San Angelo City Council 9-18-12 part 2

[0:00:00] 217 let me call the meeting back to order two three four five got I have a quorum and um what I want to do at First Council is look at uh item 19 is the pay issue and then items 22 through 28 are budget issues and then I'm I'm I'm suggesting that the the uh overwhelming part of the audience is mostly interested in what are we going to do with the water issues and so I think we should take up 29 and 30 uh and do that first and then double back and hit and go from there yeah that's a it's always helpful for me raise your hand if you're here for water okay okay so we'll make a run at water first and that way people can get on about their business and then we'll and we'll turn around and do some of the other issues what no so okay and so um let's start then with item number 29 this is the first public hearing and consideration of introduction of an ordinance amend amending article 11.2 of the water conservation and drought contingency ordinance by adding a new subsection to this to the exception and variance section we have a presentation by the water utilities director will Wy mayor council under the current ordinance as part of the water conservation draft contingency plan the council has the authority to Grant variances and exceptions uh under the current procedures uh those would have to be brought individually each person or each group that may be requesting a variance or an exception to any part of the ordinance would have to go through the application part in the council would have to consider each one on the on an individual basis the proposed amendment to the ordinance uh would would uh streamline that process and let

[0:02:04] me just read what the proposed amendment is under the exception part of the ordinance it would be amended to include the following it says the city council may allow exceptions to any provisions of the article and the council May Place conditions upon any exception so with that proposed wording then the council uh would then have the authority to take up entire group uh considerations such as if you you had all of of a certain type of of use could be included in one exception vote without individuals having to submit those particular applications on their own there so uh that is a very short summary of what it would do right there uh and be happy to answer any questions you may have okay questions for the gentleman okay okay um sorry mayor the question I had was what form form would this action take in other words we would would we need to amend an ordinance and of course the readings and notice and all that goes with that generally two meetings that kind of thing or is minuted action enough and it appears that this ordinate grants Council the authorization uh to make these exceptions through minuted action that that we don't need to amend the ordinance um because this language because granting an exception would not be amending the ordinance granting an exception is authorization within the ordinance and of course I'd like confirmation of that I'm sorry to Spring that on you no not not at all but it does appear that we've changed uh the language within the ordinance that is in the section for the granting of the exceptions I think we've added um one sentence so I think it might be amenable so with the existence of this language in the ordinance Council would simply be able to take minuted action in order to

[0:04:08] Grant or resend or modify an exception uh in accordance with this these terms right but are you referring to whether or not we need to pass an ordinance currently to effectuate this exception or good point no I'm assuming that with this language in place that uh Council would be able to through a vote a motion and a vote and that minute at action there would be Authority there granted to suggest that certain activities were allowed or not allowed that would be exceptions to the specified restrictions in this ordinance exactly well stated and the key for us is that as we move forward with this language in place if one of you decides that or comes to know that a certain Act is beneficial and doesn't cause cost uh a lot of water then you could propose I make a motion that we allow watering by Green buckets instead of blue buckets or whatever you might propose uh you could do that through that type of action without the recreation of an ordinance or undue delay that that this meth this mechanism allows you the the quickest action and the most flexibility well but okay at the same time um it it would seem to me that we're being restricted from actually acting on specific re recommendations today because because we don't have an ordinance that allow because we don't have an ordinance that allows that so it sounds like to me it sounds like to me the way that this has come forward today we would we would basically uh take a vote to approve the amendment that uh Mr Wy just uh just allowed and then at the next council meeting we would have a second reading and put it in place at which time maybe a a subsequent uh agenda item could allow us to

[0:06:14] address the car washes the pools the are you tracking with what I'm saying yes sir and I and I agree with what you're saying and I I think that is in other words we could have brought an ordinance which said uh which eliminated any language related to car washes today but that wouldn't have given you flexibility on other items and so the difficulty in predicting what might be an appropriate action in the future caused Mr Wy to produce this language which gave you much more flexibility now then the second part of that is what you were asking uh Council that um if this ordinance were voted through today second reading and it's voted through uh at the next council meeting and there were a subsequent item on the agenda um so now you've had a first reading second reading you voted something through that allows you to amend the ordinance and you had a subsequent uh it item that you then addressed some of these specific issues would we be able to make those uh changes exemptions that day effective um basically immediately or would we have to do those as a first and second reading well the um exception in various Provisions are you well initially they were upon petition right of the requestor so I think that once the ordinance is in place you could proceed to act pursuant to the the new Provisions okay without having to have an ordinance okay so then if the parsing this a little further is it in place after we approve it on the second reading yeah okay immediately so so just make sure I understand so what we would put into place after the fact would might be some more like a resolution type thing correct right against this ordinance against it well not against it

[0:08:17] but making exceptions to this ordinance utilizing it correct and that's a one reason in addition to that's a one reading correct okay I just just so we we know how the how it's all going to going to play it works in the opposite direction also and that is you could make it more restrictive the one one reading we can take it back exactly or parts of it back exactly and that's the key that's the biggest benefit here is the flexibility it gives to council okay M farmer I need to understand the wording the verbage in here exceptions does that mean that the businesses or individuals still need to go down and make application yes or no for an exception does not preclude them and does not require them what what this does is allows Council to act this is this is a this is language that allows Council to act as their judgment directs them can we put the language up on the screen for the folks in the audience I think the short answer is that what we are going to try to address instead of each one of those people all filing individual exemptions for their swimming pool or their car wash is that we're going to do a blanket basically exemption to say Car Washers are allowed this and swimming pools are allowed this the other thing but it doesn't but it doesn't preclude doesn't preclude someone out there who has an issue that we don't even know from petitioning petitioning us to to consider that Mar you're correct the variance Provisions are still in place for individuals who wish to petition Council to request an exception yeah so so I have a that's the same thing I'm saying yes ma'am okay Mr Mor the way I read it the way the the way the ordinance says right now is that

[0:10:20] each individual must request an exception and the way this reads is that and an in an individual may now request an exemption or a group of individuals representing A specific group I don't see what the deal is I'm going to make a motion to pass it that an exception can be made by an individual or a group of individuals businesses or similar water users to the city council yes sir you made a motion I'm going to second that motion okay I have a motion in a second basically to discussion to to to it change to approve it the main ordinance it doesn't change anything it the main ordinance is an individual May request an exception and we're saying an individual May request an an exception or a group of individuals represented by one may request so all we're doing is adding a paragraph here or a sentence there's more seemingly more to it not the way I read it okay the exception can apply to an individual or a group of individuals businesses or similar water users so an individual may be may be able May apply for an exception or a group of individuals may be represented by one person as a group to apply I don't see anything I don't think okay but there's also more to it where it just says the city in other words in your case Mr Morrison you're saying someone comes forward and asks for something but what this is doing is allowing the council to make those exceptions even if no one has come forward okay because it says the city Council may allow exception that sir I don't read that it says with that the council would have the where are you I'm reading on this help me information cover memoo the council would have the authority to Grant exceptions to any provision in the ordinance the council would have the ability to specify that the exception could apply to an individual one person that's asking for

[0:12:23] an exception or a group of individuals businesses or similar water use here's the actual Amendment okay this is not the cover letter this is the actual amendment that that would go into ordinance and it says be it ordained by the city of Stan Angelo number one that chapter 11 you know of the code of ordinances is hereby amended to read as follows section 11.24 exception and variance exceptions the city council may allow exceptions to any of the provisions of this article so it's it's saying in that case Mr Morrison it's saying you could you could allow the exception based on the fact that you know something and and want to bring it in front of the council you wouldn't even have to wait for a petition from an individual or a group of individuals or a representative of the group so one one page that we have here says one thing and then this says something totally this is the ordinance this is the amendment so it's what matters okay well and I pull my motion well the amendment applies specifically to the subsection one and two which are the use of water for testing and repairing Sprinklers and water frequency for the second category for parks and athletic facilities so if the council wishes to make an exception or place conditions on those for example those might be considered non-essential uses the council can move forward to do that without uh waiting for action of any individual under the various provision it's just allowing Council to use its its um the information that it has at hand to make exceptions to restrictions prohibitions and restrictions relating to those two types of uses go ahead what what are you thinking I'm thinking this is a mess we've got two different things here no it allows you everything you want now I pull my motion now when we were talking about an individual make asking for an exception or an individual representing

[0:14:25] a group Mak an exception I've got no problem with that things are still available but that's not what this that's not what this this amended no those things are still available this just says you can do something addition hang on hang on hang on if you read the section A exceptions this is on the amended ordinance the city council may allow exceptions to any of the provisions of this article the article is the full conservation no it's for the it's for number one and two in number one and two yes so that's all we can change yes that's what it states watering frequency so where is it where is it talking about individual or group we written this thing wrong it makes absolutely no sense you got two different statements made on two different pages and nothing ties together okay because okay relax let them have their conference let's talk let's okay to thetic that would apply to any provision of the additional ordinance the entire water ordinance or the water conservation ordinance that this is replacing correct yes okay perfect then I'm good with that with that I'll make a motion to approve second any of the provisions of this article yes anything in the drought contingency plan that's what I mean what I'm saying is someone could bring it to your attention you have you have permission to move forward so one can bring it to your your attention for a group of people you have the you have permission to move forward you could learn it on your own and you would have the ability to move it forward it's the broadest amount of permission you could get okay now it moves on to say not only do you does the council have the ability to allow those exceptions but it moves on to say there shall be an exception to the prohibitions on the use of water for installing testing and repairing

[0:16:28] sprinkler systems so we're we would be saying that's okay uh and we won't be revisiting it we're saying it's okay to to use water for installing testing and repairing sprinkler systems and it's saying it would be okay the watering frequency and schedules for public parks athletic facilities schools colleges and cemeteries shall be as approved by the city council so if we want to allow that we would we would allow it okay I have a motion in a second to approve it as the amendment as presented okay now question questions Miss farmer I do have a question I I understand what the motion is saying and and what our City attorney is saying but I do think it's a little muddy that it says watering frequency and schedules for public parks athletic facilities schools colleges and cemeteries shall be as approved by the city council it's not being specific to outdoor watering car washes um andc and so forth and I don't want any confusion on the Public's part out there that if if we move to stage three we make this amendment trying to protect commercial businesses but I don't want people to think well it's fine for me to wash my car in my driveway because it's not there's no outside watering in stage three just just to clarify item on the amended ordinance or amended the revision here the only thing it's adding all the line items I just read the city council May approve exceptions to any provisions of this article Council May Place conditions on any exception that is the only new part for this paragraph okay all the other stuff was already there so all we're doing is basically adding the the provision where we can provide an exception and outside watering is disallowed under drought stage three clearly unless Council takes an action unless we make an exception to that right prohibition mayor unless you make an exception to what it falls into

[0:18:31] watering frequency that's correct schedules it would go it would go by what drought stage three says you cannot water outside you cannot water an athletic field you cannot water a park you cannot water unless Council said um you know we want to approve uh you know it's rained 3 Ines we've decided to approve for the next 90 days this kind of watering schedule or or that kind of action so that's what it's saying it doesn't change the fact that that you can't water it just says you have the ability to change that if you want to I see a question mark I'm sorry are you clear I mean no may could I I want to hear from the public before I vote yeah yeah I will definitely hear because I want to know if they're understanding what we're conveying here now let's I think we clarify that you know this is not I mean what they need to be commenting on here get to that point is that what you're saying is what did you say I'm saying that there'll be there'll be a time when we need to talk about these specifics right okay but this is not it not not the ORD this is simply to say we can talk about it and we can make the exceptions at a later date but not today but I think they could we should allow them to make the comments right at at different time for our later day vote correct they came we need to hear them but it's not pertaining to this I got you all right are there any other questions or I mean really what it does is give you the mostly way you could possibly take I have a thought Kendall and this is pertains what Kendall just said if I were in the audience and y'all tell me if I'm right on this you have no idea what we're thinking about what your business how we think about your business you can't tell how we're going to vote on anything and so you're going to come up here and you're going to state case and you're going to do it for the full five minutes if you they're going to each do that because they have

[0:20:32] no idea what we're thinking and so I just want us to proceed with caution because we could be here a long time could be when we can't do anything today because we just we're going to well we're we haven't taken a vote but if we pass this we have to have a second reading and then we can do something then we can have discussions about well I know that the indoor pool at the YMCA is not going to evaporate much water okay I think it should be exempt any indoor pool okay I can say that and Y yeah yeah yeah we all agree and then Pete Terry from the YMCA doesn't have to stand up and give his bill you see what I'm saying it's saves time because they know how we understand you now the only thing the only thing that we have to decide is whether Council hi M bowling you know you're supposed to be commenting on the item that is on the agenda okay and so what I'm after for the moment is how are we going to allow now item 30 okay okay let me read okay yes item 30 guys let's move 29 forward it allows us the most exact and then let's go to 30 okay item 29 I have a motion in a second allowing us to amend this drought or ordinance and that is exactly what you want so that you can deal with their problems so because for the moment you can't and so we got to move forward to then deal with their problems all right I'm calling for the vote on 29 all those in favor please say I I any opposed okay now you have a second reading on that item at the next at the next meeting and that's giving you permission then to do the rest of what you want to do item number 30 is the consideration of adopting a resolution implement in drought level three of the city's water conservation and drought contingency plan and we have a presentation by water utilities director

[0:22:35] will wiy in our plan there are different trigger points established uh for management of Water Supplies based upon the available amount of water from the developed water sources that the city has uh at its at its disposal and use there uh that Tak into consideration what is the needs what are what are the supplies available uh and looking at those uh we evaluated the the criteria that's passed Friday and the amount of water available against what we project the needs over the 12 months uh was not adequate to meet those needs for the 12 months therefore the trigger point for draft level three uh was met and we're bringing to you today the resolution uh for the council consideration for implementing of that water supply stage okay I'm I think it's very important Mr Wy so I'm going I want you to walk us through what what are the inputs that are allowed and what are the the things that could happen over the next 12 months that are not allowed when you're saying we have 12 months worth of water okay so Ivy is as far as that in evaluating first of all the supplies available we look into what are our current sources that are developed and on the line that we can utilize the current time oh IV as our primary Supply we can depend upon about 12 million gallons of water a day from that Source from now through roughly June of next year uh the other sources we have available are twin bees Reservoir in Lake NZ at this point in time uh our other sources OC Fisher and Spence Reservoir do not have any water available to us at this point in time so looking at those three sources Ivy Lake nesworthy and twin bees uh are considered in what are are the amount of water we can utilize from those sources over the next 12 months here so bottom line then we taken our next step is what is the supply what is the need for the city over that next 12 months and looking at that we take into consideration as we move into the winter time the need is going to be reduced as we move into next summer if we're under the drought level three that need is going to be a lot lower under drth level three than it was this past year so we

[0:24:38] project the need for through the winter months at about 9 to 10 million gallons per day through the next summer we would be then uh up in close to the 12 million Galls per day until ivy goes offline once ivy goes offline then we're down to uh really how do we manage what's left in the local lakes and we drop that need back down to around 9 million Gall per day at that point in time okay sir and Mr Wy uh are you including normal rain uh no rain uh what are you in what are you thinking on as it pertains to rain over the next 12 months the projections are based upon the very worst case scenario of no rain no runoff into any of our local Water Supplies during that point in time so when you say we're within 12 months of the time we would run out of water that's with no rain no runoff has to be based on the very worst scenario okay and and uh the the next thing that I would ask you is uh you know that we're building a pipeline and trying to bring water here from Hickory aquifer but that is not in your calculations correct that's right at this point in time it's not because not a source that is on Vine that we can turn to certainly when it becomes available next year uh we will start including that as an available source to the city okay sometimes in the winter we have spring flow uh that helps uh and so is that part of your consideration or not at this point in time it isn't because all of the inflow we've seen coming into the reservoir over the last two years has has been released by Downstream senior Water Act calls for that water okay thank you so it's proven and and so right now you're looking at Ivy twin butes and Lake nasworthy that's correct okay thank you are there other questions for him okay okay thank you sir okay at this point we would uh need a motion to adopt the resolution implementing drought level three but uh for purposes of

[0:26:40] Education uh let's go ahead and open up to public input and listen to the things that you would want to pursue uh possibly at the next meeting as it relates to the things that drought level three is concerning the citizens about just a thought I mean do you want to group it kind of how it was I'll sure try thank you two other items I'd like to add as part of the resolution uh the implementation date for this uh level three is proposed to be October 2nd which will give time for the public notice we need to place in the paper for implementing the draft level and allow that public awareness to know that it's coming there the second is the additional charges associated with uh the billing would become effective with the November one uh utility statements thank you thank you sir okay I I'm I'm putting this together uh with car washes first and with swimming pools second okay and then uh with uh what I'm going to call large water uses along the lines of irrigation like a golf course or a um anything a large uh piece of land so let's start off with the car washes okay so if you're here to talk to us about car wash washes and the impact of drought level three on car washes I'd invite you to come up here and talk to us about car [Music] washes how are you good afternoon Mr Mayor U City Council Bobby Lou Allen the auto owner operator of Auto paradise car washes um and while I don't claim to speak for all car washes um I do um represent a large majority of the car wash capacity within the city and a lot of those owner operators are in the audience behind me um as we talked at the last council meeting we want to really approach this issue from two directions one is that we are members of

[0:28:43] the community as well our kids go to school here we raise our families so yes we're operators but we're also citizens that are concerned about this issue and are really trying to drive ways that we can um conserve water and survive the drought as a community as well as a business um so as a business part of the information that we provided last time and in subsequent meetings is that the car wash industry even though it is called out in drought stage three is not a large user of water within the community it is estimated that car washes are normally just 2% of the daily water demand within a city we even say if you multiply that time two and a half times and say we're 0.5% you could shut down all the car washes in the community for the next 6 months and you still would not gain one day of water supply for the city um and that's assuming that everyone followed your order which we know is not necessarily the case that you will see people washing their car in their driveway or on their lawn Etc so assuming everyone complied you still wouldn't gain the city um a tremendous amount of water the second thing is that we are very active in conservation already a lot of us have already implemented actions where we capture reuse reclaim high efficiency nozzles eliminate certain actions but we know that we can do more just like every citizen and every other business so we submitted last time from our association a program of suggested activities um and how much water should be used um in general um for each type of car wash within a a city so self- serve conveyor mbay automatic so we would um request that the city uh Council review those and take those under consideration when you're looking to amend the ordinance or take exceptions um in the for the

[0:30:48] ordinance um in future meetings October 2nd um thirdly is that we do represent quite a bit of economic activity um with within the city while we employ somewhere probably in 150 to 200 people somewhere um that's an estimate we impact a lot more than just those 200 families there are a lot of people whether they're plumbers electricians the people who um take care of our waste the soap the chemicals all of the things that we spend locally um would be negatively impacted um within our local community so with with those comments we would we would ask the the council to consider amending the ordinance um to give us some level of stability for planning because the way it's currently written if we do this by exception we don't know from month to Monon year to year how to plan for our business as well as for the the families that we support um within the community thank you sir another uh Car Wash spokesman okay um 2% well that's what is estimated by his Association would you please help me with with my math does that mean what 9 10,000 acre feet is what we will consume indoors in our houses 1% of 10,000 is 100 correct or am I wrong CU 10 cuz uh 1/10th of 10,000 is a th000 1/10th of that is 100 so 100 Acre feet is 1% % 2% is 20 acre feet I've already researched one car wash is 9 acre feet a year one car wash so I I got I got to I need help with numbers is U let's if we use the 0.5 just to make it simple math is we were using um the the quotation of 18 million gallons a day obviously um Mr Wy just

[0:32:52] said that we would go down to something 10 million but using 18 as the as the average that was published um and quoted by the council um that 0.5 would be 990,000 gallons a day um which is well within what we believe Citywide Citywide for all car washes we're talking about per day okay it's our association and I have the the data submitted the data from other cities and it's it's less than 02 in most cities we're saying multiply that by several times and um we would still using the 18 million gallons per day figure that was quoted okay 100 Acre feet a year is what you're telling me that's that's what it is you want to do the math on it I trust you math um 990,000 gallons time 365 that's a full year somebody running math um now you're in gallons now let's convert to cubic feet divided by 7.48 now you're in cubic feet div make it acre feet so now you divide by 4 3 5 60 and now you have the acre feet to be an acre foot and it's about 100 so it's about 1% of the water uh 100 Acre feet is three days of water four days of water four days of water that's that's the math I'm getting so we we we will defer to your your math we were using what the association gave us and then doubled it so 90,000 let's um okay I mean you're I'm going to run those figures over and over if I make a mistake I will chime back in and say I made a mistake very good I have a Mr lellan I have a question for you I think the last time go ahead uh tell me where the the number 120 car washes came from do we have 120 car washes 120 employees employees in the car wash industry oh okay I was there was a there was a statement last

[0:34:53] time about 120 Car Wash sites um I had heard at the water board or the water Council the previous Thursday that there were 120 landscaping companies so I don't know if there may have been some confusion there but the last count that we could come up with were somewhere probably in a 40 to 50 range on car washes but I I'm not the right source to confirm are you talking about like the different number of bays in a car wash or the whole the car wash itself that I think it's Car Wash locations um I would def I could ask some the guys hey Stripes has 20 something in the we have four automatics and okay so that number of being 40 is still too is more than I could count in here in town so that's way more than I could count how many big think you do that for us automatic car you drive your car through how many car washes are there you drive your car through it I have three stripes just start talking let's figure it out how many car washes Mr Alexander I I I need to know something well I understand but let's not let's not do this as a group exercise today well hang on stay with me just a second let's let staff through the water bill just look and tell you here's what they're using you got two weeks Bingo okay two weeks we'll have this number figured out I only have to calculate it and then you just say here's what the usage is what do you want to do with it I like that idea we have to we have to know exactly what these numbers are to understand what we're doing to ourselves okay now let me to handle this let me get Mr herfield in here Mr hfield the the one question I'm going to have is that how many of those car washes and I know we're going to come up with a number but how many of them are using uh reclaiming water I don't know that number but I can when you say reclaim I think the the better question would be Rec capturing and recy I would go on the limb that every single car wash has taken significant actions to try to reduce I'm not talking about changing the nozzle size and I understand that I'm talking

[0:36:55] about actually being able to to reduce their consumption of watera easily 90% of the car washes capture their Ro reject as a base which when I did that it saved me 30% of my waterpr they're already doing that I believe that that's how we get to the the reduced usage no no but I'm saying if it's already being done then the water bill includes that savings yes that's why I believe that they're all we like we said we are already aggressively conserving can we do more yes the association gave us some suggestions and guidelines of saying go back and challenge to make sure that every wash is using this amount of water so we I think that we we as a group have agreed that we're going to go back and challenge if there's more we can do but we already believe that our industry is not a large user and we can go back and calculate the actual data the data from the association and and we Tred to we try to be conservative and doubling it um we were Charlotte came over and gave me a I need for public information purposes I need to say that she was writing down some figures and they're all here you can go online to www.swc.com where to find what information she just gave me so that everybody can have access to it okay thank you sir okay let's let's uh let me listen to someone talk about swimming pools okay you guys did a nice job last time and I'm uh basically describing what happens to a pool when it's empty what can happen to a liner when it's empty what can happen to the um oh the the the coping C no not the coping yeah the plastic

[0:38:57] what happens in the plaster pool and that you put the the Integrity of the pool at risk um in either case um and then there are the the other issues of of how much water is it and the solar panel the one thing that I still think should possibly be part of this is the solar panel issue because it's I think it would help with evaporation what do we know anything further about that chemical that's supposed to help with evaporation so let's make sure we talk about that a second and Mr bankster please go ahead you're up there and then then right behind him maybe you could come up okay uh Bob bankster with a radway in um I did a little figuring out of you know water usage on for for refilling swiming pool with 200 gallons a month um that equals 07 acre feet of water to maintain the pool level where'd you get your 200 gallons okay I figure 50 gallons a week the most but how did you figure it just a guesstimate I have other I have somebody chiming in via email from yesterday they they say it's going to take, 1500 gallons uh from experience because he's he's trucked in I think from other cities um I can't read it fast enough to tell you how many that is per week but he had to truck it in to keep his pull level even it was another climate but still it's telling me per year 1500 month I said I said hey if I gave you 750 gallons a month can maintain your pool he said no okay it's going to take, 1500 gallons is what he says hey I'm just I'm just I'm just saying we got to get our numbers seven times no but I mean again the deal is that we there's there's we have to do this on a data driven basis that's so let's get the data but also understand that if if we let the let the pools dilapidate and go down with just the number of commercial pools in town at 22,000 gallons average of water that's 1.8 million gallons of water that's going to go back in the pools that's

[0:41:01] 7.26 acre feet of water well that's a lot of water I understand if you have it it's great so but once once we get out if we if and when we come out of stage three then people are allowed to fill their pools stage two and we're just going to we're going to deplete the water that we got back to go out to to fill pools and things of that nature okay okay I'm I'm I'm I'm basically trying to protect my asset and protect what I've already paid for um you know I'm surprised there's not more hotels here advocating for it but you know I know my number one asset is my swimming pool at my hotel and I need to maintain it so that's why I asked I'll make comment that I I was able to buy a house in Bentwood because the house had a pull that cracked and it couldn't sell the house so they finally just said we'll just take out the pool because it can't sell the house so they took it out and sold it for something like $52 a square foot in Bentwood in 2004 I got that house cheap because of that swimming pool falling apart and that's what worries me is that you you can really damage the value of houses when the swimming pools start falling apart that they're not possible to repair easily sometimes not possible possible to repair so I think that we could have an an pretty big economic Dent put into our home values if we just allow them to crumble it becomes a liability to have a pull for sure and it's not a small one it's a pretty thank you sir would you come and help me with that evaporation number and I'm going to ask you a couple other questions and Mr Abbott maybe you guys could double team this and okay and uh but let's talk about this a second one of the things that I'm wanting to understand is it's really the evaporation rate and the splashing rate right that that determines how much water you're going to put back in yes right okay and is there a standard size of make sure they say their names okay I will I will they haven't started talking yet okay okay let's uh I want you to walk us through what you I mean is there a standard size residential pool more com

[0:43:06] most common more something but we've got to be able to do this as data driven as possible so I'm looking for help on data okay okay so go ahead and please say your names and then start helping uh Craig Hill owner operator of Hill pools Tobin Abbott uh I'm I'm the area manager of Southwest Pools and Spa here in okay your average backyard swimming pool is is going to be a 16 by 32 20,000 gallons we're going to call that average yeah I would 16 by 32 the uh the chemical you're you were asking about wo is is a chemical that forms a molecular level on the pool to cut down evaporation right it's very simple it's 4 oz per week per 20,000 gallons so your average swim pool you're going to put 4 ounces a week in it it's going to cut the evaporation rate by 85% 85% 85% it's printed I meant to bring a bottle with me and and I I forgot it but it's printed on the bottle your solar blankets uh anything you cover on a pull your pull floaties uh a tarp anything is is going to cut evaporation what we're asking or or I guess is if if we do our part in educating our customers um with the evaporation can we we're wanting to do a blanket exception for maintaining the water in swimming pools the water level um okay just with some quick calculations your average pool 16 by 32 when you lose an inch of water out of that pool that's 300 gallons and and you you both service pools as well as building okay and you put 2 in 3 in 5 average inch and a half a week okay that's without any kind of evaporation conservation that's an open

[0:45:10] pool with nothing on it oh well more in the summer Less in the more in the summer yes your evaporation rate I'm sorry 600's the average 600 gallons 300 300 300 an inch of water in your average pole is 300 gallons 600 gallons 300 I know 2 in 600 gallons so yeah 450 inch and a half thanks well is that consistent with your 319 is what I got inch and a half a week oh best an inch 19,000 G what what evaporation rate's about inch and a half a week in any body water right yeah they're the same I mean close oh it's 62 in I used two in okay it's easier but I used 2 in just so the Math's easy and all that kind of stuff and 600 time 50 weeks or would be your your your number so but anyway okay that is good data the product you talked about a solar blanket what is the I mean what's the ability I don't think it's that critical now go and I'm I'm sorry for monopolizing this y'all are pleased but but what is your ability uh starting May of next year here uh if if the council was looking at it along the lines of it's a requirement that there's a solar cover or it's a requirement that there's coverage of some sort uh or that kind of thing I think that's the kind of thing that in the winter makes less sense but something that we probably need to be moving toward if we're going to give some kind of blanket exception on pools that basically saying if you have a blanket exception you are doing the things it takes to reduce usage and so I think you ought to be spending some energy on what that ought to be what's reasonable uh all of those kinds of things and somehow I think we have to have more than the guy that manufactures the product telling us that it cuts down 85% of the evaporation I think there has

[0:47:13] to be a real data driven process there to help us know if we believe that okay um that kind of thing anyway is there other stuff y'all want to make sure we know I I think there are and we have not I I have not done as much uh I guess information wise of finding out you know pool companies in Arizona places in Arizona places like that that do and and I do need to do more of that I mean we're not the only ones that have gone through this obviously there have been other places that have too and so even recapturing rainwater and be able to use that in a pool and you know there's there's many different things there that I guess just kind of like youall have through the history is just now getting our Hickory aquavar going and all that I mean you know with these kind of conditions Force us to start thinking more of things like that and I think that is some more that we need to possibly do too like I said I think our main thing right now is just the you know the it's it's the investment at least for Homeowner Citywide right now not I mean as a pool builder I I can't fill a pool I mean as soon as we go to this I can't fill a pool anyway I realize that I mean it's we've already hurt that part as far as business-wise but it's really kind of we're looking right now as far as trying to protect the or help the homeowners yes sir maintain what we already have in place do you all have questions for them um I think he gave he gave us some data we can use the National Weather Service uh evaporation data from 2010 and 2011 201 you know in 2011 we lost 121 Ines that's phenomenal because average is more like 62 but I have it it's a graph that looks like our electric bill and I think it can be distributed to us but you're looking in the summertime at about 12 in of evaporation um in a before use that pull March through May it looks like about 8 in September it's going be 8 October 7 November 6 you kind of get the idea we can figure this out that's it the same thing when we have to use this chemical when we don't you know I think the chemicals a real problem because how do you how does a code enforcement guy go

[0:49:15] up and they say you know yeah I put that in there and you go you did and I don't know I mean I guess it's up code enforcement same thing with a swim I mean it's it's a little harder to tell if they've got a cover on a pool than they do if they're water in the front yard you know yeah those things are hard I realize there's there a lot of different issues there but okay well is there anything else I I think we've learned some things kind of a standard size pool uh a little bit more about the product and the molecular level of of how it tries to do its work um the solar blanket and anything else that's covering the surface and those kinds of things how many inches per week and and so forth so one of the things that we can do when we're looking at you know whatever we want want to say on that I looked at the San Antonio one and I know it says I believe I believe it's 25% of the pool surface has to be covered with something and that's where they had said that the Inflatables and such like that counts right for that so uh to me that's where we might want to take our model from is some of the other cities have already done that type thing and that was even in their strictest Dr contingencies thanks that's great great input thank you tell excuse me sure tell me one more time a a standard pool 16 by 32 holds how many gallons 20,000 20,000 gallons that making math easy okay other questions thank you all very much okay as into about the code enforcement and the chemical that you're speaking of um I didn't use that chemical I didn't know it was out um at the last council meeting I went and I bought a bottle of it and start using it you'll be able to tell because when you put the chemical in the water that Shield that goes that it provides over top you could actually see the water swirling in the bottom of the swimming pool where before all you see was the water coming out of the Jets at the top of the pool now you can see the water swir at the bottom of the pool okay other things that we can do on commercial pools um to help save money

[0:51:18] and water is we can restrict the hours I'm all four closing my swimming pool um I spoke to ownership about it and told him you know this is what we we really need to pay attention to and do only opening our pools from Memorial Day to labor day which is our peak season throughout the rest of the year maintain it at a level keep the chemical in it for the evaporation lock the gates and just put it and educate the consumers and let them know so you know there's things that we're that we're willing to do on our side to to help in the conservation effort and not lose our assets and and the money we already have in water that we purchased from the city so sir okay thank you very much is there uh someone here that wants to talk about landscape or go come on up come on up appreciate the opportunity to come through here but I go back to the 57s when it was really dry and when it really rained a lot that year so I bring give us your name when the B said nwk he Mr sylvus is asking you to introduce yourself oh sorry I've got two hearing here uh Nicholas araga and uh I've gone through some real harsh experiences throughout my years and from 57 the NW worthy leg trees were drying and they were bringing water from sonot in tanks to keep the trees at west nesworthy lake alive okay what I have in mind is going to be very short and I'll be leaving here pretty quick uh I was reading the paper where we can get penalized at 10,000 above 10,000 uh gallons residential use okay in my house I have 18 trees and they're the only ones I

[0:53:23] worried about and so I do the drip irrigating on the trees drip very very light just just to keep them alive and I can get by with 8,000 instead of the 10,000 because if I go and use according to my buildings that I get if I go and use my 10,000 W I'll be out there with a water hose just running it all over and of course we have an average house pretty big about 2500 square footage and uh two beds and we have a washing machine that my wife is just crazy about using it every day so we use a lot of water but we can leave within 8,000 not 10,000 cuz 10,000 is a lot of water for me and I don't want to pay either because of the high price of water but uh take in consideration instead of the 10,000 make it 8,000 and I'll be more than happy to go along with it thank you very much thank you very much sir thank you Mr mayor council I'm Joseph dubie I live in the 3600 block of Shady Hill Drive in Twin Oaks um primary purpose for coming today is asking for an exemption and I believe uh councilman Alexander uh mentioned in the last meeting that I saw in the paper I was out of town but um where we live it's very uh fragile I guess the land that we have up in that area of town and where say I live on Shady Hill the 3600 block and it's a pretty deep slope there when I first moved in uh my neighbor watered too much I didn't water enough um he suffered severe damage to his house I had small fracturing in my Foundation um we had to replace I don't know 30 40 tiles throughout the house um the Builder who is Tony Jones and he

[0:55:27] could probably speak to this better than I could about the conditions there but uh if it's got to be watered just right and he put in some stuff to help us with that gutters and whatnot he also told me you need the water every week regardless the time of the year and that's where I really got bit in the butt cuz I didn't water in the winter I didn't think it was necessary so the only exemption I'm really asking for is that you just allow people people whether it's everyone's side of town I don't know how you're going to come up with that the city manager I'm sure can figure that out how much we should and shouldn't water but um if I don't water every week I'll be looking for a new home and uh secondly um as a public speaker I've always been taught when you go to speak to people you give them your you know credibility statement credentials so my credentials speaking to you on this issue uh I lived in a drought restricted Island Believe It or Not uh for 18 months on day on and day off water rationing so uh this is nothing new to me um as a matter of fact when I got here in 2000 um not to criticize but I was really astounded that the city was doing absolutely nothing then uh to prevent what's happening today um that's all behind us but I would just ask uh that the city as itself would just do more uh to look at things that we can do going out um I'm in the process of spending $3,000 to Zero Escape my front lawn and I'll probably have to spend about the same in the spring a Zero Escape my back lawn um and and I have no problem with that cuz we are where we are and we have to do what we need to do um so I applaud you at this point to do something and I think our council members in the last couple years have probably done so um I do want to leave this with you guys uh just you like data so uh it's not really

[0:57:32] data numbers but uh just what happens when we don't use common sense uh and day-to-day stuff uh thank you for your time why don't you just go ahead and hand that to Alicia sure in in April of this year we did amend the stage three to protect foundations and so it is in the ordinance sir at this time to protect foundations it's our ability to do so we still have to spe it's our ability to do so we still have to specify it and that's part watering of trees and found hand watering of trees and Foundations with soer hoses is a house that starts moving and shifting really loses a lot of value and it's also I think we need to be watching out for our economy okay with just a little bit of water we can sure save a lot of hardship a lot of value out there outstanding other others that would like to talk about landscaping or come on can can I go back to the car washing for a second no pass that my name is David Steely uh I own Bob's wash service I've been in business here since 1999 I work primarily for the the car dealerships I'm a Mobile Wash I you know I that's just how i' I've been doing it for a very long time uh I do have my own RO system at my residence uh I'm averaging about 38,000 gallons a month that's with my residents used to I'm watching anywhere from 8 to 10,000 cars a month on 38,000 gallons worth of water I've been told by Miss Fox at the water department that that's excellent that that's way under what a lot of the other car washes are are using here in town uh I do try to capture I'm sorry could you just say those numbers again uh I use about 38,000 gallons that's what my that's your residential that's with my that's probably 28,000 or I'm going to say 30 somewhere in there I probably use about 30 thou I use about a th000 gallons of Aro water a night uh you know I I love my job I love this business I know water is very important to our community I know we're running out of it uh there are many things we can do though if you have an RO system

[0:59:35] uh every gallon that you make you're wasting a gallon on a regular RO system even the small ones that are underneath your kitchen sinks now there are steps if you have an industrial size like I do I spend I used to spend $500 to replace a filter well I have two of them it cost me $1,000 to to service my machine I'm I'm spending 3,000 now to service that machine but you know what I don't have any waste water coming off that line not not one bit so there are steps that people can take with these Ro units to save water to where you're not wasting the water you know I think that's very important I do try to capture like I work I work out at FedEx out at the airport you know uh once a week out there uh now the the sitting water that's on their wash pad I do suck it up I try to reuse what I can but I can't reuse I I can't suck up water on the car lots you know I'm trying to do that but it's almost impossible because I use such you know I'm only using two or three gallons to actually wash a car you know so it's kind of real hard to get that up off the ground and suck it up uh I just wanted to kind of come up here and let you know what I'm doing and the steps that I'm trying to take and you know that we there there are individuals that are trying to save water we're trying to conserve as much as we can and you know do you guys have maybe any questions or how many vehicles was that you said 9,000 average you said 8 to 10,000 somewhere between 8 and 10,000 a month that's a lot of cars on very using roughly 30,000 gallons of water and now before I made those changes to my RO system two years ago I was using 60,000 65,000 gallons of water but I'm also working an extra 4 Hour sometimes 5 hours a night by turning just turning down my pressure on my power washer you know it takes me yeah I'm working an extra 20 hours a week I'm not making any extra money doing that but I'm saving two three sometimes 400 gallons a night so I mean there are people that you know some of us are trying really hard to to really watch what we use you know my

[1:01:38] neighbors see me filling up my tanks all the time and are asking me how much water I use and you know they're concerned about it too you know but you know we're we're trying to do what we can and you know I I've been a very successful business for a long time here in town you know so I just just want to keep just keep working you know it's just my life livelihood you know and it's just what I do I'm real good at it and I love my job so I just thank you for your time thank you okay anyone else on landscape U or car washes or swimming pools okay anything else okay is there anyone here that wants to talk about a golf course or another large piece of property my name is Kevin Collins I'm from tpr management and we have the uh golf course management contract uh with the city of s Angelo for Santa Fe golf course uh one of the things I'd like to say as that we realize um what situation we're in um but one of the things I thought we might I might like to point out to you guys is number one golf courses use about 75 to 80% of their water in about a 4mon period of time it sounds like to me I've been sitting here listening to all of the talk and the you know what what our sources are and what we're working on and things of that nature um it seems like there's a possibility that there might be some room for compromise in some areas um at this point for the next five months uh Santa Fe golf course will be using very little water to keep just the greens alive that's all that we would be asking to do is to try to keep just the greens alive it would be about 20,000 gallons per month is all it would take to keep them alive during this 5mon period now obviously once you hit March it's a done deal and there's no question and we agree with that there's not anything that can be done but just for y'all's information you know when when we redid those greens a couple of years ago the price has gone up a little bit to replace them so if we had to replace the greens down there it would be about $2

[1:03:40] per square foot we've got about 40,000 square ft of green space down there at Santa Fe golf and so you're looking at a cost of about $2 per square foot to replace those once they die and then of course the water cost associated with growing those greens back back in which we had in our uh our deal with the city the last time we did the greens renovation um so it's a situation where if we have some possibility for some compromise this is the time that that we're going to be using the least amount of water and it seems to me that rather than going ahead and cutting it off uh and killing them now if there was some way that we could try to keep them alive for four to 5 months and see if it starts to rain again it might be it might PR prudent to do that the total amount of water that we would need in our opinion if it doesn't rain at all would be somewhere around 300,000 gallons to keep them alive I mean it's not going to make them nice it's not going to make them flourish but they W uh no no for this next for this next five months that's an foot little Breer foot yeah it's a little under an acre foot actually yeah oh no was 325 oh you're right it's a little under acre foot so she right there um so it's it's you know it's a situation where uh it seems reasonable to try to compromise in that way again if it was June there wouldn't be really much compromise opportunity there um so it would be it seems to me that it might be uh worth compromising a couple other quick points that you might think about um when you're looking at this and I know this is a very difficult situation for everybody but one of the things that that the tcq does with water R holders is it tells you how much water you have and then you can use it for that month um one of the things I would caution you about is is is doing it by by the day because one of the things that happens if you give me one day of water I'm going to pour it to it to try to save everything whereas if I have a certain amount that I can work with for a month I'm going to use it a lot more wisely and so it's a situation where if you're going to come up with some compromises if you're going to give some opportunities for some exemptions you might take that into consideration because we can be a lot more

[1:05:41] conservative by using the irrigation systems that this gentleman was made a point a minute ago about the irrigation systems our irrigation systems are calibrated to put out a certain amount of water and if we know exactly when to put that water out like at midnight as a as opposed to the middle of the day we can actually save some water in that respect the number that I gave you is figuring in the ability for us to water over about a 20- minute period of time twice a week in the middle of the night when it's going to be the most effective for the water as opposed to having someone stand out on the course and handw water uh throughout the day because it would take a lot longer to do that that square footage in order to do that um just so you guys know we spent about $50,000 to redo the greens when we did them a couple of years ago um if we get to a point we already are at a point where a lot of the the surfaces is going to have to be redone we know that just for your information it would cost about $200,000 to rig the Santa Fe golf course uh in order to take what's what's gone and and fix it um we do have a plan in place for doing some aerifying if it does start to rain if we do have an opportunity to try to save it we do think that a lot of it can be uh can be done if we get the water back I know and everybody in town knows that it's it's a bad situation but we do feel like that there if there is some compromise that during this 5mon period of time would be the only time that there might be a reason to compromise because we can keep them alive while they're dormant by just watering them a very small amount of time so tell me again that was 50,000 gallons per month um it's well it's 20,000 gallons per month would be the minimum in other words I need realistically I need about 2500 gallons twice a week okay if if I bring it in a in a truck and pour it all on the green at one time for all the greens yes yes sir yeah 20 2500 it's uh 25 20,000 gallons per month will keep the greens alive from November to February okay once you get to March things start to grow and I me that that that's part of the deal if it depends on what what we were looking at doing was

[1:07:45] trying to bring in 2,000 to 2500 gallons per time twice a week okay and on a monthly schedule and that's what that's how we came to that figure figure okay and that would the thing about that is it's not very cons that's not very conservation-minded to do that either because you're just going to pour it all on there at one time and hope for the best whereas if we had a way to to mix it we might even be able to do a little less if we were able to just do it a little at a time to make sure we can syringe them and keep them from from failing can you clarify for me 25 2500 gallons per week is per green no no entire course not the entire course we what we have at Santa Fe golf is we got 40,000 square feet of green okay nine holes Santa Fe yes equals about what 10,500 a month 4.3 weeks in a month you wanted it twice a week though 20,000 21,000 okay yes but that's assuming that we don't get much rain obviously if it does if it rains we're not going to do it um but I just want to make sure that you guys recognize that coming in and pourn a big dump and we did that I don't know when we had some issues earlier this summer we actually brought in a water truck and save them by doing that but it's not a very efficient way to do it you just you just put a lot of water on the ground and and let it soak in and and hope it doesn't you know doesn't doesn't die so so you're saying about that that comes out to about 2200 gallons per green not per green no it it's 2200 gallon understand if you take that sorry yes sir per month yes sir yes yes sir yeah about two 2,000 gallons of green per month okay mhm that's bare minimum you you asked oh that that's that's and I've got a little scale here that I can give to you guys and I'll be more happy to email it or however you want me to do of course but realistically this is we've done it where it's 100% flourishing uh you know 75% it's okay 50% at a 50% rate we're just about to kill them and if you get to 25% they're dead so we we've got it figured out down to how much we need to do that and I can I'll be I'll more happy remember when we think about Santa Fe we also think about Bentwood and SEL Country Club and Riverside we think about all of them and

[1:09:48] and quick Santa should we need to know is it all of those courses have alternative sources of water as well um so it would be hard to kind I don't want to speak for all of them I'm you know I'm here pretty much for Santa Fe because I think I believe that all the other courses have either Wells or some other things that they can work so they need to come to a separate and tell us they have a need in order for to consider them I suppose otherwise we're allowing them everybody to water when they have their own sources yeah I think I yeah like I said I don't I don't know for sure those guys most places have water wells all right thank you and and yes email the information first name last name at s angelot texas. us we can do that for you okay any other questions other questions thank you thank you okay any other inputs on large uh pieces of property Golf Course Park uh things of that nature back again sir um I'm not asking for exemptions this time uh my credentials earlier um I'd like to present more on the flip side uh we have a lot of real estate in the city I believe you made that note in the last meeting about how much the city uses itself for water um I'm a baseball umpire and uh it kills me to see the amount of water that's poured on our city parks I don't know if it we need that much for the parks to continue to be green I don't know if the parks need to be green uh at this point in time uh I also work for a very large Federal entity here in the city so I I won't speak too directly to that other than there are a lot of huge Federal entities uh in this city that probably could not be watering as well and I just think it's really time I know that a lot of people need to survive economically I I don't want to see car washes disappear any more than the next guy um I know it's economic

[1:11:51] impact but I think it's it's time that we just start using some common sense as to when we should be watering I know my house we we were told to put in those little gauges so when it rains the sprinklers wouldn't work they don't work we just paid $150 to install them so I would just ask moving forward that you look at some of those things like the gentleman from Santa Fe is right I know where we live I'm on a slope it's Clay surface uh if I use too much at once which is where we're at right now um I talked to I don't Mrs Fox I think was her name uh I guess we came to a gentleman's agreement saying she's the person that writes me up if I not watering properly um water lasts more often and better times a day seem to work much better than watering once for 30 minutes and watch it all run down the street so she educated me pretty well to that and I just think it might behoove the city to start educating uh the city citizens a little bit more too um we're not always proactive in going to the city website um when this all came about earlier in the year I started researching zeros scaping for that reason um unfortunately I found more information in the city of avalene website but it was easy enough to transfer here um so I was able to get a lot of good suggestions but I don't know how the city can do that um I watch you guys most Thursday nights uh lying in bed so for me I get my information there this is the first time I've really had a concern to bring to the council but um again just from my time spent in a small little island with no water uh it's better to act now than to have to really pay a more severe price later okay for Education cuz you you're bringing it up and so I'm going to go ahead and ask for some help here but the there is an imple mentation that has

[1:13:54] already started with the city that uh basically shuts down irrigation by the 1st of October okay answering your question directly actually mayor the sports complex is already shut down okay but anyway so I just wanted to let you know that the city is taking all of this very seriously about its use so we're we're shutting things down as we move forward I always know that mayor cuz you're a great guy and I trust your wisdom like like I said I watch you guys every week and uh I really enjoy watching the city council now so uh just a little kud out because I believe you guys don't get that offer enough and I spoke to Mr silvus a couple weeks ago and um ran councilman Alexander down in Walmart if I have to sometimes only because I thought he was uh my district C or my single member district to find out it's Mrs farmer but uh I appreciate all his time and dealing with me anyhow and um again I just uh it plagues me I guess sometimes to see people don't realize the wasting water that happens and I don't know if the common sense thing isn't always to charge more you know we tried that up north when I was there and charging you more money to use water does not prevent people who have the money to pay for it to stop watering um and then there's plenty of things we can do even within houses ceramic bricks within commodes I mean there's just a a load of things and and I think the city might be better off spending some money whether it be flyers or or some way to get door Todo information uh than it would be to continually just charge more money for water usage cuz I think if you look at places have been doing it I'm not so sure if it pays itself off in the long run okay thank you very much is there more public input at this

[1:15:57] time okay thank you all very much for your input let's move forward then with item number 30 there's a consideration here of adopting a resolution implementing drought level three of the city's water conservation and drought contingency plan presentation was B made by Mr Wy that we are at this point in that uh in that Spa in that place so I'm looking for a motion to adopt the resolution or I'll make the motion to adopt the res resolution I'm looking for a second second I have a second is there any further question or comment from Council I do have one question that sure pertains to our area out of North s Angelo there's a there's an aquafer of water in North s Angelo uh North cono water supply has his straws at the end of Colley Lane he's sending water to Quail Valley he's sending it to Red Creek he's sending it all over norson Angelo in North Tom Green County and there's literally hundreds of families in North s Angelo in Northern Tom Green County that depend upon this aquer the problem we're having right now is that if someone owns property over there they sell the water and we've got trailers that are running every day I can think of a couple of places we've got trailers that are running out there filling up their trailers they're running across town they've got a motor on them and hoses and they water all these trees and they'll water grass and they're getting around the once a week watering but what they're what they are doing is destroy ing an aquafer on North s Angelo and my aquifer my windmill quit working this week so I know that the water has dropped 15t in my in my will it's becoming a very serious problem and if we adopt this ordinance and stop all watering of city water and they come out and and start pulling out of the reservoir in North San Angelo or the reservoir in South San Angelo it's not going to be long and that Reservoir is going to be dry and when that happens there are going to be literally thousands of families in Northern Tom Green County that's going to be drinking dust so I've I've got mixed emotions on

[1:18:02] this because to to enact a drought level where it says they cannot water at all they're going to become to nor s Angelo and pulling water out our aquifers it's we're cutting I'm cutting the throat of my own citizens when we enact this so is there anything we can do I know that the r of capture allows you to sett it if you've got it but is there anything that we can do to prevent these people from hauling water and selling it is there anything that we can do to to not to charge a fee to people that buy water I mean if we're going to say no watering that needs to mean no watering period and not no watering unless you can find someone that will sell it to you so I've got kind of a unique situation here I realize it but when we destroyed that oer nor s Angelo to keep trees and bushes and grasses green somewhere else or to feel swimming pools we're destroying an occer that is going to literally affect thousands of families okay I don't I don't know the answer to your question or you ask is there something I sure don't know what that is and um you know the two things that come to mind are are um staff thinking through some things and I don't know if there's anything there and the waterm I guess what I'm saying is if we're going to say no watering under drought three that means no no watering under drought 3 that means no watering from your city faucets that means no buying water to find someone that will sell it to you and watering but no watering under drought 3 there can be some public healthare and safety regulations that we are starting to look at which would apply to uh the rule of capture issues of water that's accumulated just like oil and gas would be under property and we're going to explore the the extent to which we as a municipality can regulate under the public health welfare and safety police type of regulations and we we're going to be initi we're just initially

[1:20:05] examining that based on a Supreme Court case that recently came out that clarified uh some rights that the city might have well that may work recently yes that it would be illegal to use untreated water that way that will take care of the whale water I really don't know tell that's that's it's a serious problem s farmer it to me in answered your question and I don't know that I'm right by any means but it sure seems like that that would be a restriction of free trade free enterprise of every property owner and the American right to you know sell what they own I I don't know and you're right it's right of capture and that has been taken and challenged in the Supreme Court but I my question and my statement was back to the the motion you know we're looking at a a huge tremendous decision and whether to go to stage three and the amount of water in St Angelo I I know that the existing ordinance was written 20 years ago and to my knowledge it has never been enacted it's never sentiel has never gone to stage three so we're in some Uncharted Territory I personally would rather see us uh postpone a decision on stage three until staff has had the opportunity to come back with allowing us some 90day uh allowances for car washes to continue and to top off swimming pools not fill them up just to top them off uh I really feel like that that should be addressed in the separation of no outside watering absolutely and that end means car washers at your residence your property um but I'm I'm not that quick after this is set on the books for 20 years and I'm not faulting councils

[1:22:07] before me or staffs before existing staff but Dad gimit this is something that should have been addressed before we absolutely had to make the decision that's poor planning in my opinion and I would like to give Council and staff just a little bit more time whether it's two weeks 3 weeks to work out some wording to give us the opportunity to say for the next 90 days we'll exempt you know car washes or or something of that nature that's just my opinion from it to kind of help the existing businesses out there okay my my understanding of it is that you'll be able to do that at the next meeting uh whether you put this in place or you don't so uh because you you moved forward the ability to through the amendment to the uh to the but if we put stage three into effect today it takes effect effect October 2nd our next meeting is after that no it's the second it is the second yes first Tuesday I thought it was fifth second and we can vote no on October 2nd to delay it I don't know what happens to can we do we have to go through two readings again to reenact it that's our problem no I don't I don't but we can vote no and then have another reading change it for the or well for the resolution the water utilities director has so advised you that we've we're at the stage of the trigger point and so now by the resolution you're taking action to implement the new drought level there will be a process of public notice by newspaper publication that needs to take place and then regarding the actual specifics on implementation the water utilities director then will uh initiate the public information component and he will then advise on the specific action which can be um looked at by you that he's going to be advising uh the public which will then go out to

[1:24:10] the media and go to our website but hear me out convince me I'm sitting out there in the audience convince me that this Council will have that item on the agenda October second to discuss you know things have a way of not getting on the agenda when they're requested to be on the agenda hello it happens and unfortunately we're Bound by the 72 hour that we can't my sense of it sorry to interrupt my sense of it is a little different than worrying about it being on the agenda one of the things that Miss bowling just said that that causes pause for me uh is if Mr Wy and the public information office are out saying this will be effective October the 2nd and here are the things that occur in drought stage three and then we come here October the 2nd and make any adjustments related to uh to a swimming pool or an adjustment related to a car wash he he by law and by effort has already told them you can't have a car wash you can't have outside watering you can't so how do we how do we not certainly we we've got the period that the resolution has to be uh published uh to inform the public that this is coming up but obviously you could always adjust and there's a continuing communication that can be put out to the I don't think I mean how can he how can he say here's Dr stage level three and here's what you can't do in drought stage level three and then we meet on the second and say except now you can do these things I don't want him out in front of those those decisions there's no time frame we he could delay his notice his specific notice if you look at the ordinance there's a section called public information and it just describes the information that he is going to formulate to put out to the public but

[1:26:12] it's going to be useful and obviously it can be coordinated with the decision and things that you're looking at it he's not going to do that um unilaterally or arbitrarily well one of the things that's required under in my understanding for going to Drought stage three is a public notice one of the things that Council appears to be concerned about is uh clear communication and a clear knowledge of what they're able to exempt and so if we postpone this item and Recon considered it on the second what would be the earliest reasonable effective date in other words if we approved it on the second you'd still have to go to public notice and and jump through those Hoops uh what would you suggest would be an appropriate amount of time to get that public notice done and whatever whatever other Hoops you need to jump through uh in order for an effective date to be appropriate would you need a week Beyond that so so if we postponed this item for consideration on October 2nd with an effective date on the 2nd of October 9th for example that would give will a week to get his public notice done and he could at that time communicate with certainty about what exemptions had been approved by Council because theoretically that ordinance amend Amendment which allows Council the authority to make those exemptions will be in place and Council will have had an opportunity to consider exemptions uh and that picture will be completed well why not just approve it today and have an implementation data instead of the 2nd

[1:28:14] the 9th and then he withholds all his notices until the second or we say it's the 10 10 or the 11th whatever I'm just I mean it it's inevitable guys or the second meeting in October we're we're going to Drought level three does anybody not think we are saying let's get this thing going and then you but you can withhold uh the implementation if you want for a little bit and then have your notice period and then the next meeting we'll have it but well the notice needs to I mean it's you're making this point but I mean the notice to me the thing is the notice can't say you can't do this and then five days later say but now you can do this we need to wait we we need to have it be the 9th the 10th the 16th something that allows us to get P to the second and make whatever adjustments we're going to make so that when he says we're in drought stage three and here's what you can and can't do it it's clear what he what you can and can't do mayor can I clarify the notice that's going to be published is just the the resolution itself that's the notice that's going to be published in the paper and I think I emailed you the the particular language then I did okay then public information it states the water utilities director will provide reports to the news media with information regarding the current water supply conditions predicted water supply and demand conditions if the current drought conditions continue and consumer information on conservation measures and practices information described in each water stage trigger point and drought level restrictions on water use shall be prepared and publish published on the city website so it could be ongoing there's no time requirement we know that after the resolution is passed today it has to the resolution has to be published in the newspaper the last part you said is the part I'm hung up on M bowling it's where it says he would put on the website the

[1:30:18] restrictions related to each drought stage level MH and I'm saying what's in place right now is not what I think the council is going to have in place with drought stage three if we make any adjustments I don't want someone to see that okay drought stage three is here they go on the website and it says I can't do this I can't do this I can't do this close down my car wash do this or do that he can't say anything differently until the council say right and so he could what I'm trying to say is that he could wait until the council makes a decision and then put the information out there's no time requirement for that for that specific information okay I thought you said earlier that he had to put information ahead of the resolution is published in the newspaper okay but then the public information component that he he will provide reports but it doesn't mean that he can't wait until after the first council meeting okay we're still not really in agreement I because right I wouldn't want to tell the public we're going into drought stage level three but don't tell them what that means I mean it's it's got to be we're going into drought stage level three here's the date that it's effective and here's what you can and can't do I don't I don't okay well that um is even though wouldn't required to I think you have to right so either then you would have to postpone the resolution publishing the notice of it to then be in step with the public information component that's put out you would just have to you know instead of just having uh AG a waiting period yes ma'am you could just do it simultaneously I agree with that okay okay I'm kind of with Miss farmer I mean what is what is a couple more weeks for us to gather more information on even the usage of some of these folks are

[1:32:22] having I mean I I don't want to rush things I know it's we're in Dire Straits but I'd rather get uh numbers you know of what is happening out there for you know for real so I'm with you that if we can wait a couple more weeks we can I don't think we're going to go dry and we waited 20 years what's two more weeks has there been a motion made yet yes yes Motion in a second to approve it as can it be amended to start on November one God not in my not in my motion not in yours okay okay but it could be amended to start on October the something to get this to get us past a couple of these things but okay um now I'm I'm just trying to listen to you all at the same time um I would think that the appropriate way to do this is we talked today we need to be able to come back and make the changes to the ordinance on the second uh I would like to see us adopt the resolution um where we adopt it on the second and the 16th and it's effective the 16th and we and we would know on the second what we've made whatever changes we've made so that when he's telling everybody here's what you can do it it would be effective on the 16th we would have had time to make whatever decisions we're going to make and and so to me that's the way we would move forward it would be the next two council meeting meeting that's that sounds good to me all right I'm going to make that I'm going to resend my first motion make a motion that we table this and consider it again on October the 2nd with the goal that we get this implemented by October the 16th I'll second that motion well okay so I have a vote to table that we would then put this in place October the 2nd making it effective October the 16th with whatever changes we make to the to the drought stage level three through the amendment process on the 2 okay

[1:34:25] that's I'm comfortable with that that's what I'm after all right let's uh take a vote on the table all those in favor please say I I any opposed nay okay I think we're kicking the can down the road okay very good okay we we are the we we need to get this done on the second implemented on the 16th with the changes that we make okay will gave me the nod that's very do okay [Music] okay let's take a short break and then get back in here and start talking about pay back to order it's a it's item number 19 pay and classification study update and a discussion and a discussion of methodology and approval of pay increases for city employees good afternoon mayor and councel last year at the August 30 30th meeting the council asked that um HR staff come back with an update to the Compensation Plan The Benchmark data and to present it at a future date um that is quite an undertaking to redo and resurrect the entire study and we were very fortunate to have an uh graduate student from ASU who volunteered to come in and work unpaid to assist us with uh extrapolating some of the datb data if you bear with me I've got four slides here at the very beginning that just gives you a little bit of background on uh pay and classification to kind of be helpful in some of the terminology that we'll be discussing today um what's also known as classification and compensation uh paying class is really a universal HR tool that we use to um structure positions and we base those on specific job factors and those include some of the items that are listed there the complexity of the work what are the consequences if a person makes a mistake in their position how much money are

[1:36:27] they responsible for uh what are their job duties Etc then jobs are grouped together based on how closely those job factors match each group is then assigned a pay grade um and that's based on Market rates for those particular job factors then each pay grade has a pay range based on what the market is and the pay range has a minimum a midpoint and a maximum salary we actually compare midpoints when we're talking about uh doing a pay study and the reason for that is that the ranges for particular jobs can vary in width from minimum to maximum but the midpoint is going to be consistently the middle of that range and in the example here you can see that uh with these three different employers for a specific job all of them have different pay ranges varying in widths but the midpoint stays consistent what happens in these situations are throughout the span of those ranges employees are sprinkled throughout between the minimum and the maximum so the average midpoints are what we look at and in that last example 40,000 was the average for those three jobs and in an example let's say if the city of San Angelo midpoint point is 30,000 then the San Angelo midpoint in that example is at 75% of the average okay so that's what we're talking about today the original paying class study that we're talking about was performed back in 2007 and 8 um in both 2008 and 2009 we made adjust adjustments to the pay ranges and we gave salary increases as a result you've asked that we update update the study and that was done during the months of June and July of this year we invited 13 cities to participate there were four that chose

[1:38:31] not to uh submit data and those were Bowmont Temple Tyler and Waco theya did they State why they wouldn't share information or they just chose not to participate it's a very busy time of year when everybody's doing budgets and it's a pretty comprehensive study so um I'm not surprised that we got turned down originally how big is Colleen I beg you pardon how big is Colleen well let me get that data out it is one of our comparable cities 130,000 okay thank you MH and these uh original 13 cities were the ones that were used the first time around in our study and the first time around in our study there were 223 jobs that were compared and so those same 223 titles were compared with these nine cities in 2008 the pay ranges and salaries that fell below 85% of the average those were raised to 85% and then the council asked us in 2009 to move all of the ranges up to 90% however that year we only had funding that would support movement up to 87% of the ranges or I'm sorry 87% of the midpoints at that point in time all 39 of the pay ranges were at least at 87% or higher of the surveyed cities here's where we sit in 2012 with three years behind us since the last time we adjusted the ranges three of our grades fall between 65 and 69% of the average 12 are between 70 and 79 10 are between 80 and 86 and 14 are at 87 or

[1:40:37] better so in the three years since the last time we adjusted the ranges uh 25 of the 39 pay ranges have fallen off the mark from where we were 3 years ago and this affects 42 29 employees with very heavy concentration in the lower pay grades and I have a scale here it's a little difficult to read but the point being that the blue markings indicate how many employees are in each of the grades the grades are located at the bottom of the screen and run from left to right lowest to highest and then the survey data telling you what the percentage of the midpoint is is the uh vertical on the left hand side so you can see that in the lower grades those listed to the left where all the the big blue lines are that's where our concentration of employees lie now if you look at the 80 line you can see where the grades are that fall above 80 and where the ones fall below 80 so it it truly is a concentration of the lower grades can I ask a question certainly um the graphs that you're showing us was not included in our packets I for one would just appreciate the information in in advance so I have more time to study it sure and be have smarter questions to ask okay the day of uh and I I just would prefer to receive this information in advance I understand thank you [Music] m so the low salaries obviously impact obvious things recruit retention and morale um we presently have 46 vacant positions with the city and 26 of those vacancies are in pay grades that fall below 80% and if you look through the um listing here of some of our vacancies

[1:42:40] you can see that um there're titles that we're all familiar with ones that we talk about from time to time our code imp compliance officers our animal control people our admin assistant our fire drivers our paramedics lvns light equipment operators heavy equipment operators so they're all in positions that are really critical to our day-to-day functions and we're having extreme difficulty in filling these positions so is there some sort of a fix that we can do council at the last meeting with the budget approved a 3% equivalent pay increase across City wide the funding that that 3% represents we could use to um actually do one of two different scenarios that I presented here today um the discussion at the last meeting was to award a 3% average Merit increase for all employees or for some employees at a particular salary cut off um that would be one choice or the second choice would be to uh bring the applicable pay ranges up to 80% % of the survey and apply the remainder of the funds at a 1.25% Merit increase for those who meet or exceed expectations based on their performance um I've met with budget and we have enough money based in the 3% um that was approved in the budget to be able to bring those ranges up to 80 um with your permission to do so our recommendation would be to solve the problem let's fix the ranges and um not try to treat the symptoms by just giving out Merit increases that would be our recommendation okay questions what would be the dollar amount on fixing the ranges is it what we have budgeted yes how much was it three can you just go back once what was

[1:44:44] the dollar man well the dollar amounts different in different places okay in the general fund it was $550,000 for most people and $327,000 for meet and confer and but that doesn't I mean there's there are salaries in a lot of other silos but that was the general fund I remember now so in in working closely with the budget people we did determine that there's enough money to do the 80% plus the 1.25 with the the funds that were left over after doing the 80% tell me go ahead I'm sorry tell me how the Merit increases I mean is it the supervisors evaluating the employees and then they bring it to your table and you you determine which ones Fair better than the others or no a supervisor grades their employees some of the supervisors have the employees do a self- evaluation first in order to see how the employee believes they've done um but then supervisors will grade them those supervisors have their department heads sign off on the evaluation first to make sure that it's meets within their their understanding of how the employees performing and then um they meet with the employee and go over the evaluation and then they come to HR and we load them into the system is it safe to say that every employee gets a merit increase or some don't no um there are some that fall below expectations and when those occur they do not get increase they're put on a probationary period for performance and they're given a period of 3 months to improve and at that time they receive another evaluation in January of each year and if um so we do our evaluations during the month of September they become effective October 1st they have October November December to improve and they get another evaluation in January and if they don't improve at that point

[1:46:46] another 3 months can either be extended or they are let go based on performance so on the first scenario if I meet I I qualify for an increase surely if I exceed I know I'm probably correct but if I meet do I qualify yes okay Mr Morrison where in the pay scale will most of these raises go to bring them up to 80% in which which classification would it be those on the bottom those in the middle those on the top it's all of these it's the ones on the bot B them for the most part it's from had them from grade three on the left side do you see the grade three which is a lower grade is is at about yeah there's one person in a Grade Three there but they would definitely if you took it to 80% they would definitely go up right yes because right now they're sitting at 70% and you listed those those are mostly code enforcement yeah it right there that's who would if you did option number two that's right there who would receive the most of the bulk of the raises to bring them up to 80% and that would leave 1.25% to go to people who exceed expectations all right meet or exceed meet or exceed yes well those people on the bottom the ones I want to be brought up absolutely I mean you give a 3% raise to someone making $100,000 that's that's three that's $3,000 a year but the man that makes 18,000 only gets 540 per year you're right and then most of those that are making 70 and above there's 44 that earn more than 70 31 of those already get a car allowance on top of that Mr Morrison if you look here if you did the 80% deal that number 33 that item the person in classification 33 would get some kind of a raise to go up but otherwise most of them are going to be on the bottom and and in the lower

[1:48:47] middle I don't have I don't have a problem just to give you a good example here um are people that are at grade 11s which are the admin assistants and some of the other jobs that I listed on there um they're falling at 69% what so they'll get an 11% what is the mid-range of that group of a grade 11 yes 25 it is 26794 those are the people those are the people that need the raise so that they can make a living so they've got a livable salary absolutely the midpoint was 26794 that's correct the minimum is uh 11 21435 is the minimum and the top of that grade 32 155 thank you MH so I know councilman Morrison you've talked about that quite often and this particular chart really screams at us to tell us that it's those low I would like to see it where nobody in the city makes less than $10 an hour now that's that is my dream that's my goal where everybody makes $10 an hour they can live on that and if they don't work then they go find a job somewhere else but I think that most people if you pay them a living wage they'll work and they'll try and that's what I'm trying to get to I would like to get those bottom wages up sure so that these people can afford to work and afford to live now if you look at our great the great set um which that particular range came in at 85% so you can see that the line is above the 80 there's 63 people in that classification and those are our maintenance workers and so they are you know they are out there every day working very hard and and the the starting salary for that position is is pretty low but it compares favorably with what other cities are paying but now what what this does do is the light equipment operator is the position that maintenance workers achieve to be

[1:50:50] and the light equipment operators are in the grade 11 where they're going to get an 11% raise so that's going to give our maintenance workers a place to move to which I believe I could accept that because it's it's doing basically what I want but I still want to work on those on the bottom okay let's go back go ahead I was going to say going back to those vacancies that you showed that doesn't necessarily mean those are all at the bottom is that right these aren't all at the bottom these are all they are all jobs that fall below 80% she said 46 there are 46 vacancies let's I mean if you look at that the math says that about I don't know 60% of the people are below 80% 40% of the people that where there's a vacancy are above 80% so it's not I mean it's not a Telltale that that's the issue but but anyway is there other question I need to recognize Mr hfield Mr hfield uh go back to the slide of the the little bar graph more there there you go okay so if we do this this year we'll be solving this problem and we won't be kicking the can down the road anymore we will solve it for this year solve it for this year and I realize that times change and some of that happens but it next year when when it comes up we will have hopefully equalize thing close the gap where uh we're not facing this at least as much correct Fair statement Fair statement but it's it's something that needs to be done every year I mean truly in a Compensation Plan you want to adjust for the ranges as well as Merit increases that's how people move but but I do know that over you know there was a plan to start this and then it just kind of we ran out of money we ran out of money I know and so then it just kind of died down so uh we've had a couple years where it just had nothing not much has happened so this is our year to maybe get things closer to to where they need to be correct corre okay and then then one more statement on one more clarification on that this excludes meet

[1:52:53] and confer correct it excludes meet and confer But it includes fire okay got it I'll make a motion to accept option two okay of the pay grade and pay raise just go back go to that slide just to make sure I have one more question and then I'll probably second it that's the option to is bring appical pay ranges up to 80% of the survey and apply the remainder of the funds in a 1.25% Merit increase for those who meet or exceed expectations I'll second that what would it do if we took the money that we have and just figured out what we could do is at per hour raise 50 cents an hour and gave 50 cents an hour from the lowest to the highest How would how would that work would that would that level would that level the playing field would that bring us up to 80 all that would do would pay no that wouldn't change your ranges at all it would not it would only give the people uh an increase salary but it wouldn't help us for bringing new hires in because they come in in that pay range so this fixes the range in addition to moving the people this gets us closer to closing the Gap that is correct and we may not get it all done this year but it's a start forward we'll I'll get to 80 this year we'll tweak it again next I have a motion I have a motion in a second to take option two which is to bring all the applicable R pay ranges up to 80% of the survey and apply the remainder of the funds in a 1 and a qu% merit increase for those who meet or exceed expectations any further questions on this okay is there public input on this item okay Council I appreciate your time um in previous discussions that I've had up here one of the things that that we have discussed was the previous compensation study where uh previous councils and I know you can't hold any anybody accountable for previous councils but had made a commitment to do that and and through that process we were actually

[1:54:55] supposed to be at about 95% now uh and we're just we went back we fell backwards um the point I want to make is I know that some of you won't be here next year and some of you will and for those of you that will I hope that you will make the commitment to follow through with this compensation study and and you know it is important that that we're able to recruit and uh keep employees I think it is is the same for all the city doesn't matter how much money you're pumping into any kind of projects that we want to do here in St Angelo if you don't have employees to do it it's not going to get done um that also being said I I I I appreciate that we are making this movement at least but I do want to emphasize this is 80% uh which is 20% below the average okay I mean that's that's where we're at we're 20 below the midpoint midpoint average as she said up here I think earlier and everybody sh there's also things that could be challenged about this Chief and they are why are we why is leuk even in this what so I mean so what I'm saying is I I think this is a great move I think that it makes sense but I don't know what the numbers should be and I'm not I'm not at all convinced that Lok ought to be a comp a comparable City for us I'm very convinced that which fall should be I think that the cities were picked uh by a study that the previous comp we picked Benchmark studies when we first started this and whichs was in there but I mean with a consultant with a consultant's help and we're going back to that and we're moving forward with the same cities but but all I'm saying is you know I just don't see Lok with that tax base with 250,000 people with I just don't see us as being the same as them what I do like though is what Mr Morrison's saying I'm glad that we're making some moves on on as you saw the bars I think this is a good move I would I would struggle to say that we would get to 95% unless it's 95% of some of those cities not all of those cities

[1:57:01] that's why I was that's what I wanted to say sure appreciate thank you I understand what you're saying Chief though you're right but I mean we need to bring it up so that we can be more competitive we have to and I you know unfortunately uh I'm probably the only department head that gets up here publicly every year to emphasize that to y'all yeah but I guess it's because I can without a retribution that's why we keep you around I have a question while the chief is here but the are we going to talk about the meeting fer after this or it's already it's already an agreed upon deal and it's already done I guess my question for for the Mee and confer can I ask a question about that yes I think you can is pay does all your staff participate in it or are some ex uh some aren't in it some how does that work the uh the civilians in the department do not and administration does not so the assistant Chiefs and myself do not participate in me confer so the your assistant Chiefs would then fall under this the 1.25 okay absolutely I do believe in in this uh category our sants fall below the 80 percentile even with the me for a contract as well is that the 33 is that 33 no no it's lower than that okay that's all right I appreciate it I just I saw where the Su in the middle some in the middle and one pretty far over was below 80% so right and and the the one the sergeants at PD with the meet and confer agreement that we have in place that will move it to 80% it's sitting at 79 right now so it it'll move up as well 80 seems like we definitely have to be there I have one more just to learn and again I'm with Charlotte I think she I wish you would have given it to us early I wish earlier go back to the bars graph yes whoops wrong way sorry tell me who was a pay grade three and who's a 47 just who in as far as job titles a three is our custodian MH and our 47 is the city

[1:59:05] manager and how about a 21 that's 21s those are accountants the air airport operations coordinator Athletics and Aquatics supervisor business analyst business and Finance analyst fire inspectors the internal auditor multimedia coordinator planners Recreation supervisor registered nurse and the transportation planning analyst okay I'm just trying to get an idea what yeah what was in there I had the internal auditor is a position we've been unable to get uh qualified applicants for um that's a discussion we had in uh with the audit committee um and we're just struggling so maybe this will help us get qualified applicants thank you okay I got a motion in a second related to item number two I I repeated the motion it's it's there in front of you and is there any further public input okay let's call for that vote all those in favor please say I I I any opposed outstanding thank you okay okay folks um would you like to do 21 22 through 28 uh would you like to table the rest of these and be done for the day what's your pleasure I would like to table 22 through 28 there's no 21's also related to that Mr Morrison did we not do 21 did we do 21 I don't think we've already done 2 oh I'm sorry 22 22 through 28 okay I just want to remind everyone I mean I'll I'll go for daing tbling it until our new city manager's here but I just want to state that these Fe Fe have been approved um in our budget process it's been approved and you can always today you can approve these but set your effective date for say January 1st and then that way there will be from now until the first of the year to put out the notice for the

[2:01:07] people to get accustomed to and adjusted and plan in their budgets for these fee increases if we continue to postpone people cannot make a good business plan to put it in their budgets and that's why my recommendation or my motion would be to accept them today and not make them effective till January 1 okay you made it in the form of a motion did you second me y I think we don't I made a I made a motion to table 22 through 28 I don't know if I got a second or not I think I don't think we voted through that Mr Morrison we didn't vote it through to approve all these I mean that's what she just made a motion for is approve them all approve them all with a January 1st effective date so people have three months this quarter of our Revenue we projected but quarter we can handle and I like the idea of saying hey you know what you get your stuff and get it going yes you you give the people a plan to make their budgets and you give them the opportunity to approach just for some sort you know amended and whatnot before January 1 but we're making the decision and getting on down the road the decision's been made the money's in the budget I mean you know it's it's been made it's just implementation of this it's what we said earlier we're either we either are going to pass these through or we're going to have to to do something else in the budget because we depend on this money to make the budget work so okay well I'll second that I'll Alicia did I make a motion but nobody second your motion okay you did Mr morison but it didn't get a second and it didn't get voted through I didn't hear your motion I heard the statement but not as a motion okay I heard the statement but not as a motion I'm sorry okay now okay now that's 22 through 28 it's all the items that were in the

[2:03:09] budget I have a motion in a second so now let's ask for call for questions uh comments those things you know if if we're going going to and I'm with Mr Morrison I I wouldn't mind tabling it for the next time around if it's if it just means a couple more weeks I think that revenue is still coming in somebody's still going to go out there and buy whatever they need to purchase you know permits or alarms or whatever it's it's not going to stop is that right I mean well no you're not going to be at the new fee though and again the issue is what they said this fee would do is cover the in other words you put a budget through through at $54.5 million that included this Revenue so if you take this $250,000 of Revenue out then you're not covering some of the expense sorry am I I get a number wrong no you you're you're on the right track there but I think you were going to hit a conclusion that that would leave us short the budget that was approved because there was a surplus because there was a surplus yes sir but I mean the Surplus I mean I go back to what Mr hfield said way back when when there was a surplus when you think about the Water fee and the and whether or not we're going to what's going to happen with the the sell of water and should we have money and so you're spending money now that you you might want to have later that's perfectly said though I sure appreciate it uh because you do have a surplus in the budget so the fact is if you didn't want to do this you could still be okay but are we just talking about a twoe delay or no she said January the 1st which allows you know allows the city manager that we've hired to come on on October the 10th allows him a lot of time to look at these come back to you and say I'm not sure you ought to do this I mean and take corrective action and all that kind of stuff I mean she gave you a lot of room I guess that does the same thing I was wanting just from a little different direction it just I mean it doesn't go to infect immediately it gives our city manager time tojust look at them to look at the budget to how it affects the budget and it gives the citizens the business owners

[2:05:12] especially to know what's the users that use these fees the opportunity to build them in their annual budget or Express their opinions to us yes I like that I I I'll go with you on okay there already approved I mean I understand that but we can adjust we can adjust if we feel necessary I mean so they will not go into fake till January 1 that's what her motion is okay her motion is the to accept them as presented but with the January 1 implementation date okay further questions or comments public input on this item call for this vote all those in favor please say i i i i any opposed n okay mayor I think we need to give the crystal ball of the day award to council member farmer back when we were trying to put a proposal together we were asking Council how they felt about these things and this was exactly what she said the fees I understand I'm not happy about them but I understand if we can give folks a little bit of time so this was her initial suggestion months or several weeks ago so congratulations for crystal ball very well broke it I definitely will be talking to new the city manager I hate to give the taxpayers 180,000 then turn around with the other hand and take 250 away from them that's that's going the wrong way so item item number um 31 is related to the drought stage three and so should probably be tabled and dealt with when we're dealing with those items item number 32 I would suggest that we let move back and be on the next agenda again it's 4:50 I'd like to see us move forward with preparing for the next M meeting and and get out of here is that okay with the rest of you yes sir okay so let's move to H followup and administrative consideration of matters in in the executive session there's nothing to be uh brought forward item number 34 this is the various board nominations the design and historic review commission so we have uh Bill

[2:07:14] Carter Benjamin vial Hal milky and Gary Donaldson and uh we have Margaret Mard the uh is motion to approve uh okay as presented second okay got a second is that a and b That's A and B okay okay so Development Corporation also oh I'm sorry that's a that's a I okay I was looking at the two items to the okay she's doing a only Mr hfield also a only with a second call for that vote all those in favor please say I I any opposed I make a motion to approve B second okay motion the second on B all those in favor please say I I I any opposed okay 35 announcements and consideration of future agenda items just for the record I will be at the ports Plains quarterly meeting in the next 1st of October I will not be here I will be at Port ples thank you we need uh Dr level three I won't be here either really you for Dr three folks folks you better you better hear that what what did you just hear you heard two people not here um so um that was October 2nd right folks both of you all right so now we need to be talking about I mean we don't need to be down to whether or not Mr Adams is here and that kind of thing making those decisions that's one two 3 four five um do you want to put together a special meeting do you what do you want to do when October uh 9th I'll be back by the 9th but I'll be gone that entire first week the 9th and the 16th is that going to meet muster with everybody back

[2:09:17] to on the let me look at my phone well I really feel like we need to stay with the 16th because I really do want that drought stage three to get kicked in so uh the thing is then you're not giving them any notice uh which I hate I mean I wish we were doing the second and the 16th well Charlotte September 28th Charlotte are you going to be gone all week that's no I'm I'll be gone to the ports Plains oh you'll be with yeah okay but all week you'll be gone I won't be gone all week SE going all week that week already easy I mean I realize it's a another meeting next week but can we I can't move it to next week I'm out the 25th the 25th I but there's the 24th 26th 27th 28th I mean since we're going to call a special meeting it doesn't have to be on Tuesday okay plus um this is the annual board meeting of the port Plains um possibly we you know should discuss because board reappointment time is up and that should be discussed as well I'm I'm out next week I'm out on the 25th 26th I could do the 27th if you're trying to do it ahead of time I can do the 27th or the 28th either one or the 24th 24th well I would be a little late but I could be here on the 24th 24th is not the 24th 25th th and 26th aren't

[2:11:20] aren't good dates for me the 27th is a good date I'll look at the 28th well if y'all are just if y'all will get with Fred and just let him know that he needs to be here that day you'll still have your [Music] Quorum the second just we're just uh we're making big decisions exemptions of drought level three and that's that's what I have a problem with well again what about the 27th works for me what why did I say the must be in the wrong month hang on September the 27th yes sir Dwayne the 27th yeah as far as I know I'll be all right there I'm okay Mr Alexander good Mr hell I I may be a little bit late but I'll be here okay Miss farmer 27 let's move the 2 to the 27th please okay 27th no October 2nd meeting you said no o meeting we're going to have September 27th and then we're going to have October the 16th didn't that work I can't find a reason why it doesn't work okay no objection okay thank you while you're contemplating that I'd like to talk about get some guidance on the ports to Plains board appointment had communication from Costa DC board that they would like some input on that uh they fund our membership but that appointment has always existed as a member of council and Council has always made that selection I think staff would appreciate your guideance for how you'd like that process to move forward well to me with all things uh on

[2:13:26] all boards whether it's Costa DC the Downtown Development Corporation any of them you know we as Council answer to the public and we approve budgets for those and uh I firmly believe the decision belongs to council with recommendations or input from their seat of their person that sits on coity seat that's certainly acceptable and to discuss but uh those kind of decisions um it it does to me doesn't fall under the realm of the cadc board I would I would concur I mean I believe that you know when I look at the the role of and and I haven't been there so I don't know what it is but I would have to presume that you know really the the role on this thing is more of a lobbying type you know you know discussion I don't want to say influence but you know trying to uh convey big picture items of you know with other uh probable I'm assuming uh elected officials and some accounts and I mean I I think it needs it's appropriate where it is and our City's goals the city council's goals within that port to Plains Corridor I mean we oversee the big picture whereas our various boards see their section of it and only their interested section of it and I'm happy for their input also but welcome it but it will be I think it's our decision then uh unless I hear objection what we'll propose is that we have an agenda item for that appointment on our next meeting on the 27th and if there is an opportunity for Coosa DC to provide input or recommendation uh or they can attend our meeting and provide input directly at the meeting uh we'll proceed that way all right thank [Music] you I also show uh that we need an

[2:15:29] agenda item for exceptions to Drought level three if we consider drought level three on the 27th that'll be the second reading of that ordinance Amendment with and at that point Council will have the author uh authority to Grant exceptions and so we'll have an agenda item in accordance with uh con considering and acting if necessary on that and then question mayor we may have an issue on the um item 14 the second reading for the general development standards on that um visual clearance on Corner Lots you know normally that has to be published I just need to clarify that with AJ so that makes an issue on that one so it would if it didn't meet it would go to the next meeting right I think that I think that the media Matt I think that these people all left the room thinking October 2nd is their day to come pitch their argument to be Exempted and now it's it's a different day so make sure it's clear in the paper that the council moved it up to the 27th I really think it's a very important thank you Matt you demand what else you can print that too I had one and I shared with Michael and how did I phrase it to you on the The Parks I had yeah you want me to go or you want to go you go ahead we've got a piece of property a couple of years ago when we were going through a tough time in the budget one of the things we talked about well this is back you know we talked about a a park property earlier today during that same conversation there are Miss miscellaneous small patches of property around the city that are uh owned by the city and we talked about varying maintenance levels associated with those during that budget process a couple of

[2:17:31] years ago we talked about not maintaining those or maintaining those at a lower level um councilman silvus has been uh an advocate for a particular piece of property and would like that on the agenda to consider and so uh that that's one of the things we talked about and I like your idea that there we have an option or of maybe planting some wild fliers out there at that area because you it does need some TLC okay and I and I mentioned it to Carl earlier that if and we talked about the park that we talked about and I said if that thing is getting maintained or mode I was told different I was told that nothing was being done not to that one not to any other Park and then I get thrown in this 10t parameter around the park that that they're doing but I think folks around town you especially on the east side of s Angela always look at that and I'll run into them and the stor hey that that little piece of Park property looks terrible but I like your idea of maybe we can add some wild flowers and get prisoners Who come out there and just kind of cultivated in some way that even even that is a is a shot in the arm of the way it looks like now so that's my interest I I feel like most of those things should be mowed enough to kept in other words we if Code Compliance would say we need to write that person a ticket we need to be susceptible to that level policy right now that level of I'm not saying we should be written a ticket Mr Alexander I'm saying we should be let go yeah we should be thinking yeah but we should be thinking look if if we would make somebody mow that go mow it uh and in there that's probably where we ought to be then we need to get on it because these things are growing trees and I got consents uh complaining saying what what happened how come you don't have to follow the rules and yeah if we want to be the most desirable City by the year 2027 you know we need to plant the seed now so to speak and get some of

[2:19:34] those things looked at I don't want us to be exempt from things we make other people do okay well well that that happened about 3 or four years ago three years ago maybe years ago four I think the most effective way is bring back a discussion of this particular property and we do and we can have them report back on their mowing schedule but yes we try to adhere to our own rules if we get in a rainy spot yes sometimes we get behind on that as others do in the city but typically we try to adhere to our own rules although those may be you know more than I would want my my yard taller but they but some areas are suitable to be to go back to a natural state and I think that this one was one of those with a with a a border around the edge and if Council thinks that that's not an appropriate way to treat it we can certainly talk about it you bet got I got you well you know if if we're going to handle this one park we talked about and I've seen it and it's been a couple weeks ago and it was completely mowed you know if I could see if I would see the 10-ft perimeter mow and the inside growing and like you know it naturally grows then I have no problem but if it's if you're going to treat one area this way well you it needs to be the same everywhere else you know and I don't want to hear those folks saying well look at our little pad you know little park over here so anyway I'm we'll bring we'll bring back an item to discuss that too I have a question with reference to who maintains the intersection at Southwest Boulevard and the loop uh it's an extremely poor condition it's worse than a washboard and I've received numerous complaints and I was under the impression it's text Dot but I'm not real sure so um if you could take a look at it and let me know sometimes between now and before the next council meeting I would appreciate it go check on it generally if you ask us we're going to tell you that if it's good we've we've done it and if it's bad it's somebody else's fault but we'll try to get an honest answer for you okay and again uh last November I had requested uh at the intersection of Sunset and uh

[2:21:39] borgard or sherard way excuse me Sunset and Sherwood Way um that the little city bumps markers that you put the show the turn lanes and divider that it was extremely poor condition on both sides especially the side where Academy is and that we really needed to get those markers out there and Harold checked into it and someone in the maintenance division said they would be on it it's never been done and we really need to get them done the traffic out there the congestion the reflectors and the doubl sided so because people pulling out of the stripe store and Academy and turning into the shopping it's nobody knows where the turn lane starts and ends okay let me get us back on future agenda items anything else motion to adjourn second third okay call for that vote all those in favor please say I I we're [Music] Jed [Music]

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=_2ITf0zP2OA