San Angelo City Council 6-2-15

[0:00:01] it is 9:03 time to get this show started we welcome everyone here today to our city council meeting we will begin with prayer this morning I'll ask Ron Landers to come forward and start us off in an invocation good morning sir stand as you able pray with me if you will please Lord God thank you for today for the privilege of life and being here uh such an important occasion a gathering of elected officials interested citizens with a lot that I know is on our hearts and I'm sure it's on yours as well and so we come to you asking for great wisdom for patience for just understanding as we look at issues that are uh before us I pray especially for the city Charter and the discussion on that pray for uh just the issues Lord even with rain we thank you that you are good in sending the rain but even that has created some difficulties for some and we pray for again just uh your presence here so that um under your lordship this group would know how to lead and how to direct us and so father we pray believing that you are going to do that we ask your blessings in the name of Jesus Christ Our Lord amen amen thank you sir Grandpa The Pledge this morning will be said by Miss Tagan s a seven-year-old a first grader at Fort cono Elementary and she and her granddaddy and I will attempt to do it let's look this way sweetheart aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all let's go to Texas Texas flag i al to the

[0:02:08] Texas God one and indivisible thank you so much yes let's get a picture here take let's get a picture with Grandpa yes thank you so very much Colonel pal would you step forward please siroun and this one this one is something that I love to read this is a proclamation honoring Colonel Charlie pal Colonel Charlie pal is truly a great leader and an outstanding individual Colonel Pal's leadership has touched many in the United States of America and S Angelo Colonel pal service includes aircraft Commander instructor pilot with 84th Air transport squadrons and Travis Air Force Base rescue crew Commander at ke ke kfic Air Force Base Air Force Commander instructor pilot with the 66th air refueling squadron at England Air Force Base and commander of the 348th Technical Training Wing goodfella Air Force Base St Angelo Chamber of Commerce Kil Valley United Way St Angelo Heart Association St Angelo country club downtown Rotary Club and the whales far go Bank Colonel Charles pal has been chosen to be the recipient of the Texas Southwest Council Boy Scouts of America Distinguished Citizen Award for his longtime leadership and contributions to his God his country his family his community and by living by the 12 points of the Scout Law trustworthy loyal helpful friendly courteous kind obedient cheerful Thrifty Brave clean and reverent the distinguished the distinguished citizens award will be presented to Colonel pal by Congressman Mike Conway of Midland now therefore I Dwayne moris mayor of the city of St Angelo Texas on behalf of the city council do I hereby Proclaim Thursday May 7 215 as Colonel Charles pal day thank you sir you want to make a spe

[0:04:19] a well thank you thank you Mr Mayor and thank you Council and thank you citizens of St Angelo Texas I want you to know that there's a high honor for a country boy that grew up in Southwest Arkansas and adopted s Angelo Texas in 1980 we have a caring City a Christian Community Cooperative and I think you are as grateful as I am for that place they call with the river Stan Angelo Texas thank you thank you k Jenny come forward and whoever else you want to bring with you good morning good morning how y'all this morning good hi on June 11th 2015 animal shelters and rescue groups Across the Nation will join together to give homeless animals a second chance at a happy life animal shelters Across the Nation are partnering with local rescue groups for special events that marked their animals to the public and ask their communities to help them empty the shelter in the best way possible whereas dogs cats and other Animal Companions are considered cherished members of our families and whereas the no kill move in the US has successfully implemented new and Innovative programs that provide alternatives to math e Asia and whereas life-saving changes will come about only if no kill programs are embraced and further developed and whereas June 11 is a national day of no kill across the country when hundreds of shelters and rescue groups will join forces to create the safest day for shelter animals in US history the city of s Angelo commends cono Valley Pauls and the S Angelo animal shelter for partnering in a truly collaborative spirit and effort to reduce the number of homeless animals

[0:06:21] euthanized in our community therefore I Dwayne Morrison mayor of the great city of St Angelo Texas on behalf of the city council do hereby Proclaim Tuesday June 11th 2155 as national no kill day thank you Jenny and you've got the microphone okay well thank you so much mayor Morrison and and I'm really grateful to the city of St Angelo for uh partnering with us for this event um June 11th is of course national no kill day but we will be having a celebration at our location in Sunset Mall on June 13th which is Saturday and we want to invite everyone to come out we're going to be showcasing shelter pets and we're just really privileged and honored to be working with the new staff and we're so very excited to be a part of rescue right now with all the positive changes so thank you guys so much thank you did you speak oh no okay well let's get a picture thank you'all so much thank you MK you bringing your entourage with you bring them all up good morning sir good hi good health is one of life's greatest blessings unfortunately many men take their health for granted we must encourage men to maintain and improve their health by taking simple manageable steps such as exercising and eating a balanced diet legislation creating National Men's Health week was signed into law in 1994 and this annual observance provides us with the opportunity to renew our efforts towards addressing this issue among the significant risk men face or high blood pressure high cholesterol diabetes and several types of cancer including prostate testicular lung and colon cancer as we prepare to celebrate Father's Day we encourage all Texas men to recognize the importance of seeking preventive timely and appropriate Medical Care let all of us both men and women remain mindful of the important role preventive Medical Care can have in

[0:08:24] our lives and the lives of our loved ones esparanza health and Dental Centers will be in our community to promote Men's Health throughout the entire month of June and will host the men's health fair on June 19th 215 therefore I Dwayne Morrison the mayor of the city of St Angelo on behalf of the city council do hereby proclaim the week of June 15 through June 21 215 as Men's Health Week in San Angelo Texas together we can make a difference Mike thank you sir make a speech all right you're L yes there's not much more that I can say than what the proclamation said uh that it really says it all there are some statistics I'd like to share with you actually just one that I think is really telling of today's uh uh our society today in 1920 in the United States uh women lived and average of one year longer than men did today in the United States men die five years before women do on average that says something about how men have yet to buy into the Health Care System 100% of the women will seek uh primary care for their annual exams far less than men do uh when you compare them side by side there there's no comparison so uh you know we talk about what is the the the weaker gender or the weaker sex whatever you want to call it um for every 115 males that are conceived only 100 women are conceived at the same time females so there who's the weakest I mean if you got to have more to just to survive so anyways thank you may and thank you Council appreciate it very much we have a gift for you yes go ahead talk about want to give you talk about okay so we have a blue ribbon we have a blue ribbon that we want to give all the

[0:10:25] men here today we want to start with our council members we want want to thank Lucy for coming out for National Women's Health week and we walked and we're going to be doing that again all over the city of St Angelo June 19th uh put on your Walkin shoes guys form a team there's no wrong way to do it um if you want to walk with us you can walk with us uh but we had 12 teams uh for women's and we want to double that for the men's we want to have 24 um and just walk 10 minutes 15 minutes something uh I used to watch Mike change your shoes and go for a walk around there and I thought what's he doing what's the boss doing back there in the back in the alley he'd go for a walk and so we started doing that um at all of our sites we've got noon Walkers and morning Walkers so we just want to encourage you that day is blue out day if you go to the website and I'm going to give you some information uh we blue in observation of national Men's Health week and we're we've got a gift to give you for that okay thank and I have an idea there will be no snacks am I right come here Mich we're going to take a picture oh yeah okay just are there going to be snacks yeah well uh it might be but barbecue at the end oranges and bananas and app Miss normally she's got the problem she's got it the proclamation we'll have Brian sorry let me give them to are you going to keep you g to give this to you want to give these to us no yeah all them men okay we'll put Brian to work that's what we pay let's take a picture yeah thank you thank y'all very much all right it is now time for us to take

[0:12:43] public comment let me read the legalities the council takes public comment on all items in the regular agenda public input on the regular agenda item will be taken at its appropriate discussion public input on an item not on the agenda or consent agenda may be identified and requested for consideration by the council at this time the council May request an item to be placed on a future agenda or on a consent agenda item to be moved to the regular agenda for public comment on public hearing items public input will received on each item immediately following the council discussion prior to any action on the item each member of the public should make the remarks from the podium and begin by stating their name remarks by each citizen will be limited to 3 to 5 minutes unless waigh by council member for all speaking on the matter no individual will be allowed to speak more than once on anyone's subject until every citizen wishing to comment has done so if you would form a line at the front and we will take your public comment good or bad Pro or con it's your time Amy you're first ma'am good morning my name is Amy Melle flint and I wanted to come and um give the council and the public an update on the dog park um about a little over a year ago uh one of my Girl Scouts who was working on her Gold Award at the time came came before you and uh talked about her dreams for dog park in St Angelo and the council unanimously voted to allow her to proceed and since then we've raised $45,000 and um we have a $155,000 pledge for for a total of $60,000 and the council had asked her to raise 75,000 so Megan the Girl Scout has since left for college so as promised I'm kind of helping progress our our desire for the dog park so we are so I'm trying to find the last $155,000 um I found a contest online by an organization called pet safe and they are giving away um five prizes one $100,000 prize and four $225,000 prizes

[0:14:49] um and what they're doing is they're having a voting contest so I'm asking the council and the citizens to please vote um online you can vote twice a day uh once at their website at um petsafe.net there's 300 cities listed and I've been looking at all of them and we're doing well we've got over I looked last night we had up over 200 and um I'm hoping with this big media push that I'm doing this week we'll we'll more than double that or triple that or whatever but uh we're hoping to become one of those top um 15 that they choose for finalists and then we'll have a five-day voting period for that and I really feel like there's enough support in St Angelo to have the votes um to get the dog park that we want and um even $25,000 um award would be great but the $100,000 would be even better so thank you all for your support and you can find more information at the S Angelo dog park site on Facebook ma'am thank you could you repeat those uh those sites again yes so that we one is the um it's petsafe.net safe's website or um sorry pet safe's Facebook page but you can find both of them on St Angelo at dog parks Facebook page pet safe pet safe all one word thank you thank you than you thank you Amy thank you Mr Mayor ' Amy had sent me an email last week and I forwarded it on to the city manager with reference to this to put out there and reminding that the council had been in full 100% support of this young lady and her efforts for a dog part I would like to ask uh Carl white and if the council put this on a future agenda we're down to $115,000 and I believe the city manager

[0:16:53] has a letter for all the council to sign that is nothing other than in support to send to that safe uh to try to assist Miss Megan and ask Carl to come back with possibly U the final 15,000 as to where he thinks it could come from and get the city to move forward on a location for the dog park is that okay that's okay thank you any further public comment Mr Anthony just piggybacking on uh something just said you can also find those links on the city's Facebook page city of St Angelo public information and on our website at cox. us calendar so uh we're trying to promote that as well because we're as eager as everyone else to have a dog park but I really stood up to talk about uh more upcoming town hall meetings that we're having and we're having great turnout and great dialogue at at each of these tonight uh on Tuesday June the 2nd we are having our uh fifth town hall meeting on the new Trash Services that will be launching on July 20th that meeting will be at 6:00 p.m. at paulan Baptist Church so we hope thatth whoever can make it will come out and learn more about our curbside recycling and the new trash bins and and all the other services and then we will also have another town hall meeting on the new Trash Services on Thursday June the 11th at St Mary's Catholic Church and that'll be in in councilman uh silv's District uh in addition to that this Thursday at 600 p.m. we're going to have a town hall meeting also at St Mary's uh Catholic Church on the city's efforts to mitigate the flooding problems along Avenue P so uh again we commend that to people who want to know more about that situation and last night we had uh our second uh town hall meeting on the charter Review Committee that was at Lincoln Middle School a very Lively debate was had uh there last night not a debate more of a discussion and a dialogue and we'll be having our third and final Charter review town hall meeting at 5:30 p.m. June the 16th at Southland Baptist

[0:18:57] Church so again you can find all of this information on the city's website cox. us/ calendar thank you Anthony further public comment this is your opportunity no further comment let's move on to the consent agenda uh there are how many items look like there are nine items on the consent agenda we'll start with you miss granstaff is there anything you want to pull from consent to Reg reg and are there and are are there any comments you wish to make uh only comments mayor um I think my next neighborhood chat is scheduled for June 22nd and I had spoken uh with the city manager to have Bob Solace and James Flores there uh dog days of summer so we'll discuss animal control and other issues related to Code Compliance I'm getting a lot of complaints from constituents about the appearance of the community not related terrain and and and weed growth but also um signs attached to uh utility poles and the like I think we're forgetting some of our our rules also the reoccurrence of uh garage sales as well so maybe uh Anthony can help us put out some information and remind the citizens what the the requirements are on those things thank you yes ma'am Miss Lucy well I was going to say something for one but Anthony already beat me he was told everybody about the service trash today so no sir that's it thank you man miss Jan I don't have anything from the consent agenda and I do want to make one statement with reference to my town hall meeting uh last week at South and Baptist I want to thank the staff they did an excellent job and the 138 39 people that showed up and asked lots of questions there were good questions good meeting good Town Hall good participation from the citizens and I do appreciate you thank you Johnny Yes

[0:21:02] mayor I have got got a couple of items Anthony already beat me to a couple of them or one of them the uh scheduled town hall meeting Thursday evening 6 pm I'll repeat it at St Mary's Catholic Church and we'll be talking about the Avenue P projects and what's coming down the line uh a lot of concerned citizens uh and I hope it's well attended I'm sure it will be and we're we're we'll be there to answer questions and and tell them what is next on our on our plate to try to move forward with the with the idea again 600 p.m St Mary's Catholic Church gymnasium a second one I think Elizabeth touched base on it I did get a call you know we put millions of dollars into the Kono River Bank stabilization and just renovation the whole thing and then and I talked to Shane the other day and I said hey there is there's a lot of weeds growing out there and the gentleman that contacted me also said we seem to have been taking care of it better before we renovated the whole thing and it's kind of you know and he wasn't being mean by any by any means but it it I've driven and I called you just yesterday when I was driving around along the river and it is it it looks pretty bad I think that if an idea was mentioned if we don't have the Manpower enough manpower to get it done why don't we reach out to some some of the local landscaping companies to you know and I think folks wouldn't wouldn't uh be upset for us using the the taxpayer money to get it the way it should be uh taken care of and and beautify it you know keep it better looking than it is today and the the third one I was a number of months ago when all these riots were going on around the Baltimore area in Philadelphia and I remember years and years ago uh there was a a shootout in even California and I was thinking the other day even after seeing this the Baltimore and Philadelphia of why in the world don't we ever you know we don't have an armored personnel

[0:23:05] carrier uh on on PD with P in the department so I wanted it to take the time to plant the seed to at least let us look at at at at maybe purchasing uh something like this for them I know there was a shooting a couple of months ago around the Bradford Elementary area and it it it got kind of kind of scary for them but I think the purchase the uh of one of these type Vehicles is a lot is is uh the life of a police officer is a lot uh worth more than the the the price of one of these so I today I just like to plant the seed for us to look at it and uh and bring it for a and a as a cons agenda item later on to see what i' I've did some research I think you're looking at anywhere between $250 $300,000 again again the life of a of a police officer versus the price of one of these is it's no you know it's apple and oranges so I just wanted to plant the seed and say hey let's let's at least look at uh buying one of these and see what we can do to better serve in our Police Department so just wanted to share that thank johnk you Marty mine's on a little louter note I wanted to piggy back on what uh Miss gr staff said grandbabies are great and and I do need more so I just wanted to I just wanted to plant the seed publicly and that's really all I I asked him how many more grandkids he had because we keep seeing them but they're beautiful good to have you she's adorable godney how can I follow that I don't I don't have anything you can't top that I'm not we're not ready for grandkids yet I'm not not well I do have one other thing yes ma'am I if uh Shane is out there listening or people Rebecca if you're out there listening I had noticed after my town hall meeting uh new construction continued use in St Angelo to build the enclosed trash areas and possibly if somebody could get with the builders in town about new construction because

[0:25:07] they're not going to fit the new trash containers and get that something done to stop that right away anything else before we move on to consent agenda consent agenda if not then I will accept the motion to approve the consent AG agenda a motion to accept as presented I do have a second from Miss farmer this will be items number one through item number nine do I have public comment on the consent agenda before we vote do I have any further Council comment before we vote all in favor of approving the consent please say I I I oppose Nay put a 70 on that one Mr Brian let's move on now to the public hearing and comment this will be item number 10 this is an update on RFP o114 for professional services for pay dat I'm sorry Mr Mayor it doesn't hurt to ask but maybe after this item can we with the consider of the council move I believe it was item number I lost it number 16 if we can move it to the front of the agenda if it all possible if not I I'll go with with the flow right I don't see Howard here is Howard here maybe after is here is Eric here were they going to be here they were going to be here let's hold off until we see if they show I was to Pavement data collection and pavement management most commonly known as Street condition study Mr Kelton all right thank you Council I just wanted to bring a quick update for you it's uh it's not not going to be a long process here let's be fairly quick this morning I just want to update on where we are let you know that it's it's not stagnant we are moving forward with it uh and we're going uh it's moving along quite well at this point so we're hopefully going to start picking up speed we've got the um we've got the field collection of the

[0:27:10] data where they drove around with the with the van and and drove every Street in the city uh that's been completed uh we've had the they've downloaded all their information into uh their software they've gone through it they've analyzed it um we'll show you the map here in just a second uh the preliminary map that they came up with and U got that done uh initial review of the results they came down last week we spent quite a bit of time with them uh here not only in the offices but also out on the streets looking at all their preliminary data uh what they've gathered what they've got on the maps uh didn't basically went through a a a lot of the streets that we that we looked at we we identified some that we had some questions on we did a field audit went out drove the street looked at the data uh at actually in hand while we were on the streets and uh to verify to make sure that what we're actually seeing on paper is what we actually believe to be true in the field so we've got that uh completed they have now gone back um into into their labs and they're sitting there they're drilling through the they're again drilling back through the data to make sure that they haven't missed anything we did catch one or two items where they had uh where they drove a road twice and so they doubled over the data so we saw some things like that uh that we identified and they're going back to clean that up and and drill that down um as we move forward uh when we get to the back we'll kind of show you the rest of the timeline moving forward as we come out of this uh this is just basically a a very small uh snapshot of of the data sheet that they have in the Excel spreadsheet um the PCI score payment condition index is basically what that is and they and they give you a a rating what 0 to 100 zero being the worst there could be and 100 being the best a brand new Street we built yesterday and um it takes um and just so you know they when they collect their data it takes 180 rows of information for them to create this uh pavement

[0:29:16] condition U score Index this this one there's a lot of data that goes into creating this score and so it's not just it's not whether it's rough or smooth it's not you know it's not those things there's a whole lot of information uh and certain things can drive the score down faster than other things as we move along you can see right here how they did the data they broke we just took Ashford Street uh Ashford Drive uh as an example here and this whole street right here you can see that they broke that down uh by block so it's not like Ashford Street as a whole it's each block of Ashford Ash Street has its own s it's its own sampling point so we know from block to block how how good that street is and we know that on all the streets throughout town now and so we can do it block by block instead of a whole long segment at one time so if there are areas that we really need to concentrate on whether that be um something as simple as a seal coat or if we actually need to reconstruct and seal coat we know that block by block now um you can see the preliminary map that we had this is um you know we just put this on here as a very screenshot but I think everybody's it's it's been on uh been in the news it's online and people can get on there and view it and again when I got this it was kind of like I was I was a little shocked to myself when the first time I pulled it up all the red and black showed up it was it was a little scary uh after we had we sat down with fug grow and we visited with them a little bit they said this result everywhere they go is really typical uh of every town that they go in said most of their Maps look like this you have really older segments of town really old streets mostly neighborhoods streets that are in this condition they said it's all over the United States it's not it's not just us we're not just here alone it's all over so when you when you look at this and you can tell you can tell the older parts of town versus the newer parts of town as as the colors uh and highlights and everything change a lot of these and we'll get into it here in just a second a lot of these

[0:31:18] what you're seeing on the red and black are on residential streets are some of them have some of them failed yes some of them have failed others is just really old pavement that needs to be Rec condition the rideability of it is still it's not a real rough street but it has maybe it's a lot of alligator cracking things like that where it's still fairly smooth the street has you know if we put uh a two core seal coat on it we can probably bring that street back and and it can service us for many more years to come and so just to look at it we have a few um and of course we have video for the entire for the entire city uh U forever Street segment and what we've done is we've looked at some of these um some of the failures that um that really cause and these are the these are the most extreme cases that we highlighted here we we we have them from one to you know zero to 100 as far as as severity goes as far as the different things that they were looking at but these things that we're highlighting here are what really drive down your PCI scores um alligator cracking is probably one of the things that that drives down the most and most of the time you associate alligator cracking with failed substructure with failed base and substructure is what you normally identify that with and again not all of that some of it especially on low volume residential streets we can address with just maintenance instead of having to need reconstruction but you can see the alligator cracking in the if I can get it there in this area right here highlighted in red you can see all of the it's just it's one solid crack and so that's that's alligated cracking and that that probably is the single most um highest weighted thing that can drive down your PCI score look at bleeding uh which this means this the asphalt in a SE coat process has bled through or we've had the rock that has uh the rock is actually going away so um shell off or whatever it's happened over the years

[0:33:20] and so we have bleeding and we have actually slick asphalt surface showing uh block cracking uh which is not as severe as alligator cracking but you can tell in this highlighted area where you have find the mouse you have longer CL uh longer wider cracks that are bigger in nature and size again that's something that does drive down this is North Bell Street on the other side of the loop from the river so looking at this one right here um again very old Street here here in the city Edge cracking um visiting with Harry earlier he was talking about Edge cracking on his street at his house another another thing that'll drive down your PCI score fairly rapidly uh and of course potholes uh we have plenty of those all over town this winter was pretty rough to us uh we got beat up pretty bad and you know lots of issues with potholes right now all right future bench benchmarks we have uh the upload the complete finalized upload into the the system as we move along they're expecting another four to five weeks that was last week so we're already a week down on it um and then from there and this is a progressive chain uh they will also be looking uh KSA Engineers as food grow partner here in the city uh they are going to be looking at assessments and we will be coming up with if there's any any further testing needing whether we you know if we need to go out and drill some cores do some things like that on certain areas that it might be uh it might be marginal on some of the streets for them to determine whether reconstruction is necessary or not we will they're also looking at they're going to be putting together traffic volumes uh our adts on our streets to look at them so they know you know when we're looking at arterials versus collectors versus residential so we can start prioritizing our streets based on need and based on severity of of the damage that we have on them uh and then

[0:35:24] after that after they get through with their uh upload uh the B draft budget we should see within another 3 to four weeks after that and we should have um we're hoping here in three we're hoping three months and we're pushing on them pretty hard within within three months we hope to have a final budget and Analysis and we also hope to have a final report in hand um for Council for staff and for everybody to see and that way and hopefully at that point it's a it's a complete work plan and you know we'll bring it back to y'all for y'all's approval and for y'all to approve and and give us direction to move forward with starting to tackle some of these larger issues at this point um you know we know the Bell streets and the and the Martin Luther King boulevards and the Southwest boulevards and those we know some of those are you know are going to be higher priorities but we won't you know come back we'll give yall the analysis and give y'all you know let y'all give us your blessing to move forward and and start tackling some of these projects as we move forward so uh this is also going to give us you know we're going to have a short and long-term uh Street maintenance plan based off this as well too they're going to help us identify uh not only you know we may be from our standpoint we may have been seal coating crack sealing and seal coating for years and years without looking maybe so at some other treatments well these guys they're experts and they do this all over all over the world not just the United States and so they they have a wealth of knowledge about other treatments that have worked in other areas uh for specific areas where we start looking at um maybe a residential street that has a lot of um a lot of alligator cracking but still has a smooth surface maybe there's another treatment that we can use besides seal coating and they're going to have those recommendations for us as we move forward as well too so that kind of wraps it up do you'all have any questions questions sure start with you um how often after we complete this this investigation how often do you think we need to go back to

[0:37:27] fug gr or another company that does this because I think we've done something similar or some evaluation previously but in order to keep uh you know a process that is apolitical as much as we can get it how often do you think we would have to do that like a 10 year cycle yeah we're they you know they suggest one a little bit sooner than that but I think we could probably get by with a tenure cuz we're actually uploading this into software that we're going to have inhouse and we're going to actually have something that we haven't done before is anytime that we actually do uh a process we're actually it's it's going to be a a living breathing thing at this point and so with the new software that this will be working on uh it will actually have uh we'll be able to keep up with the input and the data as we're doing it which will make things a whole lot easier and in 10 years when we go back with fug grow or another company like that it'll be a much less intense process because all of this data is already there and we're going to keep this data current as we move forward with everything we do from fixing a PO hole from our guys out in the field when they just fix a pothole to uh an actual full-blown patch or any millon overlays or any anything that we do to our to our system they will uh we're we're going to keep it updated so it'll be a lot less intensive process Point see some areas deteriorating more rapidly than others depending on what their problem is okay maybe more important when your department was created and separated from what was then Public Works water was separated from operations a big reason for that was to make sure that there was uh cooperation and two two heads watching over the coordination of infrastructure in the city and so how are we going to use this with regard to Street construction and also waterline replacement because in the end that's

[0:39:32] what we've all said we've wanted but I'm not sure how we've actually implemented a coordination strategy we've actually been talking about that with uh with Bill and Russell you know quite a bit here lately as we're moving forward and actually KSA uh part of their uh their charge in this is going to be to sit down with once they kind of get a a line item of the streets and kind of a priority list of the streets that are that are for reconstruction purposes they're going to part of their U charge is to sit down with Bill and Russell and go through the water and sewer utilities as well to Ure and even even in those streets where we do have Verizon and in Atmos and some of those other underground utilities to ensure that either the systems that are underground and in place right now are sufficient and won't need to be upgraded anytime soon or if they are deficient that's going to be a part of the consideration as as we move forward into the Reconstruction and the replacement cycle I think Daniel that that's as critical as anything we're doing whether it's as he said whether it's water lines or the other utilities the franchises because we I don't think we've taken good care of our streets even even what we had control over in some of those areas I think we you know I don't think the public understands about the the uh trench repair contract and I'm not sure that we're maybe as fast on that as we should be and it certainly um harms the Integrity of our streets so appreciate you watching that one of the worst things that could happen is that we go in there and we repair those streets have them in lik you condition and we go back a couple weeks later tear them up to replace a line right a water line that's just we've done we've wasted all of this if we if we allow that to continue absolutely and we do know that it has to be very well coordinated effort to make sure that those any lines that do need to be replaced will be replaced uh before we do that work we have to be responsible to tax money and do it the right way Charlotte are we during this uh pavement and budget analysis are we

[0:41:37] including uh the not Bridges but the cans that go that water flows the storm water so that we're not just laying something over something that's worthless in a can and drainage is the budget going to include the replacement of for proper dra drainage in a c any any any structure that's under the you know that we have that's that's associated with it whether it's a whether it's a can or box cobt or whatever if it if it needs to be replaced at that time that it will be a part it will be a part of the budget analysis yes questions John yes uh Shane I know that you mentioned uh video of this process I think next time uh if you can include a video of how that how it all operates you know that van that's driving I've never seen the van I don't even know what it looks like but I think the public the taxpayers would probably be interested in seeing how it works so maybe you get with Brian and he can videotape of well I hope and I hope next time I'm here that I have fugro standing here they're engineers and and everybody going through that and I will make sure that they bring a picture of their van and it operating and actually what they're looking at and what they're seeing when they're doing it I'd be curious to see what the what the data looks like when it ran drove over Bell Street to see what kind of uh you know information came out of that and and we'll be able to do that we we'll actually have the spreadsheet the information that that that computer generates does it look like a RoR scale that it it it it's just a bunch of numbers it's just zeros and ones going AC I mean and and twos it's just a bunch of numbers going across so it that would mean us looking at that data that that computer produces because they were showing me on their model when they brought it by city hall for me to look at to the to to the human eye just looking at it that's uneducated you don't have a clue what that means so but we do have we do have the the numbers that on the spreadsheet where they've actually um transferred that into real data that's measurable and actually means something to us and so I'll be

[0:43:40] able to and we'll have that spreadsheet and actually I I have it here and um it's huge if you I mean if you ever want to look at it I'll be more than happy to pull out any road segment and it so you can see out of those 180 Columns of information that they gathered uh what B Street looks like so all you have to do is holler at me and I'll be more than glad all the other streets what they look like all the other streets yes yeah there's lots of them so yes yeah cuz 180 rolls of data may look like Greek to us but yes I think uh I'd be curious to see how it that van operates and what it you what information white van it was a big white van had AR on the side of it so that was it so we uh we verified that we we approved the sil Co program last meeting yes sir we're not SE coating the street that's going to have to be replaced no sir corrected okay once we start the So based on this we're 10 15 weeks out if a street has to be replace and we approve it how long will the engineering take engineering can take 3 to six months right now we're currently working uh the Engineering Services Department is currently working on an RFQ to go out for engineering design services so we can actually start turning some of these uh projects faster uh because of our our in-house guys are are pretty well covered up right now uh with projects and it would take us a lot longer in house to do these designs and we you know and we understand council's urgency to get these streets back in condition so we're going to go out with this RFQ for these Design Services um for streets and actually actually any utilities that need to be done as well too and we expect that to be out on the streets anytime and we'll three to four weeks and we'll be bringing it back to council for y'all to to look at and and give us the authorization to negotiate a contract so and and we're taking utilities into consideration you said yes sir this in the RFQ process we will be taking all the utilities into consideration as well all right okay

[0:45:44] further Council questions public is there any questions from the public for Shane before we move on to the next item thank you Shane very good report thank you very much all right Johnny what asking while AG Go sir we pull I believe it I do see Howard and I saw the only other thing that we have is going to take some time is number 13 and that's probably going to take an hour or so the rest of the things on the agenda are primarily inhouse so uh does council would Council oppose to Bringing 16 forward and handling that it shouldn't take much time any problems on the left wing no sir right wing okay let's go ahead and bring 16 forward and deal with it while we have the egamers and Howard here consideration of approving matters related to lease of City owned Barty with Park property for a public Heritage Museum Carl good morning I need to find the presentation I found it if I could just if allow me some time to go through the presentation give you some background information and then uh I know there's some folks here that want to speak on behalf of the of the item the the property in question is some Bart dwit Park property this is Oak Street the conso river is down here to to the uh South this yellow line shows essentially where the property line is property to the South is part of Bart dwit Park property to the east is part of Bart dwit Park essentially the the property line follows this fence line you can see

[0:47:47] here and some of the effected Park property is also this slope here because the the the park properties was essentially raised about I guess about 8 ft feet so in August 1st 2005 the city entered into agreement with Mr Eric egar to create a historic agricultural Museum if I could I'd like to read briefly the general concept of the the lease because it spells out very well what the intent of the lease was the journal concept for the use of the property is as follows the intent of this lease is to increase the usable size of the property owned by lesie in order to operate an outdoor for real life turn of the last century historic agricultural Museum that's one of the key words museums the property will serve as a multi-use facility for the purpose of increasing tourism benefiting l e and bringing more events that's another key word events to the historic downtown area thereby benefiting the public that's another set of keywords benefiting the public Les he will bring in demonstrations that will have been typical of the Frontiersman life during the late 1800s and early 1900s events again the word events such as Barn raising log home construction farming ranching and Tradesman services will be demonstrated everything from blacksmithing wagon construction haymaking a Grist Mill operation steam tractors Drive engines and sheep shearing will be included the term of the lease was for 5 years so the lease did expire in August 2010 however there is a holdover clause allowing the lease to continue month to month terminable at will of lesser the city on October 25th 2013 the city sent Mr Egg a letter stating the det termination we requested termination since the general concept had not been met Mr ire appealed this termination requested hearing at The Parks and Recreation Advisory board at the meeting of the November 21st 2013 Advisory board meeting uh the city the board recommended the city

[0:49:52] resend the termination notice and give Mr eger 6 months to meet the terms of the original lease and report to the board by monthly so we res sended that notice and we set up a series of of meetings for Mr ire to give updates to the board reports occurred on the following meetings January April May June and October 2014 and February 2015 at the April 2014 meeting the board asked Mr eggar to achieve the following specific items related to uh getting meeting the general concept install permanent signage develop a interpretive sign for the museum have the grounds cleaned up and open as a public museum at the meeting on February 26 2015 Mr egire gave his final report the grounds had been cleaned up a vinyl banner sign had been added the gates were open and uh he reported that he's working with Mr Howard Taylor and the barrel Foundation um to move the the concept forward he was not able to show that any permanent signage had been added or that any events have been held as stated in the general concept at that meeting the board voted 4 to two to recommend termination of the lease termination of the existing lease this is um a concept of what the Heritage Museum would look like here are images from just a few days ago this is the back side of the property you can you can tell improvements have been made you can see the vinal sign back here just want to quickly show images of other agricultural Heritage museums around Texas this one in Bernie you see the signage you see the displays Lindell you see the word

[0:51:54] Museum a gift shop this one in lck again signage and displays now since the the board recommendation Mr ire has made additional improvements to the site most notably the awning on his uh building and uh the stack blocks were added to the back entrance let me show that again since the meeting these blocks have been added to to assist with the back entrance and this awning has been added to his property and again I don't mean to talk about his property his property is here we're talking about the lease with the city for the use of this property associated with the museum I would like to point out from the very beginning we've been supportive of this concept it's a wonderful idea Mr eger is a great idea person the only issue here is the lease the vehicle we use to get there to meet that concept has not worked another another point to point out is that in the lease it talks about consideration if any organization individual leases property from the city the city must get consideration whether that's rent or some public benefit uh whether it could be through tourism um which would be indirect Revenue in this case additional consideration for this lease shall be the operation of the property as an outdoor historical agricultural M museum with programs exhibits and events which can be accessed by the public this this consideration has not been met now where do we go from here and I'll I'll show this right quick and then you can hear other comments

[0:53:57] we do seek Direction how to approach this one possible approach is to renegotiate the existing lease adding more explicit terms so that we can achieve the general concept another another option is to terminate the existing lease and require the park property to be returned to pre-lease condition I don't support that recommendation uh I do support this recommendation or others similar to this terminate the existing lease don't require any ification of the park property for a length of time whatever that is 6 months or a year uh consider a proposal from a not nonprofit not for profit organization to lease the city's property to meet the general concept of the original lease so that we can have a public Heritage Museum at that side that would be my recommendation and if you have any questions I'll try to answer them if not I'm sure you want to hear from others how about go ahead and take public comment on this at this time and we'll get all the public comment and we'll be able to discuss is that a problem public comment Eric do you want to speak Howard good morning Eric if you would just give them to give them to Brian he will pass him out good morning everyone I'm Howard Taylor director of the St Angelo Museum of Fine Arts and chairman of the St Angelo Cultural District project with the permission of the EG Myers and with the consent of city council I'd like to uh address the concerns that have been presented uh I certainly understand the park board's uh desire to see this project completed I became aware of it about two years ago even though it's been going on for a while and uh I had to stop and have a conversation with the egam Myers because I wondered what was going on over there and uh became very excited about the potential that this

[0:55:59] holds for our community and our downtown uh it's been nearly a decade since the ERS signed the lease with the city to develop this property and it should be noted by the way that the entire area is probably less than about a third of an acre of the park land that's there uh the Investments that the eggars have made are truly astonishing U and I had to see the documentation on this but they've spent more than a quarter of aill milon doll at this site already that includes the landfill and building of a retaining wall construction of massive ramps uh uh access I think Eric pointed out the uh uh shed that's been built for demonstrations and things of that nature and then also uh the property that they own with the blacksmith shop significant improvements have been made there but the reality is that this project is still not completed and available to the public in the way that both the Parks Board and the eggy's desire uh I'd like to quickly explain why I think this project so exciting and uh why I think it needs to be seen through to completion uh first let me point out I probably don't really need to do this for you but the egamer family has had a significant history of contributions to the community their business has become a major attraction and in fact on a trip to Europe a couple years ago I read a magazine article about their store in Downtown St Angelo uh they've continued to make improvements to their store every year uh and they've done major things even in this past year uh on the street level uh and also I think the entire family is engaged in the business every day mother father and Eric working together and then also they're farmers and Eric and soft plants and harvest cotton and other crops in nearby wall and they've recently restored a historic church in the country and made it available for public use challenge there I think is that this is one of dozens of projects they've been working on and I think they're spread pretty thin uh when I

[0:58:02] read about or learned about this cono Valley Farm and Ranch Museum I became excited because it fits beautifully into a project uh that we've been working on quietly in the cultural district and the project it's too really too big to describe here but essentially we're working on trying to create a family heritage center when you look at San Angelo we have uh one of the most intact original Frontier forts in America even the depot uh is unique because not only has it been restored but the original fabric of that Depot was largely intact uh and then another uh historic Enterprise in our community Miss Hades the house of ill repute uh is virtually intact you wouldn't have to recreate these things U but it did seem to me it' be nice to show some other aspects of economic activity in our community uh we don't have any place where we come together and celebrate the total Heritage of our community and so we've been working with and talking to these various entities the fort the depot uh and also another almost magical place that some of you may know about it's called the Barrow museum near Eola and it's one of the most amazing places I've ever seen it's kind of like a small Smithsonian right here in Texas and I feel it's very much a part of our community and so we've been talking to them to converge all these interests to celebrate the broader Heritage of our community one of the things we have not really come to recognize is that s Angelo is one of the truly great uh agricultural capitals of the world uh we all know about our U Heritage with wool and with sheep and goats and also cotton and other things uh many Publications and other activities originate right here in St Angelo and so I think that this site and the concept that's there is brilliant but it hasn't happened yet uh one of the things that's important also is that that blacksmith shop which some of you know because it's been there as long as you've been alive and before that it's been there almost a 100 years

[1:00:05] which is amazing and it's virtually intact on the interior and all the equipment uh much of it original still operates and functions uh so it does present a great opportunity I think the real difficulty with this project has been that there are very few uh Concepts like it anywhere in the country that have been done entirely priv L and so we have proposed to create this nonprofit entity that Carl has suggested we've drafted bylaws you have a copy in front of you U looked at creating a board of directors and officially incorporating and working with Eric and there other advantages I think all the examples he showed of other agricultural museums were indeed run through a nonprofit entity and some of them in combination working with private entities um and so that's what we would like to suggest and I think that of the three suggestions that are up there I kind of lean towards incorporating the first one and the third one which is to renegotiate the lease with more explicit terms and measures uh which I think that would be very realistic do this by this time uh or at least if it can't be completed have some dialogue about why not but then bring in the nonprofit entity as a co-signature on this because there is private property involved that's a part of this and I think that the lease would have to spell out you know the appropriate ownership between the city the nonprofit entity and the egam family uh so anyhow that's our uh broad suggestion I uh think I have great enthusiasm for the potential this holds I can't think of a more ideal site you've got the existing blacksmith shop uh the extension of the property is not very much as you know you point out but without it it would be difficult to achieve that and I think it barely uh takes a tiny little bite out of the park land that's adjacent but I do believe in accountability and I think that by bringing in this uh uh private support

[1:02:09] uh and a nonprofit entity we can make this thing become reality with some measurable outcomes and that's my presentation okay Howard you're saying then that you would go with uh and if if a if we were to make a motion to accept this you're saying to renegotiate the lease with more explicit terms and to consider a proposal with the nonprofit organization to lease and operate the property yes and or at least be co-s signatures with the eger family on the lease yes very well all right any other public comment on this before we speak before we Carl there's one thing I have a question on sir and we've we've spoken about this before about the creation of an Old West Town the so the our enactors would have a spot to work I don't see that it' have to be on that little bit of an area but I suppose it's still on the BART to wit property I'd sure like to have a spot for our enactors to build their Old West Town I think you know this this is historic re relevance here that's where the soldiers crossed over and I would really love to see a an old town here so if there's something that needs to be considered in the motion to make sure that that happens if it's necessary what does that have to do with the lease well it does and I'm just saying I don't know how the lease is just in the yellow just in the yellow here we we think we're can achieve both okay there is space uh We've visited with uh Craig Kenny and he's he's kind of sketched out what how that could fit with the existing available space it can work okay I thought this lease covered all the way to the river so I see if it's just in the yellow there this is my my my concerns are are not important but eventually essentially that's the area I want for the old town right there there there's plenty space down here for the Old Town never mind Charlotte well and feel free Carl to correct me if my wrong if I'm wrong but

[1:04:11] my interpretation is is we've been working with the egam family for quite some time uh several years and my concern is the movement the pace and as to how fast it's getting done when I sit and look back at all of the improvements that have been done down on the river uh right right there across the street the museum and this all connects with our history it's not moving at a pace to keep up with the improvements of uh s Angelo's historic area I'm all for what the egamers have done their contribution it's great it's wonderful but what I'm seeing is they're involved in so many other entities and they are person trying to develop this themselves so it's not a full-time Adventure is what it appears if I'm wrong please tell me because I've not talked to anyone about this and that concerns me because the growth that we're seeing in St Angelo and our tourism and what we're bringing and this particular piece of land and this project is right in the heart of things and needs to move along so I share your concern Carl is to possibly to to terminate the lease and rewrite renegotiate with some deadlines because we've had deadlines we've had deadlines and if they're doing it individually in their spare time of time it's not keeping up with what we're trying to do to develop the historic area down there and cherish the historic area that's my comments on it then I have questions who are the uh board members and the president secretary treasur of this U uh contract of the the agreement yes it's it's just with Mr egar the city has leased the property with Mr eggar okay I'm looking at the uh cono Valley Farm and Ranch Heritage Center uh that board does not yet exist uh it doesn't exist no we have to

[1:06:14] incorporate it and basically what we're saying is that we wanted to create this organization it doesn't make sense to create it unless we have you know the agreement that we can go forward with that uh but we're envisioning a board and we've talked to a number of people I'm not sure I could mention all the names but we want it to be culturally diverse so it reflects the community people from the Agricultural and ranching uh business in our region uh and a board of about seven people uh and this would be the standard procedure like even before the museum was created we had to conceptually get agreement and years ago when the art museum was created we basically did a deal with the city uh and then with Community Development funds to develop the museum at the Fort and then the board structure was created after that uh I would serve on that board as both chairman of the uh uh Cultural District and also director of the art museum uh and then uh we've talked to a number of people who like I said are in this business but we haven't yet you know named that board of directors and then the bylaws that you're looking at are pretty standard for a type of corporation like this and we're suggesting a board of seven people and it spells out how they would meet and what the obligations are and so forth uh so we wouldn't want to really create that until we got approval to go ahead and negotiate a lease then we can move ahead with creating the actual incorporation of the uh group Mr Mayor I may I that concerns me um you know like I said right there in the Heart of the City least on city land um I would feel better if our attorney has gone over and looked and worked with you on this stuff and I I think we have to do that and see time frames uh that we need to meet are everything becomes null and void and any improvements it's just like out of the airport any Improvement stays with the city I I don't see that in the writing here and I think it

[1:08:16] should be Johnny yeah I was going to say to Charlotte I do share her concerns on the one hand on the other I do applaud Eric egg and and and Company whoever that may be I believe he's a oneman show and I believe he's done all this with his Blood Sweat and Tears and I applaud him for his efforts to accomplish what would he's trying been trying to accomplish sure he hadn't met deadlines and all but I too applaud you Howard for at least throwing him a Lifeline to help him cuz he can't do it alone we we realize that you know Carl realizes that you know the timeline is in there he hasn't hasn't accomplished what he said he was going to accomplish and I understand that I am all in favor of terminating the lease bringing you guys on board to help him out and and uh and finish out this idea and I I believe it's it even the pictures that I saw today it it looks amazing compared to what it did day one so all the the the land workor the fencing that was I guess donated by the city I don't know but I I really and passionate about his idea to finish it off and again with your help I know he can finish it I wish we' had pictures of the inside of the stable I I hear that it looks totally different than I than it did I saw it a couple months ago it looked kind of rough in there but if if it looks a lot better than it did then then I'm you know I applaud him also for that but again I you know I I guess I could make a motion right now to approve this item as presented uh with items a uh to to terminate the lease and and and item C to bring you guys on board and get with our attorney and sit down and hash out the the verbiage because like you're not you're not a a uh a group yet you're not a nonprofit organiz it hasn't been we haven't Incorporated right you haven't Incorporated so I believe that sitting down with our attorney getting

[1:10:17] with Eric and bringing it all together I believe we've it's a win-win you know and I like your idea we can bring that uh later on down the road there's nothing wrong with that but I believe uh it'd be bad for us to stop the progress of of this thing of this idea where as far as it's gotten so uh that that is my motion to we can go ahead and incorporate and put the board together very quickly because the people have already been asked and invited but I don't want to reveal their Nam specifically you know until uh that's agreed upon but it is culturally diverse and I think very acceptable to the community and also the art m museum is participating we have already put some money into this not a lot I mean I will remind you a qu million dollars out of private Pockets into something like this and it's a relatively small piece of land but the advantage of it because the eger Myers could do this without that piece of city land but it would be too constrained and squeezed into a tight little space and so I think that uh you know having the city participation will uh really help Propel this and uh uh but I understand your frustration cuz had the same thing and I know how stretch thin these guys are but since we've gotten on board and been helping them things have move pretty darn quick I mean I can't believe how much money they've dug out of their own pocket to make some improvements mayor I'm okay with uh the the timelines you know we've got to put timelines in there and so we we're all on the same page and move forward no problem what on this on the The Proposal that you put before us today on the setting up the committee and everything is there going to be somebody that's going to be from the egam Myers that are going to be on the board yes uh we figured uh a it will not be controlled by the egamer family it'll be diverse and so there'll be one representative of the egamer family that'll be participating and six other people including myself uh representing the Art Museum and the Cultural District and uh uh like I said different people of different backgrounds some who are in

[1:12:20] that area already who are in the agricultural business or in the ranching business and Myers are f with just having one represented represent well yeah we told them it had to be that way and so they agreed and I think one of the important things is that they have a great deal of personal property involved and so we want to be sure that in the lease it's understood which is owned by the city which is owned by the not for-profit Corporation and then which is owned by the uh egam Myers because for example the barrels Museum which is also a nonprofit entity is willing to lend uh equipment and things from that Museum and bring them into the City and uh they have pretty significant investment in that themselves you know they've restored things and those things have value and they could not really realistically loan that to a uh for-profit organization or a private entity that has to go to another nonprofit and I think that's one of the key things that really holds up something like this uh if anybody sets up and you can do it you can call a a museum that you own personally a museum but if you're going to borrow and do uh education programs and raise funding you have to have a nonprofit entity or you can't do those things I I would second what Johnny says I think that is the way to go but I think that we're early on on this I think that this Board needs to be set up before and our attorneys need to review these documents before we even vote on this I I don't think we should take a vote on this but I do think that we are heading in the right direction I think that this is what we do need to do and I think probably is a consensus on that but if we get our attorneys to go over this document make sure that the city is good with this the egamers it looks appears to be the egam Myers are good with this and you you would be good with this I think this is the right way to go come back in a few months yeah inor I would also like to speak may I would U like to ask Rick and Carl to me this ties with the heart of our city and our tourist attraction Our Heritage

[1:14:23] and our historic value I feel like that either Rick or Carl one should also serve on that board you know they're titled their capacity so that this Improvement ties in with the rest of the city's Improvement that we are doing I I just think it's crucial to uh It Blend and and go together I would like to see that Carl maybe maybe as ex official that's yes that's fine in our concept I think that's a good recomendation thank you Elizabeth um several months ago Eric and I spoke about this project and the the the impending termination and I told him then that my feeling was that he needed to put together a performance plan make his case and get get an extension because I think we all agree that the the vision of this is wonderful the work that has been done is significant it's just not within the parameters of a time frame and a lease that was established back in 2005 um I also believe that probably um uh Bobby and and Eric's mom have something to do with this the egam Myers are such busy people and they do such quality things that I think in the end this is going to to be the the very thing that again everybody had envisioned but I also believe that there has to be a public benefit established so Howard I like what you're proposing I think that you know in hindsight the city never should have embarked upon this with an individual not because of uh performance by the egam Myers but simply it's not the way to develop a museum the nonprofit I think is always the better vehicle uh they have their assets involved and and they need our land so I think what everyone has come up with is very good and I'm I'm like Charlotte I think that before we proceed we need to have the uh the nonprofit vehicle in place I think that's the appropriate way to do it it and I like

[1:16:26] everyone up here looks forward to seeing the opening of this the the full opening as it was conceived but one question that I have for Carl is in the original lease agreement um there was a requirement that this be Ada accessible and I'm still interested in seeing that happen and want to know if that's still a part of the plan it's still part of the existing lease and would be part of the a new lease okay I think that's very important so anyway thank you for everyone's work on this well with the direction we can come back in a certain amount of time two or 3 months I think we have consensus that this is a good project and that we can move on this with a with a marriage of the two proposals with the museum and the egam Myers I see a consensus that this is acceptable is anyone opposed to that going to have to remove the motion in a second I would you like to remove your motion John would you remove your second Rodney yeah I didn't second I mean I want to wait okay then then consensus is that we move forward with this bring us back something concrete so we can vote on and get everything established and sound like a wi to me thank you thank you very much thank you to Theo Myers yes it is 10:21 let's take about 15 minutes and we'll come back and Tack the rest of it it is 10:44 okay I do have a few requests here and I guess we're just going to handle them one at a time we are ready for for number 11 however there has been a request that we pull forward the uh the communication system that's number 12 there's been a request that we pull number 14 which is the tears board to next and there has been a request that we pull number 19 next uh I know we have Catalyst that's going to take an hour or so I know we have people waiting here for Catalyst I know we have people waiting here for the sexual orientated and number 19 and we also have them here for Tears so Council

[1:18:30] what's your decision do we follow our agenda as presented and let people wait or do we start pulling things out of order give me some direction if people are here in the audience I would like to take them uh before regular stuff yeah but we have people here for all of the items so which one in number in number of you just said it okay just leave it as it is okay and we also need to take care of number 11 just keep it as is I guess I think we'll just keep the agenda as is and work them as we get them everybody agree I think we need to consider doing that in the future because I'm not sure why we moved up the other one everybody in this room has an important activity and has other places to be so that's true so that everyone is respected and we're respectful of their time can we can we tell the public out there that maybe they can inform us or inform their council person ahead of time on Thursday or Friday and ask that those items be moved up at that time well I had been asked on that I had been asked on item number 16 yes and and Johnny had been asked as well so only if there's a flight to catch or some compelling reason otherwise everyone else would like to be somewhere else than sitting here all day long and Brian does take Brian does take that into consideration as as we're assembling the genda we we take a look at that and make sure that hopefully we can organize it in a manner where we get people in and out right away I think General consensus today though is that we follow the agenda as it is written from now on out so let's take number 11 second hearing consideration of adopting an ordinance annexing to the city San Angelo city limits of certain properties situated immediately west of s Angelo generally located on the northwest corner of Arden Road in FM Highway 2288 specifically described as approximately 44.82 one acres of land out of bsnf survey five abstract number 101 and abnm Survey three abstract number 24 Tom Green County Texas and said 44.8 21 acre track

[1:20:33] also being out of the certain 9179 acre track described and recorded at instrument number 70358 3 of public official public records of Tom Green County Texas and said 44.82 one acre track being more particularly described by meets and Bounds in Tom Green County Texas Miss gar you are on ma'am yes sir M good morning Mr Mayor City Council Rebecca G planning manager this is the fifth of five um annexation public hearings as required by the state of Texas for what we are calling the Arden Road annexation it is a little over 44 Acres located north of Arden Road and West of FM 2288 it is located in the etj it is located in the etj and if Annex will likely be put into single member district number six move to Pro approve as presented second we've dealt with this one before thank you do I have further comment from Council you know I don't love the configuration but I'm going to support it do I have comment from the public on this before we you don't like the flag I don't like the flag but I'm going to support it we do have a motion to approve this as accepted we do have a second all in favor please say I I oppose Nay put a 70 on it thank you Miss G good job Rebecca number 12 consider we would like all of them to move this quickly yes please number 12 is consideration of a resolution authorizing city manager to negotiate and execute a communication system agreement with daily and Wales communication Incorporated for purchase of a p25 phase 2 suoc cast system upgrade under the Harris Corporation hgac by contract RA a5- one5 in substantially the attached form not to exceed 5,733 69216 and any documents related there too Mr Hasty you have the floor sir thank you good morning my name is Bucky Hasty I am the network administrator for the city of St Angelo um I oversee some it functions of the city as well as the

[1:22:36] radio system um I wanted to talk about our current system real quick I just got a short presentation to show you just to kind of get youall up to date on what we're have and what we're moving towards um our current system serves the police department the fire department and the city and when I say City I mean animal control um water permits and the Fire Marshall um organizations like that uh we purchased this system in 2007 the radios are the radios and the accessories themselves the handhelds and the mobile devices which are in the cars um they're reaching the end of their service life which is usually around eight years um the current site is a multi-site system um I've talked about that before it basically means there's two independent radio sites and when radios um mobile radios travel across town they switch towers and there's a little 3 to 5c delay to where they lose connectivity it's more of an annoyance than anything but there is a little officer safety issue if they're on something on a chase and they key up and it switches towers that was kind of done as a a money- saving technique the when the when the uh original system was purchased um and that's what the radios roam between sides mean means it is also used as an edex protocol um um edex is a protocol just means basically the language that the radios speak to one another with it's a specific language that only only this vendor can talk so that's what we're trying to move away from with the new system the new system is going to be a p25 phase 2 protocol so the language is going to be an open language and it allows any brand of radio to hop onto our system as long as we allow it um it will also uh support phase one and phase two radios phase one is the older version of p25 that's just kind of in there just to let you know uh now during the migration process we're going to keep edex that language just to make the

[1:24:40] ease of transition so there's no downtime with the system um and also one of the most exciting things y'all might not find it exciting but I find it exciting is the moving to a simoc cast system which is basically the opposite of the multicast system simoc cast the radio is going to be online the entire time it's going to be on all three towers the whole time so there's that that roaming isn't going to happen it's going to be seamless when it goes from one Tower to the other there's not going to be a beep or a 5-second delay it's going to be on constantly U other benefits of this new system and upgrade is a third Tower s that we're adding on the north side of town it's going to increase coverage um INB building coverage specifically on the North side and probably in the central part of town as well but also it's going to extend us further out um north of the city limits I know they do ambulance Runs Out to the state school and they've they've complained of a coverage out there this is going to tackle that headon um with these type of Radio Systems they're no longer just radios and a and a repeater you have computers backing them up and computers are big part of the infrastructure uh right now we have about four computers in Iraq that are you know serving this system keeping the database of the users recording call activity with this new system we're going to a virtualized solution and what virtualized means is you put many servers on one box so we're going to have one high dollar High reliability box that's going to have four servers residing inside of one box that's what virtual virtualization means the radio uh how the dispatchers dis PCH calls is computer controlled now and they actually grab a mouse and they click when they want to key up or they can use their headset mic but basically it's a Windows XP computer that they use uh as you might may or may not know XP reached end of life a couple years ago it's dead in the water there's really not an opportunity for us just to

[1:26:43] upgrade these you have to get whole new systems but what what I want to stress here on these new on these new consoles is that their solid state meaning meaning there's no moving parts inside the new consoles there's no fans the hard drive is no longer a spindle type it's a solid state hard drive there's absolutely no moving parts and 90% of the time when a computer fails it's because of a mo you know a moving part a fan quits working or that fan is sucked in too much dust into your computer and it covers something that needs some heat load taken off of it that's that's a real important part of this new system um ALS of course we're going to get new handhelds as I said they're they're end of life they're getting kind of worn out we're getting new incar radios and desktop radios now um one of the really another thing that I really like about the new system is we're going to get this software called B on and basically it's going to be one of the servers that's going to reside on that virtualized server solution and it's going to allow us to install an application on a phone on an iPhone on an Android on a computer desktop that will allow somebody onto our radio system so if one of the Chiefs uh myself or anybody that we allow is outside of the city outside of the state even outside of the country as long as they have a data connection they'll be open they'll be able to fire up that app and basically do whatever I give them permission to do they can just listen or you know in the instance of the Chiefs they will have the ability to key up on any channel and talk to their people even when they're out of the state that's something that we've never had before and which I know they want and they're really going to utilize and that's also going to allow us um we we reduced we reduced the amount of radios that we purchased with this system too A lot of the people um in the city have a radio sitting on their desk taking up space and they dispatch the animal control guys they dispatch permits guys Code Compliance um I'm going to be able to install an application on their computer to where they can just Dispatch

[1:28:45] they you know instead of having to roll away from the computer and go over to the radio they'll just open up that application and be able to dispatch straight from their computer uh one of the big Parts uh that's been brought up quite a bit with us recently is interoperability which means talking with other agencies oops I switch um the main thing I want to stress here is right now we have the ability to talk to whoever we want when we want we we're going to keep all the current abilities and right now our preferred method of talking to these other agencies is through the patch system which y'all heard me talk about before now that being said we're adding um three components that is going to help us out quite a bit you already heard me talk about p25 uh we're adding an interop Gateway which is basically just a piece of Hardware that's going to allow us to plug anything into it a a radio a whole new system a data connection to a a remote system that's going to let us communicate with any other agency that we want to talk to now um we had we held several meetings with Tom Green County and a representative who was representing the volunteer fire departments and and other surrounding agencies and what they wanted to do they requested that we get a VHF repeater that is dedicated uh a dedicated way for anybody to talk to us it'll be a single repeater on one of our towers and it will be a One-Stop shop for coming in to our system instead of instead of the way we like to do it which is create a patch and just become a customer or a user on their system this is going to allow them to become a customer on our system now now um we are going to uh the the company that is giving or selling us this radio system has uh decided to go ahead and throw this in at no additional charge so we are going to do the repeater and we we feel this will satisfy any concerns that those agencies have that's what they recommended that's what we're going to do mayor can I ask him a question yes ma'am so on this repeater and and I appreciate you adding this Bucky because

[1:30:49] you and I were in a a meeting with uh the other officials will some somebody be monitoring this repeater because if it's not monitored it really serves no function is that right in my opinion yes it it doesn't serve a function if nobody's going to monitor it okay so who would who would be how would we determine then um mayor Daniel how that how that works that's really more of a policy issue here within the city okay well if I could mayor uh that's a good question council member gr staff U my understanding is that there are Staffing issues that go with being able to dedicate time to monitor that that channel and but if we're going to do this and we're going to have a better system we're upgrading I I want to hear about this I want to cover the Staffing too because this piece of equipment if everybody agrees that it's kind of the missing piece in the prior proposal it has to be monitored or or we don't need to be talking about it well I think a couple of things first of all uh I think we would want to get the uh Public Safety Communications Folks up here to help us with that Staffing discussion and the other thing is I don't think everybody necessarily agrees that there is a missing piece or that this is a missing piece so this is an accommodation I think uh that this vendor and our staff have developed but in his presentation he says this will satisfy any concerns other agencies have regarding interoperability with the city of St Angelo welcome Chief it satisfies their concerns not not our concerns right but uh since PSC is under under me I I'll go and address the the staffing issues the the whole purpose that that we stayed with the patch system that we've had that seems to work for us and keeps everybody happy is because we don't monitor we don't have staff to monitor uh a a specific Channel which we'll call you know it's Texas law to is what we're going to call it but it we used to have inner city and even when we had inner city we didn't have uh anybody monitoring that that was back when I was

[1:32:52] a dispatcher so uh basically it is we're we're doing this to satisfy everybody's question but the reason that we had the patch was so we would know someone was actually there so if if we uh somebody requested this channel they would call dispatch and say I need you to patch me through to so then our dispatchers would know we're doing a patch we would monitor that channel for that time being that the patch is being used now we won't be doing that so they're still going to have to call dispatch and say I need somebody to go here the only difference is we're not going to spend the extra 3 seconds doing the patch it's just going to be there that answer your question and as far as Staffing monitoring okay yeah I can't I can't increase the Staffing any more than what we we're approved 25 people so it's a council issue well no let me we've got 13 dispatchers right now uh we can't keep dispatchers we can't hire dispatchers and so we've got uh you know what is that 12 12 vacancies and even then if we were fully staffed I don't know if I would be able to assign someone to monitor a channel that nobody's ever going to use unless there's a critical incident which at that time we'll be monitoring the channel it's been a political nightmare just to say the least I know we're all living it with you y but I think it's fair to say that Staffing is a concern of yours absolutely okay Charlotte Chief you just said you had 12 agencies and at officer Hasty's last presentation he said 14 agencies no vacancies oh vacancies I'm sorry my mistake but I wanted to ask about the 14 agencies police um enforcement type agencies that we have here in the area I am real curious to know if this system is going to operate with all 14 of those agencies that's what you had alluded to before but in conversations I don't make that it is can you the current one does as

[1:34:57] well it with with the patch system the current one does with the additional parts that we're adding the p25 and the inter op Gateway it's going to facilitate that to where it's a little bit easier to do so but the current one does that we have with the patch system and with adding this VHF repeater it's just going to you know just one more way we're we're adding ways to communicate with these agencies as per their request okay where is the proposed Tower site the third Tower site where do you propose putting that uh north side of town uh really to the northeast of the Coliseum and a vacant it's a lot that the city owns um that's utilized by uh the Rodeo Association they Park their trailers there every now and then and we're going to kind of tuck it away in the corner we've already got permission we've spoken with them and they're okay with it okay and the tower site Construction in the tower is in this bid amount no ma'am oh how much is that it's that's on my last page oh okay uh what is the dollar trade in You' mentioned that there was a trade in for existing system what amount is that it is approximately $1.45 million and that's included already in the price 1.45 million yes sir so it lowers is 5.7 price does it go down no 5.7 is the price that already includes the discount oh but 5.7 doesn't include the additional 200,000 let's see cost the additional cost for the purchase and construction of the new tower site so you're estimating that that's going to be approximately 200,000 yes ma'am and we were we were funded through this it was funds were approved on January 7th for 6 million and that was the number that I thought I could get this done with and I'm I'm nailing it

[1:37:01] it's turning out to be a good good number so we're getting a $7.5 million system for 6 million basically but we're you know we're selling our old stuff too we don't need any is that your presentation but uh I'd like to talk a little bit about the vendor um they're here with us today they're an authorized ha dealer based in San Antonio Texas their name's daan Wales Communications Incorporated we've been working with them since 2007 and these model of radios that we've used have just been fantastic the the police chief and the fire chief will both say these this is the brand we want this this radios have just been a great asset to the city low failure weight we've had 100% uptime on the radio system um since since it was installed and it's never gone down uh similar systems have been sold in the area to love Midland Lee County Hobs New Mexico Montgomery County and some of the bigger cities as well uh San Antonio has this system LA county and City and Fort Hood also also have this system that we're installing so there's some big cities that and uh there's other big cities that haven't officially um they're going through what I'm going through right now trying to get the contract approved but they they're they're this is a good system and big cities this this is top of line stuff this is really good good stuff and um we went over the pricing and um as I said $200,000 is going to add not just a tower but there's also going to be a shelter that has a generator you know for the backup power air conditioner electrical and I'm looking about $200,000 for that and that's that's pretty firm price right now I have I'm just waiting for a waiting for approval final approval on where I can put the tower buy Best in Chief done a while ago Chief uh I know you're sitting back there would you like to come up here and kind of talk about the system as well uh just get your Impressions on that and just get your input really as Bucky said uh we've been operating under this since 2007 and I can assure you the fireman will let you know if there's a radio

[1:39:03] issue in the buildings we have virtually had no radio issues since we went to this system before we had constant uh handheld failure um just skip from the previous system which is where you have kind of blackout stuff we've had no problems with this system radios have worked fantastic uh Bucky was talking he didn't mention something a little bit about that repeater that they're going to put up that is not the best solution for that that severely limits the range when you do that the the better system which will use utilize all three towers is using that patch if they choose to put that repeater on there it will be a very limited area that that thing will function in so I mean it it was done to because they wanted a static Channel but that is not the best way to do it as he said I'm not going to have my Personnel flipping back and forth between channels when a dispatcher can go volunteer fire one wants to talk to fire on channel Fire 2 and they can go punch punch and connect those two channels and no one has to switch a channel especially when they're in the middle of an operation or PD if they're in a car chase you don't want a officer sitting over there running 80 M hour reaching down flipping in His Radio channel when the dispatch can connect the Sheriff's Office to channel 3 or whatever Channel they have to be operating on that is a that is a very much a safety issue in in that aspect so Chief done I I I'm relying on you and chief Fus to tell me that this system is the best safety for the man in the field I want to know that our officers in the field if they need help officer needs help that they can dispatch call out wherever that this is the better system for that this is and it has been since 2007 uh we operate under an 800 megahertz system which for an urban environment such as what police and we operate in that they penetrate the buildings better and get the signals

[1:41:05] inside buildings now what the Sheriff's Office and DPS operate under is a 150 megahertz system which has more range but it doesn't get into the tighter areas it's great for the patrol cars running down the highway it's not very it's not the best system for what we use inside this Urban environment what what did we operate prior to 2007 were we still we were on 800 since 94 with ef Johnson I believe trunking system prior to that it was 150 it's when they started uh breaking the spectrums up in the mid 90s Rodney you had a question what's the lifespan question basically the same as the other one the on the mobiles and Portables around eight years and on the infrastructure 10 to 12 years so $750,000 a year radios Johnny Bucky are you getting any feedback from Los Angeles or San Antonio or just any other cities that have used it any any kinks in the system any we go to a lot of um daily Welles make sure that they keep us involved with the users groups we went to Harris users group about a month ago uh Sergeant Carpenter and Lieutenant bird and oh there was fire representatives there too some of the assistant Chiefs and we we talk to hundreds of people that have Harris radios and have this system and you know all of them had had nothing but positive things to say about it Harris is real supportive of their system they they treat their customers nice and not only that daily whales is one of the most supportive organizations that I've ever worked with they've they've helped me out in tight spots they've sent they'll have a technician here in two and a half hours if I've got a you know just a minor problem they'll they'll have somebody here they've they've been a real support supportive organization a but from a hardware standpoint the people that I've talked to Love Harris radios and preach them to everybody you know I'm a support of something that gets us out of the Dark Ages and if this is compatible to all the other agencies involved in this would this mayor are

[1:43:09] you looking for a motion because we can move forward if this uh includes the the purchase and construction of the tower I mean the whole thing additional I'm going to have to come back with the tower I I don't have the okay so we're just doing just the radio yes this this will get us started the tower is not slated to break ground now move for approval of this item uh authorizing city manager to negotiate and execute you know communication system with da and Wells Communications and just just to stated I I'll make a motion to approve it as is as presented I'll second that okay do I have further comment from Council I have a question for uh chief vquez you know we're all trying to do the best thing and we hear a lot of information from the other agencies and I you know what little I understand I can understand the 800 megahertz versus 150 it's really a different application if you will what what what they're going to use most what y'all are going to use most can you explain to me pick another city Dallas Austin Houston Fort Worth any of them can you tell us how that those agencies would be what frequency they would be working on versus what their Police Department in a more urban denser environment fire departments how they would how they would look almost all municipality municipalities are on 800 mehz I mean that's what everybody's using that uh you know again it's it's the the sheriff's departments and the DPS ones that are on the highway they're using 150 but uh most cities are using exactly what we're using abling has a system that we're using uh there with Harris or daily Wells and and how do they handle the interoperability issue between these two distinct frequencies a patch okay explain the patch uh Bucky no we want you to do it I can do it I I can do it basically I don't Bucky can I mean I'll do it I mean I'll do L's he's a SM he's a smart guy the patch basically

[1:45:14] means is we're allowed to we can communicate with any other agency with any type of radio we can do that now with our current system there's been a lot of information talking about our current system that's not factual we can do that but we do it with a patch basically you contact dispatch you say I need to speak to uh DPS okay have them meet us on this channel we patch DPS still the dispatcher has to call the other dispatcher at DPS and tell them have that unit go to this Channel and we communicate via on the on the radio and um you know that's pretty much it in a nutshell that's what a patch is it's human communication that's what it is you know so you know I made a joke the other day I said now all we're going to do is we're going to have you know the the police officer in the street is going to call the sheriff's deputy on their cell phone and say meet me on this channel so we can talk and they're going to go to the channel and talk I mean basically it's just going to be an open Channel all the time instead of us doing the patch which to me is a safety issue I I like the fact that that the officers or deputies or whoever's going to go to this uh Texas law to has to has to have the patch because a dis knows that this officer is leaving their primary Channel and going to this Channel That's not monitored but it's also a Time issue if you're having to communicate twice for them to get on the same line that takes time sure but the patches you know one two three patch done uh but there're they're still going to have to do that communication with the dispatchers because nobody's monitoring this Channel and this channel uh you know fir will tell you Brian will tell you that they don't scan their channels because there's too much radio traffic going on and there's a lot of radio traffic going on and so if you were to scan that Channel or to to to have that channel in your scan you're still scanning everything else as well and it's just it's just Troublesome but you know this this is our way to uh to accommodate the desires of the other agencies or groups and if they want that channel it's not a

[1:47:18] problem for us any other questions public yes sir I just got now we negotiated the price with them it was it's uh been bid through the HGC by contract it's a purchasing Co-op the state I believe the state negotiates those prices for us okay right public comment on this item before we vote Houston gavon area Council they C Houston gavon uh Houston galison area Council Council of government Council of governments and this was budgeted so motion has been made that we approve this as as as listed or is written has been seconded all in favor please say I I oppose Nay Nay put a 61 on that one we are now to number 13 which is discussion consideration and possible action related to proposals from Catalyst Urban Development City staff regarding a recommendation of the DDC board to adopt incentive policy framework as proposed by Catalyst Urban Development in City staff B funding for incentive policy program is recommended by DDC board and is proposed by Catalyst Urban Development City staff presentation by Services director Patrick Howard and AJ fa you are own ma'am thank you mayor so mayor council today you'll hear both from myself and Mr Howard and Mr Weiss will also weigh in we want to keep things moving as quickly as possible a lot of this information will be familiar to you if you recall your lunch meeting that you had recently with the Downtown Development Corporation there was some discussion at that time of an incentive policy trying to draft a framework for such and so today we are bringing you some additional information asking for some action and also asking for some important direction from you at the end of the presentation we'll go ahead and present items A and B together if that's permissible to keep us moving a little more quickly uh very quickly we do want to just start with a little bit of

[1:49:21] background we have been discussing the notion of catalytic activity in the Downtown Development district for quite some time now um we've talked about the importance of that for the district bringing in Andra attracting attention and uh bringing in development that is consistent with the types of development which Catalyst Urban Development has determined based on their market research um is is certainly viable in that area so first we just want to remind you about the importance of looking at catalytic activity in thisa area uh again we're trying to attract and leverage some substantial investment in this area we've had some discussion with you all about some of the previous efforts to bring in some activity which have been smaller uh loans smaller grants uh through our tear board as well as some other functions and sources what we're looking at today and what we'd like to talk to you about is looking at incentives that are much more substantial in nature and getting your advice and guidance on how we can go about bringing those things into action so looking at the opportunity to bring catalytic activity into the Downtown Development district is obviously important because it will bring some uh new Ripple effects to downtown as Mr Rutherford talks about in the document that was in your background report he specifically mentions the opportunity to both Advance the city plans and Visions for this area while starting with a larger project that then brings other people to the table creating a center of activity that um will produce dividends for the city specifically as we're looking at property values and the generation of taxes in that area so we'll go very quickly through that slide uh again there are several sources of support that's been demonstrated by members of this Council and previous councils recognizing that Catalyst projects are of course important for us to pursue and to put some support behind uh starting of course with our comprehensive plan which is still currently on the books adopted as far back as 2009 so we've been talking about this notion for a very long time that

[1:51:25] plan specifically talks about the importance of bringing Catalyst Investments to Target Financial gaps on key projects and the financial gaps we'll talk about here in just a moment uh the comprehensive plan goes on to talk about the benefit of catalyst Concepts both in the combination of jobs and housing commercial activity that's generated as well as also bringing a sense of place and some pedestrian activity to the area and that plan actually identified eight different Key C Concepts that theme has been consistent carried forward to 2012 where cadc funded a strategic plan which specifically in its implementation chapter calls for creating a proactive incentive program for public private partnership to again bring catalysts to downtown area and again in 2013 the Downtown Development commission as well as this group approved and adopted the downtown Master development strategic plan which identified those three areas I mentioned at the top of the presentation specifically residential restaurant and workplace infill for the area the realities of developing in the city center has been a hot topic of conversation with this group The Downtown Development Corporation um the tax andc reinvestment Zone and some other groups as well as internally the realities of developing in this area that we have to acknowledge and identify ways to help leverage funding for to bring those projects in include not only the Aging infrastructure in the area uh there are some considerations that need to be recognized as far as the downtown area being built out the existing building siding and the layout of the area is a challenge in some circumstances and would need some participation from the city perhaps the nature of the historic fabric that we have trying to maintain that and to encourage infill of existing buildings is an important consideration we also have to face the limitations that there are for parking and uh we've talked about that in the past with this group as well as the financing to achieve this so in short the reality that we're

[1:53:27] asking you to recognize is that in order for these developers to leverage or borrow the funding needed for the projects they must be able to justify to their lenders that there will be a return on investment and that guarantee is not possible on their part if there is a financial gap that exists how do we address the financial gap we've touched the surface on that talking about a variety of different incentive proposals that we could utilize and U Mr Howard is going to come up and talk to you about some of the different tools in the toolbox so to speak that we're asking you to endorse today and we'll talk about at the end of the presentation the specific um items for direction that we need you to uh give us some additional guidance on today good morning as AJ alluded to um Downtown Development is challenging this is not just domain to to San Angelo downtown uh many cities across the country experience challenges as it relates to Downtown Development and revitalization so as the plan talks about um there are techniques that are included within the framework that we believe will get us there in terms of seeing revitalization actually occur and so what I'd like to share with you briefly is just two scenarios one of which uh talks about adaptive reuse with an existing building and how um typically you like experience a gap with respect to Adaptive reuse and additionally uh the same will hold true for uh new construction as well so the bottom line is um the takeaway is that there will be a gap and and uh so what I'd like to do is just briefly sort of run through this with you um um the the illustration talks about a 33q foot building of course there are costs there are costs that are associated with with the purchase of a building and then there's obvious the the improvements that need to be made so when you think about those things um Additionally you will look at the revenues that may be

[1:55:30] created as a result of how much you could lease the space for or what the space would be worth and then you would uh look at what reasonably you could uh need need or would have as it relates to uh a suitable return on investment for for uh there's an industry standard as it relates to borrowing money and so there is an expect type uh return of investment and we're using here 8.5% so what you see there is a supportable acquisition price of 339,000 and the illustration would suggest that would be what you would consider as it relates to um what would be reasonable in terms of cost to uh for such a development so the bottom line is the gap would be the difference between the sales price of the building and the supportable acquisition cost so this is just example of what we we would be experiencing or have experienced obviously looking at adaptive reuse something that we want to encourage in the downtown and the bottom line is there will be a gap and that would be something that would have to be determined but certainly this is what we've experienced and others experienced all around the country the second scenario just uh relates to new construction actually there's no acquisition costs involved but there are certainly other costs related to um the construction of a new building um there are land acquisition costs development costs and then you look at the revenues related to leasing of the space cost for operation and the return which is again what the industry standard would suggest would be uh reasonable or expected when you're talking about borrowing money to do new construction so in this case the Gap would be more refined or defined as uh somewhere around 600 73,000 um and so in each scenario whether you're talking about new construction or uh infill or adaptive reuse there will be generally a gap and

[1:57:33] that's what many have experienced so what the framework talks about is using some of the existing tools that we've been using um uh already to look at downtown revitalization the first of which being tax increment financing so we've used it as you can see here in a number of ways uh to encourage revitalization and Redevelopment one of the things that we found out though over the past year or so is that we may need to be we we've we need to be too less uh prescriptive as it relates to how those funds are expended and allow development activity to occur with uh potential developers making us aware of what those uh needs are and we allowing their their creative you know having the creative ability to address those as needed so we would want to recommend modifying our policies to be less restrictive and I think um many would the ter board would agree as we've been um working through that uh this past fiscal year the other thing that we would suggest is that there are many creative uses for tax increment financing and we need to explore many of those as we probably just scratch the surface as it relates to the use of tax increment financ so we talked about tax abatement U being one of the tools uh looking at last land cost maybe the potential of uh land assembly or uh conveying land um is as a potential um looking at developing a robust industrial development program um uh looking at the funds uh that are through the halfon sales tax that are allocated to Costa DC um which is under the chapter 4B we are suggesting that we consider the potential of a chapter 4A as well in addition to looking at other tools like New Market tax credits low low-income

[1:59:35] housing tax credits historic rehab credits um HUD has mortgage insurance programs the there are Eda grants that are available as well and so the framework that is before you for consideration includes all those um tools so now I'm GNA let uh Mr wise come and talk to you about what is asked of you today in your background information you'll you'll notice a lot of those those tools we go so there's a whole list of options that hopefully youve had some time to look at and we can go over those individually but what we're looking for today is specifically guidance on those areas are those um specific areas that you would like uh to utilize if not if there are ones in there for instance let's say it's land assembly or whatever it may be that those are things we we don't really want to offer as as tools as we try to bring in development uh then we need to take those off so that when we end the process with this Phase 2 we have a clear definition of what is what those items are that we want to try to utilize to incentivize um secondly aside from that which is huge today we definitely need an answer on there's a lot of other questions um that we need to think about whether they're answered today specifically or not and and those pertain to any edits to the document as you know um it has gone before the the DDC who has reviewed the document and and endorsed the document itself as a plan uh so we want to know if there are any other edits you see that we need to make as final uh secondly um one of the Notions that was brought forward is is the council interested in doing uh any use of additional funding we've talked about these type of tools as incentives but we've also talked about the idea of of cash as an issue to address some of

[2:01:40] these things so is that a notion you want to entertain um if so what type of level would we look at and and what are the sources you would like us to look at for that um we talked about the acquisition of Key Properties is that something that we're interested in doing or not um we also need to look at the collaboration between the various entities and I'm assuming that's something You' want staff to work on we have a variety of of boards working on things we have of course Downtown St Angelo doing the work they do we have the DDC the Downtown Development commission um we have the tear board who are working on grants from facades to larger things now and now this under the DDC as far as the master development portion itself and then we also need to talk about as all of those things come together one thing you'll notice in this study is that it's recommended that we actually have one Central source for all of that to come through so we make sure we're we're all working on the same page all the boards are working in unison so we really need to look at the development of Staff position for that all of the plans are great but if we don't have the staff to administer it for instance we were talking about the ti grants recently and those are wonderful we've got larger projects potentially but now you've got to monitor those those grants to make sure what is being done what the grant was uh given for is actually happening so it doesn't just happen the same thing goes along with with this master development plan as we get projects that come in it takes a position to actually to work on that and make sure that we're moving forward as we said so that's sort of the framework for discussion and we're here to answer questions um and and get direction and hopefully some action today where are we going to start who wants to start it and you may want to start with that you know the the list of of things in your background as far as what we're potentially using as the tools I think the DDC of course has endorsed those

[2:03:43] but do we want public comment first or we want to discuss first that was that's a good I was ask going to ask uh Rick I want to start with the last item um organizationally the designation and creation of a staff position what would you need where are you going to get it and how long would it take you know uh I may have to discuss that a little with Daniel we haven't you know it's it's budget time is coming up so this is a good time to be discussing that my point would be is that if if this is a priority and we indeed are serious about moving forward with development within downtown and trying to push that forward uh then we'll have to look at where we can get that from and uh you know as far as how long it's needed Miss grinstaff might be good at answering some of those too because she's worked through a little bit of that in abene as they went through some Downtown Development uh but I think that is a position that would be there for a while well what level of expertise I guess is that's what I'm asking would you be looking for to to draw from to fill that position you know I I'm a big fan of I mean I I don't want to you know price this out of a range but I also think we need to pull someone in who who is knowledgeable in in managing that type of of information in projects you can't just pull anybody in and say well here you go but ideally someone who has had some experience in Downtown Development and someone who has some experience in managing projects similar like when you're pulling in Grants and those kind of things but you're you're making sure that they they have to be a very good coordinator and those type of things so I I can't give you a dollar range right now I have I wasn't looking for that it's just an idea of the level of a staff person that you would need to complete and be on top of the project or and other projects not just this project that's a good point so you know you're talking mid-range it doesn't have to be a director type position but it's got to

[2:05:46] be someone who's had some experience in the area we've come a long way from when we authorized this guy to come in and look what we could do with our downtown area and bring us someone to build and now we're talking about a full-time position just to monitor it oversee it I I'm not saying it's fulltime position to just monitor that but I am saying that if you're serious about actually giving out Grant dollars such as we're doing with the tears and that's wonderful we're talking about development but I don't feel comfortable giving out a lot of dollars and so forth if we don't have the staff to actually cover and monitor that and make sure that that those things are being adhered to as we want them to um you know it we can we can do it but I don't want to set staff up for failure giving them more than they can handle and then things aren't aren't uh monitored correctly how about some public comment let's see what people say out there may I was going to say that you know you know and I don't want to put him on the spot but I don't know Jim's back there if he' car to weigh in on any of this conversation I'd like to hear it yeah I'd like to hear public comment well thank you my name is Jim Cummings and I'm one of your co-chairman of the Downtown Development commission let me say this that your Downtown Development commission we we recommend to you uh unanimously these in incentives this package for you uh let me say that we here in West Texas we are all blessed to live here in St Angelo uh we have a beautiful River we have a wonderful West Texas Heritage caring friendly population but all of these elements are not enough to incent a high level of venture capital to come into our city as was stated and correctly so

[2:07:49] Venture Capital investors are looking for a return on their investment and we here in St Angelo we are competing against I don't know how many cities our size in this country looking for the same thing yes our River our West Texas Heritage our friendly caring population those are additive but we've got to have an incentive package that will will give these venture capitalist an opportunity to to maximize a return to their investors is this incentive package complete is it total no I'm hoping that some future date that we as your Downtown Development commission can be stand in front of you and say we've got this project we've got these developers but they need this and can we give it to them so I'm I'm hoping that that will be a goal of ours and so that's that's where we're heading but this gives us allows us to at least uh give our Master developer and other other uh develop Vel opers that want to come into our city with projects that will take one of these beautiful old downtown buildings that are vacant that will renovate them and rehabilitate them get them full and producing something economically we we need an incentive package to to help them do that so we wholeheartedly uh recommend this to you with regard to the staff person I I would have to to defer to to Rick and his folks on that issue but that there will need to be some coordin and someone keeping their eye on the ball especially if we have a number of developments going on and that will be wonderful I wish we had a handful going on right now but we'll need someone that will keep the eye on the ball and make sure that all the criteria are being met and meeting the expectations for the for the incentives that they're receiving thank you for the opportunity of serving you we serve at your pleasure your Downtown Development commission we serve it's your pleasure but thank you for giving us the opportunity to serve serve

[2:09:51] you in our city thank you thank you sir do I have further public comment hi ma'am hello Brenda Gunter president of downtown C Angelo Inc we have been blessed since 2005 with tremendous growth and Redevelopment in our downtown area and with every little entity that someone has invested in has made a huge difference whether it was the cely flats whether it's the Fifi DUIs whether it is fat bosses whether it's Miss hatties re whether it's the egam Myers each of these projects have been catalytic in terms of other people being interested in development in the downtown area I believe we're at a point in our lives in Downtown Development that unless we have some major catalytic projects we're going to be at a time period when we won't continue to see the growth and development that we have seen over the past 10 years and when I say that I say there are a couple projects right now that are out there one being the Roosevelt Hotel and two being the townhouse hotel that are very catalytic in terms of the nature of what they can change in our downtown area if they don't get developed no matter what else you do our downtown s Angelo Inc Redevelopment will halt in terms of the progressiveness of what's going on those projects are catalytic in terms of what they can create at the same point in time the interest level is there people have bought into the projects they're passionate about the projects and if you don't have passion you can't do historic Redevelopment at the same point in time they have to work with bankers and they have to work with Finance people and there's a point in which they've reached out and found that their availability of dollars and funds needs support from other programs and from the support of the city of St Angelo there are things like section 108 program there are things like 380 programs there are lots

[2:11:54] of things out there that are available to help us get these projects done but there is Gap financing and we've got to acknowledge that Gap financing exists these people's passion as they are about it still have to bring a black line to the bottom line and they're going to need our support and we have to determine whether the Redevelopment of key projects like the townhouse Hotel the Roosevelt Hotel the Trimble B building the Bogard Tower buildings are important projects to us because if we can't decide to do that those buildings which have been vacant for decades will continue to be vacant for decades and I can't imagine a successful Redevelopment of downtown if those four key projects aren't part of the pl plan and the process because if they're not done when you drive- through downtown what do you see what are you going to feel what's it going to look like we've got to have a priority in terms of what we think the vision is for redevelopment and it takes catalytic projects and it takes buildings that existed there they're going to continue to deteriorate to a point when they're going to topple if we don't do something relatively soon to get some investment Behind these projects we're going to be at a point when no amount of money will solve the problem and I can't imagine histor downtown area without a townhouse Hotel a Roosevelt Hotel a Redevelopment of the Trimble Bacher and the board Towers when you look at the skyline of downtown and look at those buildings what's the first thing you see when you drive through downtown those buildings are pretty prominent do we want them to stay in the in the in the level of disrepair that they're in now and deterioration or do we really want to do something to make those buildings come back to alive and those buildings if they get redeveloped will be the total Catalyst you need to bring additional development they're key component parts to our Redevelopment of

[2:13:58] downtown s angel thank you thank you Brandon mayor yes sir mayor council members sometimes we get hung up on current revenues and allocating monies um especially right now uh I know the Gap uh as far as financing there's going to be we're going to have to have skin in the game is what it comes down to ultimately I know that current we forego current revenues for the future you know it's an investment on our part this is my perspective on it that in the future what we look at is increases in in property values by what we do today also increases the sales tax revenues and other revenues that the city will benefit from what we do today uh there's a lot that's been presented as far as uh what's available incentive wise and it'd be very wise of us to really consider this uh and making sure that we do have the tools available to make sure that we have that Gap covered and I think it's really important that uh we take that very seriously today do I have further public comment on this item Mary Casper she spoke about Banks running out of money St Angelo uh lost $55,000 in sales tax money lately there is now a per capita debt for the city of San Angelo of over $19 00 you're talking about more Bond issues for the police department uh also for other major projects talking about hiring somebody to clean up the waterways because of all the trash with the rain and everything else when is the citizens of St Angelo going to run out of money to fund some of these projects yes they're very good

[2:16:02] but I looked at the packet the entire packet and unfortunately I left it on my kitchen counter this morning when I left they're asking the city of St Angelo to guarantee some of these gaps and when a restaurant is running a a gap for the financing of over $700,000 and another building $600,000 and another building you know pretty soon you're talking about not not pennies you know you're talking about real money here you know it's all very you know I am for the downtown Rehabilitation and everything else it's you know but it's got to be private money and quit being the government money you know it's our money money it's not the city's money it's the taxpayer's money and that's my concern you know it's it's the entire buildup you know is which is where you're hitting everybody in the pocketbooks thank you thank you li we don't represent a faceless entity we represent the taxpayers every day we make decisions that we believe to be in the best interest of the taxpayer we willingly take on debt as an organization just like we do in our personal life when we decide to buy a house and finance it or we buy a car to finance it or a boat and I can go downhill from there we do that willingly if you don't like what we do please run for office this isn't as easy as it looks but I think that doing nothing really does not serve our community well we're Allowed by state law certain tools certain opportunities and the reason that I would be interested in using them is if I believe the rate of return on those is in the Public's best interest in the

[2:18:04] taxpayer's best interest if we can look at a gap that generates potentially three to four times the economic benefit of that investment that's great I also believe though that we have to be very judicious in how we do that and make sure that there are clawback Provisions Etc so that we're not risking taxpayer dollars I personally am very committed to this project and the presentation I thought was outstanding um we are flapping in the breeze if we're not going to talk about skin in the game as it was said at the other end of the table so I think that we need to look at perhaps at least right now leave everything on the table that's been mentioned I'm not ready to be selective I also think in a in a developing a a program like this you know we need to hear from Tina and we need to hear from Michael because this isn't just a planner activity this is a far-reaching activity and you know whether it's tax abatement for 15 years or looking at the section 108 and what that does let's keep all tools in the toolkit I know that Miss Gunner is very concerned that we are going to put new construction and new development ahead of revitalization restoration in our historic City I will never do that Brenda but I want her to have the same opportunity and I want her organization to have the same opportunity at um finders fees and things like that I don't want any of this to be at the detriment of another organization I think we're all truly working to the same end so you know I say if you're looking at uh a piece of property uh raw piece of property on the river that might be a tax abatement significant tax abatement project that may not be what we do with a historic structure that gets 108 or something like that I think that we just need to

[2:20:07] stay very open-minded and as long as this group is committed to not putting one in front of the other I really do think there's enough opportunity for all um is there going to be a time when we run out of money this was all about catalytic projects it was never doing this for every building downtown but truly weighing the benefits of certain significant projects that then would as the term refers bring bring other investment and private investment without without public dollars potentially involved so um I'm all for it I'm sorry we've wasted this much time I think it's you know it's a Fisher cut bait uh situation and I'm ready to go fishing I agree with everything she said I would like to see uh the city appoint an individual to write the guideline just like you would write for a loan program that you're going to do in your your bank or whatever and possibly with uh Jim's help we could write a guideline just like she said one that would have various incentives if it's on the River Project and money's in the source that could be used and another for an existing building where monies could be used and what type of tax or batement that we need those written guidelines and we need to do it now we need to get started and have that base so that we can kick it off further comment from Council well I do have a couple of questions here are we speaking about incentives to rebuild downtown buildings or are we speaking about commercializing the most unique River in the entire world because I don't want to see our River look like San Anton we spent $14 million of citizens money to put walkways and to stabilize our banks and to make our

[2:22:09] River something that is that is utilized for every citizen in this town I don't want our River to look like San Anton I don't want it to be when you walk down the river you're walking in somebody's backyard and and I'm very much opposed to that now if we're talking about s mecis for downtown buildings that are just setting their vacant that need some work then that's one thing if we're talking about commercializing our River that's something else so what's what's the breakdown here well Mr Mayor as you alluded to I think there's a plan for the river there's a plan for downtown and as the plan suggests there are areas of opportunity so you're looking at infill opportunities where there's vacant land where there's development that could occur it could potentially be on the river however it's not I you know it's not limited to the river per se we're talking about all of the center city as we're calling it in the plan as because it really expands Beyond just the downtown proper um so you're talking about Redevelopment opportunities adaptive reuse infill all those things that uh need to occur for for revitalization to to beh whole within the city well I don't have a problem with doing some incentives if someone wants to come in and re build one of the the old buildings downtown I don't have a problem one with that let's help them but I do have a problem with incentivizing people that want to come in here and build on our River because I want to protect that river right the other thing I was uh uh was mentioned is that you all will have the opportunity obviously to to weigh in on the individual projects so it's not as if um there won't be transparency as it relates to the significance of the project again we're not talking about every project as M gr said referred to we're talking about catalytic projects so you'll have the opportunity to see projects see their relative worth look at what the return on the investment is and that's what you'd expect the staff to bring forward to you with a recommendation so it should be fully vetted and when it comes to you you'll have the ability to to understand what the basis for recommendation

[2:24:14] was any other Council I'll add that I'm to with you mayor I mean I I believe bottom line is we do we are going to have to have some kind of skin in the game but I I also believe that what we have now as a downtown we have a lot of eyesore buildings around downtown and I think those need to be looked at first I do believe that anything we build we really and I'm glad he's telling this we're going to have the final say so because I think the attraction to our downtown to the city of San Angelo is vital you know whether you know the folks that come in and buy gas and go to restaurants and all we need to make it a little bit more attractive but at the same time I think we need to really look hard at filling in the infill idea of some of the the existing buildings that are out there they're they're just you know in in dire uh needs of of repair so it's a balancing act we're going to have to have some kind of new construction but at the same time I hope we look at uh just revitalizing any of the old stuff that's out there so that that's just bottom we're going to have to have some kind of skin in the game whether it be a tax abatement whether it be us funding giving some kind of funding source to whoever uh I think uh it's going to need to happen so so what you're asking for today is that we authorize you to put together something with dollar amounts and what it would cost and what the incentives would be and that you would bring them back to us for discussion and approval is that what you're asking for no I think there's multiple things the first thing is you have a a plan in front of you that is presented from the DDC and is proposed at for adoption so it has a list of all of those incentive options in it so we're looking for you to say yes that that's okay we want to accept that that doesn't mean you have to use all those

[2:26:17] incentives but it says if a developer comes to us we have a list of things we know that you will at least consider and so we can work with them to develop something at the end of the day it comes back to you for approval or or not now aside from that that's the one thing I'd like action on the other if you want to give us direction to come if you want to say that rede or restoration is a higher priority in the new construction then we can try and craft some sort of General guidelines that we go by and bring those back to you but this is basically the the format in this report but won't don't we need some figures as far as uh how many years of batement what percentage of batement how much would we don't we need some concrete figures to work with before we start approving this I do those figures will have to come with each CA with each project each project will be different and so those will be individual depending on what it is you know if it's a huge project you may be willing to do a baitman at a longer period of time than some little bitty project so those will be individual yes ma'am we did this in abene what we would do is we would look at the magnitude of the project and what we and then quantify what we believe to be the public benefit so you're going to see them somewhat or could depending on what we agree to on an individual basis but I think what we need too to look at today in this plan is it mentions a variety of tools and if we're good with that we leave them out there and then staff and I mean to me this is heavy in fining comes to us and says you know here's what we would recommend they're not they're not leaving it simply to the planners because there's a huge financial impact of this and then we decide where we're comfortable and where we're not but I think I guess in truth what we need to do is say if there's something we're completely uncomfortable with we take that out right now right now I I don't want to do that I'd like to leave as many things on the table as we can also I think weren't you and Charlotte and Johnny involved in the

[2:28:20] the discussion about a raw piece of land on the river and isn't wasn't that the impetus for the Downtown Development commission so this Council a council has had some commitment to new development but I I I I think we need to start looking at the river and downtown as being less separate and something that can really support one another and again not one at the the expense of the other but I think there's enough tools here I really do that we can help we can help both and potentially simultaneously yes sir and you're right Elizabeth whenever it was first brought to us we had no idea of the schematic that was brought you know it was a drawing and and I I agree with you I don't need I don't think we need a bunch of brick walls along the river with that River belongs to our citizens we were blown away by the design we we had no idea what was coming our way and I was going to add something else yes the uh where is where is P Paris Rutherford in the on all these discussions I mean is he missing an action is he still this plan of course is presented to us by them his contract is real specific about the number of site visits and so forth so he presented you know at the last time which was basically this plan problem with that presentation was it did not ask for Clear action what we're doing today so his contract allows him a certain number of visits the staff is certainly capable of understanding and presenting that that's why we're doing it today because he's used his visits already but again I think that the plan that was first presented to us and and Charlotte will she's not there but anyway she can hear you okay it was just a it totally changed the face of downtown you know along the river and but the the brick walls in our you know it just seemed like we were just covering up our River with all that new

[2:30:22] idea of the new buildings new construction so it was a building now I can understand something like maybe a hotel between the chadburn and Irving Street Bridge somewhere in there but can you please clarify did you ever see that drawing did you see that it's con it it's all conceptual but what we started with was a piece of land a piece of land that the health Foundation was involved with yes and that's why the Downtown Development commission was created to look for a developer for that period we're not talking about doing anything more to the river than what we've already invested millions of dollars in what we're talking about is here is a privately owned piece of property what do we think has the greatest synergistic effect for the whole downtown area in that same breath there were the Elizabeth is right on the initial property as the the master developer went through and you'll see in your report they look at how to combine a variety of things to make your your downtown or city center vibrant whether that's commercial or or housing or or all those things so while you'll see a variety of projects housing for instance was one that was looked at or retail for that particular piece of property there are also other properties along the river that they have identified not just along the river but in all of downtown so uh you will see proposals like that that could come forward I think in order for the downtown and City Center to be vibrant you've got to focus somewhat on that River because that's what we've done in the past with our plan and and do we need to have some housing on it I think so I think that's a huge sell for St Angela we need it downtown as well where that would be and how much that's still to be decided by you so you would see each of those projects come before you and then you can decide but and one thing we've talked about too is like the idea of the easement that remains on that side of the river so it's it stays public no one's trying to sell the river we're just trying to I think we all want

[2:32:25] to maximize the beauty of it and have more people experience that but I think historically because the river was not the amenity that it is now how many years ago 20 years ago it was a you know a problem now we want downtown to interface with the river and I and I sincerely believe that everything that um that Brenda wants and and um you know other other entities or individuals want is to see all of it healthy and all of it you know vibrant and we'll never be successful with new construction a new project on the river if all of the older buildings stay vacant and bliding I mean we've got to we've got to look at this holistically and we have got to you know cooperate and I think be open to a number of different financing tools that we to this date have tried to ignore and I do want a caution against limiting our incentives to just certain type of projects it has to really open up to whether it's a a new construction uh depending on what it is uh the more that we have available to us and without those limitations uh on the certain type of projects that can be determined at a later date as far as what type of project would be most beneficial to this community but uh and looking at the incentive package uh we do like as far as staff what has been presented to us I know it went to the DDC and they also approved and uh we do recommend that we move forward with what we have as far as incentive package without those limitations as to which projects uh those incentives will will um actually be used for Marty do you have anything I but as I understand it each one will stand on its own yeah that's correct I I I move we move forward second I was on do have a motion but do we have a second do we have any further

[2:34:28] comment from the council other than I pulled back our original resolution and plan on with the foundation and we're totally in line we're not pigeon pigeon ho holding just one project so no are we on A and B yes we took them together unless separate do I have further public comment before we vote on this motion is made that we accept this as presented it has been seconded all in favor please say I I I and nays there's going to be one nay here I don't like this open-ended stuff let move on mayor as a pointed clarification I'll ask the DDC now to take this you've given them Direction so we'll work with them to bring whatever else needs to come forward to y'all through the DC you know the way I'd remember this though is that Paris came in here and said if you will give me this first stage I'm going to bring you all sorts of investors and I'm going to bring you people to town that's going to build and now this has grown and grown and grown it's it's it's completely unrecognizable as to what we initially approved and I guess that's what bothers me about this whole thing let's go on now let's get he did change hats in the middle of the game remember but he was he was a planner turned around now I'm let's go to number 14 which is discussion and consideration of the recommendation of the ti board to modify the establishing ordinance for this board to allow unlimited reappointment of members by the city council AJ this will be much shorter um I'll take a relief uh we are bringing to you a recommendation from the tax increment reinvestment zone or the te board um you might remember recently that the ti board has been relocated it's now being administered through the department of planning and development services uh we noted at the time that the M listing was dated so we worked with the city clerk to do some extensive research regarding the origin of the membership on the board um because the records were very unclear of that we learned that of the

[2:36:32] 15 members that are authorized through the ordinance um and my math is incorrect here instead of nine members it's actually eight members that have expired terms of those eight three are eligible for additional terms under the parameters of the existing ordinance the TI members did direct staff to bring forward an item for their consideration and had some extensive discussion about benefits of term limits the pros and cons um and they did make an official action to recommend an amendment to the ordinance that would allow their members to be reappointed for additional terms in immediate succession without limit the current limit is three terms in April they unanimously recommended approval of this ordinance revision and directed us to bring It Forward forward to you the council in the background packet and staff report we outlined the different requirements of the 15 members every one of those 15 members has parameters that dictate who would be eligible for that particular seat the items in red here and italics denote um items which those positions need to be filled so again of those we have uh eight that the terms have expired of those eight three are eligible for reappointment for one more term leaving five for which we have uh no backups at this time this is an excerpt from the ordinance the full content of it is in your background packet but the change that is recommended really is limited to just this one line it would strike the line that limits them to three consecutive two-year terms and would instead replace it with the language that the members May again be reappointed for additional terms in immediate succession without limitations today we have uh drafted this just as a discussion item for you it is not a first reading you have several options that you can take and so we're asking for your direction here uh first of all of course you can opt for further discussion on the item either today or at a future meeting you could

[2:38:34] accept the recommendation of the ti board and direct staff to prepare a formalized Amendment for first reading at a future agenda you could of course begin with the pursuit of reappointment and replacement of the members whose terms have expired or lastly of of course you could delay any action until you have a joint session with the tear board if that's a desire that you have that's really the content of the presentation we really just want to hear your discussion and your direction and if you have any questions I can take those now we do have some members of the board in attendance as well that can speak on the behalf hey J item number three is with the understanding that we stay with what we currently have in our ordinance is that correct that is correct and understand I'm glad you brought that up understand too that the way that the ordinance is written members serve until they are replaced so I know one of the fears of the ti board membership was having a large scale replacement all at one time and you of course how would have the option to stagger that because the members can agree to stay on until they are replaced so you do have considerable control in the timing and um the pattern at which these members are replaced and the Staggering point is a good a good point to bring up that might assist that is a good option and the way it's written right now I think that board members uh have to lay off a year correct before they could be reappointed correct Rodney couple of things that I see on this one is that this board voted in favor of allowing themselves to be on this board basically inde definitely unless you have a council person remove them from the board uh or replace them on the board uh I'm not in favor of this I I think this the the system we have in place is good that we have right now three terms I think is plenty we should be asking other individuals to come in and have different points of view anyways so that we don't have the same 15 people that are in this job indefinitely might be more in favor of pursuing to The Replacements I think we should be hunting hard for those things and I hope somebody's watching this that it's not on the board that would like to

[2:40:35] be on the board that fits the parameters of what you have to be in order to be on this board Elizabeth I I had three members or no less than three members of the tear board call me and say please don't support this um I think they didn't feel comfortable in the meeting speaking and that's why I had some questions of Patrick and exactly how this how this occurred which you know you don't have to get up it's safer to stay there I promise um but I'm I agree with uh councilman Fleming that I don't think this is necessary I think it's very contradictory to the idea of turnover and it's really not like most of our other boards and I don't think this is is the the direction that I want to see us go in I'd rather see turnover new blood and um involving more people in the community as as appropriate amen anyone else yes uh I too had a couple of phone calls from cheers board members that uh basically said the same thing they just didn't feel comfortable speaking against this and ask me not to support it uh that concerns me when a board member doesn't speak out on a board that that concerns me um I'm want to ask someone on staff if they can recall when this uh board was designed was weren't there guidelines from the federal government that we had to follow for this board state does anyone recall tax increment financing in the state of Texas is is uh governed by uh section 311 of the the local government code so there are specific uh guidelines related to how they operate in terms of the composition of the board it doesn't speak to that ma'am okay mayor yes I did not get a call from anybody but W without limit kind of sent

[2:42:41] out a red flag for me and I do not believe in without limit at at all I'm not comfortable with that so I'm opposed to it anyone else for a call for public comment Marty do you have any thoughts on it no Lucy do you have any thoughts yes sir public comment on this item I'm Craig Myers and I probably am a very lonely person because over the last six years I've been at two-thirds of the tear board meeting which has been very interesting and uh I have to say that I was received as a member of WT as a very u in a very gracious way a lot of collaboration welcoming uh the kinds of input that we had we were primarily there because on the Northern Tier uh section uh chadburn it's surrounded by the two blighted areas that we have been strongly involved with in terms of neighborhood revitalization also I applaud the achievement the major achievement which was the tear participation and contribution to downtown revitalization we support it 100% And we think that it uh the street escapes uh combined with the amenities that were provided uh have gone a long way toward making the revitalization downtown more possible with that being said I really strongly oppose this for a couple of reason reasons and there's a radical difference between term limitations in elected people and appointed people elected people have their terms um they're taken away from them every election cycle people have a chance to uh indicate that they are satisfied or not satisfied these people are for Life unless they really do something obscene that offends either the person who

[2:44:44] appointed them or otherwise but but my problem is that people know what they know and they see what they know and they do what they do based on that and if you look at the people who are appointed up there uh this came up very early and that's why they um that's why they separated uh the North and South zones of the tear board because if you look up there not only the people coming from a number of um excuse me uh voting districts but people from ASU people from sisd people from the base most of the people on this have affinities with either by Resident social or financial or economic uh interaction with people in the government downtown the economic the legal system Etc and so we found that the northern side even though they generate far more tax income than downtown was finding that they were treated uh not fairly early on and so the decision was made to separate these two now there have been two major projects undertaken by the current board no bias I'm not you know imputing anybody's Integrity or anything but the facts of the matter are that early on the chadburn streetcap project was designed it was had its conceptual work Jerry C and myself walked from the bypass up to Walmart three separate times both sides of the street stopping at every uh business at the request of the city staff to try to generate some enthusiasm from those people that would get them on board with this streetcape and we had meetings those people came they were promised that this was going to happen and by golly it hadn't happened uh in fact not only the conceptual stuff but a template

[2:46:46] was provided when three blocks uh near 19th Street were shown as the model of what they wanted to happen this was before there was any conceptual work on downtown and so as they talked about what kinds of decorations they wanted on the benches that have never appeared all these different kinds of things enough money has passed through in the last seven years the te bank account on the North side to have completed this along with the U uh grants that were provided at the time enough money has come to complete the whole thing but even though it came on board later downtown more complicated relocating utilities and all of this you know uh was completed and then te's money even though there's three blocks south of uh Houston Hart that are technically in the tear uh section that's not a part of the priority up there but money from the north side was come down there because that completed the conceptual expectations of the Treet Street Landscapes on the south nothing has been done illegally nothing has been done immorally but just because of who people are and what they know there's one project that's been unfinished that started before the others that is as desperately needed up there as any of the things are downtown and so it seems to me that what you have is the need for a continuation of new people who come in also people who U have an understanding of an obligation to the whole of the two tiers uh zones and one further thing the fear that they're going to lose the continuity that comes from U uh you know five people out of 15 that's the ideal that if you have five people coming on five people going off five people who have some experience that's the best

[2:48:47] rotation to see that you have an active Dynamic board and I would make this suggestion as competent as the people are who've served on a board as much as they deserve our gratitude and appreciation for what they have accomplished this isn't rocket science they don't have to know engineering they don't have to know construction they don't have to know finance and they don't have to know legal and Zoning because that's what the staff is there to see that it happens they look at what's needed they collect collaborate with the people who are involved and find out what their input is they design some projects and then they give them to other people and they oversee the financing of it to see that it's done and I tell you there's about 60 meetings in these last six years they haven't met every month and in those 60 meetings Immaculate uh minutes have been taken they're about two pages long the uh Financial are right up there so that you can see exactly where the money has come from what's done with it and you can put those two things together and after about two nights reading taking time out to watch survival or something you can be up to speed on what is happening I think far more important than experience doing the same things over and over what we need are new people to say how can we catch up reassign our priorities and get it done and I suppose I'm probably 5 minutes or whatever thank you thank you further public comment good morning everyone I'm Floyd ker I don't know if I need a mic maybe for the machine but I'll try not to use myun S Voice uh I agree with the four comments that I've heard from city council uh my experience and background is uh military career uh education career and non nonprofits and when you

[2:50:52] have appointed people in the military you want to rotate them I got rotated like about every three years um and there's a reason for that it didn't always it wasn't always that way before maybe turn of the 1900s and whatnot uh but they found out that not everybody just a small percentage of people there would be problems uh you're uh you will be affected by influence and affluence and it would col color your decision for that small group of people but it would be enough of a problem that it would might cause uh catastrophe in the area uh they rotate folks in the in the school district I mean uh so that you know you have that fresh blood and in the nonprofit area I have I was very satisfied with my board uh when I founded Galilee Community Development Corporation for affordable housing uh I thought they were doing a great job but when I went to United way for a grant uh Miss Harrison told us you know what you don't rotate your board we're not too interested in giving you a grant because we know from experience that there's sometimes there's problems if you don't have that rotation people get complacent they get into a rut uh there's a familiarity that can sometimes breed contempt uh and and ultimately not always not everybody I'm not trying to impune anybody but your power can corrupt and absolute power can corrupt absolutely if you have have an appointed uh situation uh there should be a limit on that and there should be a rotation it's set up so that you can be off a year and come back uh if it's uh 3 * two for a maximum of six maybe you want to make it a maximum of eight so it's four time two but uh indefinitely and forever I get the same red flag that uh councilman uh silvus mentioned uh a little earlier that uh that could be problematic you can get so entrenched rotating is good for the leaders they get to see uh different aspects of things it's good for the element itself

[2:52:55] for the organization and it's good for their mission and for the entire city it's good for a large pool of people to be involved in a variety of things one uh uh suggestion I might make is that the city uh might uh actively promote uh board application I I presume and and people that I talk to in my church and my Community they have no idea what tears stands for or what they do uh but there's not a lot of active um that I can see active uh explanation of what they do and and and that goes for just about all the other boards I'm on the PHA board we need to do more uh to promate what we do so people will know and then maybe you might want to uh you know uh appoint different people they would come to you and say I want to serve on that you can look at their qualifications and say yeah we agree with with that and have some fresh blood and more Community involvement and not necessarily the same same same folks all the time over and over again and that's just uh my viewpoint on it thank you for your time and trouble Bill do you have a commenter mayor Morrison members of the council thank you for your service to the city I'm one of those overdue members you are Bill dend my name is Bill dendle I serve on the tear committee I I'm one of those overdue members uh that's been there for a significant period of time um I'm hearing the comments from the public and I appreciate Craig with WT and his work with the teers they've been a great help to us uh we are finally completing some projects in the North after after a season of saving some money to where we could do some significant work and I think you guys are seeing it between 6th and 14th and it's our our uh our goal to continue toward four from 14th to 18th with some additional funds that we have available at this point um again uh there are some there are some members that have been overdue at this point but in the grand scheme of things we serve at the discretion of the council and I

[2:54:57] don't know if you guys are actually reviewing uh your appointments on a regular basis or not um that would be evid we have evidently that and that would be at the apprisal of the council that they do that uh that we do serve two-year terms so uh I have been uh in the in the position in sort of a duality of roles a with the single member district 2 and also with seisd uh um I'm not for sure that the other uh entities involved the county the the uh ASU Goodfellow SSD are aware of their uh uh responsibility to review that position every two years also so some of us some of us senior members have been on there for significant period of time we have been able to maintain a certain amount of of uh sustainability and continuity with some of the projects that have been ongoing and longgo as Mr Myers has mentioned especially in the north chabr streetscape project it takes a tremendous amount of money to start or complete a portion of those blocks and we uh the tax collection for each Zone doesn't Garner that within a within a Year's period of time so we also uh uh entertain outside projects as we just have recently uh and I think we've just up upped our limits especially in some of the areas to maximum of 75,000 but some of the some of those projects aren't even touched by that that amount of money so uh there is a certain amount of of uh of uh of Creedence to uh sustainability and uh and also to uh continuity but uh at this moment I think the board has three positions that are vacant and I couldn't tell you if a it's a council member's position or a county position position Asus sasd so I'd really encourage the city to review uh that position because without uh that sustainability we wouldn't be able to to obtain a quorum to even meet so there are some there are

[2:57:01] some underlying issues with the whole process I think that a hybrid of the whole issue a hybrid process of this would be uh uh something that could come out of this where uh not that you have longstanding members but at least that you have uh the opportunity to uh at least let one remain until a replacement can be found and so I'm not I'm not saying that uh I'm ready to get off but I certainly entertain the uh uh the uh the the notion that somebody would really want to jump up there and serve in my position also because I know there are several concerned citizens in St Angelo that are concerned about what happens uh regardless of the area be at the river downtown uh you know we want to call it the North and the South zone I'm not really uh Happ on that term uh it's all about St Angelo it's not really about the North and the South and those funds are are separated so they can only be spent in certain areas of the city uh so uh the the money that's collected in the north is spent in the north I didn't draw the lines uh uh the money that's that's collected in the south is spin in the South I don't draw those lines but I'm I'm at least I'm uh opportunistic that I'm available to take part in discussion that will spend money in a downtown area that I drive through every day or on the river that I I you know I see every day or down North chav that I drive down quite frequently also so um I'd really entertain the Motions or Notions from the Council on how you can uh uh set this maybe on your calendar to review and to at least make us this that gentleman's job right there as um as AJ pointed out we had re been in review of the uh members and the which qualifications they meet uh regarding the restrictions of the creation of the members um we would recommend that maybe what I will do is I'll provide each of the council members with that ordinance so that you can look at the restrictions that are placed on who you can appoint there because it it it did create quite a bit of confusion as we were reviewing

[2:59:03] and it might be something that y'all would be interested in taking a look at changing the wording so that it doesn't tie your hands quite as much as you uh start to replace those members well in uh Bill reading what was provided in the packet I and looking at the attendance record of all those that are currently on the board I see that there's two vacancies I don't know of three but it shows two vacancies and it shows I don't even have an appointee on the te board which surprises me I Mr Allen is is has recently resigned and that may Mr Allen has recently resigned that may be one of the positions that's nowac is Bill's time up or does he still have the floor mine is actually mine is actually up I am up M farmer um that is part of what I was talking about um the way that it's restricted there is not a representative for each member of council that might be something that y'all definitely want to look at there are there are eight further comments there are eight not really I just I I just want to say that I serve at the at the discretion of the council and thank you for that opportunity thank you for com I'm ready to make a motion do I have any further public comment on this you're going to provide uses on this and just to finish that the that thought the there are eight appointees that you all have um and there is not a representative for each one of you uh so it I think it would be worth taking a look at and yes I will I'll provide that need to I'll provide that via email and I'll also provide it in the Friday packet yes um the composition of the board is governed under state law cannot exceed 15 each taxing unit has some authority to appoint and so there may not be enough space for the city to have each council member have an appointment but we we have to take take a look at no there is

[3:01:05] we can look at it there is there is do you have a motion did you want to move yes I I'm going to Second it on once I'm going to make a motion that we pursue or begin pursuing reappointment SL replacement of current members that's my that's my motion option can option three can I ask that you consider an amendment to your motion yes where we reject the idea of unlimited terms yes yes well is it part of the and I want to add that we do not want the Without Limits at all so option three is what I'm going for Without Limits second do have a motion I do have a second we've had discussion from Council is there any more we've had public comment is there any more I'll call for the vote the uh motion has been that we reject that re we reject the ability for people to serve continuously without replacement and that we review the restrictions and the Amendments and the ordinance what and the agenda is for recommendation so um you're not actually adopting a change we're recommending we are recomending recommending you'll recommend that I am recommending now all day long absolutely it has been recommended you could do it just by consensus yeah we don't need to vote on Memorial but now we need to vote on can we've already got a motion we're going to have to vote on you can yeah recommend I'm recommendation yes it's all been recommended all in favor of the recommendation please say I any opposed to the recommendation say n the recommendation has been approved uh Rick says we need to get 15 real quick how quick two minutes okay discussion consideration the petition seeking annexation to S Angelo city limits of certain property situated immediately

[3:03:08] south of s Angelo generally located south of loop 306 and east of Nica Road specifically described as approximately 5.85 Acres out of land out of the cast ER berberich survey 177 abstract number one number 52 and hrich zerach Survey 178 abstract number 4210 city of s Angelo Tom Green County Texas being out of a certain 54872 track described and recorded instrument number 20115 372 official public records Tom Green County Texas and said 5.85 acre track more particularly described by meets and Bounds in Tom Green County Texas M all right this is the Bentwood annexation it's almost 6 Acres it's south of loop 306 and east of nicara Road it is in the etj and if Annex will likely be put into single member district number one future luse designation of this site is neighborhood and in fact the plans for the developer are to combine this with the Bentwood existing Bentwood development so you can likely see um houses being built in this area but this area is specifically going to be used for roadway and for drainage some some perhaps some housing but you can expect this to be utilized again mainly for drainage or roadways um you can tell this is in the etj it is adjacent to rm1 and rs1 Zoning this is the approved annexation plan it is determined as intermediate on that approved annexation plan this is the copy of the major Thorofare plan and the utility map these maps are both provided in your staff reports the action requested is to accept the petition to Annex and to accept the indicated schedule of hearings this would be scheduled hearing number one out of five anticipated hearings this concludes staff's presentation is this yours Rodney yes it is you want to go one way or other move to acceptance presented Rodney accepts Charlotte second comment councel comment public all in favor say I I oppose nay 70 vote go to lunch let's go to lunch executive

[3:05:09] session uh executive session under the revision of government Cod Title 5 open government ethics subtitle a open government chapter 5 551 open meeting sub chapter D exceptions to requirement that meetings be open under the following section section 55171 one8 to consult with attorney with the governmental body seeks the advice of its attorney about pending or complicated litigation regarding Mar for HFI Energy Systems LL c section 55107 to deliberate the purchase exchange lease or value of real property pertaining potential sites for a police department administration building 12:32 we ought to be back in an hour 30 minutes okay we'll be back 30 minutes we'll be back in 30 minutes if possible and if an hour if not possible 12:32 Brian it is 1112 let's call the meeting back to order uh number 17 on the agenda consideration of authorizing the city manager or his designed to negotiate and execute a personal services contract and related documents with mun Services LLC for hotel occupancy tax audit Services Tina benel thank you may mayor and Council um we are definitely due for another hotel occupancy tax audit it's been about 4 years since we did our last one um and the statute of limitations is four years for those Audits and so we'd really like to get this underway and get it started some of the benefits of course are the to maximize Revenue increase compliance and of course education of Hotel years and the goal would be to capture any unrealized Revenue so some common mistakes and these aren't always um intentional of course but there's mistakes with exemptions and you know incomplete records miscalculation just failure to to keep accurate records things like that um and so like I said it can go back four years um we proposed to fund this with the proceeds of Hotel occupancy tax uh for the time being and then to reimburse that with any excess Revenue that's found by the audit um the previous audit

[3:07:11] in 2010 yielded $76,000 in additional revenue from 29 hotels um and then there's also the possibility of a finder fee of 20% from the state if we find any uh tax revenue that should have been remitted to them and wasn't um so that's that's pretty much all there is to it we're asking for authorization for city manager to negotiate and execute that contract with M services and what is the cost of it the cost is um proposed at $1,700 a flat fee per hotel that's chosen we are requesting a not to exceed amount of $40,000 so to get as many hotels that they think are high risk within that amount and and it's required pardon me and you said it's required every four years it is not required we think it's best practice because of the fact that there's a statute of limitations of four years so if we do it every four years we can capture that you know on a four-year rotation okay anything that we would have missed misunderstood you I'll I'll entertain a motion motion to approve second do have a motion from Elizabeth I'll take Johnny second on it do I have any further councel discussion can I can I pull my second and ask Lucy to Second it no no okay all right do I have public comment on this item warming up motion has been made do we accept all in favor please say I I oppose nay you got Lucy's you got Lucy on that I was going to say n just so he'd be happy all right we now have number 18 which is discussion and any action theto regarding the annual fee review Morgan CH Wht good afternoon what we have before you today is the final group of folks who are recommending changes to their fees so today we're going to talk about permits and inspections and planning uh we will continue to bring back to the council after today's discussion we'll wrap up of course the

[3:09:13] initial by consensus discussions uh but we will continue to bring the adoption and any ordinance related any ordinances related to implement those fees so we expect that this will be a continuing discussion um as discussed last time that this is part of the revised process for fee review and here we are on track for June to talk about development services specifically planning and permits and inspections so if it's the council's pleasure we can dive right into this we have uh planning scheduled first and of course I have key staff available to answer any specific questions and I can over the the financials if you like what we have here is step by step the estimated cost of service for each of the proposed items and then we will go on to the financial impact of the proposed items and the survey of peer cities of the proposed items and so we can we can go through these one by one if it's the council's pleasure how we want to move through them the everybody everybody comfortable with that yeah you're saying them so to begin with planning we have easement release at an estimated cost of service of over $69 the current fee is $37.50 uh we're proposing that fee go to $150 for the variance administrative the current cost of service and if I may the cost of service of course is related to labor and staff time spent on it and any supplies uh used to to provide the service so the variance administrative the estimated cost of service is almost $170 at a current fee of $50 proposed to go to $75 for administrative repats the estimated cost to provide that service is almost $45 a current fee of $22.50 proposing to go to $250 the next item is conditional use with an estimated cost of almost $385,000 $385 forgive me uh at a current fee of $353 proposed to go to $375 the next item is is final plat at a

[3:11:19] cost of over $445 a current fee of $312 proposed fee of $350 we'll continue with the estimated cost of service uh with a replat for example again that cost of service of $445 current fee $312 proposed fee $350 the next item there is rezoning for plan development with an estimated cost of service of $69 current fee of $547 proposed fee of $600 preliminary plat of $495 is the cost to provide that service the current fee is $337 we would recommend moving that up to $400 the right of-way abandonments estimated cost of service again very comparable to other items you've seen of $69 the current fee is $434 we would uh propose bumping that up slightly to $450 street name changes again a cost of service of $69 current fee of $28.7 5 I proposed to increase that to $250 again continuing with the estimated cost of service we have special use uh again with that same cost of service of $69 the current fee of $378 proposed to go to $400 the next item there is variance sign ordinance the estimated cost of service is almost $385 current fee of $68.7 proposing to increase that to $200 the next item is variant zoning ordinance again very comparable uh with a cost of $385 uh current fee of $225 proposing to go to $250 uh under resoning with a cost of $69 current fee of $460 proposed of $500 the these next few items will go through we currently do not charge a fee for we're recommending implementing a fee for dhrc review a cost uh to provide that service of $385 again a current fee of of 0 proposing to implement $100 uh the next item comprehensive plan

[3:13:23] amendments it it costs us an approximate $570.00 we're not currently charging for that function we would proposed charging $500 the next item related to annexations it approximately cost us $1,534 36 we'd recommend implementing a new fee of $1,000 for those items and the last item before you is zoning verification letters it cost us about $73 to provide that function and the proposed fee would be to implement something at at $25 and with that we have the financial impact of each item the total Financial impact as indicated in your background is would be if all of these fees were implemented for a normal year like the one we just experienced uh would be a uh increased revenue of $1,579 125 and here is the uh detail on each of those uh you you'll see the volume for example of a replot at that marginal revenue uh would yield $1,026 each of those are outlined here before you the next area we have to go over is the survey data related to planning and you'll see here the proposed fee for each of these items and then what our peer cities are charging and we compare this to abene Midland Odessa uh wit Hall Falls as a starting point to develop with that what we looked like side by side with those other communities uh for example easement uh release we're proposing a fee of $150 as you've seen uh the survey data is showing that other communities are charging $100 to $400 so certainly within uh what other groups are charging uh variance administrative that's one where we're proposing $75 however uh the data we have on peer cities is that they're charging $200 so we have each of those available uh we're well within uh what other folks are charging for each of these uh for comprehensive plan amendments we didn't find that other

[3:15:25] cities really charge a fee in that way so we had no data to report for that one and if it's the council's pleasure we can stop and talk about planning specifically now or we can move on to permits and uh and continue with the the presentation it's continue with the presentation does everybody have do you have questions I wouldn't mind just stopping at planning for a minute um I think that when you look honestly at the cost of the cost of service versus what you're proposing or where we are now in the grand scheme of a development $100 is it's $100 but it's a negligible amount in the overall development I would like to see us get to on these fees exactly the cost of of service because otherwise residents in our community are are essentially underwriting that and there's no need for that these are all discretionary type costs so I don't I don't see any any need for a taxpayer completely uninvolved in this to be underwriting that that's a cost of doing business I don't think as long as we keep them related to the the cost of our service that that they're in any way uh you know inflated or or non- defensible that's my personal feeling I agree we voted on this last month on the on the other services that we were talking about and we I think that I agree with Liz entirely on this that we should continue but I I think that we should increase it slowly like we said we would the last time but I think once we get to get at that point I think we should tie this somewhere to uh cost of living index or something like that and do a yearly instead of doing this I think it's been over 10 years for most of these changes without a single change and that's not how that's not how the real world is pretty much every year things go up a little bit right I think

[3:17:28] mayor we're close enough on some of these that we could look at just going ahead and to me going 100% yeah I like the incremental increases I mean it's not our citizens it's not our citizens fault that we got in this situation and I might I might add that also yesterday tax reappraisals went out to our our citizens and these things have gone through the roof I mean our citizens can only take so much and uh by taking I understand a small incremental and we'll do this yearly and then over the span of a year a couple of years we'll be able to get it to where we want it but I am very much opposed to a big huge increase like this Charlotte well I agree you know we agreed to do it in incrementals but if you look at conditional use the cost is $384 current fee3 53 the proposed fee is 375 I agree we should take it to the 385 because of the mere cost of bringing it back and talking about it again it's just such a small amount the others I I agree with I wouldn't have a problem to go from 375 to 384 96 on that one that's fine too but when you're talking about going from 3750 to 150 to 60936 on the East mon that's that's that's too much and I don't mind a I don't mind in reason but we need to remember these are our these are our citizens and the citizens that pay this are the same citizens that have to pay everything else and I don't I don't want to hit them like this take it in increments and make it so that they can digest it instead of Mayor I'm down here um that that's exactly opposite of what's Happening though these are generally born by the development Community or someone undertaking a project it's our citizens that are underwriting the differential in the cost of that service and what we're collecting so I'm trying to take it off the backs of the citizens and not put it on them exactly as I said they're all discretionary do

[3:19:30] you want to go for an easement release and and have half of your alley or something then pay for it and pay for the process in which that our staff are going through to to to process and review that and bring it to council I don't think there's anything unreasonable I think it's actually more fair to the general citizen our goal is to get it to the cost of service that is our goal our ultimate goal is to get it there we'll never get there if we continue to wait well and I agree with her even if you look at the variance uh going from $50 to uh 75 when the actual cost is $169.90 it's going to take forever and cost more time to bring it up if if there is that much to take it to what the estimated service is uh I think we should change it now the full amount the rest of them when you look at 609 to 3750 uh the proposed fee 150 it's going to take us several years to get it up to the actual cost if we don't do a larger increase now and as she said those are going to the developers the people are coming in to develop buy some land make some changes this takes it off of of the backs of our citizens but I would ask who is the who is the final person in line for a developer because that developer has to develop it he has to build it he has to sell it and the citizen is the one that's finally getting stuck for these all of these additional charges I don't have a problem with raising them in incrementally but I do have a problem with taking them and also I would say this estimated cost of service this is kind of an arbitrary number too and possibly if we are lower possibly we could increase our services or our output maybe we could bring our cost down I would rather I think that would be an incentive to lower cost than to just pay it up front I'm I'm opposed to this as it I'll accept your proposal but

[3:21:33] I'm I'm not in favor of any more I I have a comment on I I believe it was that first one you showed where you talked it was something like estimated cost of $1,000 go one more annexations no that's all of them okay well there was one where it it was a large estimated cost and you said that a lot of that had to do with labor so explain to me how all of these the estimated cost of service for each of these items there's an estimate for the amount of time that each staff person who touches it um spends on it so for example the the planner the planning manager the director um an admin assistant really anybody who's involved in making this service be provided to the uh customer that is what's included in it but aren't we already providing a salary to that staff person I mean oh sure and that's not going to change that this is just to recoup that we're paying a salary and benefits and we're trying to recoup what if we were to charge customers what it cost to provide the service that's what that estimated cost of service is intended to portray I find that hard to swallow I just I don't throwing in the labor cost in there no Johnny basically basically what we're saying is at this point for the cost of service for the cost that we're providing the service we're actually in the hole yeah we're following the hole and what we're trying to do is make up to make sure that we're at least at a break even point which is what Liz is talking about is to get us to at least a break even point which our whole goal from the very get-go when we started reviewing our fees is to make sure that we do get to that point where we are providing or least charging for our cost of service and that's basically what this is about to make sure that we're not in the hole any longer or at least we're moving toward removing that that the red that we're in so is it fair to say like Elizabeth said the developer is getting stuck with this bill I mean I think at the at the tail customer for this these Services is the developer I I

[3:23:36] I think getting stuck is the wrong word yeah it's just Cost you know in my in my business when when when we do when we perform a service work we charge for that labor because we've got to be re reimbursed for it and same thing with the city if if if if if Al's out there doing a particular service for an individual or a company they need to they need to to reimburse the city for for his services and I I and and that you you pay you pay to play whatever it is and and and it and and you you got to pay for for those services and and and then you you say the developer passes it on to the to the to whoever buys that particular lot well well he does but he can only pass on as much as the the market will bear and and so it it it all works out in the end I mean I I understand your your your view mayor but I I I think you know if we're if we're going to try to be good good stewards of of the taxpayers money we we have to pass those services on right me pass that cost on mayor do you feel that some of these are incremental anyway I mean these are sort of incrementals I I I'm not against the proposed fee I'm not opposed to taking it step at a time but I'm opposed to all of it Charlotte Mr Mayor I want to make the motion that we approve the fees as presented with the exception of the final plant various and condition use and those fees go to the cost of services and then the easement fee since that's such a large gap uh the 609 that we take the proposed fee to 300 okay now which ones are you changing

[3:25:41] you're going with proposed fees ex what she has presented there with four different changes on the final plat the variance and conditional use I would like to see her take those to the cost of services and on the easement fee that we're looking at on top the estimated cost is 69 we charge 3750 she's proposing 150 I propose we take it to an even 300 which is half about half of what the actual cost is to keep it from being such a large junk I'm so sorry let me make sure I have this the final plot would go to cost of service and I'm sorry which which VAR and conditional use can you explain how you to go to cost of service take variance to $169.90 administrative excuse me conditional use to the 384962 445 that way you've closed some gaps but uh and you don't waste not waste you don't reuse your time over and over again to bring it back to us and we close some of these gaps sooner and then easement would go to 300 and the rest would be as presented yes Charlotte do you want to round those off to an even number either up or down I like even numbers it it's much easier the 384 96 take it to 385 I suggest you put that in your motion yes that is in my motion so you're saying to accept the proposed fees with the exception of those four yes sir adjusting them yes sir and if nobody likes it they can come up with their own proposal can you explain how you selected those so that we understand uh simply by looking at the amounts that are on there if you look at variance okay $170 is the cost we're charging 50 she had 75 that's just $25 uh difference that she like I said

[3:27:44] takes the time the paperwork and to adjust and bring it back to us if should go ahead and go to the 170 now I'm looking at it in the dollar amounts the conditional use it there's 385 is what it's costing them proposing to go to 375 why not go to 385 now I try to go to the full cost of service I think Every Time We Touch This we have money invested in it are you leaving the other ones alone I'm leaving the other ones as she is proposing for the proposed fee that she is proposing I'm leaving those alone and that that was my motion anybody want a second or motion I'll second and I might also just add I talked to a man yesterday that was laid off of his job they've laid off everybody except a skeleton crew all of those that had been PR moded have been demoted and all of those that stayed had taken a 20% cut in pay if they wanted to keep their job it's uh this is the wrong time to be taking very serious increases because our citizens are the ones that's having to Bear the brunt of this I don't have a problem with what Charlotte has proposed because she's just hit four and the rest of them have gone to proposed but I do have a second I do have a motion do I have any further Council discussion on this do I have any public comment on this all in favor of the motion please say I I oppose Nay Nay Nay put a 52 on it then Morgan are you clear with all those changes she yes sir okay we do also have permits and inspections before you for consideration to move through those uh for permits and inspections uh estimated cost of service for building permit residential is $249 67 I will say that the estimated cost of service as we

[3:29:47] developed it for all the other fees you can get a pretty good ballpark for what that is as it relates to permits and inspections that it really varies greatly depending on each individual service that's provided so for example a building permit residential for One customer may require a much different workload than a building resid permit residential for another customer just because of reinspection and and different things and so uh we do have an estimated cost of service uh and it is just that an estimated cost so building permit residential at an estimated cost of almost $250 the current fee is $25 Etc you know at 10 cents a square foot Etc the proposed fee is to go to $50 at uh 12 cents per square foot Etc that's uh in your background uh the building permit commercial the estimated cost of service is $562 74 proposing something very comparable here that the current fee of $50 uh go to $75 plus the additional amounts occupant change for building and fire inspection that the cost to provide that service is $77 we're proposing to go right there at $75 the commercial partial temporary occupant that cost to provide that service is almost uh $14 a current fee of $50 going to a proposed flat fee of $75 the residential partial temp temporary occupancy the cost to provide that service is $65 uh proposing to go to $50 the extension request for a temporary certificate of occupancy we're currently not charging for that we would recommend that implementing a fee of $100 as that is uh supported by the cost of service the street use we currently charge a fee of $25 we would propose a $35 fee for that the the street use cost to provide that service is just under $35 similarly for the street closure permit uh and then onto the voucher the cost to provide that service is almost $24 we're proposing to charge $20 electrical permit proposing to go to $35 very close to that cost of service

[3:31:50] plumbing inspections the cost to provide that service is $476 we would propose $35 uh mechanical permits the cost to provide that is almost $40 we would recommend to go to $35 the inspections after 4:30 p.m. that cost us about $95.95 to provide we would propose the $84 plus the additional language there and those are the cost of service uh to get into the financial impact the total if all of these were implemented the financial impact would be excuse me $122 $122,450 and you'll see that the financial impact for each of those is listed here real quick could could you go back to the last set of fees before I made my motion on the other to me those are the ones that affect your consumer your customer out there there that do things and they're they're not that far off of the actual cost so that's not where we're hemorrhaging if if I can use that word and I'll make a motion to accept the proposed fees as presented on this last for around somebody want second I just knew you would I'll second it I'll Marty do you have something want to share something I'd like discuss um with respect to the commercial and residential fees we uh worked very closely with the home builds Association they actually established their own Round Table to provide feedback and guidance to us with respect to the residential permit specifically and then subsequently we met we uh uh convened a group of commercial developers uh in addition to some folks from the Home Builders Association to help us establish framework for the fees related to commercial activities so this was very much vetted um through the the the

[3:33:53] development community and they've helped us to get to the point where we are today so it wasn't certainly done in a vacuum at all we feel very comfortable with the numbers that we presented and there should have been a letter in your packet from the Home bilders Association at least at a minimum that talked about their endorsement of the residential fees um if not certainly we can provide that to you but certainly the Home bilders Association um provided a actual copy of letter endorsing the the increase in the fees so if you have any questions about that I can not about the letter but uh get let's get lizabeth's waiting let's live Elizabeth and then you you got yours I feel the same way about this that I did the other fees I think with the exception of the actual um inspection costs I think those are pretty much in line with uh our cost of service I think that we need to go um I'll just say I think we need to get to the co the actual cost of service I think we are at at one point there's and and you don't have them up anymore so I'm kind of talking in the wind here but like on the residential and the commercial permit what you're proposing is still doesn't even get us to well it's right at 20% % will'll never get to an actual cost of service at this rate and so I I think that what we're doing here is not really serving again the individual that could be on a fixed income and is not building something new they're just trying to live we're actually asking them to subsidize this and I think that's wrong Marty I just I guess I'm kind of wondering how we got to to a cost of service that cost $250 and we Char when we're charging 25 bucks because when nobody wants to go up we're we're not charging $25 the $25 is

[3:35:57] the ba the way the the costs are are shown now in the ordinance it's $25 plus 10 cents a square foot okay so a typical permit ends up costing about $300 or so depends on the size of the house Etc uh that's for heated square footage that's what that little plus symbol that's why she said it's real hard to to determine the actual number uh it's $25 base fee plus 10 cents a square foot we are proposing that the base fee um change from $25 to $50 plus the 10 cents a square foot is going to 12 cents a square foot the letter that Patrick was referring to that the home builders were looking at they recommended that we go to 15 cents a square foot but again in looking at actual cost of service and what other cities were doing we decided to keep it at 12 cents so an actual permit at this at this level um $50 plus would probably um get us to about that cost of service now that's not reflected in in that chart because it's you know 25 plus it's kind of hard to see that so you feel that on the building permit for residential and commercial that we're actually getting to that rate that's correct that's very very misleading Al that is extremely misleading back I didn't cuz that doesn't say anything what she just said I'm sorry it was difficult to fit in the presentation but it is in the background that the proposal is to go to the $50 plus so it's $25 plus 10 cents a foot which actually is going to be what it cost us that is correct it looks like it's a difference of0 some odd dollars but yet it's actually even that is correct and the oh man that's mislead the oral chart that should be in your background it shows all of the different breakdowns so I'm ready to vote now so yeah well I'm ready I think we need to stay with the original price instead of going to proposed if that's a situation because if we go up $25 and go up 2

[3:38:00] cents we're actually going to be charging them more than what it cost but we have a motion in a second well then we can work on that but you said that if we stayed at 25 plus 10% it would actually bring in more money than cost of service and you want to go to 50 plus 12% he said and 12 would bring us I thought you said that 255+ 10 would get us right to cost I I don't right no no the the new dollars will get us right about to cost okay and and I see it is in the background it's in about the 30th page of the background is there and mayor I might mention again these these all of these fees were were discussed by the Home Builders Association and they endorsed this and they sent a letter saying so so those are fees that they reviewed on their end and brought forward to us it's not something that staff just came up with but these are residential this is not just Builders these are people that's trying to add on to their house people that's trying to add a garage these are residents that comes in so this is not just Builders and developers and I don't appreciate the way you put that in there when you took out the 10 cents per square foot that's very very misleading that was our intention including it in the background because it is quite a cumbersome process to work through this V revie it's a and in your defense it's it's there thank you for your explanation so my motion still stands is to accept the proposed changes stands been made the motion has been made it has been seconded any uh public comment on this call for the vote all in favor say I I oppose Nay put me down is a nay two nay two Nays Morgan you did a fine job explaining that uh I know that the information is in the background and we appreciate that so thank you for that okay thank you thank you Al for clarifying is that it yes sir number eight number 19 discussion and possible action regarding regulation of sexually oriented businesses councilwoman fora former yes I need some questions

[3:40:03] answered I asked a council member and some staff members and nobody knew exactly so I'm going to look at uh the uh code enforcement folks and the legal to clarify if we in St Angelo currently have an ordinance that prevents the a business that is sexually oriented from operating within the city limits of St Angelo no we have a regulatory ordinance we can't uh prohibit what the courts Define as first amendment establish Al together we can limit through zoning which we do with 1,500 ft distance requirements um we can also to some degree regulate under the state code which we don't do in with the aspect of requiring a permit to operate a permit might set certain standards for an operation like how many employees they have to have per square foot what kind of observation they have to do what kind of health and safety inspections you know they might be subject to Etc um so we regulate location and uh under our regulations there's probably a very very limited number of potential locations especially when you get closer to the core area and that's probably reflected in the number of sexually oriented businesses that currently exist but if you get into into a major commercial area where there's no churches residences parks and that type of thing say a shopping

[3:42:06] center the potential is there but um under any ordinance like we couldn't say you have to be 1,000 from any telephone pole I mean that we can't adopt regulations that eliminate all potential locations for those kind of businesses okay I'm I'm looking at Miss grinstaff because I discussed it with her because I consider her my zoning and and you know Guru on this and the question being that I assumed that St Angelo city of St Angelo had an ordinance that uh did not require the sale of x-rated materials you know videos and stuff within the city limits of St Angelo and numerous people thought that but what you just told me is that's not so right that would what you're talking about is whether or not that would qualify the business as a sexually oriented retail sale business MH um then it would come within the parameters of the zoning regulations that it has to be certain distances from other kinds of developments okay um then I'm going to just be even more explicit why how does that cover and entail the filming of x-rated videos uh in a business where the location of that business uh you would be talking about an activ and that would depend on on whether whether or not the the the actual filming or the the ex let's just call it the exposure the sexually oriented aspect of it was uh like open to the public and being dispensed at that time or if it was something that was being privately created but not

[3:44:09] dispensed at that location and not a public entertainment thing at that location and all that's required is a state permit to do the business well I don't believe there's a state permit that's required there's there are Penal Code Provisions that could come into play depending upon you know what what takes place Charlotte and we do have of course Rebecca did her research pertaining to the regulations that we have on our books um that deal with sexually oriented businesses and she's here to present that information I was well to make sure that we're clear on what that regulation is as well I would like to be clear okay sir not the no sir please ma'am yes ma'am Supreme Court has dictated that any legal or lawful use cannot be prohibited by any municipality the city of St Angelo's zoning ordinance when it established the following use adult entertainment Enterprises SL sexually oriented businesses it created eight sub use categories within that use so the big use is called adult entertainment Enterprises slobs and then eight categories contained there within within those eight categories nowhere within those eight categories does it talk about the filming of um individuals um in a partially or fully unclothed State on private property so the state of Texas currently through the Texas commission of the of film which is under the governor's office does not require permit for any filming done on private property regardless of the um state of undress or lack thereof of any individual as long as on private property and by consensual adults on state property or public property a permit is required so to summarize there is no permit required per the state of Texas nor is there a permit with Tom Green County nor is there a permit with the city of Stan Angelo and as long as

[3:46:13] the practices are being done on private property by consensual adults are not available to the public for their enjoyment they may proceed without having to obtain a a permit and it will be consistent with the zoning ordinance of the city okay so correct me if I'm wrong your answer to me is if I receive and I did a constituent complaint of adult filming activities going on and an office a location Town they're perfectly legal the state of Texas doesn't require permit we don't require a permit and as long as it's by consensual consensual adults over the age of 18 on private property no permit is required nor is it regulated by the zoning ordinance it's a tough question to answer to someone when you really don't know sure and you may not uh I may not morally agree to it but it's a question that more than one or two people have heard gotten the same rumors of a business downtown here and I couldn't answer it so it's been answered for the public I I feel like I've done what I can do to advise where our limitations are in Authority if that is correct that's all I needed okay let's move on Rebecca you handle that very well thank you thank you thank you Rebecca very much thank You' number 20 is consideration of and possible action on matters discuss an executive closed session if needed uh there was nothing in the one that I attended was there anything on the other one no we're good nothing needs to be said number 21 is consideration of approving various board nominations by Council and designated council members construction board Chris Carnell smd5 to an unexpired term February 26 move to approve second do have a motion to approve in a second further Council

[3:48:16] discussion do I have discussion from the public all in favor please say I I oppose Nay put a 70 on it number 22 is announcements consideration the future agenda start with you Elizabeth uh I don't have any um agenda items I think uh in our packet this last week we did get some information on our our requests and where they are and I really do appreciate that I think it's very helpful uh just a reminder that I have a neighborhood chat on June 22 that's going to be at St Mark Presbyterian and James Flores and Bob Solace will be our featured guest to talk about animal control code enforcement and anything else that's on our residents Minds Lucy did you have anything ma'am yes okay listen up Johnny um listen up Johnny what I'm wanting to propose or try to find out is if if it's possible for us to look into the possibility of getting welcome signs in our entrance point of entrance at our in our city like the signs that say welcome to sangela not a post not a billboard or anything but actually a sign that's what I'm wanting to see we'll we'll talk about that okay Charlotte well yes I need some information uh not necessarily a future Council but uh if staff could look one uh in our permit and planning whenever a commercial business is building and their required to do a retention Pond uh if that retention Pond completion is before the construction after the construction and who follows up to see that that's been done we've had a lot of commercial building out in my part of the area that Retention Ponds required and they've not been completed and I need someone to follow up and look at that for me another thing is I know we don't get rain too often but we sure are thankful when we get it and I'm not complaining however storm water uh a lot of landscaping that go to the rocks or the crush ganed or the gravel or

[3:50:18] whatever if they're not contained some way in a border in the yard they're out in the street and intersections and now water can't flow because there's a half foot of gravel and rock andc and so forth if somebody could look at how maybe we could prevent that in the future or a simple way I would appreciate it uh and the other item as I had asked Daniel that look at to our how we handle our siren situation and I visited with you Friday with reference to maybe a challenge as to how to come up with a dial that the citizens can dial three numbers and get a recording as to whether it's high wind a tornado or hail and I would like to see U Anthony or or Brian come up with a 723 that's s Angelo emergency that's SAE or a 342 emergency information activation which they would get a recording automatically when they hit those numbers that said yeah there is a tornado or and that takes calls off of our 911 and helps the citizens communicate that maybe their uh tv antenna has been blown down or something of that nature if someone could look into that for me we have a presentation on that item uh next city council meeting charlot will include topic on that okay that's all I have okay Johnny do you have any thanks just a final reminder of T Hall meeting for myself and Daniel and Company 6:00 Thursday St Mary's Catholic Church gymnasium Marty not at this time Rodney just wanted to remind everybody to go to the petsafe.net that last 15,000 yes Marty I am declaring the drought officially over I would like to to ask if if Carl could uh make room in his schedule Rick don't shoot me uh with reference to the

[3:52:21] dog park you know young Miss Megan has done a tremendous amount of work to keep this thing going alive and getting Amy and look at what we could do where we could do it and maybe call it Megan's Park move to a journ second all in favor I meeting's over

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=keeqpEK9RAQ