San Angelo City Council 5-21-13

[0:00:00] good morning all let's call the meeting to order today we'll start with prayer and we have pastor harold watkins with the freedom fellowship to lead us in prayer father it's an awesome occasion to be here today and as we begin this prayer i lift up and i ask the hearts of the people in this room and to to lift our hearts toward those in oklahoma and texas that have been devastated not just yesterday but in recent days from loss through storms and explosions father that we would be mindful of their needs that we would be the people of god you've called us to be to bring restoration and healing we thank you for your compassion and for the great stories of compassion father that we've heard and read about how people step up in times of need but father may we be those same kind of people here in san angelo texas father we would thank you today for the rains that have been coming upon our land and we thank you in advance for the reigns that are coming and we give you praise and glory for that father i know there is transition taking place here in in the city government through newly elected officials that will be sworn in today so father we pray for those who are coming in and those who would leave those who are already here and are staying here father that the spirit of wisdom would still reside and continue to reside in this place that you would guide the hearts and the minds of your your elected people father they're here because you've ordained it and we are submitting to them into that authority as they lead us your laws your word says that the fulfillment of the law is love so father may they guide with wisdom but may it be superseded by their love for the people of this city father i thank you for uh your grace that covers us

[0:02:03] i thank you that this is a city of that work you've called to be a city a an oasis in the desert so to speak lord because we know that it's growing there are more people coming but father may we be prepared your word says that we can make our plans but you direct our steps so father that's my prayer i pray that that's the prayer of every elected official in this city that we can make our plans we can prepare but you direct our steps and father i thank you that you taught us to pray and i would ask you to join me today our father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever amen thank you i'm joined this morning by jesse white he's in the sixth grade at trinity lutheran school and he's going to help me with the pledges pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all honor the texas flag i pledge allegiance to the texas one state under god one an individual okay

[0:04:08] you got me stopped now is the time for public comment the council takes public comment on all items in the regular agenda public input on a regular agenda item will be taken at its appropriate discussion public input on an item not on the agenda or on the consent agenda may be identified and requested for consideration by the council at this time also the council may request an item to be placed on a future agenda or for a consent agenda item to be moved to the regular agenda for public comment so do i have any requests from counsel what sure this goes along with what brother watkins just said uh and kendall i'm going to ask you to be with me on this but ever since we begin our mayoral campaign every one of us paul included it said we're going to put god first our neighbor second and ourself last and that has kind of been a com a campaign pledge that each of us has made well our friends our neighbors in oklahoma city need our help i'm not going to be here 10 minutes i'm going to be gone and i'm not going to be back for another month kendall so you need to step up on this you've got another month but we need to we need to get something together with maybe lynn shipley the walmarts we need to collect water some gatorade and we need to get a truck to uh oklahoma city so that's my last request as a council member i think we need to work for our neighbors so i put it out to you daniel thank you thank you okay um i'm going to take us to a procedural issue for the second for a moment on the consent agenda is there anything council would like to have moved yes i'd like to pull seven and ten okay and sixteen okay so i have a seven ten and sixteen um i'm also aware that we we need to table item number 21 and move it to a future agenda okay

[0:06:11] so can i get a motion concerning the concern i'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda minus 7 10 16 16 and 21 minus 7 10 and 16 for the to be moved to the regular agenda and for 21 to be tabled to a future exactly okay a second okay thank you let me call for that vote then all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed okay that being done let me open this up for further comment from council public comment okay in that case let me move us into our special agenda today we have a consideration of adopting an order canvassing the returns and declaring the results of the election held may 11 2013 and calling for a runoff election on june the 15th 2013. this is not a normal process so you're going to see me do a lot of reading on this to make sure i at least make a good run at doing it correctly in order of the city of san angelo texas canvassing returns of a general election held in said city on the 11th day of may 2013 for the purpose of electing municipal officer officers and a special election held in said city on the 11th day of may 2013 for the purpose of electing municipal officers to fill vacancies for unexpired terms declaring results of the general election and special election calling for a runoff election to be held on june the 15th 2013 for the purposes of electing a mayor to fill the mayor's seat and the council member to fill the vacancy in single member district seat one and a council member to fill the vacancy in single member district seat five providing a severability clause and providing for an effective date uh you know make a presentation yes mayor

[0:08:16] would you like to read the results of the election okay at this time i'll introduce the results of the election and uh i will read through them and and we'll see if there are any questions from uh from council members and any desire to to have me go into any precincts or any of that kind of thing okay so uh what we have we have uh in the mayor race kendall hirschfeld received 2919 votes or 39.48 percent dwayne morrison received 2295 votes or 31.04 percent paul alexander received 2180 votes or 29.48 percent there were a total of seven 7 394 votes in single member district 2 jim turner received 143 votes or 14.17 percent marty self received 675 votes or 66.90 percent joseph grimes received 191 votes or 18.93 percent there were a total of 1 0009 votes in single member district 4 sally francis ayana received 278 votes or 43.03 percent don vardaman received 368 votes or 56.97 percent there were a total of 646 votes in single member district 6 don barnhart received 491 votes or 28.87 percent charlotte farmer received 1117 votes 65.67 percent anita guy received 93 votes or 5.47 percent there were seventeen hundred uh total votes in that single member district in each case uh in these three in these cases for uh the district two district four in district 6 a clear majority winner

[0:10:20] was chosen in the other cases including the mayor's race we will move to runoff so let me read this pursuant to the applicable provisions of the texas local government code texas election code and the city of san angelo texas home rule charter the city council officially finds and determines and declares the results of said general election to be that marty self is elected council member for district two to a two-year term of office by a majority vote of the voters and don vardaman is elected council member for district four to a two-year term of office by majority vote of the voters and charlotte farmer is elected council member for district six to a two-year term of office by a majority of the voters and under section six it is therefore found that no candidate for the mayor of office for the office of mayor received a majority of the votes cast for that office and that the following two candidates for office of mayor received the highest and second highest number of votes for the office of mayor to wit kendall hirschfeld and dwayne morrison therefore it is ordered and declared that a runoff election shall be held on june 15 2013 at which the candidates shall be candidates having received the highest and second highest number of votes for the office of mayor what would you like to see just keep moving yes sir okay section seven pursuant to the to the applicable provisions of the texas local government code texas election code and the city of san angelo texas home rule charter the city council officially finds and determines and declares the results of said special election to be that in single member district one trinidad aguirre junior received 693 votes or 37.83 percent bill richardson received 277 votes or 15.12 percent robert bankster senior received 66 votes or 3.6 percent rodney fleming received

[0:12:25] 796 votes or 43.45 percent there were 1 832 voters in single member district 5 barbara pratt received 167 votes or 11.12 percent h.r winky ward law iii received 653 votes or 43.48 david mcbride received 603 votes or 40.15 percent barry gambrell received 79 votes or 5.26 percent there were a total of 1 502 votes under section 8 it is therefore found that no candidate for council member single member district 1 or council member single district single member district 5 received the majority of the votes cast for the office for which he was a candidate and that the following candidates received the highest and second highest number of votes for the respective offices for which they were candidates to it single member district one trinidad aguirre junior rodney fleming single member district five h.r winky wardlaw iii and david mcbride the last paragraph okay therefore it is ordered and declared that a runoff election shall be held on june the 15th 2013 at which the candidates shall be candidate shall be candidates having received the highest and second highest number of votes for their respective offices to wit council member for single member district 1 and council member for single member district 5. i'm looking do you do you need me to move to the any of the other items i guess i'm looking for this canvas we'll do that in a moment actually um you've done that part you've ordered the runoff election so now we need a motion to take the two motions okay okay let me ask at this time uh for a motion uh and this is assuming that the

[0:14:31] results i just read meet your approval okay so if you don't need me to dig into the results further than i did i need a proof i need a motion second okay i have a motion to approve and here's what i'm looking for i didn't say the motion i i got one uh i'm looking for for uh i'm gonna need two and i want to make sure that i get get you to do both of them it's on the first page is this on the resolution may i have a motion to accept the findings and adopt the order okay and a second okay so i have a motion in a second to accept and find and adopt the order have any questions on this let me call for that vote all those in favor please say aye aye okay may i have a motion to adopt the resolution calling for the runoff election on june the 15th 2013. mr silvas and miss farmer okay do i have any question on the call on this before i make a call all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed okay we're ready it is hereby declared to be the intention of the city council uh that we would um move to the to a special election on june the 15th and except uh at this time the results of the may 11th election for those who were elected with majority vote i'm going to follow miss remittas in the process of walking through introducing new folks and and appreciating old folks so judge gilbert will be administering the oath of office to mr vardaman and mr

[0:16:34] self here i come all right if you'll raise your right hand please feed after me hi marty cell i'm marty sell do you solemnly swear or affirm do solemnly swear our firm that i will faithfully execute the office of duties of the office and i will faithfully execute the duties of the duty of the office for the city council single member of district 2 of the single of the city council single member district 2 of the state of texas of the state of texas and will to the best of my ability and will to the best of my ability preserve protect and defend preserve protect and defend the constitution and the laws of the united states the constitution and the laws of the united states and of this day and of this state so help me god so help me god thank you okay this is the certificate of election in the name and by the authority of the state of texas this is to certify that a general election held on the 11th day of may 2013 marty self was duly elected a council member for single member district 2. in testimony thereof i have hereto signed my name and caused the sill of the city of san angelo to be affixed this is the 21st day of may 2013. welcome aboard

[0:18:38] thank you remember where i put those bad gum things mr self you may not take your seat on the dice do solemnly swear that i will faithfully execute the duties of the office that i will faithfully execute the duties of the office los angeles city council single member district 4 of san angelo city council single member district 4 of the state of texas of the state of texas and will to the best of my ability and well to the best of my ability preserve protect and defend preserve protect and defend the constitution and laws of the united states the constitution and laws of the united states and of this day and of this day so help me god so helping god and as before this this is a certificate of election for the city of san angelo in the name and by the authority of the state of texas this is to certify that a general election held on the 11th day of may 2013 dawn vardaman was duelly was duly elected council member single member district 4. in testimony thereof i have here here unto signed my name and caused the city the seal of the city of san angelo to be affixed this the 21st day of may 2013. congratulations thank you

[0:20:44] congratulations do you want to come down do you want something to come up what would you like to help okay yep i charlotte do solemnly swear that i will faithfully execute the duties that i will faithfully execute the duties of the office of the san angelo city council of the office of the san angelo city council single member districts single member district six state of texas of the state of texas and will to the best of my ability preserved and to will to the best of my ability preserve protect and defend protect and defend the constitutional laws of the united states the constitutional laws of the united states and so help me god congratulations thank you i don't think that's exactly how that should go right here the certificate of election the city of

[0:22:49] san angelo in the name and by the authority of the state of texas this is to certify that a general election held on the 11th day of may 2013 charlotte farmer was duly elected council member single member district six in testimony whereof i have here unto signed my name and caused the seal of the city of san angelo to be affixed this the 21st day of may 2013 that's one of the hardest things oh okay there you go we do this all the time so we're really good at it mr morrison would you join me please sir mr morrison thank you very much for 10 years of service to the people of san angelo and to single member district 2 and thank you for taking the opportunity and running for mayor and for being of service to the city i appreciate you for everything you've done and have enjoyed working on the council with you and we'd like to present you with this plaque for your service as the seal of the city of san angelo

[0:24:58] says presented to dwayne morrison city council member single member district 2 may 2003 to may 2013 in grateful recognition of dedicated surface service to the city of san angelo and i would like to say thank you i have served district 2 for the last 10 years i've made a lot of mistakes i've made some decisions that i still sleep with i've made some decisions that haunt me but most of the decisions and all the decisions that i have made i have made thinking it was the very best thing for my constituents and i have worked hard and i have done the very best of my ability to serve the constituents that honored me and put me in the position to represent them and i am very thankful to each and every one of them i have earned their respect i have earned their loyalty and i did that because i tried to be as respectful and loyal to them as i could be so it's been a good ride it's been a good ride i've enjoyed it and i plan on being back on the 15th thank you uh folks what i'd like to do at this time is start with our new council member marty self and allow him to introduce himself and introduce any special guests well i'm marty self and uh i had fun running and and i look forward to serving the constituents of single mirror district 2. i would like to to

[0:27:01] just point out a few of my special guests my number one supporter my wife patty and my my son and daughter-in-law joe and rayleigh and if you don't have grandkids you need to get them because i have two great-granddaughters taylee and taygan and then i have some very very dear friends that helped me a lot in my campaign tommy hebert and carol rigby and a couple that's almost like my mom and dad now to me uh ken and brenda cook and then the two hardest working supporters on my campaign was my campaign treasurer dan baker and the frank white who probably worked harder than anyone so i'd like to recognize those those individuals too and then the one that makes me say the right things my pastor from emmanuel baptist church tommy richardson i thought that was going to be your wife okay she's the one that scolds me okay outstanding uh i'd like to introduce our our new member from single member district four uh mr don vardaman and ask him to introduce himself and anyone you'd like to introduce i'm proud to serve the city of san angelo i feel like i served him for 30 plus years as in the fire marshal's office and and this is a great honor being elected uh i was elected as a school board trustee and and that was also a great honor uh i look forward to serving the city i i look forward to to taking on the the tough issues and and uh being truthful and honest and and that's doing the best thing that we possibly can for

[0:29:03] the city um i have my fiancee desiree bishop who will be my wife the 31st of this month our our pastor tommy richardson who will be marrying us the 31st of this month a good friend john kahn and partner in a business that we have and frank white who was my speech teacher don't hold that against him uh but frank was was with me when i ran for a school board and had dark hair so it's a it's been a long journey and then of course uh judge gilbert judge gilbert has has sworn at me for uh 30 years he he swore me in as as a peace officer and investigator he swore me in this fire marshal he swore me in the city marshall and he's still swearing at me so thank you alan and uh upon re-election i'd like to also uh introduce and reintroduce i guess uh council member charlotte farmer thank you and it is a pleasure to serve san angelo single member district 6 and look out for the entire city first of all i want to thank the good lord without his guidance i couldn't have been here but you know even with his guidance we need a little bit of help now and then from others and i had a really great campaign group if i call your name could you just stand real quick darlene jones bridget carr michelle wall patsy mcintyre joe spano don sharp where's bryce i know i saw bryce everybody needs bryce to be on his team your team and to lead the team because he's quite the cheerleader uh without these folks their hard work i wouldn't be here today they did everything for me that had to

[0:31:05] be done mobile wise moving signs and taking them down and putting them up and gosh that's that's a headache with the wins that we've had but i truly love you guys i truly appreciate the work that you did for me and my other special guest today is hildy gallando from mexico city please stand i'd call ask her to be here today true friend good lady and a good advisor i appreciate all of you thank you okay i'm sorry i forgot i forgot my daughter becky dykes and my sister loretta hicks i just i'm so sorry but they really have kept me going and done a lot of work for me i was wondering if well you know i just i didn't see him looking right at him and didn't see him just the way it is out west my friend on the back wall in the yellow shirt that's my son don sharp he and joe spano uh have escorted me around and been my driver and buggy mover and all the good i'm sure glad that to know that they're glad that i'm walking again outstanding okay at this time what we'd like to do is consider the appointment of a mayor pro tem for the 2013 city council so let me see what we have you know we have only been within mayor pro tem for a short period of time and but this is uh the day so uh let's let's see what the group would like to do okay i just kind of with the with the new guys that are that are coming on board is what we've done is we've i think in the past we've kind of been passing it around just passing the torch and i think that's worked quite well for what's gone around so

[0:33:08] maybe considering you know continuing that on and i make a motion that charlotte farmer is the new mayor pro tem since we're torch passing okay i'm i heard the motion but i didn't hear the last part of what you said mr barton since we're torch passing towards passing okay and i'll second that all right we have a motion in a second that charlotte be the mayor pro tem for the fall for the coming year do i have any other discussion up here all right let me call for that vote all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed okay at this time well welcome welcome back to the mayor pro tem position i hope you have fun uh i'm i'm going to be absent from this point forward i hope you enjoy yourself okay outstanding uh let's let's at this time take a break and we'll spend about 30 minutes in our reception where we welcome these folks aboard and thank members for their service and then we'll reconvene and start with our regular agenda okay good morning let me call the meeting back to order and let me start us off this morning on our regular agenda we'll be starting with an item pulled from the consent agenda this is item number seven consideration of rejecting all bids submitted under the request for bids for ferric chloride i've gotten my answer since then but if you i what i was curious is about i thought we had just approved this and was curious as to why you were rejecting it no that was a polymer that we just approved this is a ferric chloride it's a different chemical used at the water treatment plant and we were one of the bidders had made a mistake and we wanted to rebid the item to make sure that we got the best price for the city so we're rejecting the these current bids and we'll rebid this product motion to approve second okay i have a motion to approve in a second any uh question from council call for this vote then all those in

[0:35:10] favor please say aye aye aye any opposed okay let's move then to item number 10 also pulled from the consent agenda this is consideration of adopting a resolution amending the authorized representative for text pool and investment service for public funds and uh mr mayor i pulled it also because i was not familiar with the name or had seen it before and if michael could just tell us i'd appreciate it okay tech spool is a local government investment co-op and we invest money's there overnight it helps us with our rate of return uh without compromising to a great degree liquidity and so it's a pool that we've participated in for years and years and uh we're just changing so i can thank you okay i have a motion in a second for approval do i have questions from counsel i'll call for this vote all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed okay let's move on into item number 16. item 16 was the the way it read on the agenda that i have in my hand was hearing and consideration it did not say second hearing and that kind of bothered me and it just checked with aj and it does say second hearing in my computer and the new agenda that was published put out this morning does say second hearing so that took care of my question motion to approve second okay i have a motion in a second on this item again any question from counsel all right call for that vote all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed all right outstanding let's move forward then to a regular agenda item number 18. this is a presentation of the first quarter 2013 report from the chamber of commerce for economic development from the economic development council good morning sir we have our vice president for economic development at the chamber is john dugan good morning council appreciate the opportunity to be here on this day and with our new council members i'm john dugan i do marketing and recruitment for the chamber

[0:37:13] through contracts with costa dc uh funding sources are also county and the chamber itself through the cornerstone fund just to kind of bring you guys up to where we are on that you've got a fairly extensive packet from me you will look through it's got quite a bit of information it's got some advertising that we've done on this this quarter and this is the quarter that covers january through march 2013. we're always uh a couple of months behind when we do these reports just to give you an idea of kind of where we are we also did the update and copied you on the community profile pages those have been updated for 2013 numbers and we're continuing to look at those because things are changing so dramatically demographically and we'll continue to update those probably do another update in june as well this is part of our marketing piece that we use to answer questions for the companies that are there uh if i'm sorry where do you grab that data uh from all over we pull it from the state we pull it from the census bureau we look at the local reports they're coming through you know sales tax comes in you've got your larger employers in those numbers we go directly to them and it's a lot of canvassing hope does a lot of background work on that to get that done it takes several weeks to get the information put together to do the updates okay thank you you bet the uh on top of your packet you'll see a memorandum and and the last couple of quarters we've been trying to do those to give you kind of a synopsis of what is a good snapshot of what's going on kind of right now as well you've got all the background information over the last three months but the memorandum kind of gives you some of the things that we're doing specifically through that period we worked with about 12 different companies eight of which are uh oil related which as you know with what's going on we're seeing a lot of oil related companies interested in the community and we're moving forward with several of those we've got uh three that we think will make a decision by the end of the quarter

[0:39:15] we are moving in discussions with them in various stages you guys have heard a little bit about some of what we're doing with them because of the real estate that we're looking at uh we're still working with some of those companies we've lost one but we think we're going to be able to retain that one in the community just not necessarily in the business park so we're continuing to work with those and hopefully we'll get some some resolution i know that we've got one going to coast dc tomorrow to have some discussion so working hard with that i have a quick question on yes sir on the companies that that you're working with are you seeking them out or are they coming to us and if they are coming to us what what's bring them here what well with with what's going on in clown shell and that's actually i was going to talk a little bit about what's going on there because that's one of the big issues that we're working on right now uh the clan shell consortium will have actually its inaugural meeting on thursday in abilene we have a regional group that we've put together to try to address the issues that we know are coming because of what's going on in the oil field we are looking at housing issues we're looking at education we're looking at workforce we're looking at all the different aspects we have been talking and working with the folks from eagle ford because they've been going through this since 2005 when those first wells were dug and we're continuing to to talk with them back to your question most of the oil related companies are coming either through companies that are already here and being referred or they're simply coming through the community and want to be proximity wise close to the the shale as they can get we're seeing a lot of play right now from some houston companies who are already in eagle ford which is south of us and they're looking at moving up into the permian basin so because of that logistically we're in a good spot also if you think about it from a klein shell aspect and where it sits along with the permian basin you've really got three metropolitan areas you have abilene you have san angelo to the south and then you have the middle and

[0:41:17] odessa area if they want to be in one of those areas middle of odessa is not the place to be right now with what's going on over there abilene's a little bit further east but they're seeing some play as well uh but san angelo logistically is a good move so we're in a good position from that standpoint and it's bringing in a lot of conversations the other thing that we are seeing right now is developers i have been meeting with commercial and residential developers for the last two months and they just literally are coming through the community looking for opportunities uh you know i think we're seeing building begin to to uh move forward we're already seeing some crunch in the housing market with what's going on according to the realtors that i'm talking to and so we're trying to get get through the consortium of preparation set up right now we're looking at doing a study through utsa very similar to what eagle ford has done they did it after the fact but it's a lot of really good information and we hope will give us some projections we've been working as a group with workforce here workforce in abilene our chambers are working on it a lot of our smaller communities are working toward that and we're trying to get that funded and get that information out one of my biggest issues right now when i'm talking to these companies and especially when i'm talking to the commercial groups the folks that are looking at retail those types of things they're looking for numbers and our demographics have not caught up with that yet we know all the traffic going through we're seeing increases in sales tax we're seeing all of those things but with the census the way it gathers information we're still a little bit behind and so we think that uh by moving forward with this study we'll get a lot of information that we can use to help attract some of these folks into the community and to give them some reasons to be here as well so you're you're non-oil related are the developers and the retailers we're seeing those uh i'm also working with a couple of other companies that are manufacturers they're just they're they're not related at all

[0:43:20] and those are those are kind of ongoing and we're of course working with our local businesses as well because we know that there are going to be some issues there we're already seeing some employment issues going on and we're trying to help with some training and we're working with all our partners to make sure that we as a community address the situation that we're going to be in as we go forward and try to address those issues and try to get and and quite frankly i don't know that you can get out in front of them once they start but at least to try to be prepared uh with with what we know is going to be going forward john yes man regarding those demographics and numbers yes the i'm on the housing committee uh that's working on uh temporary housing et cetera and right one thing we need to do is make sure and i made this clear to the committee and i want to make it let the rest of the council know right now while i can say this in public and let you know that i want and i asked for and hopefully this happens i want numbers every month very accurate numbers of where we are in population who's moved in that month and then the next month as fast as possible get it out so because if developers have the information or investors if they have the information they'll make the investment if it's vague and it's last year's information they won't do it so that would be very helpful to us and that's one of the things that we're striving to find it's just the information is just not coming through at this point in any of the resources that we're normally using so well let's discuss this and the city will be involved in the consortium also yes exactly on thursday right but the thing is you're right on the money basically what we hear from the developers builders is that they need more information before they can invest here they need to make sure that the information they have is good information so that's we're running the money i think that even is more frequently than once a month as we gather information we'll update the website on that too well and part of the study will help with at least with the projections on that and we'll help update that as well and these are the folks that do a lot of good demographics so we're looking forward to to being able to to get to that in a in a fast-moving time who who do you work with on uh at the city on an ongoing basis so

[0:45:24] that bob schneeman for the most part uh i work directly with bob on most of our our resources remember i mean i'm the guy that kind of tries to bring these guys in and and date them and bring them in but from the standpoint of actually finalizing it goes through committee housing committee and there's all i'm doing right now is making sure that i encourage a lot of communication so we don't have these left hand here's the left hand and it's trying to do stuff on housing and here's the right hand and it's trying to do stuff on economic development and they're not talking at all to each other and and uh next thing you know we've got a train wreck because you're writing guys doing stuff the other guy's doing and so i'm wanting to make sure then through mr schneemann and through his reporting structure and uh through you know mr valenzuela that we keep a cohesive effort going and when they're moving fast communication is more difficult and that's one reason more and more critical of course that's one reason we've developed the consortium and have been working so hard to to get everyone together because this is a much bigger issue than just san angelo this is a regional issue and that's why we're trying to work on a regional basis to address those issues we'll have a specific group that will work locally on this that will be a subsection of the consortium but we also need to work with those partners you know i was talking to an economic developer the other other night from one of our other communities and he made a point that i think is very correct usually with economic development there are winners and losers i'm after a business someone else is after a business it goes one place or the other there is so much business to be had right now that everyone is going to be a winner within the region but we still have to address all of the issues that are going to happen the increases in school population and and how that will affect uh the need for workforce and the need for very specific types of training which our community college is working toward and asu is working toward we've got all those partners in line and working with us on this to develop this

[0:47:26] plan and move forward so that's that's a big part of what we've really been working toward because it's been taking so much time well let me ask you this you know we're talking about client shell and increase do we do we have a a rough idea of how much our population has increased do we are we seeing where where do we get that information from we're not seeing it yet we're not seeing those numbers yet that's what i was saying that's the problem because we're not really seeing the projections yet it's my understanding in june we'll get probably some projections from the census but i don't know if it's going to be developed over our historical or whether they're actually going to be looking and taking samplings and so that's one of the reasons again we're trying to do this study because we think that that will help us to look at that impact and look at some of those numbers to get a better idea of what's what's going forward ray perryman who is is kind of the economic development guru for texas has put out a couple of reports he is saying that through this process we'll grow about 6 000 i've heard more than that so you know right now it's up in the air and we're not seeing the numbers that we need we're still too new to into it you know one of the the issues that i'm seeing from the standpoint of real estate is i'm being told by the realtors that they're getting multiple bids on houses right now but unfortunately what's going on is the appraisals aren't catching up fast enough with the new price on the housing so they're having trouble with financing once that's done it's the same thing with all of these numbers we're moving so swiftly through this that it's not catching up with us yet so we're working very hard to try to to look through that and figure out how to do it any other questions on klein okay again as i said i've been working also with the local companies and trying to make sure that those are being done we are also working diligently to try to make sure that we are continuing with the strategic plan we are working toward that uh i'll be in san antonio next week we've got a contingency from mexico coming up and i was invited by texas one

[0:49:28] to be part of that and we're going to be doing a dinner for them so we're still working in all of those directions uh i was we worked through and and were represented with the world ag show again this year and we're continuing to do that so all of the other things that we're working with including real real estate commercial hotels and all those things and pamela will be telling you more about the tourism piece before all is said and done so i won't step on that i'm also working on a regional basis again still with with tmcn uh through this period we were in austin talking with legislators working on the very specific things that that we are concerned about within our communities and uh are continuing to support that as well and we're going to need that from a community-wide basis as we go forward with this because of what's going to be happening with roads and water and all of those things so we appreciate all the hard work the council's been doing is in moving forward with that the other thing we did during this quarter is our annual economic development awards we presented uh five of those this year at a luncheon and uh what i will tell you from that standpoint and i was very pleased with these were five outstanding companies that have made great progress in the last year but we got an additional large group of nominees that were very well deserving either i was very grateful that though i i kind of sit with that committee i don't make that that decision on who wins the awards because we've got a lot of businesses that are growing very rapidly within our community and it's really good to see those numbers coming through that being said i don't i won't take up more of your time unless you've got other questions that i can help with questions what is your one thing okay when i look at what's going on and lots of oil industry businesses coming in i think to myself boy we need to be diversifying if we can and so if there's a tie it goes to the other non-old industry company make sure you know we want as many coming in here as

[0:51:31] possible right is this we want to i mean just we've been in a diversified community for a long time very balanced and that's a plus for san angelo well and how do you see that living through i mean i i've lived my life in west texas i'm i'm from a little further north we don't talk about that particular community here but i'm from an area that has been very dependent on oil i was a banker through the 80s and if you remember what happened during that time when the oil busted we all busted with it what we found out in our community a little further north is we were way too tied to oil and gas and we had to continue that diversification and they've done a good job san angelo's always done a good job with that i'm working not only as i said with the strategic plan still trying to hit all of those target industries we're working toward but we've got a couple of others that we've got that we've been working toward no bites yet but you know they're because of what's going on legislatively texas looks really good for anything connected with guns right uh and we're working towards some of those companies right because some are very dissatisfied where they are and so we're making those contacts and moving forward we're continuing to work outside the oil realm but you you take what you can get at this point and and we've got some really good companies looking at us and it's going to create a lot of a lot of jobs and a lot of capital investment within our community and it's going to be we're going to have a good time for a little while and i like to hear the strategic plan we spent 75 000 on it it was very good had a lot of details in it a lot of things we can aim for when we counsel we don't want to drop the focus on that strategic plan the new council members you need to get a copy of that and check it out what it says and etc is that online do we have it online is it advanced san angelo we've talked about that yeah it's on the coast of dc website okay and i've got a connection to it as well

[0:53:34] on my website all right all right let's not forget about the advanced san angelo website basically we're actually working toward that bob and i had a meeting about it yesterday and uh we have put together and we think we've got the logo that we need and and we're working with uh stephen mclaughlin to to do some finalizations that's another coordination issue that the housing information and is also an event we need one spot for everybody to go to and that's that's what the uh economic development it was angelo economics said to do that right okay bob oh hi mr schneemann why don't you just uh just because it would be the best thing to do why don't you go ahead and email uh our two members uh with the actions give them the link and send it to the whole council if anybody sends all accounts make it easy let them let them take you let them get on the link and see what's there and print it if they want it and keep hold of it or whatever but just make it easy for them don't make them go look forward we we certainly do that yes we also will have a next month i'm about a month behind on it but next month we'll also have the annual report costa dc annual report to the council okay so and then i'll have a lot of that information in it as well i was going to point out one thing on the statistics as far as our population growth and that sort of thing a lot of the bigger cities there are companies that that make a living doing that sort of thing they do housing studies housing projections and that sort of thing we're not a big enough metropolitan statistical area where they come and do that for profit unless we hire them so that's one of the problems that we're running into metro studies is one that i know of and when i was in land development i relied very heavily on that as far as what the housing projection was going to be how many lots we were going to create over the next year that's something we don't have here and it may be worth investigating whether or not we can get somebody to do that if it's on a maybe on a fee basis to

[0:55:38] okay one of the things i did just uh in in my former life was one of the things that we can do is just look at the number of water uh meters that are being turned on or you know and all those kinds of things so you can get something there the other the other two groups that i would be spending energy with is the apartment association and what they're because they they can let you know what's going on with their rate of um that's the third group workforce workforce has good job numbers as far as as far as trying to stay in front of because you're talking about how all these numbers come well behind and as far as trying to stay in front of it's you know talking to the school district about how many people are are signing up to go to school it's talking about how many water meters are being turned on that haven't been turned on and it's talking to apartment complexes or the association and uh and realtors to have some understanding of of what's going on there and that's about as far as trying to get numbers as they happen well that's about as good as it gets i said that's a lot and a statistician can correlate those numbers to a range that we have between this many and this many citizens here based on the numbers and the ending with their 95 confidence etc and that's what they want to know the apartment association does these occupancy rate ratios monthly so i mean they do we can present those numbers what we can't present necessarily is a statistical analysis of those numbers which is a lot of a lot of investors are looking at they're looking for what does this really mean and that's the part that because we don't have statisticians on staff we can't do that for them but we do have groups that will be working with us the housing committee we do have realtors we do have the apartment association we do have that information also so that's the thing i was talking about left hand and right hand just wanting you to get information as quickly as possible back and forth exactly but i heard what you said i'll carry that forward and work on that okay

[0:57:42] at this time then let me invite our cvb vice president pamela miller up for a convention and visitors bureau presentation good morning everybody and welcome to the new city council folks great to have you here i'm reporting on the first quarter january through march and that is always a really busy quarter for us it's the month when we kick off a lot of business with the world's greatest horsemen go into slack and ride into rodeo so a lot of business right at the front part of the year at the end of march our year-to-date occupancy was up again 16 and our average daily rate 15 i did just yesterday get the report that took us through april which our year to date is at 16.4 on occupancy and our average daily rate is actually up 18.8 that makes 28 consecutive months that both our occupancy and our average daily rate have been up so every month when i get the report i'm assuming we're going to get to a plateau but that has not been happening we were very busy with the the rodeo business and the horsemen while you're on hotels what do you know about hotel activity what in other words do you know anything about floors on a hotel that are being renovated that are going to add space do you know about uh anything where you know someone is about to build other than like we know from our activity that there's one on 14th street we don't know the timing on it but i'm just asking you what you what you know and see if there's anything that you educate us on online i can say that there are five to eight hotel properties that i know of that are wanting to come here i consistently send emails to planning

[0:59:44] to find out if they've gone to the permit stage yet and we don't have anybody at permit stage we do have the one announcement for the one that you just that you just talked about but we do have a need for additional hotel rates what we really need to do is try to bring the price back down because that the average daily rate is up and that is making it difficult to sell sports business they want a 70 or an 80 room rate making it a little bit tougher to get convention business because they don't want to pay that rate and so if we get some more properties that's going to it's all about supply and demand and of course that'll bring our price down a little bit thank you during the first quarter we assisted with 17 different conventions meetings sporting events or motor coach tours we had a projected attendance of 21 954 people and 3 602 room nights the average length of day spent was 3.5 that's up a little bit those of you that see this every quarter know we're usually at 2 or two and a half a big reason for that is really the celebration of champions because that is a 10 day event total economic impact for the quarter 5 million 571 000 496. pamela let me ask you on the 17 conventions was it a pretty smooth transition as far as available rooms or did we struggle or um no we were okay we everybody was worried about rodeo that we had rooms um we did have rooms um we were not sold out we they weren't necessarily the prices that people wanted to pay for the rooms but we were yeah yeah and we are consistently getting complaints about room rates in our city i went to houston for an event about

[1:01:47] three weeks ago and it was 299 dollars for a hampton inn so and it was because of a conference in town so i mean things just happen when the supply and demand sometimes prices get pretty darn high i'm glad we're not there so i just went to the county judges and we're bringing that here next year so we had to set up there this year and i called four hotels three of them were over three hundred dollars per night and the one that i ended up getting was 200 a night so it's not just us it's really this this whole region is having that same problem i got in trouble for being a vagrant sleeping in my car in february we participated in converge on the capitol in austin and that's really our legislative day for the tourism industry the hotel industry the cvbs and we go meet with our legislators and we talk about what our issues are and there were about a thousand of us we had a really good turnout probably our biggest issue this year that we're fighting for is the school start date texas claims that they lose 5 million a day in state tax for when it when a kid is back to school basically when it's not a summer travel season so there's some legislation going on trying to move that date again and that's what we're fighting the hardest for some site visits that we had this quarter included a remote control boat racers group that wants to do remote control races out on lake nasworthy they say they're coming the first weekend in october and we're just waiting to get our contract on that we had a group from hardin simmons it was a marketing group that came down and studied our area they are putting together a marketing plan for the texas sports trail as this is an anniversary year for them we also had filming of two san angelo commercials for texas country reporter i don't know if any of you watch that

[1:03:51] program but starting in may we have been a top texas town and we will be through october that is an advertising opportunity that's not a designation but there's a lot of good things that come with that so including him coming here and doing another story on san angelo we did full servicing and what i mean by full servicing is when a group comes in we help them put together the itinerary we help them find hotel rooms we tell them what to do in their spare time we get a meal costs we do their transportation really put the whole conference together for them and we did that full servicing for ports to planes mexico trade task force texas wildlife association texas jewish historical society and texas high school athletic directors we attended trade shows at the american bus association convention in orlando and those are motor coach operators from across the united states so companies like dan diaper tours or american journeys bus tours we also went with the others many other cvb's across texas on a texas media mission to new york city and we had a texas event that we invited them to plus had appointments some of my appointments were with family circle travel and leisure the not aaa food and wine new york times and bird and blooms advertising that we did this quarter included texas town and country they do a tourism edition ride texas texas highways texas monthly texas events calendar sports destination management converge which is a meeting planner international publication facebook and google search and we did give you a couple samples of some of our advertising they are on pages 10 through 12 of your packet on the um excuse me very briefly do you code these so you can kind of uh do the

[1:05:54] leads and follow up on those leads to determine how many actually came came through on those advertisements we do we keep track of not every piece of advertising that we do has that component the majority of it does and so we do our cpus our cost per unit um how much it costs for that person uh to you know how many requests do we get for further information basically and also our website is always on those ads so a lot of folks go download the brochure off the website and don't even request that but yeah we do keep track of every one of those and the budget is in your packet we're doing uh very well on the budget we're at 27 percent of our projected income for occupancy tax at the end of the first quarter we only had one sports allocation this quarter and it was two thousand dollars for the u triple s a baseball tournament which was actually last weekend and what the sports fund is it's an a budgeted amount that we have that people different sports organizations fill out an application tell us what their economic impact is going to be and we have a group that is from all areas of sports across the city that evaluates these to decide if we're going to give them funds and how much we're going to give them they also have to do within 30 days of the event a recap to give us what their final numbers were so it's a great program and it helps us bring additional sports events that we might not be able to bring to san angelo and then finally it didn't happen this quarter but it was the first part of april and i'm excited about it so i want to tell you today we were able to book the eastern star conference for believe it or not our first conference for 2016. but it's a big one for us it's 1400 people so we were really excited to get that it's four nights

[1:07:58] and um the best part is we won out against 12 other cities so that's that's good news for us also in your packet pamela and what is that eastern star eastern star it's kind of the female part of masons it's the best way to evaluate that and they look at communities where there is a masonic temple of course we have that is there a conspiracy involved no they actually um they they really wanted a cowboy theme the planner that's in charges this year the chairman and she loved it we showed her ideas for the fort with the reenactors and just a lot of fun things and and they our coliseum was perfect for the setup that they have to have so it was a good one on the final pages of your packet i just wanted to point out on page 17 through 20 all through last year you heard me saying the top cities for visitation signing in the guest book at the visitor center are houston and san antonio which was great that's what we were trying to reach but this first quarter we can obviously tell there's a lot of oil and gas going on because now our number one and two are again midland odessa san antonio and houston are still in our top seven um but that's kind of uh midland and odessa are slots one and two and in our international canada so again you can tell there's a lot of oil and gas and on the back page on page 20 i also wanted to point out again these are visitor guest book sign ins and some of the folks tell us why they're here not everybody but those that do generally we don't get a lot of business people at the visitor center they're here to do business and don't stop to necessarily pick up brochures but you see this quarter it's higher than it has been and i wanted to point out that their average stay was 31 days and it's important to note that as good as our occupancy tax is doing

[1:10:01] 30 day or more stay in a hotel is exempt from paying hotel tax so the texas tourism industry and the texas lodging association are actually not taking sides on a bill that's going into legislation this year on trying to repeal this because they can see both sides of the story originally why we got it was because we wanted to get the snowbird business those northerners that come south for the the bad weather time and there are 37 other states that have some kind of an exemption for long-term stay so that's why it was brought around and also it helps business it might make somebody come here for a business venture rather than go somewhere else so we don't know where that one goes but talking about our legislative visit nobody wants to take sides on that one are there any questions i have a question mr hirschfeld i'm on page 15 of your operating statement and this is the expenses and it's about way fi way finding signage did y'all do so no what we did is we had we had a fund that several organizations contributed to that was to get a consultant to put together a plan to show us what we what we should do in our community for wayfinding signage and that funding is what paid for the consultant we have just recently gone back to them right before sean left and said assume we could come up with because i think everybody was kind of shocked by what the price was to do a wayfinding program and we knew it would be a long term process three to five years but it was in the millions and so we said let's assume we have

[1:12:03] three hundred thousand dollars to start it off put together a plan to show us what that should be and we've got that plan in fact aj and i have a meeting this week to kind of talk about where we are with wayfinding but that was to find out what it was we needed and then we'll need to find funds to try to move forward and do a wayfinding program i do know that some of the signage at the airport they are looking at the plans so that they try to tie into what this plan is that we're trying to do so what you see here is the funds that are left from all of those contributions um towards that wayfinding consultant and that'll be gone when we're done with paying the consultant bill this time around okay okay further questions for her on the presentation okay thank you very much thank you move us now to item number 19. this is consideration of approving an amendment to the vision plan component of the san angelo comprehensive plan that was adopted in 2009 this is specifically located between 43rd street to the north coliseum drive to the east 40th street to the south and grape creek road and chadburn street to the west and so we have a presentation by our interim director of development services a.j favre good morning mayor council i'm going to ask jeff hintz our interim senior planner to come up and walk through some of this with you he's been in charge of the team and putting together this amendment and has done an excellent job so i'd like him to talk about that with you just briefly to lay out what we're looking at today as you're all aware we looked at a couple of these on the last agenda we are periodically getting requests to examine different portions of the vision plan that vision plan again is our road map for growth in the city and texas state law requires us to zone in accordance with that plan and so as we've all discussed at various cases and events this is a plan that needs to be constantly changing and reacting to how san angelo's growing rather than a

[1:14:05] document that remains forever solidified even as the city moves on and so what we've done is taken one of those requests we've considered this with our planning commission had some good discussion on that and so i'm going to ask mr hintz to come forward and walk you through what staff has put together with the help of the planning commission in which if approved today would become a permanent part of the comprehensive plan thank you good morning mayor and council loud enough don't you guys think he did a great job choosing his wardrobe today look yeah johnny and i did the same thing by the way but y'all look better the purple looks good we aim to please does that say something about him or something about you well i mean he's he's like tight with tony romo so i'm trying to i'm just trying to be his friend does he have he's wondering if you were going to be an honorary planner does he have any other interesting thing mr hands i'm sorry that's all right we can do tony romo stories or anything else but um the item on the agenda is actually a vision plan amendment to the comprehensive plan for the following area of the city this is near the coliseum i'll get to some maps but this is an area bounded by short street to the south by 37th street east by columbia street and to the north by 44th street directly south of the coliseum uh north chadburn street by sextus and i'll get to a map here this is the current vision plan map it's a portion of the comprehensive plan the pink designation on here represents a neighborhood center which is intended for lower intensity commercial activities that will serve the surrounding neighborhoods which are shown by the yellow and the vision plan here neighborhood being you know apartments all the way to single family residential neighborhood center being maybe apartments or higher density residential designations the light green on this being the rural designation for kind of lower key and

[1:16:08] residential development and the red being a more intensive commercial type development so this is the current vision plan map of the area staff took a look at this area this is the current zoning of it you can see it there's a lot of cgch zoning that's a remnant that hasn't been a zoning district that's been eligible since the 70s it's called c2 in the past right now folks either choose general commercial or heavy commercial this dual one is kind of a leftover it's it's a remainder there's been a few cases and this one here a gentleman was going to do some self-service warehouses and did general commercial there and remove some of his cgch to do that the property that's really in question here for the amendment later on is uh this particular property part of the bill murray subdivision and mr murray is here today and i'm sure we'll like to speak to this matter as well um you know there's there was some analysis done staff spent about 20 hours going back to the 50s and looking through ordinances in mr ramirez's office to try and determine how this strip of zoning was placed in here and we have deemed it is is accurate the property we found no evidence that it was ever wholly zoned commercial at any point in the 50s and 60s there were strips put into chadburn street at about 300 feet on each side which is why you've got lots that are zoned half one thing and maybe part another thing um we don't do that any longer it's all the water none of the lot to avoid you know these issues where you know today he's got part of his property is owned residential and the rest of it is commercial so with that that's just kind of a background about how staff was directed by planning commission to go ahead and take a look at the history of the property mr murray was looking at at doing some commercial activities on this property and you know being contrary to the vision plan of of neighborhood in this case um you know potentially amending that vision to allow for some lighter commercial activities there so in terms of the options i'll get to what planning commission recommended the council may approve what planning commission sent to council remand that back to the planning commission for future discussion or deny the proposed vision plans altogether staff recommended no changes planning

[1:18:11] commission did recommend increasing modifying the vision plan map for the neighborhood center designation on the block we discussed by a vote of five to one at the last meeting in april and this is a land use map of the area staff did go out and do a field survey of the area drove around and observed the actual land use patterns on the area it's impossible to really plan for an area without you know knowing what's there and what the anticipated development patterns are you'll find within the packet as well i won't elaborate on this too much the orange is this vacant residential property the rut is neighborhood serving commercial type establishments there's a stripe station which is the triangle i know the mayor will be familiar with that as well as this other commercial properties both vacant and not vacant at this time here's an aerial photo of the area you can see predominantly a lot of the area is undeveloped at this time there's a lot of room for opportunities in this area so the vision plan certainly encourages that this is just an excerpt from the thoroughfare plan there is a planned major arterial coming through here that would loop up to chadburn street again which may help this area develop a little bit further in the future the area around the coliseum is already pretty much set in terms of thoroughfares there's collector streets already in place in terms of being planned they're not actually improved up to specifications at this time for actually accommodating that traffic anyone that's been to the coliseum you know knows even if it's half full there's still even traffic issues and during rodeo time it's you know it's problematic at best at times and that's certainly weighed into staff's recommendation to do to leave that side residential um the neighborhood center is already located at a future key node which is the goal of those on the street network in the area as i stated really isn't fully improved at this time there's known issues during events already and this is a gateway to a major entertainment venue into the community as ms miller just elaborated you know a lot of folks come to town just to use the convention center so that we need to be careful about what's going on there and around it of course in terms of the president anticipated development patterns of the area we'd expect you know a lot of

[1:20:14] residential infill to occur and some commercial infill as well this area has opportunities for that right now that folks can come in and develop that property i've got a land use chart of the area for those that don't like maps and like charts better we took a look at all the parcels there were 161 in that general area and these are the classifi classifications me and staff had gone out and observed and it's broken down by parcels uh and by land area as well as you can see there's a lot of vacant commercial property already that was about 21 percent of the land use there's lots of opportunities in terms of adding more to that the area has only about 170 people living at it we went ahead and pulled the census data for that particular study area and it's really lowly developed at this time maybe with the current influx of people there's more folks but at this time it's only home to about 200 people in that area this is what the planning commission had proposed changing i didn't match the pinks perfectly as you could see but this is what planning commission recommended to this council to do with the vision plan to go ahead and make this entire block into a neighborhood center instead of the current residential configuration on the eastern portion of it now so with that if there's any questions i'll be happy to try and address those questions about the presentation okay and so the vote or the motion would be to go to this map if we want to approve what the planning commission said right uh remand it back to discuss to tell them well we don't want to go to this map we'd like you to rethink this a little bit and give them instruction or deny it those are kind of the three options that we have so you can you can make a motion to approve it as presented right here you could make a motion to remand it back to them with some kind of direction for what you'd rather see or you could just deny it and move on so let me let me start there and staff has a slightly different read on it so what is what is your read compared to the planning commission's read very clearly and sure quickly stated in terms

[1:22:18] of the streets here 43rd and coliseum drive they are defined as collective streets in the arterial plan if they were fully improved to collector street standards it probably wouldn't be as much of an issue but in terms of even introducing some lower intensity commercial businesses to an area that already has some traffic problems at this time we see a little bit of a problem with that it's not to say that you know this council couldn't dedicate funding to fully improve those to collector street status but i know that you know during budget time you have a lot of polls on where the money is going to go and this may or may not be on that list right now but um you know in terms of introducing more traffic to an area that already has some problems really our biggest concern show me the vision plan that is in place right now i should have had that slide at the end i apologize this is the vision plan now is calling for neighborhood type development on this particular area into the coliseum so so it's really whether it's uh residential or turned into the neighborhood maybe maybe lower intensity commercial or higher density residential yes sir okay i have a question okay i have a uh mr hirschfeld and then mr alexander uh and and this is going to go similar to the comments that i had at the last council meeting and i and nothing personal but i didn't really care for it because i was concerned about existing business and that's why you know i kind of butchered up your your plan and no offense but and that's one of the problems that i've got with this right here whether this is uh even with the portion of the existing is that you've got you go back go to the other one that has the uh current land use other land you something right there and see that's the problem i've got is that you've already got an establishment of an established businesses of commercial development in these sections and and i have a problem changing a vision and i realized that the vision was is already there saying that the red

[1:24:21] probably is not in accordance with the vision am i correct in that statement yeah there's a few areas here that are zoned commercial right now that the vision is currently states that you know more rural or neighborhood type development would be encouraged for those moving forward you could certainly send that again you've got some existing commercial business in spots that that may not conform exactly to uh how the vision is currently laid out and being projected am i correct in that statement yeah there's a few there um not not too many but there are a few there's a few nightclubs and a couple like weather there's a couple of industrial service type businesses that are there now that don't generally conform to that it's not saying they have to go away or close they're allowed to continue forever as long as they don't change their zoning but in terms of you know what division it's a 25 to 50 year plan in terms of that it's not like tomorrow or next week or anything but in terms of the 25 to 50 year growth that's what this vision is really getting at i understand my concern is that again i don't want to hurt existing businesses that are there and that that is already located in that that location and for them to be able to continue with their business and and do continue doing what they need to do to their existing business for it to do well sure i understand right now with that said does that does this change in the vision or does uh change the neighborhood commercial affect would it affect the current businesses that are in that area in terms of the area that was recommended for going to neighborhood center there it's all residential at this time there are no businesses there the nearest business this red one here if you've driven up coliseum drive there's a gravestone monument business they're you know they're legally non-conforming at this point but there are no um commercial establishments on this slot they're all residential so one could look at it as maybe an opportunity for someone to do more commercials and i guess i'm saying

[1:26:23] for that entire block for the entire block there's several here there's a weather improvement center i can look up in the in the data in here but there's several businesses that the neighborhood center would probably work for them it's just those higher intensity industrial uses that the cgch zoning allows for now that really isn't compatible with the neighborhood center let me jeff i need you to go and show the current map the current vision map okay there you go mr herzfeld see the they're already i mean the and i understand that and i guess that that's my point is that i'm you're not crazy about the current vision map i'm not crazy about the current one but it is and i don't know that i and i know that's what it is and i and i guess if we're going to change a portion of this then i mean i just want to make sure that if we're changing it we're changing it correctly right so we're not hindering again exactly the discussion that we had last week that we're not hindering her uh a business that's currently in place sure no i understood it wouldn't you wouldn't be only if they came in for a zone change and wanted to do something you know more intense with their zone would would stay exactly yeah their zone stays exactly the same this would benefit them wouldn't it not for the for the folks here this could adopt this this could be a benefit to them in terms of you know they've got a residence now maybe they want to do it it's moot though mr silva's mr herzfeld i mean what i'm saying is you know last week we were talking about changing really changing something in this case for the most part we're only changing the part that's residential to to general neighborhood and uh last week i think was much more intensive of a vision and change than this one so i don't think we're going to affect the current businesses where last week i really thought there was some chance that west texas steel and some of those businesses were being impacted these these businesses that are already in business are gonna their their color is gonna stay exactly the same regardless of our vote today unless we you know

[1:28:26] unless we dug in even are those vacant lots on the north end of that block the lots here right the orange one didn't come up as vacant when we went through there um the yellow is a more high density residential and the darker green was a more sprawling low density residential but these two lots here did come up as vacant in our survey and i hear what kendall's saying because we've we've got to be careful and that we don't jeopardize any potential businesses maybe wanting to spring up there so we don't want to get ahead of ourselves either because there is an issue with the volume of traffic in those areas you know um i know that right now uh if we were to change it then we'd have some serious congestion we already have some congestion issues there uh and if we were to change it then that might be uh let me let me ask for kind of a point of order here mr silvas i had recognized mr alexander to be after mr hirschfeld i'll let you direct my points are on the this plan right here the thoroughfare plan they don't they have very little to do with what kendall was talking about so if you want to take my direction we can but it looks like there's a comment from a gentleman out he may have something that's much more yeah i'll definitely i'll definitely get you to public comment and let the gentleman he's the one that's the the advocate so i'll definitely get him up here my comments are about the thoroughfare if you look at how uh grape creek connects into ogden which looks like it goes down and will connect into humble road that to me is extremely important because it is not easy to get to the coliseum the coliseum is on the way to only the coliseum and if you're going to help san angelo economically and you're going to help that coliseum by way of the coliseum then you're going to have to get traffic in and out of the coliseum easier than you do now and 50th street is one way uh but i've always thought from bryant to the coliseum has never been developed out it needs to be

[1:30:28] and that's your path okay and when i looked at the vision plan it doesn't reflect that the proposed vision plan green there's this would be a major road humble road would turn into the way to get to the coliseum and there would be businesses that want to locate on it it would be probably a five-lane road i would guess eventually that's the way to make it work and i just don't see it here and i would i would if it was my choice i would push for that road as fast as possible get it built and because that makes the colosseum very accessible and it would solve a major problem and then the vision plan is off at that point so as a visionary here i'm gonna say i would like to see some that thought out more to see where neighborhood commercial would fall into play here where does the line between two and four where is the line between two and four uh districts yeah yes you go this is definitely your district right two and where does that red dotted line when how far before it starts getting into your world do you know it it doesn't hit mine it on my mind okay that dotted line as it comes on down doesn't get there okay thanks so much so i just missed yourself i think i'm looking for you to you know i lived up there for 11 years myself and i used that road all the time uh and very familiar with this but anyway i'm just looking for you to to start weighing in and then maybe bring your constituent or your your business person well he mr alexander brought up that dotted road which doesn't exist but he's saying he thinks that for the vision plan it might should be turned into something that's along the lines of general commercial or neighborhood commercial and i'm saying i think those are all houses they are currently see what i'm saying so i'd be careful even in my vision plan

[1:32:31] about saying we're going to get rid of all those houses that's why i was saying i think one house is in the way and there's a problem and an engineer would have to work that out it depends what route we take but humble road is just barely on the map humble road to complete it there's very there's there's very little housing around it it's probably ranch in a state uh okay there's opportunities there what i'm going to do is try to give us let me do two things right here first okay one we're really only talking about the area that's that area okay so so unless you want to remand it back to the the planning commission and say i want you to look at the vision for this dotted red line then we're not talking about that today okay so first i want to do that okay we're really only talking about do we want to make a change to the vision map about this area so i'm you know and again in my mind i definitely would want uh mr self to be on board with remanding it back because it really is his world and i think those are all houses so i wouldn't be in a hurry to remand it back but i think i want to try to get a focus just on the area that we're talking about today and not do too much with the dotted line except keep it in mind but if we if we want them to do something with the vision map about the right dotted red line road then we have to send it back to them and tell them to i don't like delaying progress and probably our progress right now is where the subject is okay closer to the coliseum but but i also don't want to forget that that needs to be thought out in the future okay the so the two pieces of the way this is playing out is the planning commission saying i hear the concern about the congestion but i think you ought to let that be uh neighborhood commercial uh you know and that's what the planning commission is saying staff is saying and staff is saying well you know because of the congestion on coliseum drive and on 43rd street and what happens with events we're not so

[1:34:34] sure you ought to really let that be commercial neighborhood commercial and that's really our vote here on on what to do with the map and and my comment is if you if you'll fix up that humble all the way to the coliseum you've solved but you would basically be saying let's don't deal with this let's deal with something bigger well i say go ahead i would say do what we have before us as proposed with the planning commission's changes and then work with uh congestion from heroin agenda to make it a priority to solve and that would be the next uh okay mr self unless you want to speak now what i'm going to do is bring the gentleman up and let him tell you what he wants to do i would like to hear from him okay sir why don't you come on up and talk about what you're wanting to do and then and then let's decide which way we're going to go first of all isn't it great that we are living in a country that we can all meet like this and me and him not go to fist and fish i know he's doing the best for san angelo uh but in my thinking since 1979 needs to introduce himself this map sir i know you don't do this it's like what i was doing earlier today where you don't do this all the time but for the record i'd like you to go ahead and introduce yourself okay i'm sorry that's right my name is bill murray i'm the owner of the property located on 43rd street from the fourth lot there straight down 40th street there's no other businesses in that area other than a monument place that is on the corner and the property that i own and i operate a heavy construction house building mobile homes uh anything you want constructed uh off-field pads we've got bulldozers we got trucks we got everything okay 1979 i turned in a plat

[1:36:38] which the planning commission says was never was acted on and uh if it wasn't acted on how did i get the special permits for the the three lots uh no there's a no-brainer but anyway i have three special permits up there in the north going around grape creek road to 43rd street four lots out that way straight back in and then all this property here straight down to 43rd i own it's land locked over here you can't get into my property from coliseum drive or any other place other than 43rd grade creek road and chadburn the main exit is on chadburn it's been that way since 19. did you bring up on the map the the current vision plan because it kind of shows some of those uh spots that he's talking about just might make it easier to or or right there was fine back there or the one before keep going you had one that just showed the the property right there that works okay if you'll look there there's three lots at the top and go straight down to 43rd street everything in there is my property there's only one little pie at the corner up there that is residential one one little piece a land and it comes from the corner here down and it cuts off my back gate that's residential or was the planning commission approved a five to one vote that all of that belong or should go to commercial if that's true that's fine but

[1:38:42] as far as live commercial y'all are talking about if i make an application according to my attorney i lose the zoning that i already have he wants me to make an application for zoning which i already have and my big problem is this you have an envision for san angelo this envision for san angelo has never been discussed with the property owners and changing their zoning never have i got a letter that says we're going to change the back gate from commercial to residential when i went to the planning commission for four times they have not never been able to answer my questions who enacted this envision program whose idea was it and when was it enacted i found out it was 2003. i've had my zoning since 1979. i don't want to give it up i pay y'all plenty taxes i can't operate a business up there if you shut off my back gate everyone on coliseum drive everyone around 43rd i've got their full permission to keep my res uh commercial property commercial other than residential and it's heavy commercial it's not something to take lightly and if i make an application i lose the zoning that i have now i don't want to do that but i want the commission in the city commission to know how do you have the right to take away something that already has been zoned without notification i want to know and i agree with him i want to know how that works it doesn't it doesn't work so i wanted to work planning but here again

[1:40:44] i was told in the court of law well a deposition when i made a big mistake and hit the underground cable belonged to verizon or genital at the time you people own another 17 foot from chadburn over to my property line that you could have easily made a turning lane into the coliseum but you didn't do it i had an engineer that hearing tell me water runs to the east and so we're going to dig a big old hole out here to collect that water it's dry never has had any water in it i've lived up there for 40 years the water runs west folks down to the creek down to the old saddle club right into the river always has always will topographical area by aircraft fatigue that's a mistake and you paid thousands upon thousands of dollars to dig a hole next to lake view stadium the dirt's still up there he hadn't even moved it i'm upset yeah i'm upset and i apologize i live in one of the greatest cities in texas and the greatest state i'm a veteran damn i'm proud of it and i will fight for my rights and that's what i'm doing now you don't have a right to take that land away from me or rezone it not until you get me a letter and go to court of law i won't let you okay and yes sir walk me through your back gate and where you access it from uh there's an automobile that ran through the back gate and it was shut off and it's uh i don't have a mouse my back gate is right here follow this line and i'll show you the residential

[1:42:47] oh go pardon me okay right from here straight down to the corner of this first lock you're taking out part of that and then going down like this to the corner of this right here your trucks that come in and out and those kinds of things where do you need them to come in and out that's right i don't need anything i just need to be left alone let's do what i want to do okay thanks that's what i was asking gate is shut until it's legal i won't open it i've never had a commissioner yet that wanted to come up there and look other than one and marston he came up there he has no problems with it a couple of others came up there they have no problem with it planning commission has no problem with it i'm landlocked there's no other traffic there's no traffic i don't want a permit to build anything else y'all are worried about an rv park i was understood that they were scared that i might build a rv park y'all own one right across the street from me you operate one coliseum you don't have any problems with it thanks okay okay further question for or further comments or those kinds of things up here what we have in front of us is is the consideration of approving an amendment to the vision plan what it would do is make neighborhood commercial for the rest of that block that's what the planning commission has put in front of you okay so doing that would put you in line with what he is asking for beyond that are there questions is that true is that which is it in line with what you're asking for heavy commercial see and we're not we're we're doing purple is what neighborhood commercial i could hear a second yes sir i think it was neighborhood commercial okay so and here's my approach oh of course yeah you can give her that and you can send

[1:44:51] it all the way around thanks so much i need a clarification from jeff or aj they're asking for an application to change zoning am i correct you're you're asking to change some zoning and it will stay the same correct aj it stays the same let me give you a summary but try to add some clarity to this what i don't want to happen is if he's asked to change other zoning on another part that he has to change on the original part too that can happen the original statement that was made and the planning commission asked the staff to look into was the history of the zoning on this property we spent about 20 hours pulling every zone change every ordinance every minute record and we could find no evidence that that tract was ever zoned anything other than residential we understood that mr murray's intent was to have some type of commercial enterprise on this lot and so we explained to him i also spoke with mr councilman adams at the time as well as councilman morrison that the legal process in place to get to that final goal would be to look at the vision plan which wouldn't currently in its current state support a change to commercial after taking care of that issue a zone change application can be filed for commercial and would potentially be supported by this plan so we're trying to use the legal procedures in our toolbox to get to that end goal i don't know that we can ever come to a conclusion that will satisfy everyone on the history but i can tell you that we've done some extensive research on that but but the question that he made the statement that if he applies for a permit in that area that he will he might lose what he's got it's currently zoned residential oh okay so you would lose a residential let's make sure that we're crystal clear on this thing if you go back and you look at uh there's one that shows the

[1:46:55] kind of that little triangle and i believe it's a little triangle that we're talking about where your gate is okay right that would work and so so if yellow denotes that it's currently zoned if we change that section that's yellow that that little triangle up there in the top corner okay and so then that gets his gate in a quote neighborhood commercial type operation and we're trying to set you up to be able to do that legally and so that's why we're doing this it's not going to hurt his current cgch that he's got when he applies for that triangle where his gate is correct ultimately that's a decision for you all in the planning commission but i would suspect not okay but it wouldn't change what he'd all always be adding is that little section you're correct you'd be adding to it rezoning that little small swath correct you won't get the whole lot you'll get that portion only because i because i remember another we try to get the whole we try to get the whole lot and that's why i'm not going to speak for you earth planning commission but they have the ability to tell us let's just do the portion that zoned residentially and they seem open to that as based on previous conversations when he makes the applications for the entire lot the planning commission has the option to rezone only a portion of the lot if they so choose we will always make them aware that it can create problems but they ultimately hold the decision making i think this can get us where we need to be we're giving you the path to get there that's what we're trying to accomplish what happens if he walks into the planning commission and the planning commission doesn't agree with that and they get the whole thing they go with the whole lot so he doesn't want a whole lot does that council get an opportunity to overturn that he appeals it to us you have to put your hand in the elected official where are you we are citizens just like you we're not we we intermediate with the city and set policy you have to put your faith in us that we will go for that well it's not it's not only faith in us the fact is the planning commission's already voted five to one to move forward with what would put him in the place he wants to be so i

[1:48:58] think the planning commission's already inclined to support the gentleman and and uh and so i think again what you're hearing i think what you're hearing is look if you make this move then the next move uh looks like the dominoes are going to fall to put the gentleman wearing where he wants i think it's faith i think it's faith it's not a sure deal and anytime there's not a sure deal in planning people get upset they get worried it really puts them on edge we've seen entire neighborhoods like butler farms we've seen valley valley view and knickerbocker those residents in there every time you do it we do this to them it makes them worried and he he has to put his faith in us and i'm not sure why we can't right now say we want to just that triangle is the only part we'll allow for the application to apply to how come we can't say that right now to protect him you can't act on an application until it's been filed but understand that this group makes the final decision so if that's your intent you vote that way so we know it's probably going to happen how can we how come we cannot insure him that's my question we don't know when it's going to come from for the entire lot and that's his worry and i'm taking i'm taking care of my customers so to speak right here my the citizen is depending on us who are elected and he's unsure about what the process because he's putting the application in for his entire lot which hurts his business if it ever switched and i realized that we won't vote that way but but why not just make it clear right now if we can't because you can't that's my okay because he has the union applied and it's outside because you can because i mean so we can't make a special provision to for his um application to not include the entire lot i mean i get you have a clear agenda and a posted agenda and an open meetings act and on and on and on and it says consideration of approving an amendment to the vision plan component then you

[1:51:00] have assurance that that's putting you on the path to get where you want to go and then you've all been educated so that you can vote procedure that way as the procedures walk their way that's right um i mean i don't think there's anything else you can do so one nice comment mr hirschfeld just aj okay if you look at the current vision yes sir even without this i mean what would what we're talking about today really does not even affect whether he has or or could apply for the zone change of that little triangle correct he could apply for it today but if he applied for a commercial zone change and it does not match up with our vision plan we can't recommend approval of it with this change to the vision map that we're looking at now we could conceivably recommend approval of it because it would be consistent with the plan we're trying to set you up for success even though it's not going to be he's going to ask for heavy commercial and this is neighborhood commercial well and that's news to me the minute record from the planning commission talks about doing things like you know selling sodas and snacks and having a snack bar kind of business so it sounds like we need confirmation on what the actual business is to be desired as well well i i myself i don't want to impede progress and they ask you all the time why you want to be a council person so i guess i get to answer that today getting my packet late last night if it wouldn't hinder the process i would like to just move this to next week so i have a chance to look at it if that's going to hinder processed progress then we can you know counsel we can definitely take action but i think mr self the key thing that you just heard is that i mean what what i just heard was even

[1:53:04] if you make the change you may not be setting this up for the next step because the advocate is asking for something different than this then the process is moving us forward i think what you might want to do is table the item to allow you to talk with your constituent clearly understand what he wants and then kind of help make sure and so i think that's probably all all fine uh the only person that's being affected obviously is your constituent because we're slowing it down but we're gonna slow it down folks if uh if we even approve this and then it comes back and he wants heavy commercial and this this vision plan change doesn't allow that so you may as well slow it down and get it right the first time and make sure we can get it right uh so it looks like to me your idea of tabling it's a pretty good idea okay that's what i'd like to do and i'll make that as a motion okay i have a motion and a second to table number 19 so there can be some further discussion and and uh and really an update for the new council member okay all right any further question or comment on that i have just one quick one aj in the previous talks with planning heavy commercial was never mentioned i was not at the planning commission meeting so that's one of the reasons i didn't present this to you i'm not as familiar with it as mr hansen jeff do you remember were you there no okay the minute the minute record from this particular discussion at planning commission is in the background packet word for word the only mention we've got there is barbecue stand and potentially a you know selling drinks to college students type of thing the heavy commercial is is news to us there's some more intense activities along chadbourne street that are zoned appropriately now but in terms of on this property doing heavy commercial wasn't okay i just wanted to be part of that all right okay let's uh we have a motion in a second to table and allow further education and involvement so let's do that let me call for that vote all those in favor please say aye aye

[1:55:05] any opposed all right let's move to item number 20. what time is it oh i'm sorry yeah well after i tabled it i was thinking that public comment might not be necessary but i'm not i don't mind having it yes my name is jim turner and i think that councilman self's initial plan to table this is a good one but i think one of the things we also need to do is get the planning commission to broaden their look at this entire area especially and how it includes transportation and 50th street and connecting the coliseum to bryant was part of the original justification or original plan after the super arena was built with half that sales tax money that has not been followed through anything between chadburn and bryant that's still on the table they've looked at right-of-ways and everything else that needs to be updated and brought back and get going again especially with the amount of traffic we have now i don't think humble road was the route they wanted to take it was probably it's probably still not a good route but the planning commission needs to look at also the transportation of this area and let's get the vision plan to match what is actually capable of being there thank you okay thank you further public comment on that item all right i'm going to move this thing to item number 20. this is consideration of authorizing the city manager to execute a contract and it's in substantially attached form between catalyst urban development and the city of san angelo to carry out services regarding a master developer as outlined and we have an interim our presentation by our interim director of development services aj fober thank you your background report has a couple of different items one is the letter of intent that was submitted to us by the consultant

[1:57:07] you're all somewhat familiar with that either from speaking about it yesterday or about at a previous meeting you also have a short staff report that just outlines the process that we've been through to kind of jog your memory and so i'll go through that briefly we've been having this discussion since the beginning of 2011 when the master developer concept was first sort of discussed among this group and some other groups around the city you may remember that from january to april we had a request for qualifications that was out that was put together in january published in april we sent that out to a variety of firms with experience in the master developer type of concept as well as publish that online in a variety of areas and we did have one submission that was sent to us on behalf of catalyst urban development in august the ddc the downtown development commission actually spoke with staff and with catalyst development about the phase the scope of services the pricing variety of issues and officially made a recommendation to forward to you all to consider awarding the contract to this particular consulting firm we worked through the process of september and october trying to refine that scope of services get to provide you with something very detailed that you could look through and understand all parts of the process and then we of course had the joint session between the council at that time and the downtown development commission in december the action at that time specifically was that the council did number one accept the recommendation from the downtown development commission to award the contract to this individual firm they also approved the scope of service as presented in the letter of a tent and then there were two additional specific asks that the council wanted staff to look into one was to configure the contract in a way that this was done on a phase by

[1:59:09] phase process rather than as one entire contract the intent there would be that the individuals that we contracted with would perform phase one first come and present those deliverables to you all and then you as a group would determine whether or not you entered into contract on the next phase and so on and so forth and so we have made some substantial changes to the contract to make this contract encompass only phase one and to go no further without your permission the other item that the council asked staff to look into was to look at a funding source for the amount the amount for phase one as you may recall was 68 000 there was an additional 12 to 22 thousand dollars in expenses that would cover subcontracting and a variety of items which mr rutherford is here and can maybe shed some light on as well so that would be a total maximum cap of 90 000 and so we've worked with the budgeting staff to identify funding for that and mr dain would probably be better to talk about that than i would so we have taken care of both of those items that you asked us to look into so we're to the last step today what we're asking you to do today specifically is to take action that would allow the city manager to execute the contract understanding that is simply for phase one the phase one services as outlined in the letter of intent encompass a variety of tasks a lot of it is data analysis analysis of the land the property specifically the ownership of those properties public lands areas where the tax base may be declining to look at some market-based programming to also do some prioritization of projects and locations that would be best spent with our energy up front and then also to put together some items that we could use to carry out this intention that would include an

[2:01:11] implementation timetable packaging some of the programming and explaining how public-private partnerships could perhaps fund some of those projects and that would identify specifically three projects for priority and then lastly to identify potential investors and developers for those three projects so that is a very short summary overview but i'd be happy to answer any questions we do again also have mr parrish rutherford here with catalyst urban development that can also answer questions regarding the services if you have questions do i have questions on this item i do mr silvas aj i know that phase one you're looking at you know the 68 000 lump sum and then the 12 to 22 000 90 000 but then in phase two uh an additional ten thousand i mean it's more than ninety thousand i mean let's be clear the ninety thousand covers phase one and that's all that we're talking about contracting today just phase one we have uh an idea they have provided us you're correct um ten thousand dollars per month for six months on phase two but staff would not be authorized to even begin that step until the council has heard discussed it again and given us permission to execute the contract so you're correct that that is to be considered but all we're asking you for in terms of immediate expenditures is that initial amount and the bottom line what what would be their goal his goal to do what well what how about if we let him tell you that i think that's a good idea i mean i think the taxpayers want to know is the reason i'm asking council paris rutherford principal cattle of urban development nice to see you again the goal here is to define specific project opportunities for investment in downtown in a way that captures the energy that you're having that we heard about earlier in some of the presentations earlier today in a way that furthers the strengthening of the regional identity of downtown so that you've got daytime activity

[2:03:13] nighttime activity you've got strategic locations for projects that strengthens downtown itself that's very different than a pure market-led process where market kind of comes and looks at the easiest thing to do and then picks that off that's that is not necessarily a strategic process we would be taking you through a more of a strategic process so how do you strengthen that what well one thing we like to do is you'll look at existing anchors in downtown whether it be employment anchors retail anchors where key restaurants are where centers of activity are and we look at ways to better better connect them one thing that's clearly missing in downtown in my opinion is a nighttime population there's residential potential that could occur you see that all over the region certainly projects that we've been involved in have done that so you've got pockets of downtown that are operating pretty well retail on concho street obviously what's around shannon but then you've got zones in between that aren't necessarily so by having strategic infill whether it's coming into existing buildings or new construction that links some of these districts together it strengthens the regional profile of of the place of downtown urban development and redevelopment is different than what is happening say down on the loop where it's just purely a lan play and then there's retail or something that comes in this is about creating a place and really focusing in and orchestrating place making to use a word and the only way to do that is to analyze the difficulty of investment on particular blocks where you need to make those linkages so you can look at the amount of or the the number of owners on a particular block how difficult it would be to assemble that have discussions with the owners on some of these key blocks and what their potential plans are for their real estate looking at the the anchors like shannon and what their plans are and how best to leverage those plans in a way that again isn't just delivering new space in downtown but delivering it in a way that that strengthens the the programming of downtown and the kind of visual

[2:05:15] experience of downtown one of the in listening to your presentations earlier it seems to me that you've got a great opportunity right now with everything that's happening in the region and there's a lot of interest in activity that's occurring the question is whether that's harnessed in a way that leaves downtown and the whole city of san angelo and a better place at the end of the day versus a scattering of pad sites so the the one the strong jewel that you have is downtown it does distinguish you from other environments around we're urbanists we believe in that and trying to find a way to allow that investment to come in in a very strategic manner that that reinforces the sense of a medical district or the arts and history area or the the contra retailers and and restaurant opportunities that might plug in uh between there and the other employment areas of downtown i mean the there's only one entity that has all of downtown in mind and that's you there aren't there isn't one master uh landowner um that is looking and thinking strategically about how to phase investment so you know when you get into something like downtown reinvestment and and the strategy that that is therein really only the city is able to go through that process with folks like us i mean we're developers we're investors that's what we're doing all around texas right now when we saw your rfp for master development the first question i had was what's your plan you have a plan with a capital p but it doesn't have much teeth in it as it relates to implementation phasing the the issues specifically related to particular blocks and how those projects would go forward what the programming of the projects would be you have to have that in order to execute kind of that capital p planning vision that you all have prepared thus far i mean that's that's what we're interested in working with you on and whether we're involved in the vertical investment our partners or other groups to do things that we don't know that's the only way we can determine that is to go through this

[2:07:17] initial underwriting period that's that's let me ask let me ask and i assume or you can can you share some success stories out there that you've worked with cities sure we have worked we have worked on many urban redevelopment districts around the state areas of dallas houston if you know if you've been in dallas the the uptown district of dallas that's something we worked on that's delivered about five billion dollars to the tax base of dallas uh what's called the midtown district in in houston if you've been you were in houston recently the area between downtown and the medical center that's called midtown that's a strategy that we put together and you know much activity has happened there since even in smaller communities like downtown denton which also has a university has experienced a lot of new growth that's similar in a way to san angelo a place called garland similar they have there's a transit area and we worked on a reinvestment strategy for that in texas we the loft district of austin west of downtown as you make your way down 5th street towards lamar there's now a fully functioning residential mixed use district that is kind of all the rage we worked on that so we have a lot of experience in urban redevelopment and i think my personal connections to your community have continued to have us focused in on the potential we believe a lot in san angelo and what you all are doing as a regional center and we firmly believe that downtown strengthens the full city a stronger downtown is going to strengthen the whole city help position goodfellow moving forward you know if you're going to capture the growth in asu they're looking for certain things it all comes down i think to proper development in downtown and let me just say my last comment or question is i'm not very familiar i think i've been through there years ago garland and denton but are they comparable to us in a hundred thousand ninety thousand

[2:09:19] population yeah one of the interesting things about your size is and i think you heard it earlier when you were talking about the challenges with uh with pulling data and we have pulled some data and there are challenges out there and what you have there's big disconnects in terms of what is reported through your mpo or others so the size of your community is unique in the state actually i think in terms of it historically not having a lot of traditional real estate impact and and kind of investment so many of the areas that we've worked in have been in larger msas you know so some of the communities i mentioned are attached to larger msas but the concept of urban investment redevelopment it that's the same regardless of what market you're in because it's very targeted and customized on a block by block basis around an overall plan mr herzfeld um i like everything you're saying but it's it's really a synopsis of the the the joint session that we had january yes it was december december okay and so where you gave the full presentation and just as a note that may we may want to put a link or something to make sure that people see exactly what what was uh because that was a full-fledged presentation with all your experience and all these other locations and that that could be informed really my question is uh where's the money going to come from we have uh vacant positions at this point and we've taken those salary savings and captured them enough of we've captured enough of those to pay for this project okay i i'm i'm excited about this this is the culmination of three years about three years of progress of us trying to get to this point and so with that said i'll make a motion that we approve second okay i have a motion in a second to approve this as presented do i have further questions on the presentation and i i too liked what you say i mean i represent downtown i'm all for it but phase one we're just approving phase one

[2:11:22] yes sir the night what is the timeline i mean how long would the actual work effort itself is probably in the six to eight week range um one thing we'll need to interact with on staff is the degree of public interaction that we need to go through but the actual work effort itself is about six to eight weeks okay pretty quick okay other questions public input call for the vote all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed no okay i have one no so mr vardman okay i have uh let me looking at the time let me check in and make sure what uh on the agenda yo this is as good a time as any to go ahead and break and go into executive session we do have some items for the agenda for the executive session and so i i would maybe push through if we didn't but we do so we may as well break and go into executive session okay uh remember that item number 21 was tabled for a future agenda so when we come back we would be on item number 22 and we'd have 22 23 24 to go and then the follow up in administrative issues at this time what i'm going to do is take us into executive session and i'm struggling where is it there we go all right move us into executive session under the provision of the government code title 5 open government ethics subtitle a open government chapter 551 open meeting sub-chapter d exceptions to the requirement that meetings be opened section 551.072 to deliberate the purchase exchange lease or value of real property and 551.087 to discuss uh any an offer of financial or other incentive to a company or

[2:13:24] companies with whom the city of san angelo is conducting economic development negotiations okay we are right now at 11 52 entering executive session okay good afternoon let me call the meeting back to order we're entering uh back into regular session at 12 43 p.m and we'll start with item number 22. this is consideration of adopting the 2013 twin buttes reservoir recreation use plan and any action related there too we have a presentation by parks and recreation director carl white about a year and a half ago city council authorized that we developed this plan as you know the bureau of reclamation owns the twin buttes reservoir as well as about 8 000 acres around it we through agreement with them the city manages the property and because of the number of acreage there's a lot of room for recreation hunting boating windsurfing the bureau of recreation recommended that we develop this plan and with their help help fund it so the city the cost of the city was only nine thousand dollars we worked with texas outdoors consulting uh for the development of the plan it's now in its final draft stage and we're simply asking council to adopt this plan we would use it as a guideline moving forward and any specific recommendation that's going to be brought up in this plan would have to come back to council for consideration so with that i'm going to introduce lauren schrum who'll give you the presentation thank you carl good afternoon excuse me i'm a little bit under the weather so i hope i don't choke up here um i'm going to talk a little bit about what's involved in the trimbutes reservoir recreation use plan a little better how about that okay so part of this planning process we involved quite a bit of public input and i'm

[2:15:26] going to talk a little bit about that here in the next couple of slides but first i want to talk about twin buttes reservoir itself it was constructed in 1963 by the building of the tribute stam and there are 12 858 acres total of land nine 9 800 acres are in the conservation pool and the area is managed by the city of san angelo via a contract with the bureau of reclamation like cross said it is owned by the bureau the priorities of the bureau of reclamation are flood control irrigation municipal drinking water supplies and recreation and it's important to note that the priorities of this federal agency are water related and recreation is a lower priority for this for this federal agency as compared to others um so what we did is we did an assessment of the natural cultural resources out there as part of this plan we looked at the water bodies of course which is the main part of the of the area and then we looked at all the different vegetation the wildlife resources and the cultural resources there's quite a bit of extensive archaeological sites there at twin buttes and this picture here shows a couple of them that are very easily seen by the public some mortar holes where they used to grind seeds and nuts and things like that some of the prehistoric peoples and so that's very uh open to the public there are some areas where they're not so much but there are over 200 archaeological sites there at twin buttes that the bureau of reclamation wants to protect and then we looked at the current recreation use whether it's legitimized or not by the bureau this is what's happening out there at finn buttes today and that includes atv riding trail running mountain biking hunting fishing windsurfing kayaking geocaching camping and horseback riding so all this is is going on out there on those on that acreage uh challengers

[2:17:29] there's quite a few challenges there um some of you are pretty familiar with history i'm sure of twin beats reservoir um if you're not there's quite a bit of litter and illegal dumping that happens out there and there's a picture here of quite a bit of shotgun shells carpet plastic swimming pools couches big screen tvs if you take a drive out there you will see any number of things there's also some illicit activities happening that's been reported by our law enforcement out there and other citizens evidence of some potentially drug activity things like that there's little vehicular management basically that means that people can drive anywhere they can get their vehicle to and that causes all kinds of issues in terms of erosion blazing new trails low water levels is a huge challenge obviously given the conditions we have had lately with the drought the water is shrinking and that's a picture here of one of the ramps currently none of the ramps reach the water so that is an issue stakeholder group conflict is another issue or a challenge that twin buttes faces currently the groups have certain areas where they participate in activities and they've sort of adopted areas and built trails however there's no official rules or regulations sort of monitoring those and they overlap in areas where it it could create conflict in terms of even fatalities things like off-road vehicles driving on the same trails where people are trying to run and things like that and pop that that ties into the public safety which is the challenge and then there's also hunting so you bring in the mix of firearms here so we've got some issues that we want to try and manage and that's what this plan is addressing so part of the process of the plan is we looked at successful park models already out there and we looked at the texas state park model it's one of the best state park models out there in the nation and we looked to see what they did in

[2:19:30] terms of management and then we looked at off-road vehicle best management practices there are several examples of parks across the nation that are doing motorized trails successfully so we analyzed those and then we looked at hunting best management practices across different agencies to see what they were doing and then we looked at innovative partnerships that are out there to help manage these type of recreation areas and provide funding for improvements so the texas state park model some of the main criteria is vehicle control that is number one they have established road systems throughout any of their parks where vehicles can and can't go and they are normally constructed by wooden bollards or post and chain type things to manage where vehicles can go to protect the resources and public safety they also have designated use zones whereby they designate areas for sort of primitive zones where certain activities like on foot traffic can occur and then high use zones high impact zones where things like events can take place they also have controlled access which means there's a gate at the entrance and exits to any of the parks and either it's manned temporarily or in high seasons by volunteers or paid staff or it's locked at night and someone comes and unlocks it in the morning they also have a park host program which is also not just unique to the state park model it's a national trend that's going on right now with reduced budgets in all park agencies and that includes having volunteer labor come in and becoming park hosts where they live on site at a park in exchange for an rv site with electricity sometimes cable or things like that in water in exchange for their labor to help patrol man gates clean restrooms pick up trash run interpretive programs their volunteer labor's exchange for that spot and they help you know do things because their

[2:21:32] eyes on the ground public hunting program is another criteria that's part of the state park model it's very popular the state manages the wildlife populations they come in and survey and they manage the sites and and permit create a permitting process where people can come in and get a permit to come in and hunt also they have a litter management program at the state park model and they have consistently throughout the state parks they have established dumpsters where people can go and dump their trash and through the volunteer programs they also have litter cleanups interpretation and recreation is another component of this model that's important because if you're not interpreting for the public and providing recreational opportunities for the public you're not you don't have a support group to help fund the parks and to help protect them for the future then unified management signage rules and fees is another important criteria of the state park model every state park you go to they will have unified signage unified rules unified fees so the public knows what to expect when they come into that particular park they know what behavior is acceptable they know what kind of fees they'll be charged they know what the rules are and they know that there's always some some management on site watching over things that are going on in that park and this picture is just an example of one of the unified maps that they have at all of the parks so then we looked at some of the off-road best management practices because off-roading at twin buttes is really popular currently and it has a very strong stakeholder group associated with it so we looked at quartz mountain nature park in oklahoma which is also on bureau of reclamation land so that was important comparison we looked at barnwell mountain recreation area that's in east texas it's a very popular

[2:23:35] park area that has received quite a bit of funding through the motorized trails program through texas parks and wildlife we looked at black mountain off road of venture area in kentucky and we looked at lake meredith national recreation area in texas that's just up near amarillo all these places have off-roading and successful trails and that's a map there of the black mountain trails so in your plan that you have in your packet um we have charts these compared all the best management practices at all the different agencies it looked at you know the permits and fees that they charge where that funding is coming from if it's coming from say an off-highway vehicle decal that everybody has to buy or whether it's fees to enter the park we looked at rules we looked at access hours whether public consumption of alcohol was allowed whether they had mark trails all these kind of things and we compare twin buttes to those other areas and we as you can see there's quite a bit of things that we're lacking in here at trump beats there's just not a lot there there's currently not a permitting structure the stakeholder group has been self-policing themselves fairly well but there's a lot of other activity out there that's going on that is outside of the of the core group and it's not controlled hunting is another big activity that goes on the tributes and there's another large stakeholder group associated with it so we wanted to take a look specifically at that activity and we looked at the colorado river municipal water district which is in charge of ohiv in the hunting areas around there we looked at lake meredith national recreation area we looked at laguna atascosa national wildlife refuge national forest and grasslands in texas san angelo state park and then twin buttes so we've got a variety of agencies here all the way from the regional level to the national park service the national wildlife service and national forest and the state park system so we could see what other agencies were doing and again some best management practices charts comparing in terms of permits and fees

[2:25:39] hunting seasons bag limits what types of ammunition is allowed what types of firearms are allowed all these things currently there are two i want to say two rules right now twin beads in terms of hunting and by they're not widely known it's not there's only a few places you can find information on the city's website and there's just a lot of misinformation out there in the hunting community as to what is and what isn't allowed basically all state laws still apply and game wardens patrol the area as well as local law enforcement but there's really not a managed hunting program and i and we recommend later on in this plan that that we move towards that direction we also looked at some innovative partnerships there are some things going on at certain places around the state like at lake bryan outside bryan college station texas where some of the organized groups are really active in managing the site with with the local authority and the the mountain biking community has created an entire trail system there and it's hugely popular they host major events there that bring in thousands of people and they also have triathlons there so it's something that we can replicate here some of the stakeholder groups are already doing that and it can only be expanded for the future and then there's some funding partnerships there that are going on they've actually contracted out to a managing entity there's a private restaurant that has been created there on the lake front and they are managing the campgrounds for them and they're hosting other special events like concerts that also bring in revenue for the park on a percentage basis basis with the managing partner so we talk about that in the plan and how that may apply for tributes as well so then we had a lot of public participation you know i talked about a lot of stakeholder groups i've heard from all of them and we had a workshop where we brought them all in and we facilitated that workshop with a modified nominal group technique basically it's a process where we start out in small groups and ideas are discussed and then those small groups present their ideas to the larger group

[2:27:42] and then larger group votes on the ideas and priorities that they think are the most important and that helps promote inclusion of ideas and gets to a better product in terms of planning versus the few in the lab who always tend to speak up the most it's a great process and ends up being a collective process everyone comes out with the vision feeling like they got their input in and we also use some of the data from the earlier parks and recreation open space plan where we did some surveying online some of that data applied to twin views as well because it talked about fees and other things that tributes and improvements that wanted to be that they wanted to be made and then we held another public meeting it was just general public meeting open session anybody come in and say what they wanted and we got a lot of comments from that as well so the workshop results are tabulated in the plan and there's a lot there i'll just highlight the main ones trash management and cleanliness was one of the top themes of that workshop basically citizens and stakeholders felt that we need to do a better job of cleaning that place up and maintaining it and getting rid of the illegal dumping issue adding restrooms was the second highest thing whether that be flushing vault compost something depending on the area of the park some kind of restrooms is what they wanted added and then maintaining access to the water for all user groups was the third highest criteria and priority and that is the challenge because of the fact that the water is still receding and then maintaining areas for multi-use and instilling a multi-user trail ethic among constituents that was another top priority so maintaining areas for people to continue to do the activities they've always done but also providing for public safety so we came up some planning guidelines and basically we broke it down into the need for recreation use zones we don't these are not too detailed basically they're just talking about like i said high impact zones where certain areas are going to take place where there's a

[2:29:44] high impact on the resource obviously these are going to be not areas where the sensitive archaeological sites are the bureau would not like that um so those are the primitive zones certain areas where there's things they want to protect where there's special resource we want to protect then we have hunting zones where hunting activity can take place and we have off-road vehicle use zones where off-road vehicle use can take place and not conflict with someone hunting or someone biking or walking or birding all those things this is a map of the current hunting areas and conceptual maps later on in the plan detail um what hunting areas should remain most of them should remain intact a few of them have been changed so management recommendations after all the public input and analysis we came up with a few recommendations basically we recommend that staff work to develop a friends group for this area there's already a huge stakeholder community whether it be wind surfers or off-road users or mountain bikers or kayakers or hunters they're out there staff should help to work to bring all those groups together into one friends group and work towards 501c3 status that allows not only for that group to adopt the park and help maintain it and operate it but to receive funds that the city cannot acquire through other grant sources so it's a win-win situation in terms of adopting the park and bringing in funding we also recommend that they adopt a park host program like i mentioned earlier where some volunteers come in to help manage the site we also recommend on-site management at some point the the fact of the matter is is that the success of all recreation areas across the board and all agencies there's some sort of on-site management there this is such a large parcel of land for local law enforcement to monitor they just can't be everywhere at once and if someone is there on site 24 7 it helps deter a lot of the illicit illegal activity that we want to avoid

[2:31:46] establishment enforcement of rules is another recommendation obviously that coincides with on-site management but it also means more law enforcement patrolling and or also annexation of the entire tributes area currently there's some issues legally with enforcing all of the rules and codes and ordinances because of the fact that the entire area is not in the etga so i know that is something that we need to move forward with at some point and then entrance fees we do recommend charging entrance fees the level is is not determined at this point it's going to depend on the analysis of the other recreation areas and what amenities are there at this point there's not very many amenities so there wouldn't be a huge entrance fee but at some point as you make investment you have to recoup with some sort of entrance fee and also insurance fees will help deter the unwanted behavior no one will really pay hopefully three dollars to come in and dump a load of trash when there's someone at the gate collecting fees other recommendations include signage currently there is little to none out there no signage in terms of rules no signage in terms of which way to go if you know twin buttes then you know your way around but if you're new if you're a visitor you have no way of knowing where you're going an interpretive signage as well would be helpful vehicular management that's another recommendation i talked about that the bureau wants an established road system there that's one of their requirements essentially unfettered vehicle access is not condoned and not not in line with regulation with federal regulation litter management again one of the top things that came out of the public meetings we need to have some kind of management program installed and a managed hunting program like i recommended previously capital improvements reclamation can

[2:33:48] cost share on a 50 50 basis with the city because they are landowners so depending on budget availability capital improvements can be made that way i encourage staff to work with the partners the stakeholder groups that are already there they are ready to go they're talking about fundraising efforts and getting volunteer labor and donating materials so they're on board with helping in any way they can there does need to be a road infrastructure established i know operations has some plans already in place for that restroom facilities like i mentioned whether they be something as simple as a porta potty or a vault toilet something needs to go in there and then enhancement of trail systems that are currently there and then an entrance station signage and gate is recommended for capital improvements and that's a picture there of sort of a low-cost outdoor open day elements entrance station special events we also recommend enhancing the special events that are currently already going on there and working with stakeholder groups to enhance those expanding them to increase use of the recreation area and then increasing revenues as well through participation in these events the plan also talks about funding opportunities and it lists 30 different grant opportunities that are out there from trail building grants to capacity building grants for organizations to help get this 501 c3 off the ground to bike trial grants to boat ramp grants to stewardship grants to put on programs there's all kinds of things out there and then of course there's a few conceptual maps in the plan that um it's hard to see here but in your copy you'll see a little bit better the zoning is represented by the different colors of lines and we've pinpointed areas where we think that the restroom should go and if you know tributes you know there was russians out there at one point and there was an intern station all those things we're kind of going along those same lines and

[2:35:51] saying they need to go back in we've proposed some new camping loops for the groups that are already out there using the area and we've also talked about areas where we need to maintain access to the water because that's important for the wind surfers and the fishermen and the kayakers they need to be able to get down as the water recedes we need to move our infrastructure just in terms of roadways down to the water to allow them to maintain access and here's another conceptual map of the south pool and we have all the existing pipe rail and gates that are already there on the maps as well and we talked a little bit about in the plan uh which one of those should be closed and which should be opened and if the groups are allowed access through those pipe rolls and gates it perhaps we recommended a group permit system where they are allowed access through a group permit process so that's in the slideshow next steps like carl said today we're just asking that you recommend to adopt this plan and then after that we plan on submitting the motorized trails map to the bureau to get their approval of that actual motorized trail map and then we look forward to submitting an application to the texas parks and wildlife motorized trolls grant program to go ahead and get funding to start making improvements the good thing about that program is it's not just limited to trail work you can get restroom developments campground developments other things associated with those trails so we're looking forward to doing that and i will take any questions if you have them okay do you have questions on the on the presentation mr herzfeld your uh your stakeholder meetings yes that you had what kind of participation did you have on the state code stakeholder group meeting we specifically invited stakeholder groups that we were aware of in the area and we put out sort of the call on the forums the hunting forums and things like that we got about 36 i believe um citizens and they represented the hunting community the fishing community kayaking the geocaching the

[2:37:53] running we we balanced it out so we had people from each group and we actually um what's the word immersed the different groups together we forced the different groups to sit at different tables so uh one representative from each group was at a certain table and that would allow them to mix their ideas and to come together on a vision so that was um a smaller group because it was that workshop format the general session meeting that we had we had over i want to say 50 or 60 people the san angelo dirt riders had a huge group come out because they're a very strong group we had some hunters we had a lot of people that live around nazareth and from buttes come out so we had a good participation great and so you were very pleased with the stakeholders as far as the true cross section absolutely that it was covering it was covering all facets yeah all recreation groups absolutely yes mr alexander how this may be a carl white question i want to know was there a discussion on fee how did the fees so we've done this before we had fees figured out and this goes over to alicia now about how come we might have to annex twin buttes to apply rules and ordinances but fees do we have a recommendation there how do they fit in this plan does this plan have anything to do with it is that a separate deal we well we have a fee recommendation it was in the parks and recreation master plan because it was a joint fee for lake nazareth and twin buttes so it was an annual pass to get access to both for residents including ivy though i mean we did discuss ivy there didn't we ivy lincoln ivy fees this access to twin buttes no no because i mean not that i'm aware of the colorado river municipal water district is in control of ivy and and they i mean we could talk with that agency and see about the more you cross over the better one pass gets them to all these places and it's better for for the common person uh

[2:39:55] but gates people always ask me when the gates going in or you know that comes up all the time the gates and the pipe birthday just hitting me with that question all the time the piper project and the gates that's that was completed last uh last winter so we can lock the gates when we need to and we do from time to time when we get significant rainfall to keep the roads from getting torn up and uh for instance we've got the the south entrance to the south pool locked up now because of the pumping operation so we have the ability to lock the gates we just don't have the process in place to allow for access if we keep all the gates locked so right now none of the gates are locked unless we need to have them locked okay in the fee process if we did charge a fee then you would have a key to the gate is that how it would work yeah the plan did not recommend using the key system it recommends using a combination system so that way it can be changed periodically you know not every week but maybe every year to limit some of the so when you get your new permit you get the new combination type deal but we recommend that we create an actual entrance at the main north pool entrance where people would be coming in because we have this issue of say there's visitors coming in there's a lot of people you're talking demand manned yes whether by volunteer or paid staff labor we have this issue of say there's visitors coming from out of town to come ride the motorized trails and there has been there was actually several people here at the public meeting who came from abilene to talk about that they drive down here to ride the trails and they may not have access to the city departments from eight to five to be able to gain get their pass to be able to get access so we're asking there'd be some place where if it's not at the park somewhere else where they can get access to it after hours per se convenience stores well in a manned gate would you know gate would do it would do that obviously or a park host that's on site

[2:41:58] living there to be able to just knock on their camper and say i'm from out of town i need to pass kind of a thing okay and lacio are we going to have to annex all of twin buttes to be able to put ordinances into effect on that property the ordinance these ordinances that regulate conduct and and you know these type i don't know um i'd have to look at that it's really under the contract i think it has more to do with the contract with the bureau of reclamation and what the contract gives us leeway to do is where i would spend my energy okay because i mean we're charged with taking care of it so i don't think we have any problem with my my first question so we're not prevented from applying rules no i mean what i would say what i would say is i think the rule if there is any limit on what we can or can't do it's probably in the contract or in the federal regulations and i've been in extensive discussions over the last several years about how you know twin twin buttes and their owner the ownership by the bureau uh you know they really wanted to understand what is it that we could enforce um whether we were enforcing their rules whether our folks would have to get dis deputized as federal officers to enforce their park rules and i think uh the better angle would be to have our own rules and enforce them and then have uh concurrent jurisdiction so we have been the jurisdictional issues are very touchy and and you know we're trying to map them out but as far as annexing i think that was also discussion that i engaged in with the bureau and aj and we were also looking at them relinquishing some of the lands or us annexing so we've been working on this project with them um but it takes a resolution it takes some kind of understanding a final understanding to go ahead and implement these rules correct i mean we can't just we can't just do it

[2:43:59] now because we don't know we've been working on that with folks uh from the bureau from austin and you know just trying to come up with um a mutual target of you know of what it is that we want to regulate and enforce and i think part of the carl's progress and his mission is also to come up with some defined plans so that we can do so and so we're on our way this plan would help if we approve this and so i guess my final question the final question everybody's going to want to know is what's the eta what you know when is this going to happen when when does this all come together and we can then implement these rules is it a year from now or is it less or more it's a process so i'm not sure i can say that we also i'm sorry we also have to look at the plan and see i mean there's costs associated with uh what's being recommended also so we'd have to take a look at that and see as far as what fees would be coming in and how much the city would possibly even have to subsidize something like that so um it's it's it's still something we'd have to look at from a financial standpoint also okay motion to approve second i've got a motion and a second to approve but do i have other questions on the presentation um i have two questions i'm going to need some clarity on what what does this plan specifically do on off-road vehicles what would you characterize as is the current environment and what are you what are you offering on off-road vehicle use okay and then the second one is the same thing characterize hunting now and hunting after this plan is in place so i want you to characterize hunting before and after and i want you to characterize off-road vehicle use before and after no problem sure

[2:46:03] yeah those are the two big activities and two of the most contentious ones i might add currently off-road use any off-road use out there by atv or motorcycle is not legitimized in the eyes of the bureau we are those who are doing it are violating federal regulations it's kind of been a out of sight out of mind type of deal for them for for many years but they want the city to take action to help manage this process they do have areas where they have legitimized off-road vehicle use like at quartz mountain nature park which we analyzed here in the plan and they are open to that process so the next step would be to provide the actual gps coordinates of the current trails now to the bureau they will look at it they will overlap it with their sensitive archaeological sites and they will tell us if we need to reroute a few of those and then move forward it's legitimized the activity is promoted and we can move forward with providing more amenities for that group in terms of hunting currently designated area a designated area where that is one of the bureaus how do i know if i'm out there you know walking or hiking or hunting that i that i am or i am not where i'm going to get run over by an atv or a motorcycle right and and how do they know where i'm going to be so that they don't have to worry about coming over a hill and there i am walking on their trail we recommend utilizing the signage recommendations that i mentioned where we have and currently there is some signage out there that the group the trail group has done themselves but overall signage and then creating maps right now on the city side you can sort of see hunting areas that's all you can see there's no over arching map designating what you can do where and then yes the bureau will only approve motorized use on a designated trail you will not be able to drive your atv anywhere you want it will be on maintained trails that are marked and they have arrow markers to tell you the direction there will be single tracks you can only go one direction so you won't run into anybody currently

[2:48:06] some of them are single tracks some of them aren't because they're just dirt trails in some areas so that will help manage that activity in provide rules for engagement so hunting currently like i said there's a lot of misinformation out there if you go read the forums online you know is this allowed is this not allowed do i have to have a permit do i not i don't have a permit oh my gosh this is great can i bait you know what can i shoot with there's just no been no rules it's sort of been in no man's land there's a great group of hunters out there who are following all the rules and those stakeholders were invited to that workshop and they are all about managing the area not allowing people to shoot whatever they want whenever they want there's a lot of skeet shooting going on there target shooting pistol shooting all kinds of things all that is not technically allowed currently by city ordinance nor federal regulations so that's the current status of hunting right now temporary blinds that are becoming permanent blinds being built out there people bringing brush and trash from there i shouldn't say trash brush and pallets and things like that from their home to construct blinds all those things and that's not allowed via federal regulations either no permanent blinds are allowed they must be if if you want to allow that you can create a permitting process where you allow and they tag it and it's gone within 24 hours all those things so that's the current status and this plan recommends a managed hunting program whereby you actually specify which you know types of firearms are allowed where they're allowed maybe actually even divvying up your hunting zones into just a water waterfowl area excuse me versus a deer hunting area that kind of a thing does that help yes ma'am and access to those different parts because that's the you know when you look at the hunting zones now one two three four i mean they're

[2:50:07] they're all over particularly on the waterfront and so i'm trying to understand how they would access those because some of those if it's only by foot it's it's too far yeah essentially the hunting zones currently is just the entire lake area divided up into zones there's there was no rhyme or reason necessarily it's they're just bounded by uh the roads and the creeks and they named it to help people identify where they were going essentially like i'm going to hunting zone 2. the new zones limit that a little bit and we provide access points to those areas via vehicle but only to certain areas and so they're allowed to get in there and then walk from that point to their specified spots a lot of the other agencies that we looked at do not even allow vehicle traffic in there whatsoever it's complete walk-in including ohiv you have to walk in from the parking area with your tree stand on your back and your gun and same with the the wildlife service the fish and wildlife refuges the same thing you walk in so okay thank you anything else other questions on the presentation before i call for a vote okay is there any public input on this before i call for a vote all right i have a motion and a second to accept this as presented i'd like to call for the vote all those in favor please say aye aye and any opposed okay thank you very much thank you we're on to item number 23 this is consideration of approving additional improvements at civic civic league park to support the operation of the international water lily collection including a new basin pavilion and water misting system and we have a presentation by our parks and recreation director carl white again this is really conceptual we're asking councils to consider these improvements conceptually um city staff has reviewed these requests

[2:52:11] and city staff does recommend their proceeding we did have this discussion item in at the last parks and recreation advisory board meeting and they do recommend approval of moving forward with these improvements one member did vote against it and that was in regards to the large live oak tree that's adjacent to the basins the improvements in this scenario would be funded by others not the city the the improvements would require the removal of the large live oak tree that's on the north side of the collection and under this scenario the city would need to enter in into an agreement with the group in this case the san angelo council of garden clubs and and then with that agreement we would return to city council for consideration of approval of the approval of that agreement with the improvements if they are implemented the city estimates that the additional maintenance costs to the city would be 2500 a year just a quick orientation the international waterload collection is located at civic league park founded by the north concho river peco street beauregard and park street it is home to the international water lily collection which is world known we've been holding the annual lilly fest at this location for the last day we're on our eighth year now this is a rendering a conceptual rendering going back to 2004. the addition of the the basin over here in this quadrant was envisioned back at that time we actually developed construction documents for its construction and when we had the funding we didn't have enough funding to build to build this last basin so we didn't build it but we do have construction documents for it conceptually we wanted to do it back back in 2005. improvements at civic league park are in the adopted capital improvement plan specifically the addition of this basin the misting system there's three three

[2:54:16] major items the addition of the basin the the pavilion and the misting system the council of garden clubs has received a 20 000 grant from the san angelo health foundation for this misting system it is something that i think that we could proceed with outside of the agreement to allow to be constructed because it's really it doesn't require construction documents it's the installation of a pump and some lateral pipes and some standards and some emitters so i think that could go go ahead the funding is there this is just a conceptual rendering of the pavilion let me back up and show you the pavilion would be located at this general location where there's some garden beds right now just behind the live the live oak tree it's a good spot for that it could be used for rentals as you know there's different weddings down there wedding receptions it's also a place for education in terms of the water lily collection so we could get some rental revenue out of it it's a good spot for it and it would take up the place of if we removed the tree we would still have shade with the pavilion so this is just really conceptual rendering it's not necessarily this is what it's going to look like but just the thought is that we could add a pavilion along that slope on that north side and uh provide some shade for people who visit the collection which tree has been removed this is the large live oak tree that's really just it's too close to the collection uh the tree's been there for a while and this this basin right here is built in the depression in 1936 i believe by the wpa it was intentionally built as a reflecting pond there used to be rose beds along either side but it hasn't really served that purpose in a long long time there's been water lilies in this basin for decades in 2003 we added these two raised basins here and then 2005 we added this one this one and this one

[2:56:18] we didn't add this one because of the money and its proximity to the tree but really the tree is too close to the collection every march when live oaks do drop their leaves and of course the oak tassels and the acorns fall into primarily this base and then somewhat in this basin and mr landon is here we have an agreement with mr landon with to operate this collection he can speak to that yes ma'am are you available for uh let me be sure mr alexander was through oh i'm sorry i'm sorry i just i'm gonna go on what he's saying anyway go ahead sorry okay mr alexander is done miss farmer okay i just wanted to know if carl was going to be available for a commercial as good as the one on the swimming pool if y'all haven't seen it you need to see it that's not on the agenda it's good mr hirschville how big is that oak tree i believe it's about 28 inches he's he's talking height no i'm talking the diameter of it about 28 inches maybe okay let me tell you i'm i'm i'm maybe a and crazy but i cut off a portion of my house i cut off a portion of my house to save there you go a pecan tree okay i cut off a portion of my house to save a pecan tree i'm with you everything except that with you but i've struggled for this for a long time in my mind the collection is more important than the tree and the council and garden clubs has committed to adding additional trees if this tree is taken out they'll come back and plant at least five trees and so if not more in the park carl part of the discussion just and i didn't look at the minute record but as i recall part of the discussion back when this the other basins were built was that when the money was available

[2:58:21] council would consider this and the tree was discussed extensively and there was some you know there was no vote but there was a lot of indication from council that when they came back don't come back asking to remove the tree until you have the money available and you have plans and you're ready to build and then they would seriously look at that so that's just a little history of prior council discussions okay thank you let me just say this on mr alexander i have mr silvas next okay okay i'm i am totally on board with with kendall because my question is how old is the tree tree was planted by a squirrel according to jimmy rogers which is part zoom intended back at that time it was a volunteer in other words it wasn't planted by the parks department he let go it's a co-dominant tree which means it will probably fail we have trimmed it we have trimmed it for some time to make uh when the 2010 symposium was their iwgs we trimmed it up so now it's real lofty it reads in the wind eventually parks will have to take it out anyway because it's a tree and a living entity and will die the thing of it is if you want to hold up a capital improvement project for tree then i don't i don't know how that's going to work with me the thing about it is is the tree's got a lot of problems as far as uh the park maintenance keeping the leaves the trash and oak trees the trashiest tree on the planet i wish it were 300 feet the rule of thumb for botanical gardens is for and this is kind of what we're talking about here in civic league park the rule of thumb is for every 10 feet of tree heights you have 50 feet of distance because of root intrusion this tree is this tree's already gone into the primary basin which has got a liner so it's ruining everything we have it's also the root system would most likely be in number two number two carl is right there these drain systems have already been

[3:00:24] installed their pvc pipe the courthouse recently had to dig up the whole front yard of their courthouse because the trees invaded their system uh which had to be fixed you know so we're looking at something that uh well the collection cannot continue it the re the reason is is because of all the silage and trash that goes into the pool once leaves and trash and let's face it an oak tree starts out and drops its leaves in may and goes for a month and it tassels then it goes ahead and we get the new leaves and they get honeydew that comes off the aphids that go on my lilies and then we got the acorns for the rest of the year so all the tropical season this is dumping trash into the pools i can only drain the pools once a year because once the collection is in gear and the plants are growing if they grow then you know i can't clean out anything can't sweep it around and it's 75 000 gallons that you're in this primary basin so we wouldn't want to waste it anyway it wouldn't be wasted it all goes into the river but the water uh is not really the issue that it it putrefies to the point that the lilies won't grow because it's anaerobic you can't if you dump it's kind of like if you took all your household trash in your house and dumped it in your living room for a year think how that would be that's what i deal with with this tree kenwood damage 300 feet this way or that way or anyway and it's right smack dab in the way have you seen damage to the existing ponds you were talking about that in the liner the liner was put in by myself uh in the city of san angelo they didn't know what to do the individual that was involved at that time was bill mccalanahan he did not know what to do to try to salvage this pool it was riddled with cracks we were losing about 2 000 gallons a day so i couldn't grow the plants because of the chlorine inclusion so we

[3:02:26] put so much water in there that from the city system that the plants would die so we didn't really know what we would do it was going to cost about five hundred thousand dollars to fix the pool the jackhammer don't put it back but it was archival anyway uh it was built in 30 you say 36 i think it's 34 it was built so it had a lot of historical significance here in the city but there was no way to save it until we figured a way that we could put a liner in it and shoot the liner over the cracks you know and this stuff came together as an epoxy came together was shot on and it saved the pool and we only paid well because i was a director at the time the guy that put it in there said if we could use this as an example and advertising for him he'd do it for me for do us for forty thousand dollars as opposed to 50. so we saved a little money there but we saved the pool many people after the fact that bill had people that built the pool family members back in the 30s thanked me for that not for the water lilies per se but the fact that we saved something that was an historical certificate so i guess my next question probably is mute because i was going to just ask what if we could not build around the tree but it sounds like the tree shed its leaves and its acorns is the biggest pro i hate to get rid of the tree i really do you sorta got me sold on the idea but i i i'm kind of like kendall i love trees and i this is one that my question would have been you know the age of the tree which is probably pretty old but i just i can't see getting rid of it but it sounds like it probably has to happen i've i've got a point if the tree stays it makes no sense to add this basin and it's really hard to keep anything in this basin here angelo has something unique in the water little collection we're known around the world for this collection we're not known for this tree we're known for the

[3:04:29] collection people come from around the world to see the collection they don't come to see the tree what is it this other tree right here on the left is it on the west side of the it is does that on the right on the high ground above does that effect that's it's a juvenile side okay turn around so it's upright it's not it's not wide no let's not touch that one okay miss yourself i i understand the tree and i can go along with the removal of that tree for the lilies and and this is uh i i guess maybe this is a future agenda item uh which i don't guess is the appropriate time but i've noticed in some of our other parks which i think are some of the great assets of san angelo that that some of the other trees are dying uh and i know some could be from oakwood but but some of them aren't necessarily oak trees i i'd really like to know why some of those trees or other trees are dying you know if y'all could and i said that i guess that's probably not the approach okay we'll take a note we'll bring it back up and make sure it makes an agenda one more question okay mr alexander did you lo did you would you like to speak yeah uh you know okay boy it's hard to say i'm looking for my pictures for one of these events and that tree is part of the spirit of the place we just talked about it with downtown he didn't say spirit of the place but there's a place and that tree makes it a part of this place and it is hot and it's to have a tree that big is is it's an asset so that's history i can i might go for removing the tree if you'll put 10 more trees in in that park it wasn't there when we're in drought level wasn't there a tree there sir threat level zero or or what do you call it conservation level when we go back to conservation level what level one you can plant but you need four gallons a day for four years you really need conservation we hit that it triggers 10 trees go in

[3:06:34] cost 200 a piece or whatever including platinum and beautify that park with other live oaks of the trees and then in 30 years we look back and we have a better place in all respects okay say what you just proposed that 10 trees go in to that park to replace the one tree we're taking out well uh that i think there's a cost but because the cost of taking that tree out really okay thank you it's it's a it's a mr silva's ken one last question it sounds like you're gonna have to chop it down anyway but how how difficult would it be to move the tree i guess it's too large to move well there's a city in in this i don't remember where it is you're gonna have to dig there anyway so it just did that they moved it's custom a quarter of a million dollars but it was a sacred thing kind of a an archival the tree was you know valuable to people and there was a building it's like i told harold dominguez one time i said you want the tree in the tree for me it's in my front office like in this building sitting and we make a little patch in the hole and and we keep it and keep the tree here the thing about it is i think that that's a real good point from alexander about adding trees but the thing about civic league park and i think eventually this was this was back in the administration with mr uh tom adams that there was a there was a forward plan going and ricky rick knows the guy i don't think i remember who the individual was that i was put with and married with they were going to turn this park into a botanic garden eventually which is the only part to really do that because of the water feature that i've built here the thing about that is is that you don't follow you have to follow that rule that's in botanic gardens for every 10 feet of height you're 50 feet away from a water estuary or an impoundment and in that case all the criteria is met this one's smack right dab in the middle of a pool where you can't grow anything so i'm losing the primary basin now because we've trimmed it to this point it's become such a canopy it takes over

[3:08:36] a third of the part that it drops all his silage so i'm losing i won't have this built if we don't build the one we're talking about that's getting funded uh i will lose number two anyway which is there and then the big primary primary i'm gonna lose it because so much trash you can't get the anaerobic bacteria and stuff that goes in there you can't get the lilies to grow because this is a concrete impact we have a lot of trash in here and then on this other end uh right here we put a memorial tree which is another live oak and it's pitched at 20 degrees towards the fallover and it's got a south wind pushing mr begno says replace that right away with something like a texas persimmon or something that would last for the length of the time that these because these trees get big and to me i'm like everyone else really they're sacred when they get big they're good things to have this one's smack dab in the living room though and in that context also it's co-dominant now this is what you need to think about this is as many testament testimony that i gave i gave you this much stuff about eight years ago why this tree was a danger eventually it's gonna crack and fall now it's gonna when it does it's gonna take out your part it's gonna be ruined your investment is wasted if it falls and and rick's put a lot of money in that new fence that we got down there that that uh chain-link wrought iron fence that keeps out the animals and i appreciate that because we just had a train link eventually i mean that's what we had originally is that it's but the park is internationally known it's like mr white says it's not known for a tree we're known for the lilies that i put in there and i put the finest stuff on the planet because i've got the largest collection period god is next to me yes sir thank you consideration of approving additional improvements to the civic league park to support the operation of the international water lily collection including a new basin

[3:10:40] pavilion and water misting system authorizing city staff to negotiate an agreement for the construction of the improvements with the san angelo council of government garden clubs you've had a presentation you've had good or good debate about the tree and those kinds of things i'm seeking a motion i would like to ask a question that's the question that's the question it says in your proposal that the misting system where are you going to mount it it says above i read was reading the detail and then it says above what's above to put your misdeed and pipe and stuff through the misting system uh because it's ugly if it's standing up no there's standards like this and you know you've seen them around uh oh places like uh i would say restaurants are not restrooms and outdoor things and it cools the system the reason the misting system was part of this project and it's already paid for more or less uh is to cool the park down when this park was developed it was to put in with the pavers and the sidewalks and it's down in a pit so if you've been you've been to civic league you've seen it looks thing of it is this gets hot hotter than hades and the tree's good for a point but it it takes away also because here's what happens the misting system will cool apart 20 degrees so their own standards there's not a pipe or anything around ugly i told them i said i won't stand for that the mystic symptom cools the park well that was that was my question though where are you going to put it there's nothing to mount it on well the misting system goes on standards and the water comes from the basin the water water basin now the guy that's going to put it in recommends it very much so to get rid of the silage and trash that's being put in there by the tree because he's got to filter that water and that water is aged water he can't i had the same question but i'll let carl explain it because i was concerned about the aesthetics okay carl if you could explain how that attaches yeah what's the standard

[3:12:42] those standards would be like you see but basically we have lateral lines which wouldn't be seen that'd be underground these are the standards he's talking about the ones that go upright and the top of the emitters we're talking about placing them is on like at the corners corners of the fences you just see a single black pipe that's above the water but you could place them out of sight and it's not going to be a hose that's okay thank you going from stand to stand yeah you know and the way it works is that they work when we need them and if we don't we don't and this is 40 000 gallons a year is what it's going to take mr yourself i'm sorry i'll move approval second i have a motion for approval from mr self a second from mr hirschfeld to further comments or questions before i call for this vote okay they can't come on this okay they can't come on this motion huh you're right you're good that's right he can't add the team the ten trees to the motion but but rick said we're going to get 10 trees write that down paul write it down wait that's something we could put in the agreement we still have to bring the agreement back to city council so it could be in the agreement not notwithstanding i think you need to be careful too about where you're telling them to place the 10 trees i mean yeah that's it that's a very good point okay so so i mean it wouldn't even necessarily be in this park it's just but anyway okay yeah the council of garden club for years is said they would give trees if we could get rid of the one that's in the way to make room for something because we have generations of people coming up that's gonna appreciate the trees so i think that that's a real good bid to put something back if you're gonna take it i agree with that i have a motion in a second to approve this and so i'm looking for public input call for the vote all those in favor

[3:14:45] please say aye aye any opposed okay move on to item number 24. this is the first public hearing and consideration of introducing an ordinance amending the 2012-2013 budget for grants new projects and incomplete projects i have a presentation by our budget manager morgan chegwooden good afternoon before you i have some routine items that are uh funded already no use of general fund uh fund balance or anything like that i'll go through them each uh certainly stop me if you have any questions the page i'll be going over is about the fourth page of my background there's some summary information here but uh it's the page titled proposed budget amendment additional information and i'll just go item by item here if it's your pleasure the first item there before you is aep energy recovery rebate recall that building the facilities maintenance division has been allowed as they make improvements that that yield energy efficiency to apply for these funds and we did receive five thousand two hundred ninety eight dollars uh mid-year and fiscal year thirteen so we're adding that to their budget to to be used for for future energy efficiency improvements and reinvest in that program the next item you have there forgive the abbreviation it's the public health emergency preparedness grant local match this is this is really a clerical item just to to budget truly for the transfer to general fund for the services provided and a transfer that local match into the grant so that we can fully maximize those grant dollars in a time where where every grant dollar counts so that's that item there 22 thousand dollars transferred into the grant twenty two thousand dollars paid from the grant in uh indirect costs for city services the third item there before you is a nursing program for uh an std clinic uh recall uh just a short while back uh we had we were here asking for permission to apply for these section 1115 waiver

[3:16:48] funds this is a new grant that that staff has gone after and and received authorization for this is in the planning stage to establish an std clinic this is the first year of a multi-year grant to get this small amount of 36 thousand dollars here in fiscal year 13 and continue reinvesting in that program for years to come what's multi-year i believe it's a four-year grant and so we're in uh year one which is a partial year uh in fiscal year 13 and it will continue we have a uh a commitment this is the one actually we just got through speaking and he did say five okay five years but the government hasn't implemented it quick enough so they're squeezing five years into about four okay that's where i was okay the next item here is pedestrian bridge uh recall this is part of the concho river project that we talked about at the last city council meeting uh that much discussion about that bridge just utilizing uh the property risk management fund fund balance as allowed by the replacing everything with wood yeah i'm sorry i know that's not right uh you'll see the next item there is for burial containers out at the cemetery they continue to have a positive sales experience as a result of of offering that option for interning remains and so we have sixteen thousand two hundred dollars we wanna add to the revenue budget and thus you allow uh cemetery to utilize those funds to continue their operations yes back to the bridge why are we only paying half um this is the river pedestrian correct the uh there's it's coming out two sources it's coming in the other fund is the fund for the river improvements correct i mean risk funds paying half and there's two parts that's why so coming out of two silos we'll do the 167. we'll spend 167. the other half that we're referring to that's part of the river project is already budgeted this 84 000 was not so that's why it's before you in this matter

[3:18:50] a small item here for community housing development this is one thousand three hundred three dollars for uh restricted for galilee construction for neighborhood revitalization restricted funds there just getting those revenues budgeted and expenses budgeted the last two items here i may speak about together avenue p street and drainage improvements and the 2013 million overlay projects if you'll recall in 2012 we had 1.7 million dollars set aside when we closed out fiscal year 12 these roll to fund balance should have been carried over in our massive routine item carryover that goes in november it slipped through the cracks so we're bringing it to you at this time this is not new dollars being allocated to the project this is just replenishing dollars that that should have been carried over and i might note that on the mill and overlay project there's a statement that that city manager approved a portion of that already there was philosophical discussion about utilizing budgeted dollars from storm water fund uh i apologize from budgeted funds uh to use this uh it of course requires city council approval and that's what's for you today okay questions on these items motion to approve second i have a motion and a second to approve is presented do i have further question or comment do i have public input on this side on these items okay call for this vote all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed okay outstanding then i'd like to move us forward to item number 25 there's nothing from our executive session today item number 26. these are announcements and consideration of future agenda items mr self uh the trees you want to go ahead and just clarify a little and mr valenzuela will take that down for you sure i i've just noticed that around some of our parks some of our bigger trees have started to die and i'd just like for carl to maybe check him i'm sure he probably knows why but i'd just like to report on why we do we'll get that to you okay

[3:20:53] okay other future agenda items um i would like for this council to discuss a chad burn to bryant connection to help the coliseum traffic flow okay it was a transportation item to to do something that relieves congestion during events or whatever giant items it really is big for the coliseum okay other future agenda items ms farmer yes too okay i would like an update of where we are with a reference to the rhetoria project on water i'm looking over you two guys over there if we're at a point i really would like an update at next meeting is that possible we'll check that was clinton was heading up that project so we'll discuss that with the group there and get back with you and then i have if i have an item i want an executive session should i just take that up with the city manager okay thank you yes ma'am mr silvas mr may i've got a couple of uh i've had some calls on the no our noise ordinance that seems to be running the muck okay you know some folks are just going the ordinance is running i'm not sure i'm teasing this yeah the big noises maybe the teeth of the ordinance but that if we could look into that and discuss what's there what's not there and then also i i've had a couple of calls and i think i shared it with i know i called jane flores i might have shared it with carl to remember but the edgewater project uh not project property it's it's pretty uh it's got a lot of tall weeds out there i needed to clean it up yes especially along the river between chadburn street and and the kid why building whatever tv station whatever that is okay other future agenda items or announcements okay

[3:22:55] next question to adjourn yeah we have a next meeting is june the june and so the one after that would probably be on the night uh 18th yes sir and then of course we have the special meeting on the 25th right and then we have the special meeting on the 25th one of the things i want council just to be aware of announcement um i will be here on the 4th i will be on a vacation on the 18th i will be here on the 25th for the for the special meeting to to take care of the election okay i do i do have one more okay i want to re-emphasize uh i got another text another a text from dwayne morrison on the what he talked about this morning about the help to oklahoma he said he had gotten a list of items that are being accepted in oklahoma their diapers their canned goods non-perishable foods snack items water and sports drinks so i want to just you know re reiterate what his idea of us is san angelo stepping up to the plate and maybe helping out somehow some way okay all right i have a motion for adjournment that i hear number 27. okay consideration of impossible action on matters thank you uh related to the july 2nd 2003 city council meeting to see if they want to have a meeting right before the fourth correct several staff members have asked i'll say so the tuesday on the second thursday would be on the fourth hell i think y'all you should meet i don't know why i second that i'll be here whatever y'all want to do obviously maybe i'll be here yeah for the holiday purposes fourth of july is a huge huge weekend fireworks in here the third the third will be a big deal here in town but it's a tuesday or so

[3:24:59] i'm talking about in council chambers no i understand that'd be great no problem i have to get a fire marshal you all want to do you want to look at your plans and then give her here's what i suggest to you that you uh i suggest you look at your plans and look at what what might happen and that would be able to tell ms ramirez at the at the next meeting what you want to do on july 2nd so okay yeah you would be going to the ninth probably and then then the 16th 9th and 16th or something like that if you want or like the second well okay we need to keep 16. either way you just adopted an annexation schedule and it has all these meetings as they are scheduled on it so you would have to have they would have to clean it up and bring it back if you move a meeting that's what you so is it does the ninth work for you it works for me i mean it would work it would work with a change to that schedule this is probably how that would work i hear the seconds okay let me make sure i understand i mean are we looking to change it because staff won't be here or council won't be here or no i just wanted to let you know that it was a holiday week and sometimes they do schedule um cancel it or keep the meeting so just wanted to give you a heads up that it was a holiday week it's up to you we had the the tuesday before thanksgiving this last year which i also yeah yeah we bring them up we bring them up we discuss them and then we move on and uh i don't you know again the second doesn't seem to be such a big deal since it's a tuesday and people that are going to take a long weekend or whatever still can i'm for leaving it i'll go back to what mr morrison used to say is that people get used to the first and the third and okay well i think is your recommendation i think the consensus seems to be let's just leave it okay uh miss farmer

[3:27:02] mr herzfeld made a motion for adjournment did i hear a second okay i have a motion in a second under the law you could just adjourn we don't have any right to do anything else but i like to call for emotion in case somebody has something else they want to say i don't shut them off before there's they can okay so motion in a second and so all those in favor please say aye all right any opposed all right we're adjourned

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=syEhNN2LSX4