City Council Budget Workshop 7-27-21

[0:00:00] 7 2021 city council budget meeting notice is hereby given of a special meeting of the city council city of san angelo to be held july 27 2021 at 9 00 a.m at city hall east mezzanine 72 west college avenue san angelo texas for the purpose of considering the following agenda items number one obviously calling the meeting to order which we have done at 901 am we will open up for public comment issues or concerns not on the regular agenda may be raised by the public at this time citizens should speak from the podium address all comments to the diaz begin by stating their name and address or single member district number and limit their remarks to less than three minutes item three on the agenda is the workshop itinerary with a as a discussion of matters regarding the fiscal year 2021 2022 budget preparation including but not limited to one public works operating funds revenue and expenditures which tina will present and then two opportunities for additional revenues for capital projects shane kelton and then three other items needing council attention so we will start with item a one public works operating funds revenue and expenditures tina euron well tina's not here good morning mayor city council kimberly hawley budget manager tina's unable to be with us today so i will be um presenting in her absence if you have any questions please feel free to stop me i've got one to start with when i look at the june 30th 2021 and i look at the property tax dollars as as of july 30th it shows that we're at 98 percent but we're 814 350 dollars under the budgeted number can you explain 814 350 um because it looks like we're going to

[0:02:05] have a shortfall on property taxes yes and how is that so the majority of our property tax comes in early in the calendar year january february however we do have some lingering payments that come in throughout the year so historically we do receive a hundred percent of that budget so we're not nervous of not getting the 814 350. no i'm not at this time okay proceed yes ma'am all right so the last workshop we discussed the other enterprise funds and today we're going to discuss the water fund water reclamation solid waste and storm water and then again at the next meeting on august 12th i'm sorry august 12th we will be discussing general fund including property tax and sales tax projections starting off with the water fund you'll see a slight increase in water sales there is not a projected increase to the water rates however the department is projecting a slight increase in consumption in looking at again the june 30th 2021 numbers on the water fund it looks like we're going to miss the plan does that read what everybody is everyone reading that like i'm reading it yes we're currently at 79 percent through our water sales budget at 75 percent through the year with most of our um heaviest consumption months to come so i wouldn't project a shortfall okay all right and then we have our other line and that includes interest income leases and auction proceeds and sale of material as well as transfers in uh is in the

[0:04:07] other line and that is uh the sole or the largest change in the increase in that is how we are allocating the transfer from development corporation to pay for the west texas water partnership annual payment uh that was historically done in our capital account now that their contract has been executed we're putting that in the operating fund all right so we're not increasing any of the water rates so where are we getting the one million one hundred forty two thousand two and forty seven dollars in additional sales correct so the last increase occurred in 2020 january one 1. we are seeing in increased sales with the development and every uh or those type of aspects in 2020 or 2019 our deliveries were roughly 12.8 or 12.5 million gallons in 2020 we saw that average go up to 13.3 so ultimately we're sending more water out through our distribution system consistently on a daily basis so with the 13 million plus gallons per day talk to me about our water supplies we're still holding steady with water supplies i re-ran those numbers because we do receive updates for lake ivy in january and so as of january 1 we were 59 months of water supply that's still with only allocating a billion and a half gallons from the hickory so we do know that we're moving forward with that expansion and we can look at reallocating how much we bring in from the hickory on a daily basis or into that calculation but ultimately that only calculates a million and a half gallons daily from that from that in terms source more water if we need it from hickory aquifer still at 8 million gallons currently the expansion will go up to 12 so we can look at bumping that daily allocation up and it would increase those months of water supply tceq has approved those treatment plant

[0:06:10] design for that expansion and now that's being passed to text water development board for their review once it receives that next regulatory review then we can proceed with bidding that project out what do you think the time line on that is i would hope in two months or so with texas water development board so would you perceive in 2021 2022 budget that we would be within that year time frame that we would start the production or the work on the new water treatment yes i would consider construction to begin during that 2022 range um but we wouldn't up the allocation until that project was completely done so probably in the late 2023 or early 2024. so at this point we don't see any negative impact on water supply relative to water use correct okay thank you all right moving over to expenditures we have a slight increase in personnel due to some staff turnover and explain that there was a change in distribution of the executive director position historically that was charged all to the general fund we felt it was more appropriate to charge that out amongst the divisions that they supervise and allison how do you feel about that no comment okay keep on going all right we have a decrease in o m that is related to our reef or not sorry refinancing of the hickory and we also had the sale of the ford ranch therefore our debt payment decreased um and then we have a and so at this point we have paid off the debt borrowed to buy the ford ranch we would project that to be complete by fiscal year end so there's still a council action to be taken

[0:08:12] to close out that that bond and that's being or tina and vince are working on that currently so we would see that sometime soon okay all right um and then there also is the increase that allison mentioned for the west texas water partnership all right any other questions on the water fund any questions from council members proceed okay transitioning to water reclamation we are not projecting an increase for charges of service there rates again have remained the same and we're not seeing the consumption increase in water reclamation that we're seeing in water so that is budgeted flat with 2021's budget sales and wastewater are different in terms of the volumetric charge residential customers receive the first four thousand gallons without a volumetric charge and also the sewer fee is also based off the winter quarter average so while we see those increases in the consumption side of water because of the fee structure in the wastewater side we aren't we're seeing that those revenues are staying stable you know what i didn't ask on the previous slide i'm going to ask now is we created the program for low-income families low-income households on the water issue how has that worked out um so we have authorized fifty thousand dollars annually to go towards that program on a typical year um or at least the one year of pre covid that we had those funds were spent out or allocated within the first two and a half to three months of the year so that program starts in january concho valley community action agency

[0:10:15] administers it and those funds go quite rapidly the during the coronavirus relief funds we allocated an additional hundred thousand dollars to that program and they are i believe those started in late 2020 and they are basically i think there's a last time i checked around seven or eight thousand dollars left from that so in 2020 ultimately 150 000 went to that program but i can tell you it is highly used and the funds do go quickly and um how are we budgeting those funds this year for this this budget we are budgeting the 50 000 contractual um or the allocated price that we've set for that program but knowing that that's going to go fast do we not need to budget more dollars knowing historically at least one year that it's going to be necessary or what um in talking with concha valley community action agency there are some grants that they are looking to apply for so not only so what i can speak to are the city funds that are being spent to the program but they are using uh grants and other resources that they receive funds from that are also paying down people's water bills so that might be a discussion we need to have with them on what relief efforts they may be able to apply for or we may be able to match for but right now we're just meeting the contractual or the the fund the program design okay thank you brenda yes tommy allison just for the benefit that those folks who may be watching or listening or for those that may watch remind us what three months specifically are the months that are looked at for setting sewer rate oh you put me on the spot um is it december january february or is it i believe it's november december and january okay okay thank you

[0:12:20] all right um the other line in water reclamation includes farm lease revenue connections paving cuts auction proceeds sale of property and interest income could you make sure you're speaking into the microphone because i can't hear you all right and then of course interest income is again projected at a decrease of 140 000. moving to expenditures there again is an increase in personnel that is related to the executive director position and some overtime increases anticipated in the coming year there is a decrease in o m that is related to a refinancing of the debt payments for the 2011a and the 2017 refunding and then capital is an offset in order to maintain the um cash flowing street projects if you have any questions questions or comments keep going sorry before we move on to the uh other funds can you go back to the waterfront i am sorry let me get my microphone i am requesting um a change in the personnel and allocation that you see split in the water fund um after february's events we are trying to build a cross-control connection program and so i have put in a request for five additional personnel to administer and to implement that program like we need to to be in tceq and state compliance and so that has a personnel change of three hundred and ten thousand dollars i would propose to allocate or move money from the capital line that has a 3.8 million dollar increase and move that into personnel um and so that is a request for five additional people do it seem to me going from zero to five

[0:14:22] would be pretty aggressive and we've already trained two people right well one of those is our assistant director of water utilities and so he had the education in the background and took a class so that he could get licensed but he cannot go on a day-to-day basis to go do those inspections but he does have then i guess the background or the experience to make sure that we're administering the program properly he knows the rules and the background behind it so it's more for an educational component we do have one person currently that is able to go do inspections but due to the size of the city you start looking at asu shannon facilities um all the big commercialized industries going one person i mean we will not even put a dent in those inspections and so we have looked at other cities and compared how many personnel they have and we feel that that's in line with a program or cities our size to be able to have five people that could go and do those inspections on a routine basis and what else would they do because again i don't think i think five people's too aggressive going from zero to five i can't support that so the issue is is how do we have re-look at the requests for personnel and look at a broader responsibility for some of those folks because i can't imagine five people 20 however many hours a day seven days a week doing that project doesn't it's just not realistic i can tell you if with five people we would still stay very busy doing those inspections on it on a daily basis uh i don't know if you're are you saying additional work for those people or i'm saying going from zero to five seems way too aggressive i can understand um wanting to add some personnel five seems like a pretty strong number and i'm very concerned that we would reduce capital

[0:16:25] expenditures because we know number one there's a huge challenge as it relates to capital needs for water lines replacement of water lines etc so i have a real problem taking money out of the capital line to fund personnel i understand that um the other i guess i would like to say that we should have been adding these personnel throughout the years as the city has grown as the requirements of what we're required to look at facilities and how often we're supposed to go to them has changed so i i realize zero to five is a huge jump but if we had been adding these personnel back then i could see the the increase but the workload is such to develop or to administer a program properly to make sure that we are in compliance with state regulations it will take every bit of those five people yeah i don't support it and i don't support reducing capital by that amount of money capital is a huge big issue for us the number of times that we have to go to a water boil because of broken water lines etc i just can't reduce capital dollars we got to take care of the broken water lines and sewer lines and things that impact the entire city mayor i'm gonna go the other way i think the five are needed i think as we continue to grow as a community i i think we're gonna we're gonna have to have five and we're gonna have to have more so i do support adding the five people at this point in time since we don't we don't have any well we've got one now but i'll have to go the other way well i stay strong we need money in the capital budget and i cannot reduce capital dollars for personnel dollars well then we need to find the money somewhere else in my in my opinion allison does um tceq mandate x number of folks no they do not mandate a personnel count what they mandate

[0:18:28] is when those inspections are to be performed so we're talking about 88 facilities that need to be inspected no you're talking citywide every commercial business residential every residential home being constructed has to have a csi inspection this is citywide every commercial facility every residential facility has to have these inspections did you have a comment i had a question allison so what had we been doing all these other years um so we've been doing these inspections as a i guess with the plumbing inspectors but they have not been done to a level where we need to right now if you pull a plumbing permit the inspections are being performed but to go back and routine visit these facilities and those type of things those have not been done so all these years we've ended up with one problem this past year allison good mayor can i ask questions what i'm hearing is this will function more like the fire marshal's office functions where there's an initial construction type inspection where certain standards have to be met and then periodically certain classes of facilities will have inspections to ensure that they maintain compliance is that correct that is correct okay and your point is what because i'm just talking about historically okay so historically we've had the problem we had in february how many times it is that one event but um being the i guess in the director role providing safe water to our citizens i believe that we should take every precaution that we can to ensure or to prevent february's event from ever happening again and so we are being mandated to create a cross-connection control program

[0:20:32] as a result of february's event so tceq is looking for the implementation and the basically for the city to put put this program in place and it will take personnel to do that lucy go ahead uh allison does it have to be five could we start off with a lower number and add on as we go i would not turn down any amount of people that we could dedicate to this program but i will say that we've looked at basically how how big of an infrastructure base the city of san angelo has and we do think it would take every bit of five people to get that program administered properly harry go ahead to follow up what lucy was saying and i think allison just just answered that question but we have to make sure that we are ensuring to the citizens that this water is protected so you know if the if the number has to be five because of tceq regulations or whatever that that number is i'm going to support that i want to make sure that we don't have a reissue of the february situation we need to ensure the citizens that we're doing everything we can to protect that water system i don't disagree and i think we also need to ensure the citizens that we don't have how many more boil water notices because we have a broken water line and so here we go shutting down the entire city or half of the city or portions of the city because of broken water lines so it's not just about the safety relative to the incident that happened in the month of february that was one time in how many decades certainly very dramatic and certainly very concerning on the other hand to take money out of capital is something i can't support because i cannot support reducing capital expenditures when in fact we have

[0:22:35] so many water line breaks because we're still got cast iron lines and in the ground so it's you know and again i go from zero to five is a lot um if we want to go from zero to three and and tcq is not demanding five people they're asking us to create a program they're not demanding the city of san angelo finance five new people they're asking us to have a program maryland so if we're looking at even a smaller number i know that we have budgets uh of course we have these discussions every year you know so we look at a number and you're talking allison as far as the we should have been growing this on an annual basis or at least to get to a number that we'd be comfortable with so we're looking at a smaller number and you said a while ago you'd be willing to accept anything at this point as long as in the future we had some discussions but based on the need once we have three people or four people out there however many people city council can support and when they're out there inspecting and doing what they do we'll have a better feel for what volume they can actually handle so we start even though we start off with a smaller number as the mayor mentioned a while ago they if they do add let's say three three additional csis we can study that to see how much of an impact they'll have this year and then next year we can discuss a little bit further as far as the needs for for more csis uh if that's okay with everyone but again i do know that we do need the csis i know from the incident that we just had that if we were to have another incident i know tcq probably wouldn't take it as easy on us as they did this last time i don't think they took it so easy on us so let's be careful with the adjectives well no i i agree with that mayor but uh the but the ramifications in the future lord forbid this ever happened again then that's agreeable i don't disagree i'm just saying first time in how many decades one time one incident we've investigated all of those 83 85 88 industrial facilities and made them compliant

[0:24:39] is that right yes we're still working on the follow-up inspections of those 80 plus facilities and how do we yes tommy how do we explain to the citizens uh when we don't have enough people out there doing the inspections that we either didn't get to it or we missed one and we have another incident that may not be as severe how do we explain that well with five you still might have that incident so you can't say that by having five you prevent that but i think the key issue here is i don't think we can explain to the citizens again about water another water boil notice two or three times a year because we can't get the cast iron pipes out of the ground and tom you had your hand up allison how much for each one what's your favorite for each inspector yeah 60 by the time you figure benefits and everything by the time you're looking at benefits the average salary is 62. it's a 43 000 base salary with nineteen thousand dollars of benefits gotcha and so what we're talking about and i see the capital i see the requirements i see i know that tceq and i have talked with tceq friends that i have that work there and they're bringing in that same thing as you've got a lot of ground to cover i see that and we've had this discussion remember when we talked about seven but on that line you know how many inspections if we've got five people and they're doing you say five inspections a day no currently it takes two to three max because then you go through an entire facility the travel time to get there do the and you can't just with these inspections you have to do the full facility you cannot just look at one particular backflow prevention device and walk out the door and then you have to follow it up with the tceq required form that has to be you know sent to the customer so then there's the paperwork

[0:26:41] side of thing but or of the operation but two to three inspections max but if you're looking at a facility like shannon hospital it could take you a month or more to do that facility so how many inspections are you anticipating i mean i know this is a number we're trying to pull out of here but it is thousands tens of thousands i'm trying to work back i see the mayor's point when you suddenly throw five people out there you know we're researching every commercial business existing and under construction plus every house new construction correct how about which the plumbers stop with that one one second tom so all of a sudden we're not having the plumbing inspections for new residents continue with that responsibility so currently the plumbing inspector the plumbing inspectors will continue to do it on the new residential and new commercial facilities but when they are pulling permits for remodels or any of those they are only looking at the remodeled bathroom or mop sink whatever the case may be whereas an inspection is needed for the full facility and so that is where our inspectors would have to come back in and to go back to these facilities on an annual basis not just plumbing permit pulling necessarily continue tom sorry so do we do we charge a fee for this we have not discussed charging a fee for their inspections no okay so and i think that's something that needs to come out to help subsidize this as we look forward i mean if i'm building a house i realize there's a fee or something goes on there that that's associated with that i don't think it's fair for the population to bear the entire burden of a curriculum or a group of people coming here so yeah i think this one deserves further discussion and maybe some numbers down there what we're looking at you know i have this fear of five people running around just trying to look for something to me too heavy-handed from what you're saying that's not the case all right and so i've got a little faith in there but you know i'm i'm kind of with daniel

[0:28:43] maybe we shoot it at the three mark and say all right let's let's work on the three and then set your benchmarks in there and you tell us where we're sitting short and and have your goal is five but i i just could could we ask her to come back throughout the year if if you look if if you see if we go with what something less than five if you see that your your x number are just literally no pun intended here underwater with their inspections would you come back to us during that point in time and then tell us hey i need another inspector i need two more inspectors no i can definitely do a progress update as as we get people hired the other part of as we get people hired there is a training component so we most likely will not hire somebody who's from day one qualified to be a csi there is amount of field experience if you have a high school education then it's this much field experience plus a class plus a test if you have college credits so it gets to take off the years of field experience so there is a tiered requirement before you can even take that test to become a csi so i guess what i'm trying to get at with that is if i was authorized the three additional personnel today it could still be next year before i could probably have some sort of progress update just because of the licensing requirements and testing requirements when we hired when we went through this situation in february so we had csis from mcgowan come and work from lubbock mcgowan mcallen lubbock we had one from abilene and one from brownwood yes would you like to speak to larry um we're behind the power curve right and what i'm wondering about is if we allocate five for this now and you

[0:30:49] get past this enormous effort we have right now do you anticipate that that could be decreased you know bureaucracies we never decrease great idea but it never happens i would just say with the rate of commercial and residential housing market that we're seeing now there would be more facilities to inspect at some you know once we get past the curve of just getting the existing facilities inspected that existing facility count keeps growing so therefore no i would not see a reduction so as a property owner am i looking are you going to come into my home and expect me if you pull a permit to do some sort of modification to your home but if i don't pull anything to do anything and that nothing happens and that's one of the reasons why the routine inspections is so important is because those people that aren't pulling a permit whether it's in their home or it's in their commercial business and they created some cross connection that they didn't know at that time was an issue those routine inspections are those that would catch those type of or those type of incidences and correct those matters i just want to make sure we're real clear on this so if i don't pull a new permit for a remodel or anything else you are not coming into my house is that correct not unless there is a reason or a suspicion to see that so we've got three models we've got new construction we have the existing 88 facilities on commercial or uh the 88 are only what's in poland that is not a okay how many do we have how many will you foresee on an annual basis of commercial through through the years because if even if we're looking at an annual basis and you say shannon hospital might take a month you come in january 1 you finish up february 1 and you start that all over the next year january 1 through the years and you know

[0:32:53] it's unfortunate that we have had this incident to have this discussion but i'm in the same boat as the mayor right now five to start off just to start creeping around and trying to find issues is concerning to me we have our plumbing inspectors that deal with the permit sides of remodels construction new builds if you have if you have a uh construct a commercial building go up let's just say january 1 they finish it the next january one they're coming around and inspecting something that's still probably under a warranty probably not faulty and in my opinion could be a waste of time because it's not going to take i'm not going to put a year to it but it's going to take years for valves to start having mishaps and to say that we have to go in and inspect every year on that facility is a little bit of an overstep in my opinion we have we have two plumbing inspectors now so that'll that'll catch remodels and new builds and then on the recurring side i don't know how many weeks plumbing inspectors are only doing new construction when it comes to these inspections not the remodels that's where we need our office or our personnel to do those to do those type of things what's the difference between needing one to do a remodeling and one for a new build the as far as tceq or are you re-plumbing your house are you well because the plumbing inspector is only going to look at that spec by plumbing code they are only looking at the one aspect being for the pull of that permit and so it is the water utility side that

[0:34:58] triggers the facility-wide inspection if you go and do a bathroom remodel and you're just moving around it's the water lines that you're concerned about if you're moving around water lines in that one central location your chance of probably having something misconnected that the plumbing inspector is not going to catch is probably 0.001 i think that's true she's just pointing out that they're not gonna they're gonna look at that one component they're we don't have the staff to go inspect the whole facility but it's not gonna be deemed necessary to go all the way to the meter and check that just because they're looking at one thing so if the facility needs a complete inspection then tcq regulations state if there is modification to the plumbing system an entire inspection has to be done so i understand what you're saying that most likely they're not going to get a cross-connection made but that is the that is what the rules state to do wow well i can't support five if the council is looking at three as a beginning to see if this is an overkill i guess we can overkill but again water boils on an annual basis are out of control and so when we reduce capital expenditures there's a real issue for me on what is the bigger problem and that is old water lines that collapse and or break and or whatever they do i do want to point out that there still will be a net increase in the capital line compared to last year's budget if we were to allocate all five of the positions we would have a net increase to capital of 3.5 million i don't support five won't support five continue okay and do you all want to set

[0:37:08] a number for allison to bring back in the draft budget for adoption um i'm saying three people lane staying three lucy saying three who else has three well i'll go can you also throw a projection in there what fees they might generate i mean you might be able to do that with your three and they might subsidize two of their own all right and just i just keep you know we can't keep throwing fees out at people i mean that's what i'm saying we don't want to reduce the capital because we actually we we've raised the the price of water and that's the one thing that if we want to i mean these people are paying for water and now if we have to start taking money out of there to pay for um new employees that's too many right now i just think i guess the fee structure at least that first comes to my mind is one that you would do when you pull the plumbing permit or you pull a new construction build it would be added to those so for those services that would be what um subsidize not just to the municipal statement for water sewer bill to the everyday customer again if i'm just taking a look at the housing industry as as we speak and people right now people would love to buy a house but they're being able to afford a lot lesser of a house than they used to because the price of lumber copper everything else commodities have gone up and so then you start throwing in more fees you know every thousand dollars that you add to the cost of a house eliminates i forget how many 10 000 potential customers you can't fees add costs to a home that's what they do mayor yeah speak allison you're not proposing today to add a fee structure for this is that correct no this was i was not so the fee this discussion about fees we can jump

[0:39:11] into that but she's not proposing that today no specific fees for this process she's just trying to gain my my proposal was to do it with existing revenues and expenditures i cannot support more than three and as horrible as february was and it was it's once and how many decades and if we do thorough inspections of these facilities i can't imagine that we need to finance five right now i just can't it's not an acceptable number for me we can work with three and then progress or bring back progress reports on workload and facilities able to be visited and those type of things okay let's talk about that capital a minute go back to the water fund yes me let's talk about what's in that capital budget for 21 2022 the majority of it is going to be in our improvements um lines such as replacing water mains there is 120 i'm sorry so we also do new fire hydrants meter replacements in-house water main when we are replacing small segments we purchase pipe out of those capital accounts but

[0:41:14] the big portion of that is dedicated to those capital projects that we're keeping up with the street program and the ones that fall outside of that recently i'll approve the engineering for the 18-inch water main that is cast iron that crosses the rail railroad in two locations as well as the river and so they're almost all of that capital is dedicated to those projects so where's college hills in this college hills would be funded depending on if it bids out in whichever aspect but we have also saved up fund balance to pull out of to cash fund that entire project as well so so we earlier talked about college hills being done late fall the utility work being late fall of 2021 is that still what we're looking at yes ma'am we're planning to uh those documents are being finalized right now the uh bid documents are being finalized right now and so we plan to have that out for bid within hopefully the next 30 to 45 days uh 30-day bid process award of council and then we will have probably 30 to 45 days to get all of the paperwork you know everything signed finalized all the bonds in place and everything ready to go so we should start construction hopefully um mid to late fall early winter that is the question falls like coming up pretty good it is nice yeah time's flying so we're moving we're trying to push really quick on this but we were there they're they're just finalizing uh construction documents and and uh trying to get everything ready to be put into the bidding uh bid documents and get it out on the street so so when we talk about the uh eight million dollar uh expenditure that we talked about for

[0:43:18] um last storm water so is that part of this project on top of this project on college hills are they connected in terms of work correct they are all of this will be all the entire college sales project when we're talking about the utilities we're talking about uh not only the water but the the wastewater as well and then drainage uh from from the basically the loop up to the arroya and then all of this reconstruction of the street as well all of that what the utility relocates and everything will all be bid as one one package okay does anyone have a question for shane on college hills because i know that keeps coming up on a regular basis college hills college hills college field so now's your chance to ask some questions about college hills i think we're good okay we're all looking at no questions college hills college hills college hills i'm just ready for it okay all right we're going to switch to the solid waste fund the primary source for the solid waste fund is user fees which are structured for the permitting of the landfill and these costs are expected to be about 5.5 million dollars there's a slight increase in user fees as you can see from the 57 000 and that's based off of what our our annual trend uh we're just we keep trending up um we were kind of expecting things to kind of slow down and fall off but they just haven't so we keep uh we keep trending up on volume so we're again just anticipating and increasing volume so is this solid waste fund also a part of that concho river water project are these tied to together no ma'am the totally separate phone yes ma'am okay you'll see a slight decrease in

[0:45:22] other that is due to interest income that line also includes leases contract services and liquidated damages moving to expenditures there is a slight increase in the distribution for the executive director with very few changes other than the exception for professional services for the beginning phases of permitting the landfill site and you'll see the offsetting decrease in capital it was just moved up into a separate line item to contract that out and why is that because we don't do that we're not doing that on any of the other water funds and this is this solid way this is the solid waste run for the landfill so as we're getting ready to permit uh to to work on the the permit for the landfill to increase our capacity out there we of course have engaged a um consultant or an engineering firm to help us work through that permitting process and work through some of the some of the different things that we're looking at out there and so as we're doing that we're taking we're moving the money out of the capital account and moving it into our professional services account so we can again anticipating those costs as we move forward when i brought that to council when we awarded that to biggs and matthews engineering uh the 1.7 million cost we're going to try to we're going to try to cash flow that as best we can out of this without having to dip into fund balance of course as we get further into the process we will have to utilize our fund balance to to get through some of those bigger hurdles but currently right now we're trying to cash flow everything uh basically through uh through this fund and that's why you see the moving the movement within the fund well because it's unusual for us to see a decrease in capital expenditures and so that raises a red flag going well this is not typical of what we do in this fund yes ma'am it's an accounting function we're required to pay for that out of a professional

[0:47:24] services and account okay is there any other questions on solid waste transitioning to the storm water fund you'll see again a slight increase in user fees and then a increase in the other line which includes transfers for mowing of rideaways and interest income the mowing of right-of-ways increased 140 000 and increased decreased 15 000 dollars let me ask you a question because we see this fees line so we're not talking about just to be clear for the public we are not increasing the fee it's that there's more use and so the feed dollar goes up not because of an increase in fee and the actual cost of or the fee cost it's just the usage of the storm yes ma'am the volume is increasing uh-oh all right moving to personnel again a slight increase there for the executive director and then o m increased for mowing of right-of-ways in special projects well this executive director keeps every single fund so i don't know what they're getting yeah exactly he must be really nice i think he's blushing at this moment too do we have any other questions on the stormwater fund do i have questions from someone on stormwater with none all right that actually concludes our presentation of the public works funds and we'll transition to shane kelton okay in the next next one we're going to

[0:49:41] actually start talking about fees at the strategic planning meeting if you remember we did bring to you an item when we start looking at all of our infrastructure issues uh that we're trying to deal with from a streets perspective drainage perspective and basically all across the board uh when we're starting you know to to deal with our infrastructure and trying to figure out how we can um one increase increase our uh capacity in what we're doing and and what we're taking on and trying to move this program along and move our street reconstruction rehabilitation project along and move along faster we brought to you a couple of ideas back in the um back in the street strategic strategic planning meeting i'll get it out here in a second and when we looked at this you know some of the things that other cities are doing are creating fees the street use fees drainage fees of course we you know there's all kinds of different fees that people have created over the years but looking at this we brought this to you and kind of showed you what some of the other cities around the state kind of our size are doing as we uh kind of delve into this further we start looking into the street street fees things that we could things that we could look at as as we're contemplating uh the street use fee is for pay-as-you-go capital so one if if we do have a project that needs to be completed and we have those funds saved up we can go ahead and and pay for that as we go and then also we can use it for operation and maintenance expenses as it's related to rehabilitation efforts uh you know i've talked to the previous councils in the past as we've looked at it for you know expanding our mill and overlay program things like that to try to get um you know i think from looking at our situation looking at our straights our streets and and kind of where we are within our program you know the mill and overlay program would i think give us really a big big bang for our bucks and so as we look to that those are those are things that we we should really take a look at if we're interested in pursuing this so just to be clear

[0:51:45] a million overlay we can only use that product in that process when the streets in use at a certain usable level meaning the foundation of the street is in strong enough condition only use which words to use but so that you can do mill and overlays so for the streets which have aged longer than they should mill an overlay is not an option so it's total reconstruction or another process correct correct you know we we do have streets and unfortunately many streets throughout town that have completely the base structure has completely failed and and the mill and overlay uh would not be an option um but we we have tons of those intermediate streets the vast majority of them are intermediate streets to wear a mill an overlay project where we do go in there we we remove the existing pavement go in there proof roll do some spot repairs and then pave back the vast majority of our streets are still in condition where that will happen you know we have you know college hills we have some of those that were you know bell streets we have several of those around town that have just completely failed portions of chadburn this north chadburn project that we're going to have come up here pretty quick you know that have just completely failed those will have to be reconstructed but we have uh the vast majority of our streets can still be rehabilitated at a lower cost and a complete reconstruction the 80 million dollar uh program that we have out there which were what year we're through is year five correct we bonded through your phone so talk about the projects that are anticipated or have been a part of that 80 million dollar debt that we will have okay and and of course you know we we have the bell streets we have martin luther king boulevard we have that we've completed a small portion of southwest of course or no actually all of southwest small portion of southland and those are

[0:53:48] the ones that are active and going on of course college hill is coming up really quick north chavern you know all the way from 7th street all the way from their us 67 basically all the way up to 43rd past the coliseum um that's coming up really quick we also have on the books we have sunset we have howard we have edmund um glenna glenna edmond 29th uh all of those kind of running one street that all running together separate names but all the way up to chadron all the way back to the loop or 67 coming up we have rick's drive is a part of that we oh gosh trying to name all of them off top of my head it's hard um but we have streets basically all over town unfortunately though uh that's just my 80 million only goes so far it does it's very small it's a small number of lane miles that we're actually reconstructing and that's really my point is the 80 million dollars sounds like a lot but when you take a look at for example bell street which cost over 22 million dollars if you talk about mlk which was seven million dollars so you're talking about big chunks of dollars so the 80 million doesn't go as far as you would like it to go so once you get past those streets that are to be included in that 80 million dollar debt we have a lot of street repair work that still has to be done which we can only do currently at a pay-as-you-go situation so depending on how strong the economy is if you will the pay as you go is our only option for continuing the work beyond that 80 million correct you know i have visited with tina in in our debt capacity you know when we get to the end of our 80 million uh the capacity currently within within our structure that we have right now we're we're pretty much to the end of that for a while so it's going to be a while before we could even start bonding more projects past that

[0:55:49] you know without some significant changes in how and michael could better can't really better explain how that works but um but you know we're at the end of our capacity for a while so we do need you know an alternative funding arrangements to keep moving this along and again you know even though depending on kind of we're going to look at some numbers here in a minute and kind of get a feel from council where council may be comfortable looking at this fee and what y'all would be comfortable in generating but again you know monies are needed to keep this program moving along and keep us going otherwise we will come we're going to come to an abrupt halt at some point and uh we're just going to go back to just purely maintenance efforts at that point i think council i think everyone on council would say that the public has made it pretty strong statement about we need our streets fixed that as a priority we must take care of our streets that's we hear it we heard it a lot this past year and so for me we need to look at potential options for continuing the work on streets that need attention and aren't included in the 80 million dollar program if we're truly going to address the citizens requests for continual improvement on street work yes tommy i would assume within what you're going to talk about will then allow you folks to continue the maintenance on the work you are just completing will complete on college hills and so forth because when we get get five years out you're going to have to start doing something college hills again so well we're hoping 20 years yeah but still the maintenance cycle it always has to be there always so that is included at least in your thinking with what whatever you're going to talk about in terms of

[0:57:50] fee structure correct we're going to can again as as we look forward in this and we're creating this program or the continuation of this program maintenance is always going to be a part of this uh that's what you know i hate to be this way but that's what got us in this problem was lack of maintenance and so we don't want to get back into that same trade right so right tom you had a comment you wanted to make mayor just remind everybody i mean in march april may we all campaigned for those of those that ran on streets i mean it was the number one thing that's brought up the entire way so we're not going to leave that behind so shame pursue okay and you know and we've looked around the state and looked at um different different funding strategies or structures out there that that are out there in the uh that are out there and everybody has kind of their own twist on things and so but two two of them that really stood out one is basically a fixed rate for residential and non-residential when you look at this this is very easy to apply however it's probably not we start looking at the commercial side of things is not equitable would you hold one second shane harry wanted to make a comment a minute ago and i didn't notice him raising his hand thank you gotta wait for the light turn green i just want to make sure that if we move to this particular program and we really know that anything we can do to help take care of the streets is something that probably 90 percent of the citizens want us to do but this is not going to be a cure-all and we're not going to be able to fix every street next year the year after simply because we moved to this program is that a fair statement that's that is a fair statement again you know back when we did the fugro study back in 2015 at that time it was estimated if i wanted to fix everything overnight i needed about 500 million dollars uh you know and of course we're not going to raise 500 million dollars off

[0:59:53] and you also wouldn't find the workforce to get the 500 million dollars done either so and either way it wasn't going to work that's right either way we're not going to be able to do this overnight but again um one you know how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time so that's that's that's going to be our strategy moving forward is to just want to make sure we got it out there ahead of time even though we'll probably still get many phone calls later and said hey how come we didn't get the street fixed because of this but anyway got it out there thank you thank you harry you know and when we go from go from a fixed rate structure um looking you know more probably at an equitable especially when we start talking on the commercial side would be a fixed residential fixed rate for residential and then a variable uh rate based on uh use for you know uses for for non-residential uh as we kind of look at some of the scenarios this uh looking at just a flat rate scenario uh just kind of and these are these are approximate numbers these are these are not these are not hard numbers by any stretch of the imagination but just based on looking at our area our billing and basically some of these are these numbers are about two years old from our water billing numbers but just just pulling just meters based off of our water bills this is kind of what it would look like from a flat rate to money generation is is over here how much money it would generate this is how much for commercial this would be how much for residential from a flat rate perspective uh you know to raise 10.8 million dollars uh every household uh residential household would be charged 1460 per month and every business would be charged 169.80 per month and so you can kind of look as you go down go down the line there as to what that would look like from just a flat rate uh if we kind of move into the to the next scenario where we're using a variable tier structure based on impacts we would still

[1:01:54] look at doing a residential rate that is a fixed rate this mimics abilene abilene abilene when we look at all this abilene probably has the easiest methodology to follow uh as as compared to some of the other cities that we've looked at so we just we're mimicking this for y'all to look at and to kind of throw this out and get you all thoughts and opinions on from a residential rate we six six dollars and 75 cents per month for a single film single family home apartments per dwelling unit would be six dollars billed monthly abilene does have a low income and a senior citizens program at a reduced rate of 175 public and private schools primary schools would be five dollars per student annually and then college and universities would be five dollars per student annually as well too kind of going along that same kind of fixed unit cost there as we kind of look it we start looking at doing the variable tier structure for commercial businesses out there we we started it seems to be so complicated yes but this is actually the the this is one of the least complicated ones out there yeah and so you used and abilene has broken this down into basically six categories is how they have it broke down into uh there's other other places have have it broke down into different categories as well too um but basically what what they've done is they they'll take a business type a land use category whether that you see here assisted living automobile sales hotels restaurants banks things like that and each the institute of transportation engineers has created a

[1:03:59] trip generation manual and he basically assigns each business type a basically estimates how many times per day that cars travel to and from this business or these businesses kind of based on their type and this is a nationally published um manual that that people use across the united states so it's nothing specific to texas or our area this is this is nationwide how do you determine the difference between a high turnover restaurant and a low turnover restaurant that's again there's [Laughter] there is there's there's yeah there's a lot that actually goes into it you can actually read how how they define each one of them uh and there's how many categories uh there's a little over 400 yeah 400 400 different categories within this manual and so instead of breaking instead of and so when uh and and so abilene and like many other cities did not want to have 400 different categories of businesses so they kind of clumped them together and so but as we looked at those this is kind of what the breakdown was and the trip factor kind of based on uh the the actual clientele in the actual business that they're in and so i'm confused so this is one i thought the previous slide was the slide that abilene used now it was on the residential side this is what they use on the commercial side this is what they use on the commercial side yeah and this is again this is just a sample of how what they what abilene has broken it down into and so and just to kind of move it along a little further this is kind of how it break down we actually took some actual businesses that are here in san angelo uh and did a quick just quick calculation just on google maps just kind of looking at

[1:06:01] square footage and this set and the other and kind of just broke it down really quick just to kind of give council an idea of what this would look like based on abilene's numbers now is that for example line one fifty five dollars is that the monthly fee that would be the monthly fee associated based on the trip factor of this of these facilities and so as you go through here you can kind of look at the different at the different businesses around town and kind of get an idea of what their monthly fee would be based on this is abilene's numbers this is how abilene does it uh not necessarily how we would do it uh i mean because we have this broken down from 55 to or whatever it was 20 25 to 75 you can go to college station and if you look at their numbers well i i'm trying to give you the other side of the mayor if i could while they're digging you have you kind of opened this topic when you ask about the multiple categories but understanding and administering this from a staff perspective gets very difficult when there are a bunch of categories so i think just so you all know coming down the road at you these possibilities from an administrative perspective will be advocates for something that is simpler to administer uh and uh and bill because you're right it gets very complicated and i would assume we would do this through the utility statement that's already got multiple utilities on it with multiple rates in each utility this would be adding that complexity to that and so for us to accurately and effectively administer that that bill this is going to increase complexity and so these simpler simpler structures we would be advocates

[1:08:03] for so what you're saying is the mayor's fault for opening pandora's box yeah and while and while this does while this does look really complicated it this is these are these are not exactly this is kind of on the back side but category but as we do but you know and again when we're looking at the 25 to 75 for abilene's you know kind of a range and what they're doing you take for example college station when you look at their same same type tier structure they go from 18 20 a month to 263.80 a month and so everybody has their own everybody has their own version of how they do this and and and how where they place the burden and so so to speak and so again again we're just basing this off abilene's numbers right now because again this was in our minds the basically the the least difficult one to try to work our way through um and then just but that kind of gives you an idea of what abilene's numbers look like on our businesses here when we look when we kind of take those same numbers and we and we look at what kind of money that would generate per year based on our approximate numbers within the city itself we can look from a from the residential side of things there's going to be a fixed rate we're looking at about generating 3.25 million per year from the commercial side of things based on what we showed you will go we would be generating approximately 1.4 million dollars per year uh looking at this you know kind of that 4.64 4.7 million per year would kind of be the amount that we would generate based on abilene using abilene's numbers with the with their with their rate structures against our quantities well i know that originally abilene put in this structure and this fee approach to fixing their streets and and i think they've been in it like three years now is that right about that but they now are looking to do the same thing that

[1:10:04] we did early on and that was to obligate debt to fix their streets because even though that has been a good program for them for the maintenance aspect of abilene it has not allowed them to do what we've done and that is reconstruct water sewer utility and taking care of their worst taking care of their worst roads correct so they're approaching that so it's just kind of the reverse of what we've done but mayor we of course on our end we do a pace you go on the seal code and all the maintenance part part of it so what abilene did was to kind of kind of mimic that program but again we're doing it as pay as you go so we're barely looking at at this scenario to really do all everything else though so again uh as others are trying to catch up we're not trying to emulate and do what abilene's doing actually what they did right here was to cover or get to the level that we were just on the street maintenance and pay as you go well yes because we are spending three to four million dollars a year on maintenance work and depending on the budget scenario whether we get three million or four million a year so this would under the same scenario that we currently use that would be saying if we implemented it if if we chose to do this we would continue to have the three to four million dollars existing in the budget for that maintenance plus additional revenue here is that correct correct so we would be able to double the amount of work if you will on our streets if we applied and chose to do this we yes you know keeping keeping the keeping the existing dollars that we have now for our maintenance program our chip seal program and the ha-5 that uh that's coming on and we're able to use uh on some of the streets not all of our streets but as we and we look at these maintenance functions to keep the keep that three to four million dollars that we've been spending maintaining those type functions of course the cost of that is rising with everything else as well too but

[1:12:08] this would allow us to go beyond that and actually not only do just the maintenance portion of it but also start really working on the rehabilitation portions of it which i talked about earlier earlier with the mill and overlay program those type things i think everybody has seen what with the emergency funding that you all provided earlier for the road repairs coming out of the winter storm uh the work that we've done on jackson street and some of those other streets that people have seen in uh howard street i know um councilman carter over there had visited with me the other day about how nice that was and that program and how we could expand that program and so those are the type of things that were uh really think that we're gonna be able to this type of program would allow us to be able to do a lot more of that uh into moving into the future and those type functions as well well i noticed where we've done the road road repair from that storm you know on these big four foot by three foot section things that you've done the work and the quality has been phenomenal every one of those that i've gone by and seen i've been very impressed with the quality of work and without a doubt know that that work is going to be there for a while it's not something that was like a quick patch and then when the next rainstorm comes it's going to create another point it was it was it was it was those those areas were were milled out and actually you know inlaid with with a hot mix you know with a hot mix machine so yes that probably it's not like the cold lake product where we just throw and go trying to fill a pothole and get on down the road to the next pothole yeah these were actually cut and repaired correctly great tommy i think you look like you have a question um shane if we if we backed into this how much money do you need now that's a stupid question i got that everybody's sitting there looking at me saying that's the stupidest question okay i'll go ahead and give everybody that it's a stupid but how much money do you need if we're going to back into this do you need 4.7 do you need

[1:14:11] 8.2 do you need 1.3 how much do you need as we're as we're looking at moving moving through this program and it depends on it depends on which way we approach this [Music] if we approach it from a strictly just a contracting standpoint you know if you go back to our food growth study and the list of streets that are on our food grow study if we had about 9.2 to 10 million a year that would let us work through the prioritized streets on the fuco study obviously that's just a select 25 areas but that's the quantifiable numbers that we had back in 2015 obviously we've had escalation and inflation on those numbers but around that 9.2 to 10 million annually would would get us going moving in the right direction very quickly on some of those so but read into what you just said what we're discussing here would be a pay-as-you-go situation much like we have now with the three four million that that's just what you are able to do each year in different districts so this would be very similar just pay as you go it's it's it's a pay-as-you-go and basically it's taking that rehabilitation approach to it and you know from that aspect of it now you know again when we start looking at you know contracted costs versus in-house maybe an in-house crew cost and and you know we've run some of those numbers as well too and then we will we believe if we could build up to that point that doing it in-house we could definitely save quite a bit quite a few dollars doing that by doing it in-house again but again that's that's a planned approach over time not not we implemented we not we implement we're we're working tomorrow it's it's not that fast and so

[1:16:13] as we move along so i think there's i think there's definitely i think that we need a we need a plan in place to to build up into where we want to go where our end goal is and build it build up into it i think we have to be very uh aware that again we're talking about a fee and i'm concerned that we have to find a good balance between what we're asking the res the citizens of san angelo to take out of their pocket to put towards this versus what they can afford what they can afford versus what the dollar amount is that we need we've got to find that balance between it because as you know many people complain regularly about property tax dollars and even though we've maintained the same rate of property tax dollars for 10 plus years the appraisal district continues to increase valuations which means more money's coming out of the citizens pocket when they pay the property taxes etc so for me it's about finding the balance between the want the need and what's affordable without putting citizens in a very tight financial position because if your family income is not expected to grow then your ability to continually take more out to pay for things like this is impacted so i think we have to be reasonable in terms of the approach and as much as i'd like to say what do we need and how do we go get it based off of a program it's unrealistic in terms of what we're asking our citizens to do unless we're willing to address the issue of property tax rate and reducing the property tax rate a small amount to allow for a fee structure to help pay for the street so i think we have to be

[1:18:14] looking at the big picture in terms of what might be reasonable yep and mayor with that said if if council is interested in pursuing this and moving forward might i suggest is we look at fee structures as a whole from the public works department uh you know earlier we were talking about water rates and sewer rates uh and you know when we and we addressed you know we were talking about storm water the storm water fee a while ago as well when we start looking at uh all of the fees that could be associated within the public works area and we you know we start talking about drainage and trying to find money to deal with drainage and those type things um you know what what i would propose would be to to let us let us bring on a consultant that could work with us not only one to establish the street use fee and how it would be how we would iron that out within us and again too with y'all's feedback kind of seeing how y'all how you all want this distributed amongst whether that's residential versus commercial and all of those type things to see where that uh how y'all want that burden to lie and to where within that but also let's take a let's step back and take a bigger look at all of this because you know i know that one our stormwater fee has not been increased you know that we that we established back in 2010 has not seen a single increase in 11 years and is and of course inflation has has beat us up in within that fund as well too but as we move forward you know we're looking at two years we're having to renew our permit in two years we were lucky in our last cycle that uh you know the census hadn't come out yet we haven't topped that 100 000 mark i feel pretty certain as we're moving into this 2020 census that we're going to top that 100 000 mark in our in our tier structure within the government is going to change how they look at us in addressing our storm water issues in our in our ms4 permit area and and dealing with those clean water issues and i think too we're we're going to we're going to have to see an increase in that side as well too within the next couple of years uh we know water rates and sewer rates aren't going to be able to stay stay where they are forever either and so

[1:20:17] maybe let's let's take a more comprehensive look at all of this uh have a consultant come on and take let's take a comprehensive look at all of the fees within the public works area and create a strategic plan that over time implements these fees over time um you know when we and and kind of even out that curve instead of taking these big huge leaps you know in from time to time to time let's let's let's try to even this curve out just a little bit take a very strategic um approach you know taking steps at a time instead of leaps at a time when we either implement fees looking at implementing fees and or raising fees to to accommodate things that we know are coming up in the future that these needs are going to be coming up in the future let's take a more strategic and applied approach to looking at these and looking at these fees moving forward i don't i don't know if that is something that would suit council or not but again that that would be my suggestion to maybe take a big picture look at all of them and figure out how we can move this along in in in small small bites not big bites my perspective is the falling is is that the citizens have said very aggressively get the streets fixed that's what they've said get the streets fixed those other issues probably exist and they not to diminish that conversation but people haven't said to us please increase my storm water fee they haven't said that and they hate that storm water and they're not going to they're not going to they hate that storm water fee more than they hate anything else and they they hate that fee so i'm not interested today in talking about hiring a consultant to look at all those issues and waiting for them to come up with some game plan in totality what i am looking for is a way to address the street issues and we need to take that as a single subject and talk about it figure out how we do it

[1:22:19] in a bigger way than what we're currently doing it those other issues perhaps next year we can do that whatever but we can't keep expecting we can't keep adding on to the customer's debt to the city if you will in terms of the number of fees that we keep asking them to pay i mean we we've got to be sensitive to people who are retired you know we we very often talk about fixed income on retirees but if you're getting paid thirty thousand dollars a year that's a fixed income whether you're retired or not that's fixed and so if we keep adding expenses to that the average family has to make cuts somewhere in their life just as the city has to make cuts in terms of what we can afford and not afford so i really feel that we need to look at the street situation as a top priority right now and those other issues can be dealt with down the road but right now i just think we need to figure out how to figure out to get some funds to to be more aggressive about street repairs tom shane i've got a question here so we can you go back to the businesses that you listed that one sheet and you had all of them stayed on it so so how about somebody that has a lot of frequency but not walk in say sudden link all right if you took all the people that use sudden link all right where would they fall on this list it would be based on basically their square should be the maximum yeah i mean it's going to be based on their square footage and based on but within the within the trip generation guide that that is established there is a there is a service frequency for that type of establishment and we would base that when we would base that frequency based on i guess the the square footage of their business based on that frequency would come up with and it would follow the square footage then it will yes and

[1:24:23] the trip generation code there's there is a code listed for that type of establishment or business okay so what tom what abilene did is they took a manual of over 400 different business types of business units and they pared that down to the most frequent businesses found in abilene so they have 62 trip generation codes that then they assigned all the businesses in abilene underneath one of those categories of the 62 which generated it so it would be looking through that list finding out what businesses are most popular in san angelo what would be most applicable and then assigning that particular code or that particular classification to that business for the billings billing structure obviously that's labor intensive and that's taking a specific look at every business in san angelo so there's a lot of work that's involved with that much less than some of those cities that we looked at as far as how they're calculated but short of the flat rate structure which is by far the most the simplest to implement this is the most equitable and the most simplistic that works within our current billing structure our billing billing uh what we have available to us in our in our utility bill to make that happen now again it's taking a comprehensive look at all of those codes and finding out which codes are most applicable for us i think what you've got you probably got the fairest most equivalent program across right here what i was worried it's about there are businesses that are high frequency but they don't actually have a drip or the square footage all right and if i was going to draw a dot on anybody i have no problem drawing a dot on suddenly all right and don't mean that bad but i'm saying to have the market share that they have here in the small square footage they could carry their fair share so i'm good and that's 100 the type of direction that we would need you know when we bring this back for an overall approval and overall look that we would need from council and management

[1:26:26] do you guys have do you guys do you have further questions or comments or shane or any further questions keep going then okay i and i guess really just i'm looking for direction at this point from council uh is this is is this are y'all are y'all comfortable with this type of scenario for us to start approaching this type of scenario and again i would and i would ask even if we're not going to do a comprehensive look at the entire city though i still believe that we need a consultant on board to help us work through all of this we just flat do not have the staff to take care of i mean to to look at all of the different businesses in town and count the number of gosh because when you start getting into it you start looking at all of the different strap stores how many fueling stations or how many fueling you know how many fueling stations do they have how many i mean all of that all of that plays into the trip generation factor uh and how you calculate all this stuff and it is just too overwhelming for for our local staff to be able to handle i think the question to that is shane time frame because we're talking about the 21 2022 budget this is august basically we're looking to try to come up with a plan and when you start saying okay we need to hire a consultant by the time we go through the process of doing an rfp hiring somebody letting them do the work you're probably looking at 2022 2023 in terms of implementation i believe we could bring something back quite a bit quicker than that and we will have to look we have we have some existing contracts with engineering firms that do a lot of this type of work already um and we may be able to tie that in with a with an existing contract that we already have to be able to bring somebody on board to help us with this we still need to work through the purchasing side of that to make sure that our idiq actually when we sent that out covers this but we believe that we can we believe we can get on this fairly quick if this is something council is

[1:28:29] really interested in we believe we can get on this really quick and if this is the type of if if y'all are basically good with this gen these general parameters that we've brought to you today to to to kind of mimic or basically work work with uh then i think we can i think we can push this through fairly quick mayor what i think we want to do is use someone who's been who's had a program that's been successful from what i in talking to the mayor of abilene he feels very strongly that this program has been successful in terms of support by the citizens and the ability to execute it correctly what i want the citizens to know is that we're looking at an opportunity a strategy to move up quicker faster our ability to address the street issues and as much as none of us want to talk about new fees we also know that many people don't like it when the city continues to borrow money and you can only borrow x amount of money based off of your financial situation so we do have to find a way to address the citizens needs issues and it's called streets so i think from what i'm hearing from seeing from all of our city council members is that they'd like you to move forward on this come back to us for exa for a more finalized plan that we could adopt and implement in a 2021-2022 budget cycle and i and i guess as we're going along are these the type of are these the type of associated fee is this fee structure associated are y'all comfortable with this type of fee structure uh i mean as far as from from i guess from the overall looking at

[1:30:30] [Music] the monthly costs associated with uh with our commercial businesses and the monthly costs associated with our um well i think that when i look at it i think the most realistic number for us to talk about is coming up with a fee structure that would produce 5 million around the 5 million dollar mark i think anything larger than that isn't is not reasonable and would even though citizens want us to get the street work done i think anything more than that is going to be race i think it's going to be very concerning to people tom one final one here so i was just chatting here with hebert would this be anybody with a water bill i mean would this could this expand out to the etj i mean how do you where do you stop this we we can't expand it and i don't believe we can spend it in the etj you know because this would be an ordinance and i don't think that there's any way that this would expand out past the uh our actual city limits and so it won't be with that attitude come on now it's it's not it's not me there's a there's a lady on the other side of the table over there shaking their heads well i mean so i can't tell you how many people call me and and complain about the streets and they don't live in the city limits i went well just move in the city limits and give me an extra 3 500 to go down there but if not that understand that people inside the city limits are bearing a hundred percent of the burden that part of sales tax we get that little percentage there is nothing huge so it was looking at a way to try to make this to take you from four six to six three all right and if it's going on a water bill and it's going out there to me there's way but the eternity but if but if you're in the etj and you have financial water then if this is based off of a water meter and you how is it that if you buy water from san angelo that you couldn't use that i mean

[1:32:33] describe the legal issue there that would prohibit it the legal issue is the jurisdiction the city has and we don't have jurisdiction to require anybody to do anything by ordinance outside of the city limits versus the utility which is essentially sailing selling a commodity to people so we're selling them something they're paying us for what they use rather than saying here's our code ordinances you have to obey these we just don't have the jurisdiction but why does this have to be an ordinance um that's the only way that we can impose fees is through an ordinance there's i mean we can't force people in the etj to do anything any other way than through some statute we could get a statute passed at the state level perhaps so if i live in the city and i buy water from the city i buy water from the city by nature of an ordinance the fee is set by nature of an ordinance you buy water from the city by a contract you sign when you go to the water department and say i want to be a water customer so it's no different than anything that is bought and sold and that water bill is actually just the mechanism by which we collect payment it's not that we're selling something when we're selling this fee tommy it seems to me that unless no one unless an individual has no means of transportation and that would be city transportation uh not city anymore but uh concho valley transit if they are using our streets in whatever vehicle they use then that puts wear and tear on our streets they may not own a car but in fact they are using our streets so you asked a question a minute ago which i for my one part i would like to see this as fair and equitable as possible but those that use our streets more and i'm not

[1:34:36] picking on those that ride transit no but if it's sudden link if it's whoever it might be but if they generate traffic on our streets that puts wear and tear on our streets it's a user fee so that's that's in my way of thinking that is the approach i would like to see to the extent you all can do that and i agree with the mayor 5 million if you can generate that let's see you know what good you guys can do with that um get to that number however that is best and most equitably distributed that's just my one piece of input do i have input from anybody else at this point of harry tom just tommy just to follow up on that i don't want to make this program so difficult to manage from the staff's perspective that it takes more of the staff time to do that than than they should be doing something else so i like the way this is set up and quite honestly there are people i know in a city that probably do not use the city streets but let's keep it simple let's figure out a way to do it and i like this approach we mayor could i ask one of the things that the council has made clear is to expedite move this along don't sit on it [Music] i really haven't figured out exactly the question i need to ask but as kimberly and the budget folks work through finalizing that budget i it sounds to me like we're going to be collecting and expending in the next fiscal year would you be ready to include some revenue amount in the budget or would

[1:36:40] you rather when the final billing structure is put together bring back a budget amendment ordinance at that time i think we need a time frame on this i you know you can let things go for months on end you got to have a deadline and the deadline is we need this in the 2022-2021 21-22 budget so worst case worst case scenario it should be in the second half of the budget year but best case scenario would be in the second quarter worst case scenario in second quarter of the budget year worst case thank you because the streets age every day yes ma'am i am aware of that we will bring this back as soon as we can get it done keep it simple we will do it thank you okay with that that concludes shane's proposals and information for us today so we'll move on to three three or three a3 which is other items needing council direction is there anything at this point relative to the budget process with none we will ask for an adjournment and a second by lucy all in favor say aye this budget meeting is adjourned

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=d_Mh0fXOEn8