime in the near future there are a lot of incentives that can be offered uh and just just showing the benefits of rainwater harvesting so what I want to do today was uh just support what they're doing I let you know what's what's going on what some of the options are and and uh and move forward with it thank you Bill you did a good job of piggybacking on those kids thank you do I have any comments from councel on this any questions for him any public comment open it up to the floor yes ma'am come to the microphone please ma'am we have to get you to state your name cuz we've got you on camera oh Lord ion Gibson and I was wondering has

[0:39:07] there been any thought to using gray water can we do that from the homes and it is now legal in the City of St Angelo in fact we changed this what was it rick back when Bob Reeves was here we allowed homes new homes to be built with gray water so that it could be reused on trees and so it is legal in the City of San Angelo not all of your house water has to go into the septic system you can divide your your black water from your gray water so we can do that but it needs to be more utilized right and that's and that is true you would want to contact the the inspection office they have some guidelines that the state has to go by as far as how that has to be worked but you can do it um but talk with some of the city offices or Sandra Vel and our health department can help Okay thank you we want to use it all we don't want to waste any of our water any more comments come come forward please well there coming up mayor we I think we were talking about incentives once we received the rate study yes do we have an idea of when that's supposed to be delivered to us because for the Public's benefit we've been talking about some incentive um Bill do you have any idea on that right study is going to be ready we're to microphone microphone that was recorded got you on camera too uh we still hope to have that within 90 days but I think that there might be pieces of that um uh that we could pull out things like that you know whenever we start begin to develop those that we could start to talk about those I think the sooner the better as we approach spring that would be very helpful yes ma'am uh there's a real need state your name first you got your own camera I'm Sarah Hardwick and we have some rain barrels there's a real need to have somebody have a business that helps you in dealing with how to set up rain barrels and use the water more efficiently right now we just haven't sitting under gutters but I you can use leaf guards and different things but my husband's very busy and I'm not a plumber at all and I've asked if there's

[0:41:10] anybody around town who can help set up rain barrel systems so that's a an idea if any I suggest you speak to Mr combes before you leave this room can you put your hand up Tim okay thank you he works for the city and he's very wise about this you just saw his home so he could probably be a reference for you okay thank you you may have just opened up brand new employment operations also Tommy Olive olives does Tommy do that yes they do any other fur uh any other further public comment before we move on hello Terry yeah my name is Terry Campbell yeah I'd just like to make a comment that to really look at how this a system would work with ssts you need to look down in the Florida Keys where I came from because there is about five Keys mainly big Torch Key and no name key which their only water supply is from systemns and they have filtration systems osmosis systems and all kinds of things they put up that that's the only thing they use is rainwater that's all thank you Terry also gives them a place to keep their alligators no alligators Keys that's on the mainland oh okay if there's no further comment on this we will move on to the next item on our agenda Ford Concho we appreciate yall very very much for your presentation and Bill you did a good R good job of piggybacking on them thank youall very [Applause] much the next item is number 10 it's consideration of adopting a resolution of the city council of the city of St Angelo Texas in support of the application of disinger Development LLC to be made to the housing tax credit program through the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs for an award an allocation of 2015 lowincome housing tax credit program funds for the construction of 80 affordable housing unit apart apartment units for low to moderate income citizens known as

[0:43:12] Outlook at valy view to be located at 2900 Valley View Boulevard I do want to set some ground rules here uh we've had one meeting in which we allowed public comment and we had a town hall meeting last week in which we allowed public comment and it almost got out of hand and that is not going to happen today we're going to speak one at a time I'll give you three minutes to speak you will come to the microphone you will state your name and you will speak you will not yell out you will not speak over and if anyone in this audience says you are a lying son of a bee like was screamed out in our last meeting I guarantee you I guarantee you you will be unceremoniously removed from this building we're not going to tolerate at we're going to act like mature H mature adults here today we are going to be civil and I'm going to very closely watch this clock at 3 minutes you are through whether you're through or not so I don't want to be hard on this and I apologize for my my demeanor but we are not going to let this go we're not going to let it get out of hand you're going to be civil and the council will be civil as well uh we have taken the $14,000 worth of incentives off the table that is not even in the situation anymore they have they've withdrawn their request the only thing we are talking about this morning is whether we approve the resolution or whether we disapprove the resolution which is saying that we would like to have this thing so with those ground rules in effect I very honestly and sincerely ask that you abide by him and let's keep this thing mature and civil and let's get through this and come to a to a decision on the resolution your floor mayor council uh like you mentioned uh the developer did pull the waiver request U it is now just asking for uh a resolution of support we held a town hall meeting last week uh to provide

[0:45:15] information and to address some of the key issues we had close to 200 local residents uh many who Express concerns over the potential increase in crime uh the impact of low income housing on property values in the area and the projects impact on infrastructure um I asked developer to be here unfortunately I don't see him I think got tied up but we'll be here staff will be here to try to answer some of your questions I do want to remind the public that the city has an ongoing Financial commitment to uh providing affordable housing throughout the city um it is part of our mission and we're asking Council to approve and before we get started let me read the resolution now it's a it's a page long let me just read the last half of it because this is really the meat of the resolution it says now therefore let it be resolved by the city council for the city of St Angelo Texas that the city council for the city of St Angelo adopts the foregoing recital as true as correct and hereby affirms that it supports the application of disinger Development LLC to the housing tax credits program through the Texas Department of Housing Community Affairs for an award and alocation of 2015 competitive 9% HTC program funds for the construction of 80 affordable housing apartment units for low to moderate income citizens known as Outlook of valy view to be located at 2900 Valley View Boulevard in the city of s Angelo and that is the resolution that we're talking about whether we approve or deny so you got the floor again are you through I'm through again I'm asking Council we're here to try to answer some of your concerns or questions and um we'll ask the council to approve it uh does council want to start off with this you want to start off with public comment what's what's the what's the to say one thing yes Rodney I have one thing in point of order I want to make sure that this is done whether it passes or fails correctly on this I think that we

[0:47:17] probably should bring should since they've pulled that one we should ask for uh someone to make a motion to approve this resolution first this would be the first reading I believe right and then we'd have to come back and bring it to another meeting uh I think just one time just one reading okay but it should but even on this someone need does need to make a motion to approve the resolution first I um I guess I'm not understanding you mean to the you think we need to make a we need to either approve or disapprove the resolution first and then then not approve it make make the motion to approve or not approve or disapprove we need motion on the floor before we I think that needs to be done first yeah yeah go ahead and and uh make the motion and uh then there's usually uh some public comment and then discussion amongst the council members deliberation and then a v uh vote on the motion okay start us off I move with that we accept the resolution as presented I'll second you like resolutions don't I like resolutions okay we do have a motion to approve the resolution as presented we do have a second that gives us now the opportunity to open it up to the floor and if Council approves let's go ahead and take public comment first and then we'll have a discussion and make our decision the line forms at the front and I would also ask we know that there's traffic and we know that uh some people don't want these low in comes in their area but after it's been said once everybody doesn't need to come up and say the same thing again we we we can hear it the first time so keep your comments new and fresh so that we get them all please you're up mayor city council I'm Mark White a member of the South Ridge Homeowner Association uh we uh respectfully

[0:49:21] appreciate the opportunity to share our thoughts with you concerning this uh important matter as it impacts our neighborhood um you've seen coming together of a large number of the members of our local community there in the in the uh area that is surrounding where this proposed lwi income facility is uh uh proposed to be built uh we've been uh concerned for many uh different reasons many of the reasons for opposition to this lowincome housing in our area are very valid I'd like to recognize uh a number that are here that uh would all of you who are opposed to this resolution please stand be recognized you have a a significant major majority of your constituents uh councilman that are definitely opposed to this resolution being adopted I would like to verbalize our opposition to your adopting of this resolution thank you for the opportunity to share this with you thank you sir yes ma'am good morning I'm Karen rustman and I live off Valley View I have been to the previous meetings of the the council I have been to the town hall I appreciate everything that you do in your staff but my understanding is the council is to represent the wants and the needs of their constituents as one of Mr Flemings I'm expressing to you as a representative and a voice of mine I do not want this I am concerned as indicated previously the

[0:51:25] infrastructure I'm concerned about that Creek that runs through there the groundwater as defined by the state groundwater is defined as water existing below the land surface in a zone of saturation that is the water which completely fills the interconnected pore spaces of rock and sediment that land as well as the inside of Valley View and college Hills is a flood plane it should not be buil on especially by lowincome housing especially housing multifam that's going to have children running about and playing when flash flooding happens they think it's cool let's sketch on it that's how people get killed I'm concerned about the additional traffic TR I'm concerned about all the items that's been previously notated and you sir I would like for you to truly listen to your constituents leave your choice your feelings to the side this is about us not about you thank you again thank you ma'am Mr Meyers state your name and you have the floor sir name is Craig Meyers I think that it's important to realize that this conversation today is a part of a continuing conversation that's been characterized in the previous meeting in the town hall meeting and other kinds of things and when you look at this there is no factual basis no basis in reality or common sense or fairness to justify denying this that was stated in the public uh meeting last week that uh our housing uh Market is saturated that is

[0:53:32] except for low and moderate income people who we warned the city council some time ago would be suffering because their rental uh costs have gone up from 5600 to $9 and $100 on an 11 and $1,200 income and so first of all you have hired a significantly uh skilled group of Staff people the experts to tell you about the factual data and there is nothing about infrastructure about water pressure about traffic that would preclude having this in this particular neighborhood and there is no uh community in St Angelo that doesn't suffer from old infrastructure and increasing traffic and you have approved rubber stamped program after program project after project with that in mind secondly there's the talk about this being a uh a situation with lowincome people who would contaminate the pristine life of those people who boasted at the last meeting over and over again how much they pay for their houses um they do not have the right to tell other people where they can or cannot live and you cannot support that uh the third thing that we have to realize yes one minute one minute is that the prejudicial statements that characterize lowincome people as being immoral unclean uh is not accurate uh that they don't want to work they're seeking handouts they're the hardworking backbone of this community that keeps everything else running even if you could do without all the CEOs you could not do without the people that keep our retail our Construction running and to tell them that they don't have the right they go to church they are moral as anybody else and you tell them that they don't have the right to live anywhere

[0:55:36] from Southland West um Mr silvus these are your people and Mr vman they're your people and this uh project will be monitored more closely for 15 years than any other project in terms of maintaining the building in terms of the uh finances and the kinds of people who live there nobody else has that based on thank you thank you Craig do I have further public comment on this item you know the drill don't you I do Trish Jordan uh I resent Mr Meers insinuating that uh that we have um that we judge people according to their income at one time or another all of us or most of us unless we were born with a silver spoon in our mouth uh we're low income it's not that have y'all looked at that piece of property have you gone by and physically looked at that piece of property I'm asking the council have you looked at that piece of property yes yes uh Mr White lives on the the kind of the south end of it I know he's had his foundation redone we have Springs underneath South Bridge we know we have Springs underneath that it's not a it's not a good piece of property that one little section right there is not a good piece of property for any building as far as I'm concerned if it was unsafe for a school why would you think that it would be unsafe uh safe for uh residential property and at one time years ago when I very first moved back to S Angelo I contacted Mr White at the parks department thinking that land was not being used uh and maybe perhaps we could do something with it and he said that was that was just it was a mess that it was not uh it would

[0:57:39] not be viable for a park because of the uh aoya going through there the floods and the power lines yet it's okay for for residential building I I don't understand and I really don't understand if you went and looked at that piece of property on a day like today after we've had a little bit just a little bit of precipitation you can see what it does there's no way no matter what kind of structure they put there will be maintained well because the ground sinks it shifts and we have just a lot of lot of drainage problems right there thank you very good point Miss Jordan I appreciate that [Applause] who's next come on up Terry you know the drill Bud okay my name is Terry Campbell and uh I just have uh well first I I emailed my concerns to all of you a couple days ago I hope you got it and read it so I'm not going to go over any of that because you already know my my position okay but there is one particular item I'd like to bring up and that is that it's my understanding that this project is a HUD project and is being administered by the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs therefore it is a federal project am I correct in assuming that Bob it is a federal program however it is not through HUD it's through the um uh Treasury Department and the state monitors and um manages that program thank you okay that gives me the answer I want now I will continue uh Ben that is true uh at the at the town at the town hall meeting we held uh the

[0:59:43] representative stated that they would be doing background checks and screening of all of the prospective renters now if it is a federal program that is illegal because it violates the uh the Discrimination laws for federal housing and I'm I'm done at this point I'll just go set out I just want to let everybody know I am opposed to this recommendation thank you Terry who's next it's the opportunity yes ma'am hi my name is Troy Middleton and I live in Champion Circle I opposed to the project for several reasons and all that have been heard but has anybody looked at the schools our schools are busting at the seams is the school district going to build another school or those children going to be busted to someplace else I just don't think it's fair for them to live in an area that they can't go to school in that's my position another good point thank you come to the front this is your opportunity good morning sir good morning my name is Ray Ubank and I live in the area uh off Grand View and I can only base my concerns on my experience 23 years in law enforcement early on in law enforcement I was a police officer uh here in Texas and the city paid us to work in areas that higher had higher crime rates over time to work in areas that had higher crime rates uh we did that pretty consistently we work foot patrol and bike Patrol not only in those areas that had a crime rates but in this in the area surrounding those higher crime rates and those areas that we were

[1:01:46] paid to work in were the lower income housing projects lower income housing units in the city on all areas of the city all parts of the city north side Southside West side so uh my concern is and the reason we were paid that is because the crime rates were higher in those areas and in the surrounding areas we work put Patrol in in the projects and we work bike Patrol in the areas surrounding the neighborhood surrounding because of the property crimes the thefts the the burglaries um the criminal mischief calls things like that that's the reason we that's the reason we're hired to and paid overtime to work in those areas and that's the reason I have concerns about this is because concerned about the safety when we purchased in that area for that reason because of the lower crime rate uh we pay uh and we do and we do pay a little bit more I it's it's when we when we bought in that area it was uh pretty much at the high end of our budget we really we kind of stretched our budget to be able to live in this area because we wanted that lower crime rate that's just my concern that's the only reason I'm voice of my concern today thank you very much [Applause] and good morning to you good morning my name is Sarah Loki and I just wanted to say that I am an entry or I have an entry level position at ASU so I don't make that much but I'm the type of person that would look into housing in this area if it were to come about so thank you for considering it and I hope that y'all would welcome me into the area thank you ma'am another another excellent point yes ma'am okay I'm Sarah Hardwick again and um there's two laws we live by we love God and we love our neighbors

[1:03:49] and I think this is a attempt at some social engineering and I don't know that it's loving the neighborhood to force this upon the people who live there thank you thank you [Applause] ma'am form a line or close the hearing that's it any further comment if not I'm going to close the public comment we're going to go to councel and I want to say I am closing public comment at this time I want to say thank you very much I appreciate your respect and I appreciate I like the way this went this is this is the mature way to handle business thank you very very much let's open it up to the council now there has been a motion that we approve this resolution as presented it has been seconded start with you Liz uh I have some comments but first I would like to hear from Mr Solace on the the issue of uh background check and and what the the guidelines are for um well I can tell you that uh these programs do conduct background checks it is um it's not one of the protected areas as far as fair housing is concerned so it's certainly not discrimination um that's what I can tell you it's a con it's a standard uh process standard procedure and you know that because you've worked with other oh absolutely DC projects in the city absolutely we had one that uh we got funded uh called through the Black Shear program um and that's exactly what they do they they go through that process that's to ensure that we're getting uh and in fact if you do get someone that has a uh criminal background and you do let them um be a tenant they will actually be uh uh they can be evicted um ddha can write up that facility and um penalize them so that's thank

[1:05:51] you Don you have a comment well I you know I I grew up on 20th Street I grew up real poor and um you know I'm not real rich now but I I look at this as a hand up and not a hand out I uh um you know if this thing was for people that uh are totally subsidized I'd be totally against it I think that most of our city not most many of our city employees uh we were able to to get their minimum wage up to around $21,000 and I'm very proud of that these are the kind of people that would I think take and utilize uh this this opportunity that they have for for a nice place to live my daughter when she started as a first year teacher would have qualified for this program and therefore I'm going to support it short itte I can't support it for the following reasons um it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it's either lwi income or affordable housing because I'm all about affordable housing and safer cleaner decent housing for all walks of life to live in I truly am and wherever they choose to live is up to them and they shouldn't be prevented I firmly believe in that what concerns me about this particular project is the location number one and the reason that that particular area has never been developed if you've been here 40 50 years you know why it hasn't been developed it is a flood area there is underground there's surface water just just barely under the surface that causes the foundations of homes to shift and to give and just a few years ago we had a gentleman bring his pictures of his home where he had a foot and a half wide crack down the middle of his foundation his home was totally non-liable brand new built home but it

[1:07:55] wasn't on an engineered foundation and that caused grave concerns another subject another property but in the same area my concerns that the when the developer brought his placards to show the type of construction and passed out the material the type of material that we constructed by it falls in my opinion Falls far below the standard of construction that exists out there and therefore would not blend in the neighborhood and the best example that I can come to mind is on Green Meadow at the end of Green Meadow some uh storage units went in amongst some brick patio homes right out there and they're metal storage units but the city uh planning department required that there be facing the neighborhood and outside brick fascia so that the property Blended well in the neighborhood and the Builder did so and it does blend well and it does complement it's a good buffer zone before commercial then the warehouses then starts the homes but this particular property and the placards that they showed and the construction materials the homes that are built out there required to be built of a certain square footage uh with four side brick the various composition uh roofs that are there and this construction material did not add an enhancement to the existing neighborhood and that's what I disagree with totally it has nothing to do with the people or the income qualifying or the rents it's just the construction that's being put in the existing neighborhood uh I I can't support it I feel like whenever we as a council are ask to support and to give support So any contractor can Garner more points with the state to get their bid accepted over everyone else's that we should look of all of the aspects the need in the Community whether Properties or

[1:09:57] overbuilt rental units uh the construction the location is it going to be a a site that has Mega Foundation problems and falls in total disarray because of it and have we seen an Engineers report of the foundation the stuff that is going on I haven't seen I wasn't satisfied at at the Thursday meeting is to the construction that it blends with the neighborhood and it it adds or increases the property values and enhancement is out out there I wouldn't support any project that didn't blend with the neighborhood and didn't have that safety feature built in Johnny you know I find myself between a rock and a hard place right now and it's uh you know it's it's kind of tough to sit here and take both sides but I wanted to begin with a uh I'm going to read a message that this uh gentleman wrote to all of us Pete Jr and I actually coached Little League years and years ago and he called me last night and he asked me to read this uh out loud just for for for the public to to know what his feelings were you know over the past couple of weeks there have been meetings there's been over 200 people that voiced their pinion and it it got heated at times and I I I'm really sad to see that it had to get that you know that go that far but Pete writes and this is happens to be one of the constituent for Mrs farmer so this is directed at her but he wanted me to read it read it out loud he he says I had the opportunity to view the City Council meetings on February 3rd and February 12th town hall meeting and that took great he took great offense to the manner in which which you miss former represented yourself these meetings I am Hispanic and for you to use the words Baron ghetto you have insulted this community along with your company of supporters that you were saying in nutshell we don't want your kind in our neighborhood or on our side of the city Look up the word Baron ghetto and look up the word Baron and and the word ghetto and combine them together and see what you get and unfortunately for you

[1:11:58] and your supporters I live on your side of town I'm going to do everything possible to ensure our pastorial community and minority leaders are aware this type of behavior should not be tolerated for our government officials local state or federal level it's too late to retract your comments as they are in video all you and your supporters have done is continue to segregate this community and invite virtual attentions with your hate and words if this is what your church teachings are of being a segre segregated Community then so be it but but I will not stand for it Pete Lopez Jr stt Angelo Texas and I too I feel like having seen some of these photos having seen even the the infrastructure like Miss farmer just mentioned I'm not totally convinced Bob I would hope that LBG ldg would have vetted out uh the land that's there I mean you've got a creek running through it are we going to build some units there that uh a year from now will start falling apart this is one of my issues right now one of my concerns the pictures the previous projects that they've worked on the photos of the Falcon Crest we all got those photos I mean real shoty work that that's been done the only way I would support this if we are we going to vet are we going to inspect every nail that is that is put together to put this facility together is is is where I'm I'm having that TR trouble with swallowing this idea uh I assume they have other projects but the pictures that I'm seing I mean a picture is worth a thousand words and I I would hate for them to spend their money spend the time of the citizens out there that had that are opposed to it and they come up with work like this it it's it's very hard for me to to take in right now so again I'm on the fence right now I wish you would tell me different I wish you would tell me that they went out there and they they dug around the land and they know that they for sure that this type of facility will withstand uh this the creek that runs through it the water the everything that happens negative towards

[1:14:00] this property I would hope that you would tell me different is well I I don't believe they conducted an engineering study per se i' have to defer to the to the developer uh but like any other project they will submit a permit our staff will go out and U they'll vet they'll vet the project like they do you know and you know we have uh um um Engineers they will take a look at that and they we have a group that actually meets and discusses any project it'll be the same process uh it won't be any different um but uh but to answer your question I i' have to defer to uh the developer as far as the engineering study but I don't believe they conducted one and I'm I'm really uh concerned that they're not here today you know he got he got tied up made it he is okay there he is and and Sir yeah state your name but yeah Jason trino LG Mr Trin I'm looking at some pictures of some previous you know I'm not not sure if you are familiar with the Falcon Crest patio homes and all that were built I'm not I've been with the company about 6 months so you what I can answer is limited these are we did conduct a phase one engineering report okay the these not the flood plan okay these have really really left the bad taste in my mouth right now and like I said I'm on the fence and I would hope that you guys would do better than this but these are pretty bad and they kind of hard to take in right now so what are your plan on 6 months that's that's not very long yeah I know so Justin couldn't be here but like I said we did a phase one we wouldn't build on anything that wasn't sound what is a phase one phase one engineering um side assessment so that tells environmental yeah environmental side assessment so that tells us if there's any flood planes or um any issues that would cause us to not be able to build on there and you know we wouldn't spend our money if we didn't feel like this was a good piece of property are you familiar that with the the engineered slabs the foundations the requirements personally I'm not but we have experts that are I could see how that could make this project cost

[1:16:02] prohibitive but that's for you that's for your company to investigate and correct because that that's that exists that requirement exists you know and I've heard stories of homes even uh around the area sinking because of the this flood plane that they're in so I would hope that you guys at least looked into that or yeah we built over 30 properties and like I said we have experts at you know and Consultants Engineers surveyors that we go out and engage to look at all this stuff before they we start construction would you do me a favor and come and grab look at these pictures and tell me have you ever seen anything like that in any of the other projects that you guys have worked on you can go back to the microphone if you want but I mean that that that's really hard for me to to swallow really what exactly are you concerned keep on flipping you see what I mean [Applause] Marty W is flipping do you have any comments on this I've got a question for for Bob uh Bob uh under the application uh I I think we received new information is this moderate to low or is it low these are actually although a developer has as an option to have at mixed income uh he they have chosen to go at at the low income which is 60% of uh area of median income uh with the exception of two units two units will be at market and that's uh that's called to cover certain situations uh so but for the except for those two units it will be low income low and Below okay and and just so I make sure I understand it all of the units will be subsidized uh subsidized in the way they'll just still they won't be subsidized the market the the rents will be set a certain level if you consider that subsidizing but that's what we're talking about setting the rents at a certain level based on the income so people won't be able to be tenants unless they meet the income

[1:18:06] thresholds so then it's the rent so subsidized I I believe you consider that sub subsidizing but U that's what we're talking about it's it's the setting of The R the income cap the income cap yes so Bob they have to meet that and then they have to go through a background check also absolutely yeah absolutely and then you got the young you've got Young Folks like this young lady from ASU this intern that would love live in a place like that but our city employees lot of our city employees would be eligible for these these these units man yes sir deferred maintenance but this is not typical of LG's product at all so if you look on the internet there's several instances of that we're going to we're going to go to Rodney we're doing this one at a time and then we'll go back just heard the two of them speak so it confused me I'm sorry Mayor Marty will you through I was Johnny I'm through thank you Rodney your three well I I I I guess originally I was very much far this resolution and and u i I was under the impression that it was going to be more moderate and not I guess you'd say 94% or 96% low um I have I have one in my district and and um I guess my my greatest concern about the whole thing is I I was on the council when when we decided to build the the the the Bradford uh unit uh and uh I was very much opposed to that so that that's kind of got me on the fence and uh I guess I'm kind of concerned that it's a that it's it's so low and not mixed more that's the option that the uh developers they make that decision the rule is 40% of the units have to be at

[1:20:11] 60% or lower or you can have 20% of the units at 50% of income Ami or below those are two options uh but those are the minimums but Developers for the most part try to exceed those minimums to get points obviously it's the the more units you have uh the better it scores so that's why you want to have as many of the 60% or lower in that project uh but there's nothing that keeps them from uh going into a mixed income where you can have open market units and a lot of them the bigger cities do that uh very successful um in doing that um well you have a lot of only 40% are are low low income where the 60% are our open market so that that mix that mix works that mixture works pretty well in a lot of cities uh but in this case this this unit this project is strictly a low income with with exception of two units okay thank you Rodney a couple questions for you Bob one um Charlotte had mentioned about the city requiring someone to go in on a piece of property and and finish it out the way that uh certain way with so so much masonry or Rock product or something like that is that is that true the city can't do that I I I don't think so that's that's their that's their design not our design it's their design and this building one thing Miss farmer said at the last meeting she said that this was these were frame buildings they're not it's 100% masony Hardy Board construction is that correct sir that's correct so they're considered 100% masonry product on all the buildings because they are a Hardy Board construction which is a cement composite board um it's very very common in Southland actually a lot of i' say the majority of the houses over there have probably three sides brick and a lot of them have the the rear of them is Hardy Board construction if you look throughout the neighborhood over there no no it's considered masonry 100% when you do that though uh is that correct

[1:22:16] Patrick well I I was going to answer to previous uh question that was asked about the uh design guidelines uh for for property commercial properties that are 25,000 ft or or greater we require what we call Urban Design review um the standards are fairly loose however the staff does have the ability to make suggestions about the facade and the like and so there aren't design guidelines that uh apply generally across the board for Residential Properties although I would love to have that be the case um certainly in the historic district we have purview via the design review commission to look at facade improvements but other than commercial buildings there are 25,000 ft or more we don't we don't have design standards typically a builder may have their own standards regarding uh facades and the like but the city does not have a any kind of standards as it relates to residential or commercial for that matter other than the the larger structures okay and one thing that I want to get back to and just make my point one more time on this this is that the zoning has been in place there since 1983 is that correct that's correct for an apartment complex so this this property in my opinion will eventually be that whether these guys do it or someone else does it um when you talk about the engineering and the springs and things over there Engineers are brought in on the project to design buildings and structures that fit on the property that they're on a lot of those houses and I do realize and I I've actually seen them especially in South Ridge a lot of the builders did not build those houses correctly in those areas uh they didn't use post engine cable slab and they probably weren't engineered they just scraped the ground and threw down a slab and that was it and that's why they had a lot of failure when you're talking about a project of $9.8 million I think they're probably going to do their due diligent and have a lot of engineering put into this because they the last thing they want is to have a slab Foundation a slab failure on their foundation so that's

[1:24:21] that's what I'm looking at on that the next thing when we're talking about a total of they have an option on 20 acres this property is on 13 something Acres but you have an option on 20 acres when we talked about the 20 acres and Patrick had mentioned this you could put as many as 25 U Apartments per acre on the 20 acres total you're looking at 500 a possibility of 500 Apartments on that property as opposed to the 80 on the 13 when I'm looking at that and I'm sitting there weighing that both ways and looking at it I'm sitting there thinking 80 is way better than 500 that's just a common sense thing when you're talking about infrastructure and how it's going to weight down the infrastructure 80 is going to be way better than than 500 so that's where I'm coming from on that that's all I have get ready well let me weigh in on mine I voted against this last time because I didn't want to give anyone from out of town something that we don't give our local Builders and they were asking for $14,000 in concessions that's been pulled off the table now now they're asking for a resolution and we don't give those to our local Builders and I I can't support anything that we give to an out Town company to come in here that we don't give to our local Builders now just is just as Rodney says this is already zoned for this this family and it was there long before any view built and and bought it was way before your development so this has been this area it's been it it's been Z for this for years and years and years my opinion is that y'all are big boys and you can do whatever you're big enough to do but you don't need my help to come in and give you something that I wouldn't give to my local builders that said I think there are better places in town to build this than where you're looking and I understand that probably in the next meeting or two there will be another development com in here for a same type of location out in Lake View where we already have four of these

[1:26:25] and I'm sad to say it but I believe that probably the renters would be happier living in an area where they were not hated or despised or not wanted and hope the renters will not be accepted in this area ever just because of what it is so uh that kind of covers it I don't want to I'm not going to give anybody resolution I'm going to start over with Liz we go back down the road thank you mayor for remembering this into the table um Bob remind me of something that has to do with these um Apartments once there is a rener that qualifies for the the income cap in perpetuity does that apartment have to fall under that income cap I believe it does uh but let me pass it on to what was a question I'm sorry the one once they get in at 60% and they get raise for example they stay in that unit after they get we have the ability to push them to Market rent so we can determine the rents after that so we can terminate the amount they're getting for the 60% but we can't terminate tency just because they increase their income corre they leave they come back it goes back to where it was right correct they wouldn't qualify at that point so the unit is is perpetually at that level how however the person can exceed that but once they leave the next person has to be at that level has to be vetted at that income there's a lot there's a lot of nuances within this program that we'll never know and the public will never know because they don't work with it on a daily basis but it's amazing how this a project can start out and receive incentive through tdhca as a low-income project and actually transition to a a market or potentially a mixed income

[1:28:28] facility I'm like you though I'd prefer to see our city um provide incentive or letters of recommendation or um support like that for mixed income projects in the future but I I hope that after this mayor we might get to talk about a policy you know going forward when we're not in the the round itself just one comment just so it's clear we hire local Engineers we hire local people to help construct U we don't bring those in from Austin or Louisville these are all local that's very smart of you because we have you have you've heard of some soil conditions out there that can be extremely problematic and many of these homeowners are dealing with them um Bob can you explain one more time um how the income cap Works relative to the income of the median income in St Angelo it there's a um the way it works is HUD sets the u based on the area median income in s Angelo it's 56,000 for example they stratify the income um limits if you will from anywhere from 80% of Ami down to 30% of Ami those are the Strat of the air the levels that programs compete for for example Habitat for Humanity they work towards the 30% and lower the city HUD works at 80% and lower these work at 60% and lower so there's variety of programs section 202 there's a ton of affordable housing programs that are covered but the cap but the limits are set every year they increase based on the Ami which is the area Med income again uh as that moves up those levels move up I'm sure that answered your question it did um I have been supportive of these projects in my prior professional life and I said at the last meeting I will

[1:30:32] continue to be a supporter of of housing programs for all individuals um I don't believe that you should be penalized based on your income or your place in life I think that housing is uh is important to all income levels just like I do believe public education is so um again my personal and professional ethic uh has me wanting to support this I will say though as the mayor mentioned I think after the previous hearings and discussions I'm not going to be so interested in the future in financially incentivizing these over other projects because I think the public has made an excellent point that perhaps um the deferral of of building permits is not necessary but I do respect the fact that developers don't necessarily look to provide housing for low or low to moderate income people without some incentive from the state and that is why this uh this program exists whether it's um existed under a Democratic governor or our Republican Governors it's been a a constant for many years in our state so I appreciate the information you've given I think there's been a lot said and I'm like the mayor I'm very pleased that we've had a very respectful conversation this is not easy for us we've had calls on both sides my best friends are very opposed uh have opposing views on this some very supportive um f some very against but I believe in the long term that um St Angelo is a a loving and tolerant place and that um we should again be respectful of those who um for whatever reasons are finding ually less fortunate and give them the hand up thank you further comments done no Charlotte yes uh I wanted to clarify something U Mr silus I did get the email

[1:32:36] that you referred to in my comment about Baron ghetto and with that statement I made the reference Barren to me meaning unfruitful or unusual or a being abandoned and ghetto being properties that are inhabitable and and I use that term due to the slab problems which I stated at that time that the soil's out there and without an engineered slab that I feared that it would become a baron ghetto made no reference in any part of what I said with Hispanic people in general I just wouldn't do that didn't happen the other item I did say would like and I made that reference uh because I couldn't come up with the word Hardy Board and I used it when I said it such as what was at vent Tre the wood like sighting that is what I said because the pictures the formats that we provied didn't have the word Hardy Board on there for me to read from and I couldn't come up with it that quick the other thing I wanted to do was clarify the fees even at the town hall meeting the developer backed off of the fees and if you read the minutes of our last two Council meetings not the last meeting but the prior meeting the fees were approved on a 52 vote I need clarification I guess from legal staff since the fees were approved already to be waved even though the developer has backed off on them what do we do at this point uh because of that approval went through if you read the minutes two meetings ago on a 52 vote the fees were approved doesn't have to be ratified doesn't have to come back for set second reading or anything because it's not an ordinance and that was the vote at the time so how do we handle it at this point with them saying they want to back off off the fees uh the city clerk is uh just checking those minutes to make sure that we're are specific on what the motion was and maybe he can read that back to the council be before we vote I would

[1:34:41] like for I have read it and I've read it in the minutes and it was approved with only the mayor and I descending on the fees so that was the meeting prior to the last meeting when we postponed the resolution portion till we could have a town hall meeting is the way I read the minutes and I just need to understand how we proceed at this point with that to assure the citizens even though it was brought up and approved how do we go about revoking that vote are you thinking a vote a vote to do so I don't know I'm asking but I want clarification in the minutes because it's in the minutes now is approved okay we we'll have the minutes read back um you could amend the mo motion to uh adopt the new resolution that does not have the waiver in it and to have that resolution supersede your previous resolution so it would be a resolution um uh to adopt the new resolution uh to supersede the resolution voted on at the last meeting but I would like to I would like to read those minutes because I'm I I think that would be important read I believe that the first time we came out we didn't have a resolution ready we just had we asked for conceptual approval for the fees that's what we asked for yes resolution it was done the resolution came later y'all want to take a minute while they're looking this up and take let's take about a 15minute break while they're looking that up got it wait you got it the motion was made to approve waving the fees as presented made by council member Fleming seconded by council member silvus uh pass 52 52 so we will have to we probably have to what I was asking for at the beginning of this is I thought that we should kill that and then possibly vote on the other award we can do that we can do that at any time we can kill it y'all want to go and finish this you want to take a break

[1:36:45] okay John do you have any further words I think one comment that was made a while back is if we had not even mentioned the word low income we would be here or not you know and that and and that that's kind of sad that it we've come to this point if it had not been labeled low income would would we be here or not debating this thing so that that's really what it's still Zone Z it wouldn't have never come before that was my question so well I I the I I wasn't here to the last meeting which um I was out of town so I I guess so I didn't hear everything last meeting I I've read the the minutes but um I guess my I guess my question has come to to me now in my own mind um are we supposed to be basing our our our boat on where it's located what it's built out of what what ground it's what ground it's going to be put on um do we support affordable housing or or lowincome housing uh what exactly I mean I'm in support of of of everyone having affordable housing you know and and for the like I said I I went from extreme left to extreme right and and what exactly is our vote supposed to be based upon I guess I'm asking according to the agenda the vote is whether we approve or disapprove the resolution that we are in let me read it again that we are in support and that's the word it used affirms that it supports the application

[1:38:48] of disinger development through the Texas Department of Housing for an award and allocation the resolution is do we support the resolution to give them these points or do we not support and that's really all we have correct to look at today now your reasons for the for denying or accepting the resolution are your own so that's what you use to make up your mind but the only thing we're talking about is do we agree do we allow or we disallow the resolution it's really quite simple no may I say something May let's get see if Rodney and then we'll go back around Rodney last thing on on this when we're talking about affordable housing throughout the city and we're going to have this come up I believe in two weeks on the on the North side with another company a couple things one I'm going to vote for it each time it comes up affordable housing it doesn't matter if it's on the North side south east or west I'm going to vote for it because I'm in favor of that and I think I see it every day I know how how thin it is right now for affordable housing there there's not hardly any out there at all so I'm going to vote for that when it does come up in two weeks for that company also the mayor had said that uh that we we would he wouldn't vote for anything on this that we wouldn't give to our local people but I our local people aren't applying for this because probably because they don't have or they're not willing to do $9.8 Million worth of investment or try this I think if they did come and they did come before us I'd vote for them too i' to give them the resolution for sure sure so I think that whatever companies do come and it's mostly bigger companies because they're the ones that can afford to do projects of this size so I I'm for affordable housing throughout the city no matter where it is and I will Vote for This resolution every time I'll vote against the resolution every time hey you cut you hey we're back to the I thought you were going to let me speak before he spoke I get the last word and then I go back to you I have my words also do yes okay I will

[1:40:53] against the resolution this time and next time because I don't think I don't approve of the resolution and we had a resolution a couple of meetings ago and it was disastrous so resolutions I'm not for Resolutions and as far as the drainage my dad-in-law used to trap CW dads out in this area so I know what it's like miss grindstaff you know have the floor oh mayor I don't need it anymore Don did you have anything further Charlotte I I agree uh Marty I for affordable housing and and it to me the resolution says we as a city support this particular group the particular project and the location for the overall betterment of the community for the city that's what a resolution says to me so all of those items would have to have a check mark by it for me to agree to the resolution and because I'm I cannot support the developer because of information that I can readily pull up I know that we've got numerous apartment complexes that are fixing to come online which is going to put about another 700 units in the market for the saturation not all of them in the city go by the rain maker Market rates and I'm sure you're familiar with the rain maker Market rates do you all use the rain maker system no ma'am okay the the rain maker system is they take whatever is the highest and the best rate out in the state and set their rates to and that makes it not affordable for us regular working people out there to try to pay rain maker Market rates so that's why I am for affordable housing but all of the factors have to go together the construction the location the availability in the city for me to endorse the resolution and I won't endorse the resolution for those reasons further comments Johny voting for this resolution would be the voting or not voting for the

[1:42:55] resolution is the same as voting for the project is that what you're saying no no it's just the resolution they're taking this resolution to the to the state and this will give them points that will help them in their being accepted being accepted or not accepted it does not kill a project it does not make the project it is simply to give them points B based on the other applicants that we're competing against more than likely this will determine whether or not the project goes forward or not okay not 100% but 90% and furthermore there was a proposed uh facility built over here right on the other side of the bridge here going out towards Texas par complex that got derailed at the time another one came up so I I would welcome something like this over here I see it as as an upgrade to to to the neighborhood and you know what I'm talking about absolutely it's a for Contra area yes I so I I just want to throw that in just further words Marty none Rodney none anybody else on the council want to speak Liz no but thanks for asking if there's no further comment there is a motion that has been made and seconded that we approve this resolution as presented we've taken public comment and we've had three rounds of council comment I am now calling for the vote all in favor of the resolution raise your hand all all opposed to the resolution raise your hand we have a 43 vote to approve the resolution do we now need a motion to to abolish what we did last time and to change the the fees um this resolution does not have in kind support in the way of waving the fees so as far as what goes to Texas housing there's no in kind support um direct St to know had the vote already well um it's not actually on the agenda for a

[1:45:00] separate vote so this motion wasn't amended so I would just suggest putting it on the next agenda how about if we if you want to redo it again and put that this motion will supersede all others can we do it that way Dan sounds good well I would hesitate to do that what what do we do if the vote comes out different let's let's just put it on the next meeting we're not following a reconsideration put it on the next put on the next meeting just for that and that way we'll give the 72-hour notice that we deny any any okay we get that way and I yes yes okay can it is 10:47 and I'm calling a 15-minute break all right it is 1111 and I'm calling this meeting back to order we are now ready for number 11 which is presentation of the quarterly report from the Chamber of Commerce Economic Development Council and the convention and visitors bureau CVB presentation by CVB vice president Pamela Miller vice president Mr Michel Looney and I suppose she's giving you the go ahead to go first that is why I came running up here she said go okay I'm on three minutes we'll keep this under three because I got the rules given to me big time a little while ago uh thank you all very much this is our fourth quarter kind of rounding it out uh one of the mandates that we've been given is uh really deeply increasing the collaboration between cadc and the chambers Economic Development Division uh that is working extremely effectively I'm spending at least 50% of my time over at their offices uh the cohesiveness is excellent um and uh we're obviously as I said keeping a permanent office there and that's worked really really uh well in using time spent at the chamber offices which is a a natural magnet for developers and businesses coming into uh town uh and then immediately finding out what their

[1:47:02] needs are and getting them over to the BRC so Roland and Bob and Nora and I can sit down with them and figure out what we need to do next so that's working out really well and also working really closely with our partners at Workforce it's very important and I'll get to a little example of that in a minute um we are uh currently uh engaged what what I'm doing uh along with my my chamber stuff my chamber duties is working on a targeted list of Industries uh within the 16 nakes codes uh tranch so we're out there pedaling uh the city the quality of life obviously and um it's going very well um I don't have a report yet on all of the different companies that I'm working with right now because it would be premature to do so but that is underway and has been for uh several months um we are currently working with a couple companies I can tell you about um we're currently working with a heavy equipment company um that they do a lot of heavy road construction and Earth moving equipment this is really really large stuff they don't sell it necessarily they actually rent it they lease it um we are currently work they from out of state uh we're talking to them about a couple of properties in the area uh including the U the industrial park another company that we're working with is 150 person approximate 150 person contact center that's also it's actually on the Eastern Seaboard and uh they're looking as at us as one of six markets um and we're waiting for a time when they can come out fly a team out and take a look at some of our facilities and then the last one uh that I can talk about is an artisanal um organic Dairy food producer from out of state uh that we're currently working with as well uh they would hire approximately 10 people initially uh the heavy construction equipment company would be about 15 to 17 and these are uh good paying jobs with that particular company um uh we've got some outof region companies that we've been able to uh bring in uh one of which is an energy

[1:49:04] brokerage firm that uh just came into town a couple of weeks ago we're currently in the process of helping them look for real estate uh they just hired seven people and they have a goal of 20 to 25 these are very very good paying W2 jobs uh and they are um uh very aggressive Rive about bringing in as many white collar jobs as they can handle um and uh as you some of you may know uh I appreciated uh your uh your energetic support of that uh others other is a full service home builder and Commercial contractor that's coming in from out of the region and uh we're going to be making an announcement with them to the Press uh in about two or three days so um one of the things that's worth mentioning is the business retention and expansion program um Bob schneeman has been really instrumental in taking a a leadership position one of the things that we've done with bre everybody understands I think you what bre is uh where obviously we're we're treating a company that's local that's here that's a legacy company or even maybe a young company that may need some help as and we treat them as if they're coming in out of out of state um one of the things that Bob did which was really uh I think really sharp really smart is that he made sure that all of our different partners and stakeholders know what we can offer uh what can be done uh what are some of the things that that we we can't do necessarily uh as part of um a prescript prescribed program and that would be there are certain uh incentives there are certain uh things that we can do to help existing companies that would just be a staff decision and then there are obviously some things that would have to come before you and so we've had those meetings with all of our partners and we feel confident that everybody body is uh well versed in in what they can speak about when they go out and talk to to variety of companies um we are currently um underway with the final version of the website uh and aerial flyovers for the business and Industrial

[1:51:07] Park that's a screen grab um where we have uh a UAV flying over the park for U approximately 10minute segment and you can go forward and backwards and look at different sections so if you were looking at a certain area let's say five or six or 10 acre area you can actually fly above it and search around and look and see where your different Ingress and egress points would be and so that is underway almost finished uh that includes the the marketing materials on surveys availabilities utility availabilities power uh uh necessary uh water lines that's all been put together and uh we're going to be probably going to publishing in a couple of weeks on that uh first and for for most we wanted to get the uh study done though for the certification um which is going to be kind of the once we get that done it's going to really help us launch off a really really aggressive positive campaign on uh a very really really high-profile online marketing pitch uh to regional and local companies uh certification of the park almost 70 uh% complete uh then kind of to wrap it up I'm going to going to sort of hurry it up here because you haven't hit my timer yet but I'll bet I have a minute left uh we uh represented uh I say we I I uh did a joint uh marketing mission in uh last quarter with Steve eustus local commercial real estate broker we were at the ICC Dallas Texas conference um we were there with approximately 993 different uh uh conventioners booths about 35% were either Economic Development corporations or Chambers of Commerce so we were in good company um and we had approximately 220 visits and that resulted in currently three different retailers uh who are interested in the city and one apartment

[1:53:09] developer um and we're currently working with them and and of course when those those transactions get to a little bit more of a mature stage we can divulge them publicly um but anyway that was basically our little fourth quarter report appreciate you guys letting me have a chance to uh show you what we did and if you have any questions happy to answer them questions councel for Mr Dy Don what what do you mean by the certification of the park is approximately 70 sure certification is actually a it's a it's a it's a program which uh not very many industrial and business Parks actually have and um I can't remember the exact um uh company that's that's doing the certification Roland Peña who may be with us might know Roland is Roland back here no Roland's not here anyway um we can get you some more information on that I'll send you guys an email and give you some more background but Roland and Bob are currently in the process of conducting that with a company uh that makes sure that the property meets International requirements for a a okay a in Industrial Development so you've certified that you've got the correct KVA power you've got the correct infrastructure for the water and so you don't have to basically sell a company and they hope that you have done all your homework before they buy a piece of property once it's certified they're confident that everything that they're going to need is there or can be had in place okay good deal thank you any other questions for Michael good job very well thank you all very much I certainly do appreciate do I have any public comment anyone want anyone has have a question for Michael before he sets down Miss Pamela thank you Michael thank you sir good

[1:55:17] morning or almost afternoon I'm here to give the fourth quarter or endof year reports for the St Angelo convention and visitors bureau during that last quarter we assisted with 19 you are Pamela Miller I am Pamela Miller we assisted with 19 conventions meetings or sporting events projected attendance of 5,620 people Rite projection 2,492 average length of stay was three days and total economic impact 6,276 230 at the end of the year from our visitor sign in books we saw that our top city for visitation to our Visitor Center was Houston once again this year we know a lot of that is um oil and gas generated also um there are our top 10 um the top five being Houston followed by San Antonio Odessa abalene and Midland we had 9,65 out of town visitors who registered our advertising um we had all four areas this time print billboard online and television our print we did um all of those normal Texas Publications that I talk about each quarter our Texas highways Texas monthly Etc but we also um had an annual uh reprint or renewal on the Texas sport Sports Guide the state of Texas tourist guide and the tmcn annual piece we also had a c Texas first newspaper insert which actually started in September with the final part of it in October and that went into 13 major Texas newspapers four newspapers in Louisiana one in baluy Mississippi two in Oklahoma um and one in Albuquerque New

[1:57:22] Mexico and that insert had just under a million in circulation so that's always a good one for us at the end of the year we had received 26,5 five requests for further information from our print advertising and we do um actually have 30,000 fulfillment brochures for our print advertising so our numbers are in sync there in billboard we went up the Monday of Thanksgiving so that we could capitalize on that busy travel week and then ran for a month with holiday billboard in Midland Brownwood lck abene and Brady our online is a new program for us which has targeted online video commercials when you go to a website and you have to watch a video before you look at what it is you went to the website for um we're doing a lot of that we're concentrating a lot around the San Antonio Bernie area with that also we had advertising on tour Texas our TV was Texas Country Reporter we had our final month was October for that contract was a two-year contract of being a top Texas town we had media visits um and or inquiries from Texas highways magazine triaa California triaa Texas and the Western writers association of America we also completed our first ever Sports video and we're going to be getting a hard copy of that over to the city so they can put that on the city website they helped us with uh putting some of that together also Pamela excuse me what is that a sports video what what is that um well we have a regular promotional video that shows all the great things that there are to do in St Angelo well now we've put one together that's Sports oriented has professional sports has little league has shows our field shows our facilities and it's just a teaser uh

[1:59:27] that we put on there to try to get the sports planners to come to Stan Angelo um trade shows that we went to this quarter included the Texas state fair we participated in that with the Texas forts Trail the Albuquerque Balloon Festival we participated in that as part of Team Texas ymrc which is your military reunion connection and we get to meet with a lot of planners that do all kinds of areas of the military reunions so those are a lot of fun and we seem to get a lot of interest at those shows the Texas Municipal League the team's Sports conference that's where we meet with those Sports planners we've already have three different pieces of business that we're looking at from that conference and of course we attended the Lucas Oil Nationals that were in Phoenix our top five out of state um for The Visitor Center was California number one New Mexico Florida Oklahoma and Colorado we did have somebody at the visitor center from every single state Plus Puerto Rico and 31 other countries last year um these are our top five International Canada followed by United Kingdom and that's that's pretty normal for us we this year sponsored the pencils for the surveys for the koncho Christmas celebration the Christmas lights and we wanted to sponsor the pencil so that everybody would really be encouraged to fill out those surveys and uh you know a lot of times they don't have a pen in the car so uh we hoped it made a difference it did the survey returns were up 10% this year over last year out of 15,192 cars we had 7,219 surveys returned I person personally went through every single one of those um that's a 47.83% return which is awesome 26% of the folks were from outside of St Angelo

[2:01:32] 74% were in town there were 268 other Texas cities 30 other states and the country of Mexico for those that told us about where they stayed uh room nights for hotels were 572 for camping 221 and there were uh extreme amounts that stayed with uh friends and relatives top visitation within Texas this is for the Christmas lights came from these areas uh you'll note that the ones that are bolded those are the areas where we had the Billboards and so that's really for my benefit I wanted to see how those bbo Billboards did um with the exception of Del Rio we put Del Rio in there because we had month-long advertising in Del Rio this year in the new paper to capitalize on that shopping market that we get from that area the hotel update Thanksgiving weekend we opened the Candlewood Suites so that gave us 221 new room nights in 2014 we have 534 more rooms scheduled to open in 15 it looks like the next one to open will be the renovation of the Pearl on the honcho and we had a meeting with a gentleman from Hyatt Place who believe it or not says he's bringing another one that hasn't started yet and um he's aiming for 2016 for that property and has at least submitted his initial plans at the end of the year the year to date our occupancy was at 67.4% and our average daily rate was $110.42 occupancy was down 9.9 % so just under 10 and the average daily rate was up 6.6% still up but coming down pretty consistently any questions I can answer I have one Marty

[2:03:36] um I think there's 13 cities you have listed there uh and you said the uh the five and bold are the ones that would put Billboards in or how how is is that the only cities we did for Billboards uh well let me take that back we also did abene and that one did not show we had a lot of people from abalene but it didn't show up in the top and we also did one that was really a county it was Lano County so it wouldn't have you know there were a lot in that area but it would wasn't necessarily a city okay thank you and we we've made some changes in the past on our Billboards by what these surveys tell us so we get a lot of good information I me that's why we go through over 7,000 of them but we'll do pencils again next year because I like that kind of rate of return it's very good you should have had a slide with the billboard what it looked like I should I should have and actually in the in the full packet that you all get there is some copies of some of the advertising I do not believe I had the billboard in there but I could sure mail you one Johnny is that the only advertising you do for the the lights the Christmas lights oh no oh we do everything else that I mentioned had a some kind of a holiday component to it our video we had a holiday oriented video we did uh Texas highways Texas monthly in fact in Texas monthly we we normally do a third page ad but for Holiday we do a full page and we have a feature so there's a story about us and then we have a page of advertising that we had I believe it was five Co-op advertisers along with us good job anything else further questions I have a question in general um I I see what you do on a quarterly basis and and kind of what your strategy is who you're hitting but how does a local entity and I'll just pick the fort how do they do

[2:05:42] they have to apply to you for advertising for an event or how is that coordinated we usually what we try to do CU you could never cover everything that happens in the city we try to cover those events that are the larger events that are most apt to bring visitors to our area because that's our job head in beds so which of those are we going to bring so the Billboards for example we had um Christmas at Old Fort Concho the Christmas Concho celebration and we also put in their Michael Martin Murphy concert um because we learned at the trade shows we were at there's a following that go travel to see Michael Martin Murphy wherever he goes and so um we try to pick you know you only have so much room on a billboard so what do we think those top three are going to be and then we try to uh so we're not consistently doing the same people we try to move it around a little but we do try to make sure that it's ones that will bring people to stay in the hotels does that make sense yes thank you okay questions thank you so much thank you Pamela all right it is now time for number 12 and I don't believe we're quite ready for 12 I don't see Tina pardon me let's move on then to number 14 and we'll come back and pick up 12 and 13 after Tina gets her information number 14 is the second public hearing and consideration of an ordinance annexing to the S Angelo city limits of certain property situated immediately North Northeast of s Angelo generally located on the northwest corner of the old Ballinger Highway and US Highway 277 pacifically described is 175 Acres of a 501 327 acre track out of the J Poland survey 3 abstract number 5130 J poet survey 1113 abstract 4873 and Ja eagleson survey 2 abstract

[2:07:47] number 4984 and the Olen subdivision recorded volume H page 539 District Court minutes Tom Green County Texas as described in exhibit a attached Rebecca Gara you do have the floor ma'am good morning mayor city council Rebecca Gara planning manager item 14 is the second reading of the annexation ordinance for what we are referring to as the block annexation it's 175 acre parcel located on the northwest corner of US Highway 277 in Old Ballinger it is in the etj but if annexed it will be uh brought into Precinct I'm sorry it is in the etj in Precinct 3 Rick bacon um commissioner Rick Bacon's um District but if brought into the city it will be in the single member district for Council um councilman vman's District future land use designation of this site is industrial as is the properties to the north to the west and to the South because it's in the etj there is no zoning um but if brought into the city will automatically receive a ranch and estate zoning District designation the zoning districts immediately to the South our Ranch in state notifications were done and were redone as a result of coming here in January um all of the mailers were sent out and the public notification in the newspaper was also done we have received no responses from that latest both mailing certified mailing and publication here's a utility map which is also found in your staff reports major ther plan which is also found in your staff reports thank you you're very welcome ma'am here is a copy of the annexation plan which was asked for by councilwoman farmer um as you can see the subject site um is designated by those three colors you can see a dark green a medium green and a light green um the two the three colors that are represented are

[2:09:50] intermediate uh immediate and longterm so the action requested today is to approve the proposed 175 annexation 175 acre annexation and adopt the annexation ordinance on second reading this concludes staff's presentation we're available for any questions you may have just kind of as a clarification on this uh this is going to be a sand fracking operation and I have met with the people that's putting this thing in uh my concern was water but they say they're not going to use the water uh they say that they will pave the area which will take care of the Dust they also say that by putting this sand fracking out there they will be able to take approximately half of the trucks off of Hughes and coalwell to me this is a wonderful it's it's a great situation I'm 100% for it uh they will be coming back to us with a heavy commercial Zone request so I think heavy manufacturing heavy manufacturing so think that Council does need to realize for them to do anything with this they can't do it in r& so they will be coming back to us with uh with heavy manufacturing and we need and I am all in favor of heavy manufacturing let's get these sand plants out on the edge of town that way we don't have the traffic problems we don't have the dust problems and we don't have citizen problems as we have had in another location so that's kind of a something did I tell everything did I tell it true it's what I wanted to hear so that's kind of a summary of this uh I'm going to open it up to public comment for anyone that would like to come forward either proponent or opponent don't we need a motion motion yeah I move to approve as presented second okay I do have a motion to approve got ahead of myself there sir motion to approve do have a second state your name and Marshall hu yes sir uh my wife's family owns the property the block property that's under consideration I re recommend that you do not Annex the property to the

[2:11:55] city um wow puzzle faces look at the uh there's some there's some ways to cooperate to make this thing work even better for everybody if it's not in the city uh first of all the the the family is apprehensive in that it gets annexed and then these guys Pentacles an or somebody else decides not to do it we got Farmland in city limits and there's nothing to guarantee that going build this project first concern second issue a matter of cooperation um if it is not in the city limits then the uh we can go to the county the county can go to the state and we can get some grants to create infrastructure for this property and that's going to be a major expense for this property of running we don't need the the water the sewer but if we get enough employees and we're talking about uh jobs here and we're talking about infrastructure in developing the city of s Angelo so if we get enough people at the site then the local supply of water and septic is not going to be adequate for TCEQ they're going to come in and say you connect to a Municipal Water District or Municipal Water System or create your water supply corporation which has a whole lot of other ramifications so if we get enough people to go to work out there and operate this facility then we've got to have the water and the sewer that really don't need for the operation in a small basis but the more and more employees we get there and there other developments uh plan for this area uh the more infrastructure we're going to have to have and if we're not in the city limits we can get grants from the state based on these employees and create the jobs created

[2:13:59] and build the infrastructure so the city doesn't have to build it or participate in building it the developer doesn't have to do that uh we can get state grants do this once that infrastructure there once the plant's built the city has every right to come back and take it based on the existing agreement you don't have to take it now you can take it any time in the future so my appeal to you is let it be built with the understanding that um we're going to get some grant money try to get some grant money to build the infrastructure and then once it's built in operation and has value to the city tax revenue value it's not a drain on resources if nothing happens there then um then take it at that time at a future time my appeal to you my recommendation is not not Annex the property Dan how long can we hold a second reading open I mean because this if we don't if we don't approve this on a second reading that's where we are right now that's my request how old how long can we hold it open there's a time limit for the annexation to take place how many I don't I don't know how many days that is okay um may not be able to answer that that question um th this property is under a development agreement which postponed annexation for up to 45 years however if there was an application for development or subdivision then um which there has been then uh the um agreement provides that the property owner is consenting to the annexation so you're not looking at you know you do have property owner consent as as far as postponing this um I don't know of any reason that you couldn't postpone it I know you can't do it indefinitely and I I believe there's a time limit uh for once annexation is commenced you know within which to

[2:16:03] complete the the annexation we're going to do this dance again members of council I wanted to um go ahead and show you this annexation map plan again the one that was approved by city council as you can see the subject property um which is right here is designated as both being immediate and intermediate so the immediacy would have been between the first five years that this plan was adopted more than 10 years ago so according to our own plan this property was scheduled to be annexed voluntarily or involuntarily we entered into an agreement saying that because um there was no non-residential or non-agricultural um uses being proposed on the site we would hold off any annexation but the second the moment that any of those uses were contemplated both the property owner agreed and the city agreed that the property would be brought in with the owner's consent for annexation so that was a signed developers agreement that was brought in but as you can see on the map before you um this property was slated for immediate annexation and intermediate within between 5 and 20 years which almost 20 years has passed since this plan was adopted um for annexation so um in terms of consent consent has been given by the property owner through that developers agreement for any use other than agricultural or single family residential and our own annexation plan has identified it both for immediate and intermediate annexation coming into the city so you're saying if they do anything on this property other than form and R the the agriculture that it has now that by consent we will Annex them by consent and the property owner has agreed to it and was made party to that developers agreement so they signed on to that if he does anything out there other than what's happening right now which is agricultural he belongs to the city or a single family residential dwelling unit

[2:18:05] yes sir who's who submitted the original application in November for annexation uh only the property owner may do so so block Mr Block who is the representative of the trustee no other individual can do that unless they sign it away as agent authorization okay so according to what you're saying here is that if he tries to go out for development grants is the county the first time he scoops of dirt out there to pour mud or anything he is in the city any permit that has tried to be pulled with any government entity would trigger that developers agreement I don't know that you plan to work Mr he when was that signed Rebecca yes sir sorry I did hear a question I apologize when when was the developer agreement executed you give me one moment I will look it up cuz it's part of your said it before I'm just not it is I'm just don't remember right now give me one second almost 20 years ago it was filed yes in 2011 no man I'm totally confused y'all want to y'all want to put this y'all want to put pull this pull this and put it off for a meeting or I want to discuss it one one more comment if I may still again Marshall Hing um an interpretation of the development agreement says the city May Annex the property if something commercial goes on it paraphrasing doesn't say you have to it says you may and the owner gives consent to do so if you will uh at any time you can do that there's not say at again I'm not a lawyer I'm paraphrasing I don't have in front of me but I believe if you'll give it a liberal interpretation or a actual an actual interpretation it says that the the city May Annex it and the and the owner gives his consent he's not

[2:20:09] going to oppose it um but it doesn't give a specific time period I just think there's a way to cooperate with all the physical capabilities that are out there to develop this property to help the city's tax base to help City's employment uh to help this company in in sent them to come in you if the if you go out there and say all right we're going to let you build this but you're going to have to put in fire hydrants uh you may be spending a half million dollars that may put the project out of the money if you let them go in and and and build a project and then you take it in the infrastructure has been presented to you with State grant money I think it's a win-win a better win-win for everybody what one of the the things that in my visits with them that I came up with was was fire hydrants and and you know we their contention was we don't have to furnish water well under our our current codes we do because of fire suppression if it's inside the city limits we have to furnish those things and they're they're really not cheap and I didn't want them to be out there thinking I was right with the world start to pull the permit and us have to uh Ching them for a 10in water line all the way from wherever it starts until it hits their property um you know I really wish in hindsight that we could have done something like the the Mueller agreement where after X amount of time it was brought into the city limits and during that time they were paying a portion of the of the taxes um but once again I'm not sure we can do that because of time constraints and I definitely do not want

[2:22:14] to to put the the um throw cold water on the develop Vel M of this property and Don to respond to yours a little bit just for for Council information we we did look into those tools and and as it states now if I understand correctly we we we do have to have the capacity to provide those Services um the applicant of course depending on what was required from a fire suppression standpoint Brian and them have distances and and a lot of it depends on what they actually build how big of an office they build those kind of things if there's smaller offices than you know just a small one where they have water on their truck it gives us the capacity to address those things but when it comes to the cost of extending the lines you know our typical policy is if if there's a a line as in this case we mapped where it is and there's an 8 in across the road and that's sufficient to uh serve their facility and the city wants a 12in run because we want to build an inter looping system which makes sense we would not charge for a 12 in we should only charge for the 8 in which is is what's over there and could get them and the city then typically pays that oversized uh extra portion for the piping so I think the intent of the policy is to not uh try to discourage development but to encourage it by if we want the looping system bigger then we pay that difference and that should not be passed along to to the developer in this case one other thing to note since we're talking about the Frack sanding is that in this particular case most of you may know yesterday the zba a heard a a I'm sorry the Planning Commission reviewed uh their policy pertaining to how Frack sanding facilities will be handled in the future that will be coming to council at the next meeting yes sir we can schedule it for the third if you wish okay preferably anyway it'll be coming that was approved so that being said you know this particular facility um whatever is is done at this facility will fall under those

[2:24:17] guidelines that are being recommended by the Planning Commission and then coming to y'all for your review so this will fall under that umbrella Johnny Marshall I have a quick question for you you threw a curve at me but you mentioned something the state grants so so what is the timeline there have you guys already applied for those grants or we not we you have to go through the county right to to apply for the grant gotcha so we that's why you don't want to be annexed just quite yet right and once we're in the city we can't apply through that Grant because it has to go through the county and it can't be incorporated area to get that Grant okay according to well if she's still here or not Mary Alice Smith who was here this morning earlier do you know what those what are those granting what is it what type of Grant does it have any restrictions on on can you ever be annexed into City okay according to my conversation with her yes you can but you don't know what agency or who what Grant it is I'm sorry I do not mayy Alice Li out on me does does staff have the wording in the contract there's some okay I'd like to hear it ma'am you gave me about six pages to read I'm not that fast all right so Section 8 talks about um the expiration of the what triggers the developers agreement's expiration so two things can trigger it um the first is if a they continue to they fail to use the property for agricultural or single family use or there is a permit or some sort of application that's um made to any government entity for a use other than agricultural or single family so the second that they try to pull a permit as I reiterated earlier if they try to pull a permit with the county the contract expires and this is the exact verbiage in the developers agreement upon expiration of this developers agreement or upon earlier ter termination as thereof hearing provided

[2:26:20] the owner agrees that the city shall Annex the property either in whole or in part not may but shall we shall Annex it so the second that the that the agreement is terminated by those means that I read before you the city shall Annex the property and this developers agreement was signed on by the owners of the property and the city can you underline that and then allow us to look at it yes ma'am thank you mayor I have a couple of comments okay the I I think just generally speaking if we go back or go up in the air 30,000 ft let's remember when we Annex and we're talking about rezonings it has nothing to do with a proposed use or the property that's right it goes with the property so um potentially anything within whatever classification uh they're promoting could could go there so I always remind everyone that and um if I may why while you looking that I I think there's some conflict and we talked about an expiration then it's got another page in the another part it says if the owner violates this contract then the city may take it so we' got expiration then we've got another provision on another page talks about if something is built on this property what the city's options are so I think maybe the expiration given those conflicted terms the expiration may be the expiration of the 25 years or whatever that was 10e agreement but then there's a provision in there for uh on another page about if the owner I don't have that in front of me so I can't do that so I mean it's kind of conflicted wording in the agreement and I think it was something new that State came out with about the time that was

[2:28:22] signed but clearly in the that document we have the authority to do so if you take action other than use the property for a or single family residential it's expressly given in there even if there's conflicting information uh it's still talked about expiration and I don't know this this is an expiration it is a a uh event that triggers another paragraph I mean it's an interpretation I think it's open to interpretation yes ma'am so are we if we move forward we're Brian I mean do we have to run does the water line have to be Rim all the way up to the property guess I'm asking that if I could just answer the previous question and then then we we can get a water interpretation the line interpretation sure but then the question I think was from from a fire perspective okay yeah so I just wanted to let you know we've been looking over the developers agreement just as I said any building permit or any permit that's supplied for with any government entity the applicant has already submitted as an agent for the owner a resoning to a use other than what has been established therefore by that action the developers agreement has now just as I read to you they have asked for a use other than agricultural Singo family therefore now according to the verbiage that I just read to you the city shall Annex the property that that okay just wanted to make sure that I made that pry clear perfect Brian morning mayor council from what I've looked at on their plans as far as a small building very minimal with a bathroom and an office the only thing to be occupied the silos wouldn't be occupied and you're talking about non-combustible sand uh the Water we carry on our truck would be sufficient

[2:30:25] to take care of that building uh that doesn't mean that if they changed what they wanted to do or some of the other things out there that we wouldn't need a water line uh right now it sets about 1,500 ft away from that corner of that property and uh that's a little farther than normal but I wave distances depending on what it is many different times so and Brian hasn't seen a site plan or anything that hasn't been submitted yet so you know he's just going on sort of what what they're saying but depending on how big the office is that they're asking for if they're asking for a minimal office you're talking about a occupancy load of of three four people maybe Max so very minimal thank you contribute to that the information that I had uh from Pinnacle was the office is going to be about $100,000 building so that's you know what thousand square feet or whatever that is now to it's pretty expensive to build buildings I think this this location the office is about 3500 ft from the nearest fire hyra where it's going to be located closer to 277 yes right off 277 I have a picture of it s I have one for you well and once again my biggest concern was for for them for us to go through the process them to be headed down that road and all of a sudden you know uh 10 fire hant are are required on 175 acres and us have to put water to it even though they didn't want it Johnny Marshall I I see where I I'm I'm confused too because in one in section six it talks about termination and then in Section 8 it talks about expiration so is that the the conflicting parts that you're seeing that's what I'm seeing where it says however as to a violation describ section two development agreement shall terminate and annexation may take place as provided by Section

[2:32:27] 8 so it may and it it may and it can but not till we get it all the rru here that is available was my point my proposition cooperate with the resources out there to make this better for everybody looks like our decision is and we're going to have to vote on this because there's already been a motion in a second so we're going to have to clear that up unless somebody wants to pull it so we're going to vote on this and we going to bring you in the city or we're going to say no we don't want you in the city another option is to just let this thing postpone on the second reading until you get what you want done and I don't know what the time limit is on that whether this is even an option or the next thing is just to kill this thing and just as soon as you pull a permit or for a grant then we're going to start all over again and Annex you that's correct that's correct Mr Mayor I think we we've gone through this process and allowed for the opportunity for public comment I I think that again to reiterate what what occurred a few years back it was always the intention for the city to Annex it and for the city council or previous councils that was the intent and so as a follow through on that there was this development agreement that was put in place because it it was it was subject to an a exemption the subject property however because there is an intent to develop the property um this is we're following through on that which was always intended for this property to be into in the city contributing to the tax base and developed for industrial use as per the the future land use plan so uh this is the intent and that's that's essentially what's what's been presented uh at the at the first reading at the second reading um and we believe that we're consistent with the development agreement to move forward with allowing

[2:34:29] you to consider annexation at this point and if we V vote no on the annexation and then he pulls a grant tomorrow then we have to start and do it all over everything we've done thus far is move we're going to start all over with everything and and the question on that would be also from a legal standpoint is if you don't if you choose not to Annex based on this agreement you have said no we don't we don't want to Annex you what right does that give them in the future as far as annexation I guess they could do it but it would have to be an involuntary potentially at that point which means you fall under a different set of rules than you do under this particular case Dan talk to us right um the property owner has done what they're required to do and that and that's why it's before you for annexation so if you reject that then uh there is no status or consent for annexation from that point forward um basically the contract's over um and uh you'd have to proceed with an involuntary annexation the other thing is the Z it's it comes in as rural estate and and uh you can provide services for Real Estate I I think as zoning change you know Services would be um relevant to a decision about a zoning change yes ma'am you just said that the owner has done what they're supposed to do and that is make an application for annexation that's what you're referring to isn't it right because they have a they have in fact uh preliminarily filed uh the rezone and their plan for development and so they've done what they're supposed to do if the if the

[2:36:32] city doesn't Annex uh they wouldn't be in violation of the agreement to proceed with their development without annexation so we either Annex them or the agreement we've got is noas that's correct and again I think um the idea that um previous Council saw in the development and patterns in the area that there was an opportunity obvious to expand the tax base if we elect at some point to Annex then as as was stated it would be a voluntary annexation and um those aren't as clean so we we believe that that as following through on what what was intended that we would act on at this time I think the other thing to mention too is that uh when we talked about grants and the opportunity to do the infrastruct to provide the infrastructure potentially outside of the city obviously bringing out properties into the city um may may or may not be up to standard at some point and so those are things that we want to consider uh grants aren't guaranteed either and so there is that chance that we will if we change our minds about it in some at some point we may not have the adequate infrastructure we would like to see in areas outside of the city limits and that's why the cities have extra territorial jurisdiction so that we can have some ability to look at how we want to expand as a city and consider what that means for us okay I'm going to call for the vote on this unless y'all want to pull your pull your motion either pull it and we'll let this thing I guess just set like it is I have one or if this motion stands we're going to vote on it I have and I want to vote to Annex you I have one last question yes sir did Pinnacle or Mr Hing or did they did they uh make you aware that they were going to change your mind did you know sir because it didn't sound like it over here when you were presenting no sir no

[2:38:34] sir so no we didn't know the city did not know no sir wow okay you going to pull your motion no I'm not okay we're going to vote on it then and we'll either Annex you or or we won't if we Annex you we'll bring you at Rd you can then apply for your heavy manufacturing uh if we don't then I guess all Agreements are off is that well stated yes sir any public comment on this any further comment from Council and mayor I do want to make sure one more time everybody understands this whatever is done will fall under those guidelines whatever is adopted concerning FR sending facility one more one more I I was kind of looking forward to putting you out there I thought we had finally reached an agreement hi I'm partlo I represent Pinnacle Sands in this manner uh Mr Hing has spoke well on behalf of the block family um I just want to I guess tell you my notes that I had that I was going to talk in in case you asked a question um we've only requested and and you've heard all this but I just kind of want to put it on the record from from Pinnacle Point you I guess we've only requesting annexation because of the agreement that was made three and a half years ago we would prefer not to have annexation but we've done everything that Rebecca has so nicely helped me do and Patrick following your rules I'm a rule follower and and that's what I want to want to be known as and do um in the event we are annexed I just want to make it perfectly clear what we're going to use the property for because I want you to know what that is in advance advance so that when we come up for rezoning if we are annexed that you've got it all on table so if you vote for annexation in I guess I'm saying I'm requesting that you give us the heavy manufacturing zoning with that vote because if you're not going to give us heavy

[2:40:35] manufacturing uh rezoning coming up then that's not fair to the block family to use their property to to make an income off of their property so we plan to build a mile long Loop track that holds over a 100 rail cars uh Mr Block will Farm cotton inside of that Loop and he'll Farm cotton outside of that Loop um our future plans include installing silos or some type of storage to empty the sand from the rail cars in into those silos or storage a small scale house to control the weighing of the trucks that would be loaded would be on the storage facility uh our future plans would be approximately 22,000 Square ft of road or truck staging parking area and we're in Texas I'm a big football fan so I like to put 22,000 square feet in perspective that's about a third of a football field so you've sat in high school football stadium about a third of a football field with regards to the amount of of Road and parking stage um obviously this is job creation um I mentioned the cotton already and we do not need savy services to to do this project uh to on a daily maintenance point of view fire hydrant sewer those type of things are all things that are left up to the powers to be their experts in those areas so when you consider voting I I reiterate again if you do vote for annexation please think of it as also a vote for heavy manufacturing when we come before you in a in a month for that also um because it would be unfair to the block family the any questions we can't put that into our I understand that completely I am uh I am in favor of heavy Manufacturing in that area and you can look at some head shaking up here as to the rest of the council so that's not taking a vote but it does give you a pretty good consensus

[2:42:39] yeah but there is a there is a concern because that is the that is the the and that's the reason I made that made that known at the very first I just want toar we're going to use the property for so you you know and uh I've only been in St Angelo for six months and the climate of Frack sanding and and I've sat in a lot of meetings and and stuff uh I realize where it's at is not near some people's houses but having it in the city or not in the city is also a political issue so well you I I just want to make the remark that we we we voted against one heavy manufacturing there because we didn't think it would look look Pleasant coming into the front you know into the I guess the start of our city so there there is that possibility but I understand what you're saying well I understand that that property wasn't heavy manufacturing it was it was light so that's why when I did the zoning request I specifically asked for heavy manufacturing and to reiterate that in our long range plan this area is identified for that purpose so this would be consistent with what the plan would reflect so other thing I want you to to to think about and why the timing of things are um all of you I'm sure own some kind of stock or part owners in some kind of business no one will want to build silos or build track or do anything without assurances that that that will be able to be completed and operated so that's why we haven't broke ground or put a shovel in the dirt or even signed contracts with anyone because we need to know the path we're on and and that's why the the lease with the blocks is such a long term because nobody would want to be involved with a five-term fiveyear they they need a long ter time to pay their their large investment back okay the property right down the road is heavy commercial so you're in a heavy commercial area next to Landfield to come on I I've given many a tours to the

[2:44:45] facility to many people that we would like to service there so I think it's a wonderful spot I'm all for it okay we saw the pretty pictures my goodness can we vote I'm going to call for the vote one more comment Mary Casper what are the specific plans in the planning department um ordinance whatever as far as containment of the Frack sand are is it going to have to be a Al enclosed building or will the silos that uh is being presented by Pinnacle going to be a viable option that that that is not an item we can talk about that's not on the agenda we're just talking about a zone change the zone change goes with the property there could be a sand plant there there could be any other type of heavy manufacturer and that is an item addressed by the Planning Commission they met yesterday on that particular item so you can look at what was recommended there I know what was recommended there will be coming to council so there'll be a public comment time when that item comes to Council on that topic it just seems like it's a little bit disingenuous we have to stay with our agenda items so thank you sorry ma'am it is I'm going to call for the vote the motion has been made that we bring this into the city with an R with the caveat that they will be applying for heavy manufacturing and that is that what is that basically what your I don't know if I use that word caveat I don't think you can add that so I have to take that out yes so it's the motion is that we accept this into the city annexation it will come in as r e there you go is that your second done yes sir all in favor please say I I oppose Nay put a 70 on uh Tina are you ready to go with yours what about the lake we got some Lake folks here well it's it's 11 minutes after 12 and I've just about ran out totally out of gas I'm not and

[2:46:49] Charlotte's already out of gas and so is Marty and so is Daniel to ex so are you out of gas Vince needs Mex how long's it going to take you Tina very little time really quick exactly I can go without the presentation if you want yeah sure let's let's take let's take Tina this is item number 12 is consideration uh consider adoption of an ordinance authorizing the issuance and sale of city of s Angelo Texas combination tax and limited Surplus Revenue certificates of obligation series 215 Levy an annual ad valerium tax and providing for the security for and payment of said certificates approving the official statement providing an effective date and enacting other Provisions related to the subject thank you mayor three to five minutes got it set the timer Okay so we've been upstairs with Vince and Paul from specialized Public Finance working through the bidding process for the debt issue that we authorized uh earlier uh this year um again that's that $13.5 Million worth of projects uh all in public safety um we did receive six bids for the interest rate today uh we we came out with the winter being at 2.54 7% which is really good we were thinking it might be closer to 3.16 I think when we first started this process so that's that's great um we also wanted to mention that standard and pors did affirm the city's credit rating at a with a stable Outlook which is very good for a city our size uh and then I'm going to move on here to the bids these are the six bids we received with Samco Capital markets uh placing the winning bid 2547 per again um this is just kind of a a history of of where the interest rates have been and so um I guess what this is saying is that 99.2% of the time has been greater than what we're currently receiving so it's a good it's a good interest rate that's

[2:48:50] the point of that slide uh this again is showing where our uh our debt capacity is and what our payments will be uh we do still show some capacity there for future debt issues if we should have the need arise and then again our timeline for the debt issue we we uh expect to have this completed and finalized on March 18th and so I just need submitted got to got to move to approve anyone Don did you say that yes sir this looks like a we've already approved the expenditure this is just setting the rates that we pay for the money and the rates are good so this is fine motion to approve Council comment public comment all in favor please say I I put a 70 on that one Nay put a 70 on that one move on to 13 consider adoption of a resolution providing for the substitution of the paying agent registar for certain of the city's outstanding debt issues appointing a paying agent regist and authorizing execution of paying agent regist agreements and in enacting other Provisions related to the subject mayor this one is just housekeeping really we're just changing the paying agent we're we're getting a better rate from a Bank of Texas than we were receiving from Bank of New York melan so we're going to switch the paying agent to to save the the city a little bit of money here so somebody move appr I'm going to take your your motion I'm going to take your second any comment councel public comment this is saving us money again and we're getting it back in the Lo we're getting it back in the Lone Star State yes sir all in favor please say I I oppose Nay put a 70 on that thank you thank you Tina and it is now 1215 thanks Vince and Lake nasworthy I'm sorry we Pito okay come forward I give you just a second let's see what you got to say Ray m Kim 2424 Rock slooh I appreciate

[2:51:00] very much you give me just a few seconds here just to take a look at a couple of uh dirty booys that we have at the lake for our safety um we're going to have to read this if we're going to go into it read it read okay we going to do Council or you want to take this you want to go to lunch and come back it okay let me get then and read it uh presentation discussion buo at Lake nasworthy now everything's legal go thank you here's a slide real quick of a buoy that's very very dirty the buoy originally I think these are they're over 10 years old they're faded and then we have the luxury I guess of some Grime and bird you know what on top of it so the buoys are very they're not you can't even read what they say so particularly over at Spring Creek Bina we have about 7 buoys that tell you four different things and you can't read them so you got a no ski keep right no wake and a hazard but what good do they do if you can't read them so we're asking that you help us purchase some new buoys keep them maintained do and um there's some conditions some of them are damaged and they they've had these labels put over um some of the original signs you can't even see the letters on top of them so I don't want to belabor all this when we're hungry but but I appreciate if you could you just need for us to make a motion that we allow you to change a out is that what you're asking yes I think that's right let's see what what do you need Shane figure out where we're I think this was just a it was just a presentation a presentation and discussion there's no action required on this okay have you got have you talked with Shane and told him exactly everything he needs to know so that he has direction to bring something back to us just need direction from y'all real quick we have approximately the need for 83 buoys on Lake nasworthy uh again they're all different shapes and sizes we don't necessarily maintain a a budget for

[2:53:03] replacement of buoys out there as you know Lake nasworthy operations is is funded under the water fund we haven't been real blessed with additional monies out there so budget's pretty tight uh we've been trying to make do you can see the stickers that we've tried to wrap around of course we get vandalism we get boats run over and we get all kinds of different things happen from time to time so uh if if Council was so inclined we could replace all the buoys out there all 83 buoys for roughly uh $330,000 is what it would take to replace all those buoys out there are are they all bad and in need of replacement we have some that are within uh 2 and A2 years um 2 and a half years old but that's only about seven or eight of them um the rest of them are all older than that it's it's up to council so I mean we have we have those issues out there so yes sir sh thank you one more comment we would like to spend a little bit of money on certain booies maybe to put some very lowlevel blinking lights maybe particularly for night and maybe just to catch a boer's eye that these buoys are a little bit more important than some other buoys Shane would y'all get together on this and determine exactly what we need and figure out what we need to fix this and put some dollar figures and bring it back to us talk with the with the lake nasworthy owners and let's let's come up with some kind of a plan yes Ma'am why wouldn't this be in the CIP there's CIP meetings going on this month this week we're actually going to have a discussion on CIP next Thursday when we have our strategic planning workshop at this so we can actually right this should be a part of that discussion and not necessarily a separate one given the timing okay I mean most of the time these dollar figures are more of a maintenance function instead of a CI CIP function it's just that the maintenance dollars haven't been there for a steady replacement program and we do I mean we do do maintenance on them coming into the summer months we will are as best we can go in there we we can you know again re redo uh stickers on them things like that replace those we get out there with brushes and actually uh scrub the bird

[2:55:06] droppings off of the off of those to try to make them readable as best we can but again it's it's just one of those things that we haven't actually been blessed with enough money to actually have a replacement program for the for these buoys is there in money in the lake nasworthy fund to do any maintenance on these we don't want to go to that yet because we have the police the polican dock first and that needs to be taken care of first this year there there should be though in years to come we should set up some kind of system where we can do maintenance on these and not let it go to 10 years when they're they're all super bad if we rotate them out but this but first we want to take care of the police stock before we would pull money for this now pulling money out of the general fund we I think we should talk about I don't see any reason to replace them I mean I understand new paint new scraping and new stickers but why replace the buoys if they're still floating they do well they still float but a lot of them in back up no um like that one right there you can see where it's been run over by a boat hit by a boat and cracked at the bottom we have several of those out there I can see those I can see replacing those and and the stickers that we do are that's kind of a temporary fix uh putting new paint and stuff like that really doesn't work that that plastic that we have on them gets oxidized really quick from the Sun um out there and it's they're they're tough to try to refurb and so uh like I said we've been band-aiding it just trying to get us by uh hoping hoping that the water fund would catch up we just we haven't had that luxury at this point so but again as as we move forward we can work with the nasworthy uh Homeowner Association and and see if we can come up with a solution or replacement programs and and costing them out like like I said I knew I know that we do have uh the need for 83 buoys on the lake and again to replace all 83 would be roughly 30,000 at this point so would y'all get with Shane and kind of work this out show him exactly what you need you've got you've already done your homework show him what you need and let's let's come to something that he can that he can wrap around and bring to

[2:57:09] us and we'll figure out some way thank you very much thank you very much thank you for your time I appr I'm glad we got this done before lunch thank you sir I appreciate that too very much thank you it is 12:22 it's time to take us in into executive the executive session under the provision of government code Title 5 open government ethics subtitle a open government chapter 551 open meetings sub chapter D exceptions to requirements at meetings be open under the following section section 55107 2 to deliberate the purchase exchange lease or value of real property regarding a potential size for a police department administration building and B real property located at in the last credition city of San Angelo 12:23 and I really think we ought to be back here by 1:30 don't youall I think we can do it in an hour so we'll be back we'll be back in an hour 23 exactly 1 hour since we broke for executive and I am calling the meeting back to order we are now to number 16 which is a first public hearing and consideration of introduction of an ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a zoning ordinance of the code of ordinances city of s Angelo Z 1437 Jeff Callaway an ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a of the code of ordinances city of s Angelo Texas which set exhibit a of chapter 12 adopts zoning regulations use districts on the zoning map in accordance with the comprehensive plan but changing the zoning and classification of the following property to Wi 428 Montega Avenue located approximately 240 ft southeast of the intersection of Monte Avenue and the Houston heart Expressway front Road and an unaddressed track located at the southeast corner of Monte Avenue and the Houston heart Expressway Frontage Road more specifically occupying 2.79 Acres of the G shitz survey abstract a 1854 s326 and 1.86 One Acres of the G shitz survey abstract A1 1854 s326 in pauland

[2:59:13] neighborhood a request for approval a zone change from office Warehouse o to General commercial CG providing for severe ability and providing a penalty Miss Gara thank you Mr Mayor Rebecca gar planning manager next item before you is a resoning case z14 37 in the name of Jeff Callaway it is 4651 Acres as you reiterated pre previously it's located on the Southeast corner of mon Avenue and the Houston heart Expressway Front Road is it it is in single member district 4 and it is in the Paul land neighborhood future land use of this site is Transitional as you again reiterated previously the existing zoning is office warehouse the proposed rezoning designation is General commercial staff however is recommending neighborhood commercial when we made this proposal to the applicant he in fact agreed to Neighborhood commercial and that is reflected both in the staff report um and as part later on of my presentation here is a copy of the major ther plan for the area as I said pre staff is recommending denial of General commercial District however we are recommending approval to the neighborhood commercial District uh CN is consistent with the transitional future land use designation CN allows for some type of buffer development while still allowing for retail uses and it allows a lower intense development compatible with the neighborhood areas to the west and to the South notifications for this resoning were sent out within a 200t radius nine notifications were sent zero responses have been received as of 9:00 a.m. this morning Planning Commission on January the 26th recommended approval of zoning Z1 1437 from office warehouse to Neighborhood commercial not General commercial unanimously so the action requested today is to approve case z14 37 for resoning from office warehouse to Neighborhood commercial not General commercial this concludes staff's presentation we're available for any questions you may have Don this is yours take it buddy yes I I think this is going to really help the neighborhood

[3:01:16] General commercial I would have a problem with but neighborhood commercial I think is great I make a motion that we accept as present second Sila did you second yes I did okay we do have a motion to approve going from office warehouse to Neighborhood commercial not GC uh Don's made it Johnny has seconded do I have further comment from the Council on this do I have public comment on this all in favor please say I I oppose Nay put a 70 on it Brian number 17's first public Hearing in consideration of introduction of an ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a zoning ordinance for the code of ordinance in the city of s Angelo Z1 1439 Gilbert arocha and ordinance amending chapter 12 exhibit a of the code of ordinance the city of San Angelo which said exhibit a of chapter 12 adops zoning regulations use district and a zoning map in accordance with the comprehensive plan by changing the zoning and classification of the following property to Wi 217 and 27.5 West Avenue Sea located approximately 230 ft South Southwest of the intersection of West Avenue SE and Hill Street more specifically occupying the fort conu Edition block 20 and 1/2 the East 60 foot of our lot 7 and block 20 the East 60 foot of lot 7 in Central San Angelo a request for approval of his own change from two family residential rs2 to lowrise multifam residential rm1 providing for severe ability providing a penalty yes ma'am yes sir again this is resoning Z1 1439 in the name of Gilbert aroa it is 0.165 Acres again located on the southwest corner of West Avenue SE and Hill Street it is in single member district 3 and it is located in the for cono neighborhood future land use of the future land use designation of the site is neighborhood as you can see by the zoning map in front of you the existing zoning is two family residential or RS one the appin is proposing to rezone to lowrise multif family residential and as you can see the properties immediately to the East are also zoned rm1 in fact the property owner owns those properties and is is it it is his intent to combine

[3:03:21] these Lots with the lots to the east to form one larger partial which is intended to have multif family residential on it this is a copy of the major ther plan also found in your staff reports this is a concept plan which is not part of the approval however it is subject to um any and all approvals today um as you can see the multif family that's being proposed will be two stories be located in multiple buildings to give the appearance of single family residential to store residential homes however it will not be one monolithic apartment building here's some concept elevations of the proposed units staff's recommendation is approval for the reasons before you and also in your staff reports the rm1 zoning district is an extension of the existing rm1 zoning adjacent to the property to the east it's only proposing 75% of the maximum density which would be allowed on the property it is in intended to look like three large two-story homes as opposed to one large apartment building the use appears to be consistent with the comprehensive pl's future L use designation of neighborhood and it provides an effective transition between the one and two dwelling unit properties in the area and the commercial nodes to the Northeast East South and West notifications were sent out within a 200t radius of the site which equated to 15 notifications one was one was returned in opposition and one in favor copies of those comment forms have been included in your staff reports on January the 26th the Planning Commission recommended approval of zoning case Z1 1439 unanimously and so the action today is to approve zoning case Z1 1439 from rs2 to rm1 and adopt the ordinance on first reading this concludes staff's presentation we're available for any questions you may have this yours buddy what's you say Johnny you know what I've I've known Mr arocha for a number of years and I commend him for what he's trying to do here this this these Lawes have been vacant forever so for him to want to do this and upgrade the neighborhood I I'm moved to approve uh

[3:05:24] this item as presented second did you say that Elizabeth yes I did had uh Johnny has made the motion Elizabeth has seconded uh to go from rs2 to an rm1 do I have further comment from Council on this item public comment on this call for the vote all in favor please say I I oppose Nay put a 70 on that one R number 18's first public Hearing in consideration of introducing an ordinance amending chapter 10 entitled traffic control article 103 entitled operation of the motor vehicles of the code of ordinance of the city of San Angelo Texas altering the maximum speed limit on Sherwood Bay beginning at the intersection of Park Street and extending West to 300t west of the intersection of Southland Boulevard with such street being located in the city of s Angelo Texas provided for severe ability providing for a penalty providing for an affected date Mr frit you are own sir good afternoon um a while back Council requested or I believe it was councilwoman farmer requested a study be conducted along Sherwood Way uh we contacted text Dot and they performed such a study whe what it was found is the 85th percentile of speeds along that particular stretch of roadway uh fell between 46 and 49 mph um taking that into consideration along with the number of the the high density of driveways coming onto that particular piece of roadway and the high number of accidents on that stretch um LED Tex do to make a recommendation to lower the speed limit to 40 m an hour all this is is a change of our ordinance to allow texop to do that they would pay for all signage and all um all labor to install that sign those signs that's who's starting us off on this chared since you asked for it second Council comments you I think I think it's a terrible idea to take that what is it 18

[3:07:29] blocks it's and go from 45 to 40 and then back to 45 and when traffic's traveling 47 it doesn't go up to 45 as you exit Town it would actually be past uh Southwest Boulevard so at that time the speed limits start picking up to your highway speeds what is it in front of Sams all it's in front of Walmart and Lowe's it'll be 40 at this point but this doesn't go all the way to this goes all the way past there it goes past yes sir it's just fast fast moving out there with the number of businesses and that's where the complaints came from with the business owners that their customers trying to get in and out of their parking areas where it be their Western Wear uh the number of places even at um uh es even though there's a stoplight there it's just the speed is so fast that traffic trying to turn in usually gets clipped pretty good and after over a dozen of them contacted me I requested that the study be done and it's just a way to slow it down I I think if traffic's running at 47 miles hour naturally then that's naturally the speeds you ought to have and just by putting an artificial speed limit on I don't think you're going to slow anybody down we can could do away with speed signs if you wanted to yeah but I mean realistically you know we tried the 55 mph and people wouldn't drive 55 and every they increase the speed I mean if traffic is is traveling at a prescribed Pace just because you put a sign there is not going to slow them now it could create a it could create a a speed trap where we could ride some tickets but I don't see that that's going to do anything will you explain the I didn't speak earlier you are correct it does going to argue with you you are you are correct I was thinking Southland so we got about 18 blocks we go from a 45 to a 40 back to a 45 and then to a 55 so you're just taking it cutting a little section out of a big section that's nothing but a that that's nothing but a

[3:09:32] speed trap and 5 miles an hour is not going to do any good there Patrick will you explain the mutcd the mutcd the manual and uniform traffic control devices um it's it's basically the guide book used by all Transportation departments whether that's a state local um to have a uniform guide book to to work along so well I guarantee you that if you knock it down to 40 they're going to drive 45 anyway so maybe that helps in that that manner but they they'll be up to the 45 47 all over again we get to public comment one one second mayor please um you've got me on a you got me on my heels here for a second what I'm looking back at is um Tex Do's actual letter to us the one from Tracy K yes we're looking at it right here so the actual recommendation is past Southland the map is incorrect that you're looking at up here it just goes to Southwest so it is out past Walmart and past Sam that's what I thought with all the development that is going on out there and will be happening that they were recommending in a meeting that was at to slow the traffic speed down it gives the public safety officers another tool and their Tool Shed to try to control some of the speed out there so that's that's way down to Chick-fil-A it's all the way past Chick-fil-A it's past the the banking center there and out past Sam's so it goes from Clark Street all the way past past Sam's 300 foot on the other side of southw oh so you're saying the mayor is getting what he wants the mayor is getting what you want a cons a

[3:11:35] consistent speed from Clark speed all the way to the edge of town I I think you I think it's I I don't understand knocking it down 5 mph when the traffic's already traveling 47 you know I had a man tell me one time I was was I was going to build a gate in a fence and he said determine where you pull in because I was going to build a Gateway over here and he said determine the tracks where people pull into that property and build a gate where they pull in and I you know that makes pretty good sense and that's the same thing here if your traffic is running at 47 m an hour that tells you what the traffic should be and just because you arbitrarily lower it to 40 does not mean that you're going to arbitrarily lower the traffic from 47 to 40 so to me to make it 40 when the traffic is running along at 47 to me you're creating a bigger Hazard than what you've got already uh that's way I see now if you're trying to build a speed trap then it's perfect location it's impendent upon the the motors to obey the speed limits I don't think we're trying to build a speed trap I think we're trying to calm traffic in an area that is becoming much more congested with more curb cuts and more activities than we had five years ago I'm not offended by having to drive five miles less I you can change my behavior with a a speed limit sign Rodney you know and the biggest thing I'm looking at is the future and and we've we've kind of seen what the master plan is out there and it's getting worse and worse and I and I drive through this intersection literally I drive through this intersection probably six to eight times a day going back and forth over there and the amount of accid I see an accident almost every time I drive down down that road so to me I'm sitting there going if it again if it helps one person not have an accident it helps one person not have an accident and in the future in the next five years that that area out there is going to be way more congested than it is now I I believe so I'm for this that you know trying to help out a little bit I agree with

[3:13:37] Johnny you know if we put 40 on it they're going to go 45 but right now at 45 they're going 4850 or more it's 48 average you know there's a good many people that are over the average and they're going 50 um so that's where my that's what I think about it any further comment before open it up to Public public comment come ahead sir state your name you got three you're going to have to speak fast oh man three minutes um Let me let me State my name is Greg Ms I am a traffic safety expert I have written numerous uh research papers on speed limits uh your question about the manual on uniform traffic control devices the gentleman did not explain that the 85th percentile for many decades is considered the safest place to post the speed limit and since the 85th percentile like the mayor was saying is around 47 48 that's not an average speed by the way that means 85% of the public is at that speed or below that speed that is where you're supposed to set a speed limit and setting speed limits lower does not slow traffic down it just creates more problems with tailgating and Lane surfing and and uh other behaviors that you want to cut down on and it does not decrease accidents which is the reason given here speed limits uh uh lower lower speed limits have do not improve Traffic Safety in fact there's a lot of studies that show lower speed limits actually cause more crashes injuries and fatalities and like I said I've written a lot of the research on it myself I'm with the best best highway safety practices Institute and it's it's just a bad idea all it's going to do is create a speed trap and it's not going to it's not going to decrease accidents and it's not going to slow people down a a speed limit is supposed to

[3:15:41] reflect the speed of traffic the speed of traffic is not supposed to reflect the speed limit do you all understand what that means it's a democratic process it's a democratic scientific process where they take the speed over 24-hour period say of all the cars on the road and they determine what the 85th percentile is on that stretch of free flowing traffic and that has like I said over there's Decades of research supporting this and I brought I brought some of it with me so y'all are welcome to see it stuff that I've written and stuff that the Federal Highway ad Federal Highway Administration has written and people like that honest honest Engineers that have no ties to the police or insurance companies that make money off of speeding speed enforcement so I can show you I can show you written proof that this is a bad idea and I can tell you from my own experience bad idea and it's not going to help safety and that is a six Lane Boulevard the speed actually according to the 85th percentile the recommendation in the manual on uniform traffic control devices is to round up which means the speed limit should technically be posted at 50 right now but 45 is good but 40 is unethical any questions thank you buddy I'm giving you a straight scoop on this I got do you have a copy machine so I can like make copies of some of the stuff I can take it and provide it to them okay cool thank you appreciate your time thank you sir did Dwayne yes sir did the the state Engineers that sent the letter that they recommended this change is that correct yes sir that is a state controlled roadway um they make the recommendation on the on the speed limit it's just our

[3:17:44] ordinance is the one that has to enact that and and they kind of I know that I was in a meeting the other day with some State officials seeing what is about to happen or possibly happen out in this area and they were probably looking at that also weren't they I don't know if I'm at Liberty to speak about that right now few years ago that on right here downtown the Bryant coming on the one ways you know going through town they lowered the state ordered the city as I recall we had to lower it from the 45 to the 35 or whatever is posted now to slow the traffic down and that's what the state recommended that we do do I have further comment from the public on this this is a first reading so it takes two to make this an ordinance so I still got a little time uh another statement quickly for that for text do to recommend lowering to 40 borders on malpractice thank you seriously we have had comment from the council we've had comment from the public the recommendation is to lure it this is the first reading from 45 to 40 in that 20 block stretch and then it jumps from 40 to 70 or 75 I guess yes sir up to highway speeds all in favor please say I I I I'm Nay Nay Nay we got got three NES and four show show hands let's show hands for the eyes Four Eyes let's see a show hand for the NES we got th SNES and four eyes so first reading it passed I'm going to work on y'all for the next one cuz I think this is bad bad business it's not going to do anything but create another problem out there thank you Greg for your help let's move on now great thank you let's move on now to number nine

[3:19:47] which is consideration of approving the negotiated contract with midex of Midland Incorporated to construct the concession building p314 and related side work in the Bosque in the amount of $371,900 we've negot excuse me we've negotiated and now we're looking for approval to execute this contract um little reminder kind of where we are Carl's working on with the concessionaire on that part of the project that here we are getting the concession building and immediately following this one is uh number 20 to ask us to allow us to negotiate with the putt putt so all these things are kind of moving along together here um obviously we're talking about the concession building itself but it really encompasses a lot of the uh site work in that area um here's the this is an updated uh rendering of the plan of how it was changed in what we have now and so just a reminder what we looked at last time this was our budget that we presented to you guys back in February 2014 uh concession building we had a budget 225 still looking at the miniature golf 175 our site work and utilities together you know 50 and 70 about 120,000 and we have 30,000 for design and $100,000 contingency bringing this package this development into $650 $650,000 um so we got uh pricing from midtech we worked on them a little bit we were able to get the concession building down um the the budget it was 225 it's at 221

[3:21:50] 983 the site and utilities is still a little higher um at 141 829 we also part of the original bid included an alternate which were U these uh electrical pedestals that we will have for the food trucks to pull in and plug into and that's an additional $7,400 that brings our total project cost is 371,000 264 um there were some discussions last time about the square foot of the building and you know the cper square foot and uh you know I think it's a little inaccurate to look at you know 400 foot building you know cost this much because we're bringing all the utilities uh services and from a good distance to get to the building so you know if you look at the just the building itself it's 575 bucks a square foot that's crazy uh but a big part of this is the roof and the roof itself is about almost 1,300 sare ft so when you take in that into account you know we're looking at really $175 a square foot a little more palatable just for the roof well no that's for the whole you know you take the the 221,000 the cost for the building which includes the roof uh so I'm I'm spreading it over 1,200 square almost 1300 square feet as opposed to just 400 so no I understand how it works the other things that came out of that last time when they presented if we saw in the graphic there were a lot of driveways that come into the POS into all of that had been calculated into the overall number of the building so all those driveways that come from the parking lot for the trucks and all that is now in your your section as it pertains to the site this graphic gives you a little better idea of what the footprint of the building the Box in green and then the blue roof element so that'll provide shade provide a sitting area for tables and benches um so it's

[3:23:53] all very usable space and uh certainly a major part of the construction of the project um so the next part of that was same numbers at the top but we're looking at the site and utilities U numbers here it's 149,000 with the alternate and you know just we've got 240 linear feet of Sur service road that we're preparing it's uh 12T wide um down by the concession building we have 3200 square fet of decomposed Granite where the trucks will park uh people will sit out and so that's a large area that we're we're incorporating into our um you know development here and then you know utility trenching we've got almost 600 linear feet of utility trenching from you know for get getting to the pedestals getting uh water and sewer and electrical to the building so you know for such a small building there's a lot of uh quantity there that's involved sitewise as well as with the the building itself um this graphic kind of gives you a little visual on uh the yellow at the top that's the road that um 240 linear feet of Road the blue is the a section that we took out of the project um so that saved the bulk of the money U and then the kind of reddish color is is the scope of the decomposed Granite that we will have around the building and so hopefully that gives you a better idea of the the scale of the the project so um again the uh elevations um so kind of a comparison of the what our original budget and where we are now um the numbers on the right are the revised numbers and if I take the contingency down to 75,000 which I think you know certainly adequate for this project um you know we're within

[3:25:56] $1,200 of our budget you know we could take it to 74 or 738 you know to get it exact but um you know projectwise I think we're close um we only had one bidder so there was no one to go back to no real comparison on pricing uh we did have to get another electrical contractor but um as we're looking at those numbers but it's tough competition we only had one bid so um so as far as the total funds available we have 900,000 if we take the 651 out for this phase that'll leave us 248,000 for next amenities that we decide to do um so the staff is recommending uh that we execute this contract with Midland and and then we can start construction on the concession building um at this time it probably be looking at June for completion probably end of May or June if we could get you know things rolling uh and then at the same time if we can negotiate with Harris which will be in the next um agenda item um both of those could open at the same time so there you go any questions who going to start us Rodney I still have a problem with the price per square foot being this high and I talked to two different uh commercial contractors that are local guys that did not know anything about this project and weren't sent uh out the packages I how many packages did we send out for this um I think we have a list of contractors that are you know have done work and and want to do work with the city so we send them out to them I think we had 12 how do you get on that list just for their they call it they Roger Banks anybody can be on there and then we publish it in the paper and all that stuff as well okay put it on it goes to the plan room as well and

[3:28:03] so all right you know I've got several phone calls on this project on the price per square foot and even if you do the the roof and you know you pull the roof out separate and everything when you're still talking about about over $500 a square foot for a metal building that's that basically is one room a bathroom and a closet right um the people you know everybody was against it they they said that we need we they felt like we were being ripped off by this company out of Midland because they were the only bidder so they felt like they that that company just threw a huge price tag which they did that first price tag was huge and then now they've come back and we as a city have given them these numbers to shoot for right which to me personally weren't low enough numbers to shoot for but that's just my opinion that's all I have any other comments from Council Don I man as far as I'm concerned we we throw these in the back garbage can as we leave and and do something else to to spend this kind of money for for what we're getting to me is crazy I just you know I just can't believe that we can't get it done cheaper than that and if we can't get it done cheaper than that then I don't know that we need it that amount of money worth yeah and and those are always good discussions for yall to have as David said you we brought back what it is if you choose not to do it then we can rebid it we can there's all those options you have as you go through your discussion Johnny I was just going to say that David I think you done a good job I know that when 12 bids go out or you send it out to invitations yes uh and then nobody comes back but one well sure I can sit here and say hey if I was one of those I can say you know now I know what that price is going to be I could have done it lower than that but yet you didn't throw your name in the Hat at as one of the the folks who could do it now I I do agree with Rodney it is it does sound a

[3:30:05] little pricey still uh the concession alone uh it it doesn't seem that that much to me the 221 I'm more interested of course at least planting the seed with a miniature golf if that leads later on to even the concession area fine but I think uh I think folks in general want something like some more activity down there along the river whether it be paddle boats or the miniature golf or whatever we come up with but but sure the 651 is still hard to swallow but uh when you add it all up you know the M go 17 you know even the site workk a I I just don't see how it adds up to 100 almost 150,000 to for the side work I I don't understand that you know I'm not in that type of business but I can see where when you see the bottom line yeah it's kind of you know sends out red flags it is is kind of high right I hope we can at least if if not now I'm looking forward to talking about the the golf The Miner Golf and I hope we can at least approve that whether you can come down with a lower price I don't know I just Elizabeth what did you say we'd have to be crazy to support this I'm feeling crazy um for the sake of discussion I'll make a motion to award the the bid and I'm going to Second her motion for the amount of money that has been spent to develop the area down there and the number of years that the staff has spent work and the Contracting yes I I agree with Mr Fleming it it is high we had one group that bid on it but for what we have moved toward and where we're going um it's I'm going to be with her I guess I'll say crazy if that's the way the rest of them want to look at it but I just don't see how we can stop now and put off the progress that's been going forward you know with our Riverfest and

[3:32:08] its success and the success of things that are happening um right we don't stop now Elizabeth that was that was probably my turn to concede that time um I I I agree with Miss farmer that we've got a lot of time invested in this and I'm not sure what the you know really the The public's uh awareness is of that I wish the project were less expensive I wish we had more biders I don't in any way question the bidding process everybody that's in commercial construction in this community knows how bids go out out from the city uh luckily for them they're probably busy right now and that's great but um I was talking to cat earlier about the cost of saying no and I think this is another one of those examples unless we're going to completely scrap the project and start over in concept we're not going to find this any cheaper than what than what y'all have been able to negotiate kind of at this period of time so um I could wish that it was less expensive but I will tell you if I vote for this I'm expecting a lot of bang for this buck and I would imagine that the public is too so for the sake of what you have invested and what we've already done with the river and the Synergy that we're creating um I'm happy to support it stay with my second that I little background the building began as a a masonry wall building you know CMU and we had in preliminary pricing on that and I guess you guys would be on the floor at this point with those numbers because it was ridiculous this is our you know trying to bring it into into budget and we've we have made several uh considerations here it's just a economy or lack of economy of scale you you this is high I agree we did have two other guys that looked at it one guy from was

[3:34:11] from abing I think I mentioned this last time another was was a local guy he just didn't get his paperwork and his bonding in place and he said I maybe next time so um you know we' we've done what we can mayor add me to the crazy category well I guess couple of comments one I um in in the middle in Odessa area I've had the opportunity to do a lot of work with midtech and uh they're very reputable and and they're they're a good company to work you know to work for and to work with uh so I I don't think that part of it um should be I mean they're they're just a good company uh secondly you know when you build something this small uh the the cost per square foot just runs a lot uh U and you know I'm kind of like I think Johnny said you know it's easy to shoot holes at it after the fight act but but no one stepped up to the up to the bar and and and uh tried and so you know if this is the best it gets and this is the best it gets and and and I I think if it fails we scrap the whole thing I can't justify it I cannot justify it in any way you know some of the some of the prettiest steel work I have seen done was in our Fireman's Park and it was Dennis rher that bit it that built it right and the city crew and I guarantee you you put crowd on this and put his helpers we can build this thing and have a whole lot better building than this is at not even a fraction of the cost so I'm I can't not justify $221,000 for a 400 square foot metal building that's I can't do it yeah any public comment on this yes ma'am come ahead

[3:36:16] my name is Susan Myers I live in downtown San Angelo I lived in downtown s Angelo from 1997 till 2001 then I moved to Southland then I recently moved back um eight years ago I love the beautification project that we have done not only downtown but our River I have family that lives in Seattle Washington Washington DC San Francisco California uh Marathon Florida and the Florida Keys and they just can't believe how beautiful this city is with that river that runs right through it we spent all all this money to beautify The River Why are we going to put in a trashy 18 miniature golf course there's people that walk I walk every single day sometimes twice a day from the YMCA all the way to where the old Fireman's Park is over here and I just don't understand I do it for Solitude I see people sitting down reading books other people I walk my dog I see other people walking their dog there's joggers there's people with their children and their in their strollers why are we going to ruin it we spent all that money to beautify the boss there's a bathroom there there's all these things and you look on Channel 17 and see what our city already has why do we want to change it and why are we going to have somebody come in from Midland to do this and they want St Angelo to subsidize the stand I don't think that's right um and we're already complaining about the trash that we have here in St Angelo what's that going to do to the downtown area and the river it's only going to make it worse and to spend that kind of money and I don't if if they do decide to build it it shouldn't be where the Bosque is there's uh another area that's farther down that they could do it over there by the foundation Bridge or the Friendship bridge over in that area but over where the Bosque is or over where the kids kingdom is that's even better over there if they want to do that because that stuff's already over there but leave a place of solitude so people can sit and be quiet walk their dogs be with their people run walk whatever I just U nevs Park was here years ago there's still some railroad tracks down there maybe they could do it over in that area over there but by the BOS I

[3:38:19] think is a no I don't want to spend my money in it and I don't think we should thank you ma'am do I have further comment from the public on this motion has been made and seconded that we approve 371,000 side work okay I'm going to call for the boat let's raise our hands on this one all in favor of spending this and approving and approval of this please raise your hand we got four eyes everybody oppose raise your hand that would be one two three tell midex to go to work we'll get busy all righty let's move on to number 20 which is consideration of selecting Harris miniature golf courses in corporate real Incorporated to provide design construction services for the putt putt golf course PK 10114 project at the Bosque and authorizing the city manager of the design need to negotiate said contract Mr n all right I don't have a presentation I'm just now that we are going to have a building I think now it makes sense that we can pursue the putt putt as a development we had two proposals submitted uh for this I'd spoken with a couple other manufact or design Builders and um I thought I would have had more but two submited one was an architect out of Leck who really they're not a designed build firm so Harris miniature golf is a well-known uh manufacturer and developer of these types of things they also do um other developments in in these entertainment areas so um I think they're a good um company that in their proposal they represented that they could do the 18 holes for 170,000 as opposed to 175 there are some additional things that we

[3:40:23] could add as amenities and uh improvements if we need to but um you know the now now we would negotiate with them make sure you know we're guaranteed on the on the price and uh and that I would come back to you hopefully in the next two weeks and get that approved so what do you need today I just approval to negotiate okay call me crazy but I move to approve now one thing that I that I that I am concerned David every time I drive by there that area just seems way too small it it it just it's a narrow long strip and it just seems way too small I wish we could push it out but that I just want to throw that out there I may be wrong but it just well that's something we can look at that um you know he in their proposal they had P that oh yeah will you amend your motion to include a train no sir my second does not involve a train I want the train back nap I agree there's some dollars remaining after all this is done no those are for a windmill y' can decide point of order point of order train or a windmill let's see oh that's the is this in the same area where the putt putt course used to be yes yeah yeah we had two before Had A train running around it before though didn't it somewhere in there I think there was a train um you know the they represented in their presentation that they could do 18 it may be little shorter holes some of them I don't know that's something we've got to work out the details but um that may or may not work I keep was that well just never mind just keep on going I we know where it is there we go um Downer by the train yeah where train used to be yeah it would wrap around I

[3:42:27] would like to stretch it out to cover more of the Park area I'll vote for it well we can work um once we get if we get into contract with them you know we can look at the plan and we have a committee that been uh working on this area anyway that we can see if everyone's comfortable and happy with the layout all right any further comment from the council public comment on this I'm about to call for the vote all in favor please say I I oppose nay nay how many Nays we have just one put a 61 on that one all righty is that what everything you need sir Miss Myers I knew Johnny silus was going to disagree with you on that ma'am that's my uh number 21 is discussion and possible direction to staff regarding used tire nuisance abatement and Disposal and related issues syis you asked for this yes sir I think over the last couple of years and Jan flers knows about this there is a a property out there on the end of Bird Street I believe it is where Wilson tire stores tires out there and I think we've come to a resolution I think it's all going to be in the end the bottom line is the safety of that neighborhood cuz you know there is a and when it rains you know those tires collect water and they bre you know mosquitoes breed out there and you can't go out there and enjoy a picnic or a hot dog cook off out there cuz you'll be uh kidnapped by mosquitoes practically so I think we've come to a uh a a resolution and I think Mr Flores is going to Enlighten us on it so you bet good afternoon mayor council city manager uh James flus code clients uh councilman Sil is correct in the fact that uh this issue was going to pretty much Target one location however in our discussions um with councilman Silva some

[3:44:28] constituencies uh in and in tcq uh this this is not the only isolated property in and around s Angelo uh North chadburn has a u a high potential of the same violations that are existing with this location um that we can now through through knowledge and through working with tcq we feel confident in our local ordinances that we can deal with from a health and safety standpoint from a fire standpoint um so the good news is is I think that uh what this brought to us and I'll humbly admit a little bit of ignorance when it comes to the enforcement of these particular uh laws uh it just made us get a little bit better as as an office and and reach out to external partners with tcq and clarify issues that U we at one time thought we didn't have much control over U there's zoning issues that we can deal with on on all these locations uh in activity just cuz it's an ml uh zoned type of property doesn't mean that it just it can become a perennial storage for tires there's got to be some some uh activity going on in there so I I'll I'll just uh leave that note with the fact that we can work some issues now I think in and around the entire city but going back to this particular parcel uh it was very welcoming and and uh it was a it was a great meeting between myself Bob Solace and the Wilsons uh in regards to their particular location they were very aware of the situation um they were very eager to work with the city of s Angelo um I I was blessed with uh even learning about some of their business models so uh it was a great great outcome and and I think in the end and I can Mr Wilson is here I believe some people within the CI within the district are here as well uh but in the end I think the city as a whole has an opportunity to handle the situation in the event this this becomes um a problem in your uh prospective districts uh but for this particular case I think um with the help and the support of the Wilsons um they have been great partners of the

[3:46:30] Great American cleanup they currently pick up our tires from the city of San Angelo so some of that inventory I think we've kind of burdened them with uh but but in the end uh by first of summer I think I can U proudly state that this will be uh completely vacated of of tires of of any nuisance that's going on there uh right now if you have any questions or if I needed to clarify and I need to add I I do appreciate the Wilson family Mr Wilson thank you so much for your cooperation and I totally applaud you Joe chavaria he's very Di diplomatically has always called me on the phone and never one time yelled in my ear but just Express his concern of hey the mosquitoes out here are getting bad so I appreciate him doing that and just keeping me online with the idea of coming to this point so uh again I just James thank you again also for all your help all righty thank do you want to talk Johnny Jo no you want me to no thought you might want to be on TV come forward state your name for the record Johnny and then sir my name's Johnny Wilson thank you for allowing me counsel to take a few minutes our family's been in business 70 years enjoyed a wonderful reputation and wonderful St Angelo all those years and we want to remain u a good family trying to do some good things for St Angelo trying to support 15 families paying our taxes which about set for about 75 people kids in school and and uh food in their mouths and uh so we we have plans underway right now to begin clean up of both uh tires that are not used usable and tires that are usable I have a a plan from Mr Beck International tires from Kansas City Missouri is planning to come in March buy every tire that he can that may not be usable locally uh that' be shipped to Brazil Argentina places like that where they they're not as disposal of of disposable Community as

[3:48:34] as the United States is they rebuild tires from just about from top to bottom so he's going to buy his plan is to buy everything that he can use and and uh ship out and then everything else we will be working with the city and U tcq to uh have them shipped out to uh tire recycling centers uh most of it Denver City we we've been trying we have not put anything in the St Angelo City Landfill other tire dealers do and that's okay because they take them but we've been trying to keep ours and other places so that's our plan is to cooperate with the city as we always have and and uh and to continue to improve the circumstances and condition used tires are a problem Nationwide um and it's an issue at all the the tire conventions all around it's a national we hope somebody might pick up and start building houses if you look on earthship.com wonderful houses built out of tires fences all kinds of things but nobody around here has has really jumped on the bandwagon but if you decide to or if you want to lift tires for exercise we have plenty thank you very much thank and I remember dealing with your daddy Johnny and we were just a little bitty boys yes yeah well she was here thank you Mr Wilson Mr Wilson you're not going to ship the donkey to Brazil right you're going to keep it uh if the neighbors would like to keep him we'll keeping I don't think I have a problem with the donkey booger stays okay thank you Johnny you satisfied Johnny all right let's move on then number 22 is presentation discussion and possible action regarding the recommendations of the downtown Master developer Catalyst Urban Development as a relate to a downtown Redevelopment strategies with specific examples reach concept and B public private Partnerships and other tools available to incentivize projects within the Downtown Development District in a matter consistent with the adopted downtown Master development strategies document Paris Redford principal

[3:50:37] Catalyst Urban Development you going to Get It Started Mr Howard sure I will as you know members of council that we've been working on our strategy for implementation of the downtown strategic master plan and uh we have Mr Rutherford here to provide an overview of where we are with respect to the plans implementation and talk a little bit about phase two and some of what you can expect in the future so I'm going to find pull up the presentation for him good afternoon sir good afternoon Paris Rutherford principal of catalyst development I have to apologize for my voice it's that time of year I'll try and muscle my way through it with you uh we're excited to be here to talk about um kind of the continuation of the strategy that we discussed some time ago um and staff has asked us to work on the preparation of uh some strategies as they relate to how to implement the three areas of Redevelopment that we talked about before I have that information in here we'll we'll run through that with you I think it's worth noting um kind of going back to a 10,000 foot level um sometimes it's it's important to go back and say why are we doing this and why does downtown Redevelopment matter I know it seems to be a fairly obvious concept certainly for those of us here in the room um but what may be less obvious is um we think that Downtown Development helps balance the identity that's been created by the newer development that's happened out on the loop in sub Suburban growth here in St Angelo um certainly the last seven or eight years that has been great from an economic development standpoint um but and it's generated more critical mass in the city which is good um it hasn't necessarily Advanced the brand of s of St Angelo if you know what I mean in terms of U you can find that development in any other community around the around the state um as good as it is you come back to downtown itself and downtown is truly what makes St Angelo

[3:52:42] regionally unique um the footprint um what happens in there the history the identity of it the river all the good work you all have done up to this point in there um it's something worth noting um that that is what what we think kind of advances and and strengthens the brand of the city regionally what's also worth noting is this map here you see green and red the areas in green are areas that are not really participating from aack standpoint um whether they're public facilities you know or nonprofits um you've got lar areas in downtown that are not generating much tax benefit to the city currently so by focusing on Redevelopment um some of that green starts to shrink and it brings it back into a Better Business engine for the city and and focusing in on downtown also expands downtown's presence as a Civic cultural and experiential place all the things you've done on the river are great um which you were talking about here uh just a little bit ago um because it adds a critical uh mass of use and activity that expands that activity from the daytime into the evening which is what you know draws people down into downtown in the first place and we believe that a strong and vibrant downtown is good for every neighborhood in St Angelo regardless of where it is because of the regional profile it brings because of the jobs that it brings so forth and so on okay so there are some challenges and you may say well we haven't seen a lot development in downtown over that 7ye 8-year period there has been some notable development it's been smaller incremental U many of which are local folks that are coming in um that have a passion for downtown um but there's reasons for that there's basic real estate kind of fundamental reasons why you haven't seen as much as you have out on the edge um older infrastructure it's difficult to assemble land in terms of getting the footprint um that's required for kind of modern day real estate transactions by and large um you've got

[3:54:44] cost of renovation there's historic structures and complexity and and expectations that the community has for the type of development that would occur within downtown generally speaking that equates to a higher cost of development um and because of that there's a higher perception of risk if I'm an investor coming in and I'm looking at doing a deal out on the edge or in the core it seems a little more risky to go into the core for the reasons that I've talked about so we think that's a key reason why uh there has been a lot more development out on the loop for instance than in downtown over the last 10 12 years it's one of the key reasons so there is a solution to that that many other communities have undertaken um and that's to try and write that engine towards a different direction so that there's a coordinated economic development program that lowers Real Estate Investors risk on catalytic projects whether it's perceived or not if they feel like there's risk and they don't want to necessarily come in or they think it's too risky or the cost or higher for some key early on projects you want to lower that expectation or lower the risk profile um to make it easier for um key projects to occur we've got some ideas on that so you might recall in the strategy it was a kind of a a try Triad of of of approaches one was to focus in on workplace infill which is essentially getting more employment in the core downtown second was um having additional restaurants in downtown that's a big reason why people come into downtown currently um and that's allowed that to continue and expand um as we've seen great success over the last few years and also to get a nighttime population so as a quick recap on that in terms of the employment workplace infill the bottom line is we measured um uh there was about 60 66,000 ft or so that should be able to be done over the next 10 12 years based on your population forecast and the economic growth that we measured um in traditional office that would be office

[3:56:46] space that is in smaller buildings you know with someone going to work in an office versus out in a shop we also think there's about 150,000 ft of shop related space a lot of that could happen on the north side of downtown where you know it was some time ago again we have some ideas about how to how to address that you might recall that we looked at Opportunity sites within downtown and focused in on a series of areas primarily on the north side of downtown where this type of use could occur so there's a prototypical approach um starting with workplace on how to attract that and kind of make it work I mentioned before um that if we're looking at new new construction in particular that has the largest positive impact to the tax base it's a brand new building that comes in the valuation that comes with that is positive and then obviously we have workers that are in those buildings that are populating the restaurants and potentially housing that's elsewhere in downtown um it's also the highest cost scenario you know a new construction like you just saw on the concessions building new construction brings with it price um and that if the rents aren't there um to justify the cost of new construction then you have an economic Gap so there there is an incentive program that can be put in place um through a a host of different mechanisms many of which don't require any cash outlay up front um and that would be um for instance tax abatement program you have these programs that you use elsewhere um I'm not aware of some of these being used right in the core uh just recently but I'm sure you have experience over you know the last 50 years of doing some of that and the fact that you have a tur setup is positive it's a fairly low amount of increment to use the the amount of money that we're talking about is very very small and doesn't rise to the level of a new project realistically might be good for some streetscape here or there that goes with the project and then of course there's a host of ways that you can look at Economic

[3:58:47] Development grants or infrastructure grants um and there's programs um obviously that work with that so I'll give you a couple examples of what that means in kind of real terms out here I looked at you know we looked at a couple properties that are on the market um we're not saying these should be done we're not saying we're going to come in and do these specific properties but it gives you an example of how a program might work so if you look at this particular structure um that's on W four Street you know the old Warehouse that's there um it's for lace or for sale right now it's it's just under 10,000 ft building but what's more important is the land it's a good location in terms of its proximity to downtown and its proximity to the loop so that could be a good location for a horizontal office kind of Warehouse type building um that's more than just storage that actually there's people that are employed in there so running through the assumptions that you see on the screen and making some assumptions asss about what the acquisition cost would be of that building so forth and so on um and then looking at the um return on cost threshold that an investor would have um of8 and a half% that generates an economic gap of about a million dollars to come in and do a new building that's brand new um that houses multiple employees up you know within that 10,000 square fet um and you can see because it's new construction that's a big number um but it gives you a say gives you a sense of scale and I think it's important to talk about that scale because I know you've done a lot of work in setting up the Tiff and again the increment isn't large enough to handle um that kind of a project so there are other tools that would be required to make that work another example is the Continental building it's one of your core Office Buildings in downtown you've got 33,000 ft of office um but much of it is pretty old inside so you know we looked at that and said I know a few years back there were some uh energy companies that were looking at that building so forth and so on they moved out to the industrial uh area for various reasons but what's

[4:00:50] important is to make sure that your doors are open to the office Marketplace that you have product that you can offer that is realistic and viable um and meets the needs of a modern day user from an office uh standpoint there's a fair amount of tenant improvement work that needs to happen within that building so we looked at it as if well if someone were going to come buy that building for instance um what would they be looking at and ultimately if they could buy the building for about $340,000 then it's a viable deal whether or not the owner would sell it for that is a different question and if it's sold for more than that that would generate a gap you follow so uh the amount that that owner you know feels like they would need for that building would generate a gap but in just straight numbers um you can kind of see the assumptions in there based on what we're assuming um and where that would be to get it up to the point where it's a kind of a class B+ building right now it's advertised as a Class B it's realistically probably not at that level it's below that uh in terms of uh Gap financing that would work with those types of projects whether it's renovation or acquisition Demolition and new construction um there are a range of things there's tax abatement of course um there are tax credit programs the new market tax credit program is a great program um for what what I just talked about in here it's essentially Equity that comes in it's a program through the federal government and there's there are a lot of banks that participate in in that program and it's something to investigate because it's no cash out of your pocket um for some of the more historic buildings um of course there are historic tax credits through the state um that a developer or an owner could apply for which again is just straight Equity um there are Economic Development grants um that can run through the turs um your Development Corporation has the ability to you know to to put some that type of a grant program together um whether it's a grant or a loan um parking is always an issue um

[4:02:53] there can be a larger strategy on parking uh by creating a parking District that accommodates grouped parking across properties and then there are also some interesting um incentives related to reducing operating costs uh as we've talked before um having Group Insurance in downtown uh really kind of executive office services meeting facilities that are coordinated all those things help uh uh Market some of the space for new development the second are is on restaurant infill and you'll recall that the strategy was to congregate restaurants along chadburn within a couple blocks of chadburn in the core of downtown down to the river and that is a strategy of course that's happening and you know we identified some sites for that and this has a very strong impact on the tax base in multiple ways both in abor as well as uh in the sales taxes generated but if you look some examples of that what's just north of the Twisted route proposal and here there at at Concho and churn for instance um that's probably a good scenario where you could have new construction a new building comes in um that building might be taken down a new building comes up in its place and you can see the uh the assumptions in here U because that's new construction which is the most expensive uh uh situation that we're looking at um it's about a $750,000 gap based on the type of assumptions that we're using here which we think are are market-based now of course if we can uh if the cost of acquisition is less than what we're showing here um that Gap comes down if we can get higher lease rates obviously the Gap comes down um but you can see this is a pretty good snapshot of where things are it gives you a sense of scale we wanted to show the building that uh you know were the the proposed Twisted route was is planned for um and in this case because we're looking at an existing building and not tearing it down just simply renovating it um if if

[4:04:56] they were able to buy that building for about $ 160 to $170,000 or less there's no Gap that's generated if they're buying it for more than that then there's a gap that's generated now I know that you've got a lot of infrastructure that's coming in around that building and they may be taking advantage of that I'm not sure sure in terms of not having some of those costs that they ordinarily might have that's not factored into this but the kind of the straight numbers are another example uh right down from pente is on chadburn where the ballet was I think it actually is just least up but that's a building that could uh be present within the life of downtown a little bit more than it is right now and again using the assumptions here that 12,000 ft building assuming um some office space above and opening it back up to chadburn there's about $140,000 Gap and that's assuming obviously acquisition cost so forth and so on so similar to the office there are a host of programs that can be used to write some of those costs down whether they're upfront costs or operating expenses um and those are things that we can explore in the next step with you um but I wanted to give you a sense of of scale in terms of the size of the numbers that we're talking about and then finally on housing you call the Third Leg of or of that strategy was to get nighttime population and residents in downtown there's been a lot of effort and talk about putting them into existing buildings um you know that would be uh realistically smaller projects and those are good things um but at the scale of an investment you're usually looking at 150 to 200 units as a typical scale of an Institutional Investor um at difficult to achieve within that uh within an existing building so we identified some sites where some of that new development could occur it's mostly on the south side of town and you know the the nice thing about new development um Greenfield or

[4:07:00] ground up development is you get a lot of critical mass right away it's a project that works immediately um and the cost all although the costs are much larger it's also a much larger project renovation probably requires multiple buildings at one time to achieve critical mass in in operating expenses so forth and so on so you may recall this scenario where we were looking at some of the projects along the river and this is about 180 residential units is about a $22 million project that we put forth to you all about a year and a half ago as as you recall um and looking at the assumptions that were in here this this was generating a sizable Gap it's $4 million is a big number uh and the letter of intent that we sent you that was closed through a number of different things that didn't require much cash outlay um there was the ground lease there were a bment and fee there are things we were doing on our side uh in terms of mortgage insurance programs that we were using uh the turs in terms of a small amount of streetscape um some tax payment um that went with it is really the largest piece but that was able to close such a large gap um but it's again it's kind of a popery of different items that came together to make that work to allow a $22 million project to occur within downtown those are the three areas those are specific projects and kind of the scale of investment and gaps that we have identified through our analysis so far um I think our next steps are to um if if the scale of those numbers are things that you're willing to consider um regardless of who's doing it in the future if the goal is to have to continue with that kind of investment strategy for downtown then we can put tailor programs together working with uh your staff um that would be open anywhere in downtown they're not site specific um but it becomes an entree listening to your presentation from the chamber earlier it sounds like there are some other things that are bubbling up they'll likely be coming forward to you

[4:09:02] with requests like these so I think it's important to be nimble and have a program in place so that you can um properly react to those requests if that makes sense to you again sorry for my voice but um happy to take any questions Council I have any questions for Paris it's very interesting I'm I I mean but I think the the key always is it's it's filling the Gap so this is this is kind of a our want or what our gut is tell telling us our downtown could and should be but it's really the next step that's the hard step right so for instance you look in some of those projects and and someone comes in if I flip up to any one of them if someone came to you and said you know we want to tear down this building we want to build a new building on koncho and we've run our math and we think there's a $740,000 you pick another Street just for the sake of discussion just pick anything other than koncho Avenue that's fine that's fine uh this building on chadburn for instance um and they say well you know we we we want to participate we want to be one of those six restaurants that comes in over the next seven or eight years and we want to bring this street this building back out to the street we want to open up the windows that are closed um have some office space above and a restaurant below um but realistically the acquisition price of the building is $350,000 so we have a $150 to $200,000 Gap um that we've got a fill well in that situation they may come into you and say you know we've we're we're we'd like a uh special Finance rates um that are available to us working with the city for instance um TH or we'd like the tours to put some new streetscape in out front or would like a facade Grant to rebuild the facade out front to close

[4:11:03] some of that Gap those are the kinds of requests that we' be coming forward and I think it's important to have um you know a program in place that allows you to react and it doesn't always have to be public dollars no I mean there there are a variety of ways to do this if we're committed to it right I mentioned the tax credit programs are all federal um you know I think you all were looking at one earlier um out on the edge um I wouldn't be a big proponent of that type of a program coming in the core downtown um but for instance the new market tax credit program is for job creating business businesses um and it can go towards investing in the physical structure those businesses go within and that's a great way it's just simply working with the developer um to allow that to happen um you know letters of support things like you know they were asking of you all earlier but I do think it's important to note that to expect the kind of vision that you all have identified in your prior studies for downtown there are there are likely fairly sizable gaps that go with those projects um so the question becomes you know are are you in you know as a body um to have some catalytic projects come forward um or as I've heard I think in some other discussions will the kind of the market can sort of take care of things in downtown it's difficult for the market to take care of things on its own because of the extra cost at a scale that goes beyond a small storefront and you know I think for downtown to kind of go to the next level there needs to be some new investment at a larger scale um that that starts to revamp existing buildings in total um not tear them down but revamp them or fill in gaps that exist within areas in downtown that are just parking lots or you know vacant properties right now because of the cost of infrastructure and other things it's more difficult and expensive to get a deal done in the

[4:13:05] context of downtown than it is out on the loop on a Green Field you've got infrastructure out there further comments okay well we'll keep working through yourself then you'll you'll be seeing that coming along thank you thank you Paris appreciate you sirate you let's go on then to number 23 which is consideration and possible action on matters discussed in executive Clos session and there are none there is nothing we need to bring to you number 24 is consideration of approving various board nominations by Council and designated council members Development Corporation Tony V single member district one to a third full term February 2117 Tommy Hebert single member district two to a first full term February 217 Juan Flores smd3 to a full first term February 217 John E bario Jr smd4 to a third full term February 217 Scott tankersley smd6 to the third fullterm February 2117 and Daniel Anderson by the mayor to the second fullterm February 217 I'll entertain a motion move to approve second do have a motion to approve and a second do I have any comments at all from Council do I have public comment all in favor please say I I oppose Nay put a 70 on that one uh number B is Parks and Recreation Advisory Board Francis jelin spurger smd1 to an unexpired term December 215 may I have a motion move approval second do have a motion in a second further comment public comment all in favor please say I I oppose Nay put a 70 on that one uh announcements and consideration of future agenda items uh Daniel does have and Daniel was sick so he had to go home but uh city council strategic planning session February 26

[4:15:09] 215 and I think you want to start at this at 8:00 in the morning will take most of the day for us uh location he's looking at the Fort this is something that location to be announced is everybody comfortable with that Council yes it's in town though right pardon me ma'am it'll be here he's looking at he's looking at the Ford he said yesterday but uh okay do you have anything uh Elizabeth I I I think the only thing I have would be what I've mentioned now several times I I think going forward on the low income housing tax credit projects I think we should have maybe a policy in place as to how we handle those I don't know if it's you know whether it's the letter or deferral of of development cost or uh you know looking at how it impacts the school district in various school areas the elementaries um how it is relevant to the comprehensive plan um thoroughfare plan just having I think a more comprehensive thoughtful approach to who we support so that our citizens get the most out of it and we're not just reacting um I I think most of us when the first one came in or the one that we've kind of pained over didn't know there was a second one coming in so I'd like us just to be in a position to do that I would probably not put it on the same agenda as the next one but maybe let let the the the round at uh tdhca end and then look at it do you hear that Michael Bob is working hear working on that policy would welcome your input you heard it okay Mike's world uh Mr bman I don't have anything Charlotte Mr SS yes I do mayor I've got a couple uh there are folks interested and finding out on progress of the Walmart on South South Bryant is there any movement do we know anything maybe a Friday packet memo something I know there the majority the

[4:17:13] council uh want an update Mr Dixon on I know you've updated me on the Avenue P project we'd like to have maybe a presentation at an executive session meeting I do am interest I do and and am interested in the animal shelter process of folks being able to adopt or not adopt I think there was an issue that was raised just yesterday so I would like a an update on that how that works and then the last thing I just heard today a gentleman friend of mine I went to school with came to buy rodeo tickets we definitely need a swipe card out there for those folks and not to have the line backed up 30 feet 30 people deep so swipe card and then also I think the funding is there Rick for the Marquee and yet nothing's been done so our new signage out there would be nice about to lose my voice but we'll give you an update on that too but the swipe card I'm very much interested you're talking swipe card you're just talking a credit card credit card yeah swipe card credit card check and see what they have because there was at least 30 people in line the other day and they have to they come up to the counter and the folks there have to input their number key their number in slows the the whole process down so that's what I'm talking about we got a new Civic VIN direct yes I already put a bug to look I already put a bug in his ear thank you very much we don't we don't give him much of an opportunity to get their feet on the ground do we Mr C nothing at this time m uh a few things first I'd like U I've had a lot of residents from Southland contact me on the paving situation and where will we stand on fixing the paving can we get an update on that and uh let us know what we're doing or we you know I I know I couldn't give them a good answer on that um the second thing is an update on the police boat dock this has been a really really long process and I would like to have a presentation on that to see what what you want that in Friday you want it here

[4:19:16] I I like it where the public can see it especially like n they working on it diligently but I think they've got some issues with price and all that kind of stuff so you probably won't like it okay but I'd like to know where we're at so we can try to figure out how to get over it okay we know what it's going to cost if it's a 400 foot yeah no it'll be a lot more it's over water2 okay and then uh last but not least I'd like we discussed this in the past and I'd like it to be put on the meeting about the doing the health department letter grading system uh I would like to come up in the next couple of meetings if we could and have a discussion and possible action on that and that's one we have prepared for y'all in the past I think we put that in packet but we can you want us to put it on agenda item stand to hear discussion from the public on that especially restaurant owners okay so s Vel worked up that presentation and we can get her to put it on thank it should maybe not this next meeting with within the next couple I'll get her to coordinate with you or okay thank you somebody help me if item number 26 move to approve mtion motion to adjourn I'll take whatever you said I'm going to take it with a second all in favor say ah this meeting is over out of here that's close enough

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=WSZqMz3PgvE