City Council 6-6-23

[0:00:00] it is officially called to order we will start with our chaplain prayer and pledges and today we have police chaplain art mavrotti here to lead us in both I think thank you our city manager our city staff and our city council members I give thanks for the wave of service that they have chosen magnesium allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all honor the Texas flag I pledge allegiance to the Texas one State under God one and indivisible we have one Proclamation this morning and the first one is our Texas women Veterans Day so those in the audience to help us celebrate please come forward good morning good morning good morning

[0:02:14] June 12 2023 commemorates the 75th anniversary of the women's armed services integration act which was signed into law by President Harry S Truman in 1948. women have violently served in defense of our nation since its earliest days during the American Revolution however it wasn't until June 12 1948 that women were able to serve as regular members of the U.S armed forces when the women's armed services integration Act was signed into law over two hundred thousand women served in U.S auxiliary services in World War II which led the way for full integration into the military after the war in the decades since the integration act women have served in ever expanding combat and Leadership roles often overcoming ongoing gender discrimination to prove themselves as capable and talented soldiers Sailors Airmen and Marines in the 1970s women were further integrated into the U.S armed forces finally allowed to serve in non-combat commanding roles and attend the military academies in 2016 the ban on women in combat was lifted allowing them to officially serve on the front lines although they had been there for over 200 years women have performed Above and Beyond in situations where their actions saved lives changed the outcome of a war or alter the course of history some have endured great hardships as prisoners of War while many others sacrificed their lives Texas has the largest population of women veterans in the United States at 190 366 who bravely sacrificed and put their lives on the line to defend our country San Angelo is home to almost 5 000 Veterans of which 10 percent are women every day we recognize appreciate and honor the service of all women veterans who have shown courage commitment and skill while serving and defending the

[0:04:18] United States and its people now therefore I Brenda Gunter mayor of the city of San Angelo Texas here do Proclaim June 12 2023 as Texas women Veterans Day in San Angelo Texas further be it known that citizens of San Angelo remember and honor those women who bravely volunteered to serve and those who went who women want whom one day will serve so San Angelo is home to over almost 500 women veterans and we are just a small portion of the women that you come across every day and don't realize that we all have a part in the military so we appreciate you coming out and helping us recognize women Veterans Day thank you [Applause] we will now open the meeting up for

[0:06:30] public comment issues or concerns not on the regular agenda may be raised by the public at this time citizens should speak from the podium address all comments to the dios Begin by stating their name and address or single member district number and limit their remarks to less than three minutes do we have people in the audience who'd like to speak today good morning Charlotte Anderson keeps an Angelo beautiful I'm here today with Mr Cash Coy he's from Miss fluid's third grade class and he's also a member of the Cub Scouts pac-22 and we're going to talk to you a little bit this morning about the results of our hazardous waste event so cash was at that event and he's going to tell us about his experience as well we do a survey at that event and our survey this year was pretty much in tune with what it's been in the past but our number one topic of environmental priorities from about 68 percent of the people that attended our event picked recycling is number one hazardous waste removal as number two trash pickup is number three children's education coming in at four planting trees five and beautification number six so I'm really proud to get that survey that helps us plan our activities and events for the coming year we did serve in is 225 vehicles with 28 different organizations 59 volunteers with over 287 hours which was over nine thousand dollar value to the city 10 491 pounds of hazardous waste 3 100 bags were collected by Ella who saves the oceans two thousand pounds of shredded documents 150 pounds of cardboard over three thousand pounds of oil and 2500 pounds of electronics were all recycled none of these items went to

[0:08:34] the landfill so we're very proud of that and some of our service providers actually provided their services for free so cash come over here I want you to tell them what you did at the Hazardous Waste event this year was my first year participating in the Hazardous Waste event my family and I were the second people that caused drove by I was in charge of passing out the handout these these trash bags and these really cool pens the handout had the survey on it and it also had directions on which stations were on the route the trash bags are super good for cars it keeps trash from growing out the window or dirtying up your car depends voltage is cool cash thank you very much for all that you did I appreciate it so cash has been working with us since he was in second grade and that was last year he was one of the persons that are don't mess with tax Texas trash off he was also working on his world conservation award through Cub Scouts which he earned and we were very proud to present them for their accomplishments so this year cash was in third grade and his he asked his teacher Miss fluent to reach out to us to help them with their tries research projects so we had a wonderful presentation for the third grade at Fort Concho and they all became Junior ksab ambassadors and I think you remember they were here for the Earth Day Proclamation but something that was really special that they made for me I just got this at the end of the year was this beautiful book and it says ABC 26 ways to keep San Angelo Beautiful by

[0:10:41] Miss fluid's third grade class so it it's just spectacular what these students did was they they made a poetry and it's a specialized aabbcc poem similar to Shakespeare's Sonics and we're really really proud of their work and then the book is beautifully Illustrated when with watercolor pictures for every Alphabet letter so I'm going to read one and then I'll let cash read his pages and um so this this here's the picture just we're probably running short on time so why don't we have cash okay all right cash pull the microphone down don't mess with San Angelo because San Angelo has laws that Earth Day is every day don't drop trash because of flaws so don't you dare drop that trash it will cost the mail a lot of Cash in a Flash pickup crash and let's pick up trash and no slipping and falling with a crash so that was one student and then we'll let there you go unusually Beautiful by cash coy it's an Angelo is unusually beautiful happiness is usually plentiful it is weird that it's so nice it is like the home of Christ that's why you should keep it clean you're able to do it in a blues well done yeah thank you very much we sure appreciate the opportunity to bring um bring these activities and engagement to our classrooms providing purposeful teamwork and Community advocacy and to take away Treasures like this we are

[0:12:45] going to have this book published with the pictures and the children's work Ash would you make sure everyone in your class appreciates all the work and effort that went into making that book would you thank them for us okay thank you thank you Charlotte mayor I'd like to recognize that cash Coy is a cool name [Laughter] any further public comment good morning hockey templin single member district six last month at City Council planning permits brought some fees forward to y'all and then some of them were postponed till later we didn't get no public comment last month on some of those fees and um the developmental task force seems to be working good to some extent on April 19th we had one about these fees but we did not receive all the documentation until about five o'clock the day before so we hadn't had time to review any of those before that meeting since then they came to council some of them were passed last months I think some of them are coming back up in two weeks we had a meeting on May 31st and gave them a little bit more input they did not have any more input for us they were asking for more input from us and they didn't give us any a lot of those fees some of them it's a lot of just like the codes it's a lot to go through some of them don't make sense some of them need to go up they all need to go up on how they need to go up covid was of course unique situation in 18 y'all had passed some where you were going to go up in 1920 21 22 and of course a lot of those got skipped because of covet and so a lot of those needed to still go forward and they

[0:14:47] still do but in some cases they're jumping hundreds of percent um some of the fees are several hundred percent some of them are even more than that on some of them the mileage seems to be off uh one permit um one inspection maybe 10 miles is fine two 20 miles is fine but then you have four which is 130 miles just some of the fees don't make sense that including in their cost analysis we were just like staff to get with us a little bit before or get the information out as soon as they can to the developmental task force meeting or the HBA so that we can see it in advance have time to go over it with the staff and so that we're not coming to council presenting our case for or against when it could be come to a compromise before um on some of the does there need to be another development task force meeting called pretty soon so that you in fact have an opportunity to go back in having the information in hand have another meeting to discuss it so you feel like everyone's reviewed it if it's going to come to Council on the 20th I mean we'd like to see it before the Monday the day before um uh I just think they need to try to revamp it and so um thank you thank you because I couldn't see the timer on the last public comment so thank you further public comment good morning Council Anna bartage 2236 River Valley Lane single member district one

[0:16:49] my question is who was the appraiser for our County because obviously it sounds like this person was from California because they have absolutely no idea what our land values are worth so the appraisal I live in the city limits and the I'm paying taxes the road in front of our house I've lived there for 15 years nothing has ever been done to that road and talking to neighbors have lived there much longer have not seen anything done to that road also so that's one concern we are paying taxes we have no sewer either so we have our own septic uh anyway there's that and then my concern is pricing people out of their homes thank you good morning Council staff my name is Tony Jones developer single member district 4. um I'll not be here in two weeks I'm sure much to the chair of some people that will be here I would just encourage Council to uh in looking at the fees going forward that you adopt a a yearly tier that will incrementally erase the fees you were provided with a thorough analysis from Mr templin two weeks ago and that analysis revealed that there is a certain amount of smoke and mirrors that go on when they when staff brings you information I've watched this go on for 20 or 25 years it's not just the staff apparently in order to get things done and get them done in a timely manner they're rushed and a lot of times they can't provide us the information beforehand but you must have what I feel like is an unbiased look at

[0:18:55] those from a businessman's standpoint and know that some of those numbers are skewed so I would just encourage staff to or Council to look at a tiered uh incremental raise in those fees and so we appreciate staff doing for them doing for us what they do however comma we were at the last development meeting hoping to see numbers new numbers that from what you all looked at two weeks ago and they had nothing in terms of the fees that were going to go up on us they had some incremental fees that were going to go up on non-related issues but they had nothing to provide us and so now we're faced with another council meeting where you're going to be asked to make those decisions and we'll not have time to analyze though thank you very much we have to have those on the next council meeting or can they be moved to July 6th we can we can move it again on our part we definitely want to make sure our staff is working closely with the community but um we can we can't move that we'd prefer to have it at the next meeting but we can all right so we'll we'll make a we'll move it to July 6th so it gives everybody more time to review all the information from both ends of the Spectrum more public comment now's your chance with that we will conclude the public comment section of the agenda and we will move on to the consent agenda I'm going to start with Lucy and ask if there's anything from the consent agenda she'd like to have pulled yummy Larry ma'am Tommy no ma'am Tom no ma'am Harry Adam D item d [Music] oh Karen did you want an item pulled from the consent agenda no

[0:20:59] no ma'am thank you all right with that may I have a motion to approve the consent agenda with the exception of item d ude I'll move by Tommy second advice someone Tom any public comment concerning the consent agenda with exception of item d seeing none will take a vote those in favor of approving the consent agenda please say aye aye okay thanks Karen motion approved so the consent agenda is uh is approved seven to zero with exception of D item D consider approving change order number one to es-06-19 EHT between mprotec hibs and Todd Incorporated in the city of San Angelo for water utilities department assistance up to the amount of 130 000. Shane you're on Lucy you have a question it's not questioned it's more of a comment I guess I didn't realize that we'd lost another senior staff person I'm gonna have to piggyback on what Tommy said last budget meeting and that is we've got to find a way that we can retain these people and find a pay scale that that allows us to hire the right people and retain the right people so from my my perspective uh I'm a little disappointed that we've got positions out there do you like something to comment on item D because that's not item d it has to do with item D it has to do that we've lost the position that's why we're hiring this particular company so my comment is is is that and I'll move to approve the item is there a second wait a minute Lucy mayor I want to change tell us what item D is about please yes we're going to use um Professional Services from EHT to

[0:23:04] help assist in in some of the daily reporting and things like that that we have to do for the water utility a lot of the regulatory issues and items that that come up on a on a weekly basis that we have to deal with these folks are going to come in and help help me work through all that make sure all the numbers are calculated correctly and because we do go through a whole lot of numbers on a weekly basis when we're talking about reporting our water usage and all of those type things so these folks are going to come in and help help make sure that we keep everything straight and in line and give me another set of eyes to help go through all of that further questions for Shane may I have a motion for approval a move by Larry may you have a second second by Tom all those any public comment all those in favor of approving item D on the consent agenda please say aye aye motion all right okay motion is approved item D of seven to zero that concludes the consent agenda portion of the agenda we will move into our regular agenda comments regarding items on the regular agenda may be made by the public when each item is discussed as outlined above applicants proponents and appellants are exempt from the time limit above and instead must limit their remarks to less than five minutes item a is considered ratifying Cosa DC authorization for the board president to negotiate and execute Amendment one to the 2023 Cosa DC Chamber of Commerce Professional Services performance agreement with ratification by city council Michael you're on good morning mayor and Council Michael Dane interim economics development director bring before you uh uh an amendment to the existing ratification of a con contract Amendment between kosa DC and the Chamber of Commerce comes

[0:25:09] before you consistent with Direction I received subsequent to last meeting we have simplified and clarified the scope the direction I received afterward or the suggestion I received afterward was to extend the contract in a two plus one fashion remember we talked about it came to you the last time with a three plus one plus one Council was uncomfortable with that there were really two viewpoints a one plus one and a three uh subsequent to that it was suggested to me that we discuss a two plus one that's what we took to Cosa DC they took your advice or your request seriously and uh approved that in since that they send that to you now in this item so this would extend the current agreement by two years with an optional one-year extension and of course the ratification of this would also bring the new scope into play so exactly as I think you directed last time are there questions for Michael Dain may I have a motion for approval move so I'll move by Harry second by Larry seconded by Larry any public comment saying none will take a vote all those in favor say aye thank you thank you that motion passes seven zero thank you Item B consider ratifying the Cosa DC resolution authorizing the board president to negotiate and execute an economic development incentive agreement with technology Tower LLC in an amount not to exceed 250 thousand dollars a project authorized under sections 501 and 505 of the Texas Development Corporation act necessary to promote Economic Development and expand business enterprises which create or retain primary jobs recommending approval by city council and re recommending city council

[0:27:13] consider extending property tax abatements relative to the project morning mayor council Michael Danny and Romney development director this incentive has to do with the scitel tower kind of a local landmark we have two local technology firms which have created an LLC to purchase maintain improve maintain and operate this Tower they will be moving their employees into the facility and they plan to hire up to 20 additional employees our calculated estimated economic impact over 10 years and it is in excess of 15 59 million a proposal includes two hundred thousand dollar capital investment incentive uh having to do with capital investment as they acquire and improve the facility fifty thousand dollar job creation incentives to be tied to job creation and our recommendation is that you would consider a tax abatement which would be a four-year structure 175 50 25. the the estimated tax abatement amount would be 65 000 and that would be on the increased value only in other words they're not getting a break on value which already exists just on new value that they create is that value based off of the 2023 tax appraisal number or the 2022 tax appraisal number or the purchase price these would be based on the estimated value of improvements so the existing value would not come into play the purchase price is not inclusive in this request yes ma'am exactly it would only be when they go in and improve the

[0:29:15] facility and it increases value or they add equipment which increases the value that's what the abatement how do we determine the increase in value because the appraisal district in fact very seldom walks inside a building or knows what improvements have been made So based off of that how do we know what the improvements are and what will be the documents that are used to determine quote those improvements well our estimates are based on their they have to estimate those amounts for their financing and so they estimate some improvements to buildings and some equipment and um because they're going to have to pay it it's based on their costs and they're going to have to pay for that and so that's what these calculations are based on but ultimately we would Abate on amounts above a certain floor amount which would be the existing values the value of the improvements there will they would also remit uh estimated value for personal property that they install in the building also so those those marginal amounts are what we're considering evading and so the total tax abatement is for the combined four years yes ma'am not a singular Year yes ma'am that's correct 100 the first year 75 the second 50 the third and 25 the fourth and then of course the full full amount would be taxable the last line I think I asked the question before we got to that line return on investment 6.9 years including all proposed incentives that's the expected payback period associated with the proposal as it exists in other words this is the break-even time is 6.9 years can you give insight into what the building will be used for and an

[0:31:19] overview of what one could expect to have happen um with these incentives and the proposed use of the building LC created by the two companies vgi and Snyder expect to move into the building but not occupy it entirely I anticipate that that would mean that they would be open to leasing that space in that facility to other organizations and I don't have the detail about the improvements that they would make to the building I've heard talk about a parking lot Improvement but I don't know that for sure and I think that those final plans rest in their discussions about financing so when you take a look at these four-year tax abatement is that inclusive of improvements that would be made in the floors and the areas that they will not occupy but will be occupied by others or is that inclusive of improvements on all floors Etc that's a good question you have me stumped I would assume that we could not Abate that which we do not know and so we would limit that abatement to the construction and Improvement time frame if that's important today I that's a great you have to be completely stumped on that one and so I I think we would have to specify that the abatements would be limited to uh or inclusive of all floors or limited if you want to open floors that they occupy if you want to open it up to uh like Mike's Computer Service that I might become a tenant in there and move equipment in and have to remit uh that information to the appraisal district and Abate that potential tax Source we

[0:33:26] can discuss that I'm not sure that that's specific enough to create a contract on and so well just it's a little confusing because if they're not going to occupy the entire building and we're doing tax abatement we for only the improvements they make they make I'm going to open up for further questions from Council sliders at the end of it let's go back go back two slides so this just flipped I mean it was just sold at auction what a couple months ago well so did auction no it was sold at auction and was bought by Bill Elliott about two years ago he's now sold it to these folks so Snyder and vgr are behind the building these the people we're talking about are buying the building yes sir they did form a separate LLC and that LLC is going to own the building so no I had a lot of the same questions Brenda did I mean you know we're going to Abate and give them a tax abatement then they still have the opportunity to revenue I don't know three four five more floors out of this thing I just want to be fair on this as we go forward and we need to have our expectations laid out and very clear you know what we will obey and what we want and if they get future tenants up there it it doesn't really apply to those tenants we we love to see and I have used Snyder and vgi personally I'm fond of both of them great but we need to keep this very well defined as we move forward what we're going to bait and what we're not well the next question is have they completed the purchase of this building because that would be the other question asked is if they have not completed the purchase of this building are we allowed to give incentives and sign up for incentives if they don't physically own the building yet well the key here is uh no they have not closed they're still working that out this is a recommendation to consider the abatement this is not an approval of an abatement strategy today

[0:35:28] but as they go to complete their financing strategy knowing whether or not uh tax abatement on the those improvements will make a difference in what they discuss with their Bank just asking about the legal aspect of approving incentives for a project of which the building's not physically owned by the persons that we are asked to approve these incentives Theresa we would allow all of the conditions to be met before we execute an agreement we wouldn't just sign an agreement today so until all of the steps are taken including there's an abatement process that we would have to go through if that's part of the deal so it's nothing is like imminent like going to happen today they're just getting your direction to make sure we're on the right Road and that they can continue driving down that road this is just as I understand just a part of their planning process excuse me planning process for their financing for the building and part of their bigger business plan um so they're they're seeking our assistance in expanding their their business mayor I'd move approval as presented yes no Lucy um excuse me on the incentives about the job Creations the 20 full-time employees are we talking about in so many years or what's the time frame for hiring those people um three years they must hire and retain but at some point I'm not sure if it's three or five if they have not hired those they become ineligible to uh receive that incentive my other question is is on the 59 people that are currently employed are those people from San Angelo are they from another city that are coming in do they

[0:37:32] know they're owned by the vgi and the I don't know where their employees live but they're currently employed by these two companies is the point they're just bringing them in underneath one rooftop and what my question really was if they were coming in were they going to be living here were they going to be working from home I just I don't think they would be buying the building if they were going to work at home because they're buying Office Space real estate that's my guess uh one other point the uh job creation incentives we pay in arrears you don't get the incentive until hired the people thank you very much Larry I wondered if you have any additional Milestones on the capital investment incentive we have discussed the possibility that they would be able to request the capital investment incentive as they made the investments in other words on a quarterly basis they could request reimbursement by documenting what expenditures they had created completed whether or not they take advantage of that I I can't say but we talked to them about that option and I'm sure we will make that part of that final agreement unless somebody has heartburn well I'm sure that the of course I'm not sure of anything because it's not my building or my businesses but my assumption is making the investment again they will want to do it as fast as they can to get it up and running because it was a facility not used for their the same purpose and so the Investments probably have to be made relatively soon in order to operate but that's I'm just at making a stab at it I don't know that that's true I know that they discussed their interest part of the the two hundred thousand had to do with

[0:39:34] making the cash flow work early in the project yeah so Michael I mean this looks consistent my concern here is is the protection of VG einsteiner the LLC to go through a tax burden you know this is consistent of what we've seen with these proposals before and that's fine but you know I have no problem with this tax abatement marriages because it gives them some protection against what of all what all of us has experienced the past 90 days and I think everybody's asked right questions yeah I think that it's not so much challenging that but just trying to get the information out and the questions answered but not necessarily concerned about the proposal but just trying to be informed so that is a second that was the second and I'm going to accept that second if there are no more questions Karen I haven't seen if you've raised your hand or if you had questions um or want some more information on this no ma'am no more questions okay thank you so with that we have a motion we have a second do we have public comment good morning rock templin singer member district six yes the only question I had was on how the uh tax abatement was figured uh as we all know uh like in 2020 sitetel paid sixty five thousand dollars of that year on a value of 2.7 million uh the last two years the value went down to 1.2 million and so I was trying to figure out how that 65 559 was figured over the four years well it's one of the reasons why in asking the question is if the building had physically closed whether the purchase of the building had closed because the tax abatement is it based off of the purchase price or

[0:41:37] the improvements made so I'm assuming the tax abatement is based off of a praise prize and that appraised price must be the last purchase price not the current purchase price and so when you give these incentives are they based off of the last purchase price or the new contract incentives would be based on the increased value associated with the improvements and so regardless of what they spend if we estimate what they purchase it for exactly if the value only goes up a small amount then they only get a small abatement however if the value goes up a significant amount as a result of their improvements then that additional value would goes back to purchase price though so I mean the vat let's say they put in an all-new HVAC system okay so that's a big purchase in a building that size it's a large investment separate from let's say a increase in valuation based off of a closed contract for purchase of the building and I think that's the question is is it on the price of the building that the abatement is figured or simply on the improvements this is on the improvements that answers that question go ahead Tommy two because you use the word estimated so you you don't know precisely yet so that's the reason you you included the word estimated in the presentation so so does the incentive need to be total abatement estimated at and is the final abatement number or let's say the improvements are more significant in cost than

[0:43:41] anticipated so that the abatement estimate would be higher this is not approval of the abatement this is only concept discussion for the abatement portion so you a you don't have to work that out today because we will need to bring you a specific proposal related to the abatement that answer everyone's question okay so with that any further public comment all right we'll take a vote all those in favor say aye Kieran aye thank you that that motion is approved seven zero we will move into item C discuss and consider adoption of a resolution to feasing and calling for Redemption a portion of the city of San Angelo Texas combination Tax and Revenue certificates of obligation series 2016 and enacting other matters related to the subject Director of Finance the city is looking at defusing eight hundred thousand dollars worth of outstanding bonds related to the 2016 streets uh certificate of obligation those funds will be allocated into an escrow account from The Debt Service funds fund balance and the purpose of this defeasants is so that we can free up monies and make available that amount of money in escrow so that we can work out the Benedetti repurchase agreement when speaking with our bond Council and financial advisors they advise that we could not set up this repurchase agreement unless we had that amount diffused from our debt service so that it re-characterizes it as kind of general fund dollars rather than debt that helps us avoid some issues with federal tax law when it comes to tax exempt bonds so to be really clear what we're asking if if we purchased that machine for eight hundred thousand

[0:45:43] dollars and we had the right to return it right then they were to pay us back for the purchase of that machine so I believe this city paid 1.2 million dollars for that machine in 2017 I believe 2016 I'll be 16. um and so this would be a mechanism whereby the company repurchases the equipment from the city yes ma'am and they would make quarterly payments or annual payments quarterly payments over the course of four years are there questions for Tina seeing no questions for Tina may I have a motion for approval I moved to approvement Lucy moves for approval the second Tommy sick seconds that motion any public comment say none will take a vote all those in favor say aye aye thank you would not oppose that motion passes 7-0 we'll move into item D an appeal of the planning commission's action on March 20th 2023 to deny an application for conditional use for a short-term rental at 3221 Red Bluff Road West John you're on thank you John James director planning and development services this is a request for a short-term rental as you probably know that those can be approved by conditional use which normally goes to the Planning Commission and it ends there in this case it was denied by the commission based on a 3-3 vote so technically it didn't receive enough votes for approval but it was a tie vote three to three and so the applicant based on that denial has now appealed that to you all so you all can make the final decision on that appeal this is an area at the lake you can see the map there the location it is rs1 zoning so single-family zoning in District One just a couple of pictures of the home and as noted in the letter provided to

[0:47:46] you by the applicants they plan on making significant upgrades to the home once it becomes a short-term rental if that is approved we did send 12 notices out to the surrounding Property Owners none responded in favor we did have two responses in writing in opposition as well as three additional citizens from the area spoke at the Planning Commission meeting um staff did recommend approval at the Planning Commission we still would recommend approval with these three conditions those are just standard conditions for getting the proper permits and approvals and inspections of the facility um as I mentioned the Planning Commission did result in a 3-3 tie so that was not sufficient to approve it so Council does need to vote whether or not to uphold that denial or to approve the short-term rental this is just a simple majority this is not one of those situations that requires a super majority so it s simple majority vote the fact that this slide before this one go through all those [Music] yeah the conditions basically they have to maintain all the required number of off-street parking for a short-term rental they have to get a certificate of occupancy that includes inspections to ensure that they're up to current code on everything and also a fire inspection both an initial fire inspection with the certificate of occupancy but also a recurring annual fire inspection and that's largely because you know you don't have to do that in your own single family home but because these are transient guests coming in sort of like a hotel then there's that extra inspection required to ensure that it's fake it's safe from a fire safety perspective and that has to be done every year okay I'll note that you did receive that letter from the from the applicants uh in your packet they indicated that they have spoken to

[0:49:51] a number of the neighbors and in fact one of those applicants it's a group of three uh people that have jointly purchased this one of the three have moved into the house two doors down and they've indicated that that um partly an intent to help oversee this facility and ensure that it doesn't create problems I will also note that one of the reasons we recommend most of these short-term rentals that come before the Planning Commission is that these have a mandatory one-year renewal and so if there are any problems over the coming year that will be presented to the Planning Commission in one year when this comes up for Renewal and could be denied for that renewal what happens along the way in terms of if excuse me a lot of complaints due to the people who stay in this home along the way does it take one full year before it can be revoked I believe we have a process for revocation um so if there were a significant number of police complaints code enforcement complaints staff could bring it back for reconsideration or to consider revoking it prior to that um you also as a conditional use you can place whatever conditions you choose on the approval so although we have not recommended it in the past one option could be to have that be a shorter time frame that they would have to come back for Renewal I will note though that for a number of these that we've approved in the past once they get your approval if they do they've got this process for certificate of occupancy Fire Marshal inspections they often will have to make some improvements to the property and in fact these these folks intend to make some improvements so if for example you chose to require them to renew in six months they might not even be open in six months because of the time it takes to remodel and get those inspections so I would I guess that would be my caution

[0:51:54] if we make a renewal period Too Short we've found that these typically don't open for at least three to six months after they get the approval I know in the past at Lake nasworthy that many of the concerns of people who live at the lake own property at the lake that too often these short-term rentals more people than should be allowed were staying in these that parking took over the streets the partying was aggressive and disturbing to the neighborhood so I don't know if those are the reasons I say that in terms of opposition to it but I know that the lake nazworthy folks have had the greatest concern about short-term rentals that being said I'm going to let Tommy um ask questions and make comments since it's your district and you've lived through that yes ma'am I have in fact I see one person here I believe who lived through that nightmare maybe two actually um yeah three okay sorry sorry that lived through the nightmare on Red Bluff West John I do have a couple of questions for you if this is approved as a conditional use does that stay with the property I'll say in perpetuity um as long as that property does it have to be continually used or or requires so much use for it to maintain its status as a conditional use in Str Eng it does not it would continue it's sort of like rezoning in that it would continue with the property um until revoked or again in this case it's it's only good for a year so at the end of the year if they don't seek renewal then it would it would go away so I know one question we've gotten before is what if they sell it to somebody else maybe we trust these guys

[0:53:56] but if they then sell it to somebody else and when we don't know how they will run it but again because of that time limit you know worst cases you you know it would it only be a year at least for that first year subsequent renewals are required every two years so there is an automatic expiration in a case where problems would come up like that another question you've mentioned the fire marshal on having to have that inspection do we get do you all seek input from the fire department on these things I've been out there four or five times and I don't I'm not trying to use a word to to make it a pun I guess you couldn't take it that way but this is a tight neighborhood those homes are extremely close together out there the street is very I'm going to say narrow I'm just wondering has the fire department commented in terms of them having their apparatus their equipment in there do they make comments to you they do the short answer is uh from from the fire department perspective they look at this similar to a single family home and so they have concerns about getting down this street but they have concerns about getting down this street for the people who live there and to them it's really not that much different um whether it's a short-term rental or a single-family home they've got to provide the service regardless to that point Tommy remind us I know when these were originally approved there was a minimum road that I thought was attached to the Str so if the road was an x amount of feet wide they couldn't do an Str is that correct or not that is correct although there's been some recent court cases that have basically thrown that out we're not able to um we're not able to apply that

[0:55:58] condition anymore and in fact I don't remember on this specific one how wide that road is it May in fact meet that width I'm not 100 sure but yeah that that court case basically said in that respect you you really can't treat it differently than a single family home if it's if it's good enough for a single family home it's good enough for a short-term rental mayor the the in my opinion that road is is is wide enough for one vehicle um if if you've got a couple of uh fire department uh apparatus out there equipment out there doing something it it's it's going to fill the street up quickly um with just with their equipment um again I see some of the folks that have lived through this out there if if it matter if it would be okay with the chair I would like to hear from them to see if they um still have this because I have also watched the Planning Commission meeting several times uh via YouTube and um they were very um strong and passionate in their opposition to this I I if they are amenable to speaking again one way or the other I would like to hear from the folks that have lived this I don't have a problem with that I want to make just one comment and that is you know we get on a daily basis in our mail the number of strs that are being submitted and approved and you know most of us buy a home to live in a neighborhood so in a neighborhood you know your neighbors instead of on a rotating basis not knowing who your neighbor is and so I look at it and I go and this isn't specifically to this property I'm saying it in a broader bigger Manner and that is when do neighborhoods stop being neighborhoods where neighbor knows neighbor and I just I just say that it's obviously a trend that's happening across the country and you can certainly

[0:58:01] see in the city of San Angelo tremendous amount of Str is being approved so up to that point I'm going to allow those who are in the audience before a motion is made to go ahead and come to the microphone and speak so those who would like to once again make sure you state your name obviously you probably live in that District but say your District anyway morning Council my name is Mark priest I live at 3205 Red Bluff Road West which is about four houses down from where this house in question is as Council you brought up many of the points that we as homeowners have dealt with what's very different about this situation is we've already lived it okay and so yes Str is in different part of towns there's different parts of town there haven't been issues necessarily but the environment is completely different this is a dead end street with all of our driveways face each other I see these people every day we share Christmas presents we just don't feel this is a place for a business you know it's just not the kind of environment uh with the house that we had next door we had fifth wheels parked in the front yard we had tents propped up out in the back uh one time now we even all took pictures uh couldn't even get into my own driveway because there were so many people at the at the lake house so we we asked for the consideration here because the scenario is different this is not like a neighborhood where it's Santa reader or one of the other places because it's a dead-end street it's uh it's a very social area as you mentioned Tommy we're all very very close together um we just feel like in this scenario it's going to be a party house because all of us that have come to you and even when all the Str details were being worked out we very we were very strong in voicing our opinions as neighbors out there at the lake because

[1:00:04] we'd already experienced scenarios where it just absolutely gets out of hand so we asked for your consideration there's one of the neighbors not able to come he's disabled really difficult for him to get out of his house but I have his son a piece of paper as well that uh I think you yeah I would hope you'd take into consideration thank you Mark Mark would you give her a copy of that letter please or the letter thank you for your time I want to bring the microphone down just a bit so we can hear you I'm a little short Arna thank you for your time and for the opportunity to speak my name is Donna Ferguson I live next door to the house that uh your that is requesting the zoning change I live at 3217 the house for asking for the zoning change is 32-21 and I also live next door to the house that operated as a short-term rental for several years I've been in my home 23 years and during this time some of the tenants that uh rented that home were disrespectful abusive inconsiderate and apathetic people who stay in str's at the lake uh want to invite their friends and family to join them and many of them disregard the rules totally they do things at the lake that they wouldn't do anywhere else especially when alcohol is involved and alcohol is involved nearly every weekend they create traffic flow problems for the residents for trash pickup for mail carriers and for emergency vehicles because those off-road parking spots that they have are in their driveways but when they invite people in you see an influx of 10 15 cars

[1:02:09] so there's always extra cars and you can imagine they generate a lot of trash and litter when enough trash containers are not provided in our single family we have one for recycling and one for regular trash pickup who rent could care less about recycling they use it for trash they put trash in the other one they put the rest of it on the ground and with wind and the Little Critters we have out that way the residents pick them up and it blows in our yards too and since I'm right there it I get it first they are the runners pose the danger to the wildlife in that area with some Reckless Behavior and they disregard the doe wake zone that's something that's a real issue personally I've had to cope with offensive language loud music cell phone light shining in my house they turned them off when I walked out the door beer cans being thrown in my yard smoked from a fire pit that they built one of the renters while they were there a potato gun being shot off which got me out of my house because I thought somebody was shooting a gun um the fireworks being shot toward my house trespassing theft using my doc for their purposes chasing their Unleashed dogs across my property and parents allowing their children to do things like throw rocks which kids will do things that but not at my pets and that was an issue and it needs for you to wrap up your comments okay well I'm opposed to them for the very simple reason we have five foot lot lines out there and I can sit on my um patio and hear what the ones next door to us have to say because of Lake laws

[1:04:15] and terrain there we're all on the hill and there is open uh boundary lines all across and they uh the police will be very busy if we have to call somebody because that was our issue we didn't call enough so they'll be very busy on weekends thank you very much and this will not alleviate problems this will only cause them to exist again in five minutes I'm sorry that's okay you're just fine more public comment please hi Elizabeth Teeter we come to you as the owners of the short-term lease property in the period of time since this was initially denied we have had time to do more due diligence in the neighborhood and speak with some of the neighbors including the ones here today the big issues we hear are mostly in regards to the property that was just referenced that is falsely being called a previous short-term rental property which is the one next to the woman who's just here the property next to her she's speaking about a lot of the neighbors did believe that was a short-term rental property because of the events that were taking place there one of the owners of our group it is myself personally and my husband have since purchased that property we're very excited we're just about wrapping up the investment and hoping to move it in the next two months so I speak to you not just as the owners of the property but also as a tenant on the street soon to be that house was never a short-term rental property that was just a very negligent owner who did not care for his neighbors and I will say first and foremost we're excited to take this property over and we have no intention of being that type of neighbor we're moving in with our son and we're looking forward to this being a property that we can continue to raise our family on with those issues with the large Gatherings we hear absolutely what our neighbors are saying we did write the letter to you guys and we'd like to elaborate on some of those measures that we're taking to ensure that this property is not a hindrance to the

[1:06:18] neighbors one of the big issues is the parking a strict part of our contract our short-term rental contract will be that off-site parking is not allowed we've already hired an architect to do a site plan for us which is what the city is requiring in order to get a permit to add additional parking that's non-negotiable we will be adding additional parking as part of the short-term rental property because we do not want people parking on the street and hindering egress for the the residents who live there furthermore we do not want there to be a noise issue one of the benefits almost a coincidence that we are moving onto the street ourselves is that we will know very quickly if there is a noise problem and we can immediately terminate the short-term rental contract or intervene if needed because we're so close to the property on top of that we are proposing to add a privacy fence as part of our extensive our extensive Renovations we will be adding a privacy fence along both sides of the property along the full length of the property to ensure that there is no opportunity for the people in the short-term rental to interfere with neighbors on either side and we are doing extensive Pro extensive improvements to the property to turn this into a luxury property I know you've seen the picture of what it looks like now we are of the belief that the nightly rate alone will deter some of the type of party goers that a lot of the residents in the neighborhood are wary of and that is absolutely Our intention we do not intend for this to be a college hangout spot if you will we want this for a place to be families can come spend time together spend time with their family get to see a beautiful part of San Angelo which is the lake and interact with with the lake from this beautiful property it is not our intention I promise is someone moving next door to it to have this be a property that is going to be a party area would either of you like to add something we're also going to be we're also going to be adding decimal name sir I'm sorry Lewis Marino I'm also one of the owners uh we're also thinking about adding

[1:08:20] decibel meters uh that will alert us if the noise levels do get too loud so we can go over there like they said they live right next door we'd be able to go over there address the issue call them right away and let let them know hey things are getting a little too rowdy let's keep it down um you know I know a couple of the neighbors that are on the street and you know they're dear friends of mine so I definitely don't want to disrespect their properties and you know we want to also protect their houses as well as our investments so that's one thing that we do want to make sure that y'all know and do consider thank you my name is Rusty bartolomeo I'm also a local realtor as well as a business owner I'm owner of the Angelo Ale House uh this this is a project that we've we put a lot of time and effort into and a whole lot of money if you think that we're going to allow anyone to come in and be disrespectful to our place with the amount of money we put in absolutely not I just want to let you guys know we are this is going to be you know ran strict and we do not intend to allow any kind of partying or any kind of activity that would be disruptive to our neighbors we just want to say thank you again for listening to us today we're really excited for this opportunity we're excited for what it means to the city for people to have the opportunity to come in and see different parts of San Angelo and how beautiful it is we think this is an amazing property for it we we see the value in it we hope that you guys do it as well so again thank you for your time today thank you please come forward hi there I'm Troy Jacob three two one three Red Bluff Road West District One um just like other neighbors I haven't had to live through the long-term rental or short-term rentals nightmares like they have but just in the short period that we've been there three years next to us was a a rental but even with it being a

[1:10:23] long-term rental still people don't respect the the properties trash out of control everything but another thing I wanted to bring up on this is that in the requirements of a short-term rental there cannot be another short-term rental within 500 feet of said property now I'm last night uh I took the liberty of bringing up Google Maps and I did a pin drop from the back of my porch to the house the the bread and breakfast that is across the way from us it is 400 feet now I don't know if that that 500 feet goes from property line to property line I'm not sure how they how they look at that uh but that's something to to look at the and that and my wife looked it up last night and as of yesterday that bread and breakfast still shows up on the Copper Top Lighthouse bread and breakfast is still in operation so that's something to look at when we look at the yes Tom so I'm not quite clear so you measured from this this proposed Str to the bed and breakfast well I measured from my back porch I took a pinch off from my back porch they're two houses down for me okay now there the lands laid out it makes a curve so that's why I'm saying it needs to be looked at is to exactly how to measure from Str you measured from your house yes sir yes okay is your house an SDR no okay I own the house all right so I'm just I'm just trying to figure out I'm still not clear well I want to make I want you all to make sure that or we need to make sure that the strs are not within the 500 feet of each other because we're so close together that if it goes from property line to property line then they could very well be within that 500 feet let me ask a question so John

[1:12:29] can I pick up all the things that yes can I clarify what the code says we address bed and breakfast and short-term rentals separately and our so I was just going to ask and this the requirement regarding the 500 feet is the short-term rental may not be located on a lot that's within 500 feet of a lot which in other short-term rental is located bed and breakfast is separate from that it's not included in that what about Airbnb because you know today in today's world there's bed and breakfast there's Airbnb and there's short-term rental and I'm assuming without knowing that the rules and regulations vary but if you take a street and have a combination of Airbnb bed and breakfast and short-term rental it changes the context of that street but I'm just making that comment what was the answer yeah um basically Airbnb is just the the website that hosts bed and breakfasts and short-term rentals but under our code uh you have to be registered to legally operate as either a bed and breakfast for short-term rental um we do know and we're in the process of identifying those that are operating illegally in fact letters have gone out to those that that's why you'll see on this next month's Planning Commission I think there's 10 or 15 short-terminal requests from those folks who have been operating without the the permits and are coming in to get those but we do check the 500 feet distance on all short terminals okay but that your comment just brings up my comment in terms of the question if Airbnb is the website that leases all of these out and yet so they lease out Airbnb I mean bed and breakfast and they do short-term rental but they're the mother up here that does this down here how are the rules different for bed and breakfast versus short-term rental because if it's hosted by the same company or the same box how does that different most of the rules are the same in our ordinance the

[1:14:32] difference between a bed and breakfast is a bed and breakfast has individual rooms that are rented so you might have multiple bedrooms rented separately a short-term rental is when you rent the entire home as one rental and that's really the only difference but let me ask you a question on a short-term rental does it require that the rent short-term rental is for a 29 or 30 day lease period or can someone lease that short-term rental to somebody different every weekend for one month [Music] the question okay so I have a short-term rental and person one wants it only for the weekend of July 4th person two wants it for the next weekend because it's a family reunion week three of July I want to rent it out just because I'm on a honeymoon and I want it in week four I'm gonna lease it out to my grandmother and grandfather is that a short-term rental can that happen or is that an Airbnb or what is it because again if the same mother up here is overseeing all of this down here what's the difference between an Airbnb letting out different rooms versus every weekend somebody new renting out a house that is a short-term rental if if there's a rental of an entire house for a period of less than 30 days that is a short-term rental and that's what most of the rentals on Airbnb now are most of them aren't true bread and breakfast where they're renting out individual rooms it's typically whole house rentals then I'm going to ask a legal question of Teresa before this moves much further there is a request in my neighborhood if you will for short-term rental which I will oppose so am I really allowed to have an opinion and vote on this one today

[1:16:35] absolutely you are this is completely separate that'll be a separate decision with a separate application I've got three coming up in the next a week but you're talking hypothetical sense yeah yeah so it's just your grandmother in the wedding and all the uh didn't know where you were going to go because again we say there's different rules for Airbnb but yet you could approach The house's one room if logically and rent it out to four different people in one month and so and you could rent out an Airbnb for a wedding party and have every room rented out for various parties in the wedding party and so legitimately the Airbnb would be one party every room for one weekend or one week I once I had some questions to John when he finished John come back up okay finish I'm sorry I just got one more thing to say and that's your time will start over because I interrupted my apologies but you brought up an interesting point but they also mentioned putting up a privacy fence down both sides of the property now I know there are regulations or rules or whatever against fences over four people anything built over four feet high obstructing the view of the lake from the neighbors so that's something else to be looked at as well thank you thank you for allowing us to interrupt and ask questions please come forward the new one then no no okay good morning good morning I'm Daniel Gossett 3225 Red Bluff West I am right next to it as well I lived The Horde earlier I am very passionate very heated about this I tried to raise my young daughters next to this the first time they are now teenage daughters anyone up here sitting

[1:18:40] that says that they'll have an Str next door to them is lying or has not lived it I have I've had horror stories I do not want to relive this if I do it's just going to be ugly again they're adding on to the back of this the garage is converted how many people do they think you're gonna house and be civil the street is not wide enough we are too close to the lighthouse measured from dstr that they want to no one here is is confused that this used to be an Str we all know which one the Str was this is a new Str property not two houses down for me next door to me I vented my frustration at the planning committee they denied it they said there it was going to take six months or a year now we're here two months later it was on the docket last month how does this happen I thought we had six months or a year before they could even appeal now we're appealing I run a mechanic shop I can't put a mechanic shop at my house you can't put a hotel in a neighborhood it has gotten crazy supposed to be Case by case we can't compare it to the others you approved this one is on a short cul-de-sac Street no one here wants it we do not like hotels in our neighborhood when I leave town to go volunteer my time who is protecting my family with all these vagabonds that come in because when they rent this house it's like all the airbnbs they will rent it split it between people come and take over and that's fine at a hotel or even a resort this is not a resort this is a neighborhood we are very tight-knit we are very secure in what we want and that we want a neighborhood to raise our families not battle this all the time these additions going up that's all just to make more money and pack more people in up occupancy

[1:20:43] what's the max occupancy like I have lots of questions and the fencing you can't put a fence up a privacy fence to guard us from anything I'm right next door I mean it is tight you can see in the aerial footage so the lighthouse is too close the road is too narrow we are very frustrated I am very frustrated because I mean I've walked out my door my daughter's saying who's on our dock I don't know I'll walk down there hey what are you guys doing well We're Just Fishing Off the dock you want us to leave and I was like well you kind of rented the place a couple houses down Don't You Wanna go over there well I just thought this was for everybody what are you gonna do about it [Music] with my young daughter's next to me that is a very frustrating situation for me luckily she was there because you can't come to my property and threaten me like that and it will happen again I walk out front somebody's stealing my firewood man what are you doing this my firewood I thought this is for everybody no your house is down there this is my house if you want something from me you ask me for it I'll give you a shirt off my back but don't take something from me and don't threaten my kid my my family so this is threatening my family again thank you very much further public comment I've only allowed each person to talk one time at the microphone you can visit with him back there if you want to the next person hello Ken Taylor 2810 Red Bluff Road I'm also the current uh like now Israeli HOA president I know that we have several people from the neighborhood who are here because they've received letters and they know exactly what's going on but I can't assure you that this is an issue that all of our residents at the lake watch this because we deal with it in multiple areas mayor Gunter to your point um you were asking about how strs are structured different from airbnbs versus

[1:22:46] anyways where you were going with that is 100 correct we are aware of properties on the lake they're rented out by groups of people and then they time share them and that's how they circumvent the rules of short-term rentals and airbnbs so we watch this very closely um we would just like to appeal to y'all that we are a neighborhood there are residential areas of the lake and there are commercial areas of the lake There Are Places on the lake where you can rent RV spots or cabins or other things if you want to come in for the weekend and we're fine with that being in those commercial locations please leave our neighborhoods alone allow us to be at home when we're at home it is very much a hotel setting when you bring an Airbnb into he said he's a particular spot none of us want to go outside and wonder Who's Next Door especially when we have children young daughters I don't think we have to elaborate on any of that y'all understand what the situation is there are several rules that were put in place to dictate where airbnbs and short-term rentals can go whether or not court cases have said that those standard don't stand we're talking about going against those rules why did we make those rules if we're going to allow strs to go in where we said they can't be whether it be because of distancing or because of the streets there are a lot of issues here and it does not fit this space so we would encourage all to stand up with the ruling that was given by the council first time around thank you thank you further public comment Tom might be a good time for you to you said you had some questions so go ahead Karen I'll then come to you if you have any questions after Tom is through with his if you have any so if you'll just be on guard with your questions and here refunding how many Str is around the lake I mean how many strs are on the lake I don't have that we have a map of them

[1:24:52] in the office but I I don't know off the top of my head well in so I am the and I'll kind of tell where I'm going with John we're good I'm just going to make a statement on this I'm a VRBO Airbnb user I use when I go out of town I'm one of those vagabonds that do show up but I will tell you this much uh uh we're very respectful what happens and those offer alternatives to hotels when you're traveling with elderly or traveling with pets and do things like that where we mostly do those are in much larger cities than this I came into this heavily cited that you know I'm a vbrstr there are some in my district there are some that are going to come in and up with this same thing in the next couple weeks but I will tell you I will agree with Mr Gossett these things need to be on a case-by-case basis and I I am not uh fond of having this one go right where it's at today just by what his people have talked about today and Shona's and and I would agree I mean I have seen my son and other people go to other lakes and rent a house and 12 kids end up in a house all right and I I feel bad about that and I agree with that it's just my statement on where we'll go with this today Aaron do you have comments you would like to make or questions you'd like to ask at this point I would like to say that I think it's been an excellent discussion all the points that I might have been interested in making or questions that I might have asked have been have been brought forward already the single thing that perhaps has not been discussed and it's only relevant because we have more of this coming forward as everyone's pointed out in the next few weeks is the revocation process so slightly separate from this but also related it might be worthwhile to spend a minute to have the appropriate person explain to us how that's actually Quantified how complaints are Quantified what constitutes enough to shut down a short-term rental if it is approved and

[1:26:57] then it's found to be unacceptable under the circumstances I would like to hear that myself John you want to answer her questions well the the short answer on what is enough is it's up to the Planning Commission and you all uh winner either when a renewal comes back to you or a possible revocation comes back to you you would hear the input from Neighbors you would you would see the list of complaints to code enforcement police any other similar types of complaints uh one thing we do with any renewal is we check with fire police code enforcement to see what complaints have been offered on a particular property so there's no magic number of how many complaints get you to that point but it would be a discretionary decision on either whether to revoke or whether or not to renew a short-term rental and it would all that evidence would be presented initially to the Planning Commission but then it could be appealed to you all does that answer your question Karen I think so so it from what you've said throughout the course of this this dialogue is that we can infer that the proper course of action to file a complaint includes reporting directly to the police department uh possibly the fire department uh code enforcements and then being present and lodging your complaint in person when renewal is uh so when when renewal when a property is reviewed for renewal is that something that the the same procedure is followed in other words the same notifications are sent out to the neighbors this second time to alert them that the renewal is on the docket on the agenda for the Planning Commission that's correct it follows the same process same notifications to the surrounding property owners Lucy okay thank you Karen yes John my question is did this Str meet the

[1:29:00] requirements the criteria that we have down for strs well yes it meets the minimum requirements otherwise it wouldn't have come forward in the process but as with any conditional use it's a case-by-case determination uh for you all based on the context what's around it neighbor complaints all of that sort of thing so um I know we've had some applicants who think well I meet the standards then you you've got to approve it and that's not true it is a discretionary decision by you all you know Teresa because this came up earlier do we need to re-review the short-term rental thing for example because originally it was written with the um statement concerning width of Street and the street had to be so wide in order to be approved and now we find that um there's been a change in policy or or legal approach to that are there other things that have come up that also invalidate the actual short-term rental that we use or that was written and approved I'm not yet the only thing that we have seen come through so far is that 35th 30 feet in width for the streets but this is a very hot area of litigation in bigger cities in Austin and Plano those sorts of cities and so we're going to get some differing opinions based out of different courts and it's going to take appeals to figure out actually what the rules for strs are it's up to you if you want to bring it back you know I think going back to Karen's question it's kind of a vague statement on revocation that's listed that there to comply with applicable standards may result in revocation and certificate of occupancy if we did bring it back I might want to look at that language and tighten that up a little bit as well to make it more clear what kinds of things would be involved in that kind of revocation but we definitely could clean up the 30-foot width language that's included here just to add on to that we have had that

[1:31:02] discussion with the Planning Commission and in fact we've talked with Brandon and Teresa's office about some possible changes and identified those uh part of the reason we've been holding off is to wait on some of these court cases but also the legislative session just ended and there were a couple of short-term rental bills that were being considered I think they all failed we'll double check that but we do have plans to bring back some changes my concern on having plans to bring back is the following I have a stack of short-term rentals this thick in my mailbox for requests for approvals do we move forward knowing that the language might change in terms of what is or isn't applicable or qualifying underneath these new rules because I'm I'm shocked at the number of cases and I do believe that's directly related to the audit that's going on and people are realizing that we are finding them when they didn't think we could so um that is part of that those places have been operating in the city the whole time I'm not overly concerned that our ordinance is not enforceable at this point with the exception of that 30 foot wide distance and we've just been waiving that requirement when it comes up which I think has only been once um so it's completely at your discretion I don't see any reason why we can't process those unless there's just a policy difference that you guys have regarding str's in general I'll tell you total bans are not popular with the courts so um that's probably not the direction you want to go but it's completely up to you how you want to handle it is in there that gives the council the authority to look at that within six months or something in certain circumstances well I think the issue is being a lake property certainly the Lake

[1:33:06] Properties have a seasonality that short-term rentals and other neighborhoods don't have a seasonality as the lake does so that's the other issue here now who else has questions or comments to make go ahead Lucy um I was going to say um I'm also a person that rents an Airbnb and I am very respectful when I go to that Airbnb the people that are renting it or also has a list you walk in and it's got a list of things you can and cannot do so for that alone you're very aware um the parking and all that stuff y'all seem to have taken care of that you also have come across like Hey we're doing the very best we can you're going to be two doors down how many people would love to be able to do an Str and just be ride down the street and when they see anything happening you gotta do is run down there and take care of it the the other uh part of it is that I'm also I I tend to feel for those people that have to put up with that it's not any different than myself when I'm at home and my neighbors having a party and they're allowed their cars are all along those the side of the road the trash is overbearing it's not just at the strs it is practically all over town and there's nothing we can do and you you don't want to get your neighbor upset because then it starts off so you kind of like wait it out and move on but um all I'm saying is that um I would I would like to see this approved for the mere fact that um I love for people to come in from out of town and see our Lake and enjoy it and come back and I would tell you that probably for the most part it is not these big parties that we're talking about it is probably families that are three four six that are just going to

[1:35:09] enjoy a weekend and that's my belief that's that's what I think so with that I would I'll make a motion um I make a motion that we deny the appeal and uphold the planning commission's denial so is there didn't deny it it was a time it was it wasn't denied it was three three so it was a tie but if you want to so if you just that is a denial it is denial because it didn't get a majority so it is a denial and I think Karen just seconded that did she yeah I did all right so we've had a lot of public comment but our typical procedure is a motion a second and then an opportunity for public comments so I'm going to open the floor for further public comment now that there's an actual um motion on the floor for denial Steve Hampton five Angelo I would good it's good to see you again welcome back and Lucy's asking questions I like that I love that uh and I have a comment that I think the tie goes to the runner and uh is a good way to approach it and that uh that once you've decided in your motion is good I also agree with the mayor that this needs to be reevaluated um I there are similarities between the bed and breakfast and the uh short-term rentals that uh that are that need to be reevaluated and from what she mentioned I also uh think that there needs to be a commercial uh designated area for these things to be in and um and we might recommend to the family in that on that block that they get an

[1:37:11] HOA going uh where to keep these kind of things from penetrating into their their area so uh thank you further public comment I'm assuming Theresa that if they made a public comment earlier announced open for public comment they could come back and speak and still live within our rules or not generally we interpret it as on one item but you run the meeting mayor so if you want to allow that then that's fine I know there's at least one person who would like to um or maybe two who would like to make further public comment Ian Taylor I apologize when I was up earlier I meant to also clarify as the neighbors said they are aware of the building restrictions out there and they cannot build a privacy fence all the way down both sides of the property so if that's part of their plan to control and uh overview this property that's outside our restrictions you can't do that our Lake fronts must maintain lower than a four foot fence clear to your neighbors so trying to say that you can keep everything controlled within that a lot is not really a clear answer so thank you I have a question yes Larry go ahead Mr Taylor did you want to ask him Mr Hampton indicated that they should form up an HOA but I thought you identified yourself yes we do have an HOA all right and it does cover all of the owned lake lots and some of the least Lots they have that option to uh be a part of our HOA but yes it is in place and we are about 525 members strong but the homeowners association doesn't override an ordinance so so you can have a homeowners but it can't control uh Str because by policy strs can exist in the city so they don't override that correct well we don't enforce that they would have to enforce that themselves if they passed rules that prohibited some of this activity then they would be the enforcement body that would have to take

[1:39:12] care of that which is not as effective as the city coming in and doing it but they have rules out there that we do not have and we feel that we have good representation from the city and we appreciate y'all monitoring this for us and we have not taken that step to try and ban it ourselves because it has not been that big of an issue yet thank you okay I just wanted to clarify one thing for y'all the people that bought the house next to me that wants to have the Str did not buy the house on the other side of me I have another neighbor that did they bought the house further over and they have not they are not living there present they are working on it so I just want you to know that they can't keep people from doing things because they're there because they're not for the public comment right with that then we have a motion on the floor to deny the approval of the short-term rental at 3221 Red Bluff Road West so I'm going to start with Karen your vote can I make a second oh wait a minute I thought I had a second Karen second second yeah your vote uh motion to deny I uh my vote is to deny one Larry vote to deny Lucy vote to approve Harry mayor Gunter vote to deny motion to deny the approval of the Str at 3221 has been approved at a vote of six to one we'll move on to item e first reading and public hearing of an ordinance amending appendix a article a 8.000 subsection a 8.002 monthly water rates sanitary sewer

[1:41:18] discharge charges Industrial Waste charges sewer tap charges and Shane you're on all right mayor council um if y'all will remember um back several months ago we came to yell for a meter replacement program to start with the city and so um we've started that process but in that we've got some really long lead times and so on these uh okay there she is hello she finally came online you're full screen Karen yeah Karen be careful you're full screen I'm surprised but uh and so in the in the lead time coming up on the lead times on these we're starting to see quite a few of our meters fail throughout the system and so um currently we do not have within our ordinance any means to to collect on these meters that are they're going bad they're breaking things like that and so we're looking at amending our ordinance current ordinance that we have to um actually be able to go back in charge or create charges for the uh then so that are dead these dying meters so with this we will look at um going back and averaging the last three months of active usage or if they've had you're long enough going all the way back to the previous year so and looking at it that direction so um any questions concerning that let's be clear okay so my meter's dad so basically all I've been charged is the minimum amount allowable the basic rate but I've been using water for three months including filling my pool up yes ma'am and yet I'm only paying the basic rate and because we do not have an ordinance in play that allows us to average the water usage from previous months or years we cannot charge that person for

[1:43:23] the use of the water because the ordinance in play does not exist because that's clear it does not exist the current the current current ordinance that we have does not have a way for us to recover uh those losses that were on the meters that are broken or not registering so we don't have we don't have any way to collect or charge for that and so this ordinance will allow that allow us to go back and establish rates based on previous either the last three active months previous usage and or if they've had an established service long enough we can go back an entire a year or two years look at that same period and charge them at that at those basic average of those rates and so that way allows to recover some of these lost lost revenues that we're seeing we're averaging right now currently approximately 25 000 a month in Lost Revenue based on our existing dead meters we're hoping to have meters coming in in the replacement program hopefully by this fall we're seeing a 10 to 14 month lead time on meters and so that industry just has never recovered from the covet and and how far behind they got especially on the 5 8 is which we're really seeing our meters those are the ones they're the majority of them households that have them those those are the majority of our meters that we're seeing failing and so again right now we're we're losing about 25 000 a month in revenue and so this is a way this amendment will allow us to be able to start recovering those um those funds that uh that we're losing right now are currently not able to collect on do I have a question Tom huge so are we talking about a meter we're replacing a meter and charging them for the meter we're talking about a rate with this basically this um we're not we're in a meter replacement program and so as we get the meters in we go out and we replace the meters and there's no charge for replacing the meters it's just however right now a lot of the meters that we have already out

[1:45:26] there they're dying or dead they're getting older end of life basically and so when we get to that point uh it just it's just sitting there because we don't have any meters to replace it with uh we're waiting on they're not being charged for water so any water this is all just a base just minimum minimum charge yeah just the base fee and so um with all the water passing through we can't register it and with our existing ordinance if we can't register the water we're not we're not able to charge for it with this we'll be able to with this amendment we will be able to estimate based on the prior three months usage and or if they've had a service long enough we can use the same period of time the prior year to estimate get that estimate for amount of water an estimate of water usage at that residence or wherever that dead meter is and we'll use that to calculate for the charge that we would charge moving forward I'm good with all that but what if you're what if say you're uh a renter or somebody rents a lot of homes and you have homes that are not being used and so it's not being used right now it hadn't been used for three months but it was used a year ago for three months how do we solve that if um again we will we'll do our best work through if it's not being if of course if they're not using it using the meter and they don't want to charge they're not using the water then they can always have the meter disconnected and we can look at it from there and try to re-establish it but again we will do our best to work with each individual customer to establish to establish some some rate in there that they feel is reasonable Lucy um Shane are these dead meters residential or commercial or what majority of most of both the majority of them are residential and those are the and they're the 5 8 meters which we are having the longest uh lead time to to receive because those are

[1:47:27] uh and this isn't this isn't an issue related just to the city of San Angelo this is all over the country and so we are seeing I mean we're seeing it across the country and so everybody wants 5 8 meters and we're all we're all clamoring for them and so we're uh again we're we're trying to get them as fast as we can but the majority of our residential you're correct and uh my next question is um do we know where they're located in in San Angelo where these shape meters are we are yes yes we're we're aware of those so yes because it's a shame that we have lost 167 thousand two hundred dollars up to date when water is such a precious commodity and there's no way of having this money back into the fund that we needed in to use so um I'm glad that we're I know that it is it's not our fault that these meters are not being replaced soon enough but it would be nice to know that as soon as we do get them we don't leave them in storage for a while that's they will be these dead meters will be prioritized as soon as we get these meters in that can be replaced these meters these dead meters will be prioritized to have be first on the list for replacement and I would also like to know do these do these residents are they aware that they were just being charged the basic minimum or do they not even know that they're right that their meter doesn't work I would I I can't speak for everyone but I know this is blessed right so I know that I know that there I know that a few of them are um are aware of it but again I'm not sure if all customers are aware of it I would think that when you're I would think if you haven't normally have an 80 or 100 water bill and it goes to 20 you would probably notice but again thank you Shane other questions for Shane yes ma'am yes Larry the question of rent properties yes sir at least in my mind if they've if they're they've had the meter turned off that they shouldn't have to pay for

[1:49:31] that first tier of water but if that meter is on then they're responsible for the at amount no matter whether the users or they don't the water is turned on is that correct will you have a basic fee so let's say it's eighty dollars a month every month for the 20 years you've owned that house but last year you watered your lawn and so your bill went up to two hundred dollars and then all of a sudden it went down to 25 dollars your assumption would be something's wrong with the meter I mean you and I have to know you have to know when you're not paying for water but I would I would think yeah when you start looking at an Str rental type situation where you know the proper the actual Property Owners it's in their name paying the bill every month and it whether they rent it or not depends on the amount of water usage that's a little different situation than a typical uh lease or rent or situation that actually is living in that property uh month after month and most of the time in that case the water meter is in the renter's name not the property owner's name and so we would base we would again work with whoever the renter of that house is to establish their base that they've been using and so and then estimate that charge based on their usage it's going to be hard to be a hundred percent I mean it it it will be hard to be 100 but we got to start somewhere and certainly every homeowner would have the opportunity to have a conversation with someone in our water department about so you're not it's not going to be without an opportunity to talk correct yes no they if they get the bill and they don't believe that they have you they're utilizing that much water or there's some some issue with that bill they come in with the in our customer

[1:51:33] service folks and sit down we'll work through all the numbers with them and then show them you know where we based our averages on and then again just work with those individuals to establish some some estimate that they believe would be correct and and us as well Larry does that answer your question yes ma'am thank you okay other questions comments um then may I have a motion so moved by Harry a second to buy Lucy oh sorry now you we've have a motion in a second so now you can come forward and make public comments or you're hard to see behind him uh my name is Jamal schumpert single member district two uh I actually was affected by this water meter situation in which I took about eight months arguing back and forth with the city water department about that very situation where my water meter failed it charged me up to 27 000 gallons and I'll use about three to five thousand gallons a mile so um this is steady for him we don't know when it fails and when we tell y'all if else y'all argue against us and that only as charges so I don't know how they could rectify this situation I mean rectify the situation to find out if uh water meters aren't working he said that you when you ask them a question uh he said that uh they do know where the water meters are that are working well in my case I sat there for about seven months being overcharged by the city with a non-working water meter so I I I like to beg to differ on that about whether whether y'all know whether they where they are or not I know for example when I've had um I've had the water department call me saying you're uh usage Brenda's way up your x amount of usage is up now you either can hire a plumber to come and check to see if you have a water leak and if you have that water leak repaired then they work with

[1:53:37] you to reduce your bill because you can prove up there was a water leak and a plumber came and they fixed it so it's not just simply sometimes a water meter it's a line break cetera so it gets a little more complicated but I think your comment is well received and we understand what you're saying yeah sorry it was a city main water line League that actually caused I think the problem for the water meter to go up to 25 000 and it wasn't a link on our side and I had to argue with the city for months over dad League we didn't find out the word of me was broken until after they fixed the leak what months well later comment thank you for sharing and we do every now and then there will be a malfunctioning meter where we do get readings that could be incorrect and then that's that's different than what we're talking about here we're talking about a a dead meter that is registering absolutely no flow um and so and which is which is different uh from the gentleman that was just here uh to where he he was his meter registered excessively more than what in his normal usage would be in most cases we do see that with leaks and things like that in those situations and so but again that's not what we're addressing here um this is just for dead meters that are is actually registering absolutely no flow this that's what we're talking about here okay further questions I just have one did you mention how many meters we have that are not that our dead meters are not registered uh currently right now dead meters that are not registering a little over 450 currently like a lot it's it's a substantial number and when we're seeing them again start to fail more rapidly as as they're getting getting age on them so I think the question in the back of all of our minds

[1:55:39] is why did it take get to 450 before we address the ordinance as a major issue and where were we last year and trying to identify this and and create change so it could be corrected we're we we're working on it uh and again have been working on this trying to get the program in place to get it going and getting again getting these ordered um we're again we're working trying to work with our vendors to get these meters in as soon as possible if we can take uh you know even if they get a partial shipment or things like that they're trying to send them to us and so we're hoping to get these in uh as soon as possible and it has been a struggle for us for for the last year or two on these meters uh in especially with all the new construction things like that making sure that we have enough meters for new construction as well as trying to weigh uh new construction versus a dead meter as to where that priority lies so it it's been it's been a challenge for us but we're moving forward we do have a large order working with our local vendor for them to also they've ordered stock supplies so hopefully if we do see in their in our replacement program we do see a meter or something go down a new meter going down and we're waiting for our next order big order that they'll have some available for us to purchase locally as well for the questions before it gets lost uh is can you work with that gentleman back there to see if we can come up a reasonable agreement between the city and him on his water usage such as it was yes sir I'll make sure that the issue has been resolved thank you Lucy you had your hand up first uh Shane I was just wanted to ask you quickly you mentioned that you have ordered these meters do we know when they're supposed to arrive or even uh the the 5 8 meter the other of course we've ordered multiple sizes and they're coming in any time from within the next 30 days uh all the way through but the the timeline for the 5 8 meters that

[1:57:41] they're estimating now is sometime in that October time frame for the questions comments then remind me do we have a motion on the floor we have a motion Lucy said and we've had public comment now so with that we'll take a vote Karen uh yay or nay approving approved absolutely thank you okay sorry Larry yes Lucy approve Harry yes Tom yes Tommy yes mayor Gunner yes motion passes 7-0 we will now move into closed session the oh I didn't know that so there's no closed session so we will do the follow-up and administrative issues are there any seeing none will go into app proving various board nominations we'll start with the Concho River water Master advisory committee Shane Kelton to an unexpired term ending January 2025. the design and historic review commission Donna crisp smd5 to an unexpired term ending September 2023 and the Planning Commission Michelle Miller smd6 to an unexpired term any January 2024 may I have a motion for approval a motion by Lucy a second second by Tommy any public comment on the items the various board nominations as just listed all right seeing none all in favor say aye aye all right people are approved 7-0 announcements of consideration of future agenda items let me just make one announcement that will be at our June 20th meeting and that is I have asked that the president CEO of reports to planes actually come and make a presentation to the full Council and it'll allow you an opportunity to ask

[1:59:42] questions or make comments so Lauren will be here for the January July June 20th meeting okay that'll be on the agenda may I have a motion for a German all those in favor aye all right it passes 7-0

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=hziXM89X7Zg