Streets and Drainage update - City Council Strategic Planning Workshop 5-31-22

[0:00:01] all right mayor get started here um of course we've already touched base on some of this stuff but kind of give you an update on on where we are and and what's going on in the world of of drainage uh throughout town uh of course haven't had to worry a whole lot about that this year but uh in years past uh had had some issues uh out there and so uh i believe it was three years ago three or four years ago that we added the drainage component into um into our into our priorities and so as we as we went back and we looked at it and took a took a look at our master drainage plan from 2000 we had started some work in that of course you know drainage is one of those issues that there's not any dedicated funding for that it's as we can find funding either through if excess sales tax or whatever those what wherever those fundings come from or grant funds that's when we uh start working on drainage and of course as we are doing going through our going through our street plans in in the bond projects and other projects if we can incorporate those drainage improvements within those projects we're doing it at that time so as we as we look on here some of our recent accomplishments where the east angelo drop bell street we were able to accommodate that within the bell street design and so we were able to take care of that and then also the avenue p detention basin we were again through grant funding and through some storm water funds and through actually some excess sales tax that had been set aside um probably about eight or nine years ago we were able to finish and complete this project and so uh working through that and and have got that done we're also of course uh we we talked about it a little bit ago um with the college hills project we're we're taking care of uh some of the drainage issues there and

[0:02:03] we're not going to be able to completely solve all the problems especially at the arroyo but we are looking at significant underground drainage getting that water underneath from the loop all the way to the south fork of the red arroya getting that water off of the street i believe the capacity that we have designed to or were able to design two would hold a 25-year event underneath the street and so again that will help tremendously during rain events in the college hills project and of course you know we looking at some other uh getting designs ready we talked about the foster road project a while ago trying to get something shelf ready for in case we get some hazard mitigation grants and things like that as well too and of course again we're continuing to in one of the other projects that we're working on that was identified in the original one currently is the lower crossing at southwest by the mcdonald's in councilman miller's district so we're working through that as well too as part of the road road reconstruction project and so we're trying we're addressing some of these as we go go along so again but it's it's a slow slow process we did work with an engineering firm to update our 2000 master drainage plan so we did get that we do have that updated we ranked the top 36 problem areas around town some of those were areas that we that were identified separately in the old plan that we combined and kind of created some new looks to them and we went through that and of course developed uh developed a plan for how a possible solution for 10 of those problems the top 10 of those areas and got got opinions of probable cost on what those possible solutions would look like estimate estimated 60 million dollars to in the opinion of probably cost four to get those um to where again none of them are going to be ever

[0:04:07] completely 100 percent fixed but again to at least provide a lot of relief in those areas in those 10 areas and of course again no designated funding but as we find those dollars whether that's through grants or other opportunities we will again try to address those in as and if any of them are street related as we as we address those streets like we have in the past we'll continue to to address those so that's kind of a quick rundown on the drainage and kind of moving into the streets we we talked through this quite a bit a while ago but just a little bit of history in 2015 uh we we worked with uh fugro roadware inc uh to come in and do a con straight condition survey for us they they surveyed every street in town they gave us a payment condition index score for each street and we worked with them to prioritize our bond projects that we're working through right now and they uh went through you know and it it was a it was a process of looking at the condition of the of the road the classification whether it was an arterial or a collector and then also our average daily traffic as we work through that and so as we went through that we've got that done with that city council authorized the funding of 80 million over 10 years so every other year we're we're allocating 16 million in bond allocations to to our uh reconstruction and rehabilitation projects and and we're going down that list went through a lot of them a while ago and then of course two back then council did increase our operation and maintenance budget uh to help us address the sealcoating program uh to where we can we're touching a street we're still coating the street at least once every eight years and so to actually start a more robust

[0:06:11] maintenance program that what we've had in the past and then we do we set aside about a half a million dollars a year for a crack sealing program pothole repair small constructions alley maintenance those type of things is kind of where we set aside our the funding for that as well and the study the fugro study that was done in 2015 obviously we've had a lot of development and a lot of construction going on since 2015. is there anything in that 2015 presentation prioritization of those streets is there anything that's changed that you think needed to be moved up or moved down based off of new traffic flow or traffic patterns based off of construction and development right now we're the streets the majority of the streets are in the prioritization list i believe still still are deserving to be where they're at with the new development we haven't seen a lot of actual traffic movement i think there there could be some things in the future that happen that that could cause some movement of traffic but currently right now our traffic patterns are remaining relatively steady other than we are building a lot of new residential roads we're not seeing a lot of new arterials or collectors coming in and so that's where you're going to see the majority of your heavy traffic and your deterioration taking place and so i think right now the the the existing path that we're on is uh is still a very viable path so i think we're i think we're still heading in the right direction with that um just a quick recap again uh completed projects mlk boulevard uh the southland by the sam's club college hills um south of loop 306 to valley view has been redone west concho avenue and then of course bell street is completed active project southwest boulevard the chadron street downtown uh real console drive and college hills boulevard has just started it's just underway with the

[0:08:14] utility portion right now uh coming up soon we have the chadron street downtown phase two uh of course we talked about this while ago the north chavern from basically the railroad tracks their fifth street all the way to 43rd howard street again and getting close to final design edma edmond glenna 29th kind of midway through design sunset just now fixing to get started on that one in design phase and then cristoval road uh you will be seeing uh an item on this next council meeting to authorize the design of cristoval road uh looking at also looking at to apply for a decept grant for that christopher road project as well too so that we'll have that uh coming also before you at this next council meeting to apply for that grant yes tommy quick question shane um on the christopher road is that from chadburn avenue l or is that avenue l all the way out to where it hooks up with the 270 or with 87 what this this portion is from chadburn to avenue l that's the portion that the city owns from chadburn to 87 277 is still belongs to the state state loop 378 and the state is currently uh they're they're planning on letting that bid for reconstruction in september so uh at some point that will that will be widened and reconstructed from south chadron to 277. is it part of the project will any any kind of curbing be done on christopher road chadwind avenue l some some of it does not have curb curbing curbing gutter carbon goods that will be part of the in the design phase we will be working with the engine engineering design firm to determine uh from the drainage aspect of it because there are quite a few drainage issues in that area as well too uh probably needing to to widen the road in certain areas and then of course add

[0:10:18] we're looking at adding some shared use pedestrian pathways along that segment as well too and so when we look at that some of that will require curving gut or some of it may not uh but they're more than likely we will see some uh new curving gutter going in just thinking you know it may greatly extend the life of the roadway obviously if it wasn't revelation yes yes okay thanks um you had some questions so shane you talk a lot about some is city property some county property some state property do we have any input on where the state prioritizes what they do next through our mpo uh the mpo board that we have uh we do work closely with txdot in that group too uh they actually we identify areas that uh in the states we can paint them together and make sure we're all yes we're all on the same page and we're all heading in the same direction meet every other month and each of those streets or projects is discussed funding is moved around if for some reason something becomes like need to do it so you'll get some phone calls sometime and there's like that state property that's not ours similar to me and patrick had an issue with uh a sign inside the city limits but anyway you answered my question thank you and maintenance and they're and we don't necessarily on their maintenance dollars we don't have a lot of input on their maintenance dollars but a lot of their construction or and or some sometimes their reconstruction we do have quite a bit of input as well through the mpo so are the questions on for shane at this point from any other council member all right keep going okay and then just briefly uh you know we did touch base on some of those the year 10 projects they're not on this list but we did touch base on those in in our previous cip discussion as well too so just to let uh let y'all know there and so uh kind of changing uh that's kind of the quick update for the drainage quick update on

[0:12:20] the streets and kind of where we are and where we're going of course we did we talked about the the seal coat that we're going to have come up again this year so we talked about that already so uh one thing that we wanted to bring up today is funding sources if you'll remember council for the last several years we've we've talked about you know the importance of streets in the infrastructure and and trying to address it and how we're going to address it and so and council has um has done an amazing job of of working with staff to get us the funding that we need to really get started and really get working on it of course you know i know that each of y'all because um y'all in turn will call and visit with us y'all are you know continuously getting phone calls from citizens about streets and and prioritizing streets in in and trying to move move this forward and move our street program forward and of course we we as staff want to be uh we'd much rather be proactive in this than reactive and so for years and years i mean we've kind of been in reactive mode and we're wanting to switch that into a proactive mode and so as we're moving forward you know we want to talk about funding and and i think council has given us that direction in the past to look for alternative ways uh to fund things and so we have we've gone out there and we and we've looked at multiple options and things like that and uh you know currently when we look at our current funding sources uh we have the bond bond project of course we're fixing a bond um uh the fourth of the out of five of our bond projects and so we'll have this one in two years we'll have the last one and so you know within the next four years we're going to kind of that's going to kind of be on the downhill slide of all the projects being completed and coming to completion and then you know we do have our own our annual o m maintenance that we've used for maintenance for the sealcoat program and and for uh other daily activities and and then we did city council last year um in last budget uh adopted the uh was that

[0:14:21] .006 is that what you said tina out of the out of that and dedicated that out of um out of the property tax um for funding for the streets and so that's kind of where we are right now from a from a a funding standpoint right now and how we're funding and how we're moving forward we have established a strategy for doing the major streets and then some of the artillery streets so there is a game plan and a time frame as just you proposed almost um 448 million dollars worth of projects that are out there so we have spent tremendous amount of money on streets over the past four years we've made it a key priority we have made that a priority that says if we have money we're going to give it to streets first because that has been one of the biggest issues that that citizens have had with the city is the lack of maintaining our streets and so we have made that a key priority and the in the you know and again we're it has been a priority and and and city council has really stepped up and and worked with staff to try to find those funds so we can move move forward as we're going on and of course uh the one thing that we do are the grants that we're looking looking at you know we've been we've been working uh quite a bit with txdot here recently um in our um in the in their safety program the road to zero program and some of that stuff we're looking at uh some signalization upgrades of course mostly that's on system with txdot but again we are responsible here in town for the maintenance of those of those structures in those lights and so but working with them in that project as well from grants we're also we've been webinar after webinar after webinar about the infrastructure bill that's come down from the federal government and so again we believe the grant granting opportunities are going to become more viable as we

[0:16:23] move into the next three four five years and so really kind of working through working through those and making sure that we do have ma the matching funds that it's going to take and require to to get those grants as we move forward so but again it just makes our local dollars go that much further when we can when we can get that influx of federal dollars with it and and we talked last year if you all will remember last year when we were at the street strategic planning meeting we brought we brought a an idea to city council for a street use fee um and so as we as we did that and we looked at the and we looked at that last year and we talked through it kind of in a very high level to look at the proposed street use fee um you know council council gave staff direction uh to kind of delve into it a little bit further and see what that could look like for the city of san angelo and and and what that uh and what that could possibly be and so we did that and so we have we have uh we engaged kimberly horn an engineering uh design firm uh we're an engineering firm that that has specialized well and i would say specialized but they have done done several of these and worked with several other municipalities around to to establish these street use fees here are some of the examples of the other other cities somewhat similar size some smaller definitely like snyder and then of course corpus christi and some of those that are much bigger and but as we look at them uh they're so they're it's kind of across the board is the is what the cities are doing and what through and how they're starting to engage in these type of street use fees um and the one that we kind of we looked at fairly closely was abilene and and we brought that to y'all's attention last year abilene is the one that uh is probably the closest to to not only you know and i guess in a physical relationship but also in size and and kind of how they're set up and

[0:18:24] how they work and so we looked at theirs we looked at their program that they initiated um and and have visited with them and talked to them about the successes that they are seeing with their program uh and basically they use theirs as a to get started in the maintenance is to where our city council had had stepped up several years before that with our maintenance program and so abilene is using theirs as a maintenance program but they've they have seen that as such a success that they're actually looking to maybe want to expand their program into more of a uh to expand it to start addressing uh rehabilitation and reconstruction of their roadways as well too not just maintenance so as we look at that you know we're seeing we're seeing other communities that are uh that have that have implemented this and and are seeing definite benefits across uh across their cities as they move forward um you know and kind of going through it and kind of some of the benefits that we see from city staff as we're looking at it you know you know it continues to to provide that funding you know we know we're going to get to the end of the bond funding before long and then trying to figure out you know what's that next step then and and so and how are we going to continue this program and try to get on the proactive side instead of the reactive side of street construction street maintenance and as we look at it you know one you know one of the things that city council has been adamant on is not increasing property tax and so we do not want to increase the property tax and so as well and i mean that's from you know uh not only you know when you know the economic development guys and guy and his bunch when they're going out and michael looney and his bunch when they're going out and trying to bring businesses in you know uh if if businesses are seeing your property taxes increase increase increase you know they're not going to be enticed or want to come to town and so again there's multiple reasons for for not increasing the property tax tax rate uh to address this as well and two and you know there are concerns about

[0:20:26] how much debt you know we're adding to our books and we don't want to continue to keep adding debt so this fee would be one way one possible way not to do that not to add debt not to increase your property tax rate and as you're going through the um you know and and some of the things that we could do with these funding um that's possible you know kind of how we set up right now councils kind of set somewhere between four and five million is kind of would be a target for us to look at and so that's kind of the target that we've worked through and patrick here in a minute is going to kind of go through the inner workings of how this how would work and how it would look uh but as we're going through this and we're looking you know one of our thoughts is to bring in a in-house mill and overlay crew if we're going to actually get out i mean because we cannot i don't believe my it's my personal opinion i do not believe that we could ever borrow enough money to address every street in town but if we start bringing some of this in-house and we can start directing it in-house and i believe we can do this a lot of this work especially the rehabilitation portion of it i believe we can do a lot of that in-house at a lower cost and more efficiently and bringing that in-house will also give us flexibility to go where we need to go when we need to go versus being tied to a contract uh that being said there are going to be those things that we are not going to be able to do in house of reconstruction full depth reconstruction or the fdr process that we that we're doing out here on bell street those are things when roads have failed we're not going to be able to rehabilitate those so this money could also be pay-as-you-go capital to contract out some of those services that we're still not going to be on it or we're not going to be able to do in-house and then also when we're looking at it uh being able to one possibly as we're looking at these granting opportunities give us a source for uh match money for these grants because a lot of these grants are going to come out are going to be 80 20 matches or 70 30 matches and we are

[0:22:28] going to have to have dollars here in the city for us to be able to take advantage of those grand dollars so again it does that and then two with the street use it it is it's it's it's based on um trip it's based on a trip factor and trip generators and so when you apply it in that manner across the board it's it's equitable across all land uses all business types in all sectors of the community so when you look at it from that it's a more equitable way of putting or basically acquiring the funding you need to take care of the degradation of the payment you know based on how much it's you know the the the how much money you're generating will be based off your trip generation how many if you're a business how many you know and patrick will go through the details here in just a second just kind of a high level view here but uh if your business you know typically generates you know 5 000 trips a day you're you know you're going to be paying more than somebody that you know only generates five trips a day so again again it's it's the the the trip generation and the degradation of the pavements kind of it's kind of linear in how how it's set up and designed and so as we move across we will let patrick kind of chime in here and start and kind of go through the details of how this program would work let's stop right now and just see if council has any questions that they want to ask at this point in the presentation before patrick takes over oh please yeah i don't fundamentally disagree with this concept and i don't think anyone else up here does although i won't speak for them but i think that the elephant in the room is that the community needs to be be

[0:24:30] brought along slowly on any kind of cost increase especially right on the heels of their tax bills so i think my concern is one of timing and i just want to put that out there so that it's part of the conversation i don't know how we address that i don't know if it's a town hall but i think that council needs to hear what the public has to say about this and of course we all understand that the amount that will be added potentially to our bills is the cost of a hamburger and a coke but there's something about the fact that it's news right now after news that was startling to a lot of people yes ma'am and and again this is we're bringing this just as a proposal and it was it was something we've been asked to look at over time again we presented it last year yes part of our strategic planning and it was at that point in time we said just continue to pursue it so meaning we don't have enough information to start immediately but continue to pursue it and the other issue which you can address in a minute and when you get through with this is somehow because it's proposed that it would be on the water bill everybody thinks it's water increases just as people look at that water bill and think it's expensive water but what it is it's many things on that water bill because it's the water it's the sewer it's the trash and it's storm water and so the reason for using the water bill as the means of which to charge folks if you will can you explain that and the reason behind that yes ma'am we it'll well we can touch on it here in a minute we have a it kind of whenever it's suppressed okay and we can address that but again it does it's uh one the utility bill is already established where it's already an established uh means by which we send out a bill every month instead of creating you know four

[0:26:33] bills or five bills that we're sending out we just put all the utilities that we charge on one statement so it's ease of that and then also if if they're if if if if it's not set up correctly there's no way to um there's no way to think um there's no way no way to collect uh to collect on that in in such a manner that it's um enforceable basically and so again we have to have that set up in the way we do it and again there again there is no specific time or nothing we're just bringing this forward for council for council to look at forgive us feedback is it good is it bad i mean do you not like how it's set up or the way it's set up and so again we're just trying to garner feedback right now not necessarily try to you know we're not taking a vote today this is a presentation only an opportunity to learn more to ask the questions so that you can answer your constituents issues or challenges or uh explain it better so use this as a learning situation for all of us and we and and again we'll kind of go through some more things and we definitely do need council's feedback on some of these items as well too because again we're we're still we're not it we're not at the we're not at the final stages of this we're still we're still kind of mid-level uh working through the details and so again we need to get council feedback and work our way through erie do you have a question or comment i just have a comment uh and that is i think the proposed uh direction that we're going with this if we decide to do this has a lot of benefits first of all we can we can put some city employees back on the roads doing what streets doing what we what i think we can do from a maintenance standpoint and small reconstruction that will save the taxpayers dollars in the long run and so from my perspective this investment i think will pay benefits

[0:28:36] so i think the concept whether we stay with 675 or some of those other numbers is is not anything i'm worried about discussing today but i think the concept will ultimately save taxpayer dollars and so i think it's a good concept lucy i just have a quick question uh shane how did you come up with 675 we based a lot of what we did off of other cities numbers that we were that not only we looked at but also our consultant looked at and so these numbers are based a lot on what other cities are doing so uh and again some of them are tweaked a little bit some of our numbers are tweaked a little bit to kind of work for the city and kind of what council's target number was for us to look at and so some of those numbers are tweaked but again we based a lot of this stuff on what other cities have already done and established he said abilene was already doing this correct and that that all those list of cities i had up on the screen yes are currently in the program my question is and how how much money are they bringing in say for instance just happily per year i believe that i believe they've been doing it i think their dollar amount per person is larger than this proposal but i think six to seven million abilene's bringing in right at 5 million just over 5 million on there with their fee and again theirs is for maintenance activity so they're chip seal and stuff like that so that's what they're bringing in but and again as we kind of go through the workings of kind of how we have it laid out and based on based on input from our consultant that we worked with uh and again based on what again what we saw in other cities because abilene i believe is 675 does that work ability 675 that's exactly where they're at and so uh that's exactly where they're at in in other cities and every city has their own nuances to their program and so you kind of you kind of define your program based on the needs of your city and how their city councils wanted it set up so

[0:30:41] they instituted it about three years ago and they've gone back and they're updating it and going back for i think larger dollars and more comprehensive thing so they're on their second round of implementing a change to it something like that yep they're they're they're starting to look again as i mentioned earlier they they they've had or they feel they've had such success that with this program that they want to actually expand the program that they have into a rehabilitation and reconstruction program as well a lot like what we were starting to do with our bond funding and so and again but i think as we start looking at some of these uh like um harry stated just a minute ago uh you know bringing some of these these things back in house and doing some of those maintenance activities that we can do in-house you know just looking at what four to five million dollars a year could do somewhere in that range um i think of it you know i think of it in individual streets and not everybody may be familiar with the street but if you look at look at avenue l or avenue j one of those type streets and that act is a minor collector uh in the santa rita neighborhood if you look at something like that you know if we do brought an in-house crew kind of with those kind of funds available you know we could probably see doing an entire street section like that four or five times over in a year so you're starting to see some of those minor collectors and some of those smaller roads within our within our neighborhoods that handle a lot of daily traffic to where we can improve those we could do improvements in-house uh and again we could do a lot more and again the flexibility of it is is what i think is so key to that so i think the toughest not to correct to crack on this is equitability and i think you're taking some information from abilene on how you divide up this pie so that the public feels as though it's done fairly across the board i'd suspect that

[0:32:46] the next meeting we have and people are talking about that in public that's where we're going to get some important inputs about how they think this ought to be handled in terms of who's paying what sir and patrick's facing to get into that so it'll kind of show and break down how all that works and so i'll let patrick take it away right so after our strategic planning workshop last year we did engage with kimberly horn like shane was talking about and started to develop a fee structure that was something that for san angelo and and how our uniqueness so what they developed was a structure that basically had two categories you had a residential category and you had a non-residential category so on your screen there you're looking at the residential side of the of the pie here so for a single family residential which is a typical home you'd be looking at a at a flat rate of six dollars and 75 cents per month on the other side there's multi-family as part of that residential and so you're talking about apartment complexes town homes duplexes in that category and and what the consultants proposed was six dollars per dwelling unit on that so if an apartment complex has a hundred apartments it'd be six times a hundred per month for that particular apartment complex so that's the residential side so the residential side is very very easy and easy to understand but for non-residential what we didn't want to do is just propose a flat fixed rate for for resid like we did on residential properties because the sheer range of different properties and commercial entities in san angelo just warranted a range of categories and fee structures as well on that so along with that there's a calculation that we used in order to determine exactly what fee a particular entity would be charged so based starting with that we we reached back to a nationally published manual the institute of traffic engineers trip generation manual that's a big name and it's a big book so

[0:34:50] basically what that book does is it goes in and it categorizes every type of business in the united states and for each of that type of business they generally tag a number in there for the amount of trips that that particular uh business type would generate and so as the easy way to understand this is to walk through an example with you and so that's kind of what we have on our screen so let me kind of talk you through how that that equation plays out so if you look at a particular entity and and we start with the business classification so in this case we're looking at like a restaurant a gym a salon something like that so you see there's a gem up there and that is then classified into a land use category that is stemmed from that it that ite manual the land use category again goes takes it from a gym to a health or fitness club from there that land use category within that same manual you have a development unit so for each land use category there's there's a multiplier or development unit in there so whether that's square footage whether that's number of acres whether that's number of fueling items whatever that particular business classification is and it's in its niche that has a particular development unit so in the case of a gym it's based on per square feet so per thousand square feet you have a trip factor and so that's the number of trips that's generated per thousand square feet for that particular gym so if you do the math kind of there for example 3 000 square foot gym classified as an athletic club 3 000 divided by the thousand thousand per square feet gives you three times the trip factor 4.52 gives you a multiple a sum of 13.56 so then you move over into that fee schedule over there and there's a there's a range there between the 10 and 15 that that 13.56 falls within classified as a c3 which ultimately is

[0:36:54] 45 there now there's a table all the way to the right there that kind of that we use that the consultants came up with as a way to expand that into the larger entities so you're really talking about your higher use category so if we didn't have the multiplier you're looking at a 75 dollar max fee as proposed right now but what that multiplier does is you take it and anything between as it's shown on the screen there zero and three or zero and 300 would be multiplied by one between 300 and 600 would be multiplied by two so 75 150 dollars 225 dollars is kind of how that plays out based on what the consultants came up with when they looked at san angelo they took the tens of thousands of different business types that are in this manual and they pared down that down to 46 land use categories that basically encompass almost every business entity in san angelo so every non-residential entity would be classified underneath one of these 46 land use categories that the that the consultants proposed so moving on to that these are the rates that that were proposed initially by them what you see there is you see your you have your residential at six 6.75 and six they're at the bottom and then in the non-residential categories there's basically six tiers there ranging from twenty five dollars to seventy five dollars that multiplier table off to the right and ultimately there's an annual revenue generation under these proposed rates of about four and a half million dollars if you look at the residential

[0:38:57] generation obviously it would be interesting to know what kind of the numbers are behind it so if you look for each one of those tiers in each one of those categories the number of customers the proposed rate there kind of what a monthly and an annual revenue would be for each tier and then we we as staff wanted to kind of give council an insight into if we wanted to discuss or if they wanted to look at adjusting those rates in some manner kind of what a dollar would do on the residential side and what five dollars would do on the non-residential side whether that's increasing by a dollar or decreasing a dollar that would be a plus or minus both monthly and annually there in that far right column there were three entities that the consultants carved out as far as large land use categories based on san angelo specifically the airport goodfellow air force base and the san angelo stock show and rodeo association so based on a calculation and a methodology that they had come up with for those three entities those would be billed on an annual basis at 3 500 dollars per month 30 000 and 1050 respectively as proposed talk about those because of the large land mass that they are my if you'll go back to that the question mark is okay so how would that compare to for example the school sisd as well as angelo state university because they too would be considered large yes ma'am land yes ma'am we'll uh we have a slide further on we'll we'll visit with y'all to try to get some feedback from y'all on those uh because the schools they look at the schools a little differently and so most well almost all of them ha charge like a per student on a per student basis

[0:40:59] and so again we will look at that in a few more slides sorry the reason some of that would become an issue is because if you take a look at elementary school and middle schools they don't drive those students no ma'am but their parents do their parents do but so that's the reason i ask too is if you start taking and breaking it down into thought processes those would be some of the things that you would ask yes or think about and again that's why we we're looking this is not necessarily individuals but looking at it as based on trip generation uh and that's the key to this is the trip generation and and what does that entity or what does that school or or whatever it is what what do they how many what is their trip generation look like and so uh again that's that's how we're basing this on and so um because whether it's an elementary school or a junior high even though those children aren't driving if y'all been around one of the schools that drop off time or pick up time it's it's amazing how many vehicles are out there to pick up the kids and so and of course and then the bus is also traveling on the roads as well too again generating that degradation of the pavement so and so some of the other components that we looked at in this and of course we want council's feedback on this uh or some of these things you know and and just to kind of let you know we are going to create a grievance process for this not necessarily the about what it is or how much it is that's a council decision but again when we look at [Music] as from staff and or our consultants we do not necessarily know i'm just going to mayor we don't know what brenda gunter inc is and so it's not descriptive and so we don't necessarily know what land use

[0:43:01] category to put that in and so we are going to have those where we're going to have people come say hey i'm not in this group i need to be in this group and so a lot of those and so that's what the grievance process is for is so they can come to us that hey i i don't belong down here in this one i belong up here in this one and so we'll do that and of course most of these uh it will be resolved at the department review level and so but if it if it escalates above that we we are going to have the city auditor review it and provide feedback and guidance there and if that is still unsatisfactory to to the to the citizen or the business then we would have the city manager as the final um uh final process in the review of that and so to to do it again we believe that uh we believe that uh almost all if i can't i can't see that you know once we once we get to know what the business is and how it acts and what it looks like and basic base it on that information that we receive i don't know why it would ever have to escalate beyond the department review but again just in case it does there is a process in place i also want to really uh emphasize this is that this these monies would be in a separate fund and they would be restricted to basically the rehabilitation reconstruction and maintenance of roadway elements and those elements are you know the road base the road itself curb and gutter sidewalks uh traffic signals uh pedestrian elements all of those things would and that's all that these funds could be used for they couldn't be used in water they can't be used in general services they can't be used anything but on the streets themselves and so which the other issue that i think we should emphasize here is that that would also not change and we wouldn't eliminate the dollars that's in operations and may or the funds that we already put into street construction as we said sealcoating's 3.5 million 500 000 for

[0:45:04] potholes etc so we're saying that we would continue funding those as their funding so let's say we would put 404 million dollars into the budget for like we have been doing that's right right correct so we're not taking that away what we're doing is adding this would be an addition to it in addition to it so that we could do it faster quicker more efficiently and less costly correct and and we would and we would not mingle these these funds these dedicated funds we would not mingle these with our traditional operation and maintenance funds they would still remain separate and so the accounting and the uh the accountability would be there that we are using these funds where they're supposed to be used which is on the streets and so i want to you know wanted to make sure that everybody understands that that there will be no co-mingling of of of this fund with any of the other ones as well too so uh and then again as we visited about earlier signing it to the existing utility bill again to help with that enforcement in the collection of the bill again it gives it gives the city ability to to actually collect and also work through our collection system that we have with the utility statement some of the things as we that we need to consider as we're looking at this uh is as we look into the future we all know uh you know uh that um everything the cost of doing business goes up yearly uh and here lately it's been going up exponentially our dollars don't go as far as they used to so at some time in the future if y'all decide to implement a program like this one of the things we would know is kind of what would you want to look at from an escalation period would we want to uh you know staff would recommend doing it on a percentage basis and whether we base that on some consumer pricing index a municipal price index or cost index

[0:47:06] something or one that's related to actual road maintenance itself one of the indices that are out there with a percentage cap on top of that would we want to look at something like that would we just want a fixed annual rate at some whatever that is at two and a half three percent whatever it is kind of what we would consider a general inflation rate um and then also you know would you want to start that type of uh rate escalation you're two your three your four you're five how far out would you want to take the program before we actually started looking at increasing this fee to accommodate for um for that um for basically the inflation that that we know we're going to see over time so that's something to consider as we looking into this and and hope to get feedback at some point um another thing that staff would recommend is also for a low low income accommodation uh is to utilize what we're using in with our water utility currently uh is adding funding into the low low income assistance program through the concho valley action agency um and that way if people are having problems paying their bills or covering their bills or the cost of this is that they can seek uh assistance um that that from this agency that that works with with low-income people on a regular basis to help them pay their bills and so we would recommend that as well again would like y'all's feedback on that as well too uh one of the things that we that we wanted to bring to your attention is the apartments uh when you look at um when you look at this when you look at apartments when you have a hundred units or 200 units or 250 units times six dollars that's that starts becoming very burdensome on upfront um and you know a lot of those apartments uh in people like that you know they're in con you know they're in six months or year-long contracts and so they're locked in and so for them to absorb that cost all at once um

[0:49:10] would be considerable and and so we want to make sure that uh you know but we would as staff recommend a phased approach to where maybe we do fifty percent uh year one and then a hundred percent year two to allow them to build into their contracts as those contracts come up for renewal uh to help cover those costs uh on the apartments as well too and then finally we start talking about schools um and again we look at schools sasd tlc cornerstone asu howard et cetera uh all of the schools uh when we look at that most every most everyone else is is charging a per student basis instead of a flat per campus or whatever because every everything and everybody varies and so by size and so they they've looked at a per student basis and so when we looked at this kind of to give y'all basically let you all look at this and kind of give us direction as to what y'all feel is appropriate for schools we looked at anywhere from 60 cents per student to 1.15 per student and you can kind of see what the uh annual generation revenue generation would be for uh for that and this is based on snazzle isd's uh enrollment numbers this last year so that's kind of what uh first nasal isd that's kind of what this would look at and and when we look at that you know these type of dollars those are pretty significant for somebody to immediately absorb into a budget and so we would also recommend a phased approach for our schools out there as well too [Music] you know 50 year 100 in year two if council has other ideas we would love to hear those as well too but again to allow these schools and and people time to build this fee into their budgets uh because again it's uh that's a pretty substantial uh dollar figure just to all of a sudden be plugging into a budget one day especially if they're on a different fiscal time frame than we are as well and with that i think that kind of wraps up the

[0:51:13] um the funding in the in the fee proposal so again we would love love y'all's feedback and any questions comments and i'll start with larry do you have questions or comments for them are there any entities that are exempt from this as it currently stands larry no we're not proposing any entities that are exempt per se but again that's that council's discretion and consideration so we would look for that feedback from council but these numbers are taken into account all residential and non-residential entities currently that include that includes the city i mean right uh the city departments or city entities we would all uh within that our different funds would would also contribute to this as well too um because we are trip generators as well erin the implication is that this does not require voter approval can you speak to that please no ma'am this does not require voter approval this can be this can be adopted as an ordinance by city council lucy um i just have a quick question on this uh property tax that we had gotten approved talking to your mic please sorry um you know this uh property tax rate that we had approved that .006 for the street fund is that going to be combined with this rate that we have so it's all going to go in one one pot yes ma'am that dedicated source uh since it since it was dedicated by council to specifically only be used on streets that could actually be i mean we you would see it in the revenue as two different line items but we would keep that in the same fund since it is a dedicated funding source for streets only thank you erie i like the part where you talked about being a dedicated fund that could only be used for street because

[0:53:16] i've heard a lot of citizens in the last couple weeks think that we're just taking money and it can be used for whatever so when we if we make this decision and it's passed as an ordinance that part i hope will be in there that we can say hey it goes into a separate fund that can only be used for road maintenance and road construction yes sir and and i know teresa has been looking at this some as well too and unfortunately she's not here today but i believe there's state law that also has it restricted as well too so uh it wouldn't only just be in our ordinance but i believe for us to be able to pass an ordinance to to collect a fee such as this and name it a street use fee that their state law that restricts the use of those funds as well too thank you tom so harry touched on that and i think we'll roll this one over to brandon brandon there's a couple people here that brought up the fact that they thought there might be some legal issue of putting a fee on our water bill can you expand upon that i know we've kind of given you a little force out of that question yeah so the way that the both the administrative code and the water code define a water and sewer utility it has a whole laundry list of entities that are encompassed in that but it actually excludes municipal corporations so i believe it could be on the the water bill but the other point about the the commingling the funds we want to ensure that it's not a revenue generator that exceeds the cost of the program or providing those services otherwise it could be an author unauthorized tax so as long as we if there's a reasonable basis for the fee then and we're good there and my summary on this just you know we're all thrown out opinions on this i love the fact that nobody escapes this all right everybody pays everybody shares and there's no way around it and i think if all of our tax structures were based like this we would never be in this type of situation

[0:55:18] and so i'll be the first one to say i like the way this thing's going i don't think it's a burden but i do like the fact that you have already established a process if there's a grievance in here to pursue but i'm certainly open to anything further and i'm very encouraged by the process tommy i'm going to echo what karen said much earlier in the conversation i do like the concept the timing is of question to me because of everything that's going on um i don't know how we deal with that other than say we're going to bring this back in six months a year whatever i don't know what that is but the timing at least for me there's uh it just doesn't feel good doesn't feel right to me and i want to chase a rabbit just a minute and this is going to be a real chase and a rabbit shane mentioned signals and there has been an issue that has arisen and i'm not going to go down this path because i think it would be far more appropriate at the discussion of the cip but there has been a signal that has been mentioned to be removed that i think we need to discuss that but you mentioned signal so i wanted to throw that out i'm thinking the more appropriate time to talk about that is when we talk about the cip later in june no i tell you what we need to do and we'll talk about that in a minute with shane not right now i think tommy because i think the idea was that it was announced that that traffic signal was going to be pulled today that temporary light was going to be pulled today so i think the issue is we need to talk to shane outside this meeting today and say there's too many people who are opposed to that temporary light being moved from knickerbocker and twin mountain and we need to leave it there and then then at some point go ahead and get that put into the cip but we need to address the issue of not pulling it right now well i think it's the the the signal is

[0:57:20] in the cip we just need to find the instruct the staff to find the funding so again that's another another day another discussion but when you said signals a minute ago it triggered my triggered my thought process so if they're out there moving it now stop them they're not they're not moving it they're they just bagged the bag the heads there's a process for moving even temporary signals and so we were we just started that process the trailers are still there so there's a lot of opposition to we'd like to see it stay there for a while and we'll deal with the cip later yeah okay separate from speed effort from this yes yeah i think that there might be some people in the audience today who wanted to add comment on this issue if you are here for that purpose please come forward state your name your district city council member in your district and offer your comments if you are here just hit start and stop seeing none we'll move on thank you

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=m5FTqKt5m5k