San Angelo City Council 6-15-21

[0:00:00] everybody and welcome to the city council meeting of june 15 2021. it looks like everyone's on summer break the audience is small today so welcome to all of you who are attending the meeting we will start today with our chaplain prayer and pledges and today we are honored to have mr ralph dawkins our police department chaplain to offer us in prayer and in the pledges if you would please good morning everyone let us pray father thank you for the opportunity to invoke your word through prayer into this meeting i pray for those that are in authority over this city i pray and lift up the mayor her staff and assistants and city council members the city manager and every person and department that is instrumental in leading and directing our city i pray that you would bless them to work together in unity to tackle the agendas that are on today you keep your division may you keep division and hidden agendas from among them and i pray that you will give them godly wisdom direction and instructions on how to lead manage and operate in the city and all of its departments i pray that you would give these servant leaders knowledge wisdom and courage on how to deal with and tackle the issues of our community our families and facilities and businesses i ask your blessings upon these leaders over our community in which we live and pray just as your word declares in chronicles chapter 20 that when we don't know what to do our eyes are turned on you just as you told ezekiel the prophet that you would make him a watchman or a watchman over the city of over the israel i pray for the city leaders that they would be godly watchmen and watch women over our city lastly i pray for the police chief and the police force the sheriff's department and all those that continue to pray and protect and serve our city the fire department and all the first responders that you would bless our city with

[0:02:02] economic prosperity that you would draw in and attract to our city industry businesses and corporations that would produce jobs and revenue for our city to help it to grow and to prosper i commit all these things to you concerning our city and regardless of how things may look in a natural i confess that your word that you are well able to bring to pass everything that we have prayed for in the city council meeting today in jesus name amen and amen pledge of allegiance please i pledge allegiance honor the texas flag i pledge allegiance to texas uh this has to be a first we have no proclamations or or recognitions this morning so we'll immediately go into public comment issues or concerns not on the regular agenda may be raised by the public at this time citizens should speak from the podium address all comments to the dias begin by stating their name and address or single member district number and limit their remarks to less than three minutes do we have anyone here today who would like to come forward and offer public comment morning mountain mayor council city manager

[0:04:03] and other elected officials present my name is shirley spears i live in single member district 5. i'm here just to make comment again on the situation for the restrooms at martin luther king park we presented a petition and concern to the body in march to this date we have not had a status report we are asking for status we are aware that there were a few grants that were available for cities particularly for parks and recreation that expired in may and we understood when we were here in march that staff would be looking to see how we could fund we would also be searching for clarification on whether or not it was a community or neighborhood park and some resolution to assist the community and the residents across the city of san angelo that have signed and requested that restrooms be installed as we approach another juneteenth weekend this coming weekend we have a lot of plans a lot of activities but again the unfortunate situation at that park in such a celebration is that there are no restroom facilities for anyone of any age so we are here again just to remind the council that we did petition you all we did make the recommendation that you get back with us we understood that you would and we are asking for an update as soon as possible thank you thank you shirley any further public comment with none we will move on to our consent agenda i will ask each council member if there's an item they would like to pull off of consent agenda and i will start by larry lane ma'am lucy no ma'am harry tom noam with that me i have a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented move by lane second second by tommy all of those in favor say aye all right now an opposed

[0:06:04] motion consent agenda will be approved seven to zero we will now move into our regular agenda for the day and we'll start with comments regarding items on the regular agenda may be made by the public when each item is discussed as outlined above applicants proponents and appellants are accepted from the time limit above and must limit their remarks to less than five minutes we will start with item a consider adopting a customer service agreement as a supplement to the existing residential service application and commercial service application for water sewer and trash service andy euron good morning mayor council andy veselio assistant director of water utilities this morning i want to present to you a customer service agreement as part of improvement to our cross connection a control program uh this is required by tceq and is this a new requirement no ma'am it is an existing requirement but we are trying to improve what we already have in place we already have some things in our ordinances but to try and tighten up what we have locally to allow the staff to really protect human health that is our primary goal and there's two primary focuses to it backflow prevention and then lead-based materials and so with that i'd like to go ahead and start the presentation by tceq requirements here are some of the rules the first one is to adopt a plumbing ordinance regulations or customer service agreements so we have already as a city uh adopted a plumbing ordinance and that's through development services through our building permits section uh regulations would be in ordinance we do have some ordinances in place but we do need to strengthen them and that will be coming in the future and i'll talk about that a little bit later and today we're looking at customer

[0:08:06] service agreements these are required by tcq and definitely recommended from the more provisions we have in place the stronger our program can be okay let's stop right there on the csi we don't have csis right so when it says require customer service inspection we bring people from other cities into our city to do these inspections we have in the past over the past few months we've brought in folks from lubbock brownwood and a few other cities but currently we do have two csi licensed staff members one is myself i recently passed the exam and secondly we hired mike purcell from the engineering department and he recently passed his exam as well so we do have two staff that are currently licensed thank you the second item there is the customer service inspections which is going on site and reviewing for the lead materials and the backflow prevention needs and then where a baffle prevention device is necessary to recommend that and have that in place by the private users and then to have them tested annually for depending on the device some of them such as a double check they required to be tested on installation but not annually again there's different type of devices some don't have to be tested at all other than upon installation are there different regulations for residential versus commercial versus industrial versus just a regular business so it's more based on the hazards so they have health hazards and non-health hazards so a health hazard would require a higher level of backflow prevention so what i would say is typically on an industrial commercial customer those have a higher level of hazards depending on use of the water within their facilities so that's the basis of that so here's an example of a second elaine has a question so based off the hazards uh residential sprinkler system with the backflow yeah irrigation would

[0:10:08] be one of them whether it's commercial or residential with regarding to an irrigation system the primary function or the primary level depends on whether it has chemical injection or whether has on-site sewage like a septic tank in a drain field those are considered health hazards if it doesn't have those and is considered a non-health hazard by tceq everybody that would fall into that category would have an annual inspection if they have a health hazard that would require a reduced uh reduced pressure backflow assembly and so with those those tests are required annually but if it's a non-health system on a house with a septic system correct or chemical injection most irrigation systems aren't connected to the septic system that is correct that is good and most of them have separate meters from the residential correct as well has to be connected not just a house that has septic and a sprinkler system you're not going to require a inspection for a house that has a sprinkler system with aseptic sorry well if it has an irregular connected or anything but just a house that let's take butler farms if it has an irrigation system and they have onsite sewer at that point it becomes considered a health hazard by tceq so that would require a higher level of backflow prevention and so because of human waste if you will through the septic tank gets treated but it's still being used to be spread across the area through the the drain field it becomes by tcq standards a health hazard at that point that's a lot of people that could be a lot of people to have this requirement for the requirements already in place through tceq okay it's not a change no no it is not a change it is just us improving our program to promote the public health

[0:12:10] so there's nothing from tceq standards that's causing this it is just us working with tcq to improve what we have in place already my question resorts to how enforceable is that well they're not going to be out there on a daily basis checking on it so i mean that's an impossible task so and the reality is is that we've already had this in place already and so it's not something that's new this is ongoing and it's been ongoing so we're not asking someone to step it up this is yeah and in general our primary function and focus will be on the commercial industrial entities because those present the highest hazards right residential we won't be looking for i mean if they have a backflow device that requires annual inspection that is through what's called our vpo system which back which traces our backflow devices and the testing requirements and so they will be sent a letter which they are currently every year as a reminder to have those devices tested but we're not going to be primarily focused on residential entities as we do these csis they still will receive the notifications so it's a heads-up notification yes if they have that device that's already tested for residential we'll primarily be focused on complaint based okay continue so the three uh primary emphases as part of the customer service agreement is number one right of entry which basically is an agreement signed by the customer saying that city staff have their approval if you will to enter their premises and do these inspections one thing i do want to point out as what's called the water purveyor by tcq we as a city are required to have proper backflow or to enforce proper backflow prevention not just to our meter but all the way through their facility so as we do these csis and we're looking through these industries as commercial entities it's our responsibility to make sure the

[0:14:11] furthest tap in that business is safe for public consumption and as a tcq requirement that's been this is not new this is correct always been there yes ma'am the second one is a lead ban and these these are handed down from epa through tceq and it's just making sure there's not a high level of lead in the pipe and the solder things like that in the plumbing systems while lead has serious consequences on human health at high levels over an extended period of time and then the last item is done one second harry has a question so from my perspective i guess my question is this we've done this before right so the customers really know that somebody from the city has the right to come in and take a look at this the lead ban has always been there what we're trying to do is strengthen the enforcement is that is that my understanding you're exactly correct okay and we as staff are taking a heightened emphasis to promote this program i think one of the key things that we're doing today is going back to the public and making sure they understand what we have done what we're going to do and what we're going to continue to do most of this has been in existence already but we've not i know we haven't talked about this as a council for over four years and i don't know how many years before that so because of the contamination issue that happened in february it's timely that we update at a city council meeting what is in place how we how we manage it and how we're going to manage it so there isn't so much newness here it's really this is communication about what exists and what will continue to be a policy yes ma'am you're exactly correct and in addition we will be uh completing more and more csis part of the focus that we want to do is hiring staff we've already hired mike purcell as i mentioned before i'm csi certified

[0:16:13] as well so we're trying to get out to these businesses industries probably annually once we are staffed appropriately just to do a double check to make sure uh the one thing and we've we've already done and completed a few of these uh dozens of these actually and in doing so as we're trying to educate these customers we're explaining to them that we're not saying that you will do this but there is a potential for people doing uh plumbing outside of a getting a plumbing permit and those are the type of things that we can only detect by being on site and by being on site and potentially protecting them and protecting their employees as well and their customers who may try and use a restroom or drink out of a faucet there so that's our purpose here okay continue and then we we just discussed early enforcement component so here is a picture of one of the inspection forms so the csi inspections are required for new construction for existing services where there's a change or an addition of materials both of these items are typically picked up by city plumbing inspectors when they do their plumbing inspection what we're trying to focus on now and to add a little more emphasis is a third one a reason to believe a cross connection or potential cross connection exists and that's what i mentioned before about us trying uh our goal is annually to go to different commercial industries and just do a walk through and complete one of these inspections and talking with different cities a lot of them do manually some of them do every six months some of them do quarterly depending on the city so it's just a refresher for us to continue to go through there to help them help their customers and help their employees we have not had in the past employees who have the csi certification so the one thing we have done is to get two individuals staff members who are qualified to be csis and that's a new addition so we don't so we would generally say we wouldn't need to be the use of csis from other communities we're going to have our

[0:18:17] own trained and ready to do the inspections yes that is correct in fact on this next slide the by tcq regulations there are three people or three types of people that are licensed or able to complete these one is a licensed plumbing inspector so as i mentioned our licensed plumbing inspectors will complete these csis during new construction or additions the third one at the bottom is a licensed plumber with a water supply protection specialist we don't have any of those on staff but the first bullet point is what we were just talking about there mayor and that is a licensed customer service inspector and so that's the we'll call the the the new item to this program these new inspections before i ask that everyone be acknowledged before they speak larry would you like to speak yes ma'am thank you uh these inspections for new uh construction is that both residential and commercial yes that would be residential and commercial and typically in working with building permits it would be done at the same time as the plumbing inspection so it kind of go hand in hand it would be these customer service inspections that would be kind of outside of those building permits component answer your question sir sir okay and so just looking overall at a big picture of our cross connection control program uh we're here today talking about the customer service agreement we are currently working on trying to strengthen our ordinance as well we're in the draft phase right now um and so we'll be bringing that back to council in the coming months that don't have a time frame at this point uh the one thing i do want council to know is that we have already engaged in development task force we attended their meeting and presented to them and we'll continue to do so to get the feedback from the development community as we've mary mentioned the contamination as we've been working on these csis and trying to strengthen our program we've talked to multiple plumbers multiple

[0:20:18] business owners managers of businesses so on and so forth so we're already trying to educate the public as it is as we complete these inspections but we feel that going through the development task force is really beneficial as we bring it to council has there been any specific issues that have been brought forward in the development task force meetings uh no ma'am when we talked to them in may it was more of questions and clarifications and and uh some support by the uh by the the development community yes harry question andy uh we did backflow when i worked for goodyear on you know just on water fountains i mean it was a yearly thing we had to do so our two csi's in in the city of san angelo enough to take care of inspecting every business and all of those backflow systems that are that are out there or are we looking at trying to educate certify some additional ones in order for that program to be as stout as it can be and the citizens are ensured that we're that they're protected you're exactly correct two is a start two is where we're at now and that was a that's a big increase zero to i don't want that increase percentages but it's big yeah so two two is a start to get us going to get us really engaged at this point but yes the plan is to add more staff and to have a separate division within the water utilities department focused primarily on the cross connection control program allison did you want to come forward and offer comment as y'all oh allison street b director of water utilities as you all are aware we're in the about to begin the budget process and as a part of that budget process is when you put in the personnel request

[0:22:20] and so as a part of that process we put in for that to have a total of five employees for that division we're calling it the water protection crew and so that would include five csis that would be able to cover all of san angelo for these inspections because two i don't know what we haven't calculated how many facilities they could see in that time but as andy being the assistant director he is not solely dedicated to customer service inspections but could help um when times arise but really we are asking for five people as a part of that crew so that we can enhance that program enforce that program and make sure that we're doing all that we need to regulatory wise zero to five is a really big increase yes ma'am and we functioned with zero for how many years ever forever so we will consider it are there any additional questions any questions tommy just a clarification andy i think i heard you say uh earlier that folks have already that this would be applicable to have been receiving notification annually of these requirements so they're not they're the folks residential commercial industrial they have already been saying you need to be aware of this so anything we're going to do is not going to be brand new to some people is that correct well no let me clarify on that with regard to the annual notifications those are for those that have existing backflow devices for health hazards that require annual testing so businesses commercial entities have not been having these customer service inspections on an annual basis so it's specifically for those devices that have had the annual

[0:24:23] letter sent out to have their devices tested so the improvement that we're looking at is by getting eyes on our facility if we see a location that has either a non-health hazard or a health hazard but a potential for contamination or pollutants that we can then at that point say you need to install a backflow device and i think the other thing for council is when we talk about backflow devices it can it can it has a wide variety of what a backflow device is it can be as simple as an air gap meaning your pipe stops here and where it enters is here that's considered an air gap there is no mechanical device and there are a number of different type of mechanical devices from what's called an rpg reduced pressure zone backflow assembly which is probably the most robust type of mechanical device for health hazards all the way to a hose bib vacuum breaker which you screw onto your hose bib before you attach the hose to it and as i have this platform now i'd recommend to anybody listening in the city that if you have a hose bib and you don't have a hose bit vacuum breaker please install one at this point because one of the most common types of contamination comes from our hoses from garden hoses if you've ever seen a hose where somebody connects one of those chemical sprayers to it if the line breaks happens within a proximity it can create a back siphonage and it can bring some of them chemicals either into the water system or more importantly or a lot of times more importantly into plumbing systems so if i if i'm at my house with one of the sprayers on there and something happens in the water assist or my plumbing it can suck some of them chemical chemicals back in to my plumbing in fact as part of these training courses we've heard numerous stories and read numerous stories of contamination events some of them from simple garden hoses there's been some other you know mortuaries and things like that where it's more severe type of circumstances but that is the most simple thing that any resident of city st angel can do to help prevent and protect the water system

[0:26:24] and themselves so will there be anything new and i i hope i'm asking on behalf of the council this question most of us would probably be receiving calls from resident residential customers not commercial or industrial is there anything that's going to be new in this program that folks that could have the potential issues are going to start receiving that they haven't so that we're aware if they call us and say i got this from the city what in the world is it that we can walk through that with them so is there something new that residential customers that might have the potential for an issue be receiving from a residential standpoint that is not our focus other than new construction or if they get a building uh you know plumbing permit okay so from a residential standpoint unless there's a complaint being issued um then it's very unlikely that um you know that that type of circumstance a csi will be coming to their door the other thing too is initially when we had a contamination event you know we've we canvassed i think approximately 80 different facilities up in one specific part of the city and that's where our focus was and so we were very quick on getting on it we are now implementing a policy where we are calling these entities in advance to schedule an appointment to go back and visit them or to visit them and now we're in a process of some of those in that we'll call it the northern area around bell street we're going back and completing a second csi inspection at this time as well lucy yes andy i was going to before you said that i was going to ask you when they did the csis because of the pauline contamination did you find a lot of businesses or industries industrial areas that might have been non-compliant with we had approximately different 80 different businesses that we visited

[0:28:27] i believe i'm going to say about mid 50s so approximately 55 different businesses receive letters of deficiencies i'm going to say 35 of them approximately all they needed to install were host bid vacuum breakers on their hose bibs 20 up so approximately uh 20 of them plus or minus requires some sort of a mechanical backflow device above a um you know hospital vacuum breaker so yeah there were some deficiencies that were noted and and um i'll be honest with you a lot of those folks that we visited with were definitely very uh accommodating to us and we're certainly willing to work with us i think the question is because of the paul in issue we had to do these inspections but why weren't inspections done prior to contamination to have seen some of this a year ago two years ago six months before the contamination and that's a very good question ma'am the only thing i can answer to that right now is we can't go back and fix the past we can only take a look at the past review it analyze it and develop a program moving forward to reduce the potential for that to happen again thank you any other questions from council before we move forward yes tom tell me if somebody's doing commercial construction right now have they been notified i mean i would hate for this to slow up a permit process or a construction process so there's lots of commercial development going on right now are those people in the loop on being compliant with this that's a great question so i mentioned before about development task force we've had some cases where we've been working with engineering building permits to try and spread the word in fact i'm going to say there's probably been probably three to five different new either permits or plaques coming through where we've been engaged from water utility standpoint with regard to our csis of what type of backflow device do we

[0:30:29] need in this case so by spreading the word internally with staff we have been able to get their attention to help on the development side as well what i'm hoping for if somebody's just opened their doors planting open the doors they're non-compliant we use some common sense and some patients and working around their schedule going forward because i would hate this to come as a surprise and hit somebody's operational hours but other than that i'm good thanks andy well and that's a great point we don't want to create any surprises but at the same point we're being you know for anything that's existing facility we're being regulated by tcq and there's a helm human health component to it as well so there is some very significant consequences to not um following through as much as we can and our you know our intentions are not to create a burden on anybody but it is purely to protect our water system and to protect human health protect our citizens yes any further questions right now okay continue that is the end of my presentation so if there's any additional questions or any further discussions on the customer service agreement anything further yes ma'am yes go ahead larry are you telling me that any time a person pulls a plumbing permit they're going to have to go through this that is correct for new construction or for in addition to their existing facility john did you have comments for new construction this is already in place our plumbing inspectors already inspect um and it's as part of the normal uh review process um so again that's already being done for new construction i think what andy's talking about is other situations but yeah we're already doing that okay so do we need a motion to adopt this customer service agreement so do i have a motion on the floor harry's made the motion a second by lucy any public comment good morning mayor council anna bartosz

[0:32:42] single member district one um i i'm really concerned i i have a home with a septic tank we have an irrigation system um first of all this seems to be in response to our water situation back in february when we had whatever in the water the culprit who created that has never been identified publicly so now i think we're doing a city-wide broadscape so that means with my septic system i'm going to have people come over to the house and check the water which is i mean that's what y'all said anybody with a septic no we were asking about the septic system so it does not mean that all of a sudden we're going to send out all these people to go house to house and inspect our focus is still going to be on in commercial and industrial not residential okay and also in a from what somebody said about homes spraying whatever you've got fruit trees or spraying pecan trees you're spraying that's going to involve anybody with or without a septic because people in the city without septic spray their vegetation around their house so that's going to involve the entire city it is i mean but again we're not changing the policy on residential i mean this is these policies have been in place for how long no we have well water we can drink the well water when it's not so salty it's really salty so probably kill anything that gets in there but probably anyway become resistance after a while they adapt my background is micro and i underst i know what

[0:34:43] organisms like salt and which ones don't and most things cannot really adapt to salt but anyway thank you thank you for the public comment with none we have a motion in a second we've had public comment we'll take a vote all in favor say aye aye none opposed motion passes 7-0 item b discussion and update on chapter 3 animal control article 3.10 free roaming community cats of the city's code of ordinances and morgan euron good morning mayor council we were asked to come and speak about the community cat ordinance and all that goes into it and what our practices are regarding community cats and so i do have some talking points but we can certainly dialogue on you know which ones you all would like to spend more time on i did just want to from a broad stroke we do a cat intake for san angelo residents you can bring in for no charge if you want it picked up there is the fee of 25 if you've been caring for the animal for a prescribed amount of time you may rehome that through support services that's usually an appointment with our rescue partner contra valley right there so obviously we're talking about feral cats a lot so if someone's trying to protect the area by picking up a feral cat why does someone who picks one up off of their backyard who they don't own or whatever have to pay a fee that is defined in the ordinance for anything to be picked up that's not top five for rabies or wildlife that it is a 25 pickup fee and that

[0:36:46] could be possums cats deceased animal remains that that pickup fee includes it's pretty broad and i think my big issue is it's one thing if it's a skunk it's a possum it's a whatever but feral cats are becoming a bigger and bigger part problem in the community and no one's going to spend any time worrying about it if in fact picking up a cat a feral cat is going to have a fee attached to it i think part of it is because of the draw on staff time i think in the past when there wasn't a fee there would be sometimes one animal services officer that their entire shift was picking up cats and so part of it was to redirect staff to priority services like bike calls cruelty cases those that are top five for rabies so i believe that was part of the conversation as well bring the cat in is there a fee no as long as they've not been feeding and caring for it for a prescribed amount of time so how do you determine that the ordinance defines it as three businesses or three dollars say no i haven't fed it uh yes i was going to ask you morgan my the reason that i had asked for this uh update was because i have constituents that are saying that they have a cat problem i don't know if they're feral cats or just cats that have come from somewhere else but they are seeking shelter under their home the uh the person has allergies she cannot round them up or trap them or anything and of course they're not going to pay 25 to have them removed from their property so what kind of solution would you come up with for that situation sure we can skip to the end if you like i did go through what all defined in the ordinance what's required by each of the groups what our services and practices have been in the past

[0:38:48] what services should be performed to appropriately manage a cat population in a community which we have cat problem in the community sure so so would you like to go through the um recommendations about what would be involved to manage that yes sorry i was trying to answer your question first which is at the which is further along so we did so the ordinance does provide for the animal shelter advisory committee to set policy related to community cats before 2018 community cats that were not ear notched were euthanized and that is described in as catch and kill in 2018 we launched a shelter neuter return which prevents the vacuum effect of new cats coming in and the population being unstabilized and booming and growing we did that for not quite three years late 2018 all of 2019 and most of 2020 in 2020 the committee had to consider returning to field unaltered cats because the funding for shelter neuter return was not continued uh or available where did that funding go and who provided it in 2018 we launched shelter new to return with some salary savings out of the existing animal services budget we had twenty thousand dollars that we expended on almost one thousand cats that were spay neutered and returned to field in 2020 due to coronavirus salary savings were frozen and of course a funding request was submitted through annual budget but it was something that couldn't be considered at that time to be continued so in october 2020 the previous practice of euthanizing cats was no longer conducive to the no kill initiative and so for a very short time period less than three months we did consider returning to field unaltered cats what's with saving cats right now

[0:40:51] is our rescue partner concho valley paws is pulling all of our community cats and spay neutering them through their resources they've taken over that responsibility so it's no longer in your responsibility well to the extent that they have resources to offer they will continue to offer that there's no long-term solution to that does any community have a long-term solution it's an annual investment in uh shelter-neuter return which all cats coming in would be spay neutered and return to their area to prevent the vacuum effect because as i mentioned catch and kill in the past hasn't worked it's something that animal control and municipalities have been doing for decades when you remove cats from the area and don't return them it creates a vacuum cats from outside move in if they fill that empty territory it's counterproductive that population rebounds to be even more than it was previously and i think that that's what we're experiencing right now in san angelo is decades of catch and kill but trap neuter return is effective because there's no more litters the population stabilizes and i think the main concern that i've gotten from several council members is the nuisance that comes with community cats and tnr does stop the stress in nuisance it reduces mating behaviors spraying yowling fighting those are money the complaints that we're getting from citizens saying you know there's this colony there's all this nuisance going on and so tnr would stop that and so i think that there's a primary concern the ordinance is not real clear on how they define a nuisance but i think we could all agree that certain things are nuisances for example spraying defecating in flower beds going under homes for property owners who are not the ones feeding it and not the ones responsible and so although that should be reported to the sponsoring organization in the ordinance and then the colony caregivers given 30 days to resolve i think that one thing that the council could consider today is investing in an allocation for those

[0:42:54] nuisance colonies let us develop something to go back to them and identify those colonies which are nuisances so i i'm sure that any one of you could give me addresses today as could i of folks that are calling in saying you know this colony is out of control or this colony is a nuisance um and so if we did take those colonies that are reaching a level of um of a nuisance that we could allocate some money for spay neuter in return of those so that we could control those behaviors we could control um the undesirable behavior and we would report back to counsel any of the the progress for those nuisance um colonies specifically lucy go ahead morgan when was the last time that y'all spayed or neutered any cats in the at the altima uh the animal shelter um we we don't spay neuter at the animal shelter okay well i thought you had a budget and i thought that you all used it this way and neutered the cats out there so in 2018 with our salary savings we were spay neutering through private vet clinics so we would take trapped cats that had been brought in and a community cat is any unknown cat that's thriving outside so it could be wild it could be tame but if they pass a 30-point check inspection they are considered for spay neuter and return to their area and so for point inspection what is that i'm just going to i've got to stop it right there what's a 30-pointed inspection on a cat well i it is going to say this but that sounds like a lot to pass it's generally are they at a healthy weight and thriving in their natural environment somebody's gonna stir it i might as well be the one so my issue here morgan it's sometimes it in the cat sometimes

[0:44:58] you have a human that's more of the nuisance with these cat colonies anybody else they won't let you come on they've got a house i've got a couple in my district and me and you've emailed over it and the lady won't let anybody come on the property i mean i won't and there's a person that won't let you come in and who doesn't try to control that population and i've got a constituent with a beautiful house right over here which apparently is inviting for all the cats to come over and use the lawn but i mean how do we address something like that i mean that's the one where i get the phone call is the constituent's just like you know what i'm watching hop in and out of that house over there and it's ten different cats going in and out the window you know in fact they come over here and he traps them and they're over there and he catches them then that we want to charge him 30 bucks to get rid of the darn thing i think that's one thing that could be considered in the 5 000 allocation is animal services officer staff time to retrieve those animals a waiver of certain fees to specifically uh work those nuisance colonies down to an appropriate level and and just to speak to there there are certain requirements set forth in the ordinance colony caregivers are required to spay neuter and vaccinate those animals as as well as a number of others it sounds great to say they're required to do it but who's checking yes ma'am and it is a requirement to report it to the sponsoring organization and we're finding that that also is uh not working and so it just can i mean it's so i mean it's not a policy that i would consider very effective at all it's great on paper but in reality it's not effective and it will never be effective yes lucy and so tell me they trap the cat they bring them to the animal shelter what do you do with them from that point on if it's a community cat that's not a nuisance we would spay neuter it and return it to the area to prevent the colony from growing in ham right now concho valley paws is doing that so you take it to concho valley to

[0:47:01] spade and neuter because you said they don't do it at the animal shelter correct poncho valley paws is pulling all of our community cats right now and how much does it cost despite a neutral cat i don't know what they're spending but we were spending um forty five dollars for a neuter sixty-five dollars for a spay plus the rabies vaccine um price that vets pay [Music] we were that the prices i'm quoting or what we were paying through 2018 to 2020 through a private vet clinic okay tommy did you have a question maybe the wisest course here would to seriously consider allocating morgan some funds and let them really focus on these cat colonies that they know apparently they know where they are maybe even know the individuals involved and see if we can't make some progress in that regard because you know we're kind of having a circular conversation here so maybe we need to give morgan some tools to to address the issue that's my thought harry my concern is very similar to what councils already say i mean i can sit on my front porch in the afternoon and watch cat after cat after cat going up and down the street and i suspect that somebody is feeding those cats but they're not tagged i mean so i i i suspect that they're probably neighborhood cats that somebody basically has inadvertently adopted and i tell constituents all the time when i get a phone call if you're feeding them they're your cat you've got to take care of them you've got to find out what you're going to do with them i think the point i'm trying to get here is we know that the animal shelter typically is not handling these community cats today that's done by other organizations how many have we made any progress i guess in the last three or four years how many of those cats are out there

[0:49:03] that we know of is that population truly down compared to what it was two years ago you say 27 i still see a lot of cats and i really don't i i don't know that the programs really really is as robust as i would like to see it so to tommy's point maybe we need to give you some more tools the question mark is how much money are you going to throw at it and throw away by doing that because it's not changing the problem and so i think number one we need to make sure we have a pretty big aggressive public information communication going out there i haven't heard anything from the city in a recent i don't know four years about trying to communicate to the public and bringing a lot more awareness to the situation we need to start with communicating the issue because we can we don't have enough money to throw at this to make a difference we just don't not in this huge big city you might make a difference in one little tiny area it's not gonna change and we don't have the money to spend i mean five thousand dollars is not even going to make a dent in this problem it just isn't it might start but it's not lucy morgan i just wanted to ask you if people wanted to trap these cats where are they supposed to get the traps from at the local store [Laughter] you know that's not gonna happen everybody wants hey i need your help and i need it now i think for these nuisance um ones that that have come to a head today that part of the five thousand dollars could be for the purchase and provision of traps for the city to run a tnr program specifically for those nuisance colonies it's not meant to serve city-wide it's meant to serve these that are making it to y'all's level quite frankly so if you if you use some of this money for traps then the citizen could actually call get a trap

[0:51:06] trap the cat bring the cat back and give you the track back or how would you keep up with that i mean if that's the council's direction yes ma'am well i was just wondering about this constituent that you know is having this problem on her property i don't know if she's feeding them i don't know any about that all it is is that her complaint is that she can't even go out there because she's allergic to her so i was just like what do we do when we have that problem within the city well a lot of these cats survive without someone feeding them they know how to catch rats and mice and other things so it does not mean that someone's always feeding them they're pretty adapted getting and listen a lot of dumpsters have a lot of food in them and so they're going to survive regardless of whether someone feeds them or not but i i think you know it's great to say we're going to throw some money at it i don't want to throw money at it if i don't have a program that i think is going to make a difference period and that is why i included the component of reporting back to y'all do you think 5000 will make a difference that we can significantly judge and measure morgan i think for these nuisance colonies it could make a tremendous difference colonies do you think you have identified half a dozen today that i could identify the location or that y'all could provide the location some i've just heard of but i don't i don't know the location but if we could tackle half a dozen colonies get them really healthy and spay neutered i think that that could provide some relief to citizens in need eight hundred dollars a community i mean a colony might if we average out the five thousand i might get you there because i i know i know of one in my district all right i know there's six of us here but i i think you have the most stressful job in the city maybe next to the water department in

[0:53:08] february but anyway long story short the animal shelter is a huge budget very little return no income i mean it's less than probably six seven percent income on it but these are things that are very very visible in the public eye and i would i'd be willing to give this a try once i will only support that if we have a public information strategy i won't do it and won't support it if we don't have something going out there and re-educating the public about the problem what to do how to do it etcetera because then we're just throwing money at it nothing changes we have to have public information strategy on this it won't work otherwise it might not work anyway but with that one we're only talking about community cats sorry mayor yes yes harry go ahead only talk about community cats you're not talking about the neighborhood cats that don't belong to anybody that probably are not spayed and neutered those cats are every bit as much of the problem as community cats are so the education that the mayor is talking about really needs to go city-wide and not specifically just for these colonies that we already know are out there there's too many of them cats roaming around in the neighborhood that are probably not vaccinated almost guaranteed that they're not spayed and neutered they probably do control the mice and rat problems so there is something out there to say you know there is a benefit in some way on that it's not enough to make people happy but but there is a reason to believe that they do control some of the rodents in our communities but i i have no problem uh i'm not sure where we're going to get the 5 000. so we have to have tina would you uh daniel where do we get 5 000. we have had savings i mean she mentioned a while ago morgan mentioned a while ago the iron freeze and the monies that actually were built up from that so we'll take care of that part of it you know we just

[0:55:10] need your support with what's being presented at this point so there's support if i have a program if i have a public information strategy that goes with it we'll make sure that happens especially the communication yes larry i'm curious if there's a code compliance factor that could be built into this too if a lady has 25 cats in her house well it presents a health problem on top of everything else code compliance is an issue but we also have morgan how many people do you have who react and follow up and go to houses etc for animal services officers there you go we have four doing that already all right so we're going to do public information strategy i want to have an update on that at the next meeting and make sure we're aggressive at communicating use every available opportunity to talk to the public about it and make sure they're well aware of the problem and most as we always say the reason we have an animal shelter is because we have people people create the problem it's only with people will the problem start stop cats don't make themselves a problem people help make the problem happen otherwise we wouldn't have an animal shelter okay is council okay with that move to approve as presented okay do we need a do we need a motion so tom has made a motion do i have a second second lucy will have a second any public comment with none we'll take a vote all in favor say aye aye opposed motion passes 7-0 thank you item c discussion and guidance for amending chapter 5 business and commerce article 5.02 alcoholic beverages regulations section 5.02.05 cell possession or consumption and texas

[0:57:15] bank sports complex and brent you are on good morning mayor daniel city council i messed that up we can do that 30-point inspection on tom while we're waiting opposite i think we'll have a good guy 30-point inspection i have got a great story at some point for you okay thank you green green all right thank you sorry about that okay yes green oh welcome brent we'll get up and stretch now too okay so we're looking for guidance on texas bank sports complex concerning the alcohol beverage regulations that are out there currently the ordinance does not allow for alcohol to be taken into the complex meaning inside the fenced and gate area which let me try this again there we go so basically all of the circular quadrants there's a fence right there a circular kind of over here but any of the outside areas to include the grassy area over here this parking lot the grass area here this entire parking lot here or this parking lot up here which is where the rvs park they are allowed to bring in alcohol according according to the current ordinance but isn't that kind of confusing to begin with because how do you know where and who and what and whatever if some of it is and some of it isn't who can manage that that's what they'll get into here in a

[0:59:18] minute the reason the original ordinance was like that is because that area what this will hopefully correct today for this complex and the park is located right there actually um so yes you are allowed to take it into the park you currently can have it into the in the parking lot area you cannot bring it into the fenced in area which we have covered um what we kind of come up with three suggestions um possible options that we can look at number one is leave it as it is and allow alcohol in the parking lot but not allow it inside the park they're the fenced in area of the texas bank sports complex number two the entire complex go no alcohol to include the parking lot to park except for a special event with contracted concessionaire which sometimes we do and number three is there's an area where alcohol may be consumed such as the park area that we circled just a minute ago but include the parking lot as part of the ordinance which is like number two you like number two entire complex just so you know currently the policy is there's there's no alcohol in the complex for youth events not an option for adult events it is allowed so long as the city concessionaire serves the alcohol so uh san angelo host is the and so this allows that to continue to happen so long as san angelo host is the server yeah because when you start you can you can't you will you won't who's there to monitor it because the issue is having an ordinance in place where you have the ability to monitor and when you have options of yes or no you can you can't that little area has that larry no no one can we can't we don't have enough staff to monitor that situation so the only way you can do it is yes or no no just in between clarify with counsel

[1:01:20] i'm assuming if we go with number two what you're saying is basically from bell street to the end of the ball field so that entire park area from bell street throughout the complex is what you're considering number two what happens with the rvs because that becomes the next comp com complexity to this parking lot where the rv's parker is considered part of the complex parking lot so how do you manage that well it goes back to the whole thing revolves around if at this point the parking lot would be considered within the complex we don't have enough staff to manage that but if a incident is arising and you have this rule in place or they notice something then pd does now have the ability to enforce so pd could be called and they have the ability to force in the parking lot versus now they don't because there's no rule about it i'm going to stop right here and see if there's any questions or comments from council at this point in the presentation okay so then continue brent let's just say we're looking for that's it yes ma'am we're looking for guidance on which presentation good job bro three slide rule okay so in my mind it has to be number two because when you have some areas yes and some areas know it's too hard to know when you walk up when you step over the magic yellow line so for me it's no alcohol including except for contracted concessionaire that makes sense lucy so what you're saying is okay for the kids events there was no alcohol whatsoever but for the adults there was so now what are we saying that absolutely no for the adults also you're saying you can have you can buy it at the concessions yes if they do that they're required to have insurance and police presence those kind of things for an adult event if they contract but they're saying you can't bring it and leave it in your car and go back out to the parking lot and drink and then walk

[1:03:23] back into the complex that's not allowed anymore because at some point i'm assuming that we have events where it's both adult and children some of the children come and watch the adults but if it's a children event like a youth baseball tournament for example then we would not allow any alcohol to be sold or whatever does council have any issues against using number two as our tom what do you think's the best one your park it's kind of a rough one in my opinion because it's going to be even a major disaster to enforce it in the parking lot it's a major disaster to enforce it inside the fenced-in area right now as the mayor said we don't have enough staff to be everywhere at every time i mean we've you know when i get phone calls i go out there and tell them get rid of it right now you know give them a warning if they don't then we've switched in the past to hey you everybody every player on your team that's an out that we could catch you with on the field so we we've done that but you know that doesn't help the sport that doesn't help anything so it gets rid of the alcohol but it also makes a lot of upset people so the parking lot you know i think it's i would also like to see something maybe brought up about the the rvs for when we do have tournaments i know if i'm staying in my rv then i would like to have something in my rv i don't know that's just yes but you can have a policy where you may have it in the rv but you can't take it outside the rv onto the fields or onto the ballpark but i think if we do that it gets it will we could get to where the people could go in their car it's still the parking lot and so you'd have a very another exception i think in this case it's either in the parking lot or not here's what we do know we cannot have another episode of what happened several weeks ago and with no ability to control or manage it because we don't have an ordinance that allows for control and management we have to have an ordinance that allows for control and management of it because in two weeks if

[1:05:27] we have another gun incident out there it you know it will be a problem we have to have an ordinance that helps control it and help and gives us the opportunity to use enforcement part of this is brett's sale be who is running the the event to help us enforce that so right now if he has a rental we have one staff member out there it depends on how many clubs how many fields they're using so not a lot of staff if if daniel is running a tournament it has so they're running it we don't have a ton of staff out there so those renters have to help us enforce that whoever's running the tournament i think number one just one second here i think once again i'm going to ask for some public information to help express what we're going to do in terms of managing it but we cannot open ourselves up to another situation that happened i think everyone that was there did a great job of managing controlling it and couldn't be more proud of how people responded to it but we got to have an ordinance that helps us control any possible future problem and we're crazy if we're not looking at what's happening in the news and do something about it harry yes clarification from my standpoint in other city venues this one for example we require police officers to be there if any alcohol is going to be involved do you do that at any of these tournaments we do if the concessionaire is selling it yes then the concessionaire has to has to be there and same same for this facility right here be willing to support number two then any further comments all right may i have a motion to approve number two oh oh just this is a direction only and what we ought to do uh first of all let's start some public information on this but then number two let's use

[1:07:30] this for the next you know today's june so through august and then you come back and report to us in terms of things that emerge problems that existed that weren't thought through when we put this in place but we ought to try to execute this implement this and see what happens with it and not does that work yes ma'am and mayor that'll work real well because i think brent is taken to his parks and recreation board a re-evaluation of all of our basically facilities and what the policies are around that so when he brings those recommendations he can bring this back at that time too for y'all to look at any issues that happen okay and meanwhile we'll get some information out through our public our communications department on our new or new options i think today's discussion was just for general guidance and in order to change the alcohol policy that does require two readings it's written in the ordinance so we do know it need action it's not on there for action today we have to bring it back in a formal ordinance change i'll bring back number two okay perfect meanwhile we'll start on the public and the communications department getting some messaging out there okay thank you very much item d first reading and public hearing on one an ordinance of z21-05 a rezoning from the single-family residential zoning district to the neighborhood commercial zoning district being .30 acres located at 2321 south bryant boulevard and 504 west avenue t two an ordinance for z21-06 a request for approval of a rezoning from the heavy commercial zoning district to the heavy manufacturing zoning district being 7.353 acres located at 4125 dan hanks lane and three an ordinance

[1:09:33] approving the abandonment of two thousand two hundred fifty square feet or a fifteen by one hundred and fifty feet alley on the south side of east 40 first street between oak lawn street and bowie and for an ordinance approving the abandonment of a two thousand two hundred fifty square feet or fifteen feet by one hundred fifty feet alley on the north side of east 44th street between oak lawn and bowie street thank you john james director of planning and development services the reason all four of these items are combined into one agenda item is that they were all recommended by staff they were all unanimously recommended by the planning commission and none of them had any opposition from the either the surrounding property owners or anyone for that matter and so as we've done a few times in the past we've combined those and it'll be an abbreviated presentation uh because there's basically no opposition and and no controversy surrounding any of these so this first one is a rezoning on south bryant it is for two properties the one property has been historically a bakery and small restaurant family owned it has been closed for a number of years now but the sun is now wishing to reopen the family bakery and possibly restaurant and so because it was non-conforming in a residential zone it requires this rezoning to a commercial district to allow that to continue again it is on south bryant it's designated in our comprehensive plan as neighborhood center which makes rezoning appropriate to a commercial you can see this area here is already commercial so it would just be adding those two properties to that existing commercial zone just a couple of pictures of this is the one property and then this is the adjacent property that has an old home on it that could be very likely demolished for parking or

[1:11:38] something like that it just made sense since there's commercial on the other side of it to rezone both properties as i mentioned the planning commission voted to approve it unanimously and the staff is recommending approval i'll stop there for any questions but my intention was to go through all four cases and you could make one motion on all four but if you have any questions on that any questions on this so far continue okay this next item is on dan hanks lane it is for rezoning from heavy commercial to heavy manufacturing it is for a chemical processing company you can see our future plan shows all of this as industrial so it's consistent with that but as you can see here some of the areas that pink color the heavy commercial but it's a mixture of heavy commercial and industrial zoning this would just take it to the heavy commercial which is what it would be required for the particular use that's proposed now you can see that company's existing location is in the in the general vicinity this would be a new location nearby and just a couple of pictures of the subject property itself which is a previously used but currently vacant property i won't read through all of these it's in your staff report and your background information but just many of the reasons why staff is supportive as well as the planning commission uh again the planning commission did unanimously recommend approval as did staff be happy to answer any questions questions from anyone on council there are no questions so do i have a motion for approval i'm sorry these are two alley abandonments you can see this one uh here near 41st street um just a picture of it this one is used a little bit and then our recommendation includes the three conditions again planning commission unanimous staff recommended the three conditions are

[1:13:40] that they replat their property to include the alley payment of the fee that's in the city ordinance or the resolution and then a recreation of a quick claim deed after the plat approval this one i'll note does not include any easements there are no utilities and so all the utility companies were fined completely abandoning the alley there are no questions on that one no i'll ask if there's any further questions and if not a motion for approval sorry one more one more hang on man this is very very similar um this is another alley uh this one actually is not used at all as an alley uh but there are some utilities in there there's a picture you can see it's it's a platted alley but not existent on the ground and so these are the same three conditions as the previous case but one additional condition because there is a sewer main through that alley the abandonment would include the requirement to maintain a sewer easement through that property when it's replated and with that that's all i had i'm not going to say it again [Laughter] i might need an environmental survey on the removal of that cactus there but other than that district 2 is good our constituents want that any other questions concerns by anybody then tom that's a motion i move to approve second and a second by tommy any public comment with none we'll take a vote all in favor say aye aye motion passes 7-0 we'll move on to item e first public hearing and introduction of an ordinance amending the budget for the fiscal year beginning october 1 2020 and ending september 30th 2021 for unplanned expenditures thank you mayor tina dierski director of finance i just have a budget amendment for you this morning only one budget amendment and it is uh to budget for the payment to jaxa that we discussed at the last city council meeting

[1:15:41] um the ancillary charges in the amount of about 723 thousand dollars and i'm waiting for the powerpoint just so you can see how that was out there been any further communication with various parties on this issue i have as i told you all in the last meeting i reached out to fema and tdem the texas department of emergency management to seek any recourse that they could offer any assistance that they could offer i have still remained in contact with our representative there and so far have not received an a definitive response from them and are we communicating with other cities to find out what they're doing as well to resolve this issue i know that for example city of lubbock is also reaching out to tdem and fema and fema is taking those requests on a case-by-case basis so there is a a marginal chance that we could receive some assistance but we won't know until they come down with a response there's got to be many more cities i'll follow up with the managers as well just to make sure to see what they're doing on their part but i know that there's a lot of cities that were affected by this as well so they have to be and i want to know what other cities are doing if some good maybe information from them in terms of what they're doing yes teresa there's also been a lot of conversation on my city attorney group and most people are paying some are having to take out bonds to do it um so it is an ongoing discussion looking for options both from the texas legislature as well as from fema yeah we just want you to stay persistent on this yes ma'am yes time that is you almost that's almost windfall profit gouging i mean for the time period and what it is it's but i think collectively we'll have to see a bunch of us as cities gather up to battle this but i'm all for it if we can go find it use every tool in a toolbox and in this case it's gathering all cities together and fighting the issue power in numbers all right go ahead so as we discussed um we'll be

[1:17:44] using marginal sales tax revenue from the current fiscal year to address the portion that has been allocated to the general fund um in the amount of 423 423 and the water and sewer funds those will that will come from their fund balances respectively um and these are being allocated based on meter usage and so that's why these amounts were charged to the water into the water reclamation funds so the com those three things added up equals the 728 000. yes ma'am should we receive any assistance or recourse we will put that money back to these funds proportionately in the way that we charge them i have a motion for to approve the budget amendment moved by tommy second by lucy any public comment with none we'll take a vote all in favor say aye 7-0 passes item f discussion and guidance of providing in-kind support for the all veterans council request for a proposed 10-year agreement with the city deway feast for the annual veterans day parade daniel euron so we didn't receive a request for assistance any kind of support um things such as setting up barriers by staff security by police officers now the request has been made in the past we've done it on a year by year basis this year um the request is a little bit different because they're asking for a 10-year consideration now we're comfortable moving forward at this point with a one year and i know that uh and now let theresa talk a little bit about this as well our concern is of course um we know that that city council changes the the c the uh the chief of police position as well next couple of years uh it may change or may not change depending on on what happens there but we don't commit to future councils to a long-term agreement with any one group at this point you know so that's one of our biggest concerns but we just wanted to get some direction from city council as as to what it is that y'all would like to see

[1:19:46] happen though so theresa wait a minute harry first yeah um as a veteran i i've supported this veterans day parade for a long time i appreciate the fact that the all veterans council gets ahead in the last couple years at least has gotten ahead of the curve and requesting this information long before this first saturday in in november i i understand 10 years is a long time and you've got issues out there with the police chief being possibly being another police chief being in there so can't make those decisions for those officers that are required but i would make a suggestion that we look at three years present police chief will be there for an additional three years and and make this a three-year agreement instead of having the all-veterans council have to come back to uh to the council every time do that this is the best run veterans day parade in the state it is recognized by not only senator perry but also senator cruz as as being something that is that they want to support so from my perspective i'd like to make it a multi-year three-year teresa yeah as daniel was saying the city charter does provide the police chief has the sole discretion over the officers and so as harry stated that we would not be able to extend beyond chief carter's term um which we were talking we think is actually two years based on when the election would happen that would be two more veterans days but if you're going to make an approval for more than one year then the maximum you could do was chief carter's term also you should consider the precedent this sets when we're approving these parades you know there are some speech issues that become related in these if other groups come that you don't necessarily approve of the message or approve of the group it's really hard to tell them no when you've said yes to others it does create a precedent that we would have to

[1:21:49] you know unite against i think this one particular parade that we sponsor this is a national holiday and so this is a little bit unique from other messages that are out there that are sometimes paraded through cities but that is another consideration you should keep in mind that's right my preference is always to put it on a case-by-case basis that being said we've done it over the past couple years and haven't created a problem with that i think this city has always been really well known for the support of its veterans i think we need to keep that messaging out there that we support our veterans that the military is important part of this city and our support of all things military is really important so knowing what the ordinance says i would say then let's do it for two years that's that lives within the regulations required by the election of our police chief and at least gets us two more years and then we'll deal with it as we have a new police chief does that work ordinances kind of get in the way sometimes don't they or city charges yes go ahead tom so it brings up you know the precedence we set moving forward because there's some other parades out there that you know in size and quantity and we'll you know i don't know how many we have but there are some out there that if we waive it for this one we're going to waive it for a lot of them well we waived it last year and we waived it the year before so i'm just it's a case-by-case basis i understand that though we'll have to learn to say no if it doesn't have the same we just have to say no but i think the military is something hugely important and we've always been that kind of a community as it relates to our veterans and i think we should continue that messaging all right with that harry has uh is going to revise his motion to be questioned to improve for two years is there a second second by lucy any public comment with none we'll take a vote all in favor

[1:23:52] say aye aye motion passes seven zero we'll now move into our closed session which there is none and so we'll move on to item eight follow-up in administrative issues there was no closed session so there's no a to consider and b is consideration of approving various board nominations the public art commission rail ruiz smd5 and elaine stribling smd6 both to first terms ending april 2023 do i have a motion a move by lane a second by second second and um any public comment with none we'll take a vote all in favor say aye money opposed none opposed and then item c announcements and consideration of future agenda items are there any with none we'll move into adjournment may have a motion for adjournment second any public comment third fourth and fifth all in favor say aye aye motion passes 7-0 meeting is adjourned officially at 9 58 a.m on the 15th of june 2021.

Captured 2026-07-26 · source: youtube.com/watch?v=tH1AbFMdCr8